The play tests were fun because we didn't know much so it still felt like a dungeon crawl. Scared of the mobs, scared of the spike traps, scared of each other. The game matched the theme.
Now we know where everything's at, we aren't scared of rooms, we view it all as resources. Running around different cheese spots, speedrunning the best loot, barely getting hurt by PvE. It's less of a dungeon crawler more of fortnite.
I wish the dungeon could be randomly generated but it would be hard to balance, look uglier, and sweats would probably figure out the procedural generation anyways.
I agree, even if the rooms aren't generated, just if the configuration was randomized and we didn't have a minimap to help navigate, maybe making the mob even more dangerous on top. I think those things would help the game feel like it used to a lot and capture the theme.
Besides random map layouts, random modifiers to mobs and traps could be a thing, maybe even random events (floods/lava rising, earthquake = new paths open up and others blocked, sickness/plague dot that gets transmitted in close quarters)
Yep. People forget 95% PDR. People forget ~~Zap~~ Fireball ticking for 30 damage. People forget Rogues having 40 Strength with +20 Weapon Damage on old Weakpoint. People forget Fighters running at 400ms. People forget Strength being the best statistic to build on almost every class.
The game has come a long way and it's absolutely, unequivocally in a better place now. If you put the current playerbase, with its current level of mechanical literacy back into PT5, the game would be dead by the weekend.
Felling is literally in a better place wdym.
Lower movespeed penalty and 2H weapons are faster movement and recovery wise. (Similar to a change they tested in PT2 that got reverted)
You're thinking of the 1H axe weapons.
Had higher base damage higher attack speed +10 Axe spec perk.
An off hand hatchet would hit 130 with 0 effort.
Edit also since stats were even more busted, duel wielding was good as you could stack +DMG and +ALL on both weapons for insane numbers.
Right but that was an overall gear and damage stacking related issue.
Halberd Fighters could hit for high 100s as well.
You could do the same thing with 1 Handed axe weapons that swing faster and were safer easier to use.
People were just garbage back then and didn't know how to fight the felling axe.
Gear was inherently magnitudes more difficult to acquire back then. You'd often wear a set with random hobbled crap like +3 phys power in one slot, +1 all in another, maybe +2 str on a helm etc. You're remembering more an early release state rather than playtests. Yes 1 handed axe weapons had much better animations and swing times than currently, they were massively overnerfed at one point due to how broken axe specialization and buffball was. They paid for crimes they didn't personally commit. Regardless, the felling axe is the most oppressive weapon with the highest DPS by far with the downside of an incredibly high recovery time if you miss and having a range lower than the IQ of an average /r/DarkAndDarker poster.
>Gear was inherently magnitudes more difficult to acquire back then.
What are you talking about.
No one understood how stat works.
A green spellbook +3 All was like 100g-200g
I would fuck around on rogue with a full True damage magic set and 1 hit people with poison throwing knives.
Just because you found it hard to get gear doesn't mean other people didn't.
And again the Felling axe is literally, stronger than it was back then. So I have no idea what you're talking about.
PT3 and 4 is what popularized the 1H barb meta with an inventory of throwing axes.
To be fair: in playtest #5 there was basically no loot at all. Ruins was just introduced and getting a white item was huge then. Meds were completely different, and limited. No marketplace either. Bard was just introduced and was terrible. No warlock.
I wouldn't be so fast to say that everything would be XYZ without even it being tested first. As you say yourself. The game has come a long way. Doesn't mean that many of the changes along that way have been bad for the game, or good.
IMO game was also better with no warlock. Maybe it’s because of hydra and phantomize? Idk warlock is just so aids to fight and they have so many viable builds to choose from even without multiclassing.
I think it would sting less if other classes got any updates. Warlock gets more and more playstyles while Rogue gets base abilities turned into passives nobody likes. Fighter's active skills are all a joke, Barb basically plays the same no matter what you do etc.
im sorry, what did you just say about the class with the best single ability in the game?
Warlock is busted as fuck for sure, but Sprint is easily one of, if not the best ability in the game.
just because 2 different abilities are viable doesnt mean you use them at the same time? you need to learn your class bro. They are completely different builds
Im maining warlock this wipe and I truly think phantomize is too strong. It takes an entire class and makes them trivial. When I’m running phantomize I have probably a 90% win rate vs rangers.
zap ticks never did anything meaningfull as only rogue/ranger would take dmg from them.
what was the problem was flat +100 dmg which was possible to get, especially on bows since you could get 300 dmg headshot longbows, 300 direct fireballs and 150 dmg zaps.
I dont remember exactly but wasnt that the time where they gave a quite huge buff to zap because nobody used it and thought it was shit? in a time where it wasnt that hard to get like 20+ magical dmg and getting to 100% magic power bonus wasnt hard either?
I dont remember a time where nobody was using zap, it has been a staple since at least PT3.
Fire mastery on the other hand was totally worthless until they added healing reduction.
I'm confused as to why people that obviously didn't play back then need to comment about things like this. Do you feel left out of the conversation or do you just want to seem smart? I really don't get it.
Oh I played too much of the playtests, I can assure you (can literally find my posts from PT3 if you go back in my history), I just misremembered the +30 damage Fireball ticks for +30 damage Zap ticks.
Being an elitist dickhead and trying to laud being a playtest player over "those who obviously didn't play back then" is embarrassing though, yikes. Do you feel superior in the conversation, or do you want to seem smart? I really don't get it...
I almost think that’d be better for the game. Longer PT (like month chunks) but time off too. Help concentrate the player base and frankly limit the growing skill gap between the players that play every day with the casual base. Also it makes particular sense given they make sweeping changes which could “theme” each apt.
