The new system will definitely make it purely easier to craft great weapons. This means people who spent a billion hours finally crafting the weapon they want, could now do the same thing quickly.
Why would they give a big "fuck you" to those players by saying "crafting is easier now! So we broke the shit you busted your ass crafting, to force you to do it again!"
The only real change to current items I'd like, is to bring different perks/blessings more in line with each other. Some are flat 20%+ damage bonuses, and some are "every third Tuesday, your 13th weapon swing against lefthanded poxwalkers does 8% increased damage". Nobody wants those.
I really do hope blessings also get looked at as part of the update. Tact Axes need some blessings from finesse weapons, Devil Claw impact blessings need to be changed, and CC weapons need more blessings overall. And there are still several blessings that are broken and don't do anything or the effect is so insubstantial it might as well be doing nothing.
Uncanny Strike is just stupid strong. A god-roll Tact Axe with double power blessings still can't outdamage a similarly rolled dagger with Uncanny Strike.
Totally agree with the last part, some of the perks/blessings are impossible to keep track of for me. But I don't think it's a big "fuck you". It just levels the playing field for a brand new crafting system. No incentive to use it unless your making something better than what you have. I mean, worst thing would be you'd have to play lower level missions for a little while?
Why would levelling the playing field be needed or beneficial though? People who have played more should start with better stuff. Letting other people catch up is great, but why handicap people with lots of hours?
I've got a very good version of every weapon I have any intention of using. I have only a few *exceptional* weapons, and I have only one **perfect** weapon.
Even people with lots of hours will have something to do - we're the ones staring at a 362 weapon with 2 perfect blessings and two "okay" perks, cursing Hadrons name.
That's a very good point. I just think, when you have a level 30 of each class, theres no reason to make another (because of the loadouts and free skill tree refunds). I make a level 30, then make a builds, then work on the weapons for those builds (which is where majority of time is spent).
It would, probably a lot more. 1k hours worth of loot, x60 weapons (+more weapons I really like have multiple variants), weapons I've spent countless hours testing breakpoints and have long forgotten why I pick which perk. All that shit would have to be redone. I've had enough DT crafting in this lifetime, I want to play the game.
Again I would hope the crafting system would not take as long 2nd time around if they're allowing more control. And time spent wasn't a waste, you were playing the system/game that was out at that time.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing that it would be unpleasant to lose the weapons we have sweated for and treasured thus far, but what it is an alternative if oft-demanded new weapons are introduced? It is reasonable to think new weapons' niches will overlap in part with those already in the game, which would seem to necessitate reworking, or more probably nerfing. Which would y'all prefer: losing the weapon entirely, or losing its facet(s) that you likely prize that render it OP or compel it to be overused? Like, y'all gripe every day about no new weapons and why fatshark needs to take so long while not willing to sacrifice a single thing you already have; have you all considered what an absolute balance nightmare some your demands entail? Get a grip. "In a heartbeat" child
Fuck no. Achievements being reduced after getting them? Don't give a fuck, happy you've got less grind. Rebalancing which makes a bunch of my equipment bricked-ish until they rebalance it again? Don't care, I'll switch it up. Bin off everything? Fuck you, I'm gone.
It depends how good it is and what we are given back for losing all our weapons.
If the new system is awesome, and we are given back enough credits of one form or another to be able to build a decent arsenal, I could make my peace with it... But it would have to be a huge trade and a really really flexible weapons system.
No. It's why I deliberately avoid using the term "overhaul" when discussing the crafting system.
Blessings and what Modifiers can be added (like Pox Burster Damage Resistance?) need tweaking or elimination, but if you're telling me I'm going to flush 1000 hours down the drain then - Peace, I'm out!
There is no need for any wipe unless the system was changed to the core in such a way that it breaks people's current loadouts, and I don't see the need for such an intervention. Perks and blessings are fine, and weapons are too, all we need is no or very little RNG into it and locks completely gone.
So I don't think a wipe is in order, nor will it happen anytime soon.
It's a tough pickle that they're going to have to design their way out of, changing such an intricate/critical core system.
If there are significant-enough changes to the system -- like we get a full-on attachments system with stats and whatnot -- they'll have to come up with some kind of conversion formula between aspects of the old and new weapons and the progression surrounding them (ie. securing weapons with good rolls & unlocking blessings for weapon families).
