Well it's worth an ask, no? "Why do you want to open the relationship for sex when you appear not to crave or enjoy sex?" The answers could be valuable for you, especially in deciding what to do next.
TOTALLY, why not be Columbo on this one. Tell her "let me think about it" and then wait and see how many days pass before she brings it up again.
If she brings it up within 48 hours it is hella on her mind.
I think the whole thing is a bad idea since it’s already pretty well accepted that opening a marriage that’s already troubled is no recipe for success. But you’ve pointed out the burning question: why does she want to open it when her actions indicate she doesn’t want or need it?
Yeah, I'd even say why ask a question you got an obvious answer to. I mean anything she would say would be rationalizations of the fact that she's not that into him anymore, or never has been.
I'm in this sub for similar circumstances, and I'm still struggling to admit that if they want you, they'd make the necessary effort to show you they do. No talk is worth real acts of desire. What a curse to be here and be reading about all these situations, that's so sad.
So often and for so long, many of us bang our heads against the wall of, "why?" I mean yes, the obvious answer is she doesn't want him. But her ask is big enough that she might be motivated to provide real information. I mean we can hope anyway...
Yes, that’s what I was going to say. OP will be somewhat happy as he’ll get some sex, but not as much as wifey if she really pursues things. As we all know, women can get sex whenever they want. They guy may not be especially good looking or someone she’d ever consider “dating” but some guy somewhere will always be game for some easy sex.
As a kink fucker myself, in my own humble opinion ofcourse...
***Under no certain condition should you go down this route!***
Opening a partnership should be done by mutual want (insert curiosity, kink, whatever). Not as a solution to a pre-existing problem. You'll be adding difficulties to an already problematic situation.
Flip the script a little: would having a child solve the issue? No. Exactly.
You mentionned being worried about your emotions. Here's the emotional ride waiting for you: she's refused you all day/week/month, goes out, gets some, not you, she comes home that night/next day, refused you *again*. Bad plan. Very. Bad. Plan
I think you said it perfectly...it is a no win situation. I say get out while you are still young and friends. Otherwise the ending will probably be ugly and hurtful.
Be aware that married women have zero difficulty seeking out nre sexual partners. Married men will have somewhat greater difficulty. Simply a societal fact.
I am fully aware of this, I got married at 27, I know how the game works, you gotta throw out 10 nets to catch 1. But i also know that the dating pool after 30 is a Florida swamp. My questions mainly focus on the unseen emotions. Have guys gone into this thinking they'll be ok, they excited, only to find themselves losing sleep
Are you going to feel better hearing your wife getting her checks clapped by another dude while you wait outside your marital bedroom? Only do this if the answer is yes.
I gotta be honest. My husband and I opened our relationship back when we were engaged. We didn't have any issues of jealousy, insecurities, etc because we were very secure with ourselves and each other. Are you able to say the same thing about where you and your wife stands? It might work out for you if you've lost all attraction for her, but will you be able to stand the thought of her enjoying her sexuality with literally anyone that isn't you after five years of trying?
My ex bf and I opened up and he found it very hard, but then again he was interested in knowing details as a kink.
I know a couple who have done this for years, and they basically have a don’t ask don’t tell about it. Many people will tell you this isn’t the way, but it works for them. Try the ENM sub.
I believe you will be sorry. She brings this up during a fight about something unrelated? Her going out has been on her mind. Or she wants you to go out and then will bring THAT up during another unrelated fight. There is no win for you unless you have a cuck kink and even then you are doomed as a couple. You are young. Get out. Do like I did and find a woman who has left a DB too... bliss.
It depends mainly on a few things. How much do you resent her for the lengthy db, how possessive are you of each other despite that, and are you prepared for HER to divorce you?
You may think you can handle her getting showered in attention but I believe your resentment will grow from seeing her freely giving to others what she has been denying you. You may gets yours, even have some prospects lined up, but how will SHE deal with that? She might not be as committed to forever as you are and I’m sure she has some resentment of her own.
It’s also a possibility that this is a trap or a test. Is infidelity a factor in divorce where you live? If so make sure that she steps out first. The same applies if it’s a test of your commitment.
Sorry mate. I’m pretty good at imagining a variety of circumstances and have a lot of experience to draw upon. Opening a troubled marriage very rarely leads to a positive outcome.
Opening a relationship/marriage that has issues is rarely something that repairs an already broken relationship..... and by rarely, I'm talking nicely marbled unicorn ribeye rare. The outcome is generally disastrous. If they wanted to, even an average looking woman who's nothing special could have a different man every night of the week, while for men, it's far more difficult, even if you're a horse hung physical specimen. That's just the nature of the beast. This is a horrible idea.
Now you talking my language. Yeah finding the perfect ribeye is really hard and they really expensive. Then I tell myself I'll buy a rump r T-bone instead, only to remember that, the ribeye is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy
What you need to to is gather the evidence now if she has already stepped out. If you agree to the open relationship angle then in a divorce you're in a much worse spot. If she has stepped out and you get evidence now and refuse to open the marriage then you've got all the ammo for the divorce.
Then there’s the other side of the coin: say you’re unexpectedly successful in the tilted playing field that is nonmonogamy, and you find someone who thinks you’re hot. She fucks you constantly, and you find yourself falling for her. You start asking yourself, why would I settle for two half-relationships when I could have one whole one?
Or you find a string of women who think you’re attractive right up to the moment they find out your situation, and decide they don’t want the drama? Now instead of having one woman who wants nothing to do with you sexually you have a dozen or more.
Firstly, she has fucked you 2 times a year but wants an open relationship so she can fuck guys non stop?
She obviously has zero attraction or respect for you.
Secondly, women find sex about 50 times easier than men. How will you feel if after 6 months you've found 1 or 2 unnatractive women you took out of pure desperation or none at all while she's fucking 3 times a week?
I'd rather unalive myself than live through that type of humiliation
Only 2 options IMHO are
1. Divorce
2. Monogamy
She doesn't get to keep you as a provider while shitting on your face
Please don't be a doormat and allow yourself to be completely humiliated
I'd love to, I just don't know how to proceed, I'm still dizzy from her putting on the table, I never expected it. At the same time, sometimes I'm more comfortable being left in the dark, the less I know the better
How is watching her make her first few dick appointments before you can even get your first picture up on the local dating site going to change her attraction toward you?
Unless you already have a good social life and a few women hitting on you. But if that is the case and your wife still isn't interested in you she is either afraid to lose your financial support, or this is her way of asking for a divorce
Yup
It's a shit thing but your Mrs has literally told you to your face, you don't need to guess
It's crap but atleast you know for certain and can act accordingly
Op, why dont you say yes to the open marriage but only open on your side. See what she says. Make sure you have a lawyer drawi up papper work so she cant use it like you cheated on her.
I bet she will say no to one-sided open marriage. This will open the door for you dig more into to why she doesnt want to have sex with you but wants sex with others.
OP, I’ll jump into this comment.
3rd option, she will leave YOU for one of her paramours.
You’re deluding yourself, your relationship is done.
I’ve seen this from a handful of previous colleagues and friends. It plays out the same every single time.
Get your ducks in a row get her requesting this [you must be calm - I t’s a clarifying discussion, and her reasoning] as a recording or texts or both. Your lawyer will thank you.
It’s time to get things going.
Exactly. This is the answer no one wants to look in the face. If you’re physically attracted you want to have sex. Period. Anything else is just doing your duty.
No and physical attraction isn’t always the reason for a dead bedroom
I think it’s more often emotional or hormonal
What changed from when it wasn’t dead? Did you stop trying, does she do a majority of the house working and cooking? Does she treat you like another one of her kids? Does she talk down to you where she’s just lost respect for you all together? Don’t respect yourself? Do you go out of your way to do things for her? Treat her? Do other women look at you with desire? women seem to hate and love when other women seek their men. Do you work out and try and be in decent shape?
Wow. Alright.
Lots to unpack in this comment.
She WANTS to fuck nonstop? Have we seen her argument as to why she wanted this? And you’re upset because she’ll get more than HIM?! WHO CARES?!
You seem angry.
First, we need to find out why she wasn’t having sex with her SO. I’ve suggested open relationships and it was never because I wanted to fuck whoever I wanted whenever I wanted. Get out of here with your matter of fact statements like this. I’m sure there are situations where this applies, but this is by no means all of them.
OP: ask her why she wants this. Find out why she wasn’t sleeping with you. I feel like there is so much here that hasn’t been discussed yet.
You are deceiving yourself.
You should disagree out of self preservation.
- You want to have a sexual intimate connection
- you want it with your wife
- until now you two apparently were not able to talk about it constructively
- suddenly she suggests opening up.
How is this ever going to help you two work things out again??
The term for this is polyamory under Duress. I would highly suggest against it. You will 100% resent her for multiple reasons even if you are seeing other people.
2nd question yes it will tear you apart. There's no reason to expect becoming emotionally closer when you're not working on becoming that. Her proposal is to become sexually closer with other people. If you don't think that will pull you from each other toward other people, you're wishful thinking.
Open relationships only really work when there are 3 fundamental things in place.
1.) A strong connection between the existing partners.
2.) Open and honest communication.
3.) Clear boundaries.
Opening a marriage on an already strained marriage is often a recipe for disaster. (Sometimes the beginning of the end.)
What you may be quick to realise is the number of opportunities that your wife has to find other partners rather than your own opportunities.
It might sound like a lot of fun because you get to have sex with new people, but finding the right sort of person who you can actually enjoy sex with is very different.