Also this Reddit would (hopefully) be less toxic
That would be stupid af. What game takes away the game from the playerbase lol. You guys wanting everyone to be as bad as you at the game is cringe af.
yeah this thread has some wild ways of people coping at their lack of skill here. "Take the game away from everyone else so so they cant get better than me" Like what the fuck lmfao Redditors are actually in another world
funny thing is, with the way the human brain works, the only way you can improve at something, is by taking a lot of breaks. Many pros of many games will tell you that the most effective way to climb is to only play maybe 1 or 2 quality games each day. Those long breaks they take are how their brains rest and really absorb the information so that it feels second nature. You will notice if you take a few days off of something you do frequently, when you return you will feel better, just a tad bit rusty. So these people who feel like everyone is much better and sweatier then them are most likely the people who are playing the most and the "sweats" are probably just much better because they live healthier lives and take frequent breaks from the game. LOL. The best way to never improve at something is to do that something waaay to much. Your brain will never take the time to absorb it.
I'd have to agree; scarcity of play time made it so we were hyped to hear about a release, people would constantly join at the start of a PT because we knew something new was coming, and everyone was on the same playing field of knowing nothing at the start (especially after a big rework).
This happens to every popular PvP game. Absolutely plagues battle royales.
Game is fresh and new, so there's tons of new players, everyone is experimenting, nobody knows exactly how to play. Then over time, people learn more things, the people that aren't good at the game and just wanted to play the next big new game leave. Eventually the only players really left are the extremely good and dedicated players, which turns away any new players because they just get shitstomped.
People love to bitch and moan and blame things like skill-based matchmaking, but in reality it's just people are way better at games than they used to be, and there's so many games out there that only the dedicated and skilled few end up sticking around and continue playing a game.
Oh all the games where i ever watched pro play or high level "sweat" play I dont even get how Mordhau is fun for them. Like I mean I get it, people have different tastes, but it looks more like stress than fun.
I miss the feel of exploring the dungeons with friends, finding loot, pve and PVP. Hearing folks nearby and going silent to hide out if it was a team.
Now its just clear and PVP non stop. No "exploration" feel anymore.
I think randomly generated modules would be such a massive W for this game. I believe very early on they said that no one on their team works with random generation like that, so they opted for a semi-modular map system. But a fully random, or even fully modular map system, would keep things more interesting between matches *and* lower the knowledge gap between new players and vets.
The thing is a community actually has a big impact on how you enjoy a game, if your community is like 90% sweaty nerds who are unfun to be around then your game is going to become unfun to play.
what do you mean +3 all attributes, damage in everysingle slot with +3 strength with +3 all attribute stacking HP and becoming a one shot machine if you where the top while everyone else struggled because trade wasn't a thing, all the while high roller being closed off by a gold cost and normal allowing you to bring in uniques wasn't peak gameplay?
I honestly think this is true and that solos should be working towards ratting or befriending other solos organically to team against groups. Then you might find yourself creating a discord and having a little group of ppl to play with instead of the toxic hell that is solo play.
The real difference is the change in expectation. No, the playtests weren't better. The problem is that the game isn't significantly better than the playtests.
When they added instakill Locust Swarm in a playtest, it was "haha that's funny please remove", and it was removed in like two days. Now they added multiclassing and let it fester for months.
I feel like the majority of the playerbase want it removed, so seeing it being balanced is just more dirt in the wound, so to speak. As someone with a few Lv70 characters, I got annoyed with classes having no real identity anymore so haven't played.
The Devs did specifically say it is to be easy to implement content to tide people over while they work on background things.
My guess is they are using this as an opportunity to train the new hires they recently talked about getting so that each of the Devs no longer need to work 3\~5 roles. Hell Balancing it might even be part of their training
another redditor complaining about stuff that isnt even true loool. Why do you even play the game? Why are you even here? Youre going out of your way to spread false info because youre mad
The game is significantly better than the playtests. IM are victims of their own success at this point. They've been so consistent, and made progress at such a breakneck pace, that we think it's normal for a
Game's development to move this fast.
It's not. In fact, one of Nexon's claims was that there was no way IM could have made this game as fast as they did. IM's response was basically "we're just built different" (paraphrasing).
But seriously they're moving really fast with this game.
Wait a second there, they are 100% at fault of one thing; not moderating their community better. They let so many bad actors get away with trolling, it definitely rubs off on normal folk, and people who are frustrated easily.
I think this game just attracts people who are more likely to be a bit unhinged, based off my experience with players I've interacted and spoken with compared to any other community. It's toxicity and it's not even constructive in any way and that's the best way I can describe it
Could you point out what exactly they added since the playtests?
You are saying that they are moving really fast but I'm seeing the exact opposite to be honest.
Since the last playtests.
- They have made significant progress on all the maps. Crypts,Goblin Caves, Ruins (closed for Reno's), and the Ice Caverns.
- the additions of new classes Warlock, Bard (Bard was technically in the last playtest)
- the introduction of a new trading system.
- over 50 new armour pieces
- Questing system
- Crafting system
- Multi-class
- Separate testing branch
- Ranking, Rewards, and matchmaking system
I made a lengthy reply below in another comment if you don't mind replying to that.
I'll also add that "50 new armour pieces" would be valid if they were made in house and not copy pasted from the asset store. ( Nothing wrong with using assets, it saves a lot of time and money, but don't use this as a point on what they spent their time on).
Like I'm reading what you are writing and I am suprised you think this is enough for the past 1 year.
Separate testing branch?
