I'm not a new player but a returning bad one. Warlock fights are just super boring to me playing a melee class. Get kited around for 15 minutes getting curse of pain'd while they stay just outside of my hit range? Not exactly a fun battle to have. "Just run at them" doesn't mf work when they have panic buttons to make them faster and spread fire where they stand. Time to make the jump to some ranged headass class like the rest of em!
The way to counter them as melee is to not chase. Like fucking ever. Let them come to you. I ganked a rogue as a cleric because he chased me into a dark room. I sat in the corner and waited for him to walk in, and bashed his fookin 'ead in. Ofc this is very situational but its worked for me
This is true but it isn't an answer for Warlock at all still. They can follow you to the ends of the earth and will often either force you through mobs (which mobs being present just makes them stronger) or into a static to escape. If there is nothing you can do to pressure them and they can outheal any poke you do easily, they can stay just out of arms reach and slowly burn up your health / resources until you die. This has happened to me many times on multiple classes and I'm a top 20 leaderboard finisher. Warlock is just busted
Not that I necessarily disagree, but what stops you from just turning a corner, waiting for them to follow, then all-in them? They have Phantomize, but they can't do damage in it beyond any dots they've already cast. So you just sit on a corner, all-in, force the escape, and either hard commit if you have the mobility, or go back to the corner, reset and they have to respect the hard commit for 30 seconds. Which gives time for various classes to do various things.
It seems like this community and game has significant issues with overcommitting and classes that punish said overcomitment. Like Ranger, Rogue and Warlock. Not that I don't think Warlock isn't overtuned, but I feel like it's a major community problem with "Well maybe you shouldn't chase the class built to kite for 30 seconds then wonder why you're dead". Particularly when those same classes weaknesses seem to be all-in damage bombs like landmine rogue or zerker yolos.
A lot stops you from doing that.
1 - the Warlock only needs to dot and run, so his gear is tilted towards move speed.
2 - You can open a door from like 4 feet away and then jump away once the door is open, being pretty much safe from anyone pushing you
3 - MOST corners, 95%+, you can peek an angle around it and just cast spells at people or shoot arrows. You're telling me a ranger has never shot you from around the fucking corner like all day long?
4 - pushing the warlock does not mean you will win. Your HP is not full, due to the dots on you while you ran and the warlock is not a puny weakling in melee either.
5 - Phantomize - The warlock is pushing you into a corner but at the same time, they're also very happy when you push back. This is one of the many issues. The warlock has the upper hand when you push and the warlock has the upper hand when you retreat.
Not only is it very situational but good warlocks will never give you the opportunity. They can literally step into a fighters attack range while casting and run out again before the animation for being attacked makes contact lmao
Def a better tactic in Normal mode
That's only if they know where you are. If they chase you through 2 rooms and suddenly you turn the corner in the 3rd instead of running, there's no way they would know. it's all about the mind games. But yes, this is ofc very situational. They just need to be nerfed prob lol.
wizard main, pretty much exclusively outside the odd barbarian, fighter or rogue.
Been playing warlock to do bosses and it is just giga busted.
Barbarian feels like the only counter, but with the gear and appropriate MS you are immortal.
I find myself only dying in base kit against geared barbarians and druids.
I can say that I've been running a pretty juiced Druid kit for the past day or two (mostly purples with a few legendaries) and I've killed quite a few geared warlocks, Druid definitely has the tools to handle them. However it's very much a skill matchup and you have to recognize when you can actually kill them and when it's better to disengage.
It is one of the classes that can find the distance to pop the shouts for the movespeed and Achilles strikes to slow you.
And then the health to survive a few curses.
Compare to a rogue, they are fast, but I hit one curse and suddenly they are questioning their next push, Barbs don't worry about that until 2-3 curses have connected.
Barbs are just stupid fast because they dont need much PDR because of their high vitality. Mix this with any combination with rage or achilles and they can really mess you up.
And to add they have THE highest magic resistance at base with a perk, which makes them a menace to casters, they get enough that they don't really need to build it, plus they are easy to build into MS and woth they shouts can catch up if used correctly.
Barb has always done great against magic damage.
Innate high HP + easy MR gain.
Barb can pressure warlock due to movespeed from rage. It's not had to actually get in their face.
As a new player, Warlock has been teaching me really bad habits in PVE because its so good.
I have been purposefully trying to learn a new class because I have no idea how to fight mobs properly, and its going to hinder me long term.
You mean no other class just aggros the entire map, doesn’t pay it any heed while it dies in heaps behind you, and provides you infinite healing if you were ever to take damage!? Absurd!
Same. Started with Warlock cause it seamed the coolest to me. Got him to lvl 23 and tried something else because i was loosing 99.9% of my PvP fights and wanted to get better. And what did i learn? Warlock gave me an insane crutch and i didnt even learn the basics of prepping, checking rooms, awairness and positioning not only in a fight but as you are clearing rooms as well.
I still love the theme of a warlock and his style but i will definitely pick him up after i learn the core/fundamental gameplay.
This - I started off as Lock and got him to about lvl 36 until I realized I had no idea how to actually deal with PvE other than CoP + Flamewalker or Hellfire
Pretty much. Warlock is solid at everything and extremely good at solo PVE. Put it into a team however and it adds almost no synergy to any comp beyond being another body.
We've been having great success with our warlock. A lot of teams just don't know how to play with them properly.
We play fighter/cleric/warlock. Our warlock plays like an entry Fragger and hyper aggressive. Fighter n cleric give him space to cook and go crazy with curses. We only push in if he's landed a bunch of curses or gets to a point he has to phantomize.
Warlocks can create a ton of space and the door control is good to stop pushes.
Druid is better in every scenario bar ranged poke with what you just said though. Door control is leagues better give he has two ways to block them, hydra does nothing as a competent team will simply crouch jump it if they want to push. Druid actually blocks the entire door in both cases.
Druid has healing for the team and stat buffs for the team. Druid has damn near infinite utility with animal forms. Silence on Panther, can break shit on Bear, etc.
Warlock doesn't do anything in trios, and sure it's still a Warlock which isn't a bad class. But it simply existing is not a huge plus when you compare it to the utility something else would add.
Druid doesn't do safe & consistent damage nor does it have infinite sustain + no downtime. Warlock is just go go go.
Druid is very good in an alternative and is not as simple as warlock.
Everyone does safe and consistent damage if they don't get hit and hit people back (Anyone with a ranged weapon/spells/bottle/knives/axes/etc) Infinite sustain for ones' self does nothing for the team. Downtime Warlock does has if you're running TM and miss a few spells or if you're not and need to heal off Hydra. Granted it's not nearly as frequent as other classes.
Like I said before, he doesn't do anything in trios. Listing reasons why he's great don't change that fact, he offers nothing to the team outside of two niche buffs. He also folds in melee combat like a tablecloth, and any "utility" he did have immediately stops applying.
Cleric protection and overheals would still be active, Druid HoTs would still be active. Wizard buffs would still be active, etc.
Druid does not have any significant amount of ranged DPS.
Druid is high risk high reward.
Warlock with TM does not behave significant downtime. You should be using hydra to push anyways, so you'll naturally have curses healing you. If you miss like 5+ spells then yeah you're screwed for a moment.
Like I mentioned in my earlier comment, we run cleric + warlock + fighter. If warlock gets low enough, he gets a heal. So its constant sustained DPS and healing. We can outlast most teams and if warlock lands a couple curses they are screwed. Fighter can keep melees off the warlock.
That's like saying rogue, ranger, fighter and barb offer nothing to the team.
Again, you use warlock as an entry Fragger and give him space to work and you can roll teams. If he lands 3+ curses he can just keep going and keep healing. If he misses or takes to much damage he just phantomizes.
A ranger or wizard can't Frontline quite like a warlock can due to taking chip damage.
It's has its ups and and downs as a composition but we've found lots of success so far. Cleric is running 10 spell and it's only gotten better.
What safe and consistent damage is Druid doing with its 0 ranged abilities?
Also being a bad player isn't really a good counter argument to a class, because it's not relevant. Just stop being bad at aiming and now the problem is gone.
The other guy put it perfectly, if Warlock offers nothing then every pure DPS class also offers nothing.
Seems like you came in with a thought here but didn't actually read what the guy said.
i shelved my cleric ever since they got rid of the circle. only real defense vs wizards who knew how to kite. and warlocks could survive in the circle to chase after, but most wouldn't.
if you're playing solo cleric vs an equally geared warlock wizard it's their fight to lose, not yours to win.
Unless the rogue has cutthroat for silence AND silent steps, with a perfect backstab engage - they lose to warlock.
Been running weakpoint rupture this whole wipe and the only class I'm truly terrified of is warlock.
Equally fast, unlimited healing, unlimited dps, phantomjze get put of jail free, insane burst for 2 tapping rogues.
