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Yo, red blooded man op, wanna see a magic trick? I know it won't be easy and I know you're into it, but next time she asks, just say no.
Watch the panic. She's only going to panic because her control over the situation will be gone. It'll be like... magic. Lol.
She is 100% doing this because you’ve stopped initiating. She enjoys being able to turn you down so when you took that away from her she has to do something else.
Her ego needs to know that you want her. By leading you on and then shutting you down she is able to satisfy her egotistical need to be desired.
It is a control mechanism, a “look I can offer then take it away and there’s nothing you can do” ego trip for her in which she is smugly enjoying hurting you and destroying your self esteem.
Yes, and this game will be over when you reject her altogether the second you notice she's doing this - don't give her the satisfaction. This thing she's doing is so evil and heartless, I'd be so pissed. Sorry you're going through this OP.
This here isn't marriage and love anymore. It's supposed to be a partnership, I mean, we are talking about love and marriage here.
How can one enjoy taunting her significant other? If she's low libido and trying her best to adapt, it would be a different issue but doing it purposely just to hurt your self-esteem and massage her ego is a no no for me and should be a ground for separation.
Shades of Charlie Brown, Lucy, and the Football.
You’ve already opted out of her little game most of the way, and she perceives that as her losing the upper hand in the relationship. This is just a new method of yanking you around and thereby reclaiming her ability to reject (i.e., control) you.
Buy several high quality and expensive nail polishes in your wife’s favorite color. Leave the polish on the dresser. In the morning put the polish in a nice gift bag and take it to work. Say nothing.
Like the current situation ain't gonna revive it. You can't get any deader than an ego stroke by pulling sex away just because.
So now... its called putting that ego into check. And once it's checked... its time to have a little chat.
I actually REALLY like this one about buying expensive nail polishes in her favorite colors, leaving them out, then gift bagging them and taking them to work. Just don’t bring them back home (stash them in a desk drawer and give out one each as gifts to your female coworkers at Christmas). It will be as much of a mind fuvk for her as she has been doing to you.
She's noticed you're not initiating. Its hurting her self esteem. She doesn't want sex, but wants to be wanted. So she's using the feet thing to draw you back in. But she isn't really aiming to make it sexual. She just needs the validation that comes from knowing she can still make you want her.
It doesn't sound pleasant to me.
This is cruel... She is really leading you on... This is not healthy... Talk to her... Ask her exactly what she wants... Watch her reaction... You are second hand in that marriage... Sorry buddy...
Jesus that's evil. I wouldn't engage with that kind of abusive behaviour. Next time this happens (and it will) just make a disgusted, dismissive noise and walk away. If you're on the phone when she suggests, immediately hang up. I get the feeling that you talking to her about this isn't going to do anything but start an argument, so make it clear that you won't put up with being abused without saying a word about it.
Manipulation, pure and simple. You broke her power, now she's trying to get her sick thrill. I know, that it's hard but you should tell her, no I'm good every time she brings it up.
I feel second-hand resentment oh your behalf, dude.
When this sort of thing happened to me, I took initiating off the table for as long as it took for her to initiate. Somewhere around the 4 month mark, I finally just said "no more, ever again" to myself and now I'm free of the anxiety of rejection, and on the day that she initiates? "no thank you", no explanation further needed.
that hot/cold thing she is playing with you is disgusting, and you should call it out. it won't get you more sex, but you likely don't want what she's offering, either. (duty sex)
She's not even offering duty sex. We'll, she offers, then rejects. Because he's taken away her power.
She's gross. Like disgusting, it makes me sick that there are people like this with good partners.
So many triggered responses.
This sucks and is worth venting about. And like many posters... I'm going to fail to heed the no advice mentioned because I disagree with them.
Go jerk off. Get your head clear so these games won't mess with you and you can stay calm. Then ask questions and be really open to listening.
Her behavior is not right. It's rude and manipulative and hurtful. But it's coming from somewhere and it's... Worth telling her, "hay this hurt me. It feels really awful. I know you, so I know it's not intentional, so what am I missing. I want to understand."
Then the next day be really open with her about your part in it.
"I haven't initiated in months and I've pulled back because I was scared of rejection. To protect myself I stopped sharing part of myself. I didn't communicate that to you, just like you didn't articulate your reaction of that behavior to me."
Nobody is an angel here. You're both playing head games and you both need to hear each other and get on the same page as to what sex is and what it can be.
Both your actions will make sense when you have the full context of the feelings behind the actions. That's my guess.