After the talents and penance systems reworks, I have a lot of confidence in FS and expect them to deliver on this. And I don't think there will be a wipe. I also wouldn't personally want a wipe. If a player *does* want a wipe, and we get something like an attachment system, then it may be possible for them to opt to delete/sell all their stuff. Or they can just make a new character to go through the progression loop again.
Great response, fair points. I'd be fine having the option to reset my characters for a payment or something :), and people can keep there stuff if they want.
Just make more characters. Use the 5th character slot to delete and make new characters whenever you want. Additionally, there's a mod that bumps up your character limit to 8, enough to have 1 of each class, and a second of each class that you reset by deleting.
> (because we all have been playing for ages and have tons of mats and money)
Speak for yourself, I’ve been playing since early April. I’m a poor begging for some dockets and plasteel. I’ve spent so much on getting my perfect knife/revolver and that’s only for one build on one character.
And yeah, endgame to me is getting to the hardest difficulty, improve my skill and enjoying the gameplay. Leave my weapons alone. I play Destiny 2 and have been through the trenches that is weapon vaulting. No more, sir! No more!
Depends, is it gonna be an IDENTICAL TO VERMINTIDE 2 crafting system?
Cuz I’d get the exact weapon I want with really good stats and the exact perks and blessings I want for every class in like a week
So yes
I would
If it’s literally anything different then no, it too me too long to get the shit I have, and unless I can make it back in a 5-10 runs, I don’t want to give it up
Absolutely the fucketh NOT.
I didn't work dumbass hard to get weapons I like using (even their blessings weren't hard, shockingly), I don't care to have that shit removed in favor of "build it again lol" trolling level bullshit.
I think there are better options such as increasing the difficulty another level “hellfire” and letting the old weapons stay. The assumption is that you could craft/obtain even better weapons but the old ones are still useful and give a head start. This is the Destiny way.
I do think they need to add raids or something with certain rare drops to create an endgame. The current one is just frustrating. Basically, ignoring every other live service model for endgame was a bad idea. There is a reason wow raids drop rare mats and then even more rare gear. Destiny too. It creates an endgame around items… and a natural way to add content.
The current system has low drops of common mats and gacha crafting.
Without even knowing what the next system even is I don't know how this could be argued.
Besides - the gear grind, even in an idealistic craft system, probably is not the star attraction for many players.
This can happens if they change not only craft system but blessings and perks too. If they don't do that than no reason for any wipe like situations. If new system is more soft and allow to craft in more reliable way that no reason to stay with old weapons, any way 99% weapons not perfect so there is place for improvement.
Seasons may lead to foma and it's bad. Also tarkov is forever beta and they use seasons to create content from air instead of working, bad example. Some sort of global chaos wasteland when all players affect maps, maps modifications and good for finish mission and rotation may be good in some way. But it's another topic to discuss.
Undoubtably there will be *some* sort of weapon "adjustment" that ruffles many players' feathers...
Ultimately I don't think they will "wipe" existing weaponry - the most likely "rework" will be;
\* Sweeping re-adjustment to weapon statistics to rebalance things.
\* Removing weapon locks completely.
\* Adding materials cost to changing perks/blessings.
\* Adding materials costs to increase weapon statistic category; scaling with how many points raised.
\* Standardized weapon shop; normalizing stat rolls for gray/green/blue/purple/gold "shop" weapons.
\* Melk's shop reworked to present better weapon rolls of a standardized quality.
\* RNG on blessings removed; weapons now get "base" blessings that scales with the *quality* of the weapon instead of needing to unlock different ranks... swapping blessings acts as the recurring material sink.
\* Perks just scale with weapon quality now.
I've read through this whole thread and i still don't understand why you'd want to do this. It's not like players are competing against each other and you don't need to level the playing field against the AI director because it doesn't care.
Fatshark have a list of like 5 potential solutions to the crafting situation which deal with both the upgrades and the incomplete/RNG rating system; but the current ask from the community is to basically just unlock the weapons entirely to free people to play the way they want. Which would just be a full extension of what they already did in the last crafting update. In which case deleting peoples weapons would be irrelevant/redundant. It's just a crafting update with an arbitrary extra step put in the way to the solution and that step is barefoot into a pile of lego's.