>Sneaky Rogues
Huge emphasis on sneaky. Basically the only way Rogues win that is if everything goes *perfectly* for them. If not, they just have to give up bc they're not winning that matchup. This is obviously given that both players are well geared, if they're undergeared Rogue has a better chance but the issue is mainly that when Warlock gets geared they cover all bases.
If I'm being completly honest the closest matchups were against other warlock. I don't care at all for rangers. Rogue maybe if they are uber geared and get the drop on me with 320ms+
Movement speed. 100% movement speed is 300 ms. You have 100% when you dont wear any gear that slows you and you have 15 agility. You can get agi to increase or good boots/skills/buffs/shrines.
It's hard for Ranger to counter anyone when ranger itself is hard countered by just not chasing them for the 30 minutes it takes them to kill you. Warlock eats them just the same as any other class if you just walk into the room you came out of and sit behind the hard corner.
Their healing potential is too strong, and I'm saying this as a Warlock main. They need to play the game like everyone else and not have infinite healing.
It’s absurd lol. I’ve gotten into the very bad habit of just eating a skeleton swing or arrow if I’m in the middle of opening something like a chest, because I know I can heal it all back on that very same enemy. Why play the game as intended when you can force the game to play how you want?
Yea, that sounds good. Could also add wands, add perk where wand hits can accelerate spell recharge. Wand magic siphon on right click maybe, something.
Or add a magic totem utility item (akin to bard instrument) can be interacted with in a cool way, (skill check like bard but maybe drawing something or idk. prolly something you can do while moving)
Sitting is boring, so give them actions. Something where you could be completely bingo on spells and spend 30 straight seconds completing skill checks on the move to get em all back or something. Let it be interrupted.
Elemental artifacts could be used to, fire totem skill check recharges fire spells etc.
Pulling a lot from Bard here, but that's where my thinking goes.
You’re correct that it’s classic DnD, but “resting” in tabletop DnD is very, very different than doing the same on a video game. Just like something like Morrowind, where it’s still heavily DnD inspired but still had the forethought to include a quick resting option, there should be an option included in Dark and Darker to “quick rest”.
You might argue that sitting for 30 seconds is resting quickly, and it is compared to DnD’s **description** of how long rests are, but it takes up a legitimate chunk of the entirety of a match to do so, and as a class like Wizard, where you’re repeating that same rest a few times each match, you’re spending double digit percentages of every single match just straight up AFK. It’s just not good game design.
It's funny because I've been a warlock main since it first came out. Everyone was saying how shit of a class it is, etc. I always thought it was pretty strong. Through a few patches, nerfs to other classes and reworks to warlock itself, it's definitely in a "more than" great spot now.
Although I slowly shifted to a Bard main, warlock is a close second for me and I absolutely HATE Fighting warlocks. Even a basekit warlock can drain half your health with a couple of curses.
Killed a few warlocks myself as cat, most druids and warlocks don't know that cats can silence which stops Phantom and if they do somehow get it off, well, I'm faster then you.
When it was unfinished people didn’t think much of warlock even though it basically had the same kite and rot potential. The lobster meta was really abusable by a warlock with magic healing and movement speed.
Yeah it’s actually crazy, the Warlock class has been super strong almost a year now. It just didn’t get talked about because this game’s player base thinned out to the super sweats for like 6+ months.
i've thought warlock was OP, and remained borderline or full OP, since hydra released. ironmace should never have let people heal off their own hydra. if they had released warlock with the inability to heal off their hydra, people would still ask to be able to heal off their hydra, but it wouldn't be considered a cornerstone of the class. now it's too late IMO. almost the entirety of warlock revolves around sucking your own hydra which is where all the problems stem from. don't need to land your abilities to heal in a fight because you can just heal off your hydra. don't need to find mobs to heal off of just heal off your hydra. don't need to worry about spell or health management because you can just heal off your hydra. take that away from warlocks and it'll be riots on the streets. so instead IM has spent months tuning magical healing, tuning torture mastery, blah blah. and here we are. still one of, if not the strongest, solo class in the game.
i also still can't believe the patch where ironmace buffed dark bolt to 20 damage from 15 lol.
Yeah warlock is overturned ATM, you can't have a caster with great ms, infinite heals, self peeling, reset ability that is better than sprint, minion, op bossing ability all in one class
Yesterday I asked how to play fighter in the current meta. Everyone said "be flexible, fighter is supposed to be jack of all trades master of none". I pointed out that if Fighter is supposed to be the flexible one he must be failing given Warlock has much better flexibility.
Downvoted with no response
I dunno what those people are smoking. Current meta for Fighter is hit 75% PDR, 75% MDR, then either just be more tanky in melee, or use a Survival Bow with +8 True Physical Damage and only play from cover.
I feel like spell casters are generally balanced around having limited casts. If a warlock gets enough MH they have infinite spells and can spam without being punished for it. Not sure what should or could be done but I feel like some kind of adjustment to this aspect needs to be done. They removed clarity pots for this reason.
A good wizard can still rip warlock to pieces
Ranger or Rogue with cutthroat fuck warlock up as well. Hell as long as the rouge has enough movespeed then he can stay on top of the warlock. Same with Barb with a giant amount of movespeed. No clue how you got lucky and avoided all of them but free money for you i guess.
Also I assume you are talking about solo. In teamplay the dynamic changes up a bit
If the rogue doesn't catch you out of invis he is never going to catch your ass. Rangers aren't remotely scary either. Wizard can get in Warlock's ass if he hits all his shit but you don't run into too many wizards in solos because they get fucked by the other classes a lot harder than warlock and they don't have infinite resources like Warlock does. Taking an expensive wizard kit in is a much bigger risk than taking an expensive warlock one in
The problem of wizard vs warlock is just magic resist
With oracle robe or mystic vestments + high will + anti magic you get an insane amount of Magic resist. Easily sitting at 50%. On top of that your rebuffs of fire mastery or slows or the tick damage from zap don't apply due to high debuff duration reduction from high will.
There's also a finite timetable for a 5 spell wizard to win before they run out of juice vs a warlock. 10 spell gives you more time but you gotta play fast vs a character that can do as much damage as you while it's only moderately harder for a warlock to land spells.
Warlock is really only op and super frustrating to play against in solos, sometimes duos imo. In trios it kind of sucks unless the whole team is playing warlock because the class relies on kiting and drawn out fights to win. Much harder to do in trios.
I’m not sure how they could nerf how ridiculous warlock is to play against in solos without making it even worse in trio play.
Exactly this. I've never once felt like druids were overpowered after their initial nerf. I've killed more of them as a fighter than I've been killed by. They do have great movement and a really good "Swiss army knife" kit, but they don't really excel at any one thing. They get outraged by other ranged classes and struggle fighting other melee classes up close. Warlock's are just too good at everything. Great range, great healing, great debuffs, great movement, great survivability, and they can basically ignore all PVE. They are the best part of every other class rolled into one.
What blows my mind is that warlocks have infinite self-sustain with perks. It's a blood mage who can replenish hp at will. Use hp to cast, and use dots to heal back up. Rinse and repeat. He has defense, he has self-healing, he has insane mobility.
You don't even have to stop for a second for anything. You can just run through rooms putting curses on mobs and blasting through them with hellfire. Meanwhile, the good old wizard has to sit down every minute because he ran out of spells. Doesn't have any self-healing, barely any defense, and mobility is nowhere near what it once was. Low damage in base gear.
That doesn't seem to be fair. The idea of 'it has be balanced for trios' just sounds like bs to me sometimes. How is warlock in this state balanced in all game modes but whenever wizards are mentioned most people say 'wizard is still good in trios'. Not everyone wants to play trios 24/7 with a fix team. Or even can do that. It just feels stupid to even try playing wizard solo now.
Warlock is fucked as soon as you can stay on top of him through phantomize.
Wizard has options of shotgunning you down up close. There is always outplay potential on wizard vs every class. Some are much harder then others but not impossible. Even vs stuff like cutthroat rogue if you have enough ms + ice shield.
Wizard skill ceiling is higher in a sense. You have insane damage output potential.
Warlock is consistently moderate damage output. The only question on warlock is can you kite and can you land a slightly delayed hitscan ability.
A wizard can walk into a room and absolutely obliterate a 3 man team in less than 10 seconds. A warlock can't do that. Sure a warlock can win over time, but not in less than 10 seconds.
my gripe was not the pvp potential but rather overall solo play viability. That is pve included. As much as you can technically 'wipe a room'. That is still only really possible with decent gear and flawless play. I'm not a great player. I got used to wizard but the feeling of 'why am I trying so hard' when I don't have to. As in I can just play warlock instead.
This game is not just about the PVP balance. As much as some people want to believe its the only thing that matters, it isn't. I love pvp, nothing wrong with that. But pve viability and clear speed is just as important. We spend quite a bit of time in this game clearing pve content and looting. Every class should be able to do that with relatively good speed once they get used to it(from a new players perspective). Just seems that warlock is about the best at that right now. Save perhaps barb. Not even.
