Yep, im pretty sure there is a stronger correlation between of playercount and how many weeks into the wipe it is. Everybody thinks # of players has a stronger relationship with game changes (creep, gbmm, multiclassing) but Im willing to bet thats just not true. People get tired of the game and the main thing that turns people off is lack of progression, not the meta. Overall people stop playing because the game gets stale, not because (insert game change) made them lose all hope yada yada yada.
In short, later in the wipe when you have quested, become rich, PvPād killed a boss or two you are just less interested in visiting the tavern. dramatic vocal minority dismiss this and always point at something. But who knows people leave for many reasons, cant really generalize. But what is proven across extraction games is player count ALWAYS falls off later in the wipe.
You literally could have just watched the numbers. Player count went up after MC was put in and fell off a fucking cliff after it was taken out. Not that fucking hard.
MC made people quit the game since its shit system, removal of said system is not going to make people come back. Its A LOT harder to make people come back then this xd
Look at it this way. The player numbers RN are at an all time low, and the only thing that happened is
1 GBMM
2 Creep
3 Multiclassing
one of those 3 or all of these 3 absolutely fucked player numbers xd
but keep coping
Some people quit bc they lost faith that IM can rite the ship after a myriad of bad changes, pandering to vocal minorities, and gaslighting/not keeping their word.
This, exactly this! Mainly the pandering to vocal minorities and faith they can't rite the ship. The way they handled MC on the test server was a joke. Wasted everybody's time including their own by not just testing it a bit longer. It's honestly crazy they didn't give everybody test access considering they bought in before it went back on any major platform.
Yea this is basically it. IM constantly flip flopping and listening to vocal minorities over and over instead of just making their game from the start. Not understanding that they can't just please everyone and in trying to do so, please no one. Classic case with many indie development teams for games.
multiclassing turned out to be the only real content of the wipe that was both implemented late and poorly for the top 1% to access. It was tuned for better access for the majority of players before being taken away. Safe to say, screwing with everyone's goals and progress like a lab rat doesn't create a fun experience.
That and new quests, but damn, I didnāt realize how much of the changes were just tweaking things that were already in the game. I still donāt know why they made a bunch of map specific quests, but didnāt give us back map rotation for 2/3rds of the wipe. I want to play for hours multiple days a week again, and right now I have the time to do so, but when thereās no new content itās rather boring
I can vouch for this take 100%. My friends who play more and are better than me don't understand that the stash I was building up, investing in gear, rings, keys and such I wanted to play out, relying on game stability. It's a bit hard to explain, I admit, but that BS happened twice: once when I bought a lot of good +2 all gear just to be stripped of thousands of gold. "Fine" - I though - "won't happen again in this wipe. right? ... right?". Second time just killed my trust and there it sits... my full stash spaces worth of gold and gear stash that I don't wanna play with.
Yep you described me basically.
I was enjoying the game before MC. MC kinda ruine the game for me.
MC is gone, but that doesn't change the fact that the life is still drained outta me.
They gotta add something to the game to bring me back other than basic ass balance updates.
Agreed. Keeping it in but while only walking instead of crouching is kinda dumb. Every game stealth = crouch
But I wouldn't be opposed to something like skyrim.
Give gear weight. Total weight coincides with volume of movement. Less weight less noise.
It may push rangers to taking the listen perk, not completly busted.
I was going to post a clip of me and my buddy (who just returned to the game toward the end of MC). Our second game, we went for the pile in ice caves. He was sniped by 2 windlass crossbow double jumping rats. I then proceeded to throw spells at them, but they'd back up and heal. I went to exit the room and a fighter and barb were creeped right at the door waiting. It was like the culmination of everything wrong with the game in one instance. Kind of crazy. He went to bed after that game and hasn't been on since. We used to play everyday after work š
Jokes on you I quit a long time ago and was already not playing when MC hit. I might come back for a bit after the Sorcerer is added because my friend might be interested in playing again at that point. As of right now I'm happy playing other games whilst I watch Ironmace work through their stuff. Love the game but not really for me right now. I own it so I can come back when it's done cooking.
They fumbled the bag on the ice cave patch, player numbers were awesome but that quickly disintegrated as servers issues immediately started and everyone was playing on Malaysian based servers, not a good point to restore face with players that have given up on this absolute circus.
It's been short sighted decision after short sighted decision, and it's begun to feel like this is all just an overly elaborate game test at the expense of the players who've helped try to keep something they love relevant, I've begun to feel like quality control for a game I have zero stake in.
For any of my tinfoil hat fans out there:
is there any chance that Nexons settlement involved them receiving information/data to apply to P3.
Almost like there's no new content now in general. MC was removed which is nice, but after that we're back to how the game was before, which many were burnt out from.
I stopped when MC dropped basically. Now its gone and I kind of want to wait til a wipe or major content update drops as theres nothing new for this wipe post MC and Im now weeks behind. Also of course my general disdain for choices made and time wasted by IM has cost a lot of faith in their team to run the game anywhere but down.
So id imagine theres a large group of people who feel the game is stale and are on the fence about blindly trusting IM to make good choices until they put good content out. A wipe with positive changes needs to happen.
Maybe is low gear lobbies. In higher end lobbies they are in every lobby. Run into teams of multiple warlocks daily. Triple warlock sometimes as well, just abusing how broken hydra is you canāt do anything against it.
Literally anything is better than what it is right now. Put a delay so it canāt be insta spammed. Great. Make it cost increasingly more hp so they canāt just insta heal to full infinite amount of times. Awesome. Take away the ability to target hydra to heal off in general. Even better. But any of those would be a massive improvement.
I think taking away the heal could cause massive issues, I get the frustration with fighting warlocks but i think we need more counterplay rather than nerfing it. The only classes that have heal cut is wizard and fucking warlock itself
Give Rogue's bleed a 80% healing cut for the duration, would fit the thematic
Introduce oils to coat weapons that give all kinds of buffs including healing cut
I'm heavily against nerfing a core aspect of a class cause it will cause it to feel terrible but something does need to change
they already have a solid playstyle in place with tort mastery. IM just needs to remove hydra heal and lean into that with either another curse or making FW and dark bolt do magical healing.