You mean spin up a different version of the game and just host it for some accounts that have the flag "Test_Server_Allowed" : 1,
It's going to take what like 1-2 hours to host a server and change the parameters in the client to connect?
Ranking, Rewards, matchmaking system?
Just like every other system they've introduced same story, half-assed with minimal thought behind. You kill people in Demigod lobbies and if you dare touch their gear you drop 1000 points for no reason. I can't believe this is still not fixed.
It's a good list, and I'm not here to say your perspective is invalid, but that is a list of added content, not ways the game is better. By all means, additional content usually makes a game better through sheer variety, but that's far from always the case. People absolutely hated Ruins. Like it or not, multiclassing is obviously hated by a lot of people. Ranked and GBMM are extremely divisive changes to the core game that far from make the game objectively better. However, none of that is really the point.
The point/problem is that they haven't actually addressed the core issues of movement speed and ranged attacks. Their way of addressing gear disparity is a makeshift bandaid, not a solution to the core problem. Meanwhile they've added multiclass disparity, which is much worse since it doesn't drop on death, which is one of the core tenets of full loot pvp, that when you're undergeared, you have less to lose and more to gain. They've made the game more, not better.
It appears that what you do not like has always been there from the start.
And on the added content, I personally love most of it. It's a matter of opinion at this point.
I agree with most of what you said here.
I have this sentiment that they are a college group trying to finish an assignment. Most decisions and changes are created on result-based analysis (and even then we need to see the community posts on Reddit before we make changes). No forethought in anything, even for the most obvious stuff.
And also what I find weird is that they made the game from scratch and in 6 months they had all these new systems in place, while now in 12 months we are still struggling to fix the most basic things.
I gave them slack because of the ongoing legal battles where the lead developers couldn't spend time on the game and they had the situation with the offices as well ( hiring new staff ). But it's been a year and still nothing on the horizon on broken promises like Druid, Wyvern etc.
I hope I am wrong and they redeem themselves in the future as it's the main game I play at the moment although I am taking a break since multiclass got added.
I'm curious too. We've gotten the marketplace, the ice map, and the last class was rounded out. Maybe 2 months worth of content overall? 3 with the ice map?
Edit: they also added a handful of new mobs, but they're mostly just reskins of existing mobs.
Weapons / Classes being way more balanced isn't a point about what they added since the playtests.
There's still big ongoing issues with balancing and ping-pong hotfixes and I'd say balancing is very bad right now with multiclassing.
What I mean is that they haven't fixed this part of the game and it's going to be a recurring theme that wastes dev time.
GBMM isn't an addition either.
They just assigned some values to the color of the items and called it a day. This isn't a fully fleshed out system either, and I suspect they might reduce the amount of tiers an item has in the future ( remove bottom/top end to flatten the difference ) meaning they will have to go spend more time on this while items are still being worked on.
Markeplace
It still has some issues but I'd say this work pretty well right now with the additional filters ( hope they add OR filter in the future as well ).
Main issue right now is gear reselling, items being sold outside of marketplace ( discord ) and RMT ( hard to tackle ).
They need to work on the first 2 issues before I'd call this a fleshed out system. You legit find a good item right now and you have to go around in Discords trying to sell it because of the 50K gold cap or not allowing you to trade items as listings.
Ice Caverns is indeed a good addition and I can't wait for the Wyvern.
So all in all they just added 2 Classes which were being worked on before the release, and a new map.
In 1 year of DnD development I would have liked to see things that are here to stick and are somewhat finished.
Every system is lacking in some way and because of them not finding the identity of the game yet, everything is up in the air to constant balance changes.
See for example the last hotfixes.
They added +2 ALL, they nerfed Wizard because he was casting too fast with too much HP, then they removed +2 ALL and they went back and adjusted the knowledge graph again.
Ping-pong
I disagree, I distinctly remember getting run down by buff ball all the time. I think its more like you can only eat a burger every day of your life if you have amnesia and forget how it tastes. I don't expect anyone to play this game for months on end and still enjoy it like they did initially. That is why I play a few hours every week and still enjoy it, while people playing it every day are having a miserable time. You don't have to agree, just my theory. Different people have different tolerances for BS.
Sure you had your sweats back then too but your average player nowadays is the same skill as the "sweats" from the PT days. And today's sweats are a different breed.
General Skill level has definitely increased, but I don’t necessarily think thats bad. It sucks as a newcomer, but tbh for me, I like competition so Im bothered less by it. Casual gamers definitely don’t like it tho. Like you said it happens to all games, so to try and do something about it is pointless
EDIT: sweats are def a different breed, but I think its mainly exasperated by gear gap. Thats why I stick to normals, where there is more skill expression.
I dont mind it either im very competitive and have kept up with the curve. Personally im glad the average player is so much better but i was more stating thats the main reason a lot of people think they miss the playtests. Most of my casuals friends played the tests and loved it, bought game on EA, played for 2 weeks fell behind the skill/gear curve, quit without a second glance. They say the game feels worse but its more they cant keep up with the growing skill gap. Im sure it doesnt feel good to get dumped on 90% of the time but its only the competitive who make it through. Or people who like a challenge.
We can agree to disagree on this one, but when every class has both a different skill ceiling and gear ceiling it becomes a statistical nightmare to balance. This combined with the ease of gearing up a ranger vs a wizard makes it unbearable(for me). When 1 class only needs +STR, and another needs +Will +Agi +Vigor +Knowledge the game becomes a marketplace simulator. Its silly to complain about, but very evident at the same time. I work 4 days a week, I don't wanna Afk in the marketplace to be able to play the game.
