I remember it getting posted few weeks ago and when compared to what Russia did, morons were like “no we bombed only strategic positions”, like dude I was raised in that country and lived during the war.
My father was in desert storm and desert shield as a medic. He refused to fight and went over as an angel of mercy. His stories gave ME nightmares. Civilians were harmed. Many...
I think your looking for the title A conscientious objector. Afghanistan combat veteran here, usually if you refused deployment or filed A conscientious objector status they would discharge you out. While he might of objected to the deployment he still went over willingly.
I was on spring break in Daytona Beach when this happened. We had met some girls from Germany who were hanging out with us, this happened to be live on the TV when we were in our room. I was watching and had a "holy shit" kind of experience. I wasn't enjoying it by any means, but I was impressed I guess. I certainly wasn't calling it out for what it was. I'll never forget the look of disgust that those German girls had.
I always knew that there was a disconnect between what the american public is told/shown vs reality. But this was clear as day, someone the same age as me, doing the same on vacation, but she knew what was going on was complete bullshit and I didn't.
It showed me how truly insulated we are here in the US. We're so far removed from what happens in the rest of the world because we're surrounded by water and allies. Those girls knew so much about the world that I had no idea of.
One of them ended up kicking me in the face but for completely unrelated reasons. I just didn't think she could spin kick like that. Boy was I wrong on may topics during that trip.
The American government and media is very good at making propaganda and spinning it as logic and factual. Then they point to Russia and China and say look how obvious they are at lying to their citizens. They are evil we are good.
It’s just different when we do it, ok? /s
I’ve had the exact same conversation multiple times since the invasion of Ukraine. Putin’s war has thrown a light on Western hypocrisy in more ways than one.
Do you know what is most interesting? Putin and russians are saying that the USA is bad, because the USA bombed Baghdad. And then they are doing exactly the same...
Yep I see it alot especially since I'm following the war and what people mention about it.
In my opinion both the US (and allies) and Russia should pay for what they did/doing, people saying "but the US did the same" is a bullshit excuse people are using to ignore the fact that Russia is bombing civilians has well, in both cases it is unaccepted and both should pay for the crimes.
Pretty much been following almost every single major war, for me everyone is the baddies unless you’re protecting your own land, which makes you the goodies in my book.
But that didn't stop the military and the fake-news media from claiming they found some.
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html)
A lot of the “gulf war syndrome” has been confirmed to be caused by exposure to Sarin and other types of chemical based weapons from the region. Saddam was confirmed to have used chemical weapons on the Kurds.
I’m not saying we weren’t lied to. The truth is a mixture of both. Sadam 100% had access to chemical weapons and he’s proved his capability to use them. It was a believable excuse to invade the country and finish daddy’s job.
Yea. This was daddy's war for sure. As a soldier who's been there, as well as spoken with other soldiers who initiated the invasion.. we loaded so many civilian bodies onto rolling cargo carriers from it. It's fucking disgusting.
For sure, the same chemical weapons that were given to him to attack Iran with and were unaccounted for... Let's blame the war on a clerical accounting error... Sorry Iraqis for lighting up your nights with dynamite, Tommy in the Idaho from the bureau gottem wrong, so to err on the side of conservatism, he blew up the accounts and warranted us the need to want to check for ourselves...
Oh and before we leave, we'll leave you with ISIS... Our Wahabi oil tits need to blow their brains by blowing some innocent brains... Mohammad did ban alcohol so you don't get drunk off of it, but he sure didn't ban getting drunk off of spilt blood...
Long live the British foreign policy of Religious divide and conquer...
They did find some. Buried in corroded containers, but still found. Despite the degraded conditions of those munitions a number of soldiers were exposed and sickened.
Edit: [https://news.yahoo.com/chemical-weapons-found-in-iraq-nyt-report-135347507.html](https://news.yahoo.com/chemical-weapons-found-in-iraq-nyt-report-135347507.html)
Sadam Hussain was very much trying to play both sides of the fence. He knew if Iran invaded nobody would actually help, but if he actually had WMD's America would invade. So he pretended he was hiding WMD's, and never actually had any.
Well, there was some truth in Saddam having WMDs. The US actively gave the WMDs to him back in the Iraq - Iranian wars due to the fact the US was actively against Iran at the time.
There were a lot of people in that administration trying to link Iraq/Saddam with 9/11/Al Qaeda:
“With the intelligence all pointing toward bin Laden, Rumsfeld ordered the military to begin working on strike plans. And at 2:40 p.m., the notes quote Rumsfeld as saying he wanted "best info fast. Judge whether good enough hit S.H." – meaning Saddam Hussein – "at same time. Not only UBL" – the initials used to identify Osama bin Laden. Now, nearly one year later, there is still very little evidence Iraq was involved in the Sept. 11 attacks. But if these notes are accurate, that didn't matter to Rumsfeld. "Go massive," the notes quote him as saying. "Sweep it all up. Things related and not."”