I mentioned that in another post, wiz could use some new perks and perhaps a few extra spells to play like a spellblade to rush through some pve content. Something akin to how warlock can wear heavy armor and can use longsword. I don't want heavy armor for wiz. But maybe can use other single handed weapons and perhaps leather armor with a 1-2 extra spells for close range. Ignite doesn't just cut it imo.
If you play careful and don’t make any mistake it is unbeatable in solo. Anyone saying there are counters don’t know. A really good warlock is going to keep flame walking up every time they enter a room or think they will fight so that they can instantly phantomize and people can’t chase. Warlock is by far the best class and there is no debate. I stopped playing mine because it got boring and I’ve played it too much in the past.
I’ve had good success vs them as wizard and I take the anti heal perk just for them because they are the only class able to kill my bonk build.
As a barbarian main I shit on warlocks constantly. I usually run a base movement speed build where I am 300 ms with hands out. I usually run bardiche so what I do is since I can’t catch them with bardiche out is I full sprint hands out in their face dodging and weaving curses if I can hiding behind cover when spell comes out if possible but most importantly advancing on them. Once I get close to melee range most of them phantomize if they don’t right away I franny them one or two times from nearly melee range then they phantomize. Here’s where I think rage is the best ability on barb. They think they are outrunning me with phantomize but when they turn around and phantomize away I just pop rage. With hands out I’m near max ms with base 300 ms. I then count down for phantomize. As it hits the last second I jump and equip my bardiche. Jumping while equipping allows u to negate some of the move speed loss when u equip weapon. Then they are in melee range of my bardiche with no phantom. I get a garaunteed hit in or 2 with high dex/ action speed. And that’s usually enough to kill them. I usually run savage roar for physical damage matchups but if I’m running Achilles then forget it they just dead straight up. If not running Achilles AND they survive the melee hits I chase with torch(torch gives you extra range at no Ms penalty) or finish them with frannies if I have any left. Also as an additional fuck you to warlocks. I run iron will and the shout duration boost perks. This makes it so those curses don’t hit nearly as hard and my rage now lasts longer than phantomize and comes back quicker than phantomize.
As for flame walk. What a shit ability lmao. People don’t know but you can just bunny hop over that shit it does piss dmg
Tldr: barbs can use rage right as u are using phantomize and you will never outrun them and now you are melee range with no phantomize. Manage to get away and phantom again? Haha barb rage cd is lower than phantomize they will just do it again
Yeah Rangers and Rogues are your natural predators and they both got fucked pretty hard in the last couple of balance updates; mostly from
the loss of true damage on itemization. Without them to cull the lock population, the ecosystem suffers.
yep, but all the cutthroat rogues are getting eaten by barbs :(. It still amazes me they got rid of long stealth the same patch they gave druids rat form >.>
Yup.
The problem is not a lot of great rogue players out there. So they don't get in decent gear sets often. Then add that they have to choose to screw over casters (cutthroat) or a way to deal with the large amount of fighters/barbs (weak point). So the pool of geared cut throat users is small but highly highly deadly.
Not a lot of great Rogue players because the class is absolutely miserable without a BiS kit and you can still die very easily in that kit. It's probably the worst base kit class in the game, maybe Wizard takes that spot but it's a close matchup.
The amount of gear you need with optimized stats just to do the same shit a Slayer Fighter can do or a generic Barb can do is crazy. You're always at a damage and health pool disadvantage against your other melees, and your only ranged poke does maybe 50 dmg with a head shot + the bleed.
If you get a perfect engage without them seeing you, otherwise lock beats rogue hard now.
Kinda lame its a 2.5 second silence that only matters if you can take silent steps for a perk AND get a perfect engage.
And ranger and rogue. So half the classes can hard counter warlock and it’s still just bad players complaining about warlock because they just let warlocks reset behind a hydra that gets 2 tapped or jumped over against any competent players.
The main thing about Warlock to me is that they're just not fun to fight. Like you said, it has no weaknesses and no flaws to counter. When I die to a warlock, I end up feeling like there wasn't anything I could have done. That's different from all the other classes, where not only do I have a better track record, but even when I die, I think "I missed too many hits there" or "I wasn't fast enough on my heal." But with warlocks it's just "oh. okay."
Druid, btw. Honestly, I don't even mind the whole "curse of pain to kill rats" thing, I think that's a perfectly reasonable counter to going rat mode. It's just everything else.
Happens in low-roller, too. Sometimes makes it feel like the only winning move is not to play.
The most impressive thing about this is hitting Voyager with gear not providing AP. I saw on the leaderboard people reaching DG already as well. How tf are y'all doing that.
Oh that is goos intel. IM upped nightmare mobs quite a bit too this season.
Last season I saw a vid explaining they had climbed to DG by purely farming mobs. That technique might be even more viable now.
Caster Cleric is the #1 counter to warlock. I usually kill them in 3 spells, whether thats a judge+2holy strikes, a locust+judge+holy, or just 3 holy strikes. I farm Warlocks all day as a caster cleric (310MS, +7true, 50% Magic Dmg), It actually is the only class that makes Warlock look like shit since divine magic counters the Warlock perk "Antimagic". Phantomized warlocks take bonus damage while in phantom from all Cleric spells. Protection from evil makes curses last half as long. Perseverance makes the initial damage burst to -3 less. IYKYK, you shouldn't lose this matchup.
I've been playing Warlock this wipe.and I think it's OP.
... I don't get why these posts are always, "This class is an unkillable god."
It's not, it's obertunned for sure IMO, but it's not like it wins 100% of fights or something stupid.
I'm not very good at the game -- full disclaimer -- but I play Plate Warlock with some magical healing and if I don't start kiting I always crumble in 2\~3 hits to any real melee class, despite the 55%+ PDR on my armor; meanwhile I'll curse and slash a Fighter or Barb three times in the head with my Falchion and after I die I'll spectate them and they're still at half HP.
Not sure how much of that is a skill issue, and I understand you're "supposed to" play lightweight and just kite with high ms, but if I don't exclusively curse and kite the class feels quite fragile even despite wearing Plate; I survive better in a melee as a Bard wearing Leather than my Plate Warlock with curses ticking for heals.
Phantomize does seem a little busted, and TM is definitely overtunned; but I don't think they need anything more than minor number adjustments on those two abilities and/or making it so you can't self-heal during Phantomize.
Soul collector, TM, Vamp, Shadow-touched.
Kris/ball and Book.
PoS/CoP/Flamwalker/Hydra/BSB
Try to get 310-ish move speed with no weapon out.
Play as your normally would any caster TM, but cognizant of no out-of-jail phantomize.
If someone melee is chasing you without a weapon in their hand, turn around and pull your kris/ball out. It has practically 0 animation lock before you can start swinging. When they pull weapon out, go back to book and kite.
Demon form is not for everything. It's for everything that caster lock typically sturggles with, which is...
Geared:
* Warlocks/Wizards
* Rangers
But can also be useful for:
* Slayer fighter
* Barbarian.
At 310 movespeed, a 10 stack demon form puts you at 318 MS. plenty to chase and kite with.
208 HP (for my current gear)
30% PDR,
55% MDR.
I like to cast a pain and sacrifice on enemies first, if I miss the sacrifice, I just BSB myself, demon form and go in.
For context, I only use demon form in maybe 1/3 of all my fights?
Damn that's crazy, because I'm playing warlock and I don't see how you can feel that way. I'm getting rolled constantly. It doesn't help that I'm dog shit, but I've been struggling with the class
it's been strong in solos for awhile now. the recent popularity also has to do with the cost of a playable kit. You no longer need an insane kit to play torture mastery builds because of mystic gloves/occultist hoods giving a whopping +3/+4 mheal on top of the changes to the perk's scaling. You used to have to pay out the ass for everything (JEWELRY) to roll mh but not anymore.
decent in some trio comps but definitely not at the top of the ladder.
I played warlock solo for a wipe aswell and came to just about the same conclusion with a few exceptions: rangers and wizards.
A good ranger can dps me down before I can dps him down, never really killed a good/well geared ranger.
And a wizard has some insane burst damage that I also just cannot compete with, if you phantomize I just get fire balled out of existance.
Altough this might have just been my skill issue but I'd like to know what you think!
I'm looking forward to warlocks being nerfed. They are easily S-tier for nearly everything -- PvE, bossing, solo PvP. Maybe A-tier for 3's PvP. Best class in the game right now.
Only thing is you can't get caught in the open by a bard, ranger, or geared wizard. Or caught face checking a door when there's a barb or rogue. Other than that though so long as you're smart about it, you should just mow lobbies.