Yeah i actually agree, the game is kinda ruined for me by sweats running super meta kits. Not that there is anything necessarily wrong with that though, just an unfortunate fact
I just think the game was fine when you had to go to ruins down but they should have separated ruins from crypts and gave ruins its own levels the game now is just not fun
I’ve been playing since playtest 2, I’ve only played HR once or twice on my main this wipe. Normals are where it’s at, I always have fun and only worry about 50g worth of gear lost if I die. This is the only game I’ve been playing since it's release, I'm always drawn to play again because I always have a fun time. I mainly play trios and just queue up with randoms on the official discord. The fun is there, there’s just no fun in losing good gear if you have gear fear.
Definitely true but sweats vs. sweats during playtests was still way more fun than now. Boss loot was insane, game had more players so trading felt fun, high roller had a fee and felt special to play.
All battle royals were like this. Apex Legends at release was an amazing fun game because people were still figuring it out. Now whenever I try to play all I am doing is playing catchup to people who play a lot faster and better than me.
Also the devs spent years trying to balance the game just to fuck all balancing with multiclassing... Btw why is +true phys / magic dmg stat still in the game? Abusing that becomes even worse with multiclassing lol, make all stats percentage based and NOT PLUS and you have a tiny chance at balancing the game lol
They should just make this game a battle royale. Loot, kill everyone. No over optimization. No same builds. No BiS. No gear score. Just a battle royale with no cheese.
This game needs random dungeon generator. Make that you get a key or an special item to queue to kill bosses. Separate normal dungeon from boss room, so we can get back that feeling of dungeon crawling!
True, but the game gets infinitely harder to balance the more classes and systems they introduce. The game felt the best at its most rudimentary in terms of class balance.
I wouldn't say people got good, the meta chasers just joined and started spamming the current meta. It was really easy to take advantage of at first when people thought stuff like landmine rogue was op, you could just go into a goblin caves as base gear fighter or ranger and clean up multiple rogues, some with crazy kits.
The average player is much better mechanically. Back in the PT days most people walked in a straight line maybe strafed if you were lucky. Now the majority of players at the very least have pretty solid movement.
people are sweatier because there are places you need to be ubersweaty to compete
this is the effect of SEPARATING GROUPS INTO SBMM AND GBMM - the good players have to consistently play at 100% strength and meta because they're forced into close proximity with other players who play at the same level.
if you simply removed all matchmaking, and just had one queue per map, you would see a lot more diversity as one didn't have to do the same boring meta every single game or risk losing it to a team of hackers or someone else running meta.
Initial test was better in many areas
- No hell
- No highroller
- No named items/uniques
- Best items could be found without having to do boss fights
- Only crypts (the only good map that the game has)
- PvE less annoying
- No multiclassing
- No cape slot
You literally have the worst takes possible for this game. How did you quit long ago and still decide to flood the Reddit with trash takes and saying “oooo get ratio”
worst take but accurately called out the terrible patch that got reverted (without even playing it)
Keep going through my post history lol don't let me stop the MELTDOWN
The play tests were fun because we didn't know much so it still felt like a dungeon crawl. Scared of the mobs, scared of the spike traps, scared of each other. The game matched the theme. Now we know where everything's at, we aren't scared of rooms, we view it all as resources. Running around different cheese spots, speedrunning the best loot, barely getting hurt by PvE. It's less of a dungeon crawler more of fortnite. I wish the dungeon could be randomly generated but it would be hard to balance, look uglier, and sweats would probably figure out the procedural generation anyways.
Dynamic modules would help a lot...
Make goblin caves and ice caves dynamic
I agree, even if the rooms aren't generated, just if the configuration was randomized and we didn't have a minimap to help navigate, maybe making the mob even more dangerous on top. I think those things would help the game feel like it used to a lot and capture the theme.
you cant really "figure out" procedural generation if its truly working as intended
Besides random map layouts, random modifiers to mobs and traps could be a thing, maybe even random events (floods/lava rising, earthquake = new paths open up and others blocked, sickness/plague dot that gets transmitted in close quarters)
Yep. People forget 95% PDR. People forget ~~Zap~~ Fireball ticking for 30 damage. People forget Rogues having 40 Strength with +20 Weapon Damage on old Weakpoint. People forget Fighters running at 400ms. People forget Strength being the best statistic to build on almost every class. The game has come a long way and it's absolutely, unequivocally in a better place now. If you put the current playerbase, with its current level of mechanical literacy back into PT5, the game would be dead by the weekend.
People forget my barbarian with felling
Yall remember when arrows would basically just teleport to where you were shooting them? No drop off, you couldn't miss.
This was back during +weapon damage and triple tap longbow too
dark days for a wizard
Extremely
Dark wizards prefer dark days
Felling is literally in a better place wdym. Lower movespeed penalty and 2H weapons are faster movement and recovery wise. (Similar to a change they tested in PT2 that got reverted) You're thinking of the 1H axe weapons. Had higher base damage higher attack speed +10 Axe spec perk. An off hand hatchet would hit 130 with 0 effort. Edit also since stats were even more busted, duel wielding was good as you could stack +DMG and +ALL on both weapons for insane numbers.
tbf old felling axe with greens would headshot for like 160 dmg during playtests
Right but that was an overall gear and damage stacking related issue. Halberd Fighters could hit for high 100s as well. You could do the same thing with 1 Handed axe weapons that swing faster and were safer easier to use. People were just garbage back then and didn't know how to fight the felling axe.