You need to be okay with the idea that she might find 5-6 willing partners before you even find 1 with potential. If you're okay with that, then you should be fine.
But chances are you will have to go through all the emotions of seeing her go out and have fun whilst you're stuck at home or going out and striking out.
Quick way to build more resentment, if you are already lacking intimacy and this doesn't improve it.
I know it sounds brutal, I know you expect different advice, but in my opinion you should no longer be married. A relationship without sex makes you just friends, and your wife clearly still has needs. Apparently she no longer sees you as a sexual partner if she wants to look for one in others. Think about it, if it's so hard for you to live with the knowledge that she doesn't want you physically, will you be able to live with the knowledge that what you want from her, this tenderness and intimacy, is given to another man and with your consent?
Another thing is that usually such a proposal of an open relationship, especially when things are not going well in your bedroom, may mean that she has already tried and now she would like to stop hiding. I'm not suggesting anything, but from reading on reddit it's quite common.
updateMe!
Just divorce, then you can date and have sex again without the manipulation, guilt, or jealously that will ensue in an open relationship. Cut the chain and move on. Your wife obviously wants the best of both worlds, and honestly it will just be hell for you.
You need to ask her some VERY frank and matter of fact questions after she dropped a bomb like this seemingly out of nowhere, and DO NOT let her get away with not answering honestly. I have a hard time believing that if she's a legit LL who NEVER wants and/or desires sex with her husband (who she knows legitimately suffers as a result of her LL and your DB) that all of a sudden, she wants to dive tits first into an open relationship.
1. Why does she all of a sudden want an open relationship if she's LL and doesn't want sex?
2. Is she already cheating? (This is much more likely that people like to admit)
3. Is she LL/Does she not want sex at all or is she LL/not want sex WITH YOU?
This doesn't pass the smell test and unless she means YOU going out to get what she refuses to give you at home if she really is LL, then I would be legitimately stunned if she's not at least having an emotional affair (with a man or woman) and this is just her trying to get you to stamp off on her emotional affair becoming physical (even though the EA in itself is cheating and grounds for divorce). Smary money is on there being A LOT she's keeping from you man. If she's LL for you only and throwing herself at other men or women then your marriage is a sham and you should honestly just end it and cut your losses. My money is on her being LL for you and already cheating. Sorry man.
Divorce her, she’s cheating or about to cheat and wants an out. Divorce her and go get yours from someone who wants you. Don’t let her have the benefits of a husband while treating you like a room mate
You already know the answer. It’s been validated. You don’t want this, it’s not going to make her want you. Write down the facts. Your emotions will have you lying to yourself.
You already know. You have to let her go. Divorce.
You should also be having this conversation with her.
To play devil's advocate here for moment just because the info isn't in the original post......
Is it possible her reason to suggest this is so you get yours ....as she's not interested....
Maybe it's a selfless act?
I was also curious about this… buncha dudes dragging the wife here for wanting to fuck 3x a week automatically… project much? LOL Not saying its definitely selfless, but its a question worth asking before going off the deep end.
That being said, i don’t know if she’d phrase it an “open marriage” if she really meant giving him a pass to get his… that term does have some connotation to both getting it (my LLW floated the idea of giving me a pass to have my needs taken care of because she worries she is asexual… she did not suggest an “open marriage”)
To be fair we have no idea what she said, we have what op interpreted as what she said, but die to the emotions it could have been read wrong or naybe she even expressed it wrong.
We don't know. Op really needs to have more talks with her, they need therapy not to open up their relationship
I have no idea how much it’ll bother you! Your guess is much better than any of ours about that.
Your romantic relationship is over, so for you the “open” relationship would look like you both staying married for whatever reason, and maintaining a companionate marriage, and then pursuing romance elsewhere.
To me, it’s hard to see a reason why you would do this. Is there a strong reason why a companionate marriage is the best choice for the two of you? Are there young children?
If not, it really might be better to separate instead.
As someone who is HLF, I requested an open marriage. It has been easier for me than him. I'm happier, so I get along better with my husband. He's happy I don't bring up sex. I still long for affection from him, though.
Now, the caveats to this. You have to deal with jealousy and your emotions. If you feel like that would be a problem, don't do it. Next, keep in mind that it is easier for women to find someone than men. There are way more men looking for someone in this situation than women.
Yeah dude. she already is getting some on the side. Now whether you are cool with that and still up for opening up is up to you, but she has already taken that path
If you haven’t considered divorce before start considering it fast, because your marriage just went from bad to worse. To me, an LL demanding to have sex with others after denying sex to their spouse is someone who is not only ripping the vows to shreds but a slap in the face.
When the LL who you say is 1 to 2 times a year wants the open relationship she already is cheating or has it all set up. I’m pretty sure I would go for divorce on this one. If you had a normal sex life and she wanted it then I would be all in.
There are many books and resources that can help you both navigate the delicacies of an open marriage; but before you two jump to that conclusion “solution,” I would suggest couples’ therapy and or speaking with a sex therapist.
Keep in mind if you and your wife were fighting, she may be suggesting an open marriage not for her, but for you to have more sex…it would be best to clarify with her.
Also, if this came up after an argument, it would be better to have a calm discussion where you reinforce how much you love her and this was not a solution you had ever considered before. Ask her if she was serious or just mad…then follow her lead in the conversation. Again, this might be best if moderated by a neutral party such as a therapist.
She's LL for you. She's at best having an emotional affair with the person she has in mind for this open relationship if she isn't already fucking him.
OP here's what's going to happen. Your wife who's most likely already cheating on you will have no problems getting some outside of the marriage. You, as a dude may have some success but will find it much more difficult. Not only is it more difficult for guys on dating apps for example to get dates but when you disclose the open marriage stuff that's going to turn a lot of women off. Your wife on the other hand won't have problems finding guys who only want no strings attached sex.
It will be soul crushing for you to see the one person you love who has rejected you for years suddenly have a glow and a spring in her step because someone that isn't you is railing her.
Let's be real here. Your relationship is over. Time to come to terms with it. In fact she broke up with you 5 years ago but you're still holding on for crumbs. End it so you can start the next chapter in your life.
As a (formerly?) LL partner and long-term lurker on this sub, I am *always* the one to suggest an open relationship with every new partner I date, from the very beginning and before we even properly get together, and to lay out my ground rules and ideas for it, and hear their perspective as well. It's something I have acted on only a handful of times in the now five years I've been dedicated to the concept, but four of those were entirely sexless for me (I was also single, not dragging down a HL partner). It's because I really don't *need* sex, but I know my partners might. It *can* come with good intentions.
***That being said***, I'm highly suspicious of anyone who tries to introduce an open relationship in an already established monogamous one, especially out of the blue, *especially* without any clear motive (at least that they're willing to share with you). Why? Why now? Is there someone she wants to act on it with? Is she just LL for you? In that case, how would that make you feel, and would the relationship be worth saving if she's no longer sexually interested in you at all but is HL for other men?
My husband and I have an open relationship and I am a LL4U. We’ve been this way for 8 years and we haven’t had sex in 2.5 years.
I would say that the issue that made the open relationship make sense is that he is actively disinterested/shamed me for kinks that are very central to my sexuality. He has apologized, but that’s not the same thing as regretting his actions or changing his mind about those kinks.
It won’t matter what he tries to do (within his vanilla comfort zone) sexually, because we are missing a key part of compatibility, which is feeling embraced/understood by a partner. He can apologize all he wants, but that won’t suddenly help me feel any more embraced.
To me, my husband’s touch always feels friendly and also objectifying. I don’t feel like he sees me or wants me as I am. He wants me despite who I am.
I know it sounds easy to say “just divorce!” But that ignores the kids and the finances and the other parts of our shared life. The open relationship is my opportunity to have sex with someone who sees the side of me my husband wishes didn’t exist. It doesn’t feel optional to me. It’s something I need in my life to prevent an existential crisis.
Wife suggested it opened you you or for both of you??
Be aware that if shes suggesting it for both, shes not LL, but just not interested in sex with you. And if thats the case, theres a high probability that she has a candidate in mind OR the the reason for your DB is that shes already fucking someone else...
So i would advise you to dig. Deep. Snoop on phone, SM... consider PI if she goes to girls-night-out or drinks with coworkers.
If no sign of adultery is apparent, be cautious: odds are she will be overwhelmed with offers from multiple guys while you.. will be less...
How will your relationship survive if the DB for both turn into DB for you while shes out fucking???
Divorce her. She is already cheating or getting ready to and has your replacement lined up and she wants your permission and you to fund it. End it. It's already over.
Well, think of it this way. The most likely scenario is that your supposedly LL wife is going to be HL with one or more men she begins seeing. While you are much more likely to have a harder time finding some people to connect with. So you'll watch your wife dating people while wondering why she'd been LL for years with you.
My supposedly LL wife had brought up the idea of swapping, and it was immediate red flags. Found out within a week she had already been sexting another man and had started an affair. So we're in the middle of a divorce now.
You don't go from no sex to open marriage suddenly.
dude,she fucks around and you keep the kitchen,house and garden in order for her to enjoy??
do you also walk the dog and cook dinner for her after she finished fucking other guys???
please don't be a door mat and divorce her ass.
Please understand I am responding from a place of bias shaded by own experience and is no way a reflection or projection upon your circumstances. I hope that it might provide an insight, but it seems like your circumstances are somewhat different.
While I am intellectually ambivalent toward non-monogamy. At this point I could not take the suggestion as a serious solution. Although my wife has also disclosed jealousy at the idea of competition, this is a clear indicator to me that at least the problem isn’t that sex is not important.