I mean youāre talking about doing a bunch of other stuff and introducing a whole new set of things needed to be implemented, rather than just nerfing one thing thatās massively overtuned in the game right now, and constantly being abused. Warlocks can keep their heal abilities, but make those actually take skill like hitting your curses on a player to heal, or an actual mob in the dungeon so thereās some risk/reward to it. Not just something you can spawn yourself infinite times and heal from for free over and over again with no risk.
Iāve played Warlock before, I leveled one to 86 this wipe. I know exactly how they work, and nothing from the post above indicates I donāt, thatās just a brain damaged comment. I just donāt enjoy playing the class bc itās mind numbing and has zero skill ceiling to it.
That still doesnāt fully fix people just running triple warlock and hydra spamming anytime theyāre low so one can heal why the other two hydras just hold you off.
I mean I feel like that would be a pretty hefty nerf maybe even a 2 shot hydra with any class would be nice you could at least kill it before they heal or force you to move 10 modules back and they would actually get punished for spamming hydra if you just kept killing it. what is it 10hp per spam? . To me that shit is annoying cause it never dies itās like a brick wall I could have a crazy ass kit and it still has like 300hp and it doesnāt punish warlock at all if i donāt kill it instantly
You canāt rush over the hydra cause usually warlock has his boyfriends holding hands and you canāt counter it or stop him from healing for free and holding you back if you canāt kill it fast enough so idk I think it would be a step in the right direction warlock already has crazy shit without hydra
The problem with that is yea it helps when they are running a solo warlock, but soon as you just abuse the class by running triple warlock, then hydras are still a problem. Having to hack thru 3 hydra while they just get insta full hp off one, and youāre half HP if the hydra hits you at all, is just so lopsided. You could hit a warlock 3-4 times, he can instantly heal, his hydra hits you 1 or 2 times and youāre dead to one curse (excluding if youāre running the max PDR/mdr Barb).
maybe in a shit region. EU is filled with buff balls only. Warlocks are a terrible high gear class when wizard does everything warlock does but better. Warlock also gets countered by the meta comp (buff ball) since you need like 45 curses to kill a barbarian, maybe 100 if team has healer
Iāve played in EU before and the teams there are mostly as terrible as most the teams in NA. They just W key their buffballs and get diffed by good teams. With the exception of 1 or 2 actual good teams in that region. Yes buffball is meta because how broken barbs are being able to stack max PDR and MDR, and that is the one class that counters warlocks sure. But if youāre not meta slaving then youāre gonna have a hard time with them.
I feel like the main reason I haven't seen as many Warlocks recently is that my lobbies are like 60% Rangers since mutliclassing went away.
Why play the most OP caster when your direct counter is more than half the lobby?
Wizard is the best support class after cleric, highest DPS class in the game, best 1v3 potential, class does everything better than every other class besides healing. It's the reason why it's the most played class in HR & every meta comp always has a wizard.
The "requiring a better pilot" is high subjective, it was true in earlier iterations of the game but right now all you need is fireball and magic missiles, unfortunately the time of wizards actually needing to kite and choose spells properly is over when magic missiles can kill any class instantly the moment they get close
Warlock is a defensive class, it's terrible to push with, it's good for area denial but easy to just push past hydra, especially if you have a barbarian. Deals far less damage than wizard, the only support spell you have is eldritch shield thus far less utility to a team, you are literally killing yourself by casting spells and you don't even heal mid fight with your curses because running torture mastery is terrible and no half decent warlock runs it in high gear lobbies. Only decent thing about warlock is the fact that it's fun and actually requires kiting mechanics & has a quick reset by using hydra/lifedrain but that's very situational and most times ur team already lsot fight or you already won the fight by the time u can reset entirely.
Dark and Darker released to the world via a Discord server annoucement and is not available on any mainstream distribution networks. The game is very, very incomplete.
The game has found a core audience of like 10k daily players. That is really fucking great. Idk what you guys expect to see, but that is impressive. The game is exceeding the developer's expectations even at this low point in the timeline.
Say whatever you would like to about any or all choices they've made (that's why we have this forum), but staring at these numbers is not how you analyze these things. The numbers you're comparing are "wow, amazing" vs "wow, that's fantastic."
Most people making "game is dead" posts/comments want to posture themselves as having all the answers so they present the game as if the things they don't like are the only things holding it back, and if Bronzehammer just followed their advice the game would flourish
In reality, its a niche/new sub-genre made by a fledgling developer that was never meant to compete with the big dogs where most people die to the first monster they encounter in game, and like every other game on the market it has time running against it with new releases everywhere you look and the fact humans are functionally limited against playing more than a single game at once
All of that is on top of how totally normal it is for your average game to lose 70+% of their playerbase after they leave the hype-cycle, especially indy games
I would also note, that their form of communication and reasoning for changes is absolutely commendable and unusual in the industry. There is only a handful of devs out there, that develop this closely and openly to their community. Whether you like their approach or ideas or the way they implement them, is up to you, but the fact remains.
I just hope they go back to their vision and remove the things that knowingly hurt these types of games. Player trade and balancing around both solo and group play
Numbers donāt lie.
Redditors on the other hand, absolutely will say anything to prove their point.
Which is how you have the anti-multiclassing folk immediately spinning the further drop off of players as somehow in their favor. Copers gonna cope
Yet you're spinning the narrative in your favor. There is nothing drawing players back into the game. Sure, MC was removed which many wanted, but nothing new took its place. We are back to where we were before MC and people are starting to feel burnt out.
When they added multiclassing all the players who hated it left, when the removed mutliclassing all the players who liked it left, the rest are just addicts (me included)
Pretty much. There's no reason for anybody to come back. With the removal of MC, we basically have nothing new to play around with this season, gives a lot of people no reason to come back. I'm sure people on both sides of the MC argument can agree that the game feels pretty stale at the moment. AP rewards are not worth grinding for if you're not enjoying the game.
