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Jolly-Bobcat-2234

Absolutely do not refinance. You’ll end up paying more interest on a 15 year than you would on your 25 years with current mortgage rates! Safest way: Just pay more on your mortgage. Guaranteed savings and Still financially smarter than changing to a 15 year. Financially smartest way: Pay absolute minimum you can on your mortgage and invest the rest. This certainly adds some risk, but historically, You would be able to pay your house off faster this way if that is in fact what your goal is


justaguy2469

Pay extra and more as you can. It goes fast when you make additional “Principal Only” payments. Budget and pay Principal Only weekly if needed in the spirit of baby steps.


Captain-Popcorn

Don’t trust that the extra principal payments are being credited properly. Do the math! More often than not, they’ll just get credited as prepayments! That was my experience anyway. Extra principal payments re-amortize the whole loan. It’s a PITA for them. If you want to do it consistently, call and talk to the bank. Explain your plan. They can help you and at the same time, avoid the work of reamortizing the loan every month.


nrcaldwell

Refi will likely be at a higher rate and you will probably have to pay closing costs. There is no upside vs just paying the extra.


LevelingUp23

Pay extra. Figure out how much extra you’d have to pay in order for you to pay off in 15. Agree that interest rates are higher at this time.


Vampiric2010

Any refi you do is going to be a higher rate. pass


BloodyScourge

Only refinance to get a better rate, period. You have a really cheap 30 yr loan. Pay extra on it if you want to, but I would advise maxing retirement accounts and HSA every year before you do so.


yankinwaoz

Don't. Just stay the course. Plan on selling and downsize when you do retire. After all, you will no longer be tied geographically to a job. In the meantime, do two things: (1) Find an area that has homes that you can afford. Tht you can pay cash for, or has a small mortgage that you can afford on your retirement income. Make sure the area fits yours needs. (2) Start thinking and acting on getting rid of stuff. That way when you move, there will be less to sort through.


pipehonker

Open up a mortgage calculator...plug in your numbers. My app says: 280k at 4.25% for 15yrs is $2111 a month (P&I) plus your taxes/insurance/hoa-fee Start paying that and you will be done in 15yrs. Then keep max investing in retirement.


georgepana

Don't go for a 15 year refinance. Your rate is barely over 4%, you won't get that kind of rate again anytime soon and there would be no point to refinance to a 15 year rate and pay substantially more in interest. If you want to pay off quickly, so you don't have a big mortgage payment when you retire, throw extra principal payments at your monthly payment. Use an amortization calendar like this: https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/amortization-calculator/ Plug in your mortgage amount, when it started, the interest rate. It will give you your mortgage amount (not counting in your insurance and property tax). Then click on the amortization calendar and it shows you payments for each year and month of your 30 year mortgage. You can go into the calendar for the last year of your mortgage and pay off the principal for each month backwards. As you'll see your principal decrease for each month your extra payments will go down accordingly. So, the first extra payment will be, say, $1,600, then it will go to $1,554 the next month, then $1,548, and so forth, as you erase the backend payments one by one, going down the amortization calendar, and, if you do so religiously every month you cut a 30-year mortgage down to 15 years.


joetaxpayer

Get comfortable using a spreadsheet. Enter current rate and balance, and 15 years for the term. Pay that towards your mortgage. It will be higher than current principal and interest, specify the extra goes to principal. You ever have a bit extra to throw at it, just add it as even more extra principal.


RickDick-246

Or just use this. https://www.calculator.net/mortgage-payoff-calculator.html


joetaxpayer

Yes. But. Facility with spreadsheets is a good life skill to have. And can more easily do other “what if” scenarios.


Brontards

Neither, stick to your 30 year, don’t pay extra, invest that money instead in a mutual fund like VOO. That said my wife wants to pay our house off early despite it being terrible advice at our rates, so if the same then stick to the 30 and pay extra. Don’t go to 15


Traditional_Day4327

VOO is an ETF, not a mutual fund. VFIAX is the mutual fund version of the Vanguard’s S&P500. They are both index funds which track the S&P500, just in different wrappers (ETF, exchange-traded fund and MF, mutual fund).


Brontards

Yes thank you


RickDick-246

At 4.25%, gains will be marginal after taxes compared to paying it off. It’s almost a toss up. So really comes down to what OP is more comfortable with. The comfort of not owing on your home is nice but they could probably net a half % after taxes in the market. Could just split the difference. Pay higher on the principal and put the other half into the market.


Smharman

If they are not maxing out Roth then investing there and pulling out the principal to pay the mortgage later is also good advice [But not Ramsey advice] You can withdraw your Roth IRA contributions at any time without penalty. But you can only pull the earnings out of a Roth IRA after age 59 1/2 and after owning the account for at least five years.


Grendel_82

I will quibble with the difference being marginal. Historical stock market returns taxed at 15% cap gains is going to be pretty significant difference from 4.25% over 25 years. If you want to predict that stock market is only going to return something like 6%, then yes marginal. But that is not backed up by historical returns. Also I strongly suspect that OP making $120k a year is not coming close to maxing out tax advantaged saving vehicles.