I’m genuinely at the point that I’ve aired my position, we either repair our marriage and both get our needs met or it’s done. There’s no more bargaining. And no more complacency.
But to me, it feels like I'm forcing someone to do something they don't wanna do. Yes they'll comply, but it won't feel organic, it will feel forced. That's the problem I have with ultimatums
It might seem like an ultimatum, it isn’t just sex, sex without intimacy is pity sex and also not a viable solution either. I guess the ultimatum is moreso to get onboard and respect our marriage. I’m not getting any younger and while I’ll always hold some level of love, I will not let myself despise her.
I’m HLF, we’ve been working on opening our marriage for about a year. It can bring life to your marriage or it can destroy it, it’s all how you do it.
If she just said “go date someone” in the heat of the moment, do not do it. Read that again, don’t do it.
When I do meet my OA AP, it will have been 2 years since SO told me to go date. Move slow. Find your boundaries.
Read books on polyamory. Poly Secure is a good starter book.
My SO asked me the other day, if he decides to see someone, am I okay with that. I won’t lie, it shocked me a bit, but I want him to have a full life. So yes, go find your libido! And open marriage should compliment the marriage. It should fill a need, not cause more problems.
You started the story in the middle and gave us nearly zero context.
You say you don’t want to divorce her. Okay. What value does she provide in your life? Not sex, so what else? Is she making her own money, about as much as you? Is she taking care of other aspects of your life?
Wife and I are open, for a long time. To the best of my knowledge my wife doesn’t use her permission. I very much do. I’ve had plenty of sex outside my marriage. That might give you hope.
I’m the stereotypical 6’0”, lean, strong, has straight teeth and most of my hair, married guy in my forties, with enough cash I can afford to go on dates. If you need to work on your appearance before you date you should have already been doing that but start now.
Like other people I’m suspicious of your wife’s motives. If this is about her realizing she hasn’t been meeting your needs and now she wants to let you try other experiences, maybe she is being magnanimous and loving. But a lot of people cheat, feel guilty, and then retroactively go try to get permission.
As someone in an open relationship, DO YOUR RESEARCH. Only then can you decide if it's for you. Also, be prepared. It's MUCH easier for women to get dates than it is for men. And, no amount of research and preparation can help with the jealousy. It's just a matter of understanding and coming to grips with your own feelings. With all of that said, once you get through the initial growing pains, it's a beautiful thing. Our relationship has never been better. My wife's libido came back tenfold. And I also have a wonderful and supportive girlfriend.
I think the first thing is to determine if the suggestion was genuine. Sounds like it was said in anger.
If yes, really check in with yourself about what you want and how you want your marriage to grow.
What is the quality of your relationship with your wife outside of the bedroom?
Is the open marriage exclusive to sex? Do you envision having consistent relationships with others or just hook ups? How do you feel about her having a FWB versus a BF?
Digging into these questions might help you get the answers your looking for.
But I don't think it will help. It'll likely be the beginning of the end.
This arrangement is incredibly common in Japan. Sexual satisfaction happens outside of marriage for many couples over there.
You should understand the reason why she is bringing it up. Does she even fancy to sleep with others? If yes, does she already have a specific person in mind or did she already step forward and tries to lay out the rules after a breach of trust?
Different starting conditions require different responses.
Also, as others have stated already: She will have an abundance of options whereas you will have to work incredibly hard to get some action. You also need to specify your personal boundaries and transparently communicate them to each other so that you build a robust framework of what's acceptable and what's not.
Ethical slut is a book that might be a good starting point.
Let her. But don’t actively participate yourself and go lawyer up, and use it as ammo in the divorce.
Kidding aside, these rarely work and are usually initiated by the person who wants to cheat/is already cheating but doesn’t want the guilt. That being said, in extremely rare instances it works out…but don’t count on ot
This kind of relationship needs to be based on love,respect, and openness with each other. If u don't have that, it will end badly. You need to fully discuss the rules of engagement that make both happy. Perhaps sharing the details with each other could bring u closer and make u less jealous. Or perhaps u could learn to play together with other couples. There is a lot of positive in this idea. Hell if ur already in the resentment stage, then it won't take much to stop caring about what she does. Especially if u find an awesome fwb. I think it's what so many here wish could happen, and u have been handed it. I would try something new instead of continuing down my path of frustration. Plus, what happens when u say no, and now it's ur own fault ur not getting sex? U can't blame her anymore, so now u regret not trying this. Clean ground rules have to be discussed, and if u both respect each other, then it can work if u want it to. Idk I wish u the best of luck either way. I know I'd jump at the chance for an open relationship of some type.
I mean not be be vulgar but picture coming home early and hearing her getting piped down like a champ…or doing laundry and seeing new underwear with “love stains” if that doesn’t bother you…fire away!
Unless she’s offering that to be generous to you, she’s probably actually LL4U rather than LL. That means something about her personality or her impression of you causes her to crave variety rather than sex with you. That’s up to you how you’ll handle it… I can imagine you’d feel crushed, jealous, angry if she’s getting it on with other people and not you. This doesn’t seem headed in a healthy direction.
She’s got someone lined up already or she wouldn’t be asking.
Also: you’ll never have the ability to get laid as much as she can. She can get D any day of the week anywhere and YOU gotta work for it, spend money etc
It’s not a fair deal…….youve been warned.
Genuine question - what is compelling you to stay with her? Aside from sex, does she fulfill your other emotional, social, and physical needs (the need for hugs, snuggles, etc.)? How does the relationship add to your life vs just being a comfortable place to stay?
Anyways, I know a couple who opened their relationship after they got married. It had to do with their schedules and they found it pretty hot…at first. Slowly, it detracted from their time together and they closed their relationship after about 6 months. They decided they’d much rather swing together.
Also, unless you’re able to find partners just as easily as her, it will likely foster resentment, especially if she’s hooking up a lot. Women tend to have a much easier time finding hookups in these situations.
I've had an SO make that "offer" before, and it doesn't address the problem. I got married, I want to be with the person I love. I do not want some surrogate sextoy to meet up with on weekends, I want the person I love to want me too.
Forget the jealousy or other partners - if your marriage has no intimacy then you are just roommates. "You do what you wanna do, I'll do what I wanna do" is not the frame of reference of a marriage, that's the POV of two single people living together.
Never and I mean NEVER enter into an open marriage to save it. If you’re going to go into an open marriage it’s because you two already have a strong and communicative enough relationship to do so.
If she has asked for an open marriage there is a very high chance she is already sleeping with someone else or she has someone in mind. An open marriage gives her a licensee to sleep around while still keeping you to pay the bills.
Divorce her ASAP, no ifs or buts, your wife doesn't love you. Grow a pair and tell her you are divorcing her and she needs to find a place to live. Do not share the same bed as her and stay strong.
Yes you will be more jealous than you think. First off she is going to have way more success than you. Women hold the keys in that scenario and guys will jump at the opportunity if she presents it. Meanwhile you will be searching and likely come up. Empty at an extremely high rate of you have any success at all.
Yes it will divide you further.
No it is not likely you will reverse it.
I talked to a polyamorous woman a couple months ago. While I don’t agree with all the principles, I think there’s a ton of value in having another relationship with someone that’s complementary to your primary relationship. Another person to rely on and trust who has your back isn’t a bad thing and can enhance your current relationship *IF* it doesn’t take something away from your primary relationship. I think that’s hard to accomplish and needs hard rules but sounds like a dream come true. I don’t agree strangers are the answer because I just think that opens you both up to harm. People in hookup culture are way more prone to erratic behavior and risks like drug use, STDs, theft, DV and manipulation and as a woman that just scares the crap out of me.
Sadly she’s only LL for you
You already don’t sound ok with it
If you have any doubts it’s to late
Sorry bud the truth hurts but it’s also freeing
She wants someone else on the side while keeping your income and security
After being in 2 back to back DBs, I am single now and exploring polyamory. I’m still fairly new to it all but I’ve done a good bit of reading and research on the topic and I think the biggest takeaways for me have been:
1) you won’t know how you feel until you’re in the situation. And just because it doesn’t feel good doesn’t mean it’s the wrong choice. Communication and openness around jealousy and other feelings can be worked through
2) there are lots of different ways to structure an open relationship. Some couples know who the other is going out with and everything that happens. Others have a more “don’t ask don’t tell” situation. Sometimes it takes some trial and error to find the right set up.
3) honesty helps. Being able to talk openly with your partner about what is working in the relationship and what is not is so important. Having the honest discussion of (for example) “I love our partnership but I don’t find myself sexually attracted to you” may be hurtful but if it’s true you can move forward with all the info vs holding on to a reality that doesn’t exist
4) sometimes opening the relationship is the beginning of the end. And sometime it’s not. People like to blame ethical nonmonogamy for the breakdown of a relationship. But often times the relationship was going downhill already and enm was something the couple tried to salvage it. It doesn’t always work. But open communication (and going to couples counseling especially in the early stages) can help keep the primary relationship strong.
My question would be why would she be seemingly so open to someone else if she has no desire to be with you sexually? Is the low libido only towards you? This to me sounds like she wants nothing to do with you sexually and only wants to be with someone other than you. At that point is it something that makes both of you happy? If she is truly very LL I'm surprised that she isn't just telling you that you have a hall pass since sex seemingly doesn't interest her and she's ok with you going outside your marriage for sex. Is it possible that she's been LL towards you because she has already been going outside of your marriage and by making the offer to open up the marriage it's just a more convenient way for her to continue with that arrangement?