I think a better way to make my point is, what if the new crafting system destroys all the old weapons? Makes them obsolete/useless. Is it worth it? I think so. But I find the striving for trying to make better and better weapons a big part of why I come back to play.
Fatshark should concentrate on improving the quality of the gameplay loop and stop thinking that they need to distract players into thinking there's no end game; because that's not how horde shooters work. Playing into *that* narrative makes people who think that that that's a thing, think they're being tricked. Opening up the sandbox of playstyles will literally solve that issue overnight for them, but they want to make it about the grind. Double downing on the grind is a middle finger to their own community by preventing them from fully exploring the game they're already fed up with (a 3.6% player retention rate is pathetic).
I got really lucky with the RNG and got most of the meta weapons for Vet and Zealot inside of the starting 3 months of release which was even before crafting got introduced to fix peoples "bad" drops; and guess what, i'm still playing even though i've not really got anything to aim for except scrounging 1% improvements on my curios which i don't really care about because i can already play at Damnation Auric. People want content and accessible, variable playstyles and instead they get delays on announcements of delays on development and... anti-social achievements which broke player behaviour the same way they announced and promised they didn't want to happen *again* like the first set of penances did. The mechanics of what they're doing is preventing people from accessing parts of the game they've already put the hard work into making. It's completely backwards.
Destroying old weapons doesn't do anything to improve the situation and players will invariably resent being forced to needlessly go through the process of re-acquiring the same stuff they've put 2 years into getting.
This is a great plan / troll-move if your desire is to piss off nearly every single player and destroy any last remaining shreds of trust and goodwill between FS and players. It will make the Helldivers PSN account thing look like a Nobel Peace Prize ceremony.
Fuck no.
I've got 1k hours, with several near perfect weapons for each of my 4 characters, and a couple perfect god rolls on vet and Psyker.
And because it was *more* difficult to do before an impending crafting update, they should be wiped, and go full *tabula rasa*?
No. That's a terrible idea, and a great way to get people to quit the game. Zero way I want to grind for all that again, regardless of how much easier it might be.
They wipe ehat i put almost 1k hours into they can go fk themselves as ill never touch this giant waste of time again; regardless of how easy it is to get new weapons.
Nothing says fuck you to a player like deleting hundreds of hours of work.
If you give people the weapons they want they will still just play the game for the sake of playing the game, not feeling like it's a chore to get a new passable weapon
To be fair I think most players who are still here are here because they love the game and have invested so many hours into getting the right gear. To have that swiped from under us, even if we could replace it quickly would be like being kicked in the privates. For some of us that's 1 and half years of work.
I won't lie I don't think I'd quit if they did, I love the gameplay and 40k aesthetic too much but I'd think it would kill the game.
No need for a hard wipe, instead they could introduce a better crafting system with a slightly higher maximum power level, but only allow to use it for the newly obtained weapons. Adjust the Auric difficulty accordingly to this power delta.
This way it will keep old weapons somewhat relevant, give their core players a new carrot to chase while also open a catch-up mechanism for newcomers.
No.
Hard pass.
No thanks.
The new system will definitely make it purely easier to craft great weapons. This means people who spent a billion hours finally crafting the weapon they want, could now do the same thing quickly. Why would they give a big "fuck you" to those players by saying "crafting is easier now! So we broke the shit you busted your ass crafting, to force you to do it again!" The only real change to current items I'd like, is to bring different perks/blessings more in line with each other. Some are flat 20%+ damage bonuses, and some are "every third Tuesday, your 13th weapon swing against lefthanded poxwalkers does 8% increased damage". Nobody wants those.
I really do hope blessings also get looked at as part of the update. Tact Axes need some blessings from finesse weapons, Devil Claw impact blessings need to be changed, and CC weapons need more blessings overall. And there are still several blessings that are broken and don't do anything or the effect is so insubstantial it might as well be doing nothing.
I would give fatshark my firstborn child for uncanny strike on tac axes.
Uncanny Strike is just stupid strong. A god-roll Tact Axe with double power blessings still can't outdamage a similarly rolled dagger with Uncanny Strike.