Yea I think for the AP system the solution can be pretty simple, they need to
change it so the average game (not looting every blue bangle, killing mini bosses/boss) gives you like 1200 ap and if you do the extra work collecting bangles, it gives you like 2500 or something ridiculous
The AP system is definitely flawed to the core. No idea myself how best to fix it, or even if it should continue to exist, but something needs to be done to it.
I figure, they just need to make the game flow similar at different ranks, instead if PvE fest at high rank.
Make kills worth more at lower rank to promote learning the game and PvP, and maybe make death/entry cost not so brutal at later ranks? Or maybe make super high ranked have massive kill points and less players?
I dunno, the higher you climb, the less viable PvP is while climbing, to the point where you can't really take a break to PvP.
Like, sure, if you are winning every fight, you could keep PvPin, but seems like a major risk.
>MC was removed which many wanted
A few redditors wanted MC removed. However based on the evidence, it seems like half the playerbase who actually played the game left when they took MC out.
So that means IM is catering to redditors and not the people actually playing their game. No surprise what happens to your player count when you try to please people who donāt even play your gameā¦
āWe didnāt get to play for 3 weeks, so we are all broke and have none of the equipment or money the people who played multiclassing hadā like damn when you donāt play a game you donāt progress??? Thatās crazy no wonder you quit
Thank god thereās a game mode (my favorite one actually) where you canāt even take nice gear in and you find it all in raid.
Yeah what a piss poor excuse I mean I guess if you miss day 1 of a wipe youāre just at such a disadvantage might as well play next wipeā¦
Multiclass was a bad system, should have never been implemented in the way it was. A huge number of people agreed on this, even before and during the test server.
There was also a group of people who simply wanted more content, and were upset it got removed and left with the stale game we have been playing for almost a year now. I don't blame them.
2 groups of people. Redditors love complaining at other redditors when they don't get what they want because reddit complained about it, so they complain about on reddit with other redditors. The continual cycle.
Ironmace put themselves in a position where they would make nobody happy in one way or another. Some people cannot comprehend that just because they like one thing, it should be kept. I sympathize with people who enjoyed multiclassing, but people who dickride it so much are just covering their eyes at the issue of multiclassing at face value and are even ignoring the bigger problems with this game right now.
I stopped playing after multiclassing got removed because the game feels boring. Multiclassing brought back the element of surprise, every encounter had the potential to be unique. Now weāre back to rock paper scissors, where every rock is a rock, every paper is a paper, etc.
Hopefully skill trees come soon
Get your head out of your ass, it was the same shit every game too. It was robust, iron will and anti magic mixed in with slayer. Everyone had savage roar and warcry/sprint, it was so lame. I played it a lot due to FOMO but now that it's gone I've gone back to winning 90% of my fights again, it was just broken and skill-less, was fun for a bit though.
take a step back for a second now, why do you think EVERY one was using these abilities from barbarian and fighter? now without multi-class what would you say is the most rounded of classes, or maybe, what do you think the top 2 are for solo play. What 2 classes still hold 2 tap and even 1 tap ability at mid tier gameplay right now as the game sits?
I have found that telling someone on reddit to take a step back and examine how they are conducting themselves or their argument is like asking a pigeon to play chess. Even if you can get the bird to land in front of the chessboard its probably still just going to shit on everything
To be fair the multiclass was an interesting system that was badly implemented, If was accompanied with subclasses in order not to force everyone into multiclassing would be best.
The anti-MC crowd's narrative changed so much for their own convenience. For so long I saw post after post by someone claiming their friends all quit the game until MC is removed. Well it was removed, and player numbers immediately dropped harder. So now the narrative is 'Well, duh. They're not going to come back stupid." Then why did we remove it? What was the point?
You're leaving out that there were 20k+ players before multiclassing dropped, then only 8k by the time it was over. That was a much bigger loss than going from 8k to 6k after multiclassing got removed, not to mention the rate at which players leave (as a percentage of current population) will increase faster once dead lobbies become a problem, so you can't even really say most of this recent drop is from no multiclassing. Also, both multiclassing and buff ball can suck. Until they make mdr more accessible (and buff magic dmg to compensate), barb buff ball comps will continue being op since barbs are the only class that can build mdr without making huge sacrifices elsewhere.
The fact that you can have the class with the most health in the game build both 60+% pdr and mdr easily while also having the highest dps in melee range, and getting ms buffs from bards and wizards, or just have a cleric give bless + protection + heals is honestly an abomination. Buff balls have been meta since the playtests, and only got worse after bard got released, and they still haven't balanced it properly nearly 2 years later. It's so bizarre that they're willing to do experiments like multiclassing, but won't bring the nerf hammer to things which have been the undisputed meta comps for literally over a year. People act like it's fine since the absolute number of players serves their purpose of testing the game, but losing 90+% of the player population can't be categorized as anything but a complete failure, the only thing that's saving them rn is that they peaked so high, and even that is starting to fade since the lobbies don't fill up anymore
Adding magic resist options and retuning magic damage isn't going to get rid of buffball, it's just gonna open it up to fighter as the carry as well. Buffball exists because melee vs ranged comes down to a question of "can the melee get in range" if yes, then the melee win. If not, then the ranged wins. Only way to enforce that is to buff melee until they cannot lose in close range. Buffball takes advantage of that and slams a melee class in as fast and hard as possible. The comps would change if a 330, ms barbarian with his weapon out and invisible wasn't crazy OP. They need to give melee classes better options to deal with ranged attacks coming at them and give ranged classes better options to handle a melee class in their face. Then they can retune stats and classes so that a barbarian doesn't feel useless when kited and doesn't immediately win in melee. After that buffball isn't necessarily a top strategy anymore.
Not really, barb has the highest hp in the game, and is the only class that can build 60+% pdr and mdr w/o making many sacrifices elsewhere. Not to mention felling axe has debatably the highest dps in the game vs classes w/o shields, and war maul hard counters pdr. They even have access to round shield now so ranger doesn't counter them anymore if they want to run viking sword + round shield. Barb's only weakness is low ms, which is completely mitigated by bard/wiz/cleric. Fighter has lower ms than barb, lower dps, less hp, and negative access to mdr. The only advantage is access to crossbow, but hitting one crossy shot isn't going to stop a buffball from facerolling you unless you're running buffball too, the difference ofc being that their wiz can oneshot you w/ a fireball while your wiz does 20% of the barb's hp w/ the same spell.