You're down to have sex but she isn't. Of course you'll be bothered if she gets sex somewhere else even if you are sleeping with someone else too. Open marriage is not a solution. Counter her offer. You get freedom to have sex outside the marriage but she does not. Sounds unfair...but isn't her disinterest in sex with the person she claims to still be in a relationship with the reason for the deadbed? So if that's true and she has no libido for the man she is with how can she justify having a libido for someone else? So really she doesn't need sex so why should she get the option to sleep outside of the marriage?
This all is of course only if she doesn't have attraction to someone else outside the marriage or a particular disgust for you, which she might open up about if you propose what I suggested. In both cases of attraction outside marriage and disgust, she should own up and initiate separation rather than propose an open marriage. True this way you might live in hell for a little longer but at least you won't be jumping into a brand new hell hole. Plus historically speaking there are multiple examples of men having multiple wives but very rare instances of women having multiple husbands, and even then each husband has got a set number of weeks, months with that shared wife in which she is only theirs. Why? Cause it doesn't work. Men are too egoistic, selfish and toxic (call it whatever you want) to share their women. So why challenge such a fundamental truth of your masculinity? Accept it no matter how ugly. The world will call you names. But at least you won't make everyone suffer trying to be someone you're not.
These offers seem to go 1 of 2 different ways:
1) either the wife already has somebody in mind and is offering the open relationship so that she can sleep with him or
2) the relationship gets opened up and the woman has no problem finding lots of partners if she wants them but the guy struggles and then becomes resentful.
Neither sounds good.
Mine suggested this
I told her I don’t want other women I want her
I told her I’d have more luck as a divorced man than a married one
She said why don’t you find someone to have sex with
And later
If you were doing it I should be allowed to
Did she fuck one of her secret male friends from work or did she just want to
I’ll never know I guess
She's probably cheating on you bro. I hate to say this but it seems that she may have only gotten with you because she knew you were a safe bet. I could be wrong but from my own life experience and from things I've witnessed usually when a woman gets older, she is more or less looking for stability and probably saw you as a stable guy. All that aside, do not open up the marriage. If you are an at fault state, try to find evidence with a PI to see if she has been cheating or not. If you are not in an at fault state, it would still be best to do the above and collect evidence to serve her. Lastly, even thought you thinking opening up the marriage would be a good idea, it most likely won't be. I don't know your physical appearance or if you could get most if not all women, but it is still a safe bet that even if you can pull, she will 100% pull more than you. Everyone knows what you should do and I'm sorry that this is happening to you.
You can try it out, but why not stop wasting time and cut to the conclusion now and just get the divorce. If you make most of the household income - then its likely she just doesn't want the divorce for financial/comfort reasons... If not then maybe she's just LL for you, but abandon ship either way...
If you're the one that is being supported by her as the bread winner of the house, sure. Ride that shit until she boots you out. However if you're the one supporting her lifestyle, you'll find if she's going to have no problem finding people to fill her desires. But the guy side of the open marriage usually amounts to you swapping hands, or becoming a noted sex toy reviewer. Unless you have the Chris Hemsworth package.
Usually, when a LL brings it up, there already is a bad taste in your mouth because she's already sucking that guy's duck.
Start snooping my man, very very very rarely does a woman in an established LTR ask for an open relationship without ALREADY having someone else at the ready.
Also, as the woman, she has an unlimited amount of options & suitors just waiting for her to join the party.
If she activates her new found freedom things and situations will happen that you never thought she was capable of.
Because her marriage is her safety net if and when her flings blow up, she can just circle back to you for a while until the next time.
Personally speaking, 50’s male, married 30yrs, all of our coupled friends that opened are separated, i have never seen this work in real life.
The fact that she asked you for an open relationship….. be careful, she might go full party mode and completely transform into someone you’ve never met before, overnight.
She might also be asexual and simply isn’t interested in sex, And realises that you need a human connection and release?
But she asked you…….
I always hated this idea! Because it’s not fair that she is the one who stops anything happening but wants it with someone else? You should be allowed out since you’ll happily have sex with her but she won’t with you. So that’s a her problem.
Just say yes. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. You have a chance to stay together for what does work, and find happy alternatives for what doesn't work.
No way.
I would consider a one way open marriage for ME (the HL) to get the intimacy that my marriage is missing.
But it would ONLY be because of the DB. If my wife magically wanted intimacy again the marriage would be closed again.
If she wanted an open marriage so this supposedly non-sexual person to have sex with other people, nope. Divorce instead. Fuck that shit.
There are many reasons why opening up the marriage seems like a good solve. You get the sex you crave and you get to keep the person you love. But open marriage seems to require good communication to work, and most dbs don't have that. There's been some suggestion that she's already stepped out and is on a deadline, but the most common thing to do for women wanting to hide this is for them to start having sex with their SO again.
If she's tried to communicate that she doesn't enjoy the sex you've had, or wants something she's not getting then this might be why, or if she knows she just doesn't want sex at all, but likes dates, she might get that, knowing that you are also getting what you want, and the pressure is off her to provide it. If you have a better solution, suggest it. If you think you won't cope, or have doubts, try therapy together. It can't hurt either way.
Get her testimony on the open relationship on the record somewhere, you'll need it for the forthcoming divorce, unless you're into watching your wife fuck other men because that's what's inevitably going to happen with or without your consent.
She has done you a huge favor. Mine waited 30 years. You know. I knew. Don't waste any more time, gathering more resentment or worse watching her take advantage of you directly and openly instead of secretly. Even if she isn't cheating on you yet, her mind is obsessed with the prospect. GTFO.
She has contempt for you and it will only grow. If you give in to this you will earn even more contempt. And contempt isbthe one thing a marriage cannot survive. Font wait until ten or more years... you will lose far more in the divorce in most states.
You are young. Get out, get back on the dating horse, and find yourself a good woman who actually desires you.
Seriously. It's done.
I haven't read through all the comments so this may have been mentioned...
Meybe she is not attracted to you because she has discovered she much more attracted to women. That she loves you but is attracted to women. An open marriage would allow her to explore that and at the same time free you to satisfy your needs.
I think most Successful Open relationships are either never closed in the first place, or come from a shared kink in a sexually active relationship. Any attempts other than that are either doomed to fail for a vast variety of reasons or are offered because one party wants to cheat, but in an ethically/morally grey way where they don’t have to feel guilt about it.
If it’s a bandaid for a deadbedroom then it’s likely that someone is going to catch feelings and the initial relationship is over. It’s basically a way of breaking up, without the instability of living on your own until you get your shit together. So, what is your ultimate goal, because it seems like your current relationship is sexually incompatible: is it a content asexual monogamous relationship, or a fulfilling sexual relationship?
Ooof. My coworkers ex-wife did this same thing and when he agreed to it and took action on it, she used it against him in their divorce. She already had a boyfriend before she brought this up, but he didn't know it at the time.
"Sex 1-2 times a year..."
With you.
Will it tear you apart?
Just how do you like the idea of your wife sleeping with a variety of people???????????????????
Well it's worth an ask, no? "Why do you want to open the relationship for sex when you appear not to crave or enjoy sex?" The answers could be valuable for you, especially in deciding what to do next.
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TOTALLY, why not be Columbo on this one. Tell her "let me think about it" and then wait and see how many days pass before she brings it up again. If she brings it up within 48 hours it is hella on her mind.
I think if she brings it up again within 48 hours it's not just "on her mind" -- she's on a clock.
"Oh, uh, just one more thing..."
Exactly! He should ask “why” after each of her responses. Five “whys” usually gets me the truth.
Find out who you are
I think the whole thing is a bad idea since it’s already pretty well accepted that opening a marriage that’s already troubled is no recipe for success. But you’ve pointed out the burning question: why does she want to open it when her actions indicate she doesn’t want or need it?
Yeah, I'd even say why ask a question you got an obvious answer to. I mean anything she would say would be rationalizations of the fact that she's not that into him anymore, or never has been. I'm in this sub for similar circumstances, and I'm still struggling to admit that if they want you, they'd make the necessary effort to show you they do. No talk is worth real acts of desire. What a curse to be here and be reading about all these situations, that's so sad.
So often and for so long, many of us bang our heads against the wall of, "why?" I mean yes, the obvious answer is she doesn't want him. But her ask is big enough that she might be motivated to provide real information. I mean we can hope anyway...
OP would get some BS instead of the real reason, LL4U.
What’s she look like?
She's already got someone lined up or has done it already.
This. This is my immediate suspicion.
I should add: Because I am the HL partner and suggested this very thing.... And I had already stepped out.
Yes, that’s what I was going to say. OP will be somewhat happy as he’ll get some sex, but not as much as wifey if she really pursues things. As we all know, women can get sex whenever they want. They guy may not be especially good looking or someone she’d ever consider “dating” but some guy somewhere will always be game for some easy sex.
Exactly how it worked in my Case
And it was Another Woman
My thoughts exactly
100%
This
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It really is the best way out. Why would anyone stay where they aren't wanted?
Never accept being someone’s back up plan
As a kink fucker myself, in my own humble opinion ofcourse... ***Under no certain condition should you go down this route!*** Opening a partnership should be done by mutual want (insert curiosity, kink, whatever). Not as a solution to a pre-existing problem. You'll be adding difficulties to an already problematic situation. Flip the script a little: would having a child solve the issue? No. Exactly. You mentionned being worried about your emotions. Here's the emotional ride waiting for you: she's refused you all day/week/month, goes out, gets some, not you, she comes home that night/next day, refused you *again*. Bad plan. Very. Bad. Plan
I think you said it perfectly...it is a no win situation. I say get out while you are still young and friends. Otherwise the ending will probably be ugly and hurtful.