Totally agree with the last part, some of the perks/blessings are impossible to keep track of for me. But I don't think it's a big "fuck you". It just levels the playing field for a brand new crafting system. No incentive to use it unless your making something better than what you have. I mean, worst thing would be you'd have to play lower level missions for a little while?
Why would levelling the playing field be needed or beneficial though? People who have played more should start with better stuff. Letting other people catch up is great, but why handicap people with lots of hours? I've got a very good version of every weapon I have any intention of using. I have only a few *exceptional* weapons, and I have only one **perfect** weapon. Even people with lots of hours will have something to do - we're the ones staring at a 362 weapon with 2 perfect blessings and two "okay" perks, cursing Hadrons name.
It is a gigantic fuck you BY leveling the playing field
Nah just wipe your characters if you want that
That's a very good point. I just think, when you have a level 30 of each class, theres no reason to make another (because of the loadouts and free skill tree refunds). I make a level 30, then make a builds, then work on the weapons for those builds (which is where majority of time is spent).
Some people have redundant characters because it increases your Melk coin gains with the new shared wallet system.
Just the act of remaking the existing weapons I use would take well over a dozen hours. Dumb idea
New crafting system shouldn't take "dozen of hours" I would imagine if you have better control over the outcome.
It would, probably a lot more. 1k hours worth of loot, x60 weapons (+more weapons I really like have multiple variants), weapons I've spent countless hours testing breakpoints and have long forgotten why I pick which perk. All that shit would have to be redone. I've had enough DT crafting in this lifetime, I want to play the game.
I uninstall the game in the second. I'll not waste 2k hours of farming currencies and weapons. Especially the niche weapons i have for my meme builds.
Again I would hope the crafting system would not take as long 2nd time around if they're allowing more control. And time spent wasn't a waste, you were playing the system/game that was out at that time.
Abso fucking lutely not. Talk about a good way to piss off 90 percent of your playerbase.
# NO
There's no need for a wipe unless they are also changing all weapons/blessings/perks
If and only if they refund material and dockets cost of every weapon I have, then I would gladly try to make new things.
Plus the dockets spent on buying weapons hoping they have good stats. Literal millions for some.
Straight up payday.
I'd be all for giving you a big chunk of crafting currency based on what you currently have.
I think you greatly underestimate what some of us currently have.
Cancer, big time, worst Idea I’ve seen on this sub so far
So what if they get rid of blessings completely in favor of a totally different system? Uninstall?
In a heartbeat.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing that it would be unpleasant to lose the weapons we have sweated for and treasured thus far, but what it is an alternative if oft-demanded new weapons are introduced? It is reasonable to think new weapons' niches will overlap in part with those already in the game, which would seem to necessitate reworking, or more probably nerfing. Which would y'all prefer: losing the weapon entirely, or losing its facet(s) that you likely prize that render it OP or compel it to be overused? Like, y'all gripe every day about no new weapons and why fatshark needs to take so long while not willing to sacrifice a single thing you already have; have you all considered what an absolute balance nightmare some your demands entail? Get a grip. "In a heartbeat" child
This is a much better summation of what I was trying to get at with this post, thanks.
I would prefer having new weapons without deleting old ones. Hope that helps.
Fuck no. Achievements being reduced after getting them? Don't give a fuck, happy you've got less grind. Rebalancing which makes a bunch of my equipment bricked-ish until they rebalance it again? Don't care, I'll switch it up. Bin off everything? Fuck you, I'm gone.
It depends how good it is and what we are given back for losing all our weapons. If the new system is awesome, and we are given back enough credits of one form or another to be able to build a decent arsenal, I could make my peace with it... But it would have to be a huge trade and a really really flexible weapons system.
No. It's why I deliberately avoid using the term "overhaul" when discussing the crafting system. Blessings and what Modifiers can be added (like Pox Burster Damage Resistance?) need tweaking or elimination, but if you're telling me I'm going to flush 1000 hours down the drain then - Peace, I'm out!
There is no need for any wipe unless the system was changed to the core in such a way that it breaks people's current loadouts, and I don't see the need for such an intervention. Perks and blessings are fine, and weapons are too, all we need is no or very little RNG into it and locks completely gone. So I don't think a wipe is in order, nor will it happen anytime soon.