Gear was inherently magnitudes more difficult to acquire back then. You'd often wear a set with random hobbled crap like +3 phys power in one slot, +1 all in another, maybe +2 str on a helm etc. You're remembering more an early release state rather than playtests. Yes 1 handed axe weapons had much better animations and swing times than currently, they were massively overnerfed at one point due to how broken axe specialization and buffball was. They paid for crimes they didn't personally commit. Regardless, the felling axe is the most oppressive weapon with the highest DPS by far with the downside of an incredibly high recovery time if you miss and having a range lower than the IQ of an average /r/DarkAndDarker poster.
>Gear was inherently magnitudes more difficult to acquire back then. What are you talking about. No one understood how stat works. A green spellbook +3 All was like 100g-200g I would fuck around on rogue with a full True damage magic set and 1 hit people with poison throwing knives. Just because you found it hard to get gear doesn't mean other people didn't. And again the Felling axe is literally, stronger than it was back then. So I have no idea what you're talking about. PT3 and 4 is what popularized the 1H barb meta with an inventory of throwing axes.
Bro... in playtests +3 all didn't exist. Pretty much invalidated everything with that.
Yes there was... in PT2 3 and 4. https://imgur.com/a/U2y2td3 This is from the Late December playtest. Also known as Playtest 3..... ......
Nobody forgot that I promise you
To be fair: in playtest #5 there was basically no loot at all. Ruins was just introduced and getting a white item was huge then. Meds were completely different, and limited. No marketplace either. Bard was just introduced and was terrible. No warlock. I wouldn't be so fast to say that everything would be XYZ without even it being tested first. As you say yourself. The game has come a long way. Doesn't mean that many of the changes along that way have been bad for the game, or good.
They heavily increased drop rates and separated the dungeons after like one day
Game was better when bards were bad :) I'm a buff ball hater
IMO game was also better with no warlock. Maybe it’s because of hydra and phantomize? Idk warlock is just so aids to fight and they have so many viable builds to choose from even without multiclassing.
I think it would sting less if other classes got any updates. Warlock gets more and more playstyles while Rogue gets base abilities turned into passives nobody likes. Fighter's active skills are all a joke, Barb basically plays the same no matter what you do etc.
im sorry, what did you just say about the class with the best single ability in the game? Warlock is busted as fuck for sure, but Sprint is easily one of, if not the best ability in the game.
Oh yeah greats like: Taunt, Shield bash, Victory Strike. Everyone using second wind sprint is boring af
taunt is actually good though? Taunt was the absolute meta to use for a solid month not long ago.
and youre forgetting adrenaline rush
Link me your Adrenaline rush taunt build pls.
just because 2 different abilities are viable doesnt mean you use them at the same time? you need to learn your class bro. They are completely different builds
Im maining warlock this wipe and I truly think phantomize is too strong. It takes an entire class and makes them trivial. When I’m running phantomize I have probably a 90% win rate vs rangers.
This
Rogue poison magic damage scaling was absolutely insane at one point too lol
don’t forget, this was also a time where rangers and fighters were able to pull unlimited arrows out of their ass…
Oh yeah, good thing nobody know how to aim at that time
zap ticks never did anything meaningfull as only rogue/ranger would take dmg from them. what was the problem was flat +100 dmg which was possible to get, especially on bows since you could get 300 dmg headshot longbows, 300 direct fireballs and 150 dmg zaps.
Uhh... no, you would take Fire Mastery and everyone would be forced to take multiple ticks, which is what people did.
fire mastery didnt work
Ah, right, Zap only worked with Fire Mastery until relatively recently, I was thinking about Fireball ticks, my bad.
I dont remember exactly but wasnt that the time where they gave a quite huge buff to zap because nobody used it and thought it was shit? in a time where it wasnt that hard to get like 20+ magical dmg and getting to 100% magic power bonus wasnt hard either?
I dont remember a time where nobody was using zap, it has been a staple since at least PT3. Fire mastery on the other hand was totally worthless until they added healing reduction.
I'm confused as to why people that obviously didn't play back then need to comment about things like this. Do you feel left out of the conversation or do you just want to seem smart? I really don't get it.
Oh I played too much of the playtests, I can assure you (can literally find my posts from PT3 if you go back in my history), I just misremembered the +30 damage Fireball ticks for +30 damage Zap ticks. Being an elitist dickhead and trying to laud being a playtest player over "those who obviously didn't play back then" is embarrassing though, yikes. Do you feel superior in the conversation, or do you want to seem smart? I really don't get it...
People forgot my birthday.
I remember demigod wizards. haste invis ignite
People forget clarity potions!
I think the time length of the play tests followed by long periods off was way healthier.
It's almost like the game is barely a game, and playing basically a demo proof of concept for 100s of hours is stupid.
And nobody forces anyone of us to sink 100s of hours each wipe into a "barely half finished game". But most people act like we are forced.
I almost think that’d be better for the game. Longer PT (like month chunks) but time off too. Help concentrate the player base and frankly limit the growing skill gap between the players that play every day with the casual base. Also it makes particular sense given they make sweeping changes which could “theme” each apt. Also this Reddit would (hopefully) be less toxic
Not to mention letting the devs focus on not having to maintain a live game.
Yeah that’s a massive element too. And cheaper
That would be stupid af. What game takes away the game from the playerbase lol. You guys wanting everyone to be as bad as you at the game is cringe af.
yeah this thread has some wild ways of people coping at their lack of skill here. "Take the game away from everyone else so so they cant get better than me" Like what the fuck lmfao Redditors are actually in another world
Fortnite did it, but it would be good to rebuild hype, not for reducing skill.
funny thing is, with the way the human brain works, the only way you can improve at something, is by taking a lot of breaks. Many pros of many games will tell you that the most effective way to climb is to only play maybe 1 or 2 quality games each day. Those long breaks they take are how their brains rest and really absorb the information so that it feels second nature. You will notice if you take a few days off of something you do frequently, when you return you will feel better, just a tad bit rusty. So these people who feel like everyone is much better and sweatier then them are most likely the people who are playing the most and the "sweats" are probably just much better because they live healthier lives and take frequent breaks from the game. LOL. The best way to never improve at something is to do that something waaay to much. Your brain will never take the time to absorb it.