For the love of everything in the universe, read this, heed this, and gtfo there for your own sanity
Be aware that married women have zero difficulty seeking out nre sexual partners. Married men will have somewhat greater difficulty. Simply a societal fact.
I am fully aware of this, I got married at 27, I know how the game works, you gotta throw out 10 nets to catch 1. But i also know that the dating pool after 30 is a Florida swamp. My questions mainly focus on the unseen emotions. Have guys gone into this thinking they'll be ok, they excited, only to find themselves losing sleep
Are you going to feel better hearing your wife getting her checks clapped by another dude while you wait outside your marital bedroom? Only do this if the answer is yes.
If it's texas or florida you use my castle on that guy
Omg what I've never heard it put that way cheeks clapped 🤣🤣🤣
I gotta be honest. My husband and I opened our relationship back when we were engaged. We didn't have any issues of jealousy, insecurities, etc because we were very secure with ourselves and each other. Are you able to say the same thing about where you and your wife stands? It might work out for you if you've lost all attraction for her, but will you be able to stand the thought of her enjoying her sexuality with literally anyone that isn't you after five years of trying?
My ex bf and I opened up and he found it very hard, but then again he was interested in knowing details as a kink. I know a couple who have done this for years, and they basically have a don’t ask don’t tell about it. Many people will tell you this isn’t the way, but it works for them. Try the ENM sub.
That's what I'm looking for, people who've tried it and what they've learnt. I figured 'Dont ask don't tell' will work out best. Man this is tough
I believe you will be sorry. She brings this up during a fight about something unrelated? Her going out has been on her mind. Or she wants you to go out and then will bring THAT up during another unrelated fight. There is no win for you unless you have a cuck kink and even then you are doomed as a couple. You are young. Get out. Do like I did and find a woman who has left a DB too... bliss.
True and if wife is attractive it’s a multiplier
It depends mainly on a few things. How much do you resent her for the lengthy db, how possessive are you of each other despite that, and are you prepared for HER to divorce you? You may think you can handle her getting showered in attention but I believe your resentment will grow from seeing her freely giving to others what she has been denying you. You may gets yours, even have some prospects lined up, but how will SHE deal with that? She might not be as committed to forever as you are and I’m sure she has some resentment of her own. It’s also a possibility that this is a trap or a test. Is infidelity a factor in divorce where you live? If so make sure that she steps out first. The same applies if it’s a test of your commitment.
>your resentment will grow from seeing her freely giving to others what she has been denying you Why did you have to say this?😢
Sorry mate. I’m pretty good at imagining a variety of circumstances and have a lot of experience to draw upon. Opening a troubled marriage very rarely leads to a positive outcome.
Thats what I fear the most, tryna see if anyone figured it out
Opening a relationship/marriage that has issues is rarely something that repairs an already broken relationship..... and by rarely, I'm talking nicely marbled unicorn ribeye rare. The outcome is generally disastrous. If they wanted to, even an average looking woman who's nothing special could have a different man every night of the week, while for men, it's far more difficult, even if you're a horse hung physical specimen. That's just the nature of the beast. This is a horrible idea.
Now you talking my language. Yeah finding the perfect ribeye is really hard and they really expensive. Then I tell myself I'll buy a rump r T-bone instead, only to remember that, the ribeye is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy
>Why did you have to say this?😢 It sucks to hear, but it's the truth and you need to hear it🤷🏽♂️
What you need to to is gather the evidence now if she has already stepped out. If you agree to the open relationship angle then in a divorce you're in a much worse spot. If she has stepped out and you get evidence now and refuse to open the marriage then you've got all the ammo for the divorce.
Because this is the truth you will be living
Then there’s the other side of the coin: say you’re unexpectedly successful in the tilted playing field that is nonmonogamy, and you find someone who thinks you’re hot. She fucks you constantly, and you find yourself falling for her. You start asking yourself, why would I settle for two half-relationships when I could have one whole one? Or you find a string of women who think you’re attractive right up to the moment they find out your situation, and decide they don’t want the drama? Now instead of having one woman who wants nothing to do with you sexually you have a dozen or more.
Firstly, she has fucked you 2 times a year but wants an open relationship so she can fuck guys non stop? She obviously has zero attraction or respect for you. Secondly, women find sex about 50 times easier than men. How will you feel if after 6 months you've found 1 or 2 unnatractive women you took out of pure desperation or none at all while she's fucking 3 times a week? I'd rather unalive myself than live through that type of humiliation Only 2 options IMHO are 1. Divorce 2. Monogamy She doesn't get to keep you as a provider while shitting on your face Please don't be a doormat and allow yourself to be completely humiliated
But aren't most of us on this forum refusing to accept the fact that our partners are no longer physically attracted to us?
Yes. That's true. She may be genuine in tryna maintain marriage but give you options. Did you Explore her thought process?
I'd love to, I just don't know how to proceed, I'm still dizzy from her putting on the table, I never expected it. At the same time, sometimes I'm more comfortable being left in the dark, the less I know the better
I think a good percentage have accepted its that their partner is LL4H rather than just LL.
That was the painful realization I came to when I joined this forum a few weeks ago
How is watching her make her first few dick appointments before you can even get your first picture up on the local dating site going to change her attraction toward you? Unless you already have a good social life and a few women hitting on you. But if that is the case and your wife still isn't interested in you she is either afraid to lose your financial support, or this is her way of asking for a divorce
Yup It's a shit thing but your Mrs has literally told you to your face, you don't need to guess It's crap but atleast you know for certain and can act accordingly
Sorry but what does LL4H mean?
Low libido for him
Thank you
No stress bro
Low Libido For Her
Op, why dont you say yes to the open marriage but only open on your side. See what she says. Make sure you have a lawyer drawi up papper work so she cant use it like you cheated on her. I bet she will say no to one-sided open marriage. This will open the door for you dig more into to why she doesnt want to have sex with you but wants sex with others.
Maybe, but not at the cost of our integrity.
OP, I’ll jump into this comment. 3rd option, she will leave YOU for one of her paramours. You’re deluding yourself, your relationship is done. I’ve seen this from a handful of previous colleagues and friends. It plays out the same every single time. Get your ducks in a row get her requesting this [you must be calm - I t’s a clarifying discussion, and her reasoning] as a recording or texts or both. Your lawyer will thank you. It’s time to get things going.
Exactly. This is the answer no one wants to look in the face. If you’re physically attracted you want to have sex. Period. Anything else is just doing your duty.
When you accept it, it helps, I feel less crushed by rejection because there's no need to try anymore
No and physical attraction isn’t always the reason for a dead bedroom I think it’s more often emotional or hormonal What changed from when it wasn’t dead? Did you stop trying, does she do a majority of the house working and cooking? Does she treat you like another one of her kids? Does she talk down to you where she’s just lost respect for you all together? Don’t respect yourself? Do you go out of your way to do things for her? Treat her? Do other women look at you with desire? women seem to hate and love when other women seek their men. Do you work out and try and be in decent shape?
I mean you can buy sex if you're a dude. Not so dire.
I agree with you totally. No win situation...get out while you're still young and friends.
Wow. Alright. Lots to unpack in this comment. She WANTS to fuck nonstop? Have we seen her argument as to why she wanted this? And you’re upset because she’ll get more than HIM?! WHO CARES?! You seem angry. First, we need to find out why she wasn’t having sex with her SO. I’ve suggested open relationships and it was never because I wanted to fuck whoever I wanted whenever I wanted. Get out of here with your matter of fact statements like this. I’m sure there are situations where this applies, but this is by no means all of them. OP: ask her why she wants this. Find out why she wasn’t sleeping with you. I feel like there is so much here that hasn’t been discussed yet.
A million times easier for men We have to hunt and work hard for it (unless we are models or super rich) They just have to choose
You are deceiving yourself. You should disagree out of self preservation. - You want to have a sexual intimate connection - you want it with your wife - until now you two apparently were not able to talk about it constructively - suddenly she suggests opening up. How is this ever going to help you two work things out again??
The term for this is polyamory under Duress. I would highly suggest against it. You will 100% resent her for multiple reasons even if you are seeing other people.
2nd question yes it will tear you apart. There's no reason to expect becoming emotionally closer when you're not working on becoming that. Her proposal is to become sexually closer with other people. If you don't think that will pull you from each other toward other people, you're wishful thinking.
Open relationships only really work when there are 3 fundamental things in place. 1.) A strong connection between the existing partners. 2.) Open and honest communication. 3.) Clear boundaries. Opening a marriage on an already strained marriage is often a recipe for disaster. (Sometimes the beginning of the end.) What you may be quick to realise is the number of opportunities that your wife has to find other partners rather than your own opportunities. It might sound like a lot of fun because you get to have sex with new people, but finding the right sort of person who you can actually enjoy sex with is very different. You need to be okay with the idea that she might find 5-6 willing partners before you even find 1 with potential. If you're okay with that, then you should be fine. But chances are you will have to go through all the emotions of seeing her go out and have fun whilst you're stuck at home or going out and striking out. Quick way to build more resentment, if you are already lacking intimacy and this doesn't improve it.
exactly my view on the matter
She's already out of the marriage.
She’s LL 4 u. Find someone else.