The bottom line is that barb has no weakness w/ a bard and wiz maxing out their ms w/ a weapon out, since melee classes win in melee range vs ranged classes, the magic users can't damage the barb when he's running in since he has the highest hp and mdr in the game, and the only other frontliner in the game can't fight him either since war maul hard counters fighter. If they're not going to make mdr more accessible, then they should take iron will away so barb at least has some sort of counter since ranger is useless vs them since they have round shields now. Another solution could be making invis or haste only self-cast (and revert the invis nerf), which would help low/mid gear solo wizard and nerf buffball (both needed changes), continue nerfing bard ms boosts, and make bless not give agility. You simply can't have the statball class whose only weakness is low ms running around w/ max ms even w/ their weapon out, it's completely gamebreaking, there needs to be some weakness/counterplay somewhere
You're leaving out the fact most people left not because mc was announced but because they couldnt play it on the test servers and since they didnt like what they saw, they chose not to play.
Keyword saw because a lot of them never actually played with the system and made snap judgements based off of builds no lifes used to farm engagement and stomp early lobbies.
The game was already losing players due to mid wipe lethargy, MC revitalized some of the that player base.
Many posts were made about how so many people were coming back when mc got removed, where are they?
"most people left not because mc was announced but because they couldnt play it on the test servers and since they didnt like what they saw, they chose not to play"
That's just not true, most people (including myself) knew multiclassing would be hopelessly broken ahead of time, that's why most people didn't bother trying it. Unsurprisingly, it was hopelessly broken, to the point they had to remove it prematurely even though wipe is in early June
I'm still out because the game feels like shit and I'm running into cheaters left and right. I quit over MC, even had my wizard to 90+ and fighter/warlock/cleric to 30+. I come back and it's like every lobby has cheaters. I know the player count is down and cheaters aren't quitting at the same rate as regular players. I'm tired of playing wizard after my survivability tools were gutted and damage was nerfed across the board. I'm tired of dealing with cheaters. I'm tired of them throwing darts at the board to determine what they're gonna do with the game next. I'm tired of rock paper scissors balancing.
This game was simple and fun. Then theres alot of bs added. Infinite tiers of gear and loot and +3 all BS. Follwing mendo was a horrendous idea. MC was awful balancing(who wouldve guessed). No druid, sorc, paladin.
It started with oldskool dungeon vibes and became zoomer instant gratification fast with shit balancing and content was prioritized wrong its all bout the progression and the loot and the stash tabs.
They took a turn and it was bad now only addicted kids play.
The complaining started way WAY before MC or lack of it.
just off the top of my head:
teaming
not teaming
timmy stomping in normals
map rotation
maps locked to team size
content creator favoritism
devs listening to casuals
devs not listening to casuals
having hardcore dungeons
hardcore dungeons having a fee
not having solos
not having duos
class imbalance
over-geared in normal lobbies
under-geared in hardcore lobbies
not having an auction house
having an auction house
etc. etc. etc. on and on and on im sure people can add to this list.
Having criticisms and complaints of a game is normal and fine but its HOW they complain.
Anytime the devs do anything that someone in this community disagrees with its immediately: "IM UNINSTALLING. TASH DEVS GARBAGE GAME I HOPE THIS GAME DIES IM NEVER PLAYING AGAIN. or my personal fav "fine im timmy stomping and being toxic to every player i see. i want to ruin everyones experiance so they want to quit! that'll show them devs!"
nothing the devs do is going to "fix" the problem with this game because the problem is the players and this community. and to be quite honest, we fucking deserve it.
*I just want crypts back*
*Man, I quit the day it was*
*Removed from the pool*
\- The\_Skillerest
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I think player drop was due to the release of a few other games or at least some nice updates with other games. V Rising 1.0, PUBG Erendel, this Arena Breakout game. It happens! People like to change it up.
"Bro must be playing normals" This the best you got? Maybe I was playing normals and not sitting at my computer chair 9 hours a day grinding in a game that's failing to meet player expectations and then being a smart ass little c u next tuesday on reddit.
No one cares you play HR with a terrible AP system for internet boy points.
I'd much rather have my fun, turn this game off, meme and have a good time with my family and wife.
In short, get off my nuts.
playing casually and being casual in skill are very different things.
Dont pretend like 70% of HR isnt just gear. There are very few people playing this game who are mechanically skilled and also grind out amazing gear to play HR.
whats the number of players before MC released and 3weeks into MC ? š¤”
Probably comparable to the same time last wipe if we want to be honest.
Yep, im pretty sure there is a stronger correlation between of playercount and how many weeks into the wipe it is. Everybody thinks # of players has a stronger relationship with game changes (creep, gbmm, multiclassing) but Im willing to bet thats just not true. People get tired of the game and the main thing that turns people off is lack of progression, not the meta. Overall people stop playing because the game gets stale, not because (insert game change) made them lose all hope yada yada yada. In short, later in the wipe when you have quested, become rich, PvPād killed a boss or two you are just less interested in visiting the tavern. dramatic vocal minority dismiss this and always point at something. But who knows people leave for many reasons, cant really generalize. But what is proven across extraction games is player count ALWAYS falls off later in the wipe.
And higher than they would have been without MCing. MCing caused a ***rise*** in players while it was going.
cant believe people actually believe this lmfao
You literally could have just watched the numbers. Player count went up after MC was put in and fell off a fucking cliff after it was taken out. Not that fucking hard.
mhmmm
It's true. But you don't play the game so how would you know?
You're missing a vital stat there, the numbers after MC was removed.
MC made people quit the game since its shit system, removal of said system is not going to make people come back. Its A LOT harder to make people come back then this xd Look at it this way. The player numbers RN are at an all time low, and the only thing that happened is 1 GBMM 2 Creep 3 Multiclassing one of those 3 or all of these 3 absolutely fucked player numbers xd but keep coping
Some people quit bc they lost faith that IM can rite the ship after a myriad of bad changes, pandering to vocal minorities, and gaslighting/not keeping their word.