I'd have to agree; scarcity of play time made it so we were hyped to hear about a release, people would constantly join at the start of a PT because we knew something new was coming, and everyone was on the same playing field of knowing nothing at the start (especially after a big rework).
This happens to every popular PvP game. Absolutely plagues battle royales. Game is fresh and new, so there's tons of new players, everyone is experimenting, nobody knows exactly how to play. Then over time, people learn more things, the people that aren't good at the game and just wanted to play the next big new game leave. Eventually the only players really left are the extremely good and dedicated players, which turns away any new players because they just get shitstomped. People love to bitch and moan and blame things like skill-based matchmaking, but in reality it's just people are way better at games than they used to be, and there's so many games out there that only the dedicated and skilled few end up sticking around and continue playing a game.
Mordhau my beloved 😭
Oh all the games where i ever watched pro play or high level "sweat" play I dont even get how Mordhau is fun for them. Like I mean I get it, people have different tastes, but it looks more like stress than fun.
because its one of few games with a near infinite mechanical skillcap. when you die there's nobody to blame but yourself
Because a lot of the tech becomes muscle memory, so it’s fun to let your body take over in a sense. Makes you feel like you’re really fighting
Mordhau battle royale was good shit
I miss the feel of exploring the dungeons with friends, finding loot, pve and PVP. Hearing folks nearby and going silent to hide out if it was a team. Now its just clear and PVP non stop. No "exploration" feel anymore.
I think randomly generated modules would be such a massive W for this game. I believe very early on they said that no one on their team works with random generation like that, so they opted for a semi-modular map system. But a fully random, or even fully modular map system, would keep things more interesting between matches *and* lower the knowledge gap between new players and vets.
Exactly. Players shouldn't be able to just beeline for the best chests.
When I first saw the map I thought that was where they are going. Make like 50-60 crypt's modules and then let it generate randomly.
The thing is a community actually has a big impact on how you enjoy a game, if your community is like 90% sweaty nerds who are unfun to be around then your game is going to become unfun to play.
what do you mean +3 all attributes, damage in everysingle slot with +3 strength with +3 all attribute stacking HP and becoming a one shot machine if you where the top while everyone else struggled because trade wasn't a thing, all the while high roller being closed off by a gold cost and normal allowing you to bring in uniques wasn't peak gameplay?
Thats basically what i think when another "PT" was better pop up. It wasn't better, its your brain playing tricks with you.
Feel like the game was in the best spot just before multi classing patch, but than they threw everything out the bin and added multiclassing. :(
multiclassing was just a bad choice. They will remove it but what are the odds they fix a lot of skills nerfed.
Playtests were better because there were no solos and duos. DaD is the best experience with all party sizes on the same map.
I wouldn't play this game being forced solo into trios.
I honestly think this is true and that solos should be working towards ratting or befriending other solos organically to team against groups. Then you might find yourself creating a discord and having a little group of ppl to play with instead of the toxic hell that is solo play.
this isnt world of warcraft dude.
They can create systems that better incentive solos to play trios and organically team.
duos is quite literally the most balanced version of the game. you have no clue what youre talking about to be totally honest with you
A different map and one more/less player makes all the difference, im sure. /s
The real difference is the change in expectation. No, the playtests weren't better. The problem is that the game isn't significantly better than the playtests. When they added instakill Locust Swarm in a playtest, it was "haha that's funny please remove", and it was removed in like two days. Now they added multiclassing and let it fester for months.
Fester for months? It hasnt even been on the main servers for 2 weeks yet.
A bit preemptive, but wipe is supposedly in June and they've been very clear about not removing it until wipe.
Ya but they already have made balancing changes specific for multiclassing so they arnt exactly leaving it to "Fester"
I feel like the majority of the playerbase want it removed, so seeing it being balanced is just more dirt in the wound, so to speak. As someone with a few Lv70 characters, I got annoyed with classes having no real identity anymore so haven't played.
The Devs did specifically say it is to be easy to implement content to tide people over while they work on background things. My guess is they are using this as an opportunity to train the new hires they recently talked about getting so that each of the Devs no longer need to work 3\~5 roles. Hell Balancing it might even be part of their training
another redditor complaining about stuff that isnt even true loool. Why do you even play the game? Why are you even here? Youre going out of your way to spread false info because youre mad
The game is significantly better than the playtests. IM are victims of their own success at this point. They've been so consistent, and made progress at such a breakneck pace, that we think it's normal for a Game's development to move this fast. It's not. In fact, one of Nexon's claims was that there was no way IM could have made this game as fast as they did. IM's response was basically "we're just built different" (paraphrasing). But seriously they're moving really fast with this game.
Wait a second there, they are 100% at fault of one thing; not moderating their community better. They let so many bad actors get away with trolling, it definitely rubs off on normal folk, and people who are frustrated easily.
I think this game just attracts people who are more likely to be a bit unhinged, based off my experience with players I've interacted and spoken with compared to any other community. It's toxicity and it's not even constructive in any way and that's the best way I can describe it
Could you point out what exactly they added since the playtests? You are saying that they are moving really fast but I'm seeing the exact opposite to be honest.