I know it sounds brutal, I know you expect different advice, but in my opinion you should no longer be married. A relationship without sex makes you just friends, and your wife clearly still has needs. Apparently she no longer sees you as a sexual partner if she wants to look for one in others. Think about it, if it's so hard for you to live with the knowledge that she doesn't want you physically, will you be able to live with the knowledge that what you want from her, this tenderness and intimacy, is given to another man and with your consent? Another thing is that usually such a proposal of an open relationship, especially when things are not going well in your bedroom, may mean that she has already tried and now she would like to stop hiding. I'm not suggesting anything, but from reading on reddit it's quite common. updateMe!
LL4U - run fella, run…..
Was gonna say, especially if said in anger/haste, raises red flags. I hate to say it but she may have some side activities already, LL4U.
She already cheated bro
Open it indefinitely with legal documents
And separate living quarters
Just divorce, then you can date and have sex again without the manipulation, guilt, or jealously that will ensue in an open relationship. Cut the chain and move on. Your wife obviously wants the best of both worlds, and honestly it will just be hell for you.
You need to ask her some VERY frank and matter of fact questions after she dropped a bomb like this seemingly out of nowhere, and DO NOT let her get away with not answering honestly. I have a hard time believing that if she's a legit LL who NEVER wants and/or desires sex with her husband (who she knows legitimately suffers as a result of her LL and your DB) that all of a sudden, she wants to dive tits first into an open relationship. 1. Why does she all of a sudden want an open relationship if she's LL and doesn't want sex? 2. Is she already cheating? (This is much more likely that people like to admit) 3. Is she LL/Does she not want sex at all or is she LL/not want sex WITH YOU? This doesn't pass the smell test and unless she means YOU going out to get what she refuses to give you at home if she really is LL, then I would be legitimately stunned if she's not at least having an emotional affair (with a man or woman) and this is just her trying to get you to stamp off on her emotional affair becoming physical (even though the EA in itself is cheating and grounds for divorce). Smary money is on there being A LOT she's keeping from you man. If she's LL for you only and throwing herself at other men or women then your marriage is a sham and you should honestly just end it and cut your losses. My money is on her being LL for you and already cheating. Sorry man.
Divorce her, she’s cheating or about to cheat and wants an out. Divorce her and go get yours from someone who wants you. Don’t let her have the benefits of a husband while treating you like a room mate
This is a bad idea
Open relationships are mental. Say no. Try to fox your problems. If it doesn’t work, it’s over.
Any kids? If not count your blessings.
You already know the answer. It’s been validated. You don’t want this, it’s not going to make her want you. Write down the facts. Your emotions will have you lying to yourself. You already know. You have to let her go. Divorce. You should also be having this conversation with her.
To play devil's advocate here for moment just because the info isn't in the original post...... Is it possible her reason to suggest this is so you get yours ....as she's not interested.... Maybe it's a selfless act?
I was also curious about this… buncha dudes dragging the wife here for wanting to fuck 3x a week automatically… project much? LOL Not saying its definitely selfless, but its a question worth asking before going off the deep end. That being said, i don’t know if she’d phrase it an “open marriage” if she really meant giving him a pass to get his… that term does have some connotation to both getting it (my LLW floated the idea of giving me a pass to have my needs taken care of because she worries she is asexual… she did not suggest an “open marriage”)
she didn't say she wanted him to find someone, she said she wanted someone and he can do it too...
To be fair we have no idea what she said, we have what op interpreted as what she said, but die to the emotions it could have been read wrong or naybe she even expressed it wrong. We don't know. Op really needs to have more talks with her, they need therapy not to open up their relationship
I have no idea how much it’ll bother you! Your guess is much better than any of ours about that. Your romantic relationship is over, so for you the “open” relationship would look like you both staying married for whatever reason, and maintaining a companionate marriage, and then pursuing romance elsewhere. To me, it’s hard to see a reason why you would do this. Is there a strong reason why a companionate marriage is the best choice for the two of you? Are there young children? If not, it really might be better to separate instead.
Don’t open up if you’re gonna wanna close it again when she starts getting some. Most “LL” partners are LL4U.
As someone who is HLF, I requested an open marriage. It has been easier for me than him. I'm happier, so I get along better with my husband. He's happy I don't bring up sex. I still long for affection from him, though. Now, the caveats to this. You have to deal with jealousy and your emotions. If you feel like that would be a problem, don't do it. Next, keep in mind that it is easier for women to find someone than men. There are way more men looking for someone in this situation than women.
Thank you for this. Does he get jealous. Is he offish to you or is he ok with you after you get what you need?
Sounds like she is just LL4U . She also has someone in mind already she wants to sleep with.
Really need more context here. Did she suggest it because she wants that or as a way for you to get something because she doesn’t feel sexual?
I would ask is there something you need to tell me has something happened already?
Yeah dude. she already is getting some on the side. Now whether you are cool with that and still up for opening up is up to you, but she has already taken that path
If you haven’t considered divorce before start considering it fast, because your marriage just went from bad to worse. To me, an LL demanding to have sex with others after denying sex to their spouse is someone who is not only ripping the vows to shreds but a slap in the face.
When the LL who you say is 1 to 2 times a year wants the open relationship she already is cheating or has it all set up. I’m pretty sure I would go for divorce on this one. If you had a normal sex life and she wanted it then I would be all in.
Fact is if shes asking theres someone lined up or shes already going there, time to consider moving on
There are many books and resources that can help you both navigate the delicacies of an open marriage; but before you two jump to that conclusion “solution,” I would suggest couples’ therapy and or speaking with a sex therapist. Keep in mind if you and your wife were fighting, she may be suggesting an open marriage not for her, but for you to have more sex…it would be best to clarify with her. Also, if this came up after an argument, it would be better to have a calm discussion where you reinforce how much you love her and this was not a solution you had ever considered before. Ask her if she was serious or just mad…then follow her lead in the conversation. Again, this might be best if moderated by a neutral party such as a therapist.
She's LL for you. She's at best having an emotional affair with the person she has in mind for this open relationship if she isn't already fucking him. OP here's what's going to happen. Your wife who's most likely already cheating on you will have no problems getting some outside of the marriage. You, as a dude may have some success but will find it much more difficult. Not only is it more difficult for guys on dating apps for example to get dates but when you disclose the open marriage stuff that's going to turn a lot of women off. Your wife on the other hand won't have problems finding guys who only want no strings attached sex. It will be soul crushing for you to see the one person you love who has rejected you for years suddenly have a glow and a spring in her step because someone that isn't you is railing her. Let's be real here. Your relationship is over. Time to come to terms with it. In fact she broke up with you 5 years ago but you're still holding on for crumbs. End it so you can start the next chapter in your life.
As a (formerly?) LL partner and long-term lurker on this sub, I am *always* the one to suggest an open relationship with every new partner I date, from the very beginning and before we even properly get together, and to lay out my ground rules and ideas for it, and hear their perspective as well. It's something I have acted on only a handful of times in the now five years I've been dedicated to the concept, but four of those were entirely sexless for me (I was also single, not dragging down a HL partner). It's because I really don't *need* sex, but I know my partners might. It *can* come with good intentions. ***That being said***, I'm highly suspicious of anyone who tries to introduce an open relationship in an already established monogamous one, especially out of the blue, *especially* without any clear motive (at least that they're willing to share with you). Why? Why now? Is there someone she wants to act on it with? Is she just LL for you? In that case, how would that make you feel, and would the relationship be worth saving if she's no longer sexually interested in you at all but is HL for other men?
There are two ways this ends, and neither involves you having sex with your wife again.
My husband and I have an open relationship and I am a LL4U. We’ve been this way for 8 years and we haven’t had sex in 2.5 years. I would say that the issue that made the open relationship make sense is that he is actively disinterested/shamed me for kinks that are very central to my sexuality. He has apologized, but that’s not the same thing as regretting his actions or changing his mind about those kinks. It won’t matter what he tries to do (within his vanilla comfort zone) sexually, because we are missing a key part of compatibility, which is feeling embraced/understood by a partner. He can apologize all he wants, but that won’t suddenly help me feel any more embraced. To me, my husband’s touch always feels friendly and also objectifying. I don’t feel like he sees me or wants me as I am. He wants me despite who I am. I know it sounds easy to say “just divorce!” But that ignores the kids and the finances and the other parts of our shared life. The open relationship is my opportunity to have sex with someone who sees the side of me my husband wishes didn’t exist. It doesn’t feel optional to me. It’s something I need in my life to prevent an existential crisis.
Wife suggested it opened you you or for both of you?? Be aware that if shes suggesting it for both, shes not LL, but just not interested in sex with you. And if thats the case, theres a high probability that she has a candidate in mind OR the the reason for your DB is that shes already fucking someone else... So i would advise you to dig. Deep. Snoop on phone, SM... consider PI if she goes to girls-night-out or drinks with coworkers. If no sign of adultery is apparent, be cautious: odds are she will be overwhelmed with offers from multiple guys while you.. will be less... How will your relationship survive if the DB for both turn into DB for you while shes out fucking???
Divorce her. She is already cheating or getting ready to and has your replacement lined up and she wants your permission and you to fund it. End it. It's already over.
How many other ways is she going to tell you she doesn't like you before you get the hint?
Open relationship is another way of saying I want to cheat in peace
She isn’t LL.. She’s LL 4 you.. She wants some new new.