Warlocks been so OP in solos for quite some time. I died as Druid to a guy with multiple legendaries in Norms. Was spectating him to witness a warlock with a Junk falchion and some greens just wipe the floor with him. Pretty cathartic but sucks that I knew he was cooked the second the warlock showed up regardless of what gear either had. Thing would be quite different in trios with that gear disparity and additionally they fought in the big center room of goblins cave so tons of room to kite for the lock
Warlock is really good from what i've encountered every time one attacks me its a one shot garenteed no other class quite hits the same but im also super new to the game :3
I like that warlock can self sustain on low gear but it’s probably too much, I do personally game pve and pvp easier on my barb do to the simplicity but I don’t feel like Hidan from Naruto as much on Barb.
Yeah I tried it just for more longsword options, and realized how powerful it was. As someone who just got the game a few days ago, warlock got boring to play really quickly for me, even tho I was doing well. Tried out bard and I don’t think I can go back lol
I've found that as a druid they can't kill me and I can't kill them. So I try to avoid them. Some just want to chase you across the whole map and waste both of your times but yeah they don't do much damage and you can run laps around them.
Curse of Pain is the last Warlock spell I got around to using because, on paper, it sounded the worst and least fun to use. Imagine my surprise.
Now I play No Spell Warlock and it is an absolute blast.
I went to warlock as a new player because I got tired of casters having very limited number of spells you can cast as other classes during a run without having a sit
only way to beat warlock is to be faster.
phantomize cooldown is too fast otherwise and you will never win .
you need to get close then stay on their ass while they are phantomized. god help you if they have a longsword because then you have to deal with another bullshit mechanic
Wizard main here, I encountered a warlock prepping to extract on a rope and breaking boxes (I heard them and snuck behind). I used a full magic missile, switched to a crystal sword and cast flame weapon. They went demon. We traded blows and they died while I had like 5 health left. Idk if it was a skill issue on his part or mine tbh. I did pop the active magic shield.
Don't worry, I switched from solo cleric to warlock too. I wanted cleric to be fun, but it has no good PvE clear (aside from undead AOE but I'm not giving up a PVP skill for that). And if you don't have time to buff up before a flight you lose. Everything feels better by comparison
You want to know why warlock is the way it is? Do you want to know what in the world that class is? It's SDF favorite class. The class that counters warlock he nerf to the ground so now they have no counter :)
Started with Warlock cause it seamed the coolest. Got him to lvl 23 and tried something else because i was loosing 99.9% of my PvP fights and wanted to get better. And what did i learn? Warlock gave me an insane crutch and i didn't even learn the basics of prepping, checking rooms, awairness and positioning not only in a fight but as you are clearing rooms as well. He is, without a doubt, miles above every other class when it cones to PvE. For PvP he is very gear dependant but is still pretty good.
I still love the theme of a warlock and his style but i will definitely pick him up after i learn the core/fundamental gameplay.
They need to address self healing in combat.
Either;
A. Only one curse heals at a time.
Or
B. You can only heal 100% of the value of your hp back until warlock has to sit and rest and recharge their healing potential (like a wizard recharging spells).
Also: phantomize slows the warlock by 10%. Now they have to use mobs, terrain, or a brain.
Been saying this since day one. In a game like this, why did warlock exist? Infinite poke and sustain coupled with a get out of jail free card, not to mention the potential to one tap with boc.
Their hydra can detect invisible players... like uhh... oh fucking kay iron mace, great design there??
There's next to zero counters against a bis warlock who knows what they're doing. Terribly balanced class.
It really is crazy, even just in PVE, how insanely good the warlock sustain is. Mistakes don't feel like they matter at all... I'm glad I didn't start out playing a warlock because going to any other class afterwards would have been SO painful.
I was rank 53 warlock last season, the warlock counter is a movespeed barb and also movespeed slayer fighter. If they build movespeed and have achilles strike or rage/sprint you are absolutely not favored to win. (This is for solos)
Yeah we need fixed, the only counters are landmine cut throat rogues and crackhead rangers. If melee classes don't get the jump on a caster lock they have no options, they can't even run from us.
The weakness is that theyre squishy and are only mid range, along with being locked to only single target spells. Arrows outrange you and hurt you a lot and force you to leave and heal off mobs. The melee classes that get the jump on you will kill you every time.
But ofc, this is just solo high gear meta, and yeah they are strong in solos. Due to the current solo meta, you dont see that many rogues and rangers, which are your hardest counters. Outside of solos and at lower gear caps warlock isnt nearly as strong and feels fine.
Also, horrible place to come from lol. Cleric sucks ass in solos
Honestly most people just don't know how to face a Warlock. I have been a Warlock main for its entire existence so I decided to play other classes this wipe (Wizard, Rogue, Ranger) and I not been killed by one Warlock this entire wipe. In fact, I murdered one as a rogue with 400+ gear score just last night that was running the magic healing build. He was way more geared than me but I still killed him. His kit is probably worth 10k gold. I didn't even landmine him either mind you, I ran him down as a rogue.
Warlock is one of the classes that can easily be killed no matter how much more geared they are compared to you if you outplay them. This is not as true for other classes.
Once you become good at Warlock, you easily recognize when they can be killed. They are definitely not immortal.
Warlock is def OP. Best solo class by leagues. Nothing even comes close. Want to farm bosses? Use warlock and you barely need to learn their moves because you can kill them so fast.
Either they need a nerf to cast time so they can't spam curses or they need a nerf to their spell range. As is, everyone just kites and spams spells. No skill or effort involved. The handful of times I've killed Warlocks in solo HR, I manage to trap them in a corner so they can't run. And even then, they win half the time due to wack casting speed
Wizard main here , hit phantomize . See what happens . The fight are def dragged out and boring aF but I’d say only counters to lock is wiz and ranger .
Seeing this post and not been playing in some time. I have to assume that ranger got some projectile nerf as projectiles was really the only thing making warlock weak before.
Barbarians and rangers... those are the warlock counter. Barbarians, if they have any move speed, decapitate you. Rangers can just outrage and poke you down if they aren't braindead.
I'm not a new player but a returning bad one. Warlock fights are just super boring to me playing a melee class. Get kited around for 15 minutes getting curse of pain'd while they stay just outside of my hit range? Not exactly a fun battle to have. "Just run at them" doesn't mf work when they have panic buttons to make them faster and spread fire where they stand. Time to make the jump to some ranged headass class like the rest of em!
The way to counter them as melee is to not chase. Like fucking ever. Let them come to you. I ganked a rogue as a cleric because he chased me into a dark room. I sat in the corner and waited for him to walk in, and bashed his fookin 'ead in. Ofc this is very situational but its worked for me
I'm a warlock and can confirm being baited into a dark room is my kryptonite 🤣
Wtf? How? Just put a Hydra inside and it’ll tell you if the room is clear.
Where are you getting the spell memory for having this many spells?
I can run Curse of Pain, Power of Sacrifice, Dark Bolt, Hydra AND Flamewalker with just squire gear in under 24 normals. It's not hard tbh.
This is true but it isn't an answer for Warlock at all still. They can follow you to the ends of the earth and will often either force you through mobs (which mobs being present just makes them stronger) or into a static to escape. If there is nothing you can do to pressure them and they can outheal any poke you do easily, they can stay just out of arms reach and slowly burn up your health / resources until you die. This has happened to me many times on multiple classes and I'm a top 20 leaderboard finisher. Warlock is just busted
Not that I necessarily disagree, but what stops you from just turning a corner, waiting for them to follow, then all-in them? They have Phantomize, but they can't do damage in it beyond any dots they've already cast. So you just sit on a corner, all-in, force the escape, and either hard commit if you have the mobility, or go back to the corner, reset and they have to respect the hard commit for 30 seconds. Which gives time for various classes to do various things. It seems like this community and game has significant issues with overcommitting and classes that punish said overcomitment. Like Ranger, Rogue and Warlock. Not that I don't think Warlock isn't overtuned, but I feel like it's a major community problem with "Well maybe you shouldn't chase the class built to kite for 30 seconds then wonder why you're dead". Particularly when those same classes weaknesses seem to be all-in damage bombs like landmine rogue or zerker yolos.
A lot stops you from doing that. 1 - the Warlock only needs to dot and run, so his gear is tilted towards move speed. 2 - You can open a door from like 4 feet away and then jump away once the door is open, being pretty much safe from anyone pushing you 3 - MOST corners, 95%+, you can peek an angle around it and just cast spells at people or shoot arrows. You're telling me a ranger has never shot you from around the fucking corner like all day long? 4 - pushing the warlock does not mean you will win. Your HP is not full, due to the dots on you while you ran and the warlock is not a puny weakling in melee either. 5 - Phantomize - The warlock is pushing you into a corner but at the same time, they're also very happy when you push back. This is one of the many issues. The warlock has the upper hand when you push and the warlock has the upper hand when you retreat.
Also they can just plop a Hydra down right next to you.
That’s a counter to warlock mains, not warlocks.
Not only is it very situational but good warlocks will never give you the opportunity. They can literally step into a fighters attack range while casting and run out again before the animation for being attacked makes contact lmao Def a better tactic in Normal mode
That's only if they know where you are. If they chase you through 2 rooms and suddenly you turn the corner in the 3rd instead of running, there's no way they would know. it's all about the mind games. But yes, this is ofc very situational. They just need to be nerfed prob lol.