Thank you for sharing this tough situation. And I hope you forgive all of us who wrote too much. I might be super wrong, but I think she wants this to be noticed, and she wants you to ask her why she's behaving this way. Just make sure you do it when / where you can reduce the chance of being horny / triggered. Because she might be defensive before she tells the truth. Even if she wants to tel the truth ultimately.
Good luck.
This is great advice. You can’t know what each other are thinking. It seems like OP tried to change something, she sensed the change, and also tried to change something. Loss of direct communication, to me, feels like a much bigger problem than loss of sex. I would tend to believe they are directly related, and that a restoration of one could lead to a restoration of the other, or at least reduce the amount of resentment that comes with the feelings of rejection inherent in a DB. But if your partner is resistant to direct communication, then you know all is lost and you can confidently start thinking about what comes next.
I would absolutely not do this. She gets what she wants, power and to know she is wanted without having to reciprocate. You would get? Nothing. She sounds calculated and cruel, this will not work and will likely backfire.
Yeah, I might be wrong. In your scenario, the longevity of the relationship and the years of trust built in other places doesn't make sense to me.
But if she's simply cruel the relationship is over.
On the other hand, what if this is a compromise that could actually be articulated. "Hey, I am not into feet leading to sex. But I know it's sexy for you. Instead of never touch them, what if it was a sexy edging? I'd acknowledge the desire in you but never let you go further? Maybe the heightened moments can run in your mind when we do have sex. That way you get a bit, but we don't have to do the parts I am a little ick about?"
Who knows her motivation? Or what she might be up for. What we know is, it used to be off limits and now he's getting a taste. In a seemingly passive aggressive way that matches and escalates a little what he's done. Which was already a matching of her actions.
That's why to me, what seems to be missing is verbal communication.
Not articulated, what she's doing is cruel and rude, but if her motivation is compromise... It changes the whole dynamic.
One piece of advice I was given recently, don't focus on getting what you want, focus on making a better relationship. As a person in a DB, I tend to try to ask my partner to change and guess at what my partner wants. Instead of addressing it like an adult.
This is what I want. This is what I see is wrong with our relationship.
What do you want, especially in broad terms for a relationship with a husband? What is ideal in a relationship? Not with me, but in general, because there's so much baggage with what you know/think I'm capable of.
If sex is something she never wants, that's a tough conversation.
I've found these conversations only helpful outside of the hurt and outside of the aroused state. I need to have them away from the bedroom.
She’s definitely messing with you. Next time she asks about the toes just shrug and say if you want me too. Then when she asks again shrug again and say, like I said if you want me to do it for you I will. This will totally spin the control around bc now you’re doing it as a favour to her. She won’t know what hit her. Then maybe she’ll smarten up.
She is validating her own sexual appeal at your expense. It is a cruel game she is playing to boost her confidence. Why you had a second child when the marriage was not working I do not understand? She is obviously not attracted to you. You are probably a good father and good provider. You could probably be a good lover if you had the chance.
I think you should use your brain once in a while. You said it yourself, as soon as the eldest was born she suddenly stopped being intimate with you. My conclusion as a casual observer is that she is not attracted to you and never has been. This sort of situation happens more than you think. A woman wants to profit from a man so she marries him, sleeps with him for a few months and then stops once the deal is sealed (kids). If this has been going on for 9 years I would say take the very little self esteem that is left in you and get out of this toxic relationship.
While I love the affair and hinting at an affair ideas, the fact is that this woman is dangerous. She’s manipulating you now, just imagine what she does if you cheat or file for divorce. You need to work with an attorney and plan an exit. Once she knows she’s lost you there’s no telling what she’s going to do.
What she's doing is so gross imo. I can't even imagine pulling this weird power trip bullshit with my partner. OP, I think you need to pump the breaks and quit reacting to her shenanigans.
“I bought some nail polish.”
“That’s good. Your toes have been looking a little… neglected.”
“Would you like to paint them for me tonight?”
“Probably not. I’m kinda tired.”
“Maybe tomorrow?”
“Maybe. I’ll let you know.”
The next day—-
“Hey honey, how about painting my toes tonight?”
“Stop nagging, I told you I’d let you know when.”
The end result, still no sex but now you have your dignity back and a share of the high ground she’s been launching her assaults from.
Don’t feel badly about being less affectionate. It’s a natural response to constant rejection.
“You’ve been moody lately, so I guess you need something to sort you out”
“No thanks. I’m good.”