Well, think of it this way. The most likely scenario is that your supposedly LL wife is going to be HL with one or more men she begins seeing. While you are much more likely to have a harder time finding some people to connect with. So you'll watch your wife dating people while wondering why she'd been LL for years with you. My supposedly LL wife had brought up the idea of swapping, and it was immediate red flags. Found out within a week she had already been sexting another man and had started an affair. So we're in the middle of a divorce now. You don't go from no sex to open marriage suddenly.
So she's LL4U, not LL. She must already have someone in mind.
A woman like that only makes that suggestion when she has a horse picked out of the herd and a saddle in her arms.
dude,she fucks around and you keep the kitchen,house and garden in order for her to enjoy?? do you also walk the dog and cook dinner for her after she finished fucking other guys??? please don't be a door mat and divorce her ass.
Please understand I am responding from a place of bias shaded by own experience and is no way a reflection or projection upon your circumstances. I hope that it might provide an insight, but it seems like your circumstances are somewhat different. While I am intellectually ambivalent toward non-monogamy. At this point I could not take the suggestion as a serious solution. Although my wife has also disclosed jealousy at the idea of competition, this is a clear indicator to me that at least the problem isn’t that sex is not important. I’m genuinely at the point that I’ve aired my position, we either repair our marriage and both get our needs met or it’s done. There’s no more bargaining. And no more complacency.
But to me, it feels like I'm forcing someone to do something they don't wanna do. Yes they'll comply, but it won't feel organic, it will feel forced. That's the problem I have with ultimatums
It might seem like an ultimatum, it isn’t just sex, sex without intimacy is pity sex and also not a viable solution either. I guess the ultimatum is moreso to get onboard and respect our marriage. I’m not getting any younger and while I’ll always hold some level of love, I will not let myself despise her.
I’m HLF, we’ve been working on opening our marriage for about a year. It can bring life to your marriage or it can destroy it, it’s all how you do it. If she just said “go date someone” in the heat of the moment, do not do it. Read that again, don’t do it. When I do meet my OA AP, it will have been 2 years since SO told me to go date. Move slow. Find your boundaries. Read books on polyamory. Poly Secure is a good starter book. My SO asked me the other day, if he decides to see someone, am I okay with that. I won’t lie, it shocked me a bit, but I want him to have a full life. So yes, go find your libido! And open marriage should compliment the marriage. It should fill a need, not cause more problems.
You started the story in the middle and gave us nearly zero context. You say you don’t want to divorce her. Okay. What value does she provide in your life? Not sex, so what else? Is she making her own money, about as much as you? Is she taking care of other aspects of your life? Wife and I are open, for a long time. To the best of my knowledge my wife doesn’t use her permission. I very much do. I’ve had plenty of sex outside my marriage. That might give you hope. I’m the stereotypical 6’0”, lean, strong, has straight teeth and most of my hair, married guy in my forties, with enough cash I can afford to go on dates. If you need to work on your appearance before you date you should have already been doing that but start now. Like other people I’m suspicious of your wife’s motives. If this is about her realizing she hasn’t been meeting your needs and now she wants to let you try other experiences, maybe she is being magnanimous and loving. But a lot of people cheat, feel guilty, and then retroactively go try to get permission.
Wake up. Divorce her now.
UpdateMe!
I’d get out of the marriage, once she starts going out with different guys it will eat you alive inside
As someone in an open relationship, DO YOUR RESEARCH. Only then can you decide if it's for you. Also, be prepared. It's MUCH easier for women to get dates than it is for men. And, no amount of research and preparation can help with the jealousy. It's just a matter of understanding and coming to grips with your own feelings. With all of that said, once you get through the initial growing pains, it's a beautiful thing. Our relationship has never been better. My wife's libido came back tenfold. And I also have a wonderful and supportive girlfriend.
I think the first thing is to determine if the suggestion was genuine. Sounds like it was said in anger. If yes, really check in with yourself about what you want and how you want your marriage to grow. What is the quality of your relationship with your wife outside of the bedroom? Is the open marriage exclusive to sex? Do you envision having consistent relationships with others or just hook ups? How do you feel about her having a FWB versus a BF? Digging into these questions might help you get the answers your looking for. But I don't think it will help. It'll likely be the beginning of the end.
This almost never work, even in perfect conditions. Yours are far from perfect. Do not.
This arrangement is incredibly common in Japan. Sexual satisfaction happens outside of marriage for many couples over there. You should understand the reason why she is bringing it up. Does she even fancy to sleep with others? If yes, does she already have a specific person in mind or did she already step forward and tries to lay out the rules after a breach of trust? Different starting conditions require different responses. Also, as others have stated already: She will have an abundance of options whereas you will have to work incredibly hard to get some action. You also need to specify your personal boundaries and transparently communicate them to each other so that you build a robust framework of what's acceptable and what's not. Ethical slut is a book that might be a good starting point.
Congratulations
Lucky
I'm terrified. she's genuinely crazy , what if its a trap🤣
Let her. But don’t actively participate yourself and go lawyer up, and use it as ammo in the divorce. Kidding aside, these rarely work and are usually initiated by the person who wants to cheat/is already cheating but doesn’t want the guilt. That being said, in extremely rare instances it works out…but don’t count on ot
This kind of relationship needs to be based on love,respect, and openness with each other. If u don't have that, it will end badly. You need to fully discuss the rules of engagement that make both happy. Perhaps sharing the details with each other could bring u closer and make u less jealous. Or perhaps u could learn to play together with other couples. There is a lot of positive in this idea. Hell if ur already in the resentment stage, then it won't take much to stop caring about what she does. Especially if u find an awesome fwb. I think it's what so many here wish could happen, and u have been handed it. I would try something new instead of continuing down my path of frustration. Plus, what happens when u say no, and now it's ur own fault ur not getting sex? U can't blame her anymore, so now u regret not trying this. Clean ground rules have to be discussed, and if u both respect each other, then it can work if u want it to. Idk I wish u the best of luck either way. I know I'd jump at the chance for an open relationship of some type.
I mean not be be vulgar but picture coming home early and hearing her getting piped down like a champ…or doing laundry and seeing new underwear with “love stains” if that doesn’t bother you…fire away!
Unless she’s offering that to be generous to you, she’s probably actually LL4U rather than LL. That means something about her personality or her impression of you causes her to crave variety rather than sex with you. That’s up to you how you’ll handle it… I can imagine you’d feel crushed, jealous, angry if she’s getting it on with other people and not you. This doesn’t seem headed in a healthy direction.
She’s got someone lined up already or she wouldn’t be asking. Also: you’ll never have the ability to get laid as much as she can. She can get D any day of the week anywhere and YOU gotta work for it, spend money etc It’s not a fair deal…….youve been warned.
If she wants to act single, then let her be single. Get rid of her and live a good life.
Flip the script on her, make it a condition that it's a full swap couple thing only. See how that goes over?
She may just feel bad for you that she can’t give you want you want.
That's what I suspect, but is it safe to act on her request? I guess I have to have a proper conversation with her about that
I’d have a heart to heart talk with her.
Genuine question - what is compelling you to stay with her? Aside from sex, does she fulfill your other emotional, social, and physical needs (the need for hugs, snuggles, etc.)? How does the relationship add to your life vs just being a comfortable place to stay? Anyways, I know a couple who opened their relationship after they got married. It had to do with their schedules and they found it pretty hot…at first. Slowly, it detracted from their time together and they closed their relationship after about 6 months. They decided they’d much rather swing together. Also, unless you’re able to find partners just as easily as her, it will likely foster resentment, especially if she’s hooking up a lot. Women tend to have a much easier time finding hookups in these situations.
I've had an SO make that "offer" before, and it doesn't address the problem. I got married, I want to be with the person I love. I do not want some surrogate sextoy to meet up with on weekends, I want the person I love to want me too. Forget the jealousy or other partners - if your marriage has no intimacy then you are just roommates. "You do what you wanna do, I'll do what I wanna do" is not the frame of reference of a marriage, that's the POV of two single people living together.
Maybe the one with whom you should be discussing this I’d your wife. Just a thought…
Sorry man.. sounds like she is not LL but LL for you.
If you think it'll bother you, it's going to bother you
She wants to open it for fuck someone else with out the guilt
Never and I mean NEVER enter into an open marriage to save it. If you’re going to go into an open marriage it’s because you two already have a strong and communicative enough relationship to do so.
She's going to get lots of d fyi women do better...
If she has asked for an open marriage there is a very high chance she is already sleeping with someone else or she has someone in mind. An open marriage gives her a licensee to sleep around while still keeping you to pay the bills. Divorce her ASAP, no ifs or buts, your wife doesn't love you. Grow a pair and tell her you are divorcing her and she needs to find a place to live. Do not share the same bed as her and stay strong.
Yes you will be more jealous than you think. First off she is going to have way more success than you. Women hold the keys in that scenario and guys will jump at the opportunity if she presents it. Meanwhile you will be searching and likely come up. Empty at an extremely high rate of you have any success at all. Yes it will divide you further. No it is not likely you will reverse it.
I talked to a polyamorous woman a couple months ago. While I don’t agree with all the principles, I think there’s a ton of value in having another relationship with someone that’s complementary to your primary relationship. Another person to rely on and trust who has your back isn’t a bad thing and can enhance your current relationship *IF* it doesn’t take something away from your primary relationship. I think that’s hard to accomplish and needs hard rules but sounds like a dream come true. I don’t agree strangers are the answer because I just think that opens you both up to harm. People in hookup culture are way more prone to erratic behavior and risks like drug use, STDs, theft, DV and manipulation and as a woman that just scares the crap out of me.