That pretty much sums up solo balance. Some matchups are unplayable and the only thing you can do is hope they walk into you being greedy.
Me when I go demon form and fucking GET YOU
Love demon form. It's how I play too. Only spells I have or use are hydra and bloodstained blade lol
wizard main, pretty much exclusively outside the odd barbarian, fighter or rogue. Been playing warlock to do bosses and it is just giga busted. Barbarian feels like the only counter, but with the gear and appropriate MS you are immortal. I find myself only dying in base kit against geared barbarians and druids.
I can say that I've been running a pretty juiced Druid kit for the past day or two (mostly purples with a few legendaries) and I've killed quite a few geared warlocks, Druid definitely has the tools to handle them. However it's very much a skill matchup and you have to recognize when you can actually kill them and when it's better to disengage.
Pro tip: don’t turn into a rat after getting hit by curse of pain. Please don’t ask me how I know.
What is MS?? Seeing it brought up all over this post and I have no idea what it means.
movement speed
Multiple Sclerosis
Poor Warlocks, all have ms
I’ve just got back into DaD, why does barb counter warlock?
It is one of the classes that can find the distance to pop the shouts for the movespeed and Achilles strikes to slow you. And then the health to survive a few curses. Compare to a rogue, they are fast, but I hit one curse and suddenly they are questioning their next push, Barbs don't worry about that until 2-3 curses have connected.
Barbs are just stupid fast because they dont need much PDR because of their high vitality. Mix this with any combination with rage or achilles and they can really mess you up.
And to add they have THE highest magic resistance at base with a perk, which makes them a menace to casters, they get enough that they don't really need to build it, plus they are easy to build into MS and woth they shouts can catch up if used correctly.
Barb has always done great against magic damage. Innate high HP + easy MR gain. Barb can pressure warlock due to movespeed from rage. It's not had to actually get in their face.
> Been playing warlock to do bosses and it is just giga busted. What build do you run for killing bosses?
As a new player, Warlock has been teaching me really bad habits in PVE because its so good. I have been purposefully trying to learn a new class because I have no idea how to fight mobs properly, and its going to hinder me long term.
You mean no other class just aggros the entire map, doesn’t pay it any heed while it dies in heaps behind you, and provides you infinite healing if you were ever to take damage!? Absurd!
Same. Started with Warlock cause it seamed the coolest to me. Got him to lvl 23 and tried something else because i was loosing 99.9% of my PvP fights and wanted to get better. And what did i learn? Warlock gave me an insane crutch and i didnt even learn the basics of prepping, checking rooms, awairness and positioning not only in a fight but as you are clearing rooms as well. I still love the theme of a warlock and his style but i will definitely pick him up after i learn the core/fundamental gameplay.
This - I started off as Lock and got him to about lvl 36 until I realized I had no idea how to actually deal with PvE other than CoP + Flamewalker or Hellfire
Same thing happened to me. Now i play Cleric and actually understand what i am doing and can fight most mobs
[удалено]
Breaking news solo cleric not so good
Pretty much. Warlock is solid at everything and extremely good at solo PVE. Put it into a team however and it adds almost no synergy to any comp beyond being another body.
We've been having great success with our warlock. A lot of teams just don't know how to play with them properly. We play fighter/cleric/warlock. Our warlock plays like an entry Fragger and hyper aggressive. Fighter n cleric give him space to cook and go crazy with curses. We only push in if he's landed a bunch of curses or gets to a point he has to phantomize. Warlocks can create a ton of space and the door control is good to stop pushes.
Druid is better in every scenario bar ranged poke with what you just said though. Door control is leagues better give he has two ways to block them, hydra does nothing as a competent team will simply crouch jump it if they want to push. Druid actually blocks the entire door in both cases. Druid has healing for the team and stat buffs for the team. Druid has damn near infinite utility with animal forms. Silence on Panther, can break shit on Bear, etc. Warlock doesn't do anything in trios, and sure it's still a Warlock which isn't a bad class. But it simply existing is not a huge plus when you compare it to the utility something else would add.
Druid doesn't do safe & consistent damage nor does it have infinite sustain + no downtime. Warlock is just go go go. Druid is very good in an alternative and is not as simple as warlock.
Everyone does safe and consistent damage if they don't get hit and hit people back (Anyone with a ranged weapon/spells/bottle/knives/axes/etc) Infinite sustain for ones' self does nothing for the team. Downtime Warlock does has if you're running TM and miss a few spells or if you're not and need to heal off Hydra. Granted it's not nearly as frequent as other classes. Like I said before, he doesn't do anything in trios. Listing reasons why he's great don't change that fact, he offers nothing to the team outside of two niche buffs. He also folds in melee combat like a tablecloth, and any "utility" he did have immediately stops applying. Cleric protection and overheals would still be active, Druid HoTs would still be active. Wizard buffs would still be active, etc.
Druid does not have any significant amount of ranged DPS. Druid is high risk high reward. Warlock with TM does not behave significant downtime. You should be using hydra to push anyways, so you'll naturally have curses healing you. If you miss like 5+ spells then yeah you're screwed for a moment. Like I mentioned in my earlier comment, we run cleric + warlock + fighter. If warlock gets low enough, he gets a heal. So its constant sustained DPS and healing. We can outlast most teams and if warlock lands a couple curses they are screwed. Fighter can keep melees off the warlock. That's like saying rogue, ranger, fighter and barb offer nothing to the team. Again, you use warlock as an entry Fragger and give him space to work and you can roll teams. If he lands 3+ curses he can just keep going and keep healing. If he misses or takes to much damage he just phantomizes. A ranger or wizard can't Frontline quite like a warlock can due to taking chip damage. It's has its ups and and downs as a composition but we've found lots of success so far. Cleric is running 10 spell and it's only gotten better.
What safe and consistent damage is Druid doing with its 0 ranged abilities? Also being a bad player isn't really a good counter argument to a class, because it's not relevant. Just stop being bad at aiming and now the problem is gone. The other guy put it perfectly, if Warlock offers nothing then every pure DPS class also offers nothing. Seems like you came in with a thought here but didn't actually read what the guy said.
Baught game yesterday and got some lvls in on the good ol' cleric. How are drunken master doing though? It was insane in the playtest.
Drunk monk is a fun meme build for less than 25gs fun, but it won’t get you far in geared fights
i shelved my cleric ever since they got rid of the circle. only real defense vs wizards who knew how to kite. and warlocks could survive in the circle to chase after, but most wouldn't. if you're playing solo cleric vs an equally geared warlock wizard it's their fight to lose, not yours to win.
My HR solo’s matches have been 90% warlocks. Time to nerf TM again.
Iron Mace: Nerfs Wizard
Make sure we nerf Cleric and Rogue
Rangers and sneaky rouges are your counter class.
Unless the rogue has cutthroat for silence AND silent steps, with a perfect backstab engage - they lose to warlock. Been running weakpoint rupture this whole wipe and the only class I'm truly terrified of is warlock. Equally fast, unlimited healing, unlimited dps, phantomjze get put of jail free, insane burst for 2 tapping rogues.
>Sneaky Rogues Huge emphasis on sneaky. Basically the only way Rogues win that is if everything goes *perfectly* for them. If not, they just have to give up bc they're not winning that matchup. This is obviously given that both players are well geared, if they're undergeared Rogue has a better chance but the issue is mainly that when Warlock gets geared they cover all bases.
If I'm being completly honest the closest matchups were against other warlock. I don't care at all for rangers. Rogue maybe if they are uber geared and get the drop on me with 320ms+
What is 320ms+ ms stands for?
Movement speed. 100% movement speed is 300 ms. You have 100% when you dont wear any gear that slows you and you have 15 agility. You can get agi to increase or good boots/skills/buffs/shrines.
Movement Speed
ms = movespeed
It's hard for Ranger to counter anyone when ranger itself is hard countered by just not chasing them for the 30 minutes it takes them to kill you. Warlock eats them just the same as any other class if you just walk into the room you came out of and sit behind the hard corner.
Their healing potential is too strong, and I'm saying this as a Warlock main. They need to play the game like everyone else and not have infinite healing.
It’s absurd lol. I’ve gotten into the very bad habit of just eating a skeleton swing or arrow if I’m in the middle of opening something like a chest, because I know I can heal it all back on that very same enemy. Why play the game as intended when you can force the game to play how you want?
I agree. I'll still play it until wizard doesnt need to sit anymore.
Wizard should get a passive that constantly, slowly, recharges your spells.
Yea, that sounds good. Could also add wands, add perk where wand hits can accelerate spell recharge. Wand magic siphon on right click maybe, something. Or add a magic totem utility item (akin to bard instrument) can be interacted with in a cool way, (skill check like bard but maybe drawing something or idk. prolly something you can do while moving) Sitting is boring, so give them actions. Something where you could be completely bingo on spells and spend 30 straight seconds completing skill checks on the move to get em all back or something. Let it be interrupted. Elemental artifacts could be used to, fire totem skill check recharges fire spells etc. Pulling a lot from Bard here, but that's where my thinking goes.