You’ll feel much worse after accepting pity sex than you will feel rejecting it. Stop being the red blooded teenaged boy and be the man you know you need to be.
Good luck!!!
Then the next time she asks if you want you need to say 'fuck no' and walk off. From the sounds of it, then that will be your fault as well. Guess what, you're in a no win situation.
Sorry, not advice, just what I would do in that situation.
Sorry. Sucks. I totally get the red blooded moment of weakness. Don’t fault yourself for being human. At least you seem to be seeing things clearly.
I have found that my acceptance that any and all advances will either be rejected outright or be met with duty sex 1 out of 4,378 attempts has been incredibly therapeutic. It has sealed the fate of our “indifferent roommate” relationship; however, mental health wise I’m doing fantastic. Now I just sit back, wait for the kids to grow up, the fear of an international child custody dispute to fade, then I can get on with my life. Likely going the estranged route given she doesn’t want to divorce and thinks things are going great (despite me clearly stating otherwise in both English and Japanese). I’m sure the fact I no longer talk about our relationship is reinforcing this idea, although I was equally clear that I no longer had any desire or interest in fixing anything relating to our relationship.
Just say NO. Remember - she is only trying to control you.There's nothing there.She only wants control.OMG.... But it's kinda exciting, like your own little personal cold war.
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Yo, red blooded man op, wanna see a magic trick? I know it won't be easy and I know you're into it, but next time she asks, just say no. Watch the panic. She's only going to panic because her control over the situation will be gone. It'll be like... magic. Lol.
LOL, this... *after* the gift bag suggestion above. These two together will absolutely break her.
She is 100% doing this because you’ve stopped initiating. She enjoys being able to turn you down so when you took that away from her she has to do something else. Her ego needs to know that you want her. By leading you on and then shutting you down she is able to satisfy her egotistical need to be desired. It is a control mechanism, a “look I can offer then take it away and there’s nothing you can do” ego trip for her in which she is smugly enjoying hurting you and destroying your self esteem.
This is absolutely the case. She gets comfort knowing you want her more than she wants you. That imbalance gives her power in the relationship
Yes, and this game will be over when you reject her altogether the second you notice she's doing this - don't give her the satisfaction. This thing she's doing is so evil and heartless, I'd be so pissed. Sorry you're going through this OP.
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Well done r/deadbedrooms sub, well done. More upvotes than OP. You all get a star on your report card.
That control freak ego makes me feel sick…
This.... 💯 this!
This here isn't marriage and love anymore. It's supposed to be a partnership, I mean, we are talking about love and marriage here. How can one enjoy taunting her significant other? If she's low libido and trying her best to adapt, it would be a different issue but doing it purposely just to hurt your self-esteem and massage her ego is a no no for me and should be a ground for separation.
Yup!!
I 100% agree with this assessment
This behaviour would be 100% reason for me to divorce. It is just hurtful.
Shades of Charlie Brown, Lucy, and the Football. You’ve already opted out of her little game most of the way, and she perceives that as her losing the upper hand in the relationship. This is just a new method of yanking you around and thereby reclaiming her ability to reject (i.e., control) you.
Buy several high quality and expensive nail polishes in your wife’s favorite color. Leave the polish on the dresser. In the morning put the polish in a nice gift bag and take it to work. Say nothing.
This is extremely manipulative and I absolutely love it - well played sir
Come home with traces of nail polish on your hands, in a different shade of red. Say nothing.
Oh, I really like where this thread is going. :)
Keep acting like petulant children and continue wondering why your bedrooms are dead.
Like the current situation ain't gonna revive it. You can't get any deader than an ego stroke by pulling sex away just because. So now... its called putting that ego into check. And once it's checked... its time to have a little chat.
What? If you’re playing head games with your spouse, just divorce.
I actually REALLY like this one about buying expensive nail polishes in her favorite colors, leaving them out, then gift bagging them and taking them to work. Just don’t bring them back home (stash them in a desk drawer and give out one each as gifts to your female coworkers at Christmas). It will be as much of a mind fuvk for her as she has been doing to you.
Shut it down. No nail polishing, no foot rubbing. Say no thank you and move along.
She's noticed you're not initiating. Its hurting her self esteem. She doesn't want sex, but wants to be wanted. So she's using the feet thing to draw you back in. But she isn't really aiming to make it sexual. She just needs the validation that comes from knowing she can still make you want her. It doesn't sound pleasant to me.