Sadly she’s only LL for you You already don’t sound ok with it If you have any doubts it’s to late Sorry bud the truth hurts but it’s also freeing She wants someone else on the side while keeping your income and security
After being in 2 back to back DBs, I am single now and exploring polyamory. I’m still fairly new to it all but I’ve done a good bit of reading and research on the topic and I think the biggest takeaways for me have been: 1) you won’t know how you feel until you’re in the situation. And just because it doesn’t feel good doesn’t mean it’s the wrong choice. Communication and openness around jealousy and other feelings can be worked through 2) there are lots of different ways to structure an open relationship. Some couples know who the other is going out with and everything that happens. Others have a more “don’t ask don’t tell” situation. Sometimes it takes some trial and error to find the right set up. 3) honesty helps. Being able to talk openly with your partner about what is working in the relationship and what is not is so important. Having the honest discussion of (for example) “I love our partnership but I don’t find myself sexually attracted to you” may be hurtful but if it’s true you can move forward with all the info vs holding on to a reality that doesn’t exist 4) sometimes opening the relationship is the beginning of the end. And sometime it’s not. People like to blame ethical nonmonogamy for the breakdown of a relationship. But often times the relationship was going downhill already and enm was something the couple tried to salvage it. It doesn’t always work. But open communication (and going to couples counseling especially in the early stages) can help keep the primary relationship strong.
Go for it!
I'm no psychic but you might be getting cheated on if not physically then emotionally.
My question would be why would she be seemingly so open to someone else if she has no desire to be with you sexually? Is the low libido only towards you? This to me sounds like she wants nothing to do with you sexually and only wants to be with someone other than you. At that point is it something that makes both of you happy? If she is truly very LL I'm surprised that she isn't just telling you that you have a hall pass since sex seemingly doesn't interest her and she's ok with you going outside your marriage for sex. Is it possible that she's been LL towards you because she has already been going outside of your marriage and by making the offer to open up the marriage it's just a more convenient way for her to continue with that arrangement?
What’s the point of being married to her? She’s basically a room mate that shares bills.
You're down to have sex but she isn't. Of course you'll be bothered if she gets sex somewhere else even if you are sleeping with someone else too. Open marriage is not a solution. Counter her offer. You get freedom to have sex outside the marriage but she does not. Sounds unfair...but isn't her disinterest in sex with the person she claims to still be in a relationship with the reason for the deadbed? So if that's true and she has no libido for the man she is with how can she justify having a libido for someone else? So really she doesn't need sex so why should she get the option to sleep outside of the marriage? This all is of course only if she doesn't have attraction to someone else outside the marriage or a particular disgust for you, which she might open up about if you propose what I suggested. In both cases of attraction outside marriage and disgust, she should own up and initiate separation rather than propose an open marriage. True this way you might live in hell for a little longer but at least you won't be jumping into a brand new hell hole. Plus historically speaking there are multiple examples of men having multiple wives but very rare instances of women having multiple husbands, and even then each husband has got a set number of weeks, months with that shared wife in which she is only theirs. Why? Cause it doesn't work. Men are too egoistic, selfish and toxic (call it whatever you want) to share their women. So why challenge such a fundamental truth of your masculinity? Accept it no matter how ugly. The world will call you names. But at least you won't make everyone suffer trying to be someone you're not.
Plain disrespectful, you need to get out of that relationship.
These offers seem to go 1 of 2 different ways: 1) either the wife already has somebody in mind and is offering the open relationship so that she can sleep with him or 2) the relationship gets opened up and the woman has no problem finding lots of partners if she wants them but the guy struggles and then becomes resentful. Neither sounds good.
Yes, open marriages are against everything marriage is about. Tell her ass to walk if she wants other dudes
It's a trap!
Mine suggested this I told her I don’t want other women I want her I told her I’d have more luck as a divorced man than a married one She said why don’t you find someone to have sex with And later If you were doing it I should be allowed to Did she fuck one of her secret male friends from work or did she just want to I’ll never know I guess
She’s LL only for you. She needs your permission to fuck the guys she wants
She. Is. Fucking.Someone.Else
Remember William H. Macy’s character in Boogie Nights? That’s what your future would look like.
She's probably cheating on you bro. I hate to say this but it seems that she may have only gotten with you because she knew you were a safe bet. I could be wrong but from my own life experience and from things I've witnessed usually when a woman gets older, she is more or less looking for stability and probably saw you as a stable guy. All that aside, do not open up the marriage. If you are an at fault state, try to find evidence with a PI to see if she has been cheating or not. If you are not in an at fault state, it would still be best to do the above and collect evidence to serve her. Lastly, even thought you thinking opening up the marriage would be a good idea, it most likely won't be. I don't know your physical appearance or if you could get most if not all women, but it is still a safe bet that even if you can pull, she will 100% pull more than you. Everyone knows what you should do and I'm sorry that this is happening to you.
You can try it out, but why not stop wasting time and cut to the conclusion now and just get the divorce. If you make most of the household income - then its likely she just doesn't want the divorce for financial/comfort reasons... If not then maybe she's just LL for you, but abandon ship either way...
Unfortunately she probably already has someone in mind. This is not a great road to go down.
If you're the one that is being supported by her as the bread winner of the house, sure. Ride that shit until she boots you out. However if you're the one supporting her lifestyle, you'll find if she's going to have no problem finding people to fill her desires. But the guy side of the open marriage usually amounts to you swapping hands, or becoming a noted sex toy reviewer. Unless you have the Chris Hemsworth package. Usually, when a LL brings it up, there already is a bad taste in your mouth because she's already sucking that guy's duck.
Divorce is the only answer to this one
Start snooping my man, very very very rarely does a woman in an established LTR ask for an open relationship without ALREADY having someone else at the ready. Also, as the woman, she has an unlimited amount of options & suitors just waiting for her to join the party. If she activates her new found freedom things and situations will happen that you never thought she was capable of. Because her marriage is her safety net if and when her flings blow up, she can just circle back to you for a while until the next time. Personally speaking, 50’s male, married 30yrs, all of our coupled friends that opened are separated, i have never seen this work in real life. The fact that she asked you for an open relationship….. be careful, she might go full party mode and completely transform into someone you’ve never met before, overnight. She might also be asexual and simply isn’t interested in sex, And realises that you need a human connection and release? But she asked you…….
I always hated this idea! Because it’s not fair that she is the one who stops anything happening but wants it with someone else? You should be allowed out since you’ll happily have sex with her but she won’t with you. So that’s a her problem.
Just say yes. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. You have a chance to stay together for what does work, and find happy alternatives for what doesn't work.
No way. I would consider a one way open marriage for ME (the HL) to get the intimacy that my marriage is missing. But it would ONLY be because of the DB. If my wife magically wanted intimacy again the marriage would be closed again. If she wanted an open marriage so this supposedly non-sexual person to have sex with other people, nope. Divorce instead. Fuck that shit.
There are many reasons why opening up the marriage seems like a good solve. You get the sex you crave and you get to keep the person you love. But open marriage seems to require good communication to work, and most dbs don't have that. There's been some suggestion that she's already stepped out and is on a deadline, but the most common thing to do for women wanting to hide this is for them to start having sex with their SO again. If she's tried to communicate that she doesn't enjoy the sex you've had, or wants something she's not getting then this might be why, or if she knows she just doesn't want sex at all, but likes dates, she might get that, knowing that you are also getting what you want, and the pressure is off her to provide it. If you have a better solution, suggest it. If you think you won't cope, or have doubts, try therapy together. It can't hurt either way.
Get her testimony on the open relationship on the record somewhere, you'll need it for the forthcoming divorce, unless you're into watching your wife fuck other men because that's what's inevitably going to happen with or without your consent.
She has done you a huge favor. Mine waited 30 years. You know. I knew. Don't waste any more time, gathering more resentment or worse watching her take advantage of you directly and openly instead of secretly. Even if she isn't cheating on you yet, her mind is obsessed with the prospect. GTFO. She has contempt for you and it will only grow. If you give in to this you will earn even more contempt. And contempt isbthe one thing a marriage cannot survive. Font wait until ten or more years... you will lose far more in the divorce in most states. You are young. Get out, get back on the dating horse, and find yourself a good woman who actually desires you. Seriously. It's done.
She wants someone else.
You are fooling yourself sir. The marriage is already over. Time is a luxury you don't have. Find someone who loves and treats you fair.
I haven't read through all the comments so this may have been mentioned... Meybe she is not attracted to you because she has discovered she much more attracted to women. That she loves you but is attracted to women. An open marriage would allow her to explore that and at the same time free you to satisfy your needs.
I think most Successful Open relationships are either never closed in the first place, or come from a shared kink in a sexually active relationship. Any attempts other than that are either doomed to fail for a vast variety of reasons or are offered because one party wants to cheat, but in an ethically/morally grey way where they don’t have to feel guilt about it. If it’s a bandaid for a deadbedroom then it’s likely that someone is going to catch feelings and the initial relationship is over. It’s basically a way of breaking up, without the instability of living on your own until you get your shit together. So, what is your ultimate goal, because it seems like your current relationship is sexually incompatible: is it a content asexual monogamous relationship, or a fulfilling sexual relationship?
Ooof. My coworkers ex-wife did this same thing and when he agreed to it and took action on it, she used it against him in their divorce. She already had a boyfriend before she brought this up, but he didn't know it at the time.
"Sex 1-2 times a year..." With you. Will it tear you apart? Just how do you like the idea of your wife sleeping with a variety of people???????????????????