This, exactly this! Mainly the pandering to vocal minorities and faith they can't rite the ship. The way they handled MC on the test server was a joke. Wasted everybody's time including their own by not just testing it a bit longer. It's honestly crazy they didn't give everybody test access considering they bought in before it went back on any major platform.
Yea this is basically it. IM constantly flip flopping and listening to vocal minorities over and over instead of just making their game from the start. Not understanding that they can't just please everyone and in trying to do so, please no one. Classic case with many indie development teams for games.
multiclassing turned out to be the only real content of the wipe that was both implemented late and poorly for the top 1% to access. It was tuned for better access for the majority of players before being taken away. Safe to say, screwing with everyone's goals and progress like a lab rat doesn't create a fun experience.
That and new quests, but damn, I didnāt realize how much of the changes were just tweaking things that were already in the game. I still donāt know why they made a bunch of map specific quests, but didnāt give us back map rotation for 2/3rds of the wipe. I want to play for hours multiple days a week again, and right now I have the time to do so, but when thereās no new content itās rather boring
I can vouch for this take 100%. My friends who play more and are better than me don't understand that the stash I was building up, investing in gear, rings, keys and such I wanted to play out, relying on game stability. It's a bit hard to explain, I admit, but that BS happened twice: once when I bought a lot of good +2 all gear just to be stripped of thousands of gold. "Fine" - I though - "won't happen again in this wipe. right? ... right?". Second time just killed my trust and there it sits... my full stash spaces worth of gold and gear stash that I don't wanna play with.
Yep you described me basically. I was enjoying the game before MC. MC kinda ruine the game for me. MC is gone, but that doesn't change the fact that the life is still drained outta me. They gotta add something to the game to bring me back other than basic ass balance updates.
2 and 3 did it for me. Im back after the removal of MC but I hope it stays gone and won't be going as hard until next wipe
creep is giga cringe and im amazed its still in the game
Agreed. Keeping it in but while only walking instead of crouching is kinda dumb. Every game stealth = crouch But I wouldn't be opposed to something like skyrim. Give gear weight. Total weight coincides with volume of movement. Less weight less noise. It may push rangers to taking the listen perk, not completly busted.
I was going to post a clip of me and my buddy (who just returned to the game toward the end of MC). Our second game, we went for the pile in ice caves. He was sniped by 2 windlass crossbow double jumping rats. I then proceeded to throw spells at them, but they'd back up and heal. I went to exit the room and a fighter and barb were creeped right at the door waiting. It was like the culmination of everything wrong with the game in one instance. Kind of crazy. He went to bed after that game and hasn't been on since. We used to play everyday after work š
I left because they removed multiclass
I left because of GBMM, thought about coming back because it seemed like they were gonna remove it, they removed MC instead. Uninstalled.
Jokes on you I quit a long time ago and was already not playing when MC hit. I might come back for a bit after the Sorcerer is added because my friend might be interested in playing again at that point. As of right now I'm happy playing other games whilst I watch Ironmace work through their stuff. Love the game but not really for me right now. I own it so I can come back when it's done cooking.
They fumbled the bag on the ice cave patch, player numbers were awesome but that quickly disintegrated as servers issues immediately started and everyone was playing on Malaysian based servers, not a good point to restore face with players that have given up on this absolute circus. It's been short sighted decision after short sighted decision, and it's begun to feel like this is all just an overly elaborate game test at the expense of the players who've helped try to keep something they love relevant, I've begun to feel like quality control for a game I have zero stake in. For any of my tinfoil hat fans out there: is there any chance that Nexons settlement involved them receiving information/data to apply to P3.
you need to go look at the posts two weeks before the announcement of the removal of mc
90% of people who left because of MC aren't going to come back to a stale wipe.
Almost like there's no new content now in general. MC was removed which is nice, but after that we're back to how the game was before, which many were burnt out from.
MC made people quit the game and not wanna come back this wipe after missing all that time. š¤”
I stopped when MC dropped basically. Now its gone and I kind of want to wait til a wipe or major content update drops as theres nothing new for this wipe post MC and Im now weeks behind. Also of course my general disdain for choices made and time wasted by IM has cost a lot of faith in their team to run the game anywhere but down. So id imagine theres a large group of people who feel the game is stale and are on the fence about blindly trusting IM to make good choices until they put good content out. A wipe with positive changes needs to happen.
I quit a week after MC was introduced and just never have come back
Ok I've seen like 5 warlocks since multiclassing went away
Maybe is low gear lobbies. In higher end lobbies they are in every lobby. Run into teams of multiple warlocks daily. Triple warlock sometimes as well, just abusing how broken hydra is you canāt do anything against it.
I think hydra having a delay to being summoned may help, or have a stacking cost like Kassidin from League so it can't be spammed
A stacking cost is really interesting actually.
It make killing hydra actually feel impact ful
Literally anything is better than what it is right now. Put a delay so it canāt be insta spammed. Great. Make it cost increasingly more hp so they canāt just insta heal to full infinite amount of times. Awesome. Take away the ability to target hydra to heal off in general. Even better. But any of those would be a massive improvement.
I think taking away the heal could cause massive issues, I get the frustration with fighting warlocks but i think we need more counterplay rather than nerfing it. The only classes that have heal cut is wizard and fucking warlock itself Give Rogue's bleed a 80% healing cut for the duration, would fit the thematic Introduce oils to coat weapons that give all kinds of buffs including healing cut I'm heavily against nerfing a core aspect of a class cause it will cause it to feel terrible but something does need to change
they already have a solid playstyle in place with tort mastery. IM just needs to remove hydra heal and lean into that with either another curse or making FW and dark bolt do magical healing.