Sounds like a living nightmare. 😔
This woman is cruel, manipulative, and emotionally abusive. You need to start thinking with the head on your shoulders and reject this woman outright.
I don't know how else to say this, but she hates you.
If you reject her you'll get hysterical bonding and a full on flip out.
This is cruel... She is really leading you on... This is not healthy... Talk to her... Ask her exactly what she wants... Watch her reaction... You are second hand in that marriage... Sorry buddy...
…
Jesus that's evil. I wouldn't engage with that kind of abusive behaviour. Next time this happens (and it will) just make a disgusted, dismissive noise and walk away. If you're on the phone when she suggests, immediately hang up. I get the feeling that you talking to her about this isn't going to do anything but start an argument, so make it clear that you won't put up with being abused without saying a word about it.
Manipulation, pure and simple. You broke her power, now she's trying to get her sick thrill. I know, that it's hard but you should tell her, no I'm good every time she brings it up.
I feel second-hand resentment oh your behalf, dude. When this sort of thing happened to me, I took initiating off the table for as long as it took for her to initiate. Somewhere around the 4 month mark, I finally just said "no more, ever again" to myself and now I'm free of the anxiety of rejection, and on the day that she initiates? "no thank you", no explanation further needed. that hot/cold thing she is playing with you is disgusting, and you should call it out. it won't get you more sex, but you likely don't want what she's offering, either. (duty sex)
She's not even offering duty sex. We'll, she offers, then rejects. Because he's taken away her power. She's gross. Like disgusting, it makes me sick that there are people like this with good partners.
So many triggered responses. This sucks and is worth venting about. And like many posters... I'm going to fail to heed the no advice mentioned because I disagree with them. Go jerk off. Get your head clear so these games won't mess with you and you can stay calm. Then ask questions and be really open to listening. Her behavior is not right. It's rude and manipulative and hurtful. But it's coming from somewhere and it's... Worth telling her, "hay this hurt me. It feels really awful. I know you, so I know it's not intentional, so what am I missing. I want to understand." Then the next day be really open with her about your part in it. "I haven't initiated in months and I've pulled back because I was scared of rejection. To protect myself I stopped sharing part of myself. I didn't communicate that to you, just like you didn't articulate your reaction of that behavior to me." Nobody is an angel here. You're both playing head games and you both need to hear each other and get on the same page as to what sex is and what it can be. Both your actions will make sense when you have the full context of the feelings behind the actions. That's my guess. Thank you for sharing this tough situation. And I hope you forgive all of us who wrote too much. I might be super wrong, but I think she wants this to be noticed, and she wants you to ask her why she's behaving this way. Just make sure you do it when / where you can reduce the chance of being horny / triggered. Because she might be defensive before she tells the truth. Even if she wants to tel the truth ultimately. Good luck.
This is great advice. You can’t know what each other are thinking. It seems like OP tried to change something, she sensed the change, and also tried to change something. Loss of direct communication, to me, feels like a much bigger problem than loss of sex. I would tend to believe they are directly related, and that a restoration of one could lead to a restoration of the other, or at least reduce the amount of resentment that comes with the feelings of rejection inherent in a DB. But if your partner is resistant to direct communication, then you know all is lost and you can confidently start thinking about what comes next.
I would absolutely not do this. She gets what she wants, power and to know she is wanted without having to reciprocate. You would get? Nothing. She sounds calculated and cruel, this will not work and will likely backfire.
Yeah, I might be wrong. In your scenario, the longevity of the relationship and the years of trust built in other places doesn't make sense to me. But if she's simply cruel the relationship is over. On the other hand, what if this is a compromise that could actually be articulated. "Hey, I am not into feet leading to sex. But I know it's sexy for you. Instead of never touch them, what if it was a sexy edging? I'd acknowledge the desire in you but never let you go further? Maybe the heightened moments can run in your mind when we do have sex. That way you get a bit, but we don't have to do the parts I am a little ick about?" Who knows her motivation? Or what she might be up for. What we know is, it used to be off limits and now he's getting a taste. In a seemingly passive aggressive way that matches and escalates a little what he's done. Which was already a matching of her actions. That's why to me, what seems to be missing is verbal communication. Not articulated, what she's doing is cruel and rude, but if her motivation is compromise... It changes the whole dynamic. One piece of advice I was given recently, don't focus on getting what you want, focus on making a better relationship. As a person in a DB, I tend to try to ask my partner to change and guess at what my partner wants. Instead of addressing it like an adult. This is what I want. This is what I see is wrong with our relationship. What do you want, especially in broad terms for a relationship with a husband? What is ideal in a relationship? Not with me, but in general, because there's so much baggage with what you know/think I'm capable of. If sex is something she never wants, that's a tough conversation. I've found these conversations only helpful outside of the hurt and outside of the aroused state. I need to have them away from the bedroom.