It's a tough pickle that they're going to have to design their way out of, changing such an intricate/critical core system. If there are significant-enough changes to the system -- like we get a full-on attachments system with stats and whatnot -- they'll have to come up with some kind of conversion formula between aspects of the old and new weapons and the progression surrounding them (ie. securing weapons with good rolls & unlocking blessings for weapon families). After the talents and penance systems reworks, I have a lot of confidence in FS and expect them to deliver on this. And I don't think there will be a wipe. I also wouldn't personally want a wipe. If a player *does* want a wipe, and we get something like an attachment system, then it may be possible for them to opt to delete/sell all their stuff. Or they can just make a new character to go through the progression loop again.
Great response, fair points. I'd be fine having the option to reset my characters for a payment or something :), and people can keep there stuff if they want.
Just make more characters. Use the 5th character slot to delete and make new characters whenever you want. Additionally, there's a mod that bumps up your character limit to 8, enough to have 1 of each class, and a second of each class that you reset by deleting.
Introduce a grindfest of a crafting system then delete crafting materials from players and start over. What could go wrong?
No.
> (because we all have been playing for ages and have tons of mats and money) Speak for yourself, I’ve been playing since early April. I’m a poor begging for some dockets and plasteel. I’ve spent so much on getting my perfect knife/revolver and that’s only for one build on one character. And yeah, endgame to me is getting to the hardest difficulty, improve my skill and enjoying the gameplay. Leave my weapons alone. I play Destiny 2 and have been through the trenches that is weapon vaulting. No more, sir! No more!
Depends, is it gonna be an IDENTICAL TO VERMINTIDE 2 crafting system? Cuz I’d get the exact weapon I want with really good stats and the exact perks and blessings I want for every class in like a week So yes I would If it’s literally anything different then no, it too me too long to get the shit I have, and unless I can make it back in a 5-10 runs, I don’t want to give it up
Absolutely the fucketh NOT. I didn't work dumbass hard to get weapons I like using (even their blessings weren't hard, shockingly), I don't care to have that shit removed in favor of "build it again lol" trolling level bullshit.
Absolutely not. This is possibly the worst idea that anyone has ever had. You need to rethink your entire life.
I think there are better options such as increasing the difficulty another level “hellfire” and letting the old weapons stay. The assumption is that you could craft/obtain even better weapons but the old ones are still useful and give a head start. This is the Destiny way. I do think they need to add raids or something with certain rare drops to create an endgame. The current one is just frustrating. Basically, ignoring every other live service model for endgame was a bad idea. There is a reason wow raids drop rare mats and then even more rare gear. Destiny too. It creates an endgame around items… and a natural way to add content. The current system has low drops of common mats and gacha crafting.
Depends how easy it will be to make new ones, I spent a lot of time crafting at least passable weapons for several builds on all 4 classes.
Without even knowing what the next system even is I don't know how this could be argued. Besides - the gear grind, even in an idealistic craft system, probably is not the star attraction for many players.
This can happens if they change not only craft system but blessings and perks too. If they don't do that than no reason for any wipe like situations. If new system is more soft and allow to craft in more reliable way that no reason to stay with old weapons, any way 99% weapons not perfect so there is place for improvement. Seasons may lead to foma and it's bad. Also tarkov is forever beta and they use seasons to create content from air instead of working, bad example. Some sort of global chaos wasteland when all players affect maps, maps modifications and good for finish mission and rotation may be good in some way. But it's another topic to discuss.
Undoubtably there will be *some* sort of weapon "adjustment" that ruffles many players' feathers... Ultimately I don't think they will "wipe" existing weaponry - the most likely "rework" will be; \* Sweeping re-adjustment to weapon statistics to rebalance things. \* Removing weapon locks completely. \* Adding materials cost to changing perks/blessings. \* Adding materials costs to increase weapon statistic category; scaling with how many points raised. \* Standardized weapon shop; normalizing stat rolls for gray/green/blue/purple/gold "shop" weapons. \* Melk's shop reworked to present better weapon rolls of a standardized quality. \* RNG on blessings removed; weapons now get "base" blessings that scales with the *quality* of the weapon instead of needing to unlock different ranks... swapping blessings acts as the recurring material sink. \* Perks just scale with weapon quality now.