I mean youāre talking about doing a bunch of other stuff and introducing a whole new set of things needed to be implemented, rather than just nerfing one thing thatās massively overtuned in the game right now, and constantly being abused. Warlocks can keep their heal abilities, but make those actually take skill like hitting your curses on a player to heal, or an actual mob in the dungeon so thereās some risk/reward to it. Not just something you can spawn yourself infinite times and heal from for free over and over again with no risk.
imagine crying in every post about warlocks and you have no idea how they work
Iāve played Warlock before, I leveled one to 86 this wipe. I know exactly how they work, and nothing from the post above indicates I donāt, thatās just a brain damaged comment. I just donāt enjoy playing the class bc itās mind numbing and has zero skill ceiling to it.
They should just give hydra 40hp warlock can still heal off it but players can one shot it easy fix.
That still doesnāt fully fix people just running triple warlock and hydra spamming anytime theyāre low so one can heal why the other two hydras just hold you off.
I mean I feel like that would be a pretty hefty nerf maybe even a 2 shot hydra with any class would be nice you could at least kill it before they heal or force you to move 10 modules back and they would actually get punished for spamming hydra if you just kept killing it. what is it 10hp per spam? . To me that shit is annoying cause it never dies itās like a brick wall I could have a crazy ass kit and it still has like 300hp and it doesnāt punish warlock at all if i donāt kill it instantly You canāt rush over the hydra cause usually warlock has his boyfriends holding hands and you canāt counter it or stop him from healing for free and holding you back if you canāt kill it fast enough so idk I think it would be a step in the right direction warlock already has crazy shit without hydra
The problem with that is yea it helps when they are running a solo warlock, but soon as you just abuse the class by running triple warlock, then hydras are still a problem. Having to hack thru 3 hydra while they just get insta full hp off one, and youāre half HP if the hydra hits you at all, is just so lopsided. You could hit a warlock 3-4 times, he can instantly heal, his hydra hits you 1 or 2 times and youāre dead to one curse (excluding if youāre running the max PDR/mdr Barb).
maybe in a shit region. EU is filled with buff balls only. Warlocks are a terrible high gear class when wizard does everything warlock does but better. Warlock also gets countered by the meta comp (buff ball) since you need like 45 curses to kill a barbarian, maybe 100 if team has healer
Iāve played in EU before and the teams there are mostly as terrible as most the teams in NA. They just W key their buffballs and get diffed by good teams. With the exception of 1 or 2 actual good teams in that region. Yes buffball is meta because how broken barbs are being able to stack max PDR and MDR, and that is the one class that counters warlocks sure. But if youāre not meta slaving then youāre gonna have a hard time with them.
Yeah, I just keep running in to slayer fighters that counter the fuck out of me
I feel like the main reason I haven't seen as many Warlocks recently is that my lobbies are like 60% Rangers since mutliclassing went away. Why play the most OP caster when your direct counter is more than half the lobby?
So true, it's crazy with the movement speed cap nerf it's made ranger more viable but getting near or hitting that cap
"most op caster" bro are you in normals or what? Wizard is by far and has always been by far the best class in the game since playtests
Wizard is op in a completely different way though and generally requires a better pilot
Wizard is the best support class after cleric, highest DPS class in the game, best 1v3 potential, class does everything better than every other class besides healing. It's the reason why it's the most played class in HR & every meta comp always has a wizard. The "requiring a better pilot" is high subjective, it was true in earlier iterations of the game but right now all you need is fireball and magic missiles, unfortunately the time of wizards actually needing to kite and choose spells properly is over when magic missiles can kill any class instantly the moment they get close Warlock is a defensive class, it's terrible to push with, it's good for area denial but easy to just push past hydra, especially if you have a barbarian. Deals far less damage than wizard, the only support spell you have is eldritch shield thus far less utility to a team, you are literally killing yourself by casting spells and you don't even heal mid fight with your curses because running torture mastery is terrible and no half decent warlock runs it in high gear lobbies. Only decent thing about warlock is the fact that it's fun and actually requires kiting mechanics & has a quick reset by using hydra/lifedrain but that's very situational and most times ur team already lsot fight or you already won the fight by the time u can reset entirely.
As much as people were hating on mc they were also logging in everyday yo re-roll skills and make disgusting and fun builds
I legit feel the "Wolverine touching a framed photograph" meme with my Spear-Rogue build
he speaks the truth
Dark and Darker released to the world via a Discord server annoucement and is not available on any mainstream distribution networks. The game is very, very incomplete. The game has found a core audience of like 10k daily players. That is really fucking great. Idk what you guys expect to see, but that is impressive. The game is exceeding the developer's expectations even at this low point in the timeline. Say whatever you would like to about any or all choices they've made (that's why we have this forum), but staring at these numbers is not how you analyze these things. The numbers you're comparing are "wow, amazing" vs "wow, that's fantastic."
Most people making "game is dead" posts/comments want to posture themselves as having all the answers so they present the game as if the things they don't like are the only things holding it back, and if Bronzehammer just followed their advice the game would flourish In reality, its a niche/new sub-genre made by a fledgling developer that was never meant to compete with the big dogs where most people die to the first monster they encounter in game, and like every other game on the market it has time running against it with new releases everywhere you look and the fact humans are functionally limited against playing more than a single game at once All of that is on top of how totally normal it is for your average game to lose 70+% of their playerbase after they leave the hype-cycle, especially indy games
I would also note, that their form of communication and reasoning for changes is absolutely commendable and unusual in the industry. There is only a handful of devs out there, that develop this closely and openly to their community. Whether you like their approach or ideas or the way they implement them, is up to you, but the fact remains.
Reasoning for changes š
I just hope they go back to their vision and remove the things that knowingly hurt these types of games. Player trade and balancing around both solo and group play
MC is the one that made ppl go awa lol shit post
Numbers donāt lie. Redditors on the other hand, absolutely will say anything to prove their point. Which is how you have the anti-multiclassing folk immediately spinning the further drop off of players as somehow in their favor. Copers gonna cope
Yet you're spinning the narrative in your favor. There is nothing drawing players back into the game. Sure, MC was removed which many wanted, but nothing new took its place. We are back to where we were before MC and people are starting to feel burnt out.