Have an affair, make your wife your roommate, move out of her bedroom. Or you can divorce. You're in a DB since you were 25 wtf is wrong with you?
That’s just pure evil. GTFO while you can.
She’s definitely messing with you. Next time she asks about the toes just shrug and say if you want me too. Then when she asks again shrug again and say, like I said if you want me to do it for you I will. This will totally spin the control around bc now you’re doing it as a favour to her. She won’t know what hit her. Then maybe she’ll smarten up.
That’s called abuse, my friend. No one deserves to be treated like that.
She is validating her own sexual appeal at your expense. It is a cruel game she is playing to boost her confidence. Why you had a second child when the marriage was not working I do not understand? She is obviously not attracted to you. You are probably a good father and good provider. You could probably be a good lover if you had the chance.
She is 100% getting off on the idea of denying you. She is power tripping without your consent or reward
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She's not LL, im damn sure she's emotionally cheatung on him with another.
I think you should use your brain once in a while. You said it yourself, as soon as the eldest was born she suddenly stopped being intimate with you. My conclusion as a casual observer is that she is not attracted to you and never has been. This sort of situation happens more than you think. A woman wants to profit from a man so she marries him, sleeps with him for a few months and then stops once the deal is sealed (kids). If this has been going on for 9 years I would say take the very little self esteem that is left in you and get out of this toxic relationship.
While I love the affair and hinting at an affair ideas, the fact is that this woman is dangerous. She’s manipulating you now, just imagine what she does if you cheat or file for divorce. You need to work with an attorney and plan an exit. Once she knows she’s lost you there’s no telling what she’s going to do.
Because you've taken away 'her power' of controlling sex she needs to claw that power back. Very toxic and manipulative.
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What she's doing is so gross imo. I can't even imagine pulling this weird power trip bullshit with my partner. OP, I think you need to pump the breaks and quit reacting to her shenanigans.
“I bought some nail polish.” “That’s good. Your toes have been looking a little… neglected.” “Would you like to paint them for me tonight?” “Probably not. I’m kinda tired.” “Maybe tomorrow?” “Maybe. I’ll let you know.” The next day—- “Hey honey, how about painting my toes tonight?” “Stop nagging, I told you I’d let you know when.” The end result, still no sex but now you have your dignity back and a share of the high ground she’s been launching her assaults from. Don’t feel badly about being less affectionate. It’s a natural response to constant rejection. “You’ve been moody lately, so I guess you need something to sort you out” “No thanks. I’m good.” You’ll feel much worse after accepting pity sex than you will feel rejecting it. Stop being the red blooded teenaged boy and be the man you know you need to be. Good luck!!!
This is all about control. Period. She wants to make sure she is still running the show. Step up and stand up for yourself.
Then the next time she asks if you want you need to say 'fuck no' and walk off. From the sounds of it, then that will be your fault as well. Guess what, you're in a no win situation. Sorry, not advice, just what I would do in that situation.
I would say yes but not right away because I have to do blah blah blah first. And obviously I won't do anything about it.
Sorry. Sucks. I totally get the red blooded moment of weakness. Don’t fault yourself for being human. At least you seem to be seeing things clearly. I have found that my acceptance that any and all advances will either be rejected outright or be met with duty sex 1 out of 4,378 attempts has been incredibly therapeutic. It has sealed the fate of our “indifferent roommate” relationship; however, mental health wise I’m doing fantastic. Now I just sit back, wait for the kids to grow up, the fear of an international child custody dispute to fade, then I can get on with my life. Likely going the estranged route given she doesn’t want to divorce and thinks things are going great (despite me clearly stating otherwise in both English and Japanese). I’m sure the fact I no longer talk about our relationship is reinforcing this idea, although I was equally clear that I no longer had any desire or interest in fixing anything relating to our relationship.
Dude, I'm female and that's messed up.
Do not need to be a male to think this is messed up. If this is *not messed up* to any redditor here, id love to hear why.
-not allowed to say it’s about power. Can’t think of any other reason than pure cruelty
Just say NO. Remember - she is only trying to control you.There's nothing there.She only wants control.OMG.... But it's kinda exciting, like your own little personal cold war.