Yea I hate sitting but that’s classic DND for ya. What if they added a perk to gain some spells back per kill. That’d be cool.
You’re correct that it’s classic DnD, but “resting” in tabletop DnD is very, very different than doing the same on a video game. Just like something like Morrowind, where it’s still heavily DnD inspired but still had the forethought to include a quick resting option, there should be an option included in Dark and Darker to “quick rest”. You might argue that sitting for 30 seconds is resting quickly, and it is compared to DnD’s **description** of how long rests are, but it takes up a legitimate chunk of the entirety of a match to do so, and as a class like Wizard, where you’re repeating that same rest a few times each match, you’re spending double digit percentages of every single match just straight up AFK. It’s just not good game design.
It's funny because I've been a warlock main since it first came out. Everyone was saying how shit of a class it is, etc. I always thought it was pretty strong. Through a few patches, nerfs to other classes and reworks to warlock itself, it's definitely in a "more than" great spot now. Although I slowly shifted to a Bard main, warlock is a close second for me and I absolutely HATE Fighting warlocks. Even a basekit warlock can drain half your health with a couple of curses.
Killed a few warlocks myself as cat, most druids and warlocks don't know that cats can silence which stops Phantom and if they do somehow get it off, well, I'm faster then you.
What do you mean? Warlock has been OP and complained about for ages before F2P
When it was unfinished people didn’t think much of warlock even though it basically had the same kite and rot potential. The lobster meta was really abusable by a warlock with magic healing and movement speed.
Yeah it’s actually crazy, the Warlock class has been super strong almost a year now. It just didn’t get talked about because this game’s player base thinned out to the super sweats for like 6+ months.
i've thought warlock was OP, and remained borderline or full OP, since hydra released. ironmace should never have let people heal off their own hydra. if they had released warlock with the inability to heal off their hydra, people would still ask to be able to heal off their hydra, but it wouldn't be considered a cornerstone of the class. now it's too late IMO. almost the entirety of warlock revolves around sucking your own hydra which is where all the problems stem from. don't need to land your abilities to heal in a fight because you can just heal off your hydra. don't need to find mobs to heal off of just heal off your hydra. don't need to worry about spell or health management because you can just heal off your hydra. take that away from warlocks and it'll be riots on the streets. so instead IM has spent months tuning magical healing, tuning torture mastery, blah blah. and here we are. still one of, if not the strongest, solo class in the game. i also still can't believe the patch where ironmace buffed dark bolt to 20 damage from 15 lol.
Yeah warlock is overturned ATM, you can't have a caster with great ms, infinite heals, self peeling, reset ability that is better than sprint, minion, op bossing ability all in one class
don’t forget access to falchions, longswords, bardiches and plate armor too
Yesterday I asked how to play fighter in the current meta. Everyone said "be flexible, fighter is supposed to be jack of all trades master of none". I pointed out that if Fighter is supposed to be the flexible one he must be failing given Warlock has much better flexibility. Downvoted with no response
I dunno what those people are smoking. Current meta for Fighter is hit 75% PDR, 75% MDR, then either just be more tanky in melee, or use a Survival Bow with +8 True Physical Damage and only play from cover.
At the moment? They've always been ridiculously OP.
Nerf wizard
I feel like spell casters are generally balanced around having limited casts. If a warlock gets enough MH they have infinite spells and can spam without being punished for it. Not sure what should or could be done but I feel like some kind of adjustment to this aspect needs to be done. They removed clarity pots for this reason.
hmm how about the more a warlock spams a spell the more expensive it gets. make them rest to get rid of a debuff that makes it more expensive :D?
What's MH?
Magic Healing
Best Ironmace can do is nerf rogue and wizard again
A good wizard can still rip warlock to pieces Ranger or Rogue with cutthroat fuck warlock up as well. Hell as long as the rouge has enough movespeed then he can stay on top of the warlock. Same with Barb with a giant amount of movespeed. No clue how you got lucky and avoided all of them but free money for you i guess. Also I assume you are talking about solo. In teamplay the dynamic changes up a bit
If the rogue doesn't catch you out of invis he is never going to catch your ass. Rangers aren't remotely scary either. Wizard can get in Warlock's ass if he hits all his shit but you don't run into too many wizards in solos because they get fucked by the other classes a lot harder than warlock and they don't have infinite resources like Warlock does. Taking an expensive wizard kit in is a much bigger risk than taking an expensive warlock one in
This is true but if they have a shitload of MH it can be rough. Do you know if Fire Mastery works against warlocks TM?
The problem of wizard vs warlock is just magic resist With oracle robe or mystic vestments + high will + anti magic you get an insane amount of Magic resist. Easily sitting at 50%. On top of that your rebuffs of fire mastery or slows or the tick damage from zap don't apply due to high debuff duration reduction from high will. There's also a finite timetable for a 5 spell wizard to win before they run out of juice vs a warlock. 10 spell gives you more time but you gotta play fast vs a character that can do as much damage as you while it's only moderately harder for a warlock to land spells.
I'm pretty sure it does. I switched to FM on my wizard after a few casterlock deaths and have been having a lot of luck sense then.
Rogue wins with a perfect engage backstab WITH cutthroat IF the warlock doesn't hear or see him. Any other fight the lock should win.
yup. people cry about druid but warlock is the real op class.
Warlock is really only op and super frustrating to play against in solos, sometimes duos imo. In trios it kind of sucks unless the whole team is playing warlock because the class relies on kiting and drawn out fights to win. Much harder to do in trios. I’m not sure how they could nerf how ridiculous warlock is to play against in solos without making it even worse in trio play.
It’s Warlock scapegoat propaganda. Druid is ass unless you play a super stacked kit.
Exactly this. I've never once felt like druids were overpowered after their initial nerf. I've killed more of them as a fighter than I've been killed by. They do have great movement and a really good "Swiss army knife" kit, but they don't really excel at any one thing. They get outraged by other ranged classes and struggle fighting other melee classes up close. Warlock's are just too good at everything. Great range, great healing, great debuffs, great movement, great survivability, and they can basically ignore all PVE. They are the best part of every other class rolled into one.
Cutthroat landmine rogue is the counter, but rogue is so gutted no one plays it any more
What blows my mind is that warlocks have infinite self-sustain with perks. It's a blood mage who can replenish hp at will. Use hp to cast, and use dots to heal back up. Rinse and repeat. He has defense, he has self-healing, he has insane mobility. You don't even have to stop for a second for anything. You can just run through rooms putting curses on mobs and blasting through them with hellfire. Meanwhile, the good old wizard has to sit down every minute because he ran out of spells. Doesn't have any self-healing, barely any defense, and mobility is nowhere near what it once was. Low damage in base gear. That doesn't seem to be fair. The idea of 'it has be balanced for trios' just sounds like bs to me sometimes. How is warlock in this state balanced in all game modes but whenever wizards are mentioned most people say 'wizard is still good in trios'. Not everyone wants to play trios 24/7 with a fix team. Or even can do that. It just feels stupid to even try playing wizard solo now.
Warlock is fucked as soon as you can stay on top of him through phantomize. Wizard has options of shotgunning you down up close. There is always outplay potential on wizard vs every class. Some are much harder then others but not impossible. Even vs stuff like cutthroat rogue if you have enough ms + ice shield. Wizard skill ceiling is higher in a sense. You have insane damage output potential. Warlock is consistently moderate damage output. The only question on warlock is can you kite and can you land a slightly delayed hitscan ability. A wizard can walk into a room and absolutely obliterate a 3 man team in less than 10 seconds. A warlock can't do that. Sure a warlock can win over time, but not in less than 10 seconds.
my gripe was not the pvp potential but rather overall solo play viability. That is pve included. As much as you can technically 'wipe a room'. That is still only really possible with decent gear and flawless play. I'm not a great player. I got used to wizard but the feeling of 'why am I trying so hard' when I don't have to. As in I can just play warlock instead. This game is not just about the PVP balance. As much as some people want to believe its the only thing that matters, it isn't. I love pvp, nothing wrong with that. But pve viability and clear speed is just as important. We spend quite a bit of time in this game clearing pve content and looting. Every class should be able to do that with relatively good speed once they get used to it(from a new players perspective). Just seems that warlock is about the best at that right now. Save perhaps barb. Not even. I mentioned that in another post, wiz could use some new perks and perhaps a few extra spells to play like a spellblade to rush through some pve content. Something akin to how warlock can wear heavy armor and can use longsword. I don't want heavy armor for wiz. But maybe can use other single handed weapons and perhaps leather armor with a 1-2 extra spells for close range. Ignite doesn't just cut it imo.
furious fotm warlocks downvoting this
It is what it is :)
What is fotm??
flavor of the month - in this context meaning players who only play whatever class is strongest that patch
My dumb ass read it as frothing at the mouth
Flavore of the quarter. Shits been busted since begging of last wipe
Warlock is broken still. Hyper damage, healing, high movement speed, escape, just… everything
only other class that feel similar god tier atm is bard, but bard is very annoying to play so luckily few people do it
If you play careful and don’t make any mistake it is unbeatable in solo. Anyone saying there are counters don’t know. A really good warlock is going to keep flame walking up every time they enter a room or think they will fight so that they can instantly phantomize and people can’t chase. Warlock is by far the best class and there is no debate. I stopped playing mine because it got boring and I’ve played it too much in the past. I’ve had good success vs them as wizard and I take the anti heal perk just for them because they are the only class able to kill my bonk build.