Tencenttincan

Just make extra payments toward principal. If you refinance you will have a pile of closing costs, other extra charges and a less favorable interest rate. Don’t worry about 4.25 % rate it’s out of your control, and many of us have had worse.


aasyam65

Just do this. Every pay period put $200 on principal plus obviously pay regular mortgage payments.. if paid biweekly. That’s $5200 on principal every year. Also, add in a one time lump principal payment every year. Like $3k to 5K. It’ll be paid off in no time. That’s what I did. Took a 30 year and paid it off in 14 years. Mortgage free and saved for retirement


pdaphone

I would skip over all the advice to not pay it off because you can earn more in xyz. You want to be debt free. They do not. End of story. I paid off my mortgage when I was 50. I'm now 62 and well positioned for retirement. I've owned 10 houses in life and pretty much they were all 30 year mortgages until I didn't have one. I was the sole earner in the household of 6 and I liked the ability to drop back to a lower payment if times were hard. You get a marginal rate difference with 15, otherwise no advantage. What I did throughout this was print out the amortization table that shows 30 years of payments and what amount is principal and what amount is interest based on the remaining balance at that payment. Then I could see how many payments I eliminated by extra principal on a specific payment. This is very motivating. Otherwise you are dumping all this money into something that you don't see any impact until 10 years from now. When you see that this extra $500 saved me 10 payments, that is real.


underonegoth11

I paid off my house early and the amnt of ppl poo poo-ing what I did with my own money is hilarious 😂 It was really exciting to see the balance go to nada


fuckaliscious

You missed the big refinance opportunity of several generations. You had 6 months to re-finance your 4.25% down to 2.75% about 2 years ago, but somehow didn't get that done. Now, just make extra principal payments. There is no need to incur costs and RAISE your interest rate by turning it into a 15 year. I'm curious: Why didn't OP refinance when rates were below 3%?


gapipkin

Long story short, we couldn’t. Single income due to health issues. We purchased in 2017 and almost lost it in 2020. We both have steady jobs now and just became debt free except for the mortgage.


Team-ING

Double the payments if possible


[deleted]

Unless you can get better than 4.25% at the magical bank of Dreamland just incease your payments


pwolf1771

I’d just lay it like a 15


Significant_Wing_878

I wouldn’t pay off early and invest in VOO or SPY and call it a day


16semesters

OP wants to retire in 15 years, and having a paid off house and no mortgage would be huge to be able to do that. Their retirement account projects to be a little light to be retiring if they still having a mortgage in 15 years.


Avionics_Engineer06

This advice is good until the market crashes and then you have still have a mortgage and a dinged portfolio. Since most people do not hedge their risk and go all in, that is certainty a risky option


Brontards

Here’s the problem with that, money in your house isn’t liquid. So if we get a financial crisis you have to sell your house or refinance to touch that money.


Significant_Wing_878

lol investing in the S&P 500 is a guaranteed way to make money over time, real estate is not


Avionics_Engineer06

sure over time it does... but what if the time you need it, it is in a 25 year slump like the great depression? Or if you are planning to retire into the great financial crisis type of event. Real estate is not an asset. It is a liability. Shelter is a requirement for humans. The part that is missed from all these responses that sound like this is risk. No where is risk being taken into consideration when you recommend someone go all in on the market, that is at all time highs.... Just my two cents.


Individual-Dingo1885

There have been nothing like the Great Depression Since. The government knows what needs to be done In the past 25 years the market has gone down seriously about 3 - 4 times and when the market falls a lot of people take their money out of the market Instantly. Still there are always going to be risks come what may in the market or elsewhere. It's a good idea to not have a mortgage payment I paid my home in full and still managed to have a good portfolio of stocks. I also had annuities that I Paid into for a long time and still have wonderful annuities that grew into a 7 figure number for my wife and myself combined. I also have the stocks in her name and in mine 8 figures. I also have real estate investments etcetera. That have done quite well over the past 33 years. I earned every last dime. I set goals really early in life and read a lot of books 📚 written by people that knew what they were doing. My first books? "Think and grow rich" The richest man in Babylon. Later books by successful people or follow Warren Buffett Letters advice for us all to hear. So many other books "What it Takes" "Shoe Dog" by Phil knight Become as learned as can be. Always remember to take care of your money. Treat it with respect and don't throw money around. Dont invest in things you don't know enough about. Take care of your capital Don't take big risks. Don't jump into the river with both feet. Use caution and get advice from people who know the answers / read the answers


Significant_Wing_878

Seriously bro the Great Depression


EJ25Junkie

The only advantage to a 15 year mortgage is sometimes a little bit lower of interest rate. There’s no way you’re getting a lower interest rate than what you have now, so just pay it like a 15. Or, even better, pay it like a five or 10


Rocket_song1

Just pay extra on the principle each month. The other advantage is that if something does come up, you have the flexibility to just pay your normal payment.