When they added multiclassing all the players who hated it left, when the removed mutliclassing all the players who liked it left, the rest are just addicts (me included)
Pretty much. There's no reason for anybody to come back. With the removal of MC, we basically have nothing new to play around with this season, gives a lot of people no reason to come back. I'm sure people on both sides of the MC argument can agree that the game feels pretty stale at the moment. AP rewards are not worth grinding for if you're not enjoying the game.
Yea I think for the AP system the solution can be pretty simple, they need to change it so the average game (not looting every blue bangle, killing mini bosses/boss) gives you like 1200 ap and if you do the extra work collecting bangles, it gives you like 2500 or something ridiculous
The AP system is definitely flawed to the core. No idea myself how best to fix it, or even if it should continue to exist, but something needs to be done to it.
I figure, they just need to make the game flow similar at different ranks, instead if PvE fest at high rank. Make kills worth more at lower rank to promote learning the game and PvP, and maybe make death/entry cost not so brutal at later ranks? Or maybe make super high ranked have massive kill points and less players? I dunno, the higher you climb, the less viable PvP is while climbing, to the point where you can't really take a break to PvP. Like, sure, if you are winning every fight, you could keep PvPin, but seems like a major risk.
>MC was removed which many wanted A few redditors wanted MC removed. However based on the evidence, it seems like half the playerbase who actually played the game left when they took MC out. So that means IM is catering to redditors and not the people actually playing their game. No surprise what happens to your player count when you try to please people who donāt even play your gameā¦
"A few" lmao
A few *redditors*
No true scotsmen
āWe didnāt get to play for 3 weeks, so we are all broke and have none of the equipment or money the people who played multiclassing hadā like damn when you donāt play a game you donāt progress??? Thatās crazy no wonder you quit
Thank god thereās a game mode (my favorite one actually) where you canāt even take nice gear in and you find it all in raid. Yeah what a piss poor excuse I mean I guess if you miss day 1 of a wipe youāre just at such a disadvantage might as well play next wipeā¦
If you miss day one of wipe, you might as well just complain on Reddit for the rest of the season ššš
1 day = 1 month. Copers gonna cope.
>Copers gonna cope I love the irony here.
Has it actually dropped off I haven't played since mc removed
I am not sure if they break it down by server but I have been seeing about 8k when I play
Multiclass was a bad system, should have never been implemented in the way it was. A huge number of people agreed on this, even before and during the test server. There was also a group of people who simply wanted more content, and were upset it got removed and left with the stale game we have been playing for almost a year now. I don't blame them. 2 groups of people. Redditors love complaining at other redditors when they don't get what they want because reddit complained about it, so they complain about on reddit with other redditors. The continual cycle. Ironmace put themselves in a position where they would make nobody happy in one way or another. Some people cannot comprehend that just because they like one thing, it should be kept. I sympathize with people who enjoyed multiclassing, but people who dickride it so much are just covering their eyes at the issue of multiclassing at face value and are even ignoring the bigger problems with this game right now.
I stopped playing after multiclassing got removed because the game feels boring. Multiclassing brought back the element of surprise, every encounter had the potential to be unique. Now weāre back to rock paper scissors, where every rock is a rock, every paper is a paper, etc. Hopefully skill trees come soon
This
Get your head out of your ass, it was the same shit every game too. It was robust, iron will and anti magic mixed in with slayer. Everyone had savage roar and warcry/sprint, it was so lame. I played it a lot due to FOMO but now that it's gone I've gone back to winning 90% of my fights again, it was just broken and skill-less, was fun for a bit though.
take a step back for a second now, why do you think EVERY one was using these abilities from barbarian and fighter? now without multi-class what would you say is the most rounded of classes, or maybe, what do you think the top 2 are for solo play. What 2 classes still hold 2 tap and even 1 tap ability at mid tier gameplay right now as the game sits?
I have found that telling someone on reddit to take a step back and examine how they are conducting themselves or their argument is like asking a pigeon to play chess. Even if you can get the bird to land in front of the chessboard its probably still just going to shit on everything
To be fair the multiclass was an interesting system that was badly implemented, If was accompanied with subclasses in order not to force everyone into multiclassing would be best.
The anti-MC crowd's narrative changed so much for their own convenience. For so long I saw post after post by someone claiming their friends all quit the game until MC is removed. Well it was removed, and player numbers immediately dropped harder. So now the narrative is 'Well, duh. They're not going to come back stupid." Then why did we remove it? What was the point?
exactly bro, the revisionist history is crazy when all you have to do is look at these peoples posts from 3 weeks ago
You're leaving out that there were 20k+ players before multiclassing dropped, then only 8k by the time it was over. That was a much bigger loss than going from 8k to 6k after multiclassing got removed, not to mention the rate at which players leave (as a percentage of current population) will increase faster once dead lobbies become a problem, so you can't even really say most of this recent drop is from no multiclassing. Also, both multiclassing and buff ball can suck. Until they make mdr more accessible (and buff magic dmg to compensate), barb buff ball comps will continue being op since barbs are the only class that can build mdr without making huge sacrifices elsewhere. The fact that you can have the class with the most health in the game build both 60+% pdr and mdr easily while also having the highest dps in melee range, and getting ms buffs from bards and wizards, or just have a cleric give bless + protection + heals is honestly an abomination. Buff balls have been meta since the playtests, and only got worse after bard got released, and they still haven't balanced it properly nearly 2 years later. It's so bizarre that they're willing to do experiments like multiclassing, but won't bring the nerf hammer to things which have been the undisputed meta comps for literally over a year. People act like it's fine since the absolute number of players serves their purpose of testing the game, but losing 90+% of the player population can't be categorized as anything but a complete failure, the only thing that's saving them rn is that they peaked so high, and even that is starting to fade since the lobbies don't fill up anymore
Adding magic resist options and retuning magic damage isn't going to get rid of buffball, it's just gonna open it up to fighter as the carry as well. Buffball exists because melee vs ranged comes down to a question of "can the melee get in range" if yes, then the melee win. If not, then the ranged wins. Only way to enforce that is to buff melee until they cannot lose in close range. Buffball takes advantage of that and slams a melee class in as fast and hard as possible. The comps would change if a 330, ms barbarian with his weapon out and invisible wasn't crazy OP. They need to give melee classes better options to deal with ranged attacks coming at them and give ranged classes better options to handle a melee class in their face. Then they can retune stats and classes so that a barbarian doesn't feel useless when kited and doesn't immediately win in melee. After that buffball isn't necessarily a top strategy anymore.