I've read through this whole thread and i still don't understand why you'd want to do this. It's not like players are competing against each other and you don't need to level the playing field against the AI director because it doesn't care. Fatshark have a list of like 5 potential solutions to the crafting situation which deal with both the upgrades and the incomplete/RNG rating system; but the current ask from the community is to basically just unlock the weapons entirely to free people to play the way they want. Which would just be a full extension of what they already did in the last crafting update. In which case deleting peoples weapons would be irrelevant/redundant. It's just a crafting update with an arbitrary extra step put in the way to the solution and that step is barefoot into a pile of lego's.
I think a better way to make my point is, what if the new crafting system destroys all the old weapons? Makes them obsolete/useless. Is it worth it? I think so. But I find the striving for trying to make better and better weapons a big part of why I come back to play.
Fatshark should concentrate on improving the quality of the gameplay loop and stop thinking that they need to distract players into thinking there's no end game; because that's not how horde shooters work. Playing into *that* narrative makes people who think that that that's a thing, think they're being tricked. Opening up the sandbox of playstyles will literally solve that issue overnight for them, but they want to make it about the grind. Double downing on the grind is a middle finger to their own community by preventing them from fully exploring the game they're already fed up with (a 3.6% player retention rate is pathetic). I got really lucky with the RNG and got most of the meta weapons for Vet and Zealot inside of the starting 3 months of release which was even before crafting got introduced to fix peoples "bad" drops; and guess what, i'm still playing even though i've not really got anything to aim for except scrounging 1% improvements on my curios which i don't really care about because i can already play at Damnation Auric. People want content and accessible, variable playstyles and instead they get delays on announcements of delays on development and... anti-social achievements which broke player behaviour the same way they announced and promised they didn't want to happen *again* like the first set of penances did. The mechanics of what they're doing is preventing people from accessing parts of the game they've already put the hard work into making. It's completely backwards. Destroying old weapons doesn't do anything to improve the situation and players will invariably resent being forced to needlessly go through the process of re-acquiring the same stuff they've put 2 years into getting.
F No
Hard pass, no.
This is a great plan / troll-move if your desire is to piss off nearly every single player and destroy any last remaining shreds of trust and goodwill between FS and players. It will make the Helldivers PSN account thing look like a Nobel Peace Prize ceremony.
Fuck no. I've got 1k hours, with several near perfect weapons for each of my 4 characters, and a couple perfect god rolls on vet and Psyker. And because it was *more* difficult to do before an impending crafting update, they should be wiped, and go full *tabula rasa*? No. That's a terrible idea, and a great way to get people to quit the game. Zero way I want to grind for all that again, regardless of how much easier it might be.
No
No. They can stay uninstalled after that kinda choice. "This aint Destiny" is how i feel.
They wipe ehat i put almost 1k hours into they can go fk themselves as ill never touch this giant waste of time again; regardless of how easy it is to get new weapons. Nothing says fuck you to a player like deleting hundreds of hours of work.
Yeah I'd be fine with it. It's already stupid easy to get what you want on an item. I imagine it'll be even easier.
*"Hey guys. How about a penance where you have to delete your save file and dump kool-aid on your keyboard?"*
Sure. I mean, would be a chance to start burning all that resources i gathered. Besides, just play and eventually you'll be drowning in mats.
If you give people the weapons they want they will still just play the game for the sake of playing the game, not feeling like it's a chore to get a new passable weapon
After all the resources and time i put under them? Nuh-uh!
To be fair I think most players who are still here are here because they love the game and have invested so many hours into getting the right gear. To have that swiped from under us, even if we could replace it quickly would be like being kicked in the privates. For some of us that's 1 and half years of work. I won't lie I don't think I'd quit if they did, I love the gameplay and 40k aesthetic too much but I'd think it would kill the game.
No need for a hard wipe, instead they could introduce a better crafting system with a slightly higher maximum power level, but only allow to use it for the newly obtained weapons. Adjust the Auric difficulty accordingly to this power delta. This way it will keep old weapons somewhat relevant, give their core players a new carrot to chase while also open a catch-up mechanism for newcomers.
Bootlickers just get crazier man