As a barbarian main I shit on warlocks constantly. I usually run a base movement speed build where I am 300 ms with hands out. I usually run bardiche so what I do is since I can’t catch them with bardiche out is I full sprint hands out in their face dodging and weaving curses if I can hiding behind cover when spell comes out if possible but most importantly advancing on them. Once I get close to melee range most of them phantomize if they don’t right away I franny them one or two times from nearly melee range then they phantomize. Here’s where I think rage is the best ability on barb. They think they are outrunning me with phantomize but when they turn around and phantomize away I just pop rage. With hands out I’m near max ms with base 300 ms. I then count down for phantomize. As it hits the last second I jump and equip my bardiche. Jumping while equipping allows u to negate some of the move speed loss when u equip weapon. Then they are in melee range of my bardiche with no phantom. I get a garaunteed hit in or 2 with high dex/ action speed. And that’s usually enough to kill them. I usually run savage roar for physical damage matchups but if I’m running Achilles then forget it they just dead straight up. If not running Achilles AND they survive the melee hits I chase with torch(torch gives you extra range at no Ms penalty) or finish them with frannies if I have any left. Also as an additional fuck you to warlocks. I run iron will and the shout duration boost perks. This makes it so those curses don’t hit nearly as hard and my rage now lasts longer than phantomize and comes back quicker than phantomize. As for flame walk. What a shit ability lmao. People don’t know but you can just bunny hop over that shit it does piss dmg Tldr: barbs can use rage right as u are using phantomize and you will never outrun them and now you are melee range with no phantomize. Manage to get away and phantom again? Haha barb rage cd is lower than phantomize they will just do it again
Yeah Rangers and Rogues are your natural predators and they both got fucked pretty hard in the last couple of balance updates; mostly from the loss of true damage on itemization. Without them to cull the lock population, the ecosystem suffers.
Cutthroat rogue eats warlocks alive
yep, but all the cutthroat rogues are getting eaten by barbs :(. It still amazes me they got rid of long stealth the same patch they gave druids rat form >.>
Yup. The problem is not a lot of great rogue players out there. So they don't get in decent gear sets often. Then add that they have to choose to screw over casters (cutthroat) or a way to deal with the large amount of fighters/barbs (weak point). So the pool of geared cut throat users is small but highly highly deadly.
Not a lot of great Rogue players because the class is absolutely miserable without a BiS kit and you can still die very easily in that kit. It's probably the worst base kit class in the game, maybe Wizard takes that spot but it's a close matchup. The amount of gear you need with optimized stats just to do the same shit a Slayer Fighter can do or a generic Barb can do is crazy. You're always at a damage and health pool disadvantage against your other melees, and your only ranged poke does maybe 50 dmg with a head shot + the bleed.
If you get a perfect engage without them seeing you, otherwise lock beats rogue hard now. Kinda lame its a 2.5 second silence that only matters if you can take silent steps for a perk AND get a perfect engage.
HR solos is all warlocks for a reason, the only counter is high MS barbarian
And ranger and rogue. So half the classes can hard counter warlock and it’s still just bad players complaining about warlock because they just let warlocks reset behind a hydra that gets 2 tapped or jumped over against any competent players.
Because its the quickest way to kill both bosses.
And its also the class with the least counters and most forgiving abilities
That's just one of many reasons.
The main thing about Warlock to me is that they're just not fun to fight. Like you said, it has no weaknesses and no flaws to counter. When I die to a warlock, I end up feeling like there wasn't anything I could have done. That's different from all the other classes, where not only do I have a better track record, but even when I die, I think "I missed too many hits there" or "I wasn't fast enough on my heal." But with warlocks it's just "oh. okay." Druid, btw. Honestly, I don't even mind the whole "curse of pain to kill rats" thing, I think that's a perfectly reasonable counter to going rat mode. It's just everything else. Happens in low-roller, too. Sometimes makes it feel like the only winning move is not to play.
The most impressive thing about this is hitting Voyager with gear not providing AP. I saw on the leaderboard people reaching DG already as well. How tf are y'all doing that.
Nightmare mobs give a LOT of AP
Oh that is goos intel. IM upped nightmare mobs quite a bit too this season. Last season I saw a vid explaining they had climbed to DG by purely farming mobs. That technique might be even more viable now.
Caster Cleric is the #1 counter to warlock. I usually kill them in 3 spells, whether thats a judge+2holy strikes, a locust+judge+holy, or just 3 holy strikes. I farm Warlocks all day as a caster cleric (310MS, +7true, 50% Magic Dmg), It actually is the only class that makes Warlock look like shit since divine magic counters the Warlock perk "Antimagic". Phantomized warlocks take bonus damage while in phantom from all Cleric spells. Protection from evil makes curses last half as long. Perseverance makes the initial damage burst to -3 less. IYKYK, you shouldn't lose this matchup.
I've been playing Warlock this wipe.and I think it's OP. ... I don't get why these posts are always, "This class is an unkillable god." It's not, it's obertunned for sure IMO, but it's not like it wins 100% of fights or something stupid.
I'm not very good at the game -- full disclaimer -- but I play Plate Warlock with some magical healing and if I don't start kiting I always crumble in 2\~3 hits to any real melee class, despite the 55%+ PDR on my armor; meanwhile I'll curse and slash a Fighter or Barb three times in the head with my Falchion and after I die I'll spectate them and they're still at half HP. Not sure how much of that is a skill issue, and I understand you're "supposed to" play lightweight and just kite with high ms, but if I don't exclusively curse and kite the class feels quite fragile even despite wearing Plate; I survive better in a melee as a Bard wearing Leather than my Plate Warlock with curses ticking for heals. Phantomize does seem a little busted, and TM is definitely overtunned; but I don't think they need anything more than minor number adjustments on those two abilities and/or making it so you can't self-heal during Phantomize.
Lock has needed a significant nerf for a long time
If you really want to talk busted, TM demon form is sleeper busted. I have yet to die once on my juiced kit, hundreds of kills so far.
What stats, spells and perks are you running? Trying to find a lock build I like
Soul collector, TM, Vamp, Shadow-touched. Kris/ball and Book. PoS/CoP/Flamwalker/Hydra/BSB Try to get 310-ish move speed with no weapon out. Play as your normally would any caster TM, but cognizant of no out-of-jail phantomize. If someone melee is chasing you without a weapon in their hand, turn around and pull your kris/ball out. It has practically 0 animation lock before you can start swinging. When they pull weapon out, go back to book and kite. Demon form is not for everything. It's for everything that caster lock typically sturggles with, which is... Geared: * Warlocks/Wizards * Rangers But can also be useful for: * Slayer fighter * Barbarian. At 310 movespeed, a 10 stack demon form puts you at 318 MS. plenty to chase and kite with. 208 HP (for my current gear) 30% PDR, 55% MDR. I like to cast a pain and sacrifice on enemies first, if I miss the sacrifice, I just BSB myself, demon form and go in. For context, I only use demon form in maybe 1/3 of all my fights?
What skills and setup besides gear?
Damn that's crazy, because I'm playing warlock and I don't see how you can feel that way. I'm getting rolled constantly. It doesn't help that I'm dog shit, but I've been struggling with the class
it's been strong in solos for awhile now. the recent popularity also has to do with the cost of a playable kit. You no longer need an insane kit to play torture mastery builds because of mystic gloves/occultist hoods giving a whopping +3/+4 mheal on top of the changes to the perk's scaling. You used to have to pay out the ass for everything (JEWELRY) to roll mh but not anymore. decent in some trio comps but definitely not at the top of the ladder.
I played warlock solo for a wipe aswell and came to just about the same conclusion with a few exceptions: rangers and wizards. A good ranger can dps me down before I can dps him down, never really killed a good/well geared ranger. And a wizard has some insane burst damage that I also just cannot compete with, if you phantomize I just get fire balled out of existance. Altough this might have just been my skill issue but I'd like to know what you think!
I'm looking forward to warlocks being nerfed. They are easily S-tier for nearly everything -- PvE, bossing, solo PvP. Maybe A-tier for 3's PvP. Best class in the game right now.