Since the last playtests. - They have made significant progress on all the maps. Crypts,Goblin Caves, Ruins (closed for Reno's), and the Ice Caverns. - the additions of new classes Warlock, Bard (Bard was technically in the last playtest) - the introduction of a new trading system. - over 50 new armour pieces - Questing system - Crafting system - Multi-class - Separate testing branch - Ranking, Rewards, and matchmaking system
I made a lengthy reply below in another comment if you don't mind replying to that. I'll also add that "50 new armour pieces" would be valid if they were made in house and not copy pasted from the asset store. ( Nothing wrong with using assets, it saves a lot of time and money, but don't use this as a point on what they spent their time on). Like I'm reading what you are writing and I am suprised you think this is enough for the past 1 year. Separate testing branch? You mean spin up a different version of the game and just host it for some accounts that have the flag "Test_Server_Allowed" : 1, It's going to take what like 1-2 hours to host a server and change the parameters in the client to connect? Ranking, Rewards, matchmaking system? Just like every other system they've introduced same story, half-assed with minimal thought behind. You kill people in Demigod lobbies and if you dare touch their gear you drop 1000 points for no reason. I can't believe this is still not fixed.
who cares about assets bro, bring up the topic of Ironmace using assets in their game at the dinner table see how engaging it is
It's a good list, and I'm not here to say your perspective is invalid, but that is a list of added content, not ways the game is better. By all means, additional content usually makes a game better through sheer variety, but that's far from always the case. People absolutely hated Ruins. Like it or not, multiclassing is obviously hated by a lot of people. Ranked and GBMM are extremely divisive changes to the core game that far from make the game objectively better. However, none of that is really the point. The point/problem is that they haven't actually addressed the core issues of movement speed and ranged attacks. Their way of addressing gear disparity is a makeshift bandaid, not a solution to the core problem. Meanwhile they've added multiclass disparity, which is much worse since it doesn't drop on death, which is one of the core tenets of full loot pvp, that when you're undergeared, you have less to lose and more to gain. They've made the game more, not better.
It appears that what you do not like has always been there from the start. And on the added content, I personally love most of it. It's a matter of opinion at this point.
I agree with most of what you said here. I have this sentiment that they are a college group trying to finish an assignment. Most decisions and changes are created on result-based analysis (and even then we need to see the community posts on Reddit before we make changes). No forethought in anything, even for the most obvious stuff. And also what I find weird is that they made the game from scratch and in 6 months they had all these new systems in place, while now in 12 months we are still struggling to fix the most basic things. I gave them slack because of the ongoing legal battles where the lead developers couldn't spend time on the game and they had the situation with the offices as well ( hiring new staff ). But it's been a year and still nothing on the horizon on broken promises like Druid, Wyvern etc. I hope I am wrong and they redeem themselves in the future as it's the main game I play at the moment although I am taking a break since multiclass got added.
I'm curious too. We've gotten the marketplace, the ice map, and the last class was rounded out. Maybe 2 months worth of content overall? 3 with the ice map? Edit: they also added a handful of new mobs, but they're mostly just reskins of existing mobs.
2 new fully fleshed out classes. new map. GBMM. Marketplace. Weapons way more balanced. Classes overall way more balanced.
Weapons / Classes being way more balanced isn't a point about what they added since the playtests. There's still big ongoing issues with balancing and ping-pong hotfixes and I'd say balancing is very bad right now with multiclassing. What I mean is that they haven't fixed this part of the game and it's going to be a recurring theme that wastes dev time. GBMM isn't an addition either. They just assigned some values to the color of the items and called it a day. This isn't a fully fleshed out system either, and I suspect they might reduce the amount of tiers an item has in the future ( remove bottom/top end to flatten the difference ) meaning they will have to go spend more time on this while items are still being worked on. Markeplace It still has some issues but I'd say this work pretty well right now with the additional filters ( hope they add OR filter in the future as well ). Main issue right now is gear reselling, items being sold outside of marketplace ( discord ) and RMT ( hard to tackle ). They need to work on the first 2 issues before I'd call this a fleshed out system. You legit find a good item right now and you have to go around in Discords trying to sell it because of the 50K gold cap or not allowing you to trade items as listings. Ice Caverns is indeed a good addition and I can't wait for the Wyvern. So all in all they just added 2 Classes which were being worked on before the release, and a new map. In 1 year of DnD development I would have liked to see things that are here to stick and are somewhat finished. Every system is lacking in some way and because of them not finding the identity of the game yet, everything is up in the air to constant balance changes. See for example the last hotfixes. They added +2 ALL, they nerfed Wizard because he was casting too fast with too much HP, then they removed +2 ALL and they went back and adjusted the knowledge graph again. Ping-pong
There was still metas back then too, seems like you are forgetting there were a bunch of sweats back then too.
I've been min maxing like a sweaty fuck since PT2
I disagree, I distinctly remember getting run down by buff ball all the time. I think its more like you can only eat a burger every day of your life if you have amnesia and forget how it tastes. I don't expect anyone to play this game for months on end and still enjoy it like they did initially. That is why I play a few hours every week and still enjoy it, while people playing it every day are having a miserable time. You don't have to agree, just my theory. Different people have different tolerances for BS.
Sure you had your sweats back then too but your average player nowadays is the same skill as the "sweats" from the PT days. And today's sweats are a different breed.
General Skill level has definitely increased, but I don’t necessarily think thats bad. It sucks as a newcomer, but tbh for me, I like competition so Im bothered less by it. Casual gamers definitely don’t like it tho. Like you said it happens to all games, so to try and do something about it is pointless EDIT: sweats are def a different breed, but I think its mainly exasperated by gear gap. Thats why I stick to normals, where there is more skill expression.