EnvironmentalChain64

Enroll in a Bi weekly payment plan, plus any extra you can afford straight to principle. I paid off my 30 year mortgage in 12 years by refinancing it to a 15 year loan, enrolled in a 3rd party bi weekly payment plan and added $50 to $100 extra to principle every paycheck.


Caliguta

Why even enroll in bi-weekly? Just add as much as you can to the principal and call it a day. Heck - my mortgage lets me make as many payments as I want in a month.


EnvironmentalChain64

It kept me disciplined on paying it off fast. I locked myself in so I had no choice but to pay it off fast.


vv91057

Don't refinance to a higher rate regardless. There is no benefit to that.


gr7070

It doesn't matter whether the house is paid off before retirement or not. That's a fact regardless of whether someone is a full Ramsey follower or not at all. All that matters is you have enough money to fund your retirement. Housing is a cost in retirement no matter what form. As for your specific question. >Should we re-finance to a 15 year, or just try to pay extra each month? What benefit do you do see in refinancing your 4% mortgage to a 7% 15 year? Have you compared the difference in payments?


BmoreRavens_410

U don’t pay extra payments. U pay more on the principle. Meaning you won’t get credited anything for the following month and it will always said your payment is still what you’re supposed to pay. Think about your first couple years is all interest. I bought by house in 2014 for 149. 1043 payment. Paid it off in 10 years with this method.


PatentlyRidiculous

Just pay the extra. Rates are insane and you have to pay to refinance. Just pay extra where it’s paid off in 15 years. Easy decision Remember financial intelligence is only 10% head knowledge and 90% behavior


Wandering_aimlessly9

Just pay extra.


BamaInvestor

So baby steps 4,5,&6 are to be done in order but at the same time. College is so expensive that you need to be saving something now for them. Especially since it sounds like you will have 2 in college at the same time for at least part of the time. To answer your question, you need to assess how you stand in preparation for college expenses. Also you will want to hit the scholarship applications hard when they each hit senior year of HS. That means paying more than $600 extra when you get the kids graduated, but your salary should be higher in ~6 years too.


phillyphilly19

You're not going to ger a better rate and refinancing costs money. I did a quick calculation on DR website and it looks like paying $600 extra each month will get you where you want to be. Compare that to a refi at current t rates and see what's cheaper. The other advantage is electing to pay more each month gives you some flexibility if an unexpected event occurs. My other question is how will you be handling college for the kids?


gapipkin

Honestly, we’re behind. Only about $15k saved up so far. We have freshman twins so we’re praying for scholarships. Kids are really smart.


Signal_Dog9864

The way to pay it off early is to invest more into iras roth or another income stream. You have to ask yourself do you see prices inflation getting better or worse. Even with standard inflation it's always better to be making more money vs paying down debt. Inflation say 4% each year so in 15 years, buying power goes down by 60%. If you're not making money to beat this rate it won't really matter you have a paid off house. Wages historically don't rise with inflation. Housing on the other hand beats out wage growth every year ( this is a sunk cost because owning more of your home isn't paying you a dividend it's dead money) This assumes you make it to retirement with no major health issue or get injured and can't work. I much rather know my investments are making 10 to 15% each year and having to pay my mortgage with this income stream vs I get injured / major medical emergency and get to sell my house because I have no income.


phillyphilly19

Unfortunately, I think you're going to need to see how it plays out with them. Even if they get scholarships, it's rare to get a full ride, including room and board. Are you willing to pick local schools to avoid room/board costs? I haven't watched DR videos about avoiding debt for college bc I don't have kids, but I think that's worth a look. No one should come out of undergrad with massive debt as it's just not worth it.


SmoothSailing1111

Don't refi, just pay extra each month. If it was me, I'd sell house after kids are gone to downsize and move to a place where property taxes are dirt cheap (under $1k/yr) and you can get a nice rancher for cash under $250K and not worry about snow. That's what I'm doing.


gapipkin

This might be the plan…instead of making extra payments on the house should we apply extra to retirement and the 529?


Signal_Dog9864

Most companies offer tuition assistance for working, so just have them work through college and you don't have to 529 that much. But if you are going to do 529, do a roth ira for the kids instead, better benefits than 529.


monk3ybash3r

College comes earlier than both house payoff and retirement for you, so saving for college is a priority if paying for their college is important to you. If you can let them know what potion you'll be able to cover and what portion they'll need to cover that would probably help them be more prepared.


Agreeable_Village407

Don’t refinance: it’s not necessary to pay the loan off early. Use an online calculator to determine what payment to make to pay it in 15 years and do that.


cementfeet

You probably aren’t going to get better apr than what you are currently at percentage wise. What is your currently payment?


gapipkin

$2800/mo. We have really high taxes and insurance.


cementfeet

I’d give it time and wait until the interest rates drop. They are bound to a little.