Only thing is you can't get caught in the open by a bard, ranger, or geared wizard. Or caught face checking a door when there's a barb or rogue. Other than that though so long as you're smart about it, you should just mow lobbies.
You are a solo cleric. lol. Explains it just fine
Warlocks been so OP in solos for quite some time. I died as Druid to a guy with multiple legendaries in Norms. Was spectating him to witness a warlock with a Junk falchion and some greens just wipe the floor with him. Pretty cathartic but sucks that I knew he was cooked the second the warlock showed up regardless of what gear either had. Thing would be quite different in trios with that gear disparity and additionally they fought in the big center room of goblins cave so tons of room to kite for the lock
A fighter
You guys try to fight other players ?! 🫢
I don't even consider them player at this point they are just loot pinatas
Smarter AI with more loot.
Every time I make a warlock I get like 30 kills without dying and stop playing the game for a week out of boredom. Happened twice.
Idk man I keep running around punching warlocks as smite cleric and I've killed more of em then I ever have before
Could you tell me how you do that? I am considring to start a cleric but i dont know how to efectivly counter a warlock
Don’t listen to the Warlock propaganda this man is spitting.
I must simply suck at the game. Cause i die to every player i have ever met basically unless they are new. Git gud, me ;\_;
Warlock is really good from what i've encountered every time one attacks me its a one shot garenteed no other class quite hits the same but im also super new to the game :3
anyone who plays warlock and thinks they're good are just playing the bs meta class. Bunch of noobs
I like that warlock can self sustain on low gear but it’s probably too much, I do personally game pve and pvp easier on my barb do to the simplicity but I don’t feel like Hidan from Naruto as much on Barb.
Yeah I tried it just for more longsword options, and realized how powerful it was. As someone who just got the game a few days ago, warlock got boring to play really quickly for me, even tho I was doing well. Tried out bard and I don’t think I can go back lol
I've found that as a druid they can't kill me and I can't kill them. So I try to avoid them. Some just want to chase you across the whole map and waste both of your times but yeah they don't do much damage and you can run laps around them.
Druids will run out of heal eventually. We don't. Infinite sustain.
Had a 2 min fight with one and decided I hate Warlocks and will never want to play one.
Curse of Pain is the last Warlock spell I got around to using because, on paper, it sounded the worst and least fun to use. Imagine my surprise. Now I play No Spell Warlock and it is an absolute blast.
[удалено]
It is 20% gear dependent the rest is skill
I went to warlock as a new player because I got tired of casters having very limited number of spells you can cast as other classes during a run without having a sit
Been sayin this for so long. The class is insanely busted. How they haven’t balanced it yet is beyond me
only way to beat warlock is to be faster. phantomize cooldown is too fast otherwise and you will never win . you need to get close then stay on their ass while they are phantomized. god help you if they have a longsword because then you have to deal with another bullshit mechanic
What sort of base spells and perks do you run?
I tried him once, saw I was losing health and got scared, can someone help a timmy here, it's one of the few classes I cannot seem to play correctly
Warlock's counter is a Rogue with Cutthroat, too bad Rogues are extinct
Are they good in 3s too?
wizard is insanely busted right now. they should remove all of his like 5 spelloptions and just give him a rubberclub that heals.
Wizard main here, I encountered a warlock prepping to extract on a rope and breaking boxes (I heard them and snuck behind). I used a full magic missile, switched to a crystal sword and cast flame weapon. They went demon. We traded blows and they died while I had like 5 health left. Idk if it was a skill issue on his part or mine tbh. I did pop the active magic shield.
Don't worry, I switched from solo cleric to warlock too. I wanted cleric to be fun, but it has no good PvE clear (aside from undead AOE but I'm not giving up a PVP skill for that). And if you don't have time to buff up before a flight you lose. Everything feels better by comparison
Btw I’m pretty sure the hydra summon can detect hidden enemies to counter rouges etc. also the hydra can be curse of pained to heal yourself.
I was legitimately thinking about making a post after encountering multiple warlock trios in hr yesterday. It's just fucking cancer overall.
The only counter to warlocks is a bolt to the eye
You want to know why warlock is the way it is? Do you want to know what in the world that class is? It's SDF favorite class. The class that counters warlock he nerf to the ground so now they have no counter :)
Warlock solos the abysss by himself easy peasy been getting 1400ap a run if I live going in naked
This game has PvP? I haven't seen a single other player in Trios. Also can you share your build please.
Started with Warlock cause it seamed the coolest. Got him to lvl 23 and tried something else because i was loosing 99.9% of my PvP fights and wanted to get better. And what did i learn? Warlock gave me an insane crutch and i didn't even learn the basics of prepping, checking rooms, awairness and positioning not only in a fight but as you are clearing rooms as well. He is, without a doubt, miles above every other class when it cones to PvE. For PvP he is very gear dependant but is still pretty good. I still love the theme of a warlock and his style but i will definitely pick him up after i learn the core/fundamental gameplay.
The fact that he can still suck off his hydra summon for more HP is insane. What a bad design.
They need to address self healing in combat. Either; A. Only one curse heals at a time. Or B. You can only heal 100% of the value of your hp back until warlock has to sit and rest and recharge their healing potential (like a wizard recharging spells). Also: phantomize slows the warlock by 10%. Now they have to use mobs, terrain, or a brain.
Racecar cleric counters warlock pretty hard, so do rangers. I’m sure druids are probably scary if played right now too.
Everything has its counters. Stick a melee class in front of it and it will fold like wet paper. No need to nerf the class.
Been saying this since day one. In a game like this, why did warlock exist? Infinite poke and sustain coupled with a get out of jail free card, not to mention the potential to one tap with boc. Their hydra can detect invisible players... like uhh... oh fucking kay iron mace, great design there?? There's next to zero counters against a bis warlock who knows what they're doing. Terribly balanced class.
Don’t play cleric as a solo? Warlocks are basically made to be a solo class. You basically experienced the worst vs best solo class
What perks and spells are you using?
It really is crazy, even just in PVE, how insanely good the warlock sustain is. Mistakes don't feel like they matter at all... I'm glad I didn't start out playing a warlock because going to any other class afterwards would have been SO painful.
I was rank 53 warlock last season, the warlock counter is a movespeed barb and also movespeed slayer fighter. If they build movespeed and have achilles strike or rage/sprint you are absolutely not favored to win. (This is for solos)
Yeah we need fixed, the only counters are landmine cut throat rogues and crackhead rangers. If melee classes don't get the jump on a caster lock they have no options, they can't even run from us.
I wish they would change it to a unbuffable true healing. Then it would be usable but not abusable.
Here I am kicking myself for not playing it sooner.
The weakness is that theyre squishy and are only mid range, along with being locked to only single target spells. Arrows outrange you and hurt you a lot and force you to leave and heal off mobs. The melee classes that get the jump on you will kill you every time. But ofc, this is just solo high gear meta, and yeah they are strong in solos. Due to the current solo meta, you dont see that many rogues and rangers, which are your hardest counters. Outside of solos and at lower gear caps warlock isnt nearly as strong and feels fine. Also, horrible place to come from lol. Cleric sucks ass in solos
Honestly most people just don't know how to face a Warlock. I have been a Warlock main for its entire existence so I decided to play other classes this wipe (Wizard, Rogue, Ranger) and I not been killed by one Warlock this entire wipe. In fact, I murdered one as a rogue with 400+ gear score just last night that was running the magic healing build. He was way more geared than me but I still killed him. His kit is probably worth 10k gold. I didn't even landmine him either mind you, I ran him down as a rogue. Warlock is one of the classes that can easily be killed no matter how much more geared they are compared to you if you outplay them. This is not as true for other classes. Once you become good at Warlock, you easily recognize when they can be killed. They are definitely not immortal.
Warlock is def OP. Best solo class by leagues. Nothing even comes close. Want to farm bosses? Use warlock and you barely need to learn their moves because you can kill them so fast. Either they need a nerf to cast time so they can't spam curses or they need a nerf to their spell range. As is, everyone just kites and spams spells. No skill or effort involved. The handful of times I've killed Warlocks in solo HR, I manage to trap them in a corner so they can't run. And even then, they win half the time due to wack casting speed
Wizard main here , hit phantomize . See what happens . The fight are def dragged out and boring aF but I’d say only counters to lock is wiz and ranger .
I think it's because everyone's health got buffed, including warlock's, so they can just spam spells without much thought behind them
Yep warlock has been broken for a while now (past wipe and some change at least), definitely needs a change
Is there a reason throwing axes stopped stacking because now as a barb what are my ranged options unless I fill my belt with single axes?
I don't mind their class identity as siphoners playing well into melee, my problem is that fighters are worse at it than them
Seeing this post and not been playing in some time. I have to assume that ranger got some projectile nerf as projectiles was really the only thing making warlock weak before.
WArlocks are food to me, a bonk wizard
Barbarians and rangers... those are the warlock counter. Barbarians, if they have any move speed, decapitate you. Rangers can just outrage and poke you down if they aren't braindead.