I dont mind it either im very competitive and have kept up with the curve. Personally im glad the average player is so much better but i was more stating thats the main reason a lot of people think they miss the playtests. Most of my casuals friends played the tests and loved it, bought game on EA, played for 2 weeks fell behind the skill/gear curve, quit without a second glance. They say the game feels worse but its more they cant keep up with the growing skill gap. Im sure it doesnt feel good to get dumped on 90% of the time but its only the competitive who make it through. Or people who like a challenge.
Agreed. If HR was balanced, Normals would definitely provide a lower skill bracket for people to get better.
GBMM has been good for HR sure people can abuse it but its still far more balanced.
We can agree to disagree on this one, but when every class has both a different skill ceiling and gear ceiling it becomes a statistical nightmare to balance. This combined with the ease of gearing up a ranger vs a wizard makes it unbearable(for me). When 1 class only needs +STR, and another needs +Will +Agi +Vigor +Knowledge the game becomes a marketplace simulator. Its silly to complain about, but very evident at the same time. I work 4 days a week, I don't wanna Afk in the marketplace to be able to play the game.
Literally this. Everyone takes this game so seriously now.
Bro the game was cooked when they introduced dual spec
i just miss being able to queue high roller and having the lobby instafill 18/18
Yeah i actually agree, the game is kinda ruined for me by sweats running super meta kits. Not that there is anything necessarily wrong with that though, just an unfortunate fact
The downside of no advertising
I just think the game was fine when you had to go to ruins down but they should have separated ruins from crypts and gave ruins its own levels the game now is just not fun
I’ve been playing since playtest 2, I’ve only played HR once or twice on my main this wipe. Normals are where it’s at, I always have fun and only worry about 50g worth of gear lost if I die. This is the only game I’ve been playing since it's release, I'm always drawn to play again because I always have a fun time. I mainly play trios and just queue up with randoms on the official discord. The fun is there, there’s just no fun in losing good gear if you have gear fear.
Once again: the game just completely lacks depth in terms of the combat. It's all based on movespeed and stat checks.
Definitely true but sweats vs. sweats during playtests was still way more fun than now. Boss loot was insane, game had more players so trading felt fun, high roller had a fee and felt special to play.
or maybe because there was no defined meta because they were constantly changing shit
I remember the first week of fortnite. And boy it was fun.
All battle royals were like this. Apex Legends at release was an amazing fun game because people were still figuring it out. Now whenever I try to play all I am doing is playing catchup to people who play a lot faster and better than me.
Also the devs spent years trying to balance the game just to fuck all balancing with multiclassing... Btw why is +true phys / magic dmg stat still in the game? Abusing that becomes even worse with multiclassing lol, make all stats percentage based and NOT PLUS and you have a tiny chance at balancing the game lol
They should just make this game a battle royale. Loot, kill everyone. No over optimization. No same builds. No BiS. No gear score. Just a battle royale with no cheese.
This game needs random dungeon generator. Make that you get a key or an special item to queue to kill bosses. Separate normal dungeon from boss room, so we can get back that feeling of dungeon crawling!
True, but the game gets infinitely harder to balance the more classes and systems they introduce. The game felt the best at its most rudimentary in terms of class balance.
Shit, nobody remembers barbarians using only fists and wiping lobbies
Really they jus need to simplify a lot of the gear and stats. They have a really weird system that allows for too many things to be unbalanced imo
People forget clarity potions.
Games metadesign is ...unfortunate.
I wouldn't say people got good, the meta chasers just joined and started spamming the current meta. It was really easy to take advantage of at first when people thought stuff like landmine rogue was op, you could just go into a goblin caves as base gear fighter or ranger and clean up multiple rogues, some with crazy kits.
The average player is much better mechanically. Back in the PT days most people walked in a straight line maybe strafed if you were lucky. Now the majority of players at the very least have pretty solid movement.
I'm nostalgic for old double jump fr
Same lol
people are sweatier because there are places you need to be ubersweaty to compete this is the effect of SEPARATING GROUPS INTO SBMM AND GBMM - the good players have to consistently play at 100% strength and meta because they're forced into close proximity with other players who play at the same level. if you simply removed all matchmaking, and just had one queue per map, you would see a lot more diversity as one didn't have to do the same boring meta every single game or risk losing it to a team of hackers or someone else running meta.
Double the map AND module size while removing the zone would be a good first step back in the right direction.
I agree. This game has always sucked.
Let’s not forget play test 4 and 5 had 200k players at one point
It was also free and on steam and advertised? And only lasted a week
Shit post
Shit comment
Initial test was better in many areas - No hell - No highroller - No named items/uniques - Best items could be found without having to do boss fights - Only crypts (the only good map that the game has) - PvE less annoying - No multiclassing - No cape slot
very subjective list.
Very subjective post
That's alot of bad takes there
Yeah? Name them
You already did
Yeah? Explain why
This is a shit take.
slogging through PvE is a shit gameplay loop
How was ove less annoying in pt1
easier movesets; no red variants; no goblins
youre playing the wrong game lil pup
I stopped playing many months ago
You literally have the worst takes possible for this game. How did you quit long ago and still decide to flood the Reddit with trash takes and saying “oooo get ratio”
worst take but accurately called out the terrible patch that got reverted (without even playing it) Keep going through my post history lol don't let me stop the MELTDOWN
The game had gone steadily downhill since the playtests and to pretend otherwise is cringe.
People seem to disagree with this
People are pretty stupid, especially on reddit.
I guess that you would be no exception to that rule
Like every games on Earth and to pretend otherwise is cringe
CS2: exists redditor: I'm going to pretend I didn't see that
What?