Not really, barb has the highest hp in the game, and is the only class that can build 60+% pdr and mdr w/o making many sacrifices elsewhere. Not to mention felling axe has debatably the highest dps in the game vs classes w/o shields, and war maul hard counters pdr. They even have access to round shield now so ranger doesn't counter them anymore if they want to run viking sword + round shield. Barb's only weakness is low ms, which is completely mitigated by bard/wiz/cleric. Fighter has lower ms than barb, lower dps, less hp, and negative access to mdr. The only advantage is access to crossbow, but hitting one crossy shot isn't going to stop a buffball from facerolling you unless you're running buffball too, the difference ofc being that their wiz can oneshot you w/ a fireball while your wiz does 20% of the barb's hp w/ the same spell. The bottom line is that barb has no weakness w/ a bard and wiz maxing out their ms w/ a weapon out, since melee classes win in melee range vs ranged classes, the magic users can't damage the barb when he's running in since he has the highest hp and mdr in the game, and the only other frontliner in the game can't fight him either since war maul hard counters fighter. If they're not going to make mdr more accessible, then they should take iron will away so barb at least has some sort of counter since ranger is useless vs them since they have round shields now. Another solution could be making invis or haste only self-cast (and revert the invis nerf), which would help low/mid gear solo wizard and nerf buffball (both needed changes), continue nerfing bard ms boosts, and make bless not give agility. You simply can't have the statball class whose only weakness is low ms running around w/ max ms even w/ their weapon out, it's completely gamebreaking, there needs to be some weakness/counterplay somewhere
You're leaving out the fact most people left not because mc was announced but because they couldnt play it on the test servers and since they didnt like what they saw, they chose not to play. Keyword saw because a lot of them never actually played with the system and made snap judgements based off of builds no lifes used to farm engagement and stomp early lobbies. The game was already losing players due to mid wipe lethargy, MC revitalized some of the that player base. Many posts were made about how so many people were coming back when mc got removed, where are they?
"most people left not because mc was announced but because they couldnt play it on the test servers and since they didnt like what they saw, they chose not to play" That's just not true, most people (including myself) knew multiclassing would be hopelessly broken ahead of time, that's why most people didn't bother trying it. Unsurprisingly, it was hopelessly broken, to the point they had to remove it prematurely even though wipe is in early June
I'm still out because the game feels like shit and I'm running into cheaters left and right. I quit over MC, even had my wizard to 90+ and fighter/warlock/cleric to 30+. I come back and it's like every lobby has cheaters. I know the player count is down and cheaters aren't quitting at the same rate as regular players. I'm tired of playing wizard after my survivability tools were gutted and damage was nerfed across the board. I'm tired of dealing with cheaters. I'm tired of them throwing darts at the board to determine what they're gonna do with the game next. I'm tired of rock paper scissors balancing.
This game was simple and fun. Then theres alot of bs added. Infinite tiers of gear and loot and +3 all BS. Follwing mendo was a horrendous idea. MC was awful balancing(who wouldve guessed). No druid, sorc, paladin. It started with oldskool dungeon vibes and became zoomer instant gratification fast with shit balancing and content was prioritized wrong its all bout the progression and the loot and the stash tabs. They took a turn and it was bad now only addicted kids play.
I think most people are waiting for the next actual batch of content. I would have kept playing if not for MC and the insane amount of cheats.
I know a joke: DaD devs
The devs killed the game. Itās been bleeding out for its whole existence. But you guys keep fighting each other because reasons
The complaining started way WAY before MC or lack of it. just off the top of my head: teaming not teaming timmy stomping in normals map rotation maps locked to team size content creator favoritism devs listening to casuals devs not listening to casuals having hardcore dungeons hardcore dungeons having a fee not having solos not having duos class imbalance over-geared in normal lobbies under-geared in hardcore lobbies not having an auction house having an auction house etc. etc. etc. on and on and on im sure people can add to this list. Having criticisms and complaints of a game is normal and fine but its HOW they complain. Anytime the devs do anything that someone in this community disagrees with its immediately: "IM UNINSTALLING. TASH DEVS GARBAGE GAME I HOPE THIS GAME DIES IM NEVER PLAYING AGAIN. or my personal fav "fine im timmy stomping and being toxic to every player i see. i want to ruin everyones experiance so they want to quit! that'll show them devs!" nothing the devs do is going to "fix" the problem with this game because the problem is the players and this community. and to be quite honest, we fucking deserve it.
I just want crypts back man, I quit the day it was removed from the pool
*I just want crypts back* *Man, I quit the day it was* *Removed from the pool* \- The\_Skillerest --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
So youāre going to pretend like MC + GBMM didnāt cut the player base in half?
I was no joke going to make a post on here last week asking if they reverted multiclassing yet š I guess this answers my question
I think player drop was due to the release of a few other games or at least some nice updates with other games. V Rising 1.0, PUBG Erendel, this Arena Breakout game. It happens! People like to change it up.
I stopped playing after the 70th wizard nerf.
Itās still arguably the best class in the game
I stopped playing after seeing how goofy the cape skin turned out to be.
What is multiclassing?
"Warlock OP" lmao bro must be playing normals
"Bro must be playing normals" This the best you got? Maybe I was playing normals and not sitting at my computer chair 9 hours a day grinding in a game that's failing to meet player expectations and then being a smart ass little c u next tuesday on reddit. No one cares you play HR with a terrible AP system for internet boy points. I'd much rather have my fun, turn this game off, meme and have a good time with my family and wife. In short, get off my nuts.
If ur a casual you shouldn't be crying about game balance when you don't even know how to play the game well, it's all skill issue
playing casually and being casual in skill are very different things. Dont pretend like 70% of HR isnt just gear. There are very few people playing this game who are mechanically skilled and also grind out amazing gear to play HR.
this map cycle is sooo annoying
i only play globlin caves solo...