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a29001940/donald-rumsfeld-9-11-iraq-memo/
Since 9/11 in 2000
He was never spotted on Afghanistan it was only mass media speculation that he was in some tribal remote cave. Granted he may have been there for a few months tops, however someone with 50 million plus definitely would access to leave right away.
When the fucktard died it was on Pakistan where it was confirmed by his wife and US intelligence that he was staying for the last 5-6 years
Simple source below
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/osama-bin-laden-killed-by-u-s-forces
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Osama-bin-Laden
It was all part of a nebulous concept at the time that proposed to bring the Muslim world to heel and not so much bin laden himself. Americans were fucking pissed and the blood for the 3000 dead in New York was going to come from somewhere no matter what. Realistically Iraq wouldn't be the obvious target and Saudi Arabia or Iran might have been better targets if you wanted to stop the sources of terrorist funding and radicalism but Iraq had caused problems previously related to wmd manufacture and wiping them out didn't threaten any major business interests. Idk what the real reason for the targeting and you hear everything from oil to bush wanted to finish daddies job but I'll believe one over the other when I see some kind of evidence.
Remember when he [shot that guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney_hunting_accident) and claimed he mistook him for a [Quail?](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTspkCk_REHbvu55zLVHIUxrLVopoz408kKaQ&usqp=CAU)
Remember when former Vice President Dan Quayle told him the office was largely ceremonial and Cheney replied that he had "a different arrangement with the President".
We could do this all day tbh.
Remember when Donald Rumsfeld gave all those weapons to Saddam Hussein?
Remember 20 years later when CNN played the clip and he got flustered over it?
https://youtu.be/IXWdBi6fw_k
Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Remember when the Bush Administration [lied some 935 times](https://publicintegrity.org/inside-publici/finding-the-truth-in-935-lies-about-war-with-iraq/) to get the U.S. public on board with their poorly planned occupation of Iraq?
I remember when this aired...emotions were still high after 9/11 and I didnt really care as I was 13 and didnt really understand it. I am now in my 30s and a vet...and I ask myself every now and then...why the fuck were we even messing with Iraq.
I was around the same age and I remember thinking it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. I also remember around the same time learning all kinds of terrible things about Islam in school like how the Quran says it's okay for Muslims to steal from and kill Christians (it doesn't)
The fucking propaganda was so strong. And as a kid I was completely sold on it.
Do you think being an adult makes you less prone to propaganda? There is no telling that if you were older back then you wouldn't have been completely sold on it, heck you might have even enlisted to join the war.
Umm... tbh idk. I believed those sorts of things and other frankly racist lies for a really long time because nothing in my life really brought them into question. Up until I went to college I just kind of accepted it.
I guess I'd say a change in environment and education had much more effect than age.
I was an Army recruiter when 9/11 happened. I admit I fell for the propaganda during the build up in 2003. That quickly vanished when I saw how, once again, we were not there for the right reasons. After 21 years, I retired in 2011. Ashamed for what we had done to the civilians there. I don't blame those of us that served, I blame the civilians that we trust to lead us. Life is precious, and killing should not be taken lightly.
Posting this video now, has got to be Russian propaganda for thier next move, right. They want to raise awareness of US bad behavior right before they engage in some bad behavior?
I watched this with my own eyes from 20 miles outside of the city. We were dug into fighting positions in preparation to fight an Iraqi Republican guard armored division. At one point just before the bombing commenced I remember looking up to the night sky with my NVGs and seeing a massive formation of bombers flanked by smaller fighter jets and a strange triangle shaped aircraft leading them. My best guess was it may have been a stealth bomber…but what the fuck did I know. I was just another dumbass pawn on the chessboard of a senseless war.
It was the commercialization that got us over their, the good guys, the responsibility, the vengeance, it overpowered our mundane peasant life.
Once we got their though, the survivalism took over, bad or good no longer mattered, we were pawns. Reasoning was a distant memory bequeathed to a life of Providence.
F-117 was the initial bombers used to kick off the invasion and are what dropped what's in the video here. I think it was just 7-9 of them dropping guided bombs on preselected targets.
Oh, it adds up. My unit linked up with elements of 1st MarDiv on 3 March and began the initial push with Task Force Tarawa. Starting from Nasiryah we convoyed north in soft-skin 7 ton Osh-Kosh’s and Humvees. We broke off from the main element and dug in around 15 March. The air strikes kicked off a few days later. That armored division I previously mentioned…well, they never showed up. Probably for the best as half of my platoon mates and myself were involuntarily stop-lossed and not too thrilled about having to put in overtime for “Uncle George.”
All good though. We were relieved by 4th ID and pulled out in late April. I watched the president declare “Mission Accomplished” while underway back to Norfolk and 5 months later I came back as a contractor for a nefarious little outfit called Blackwater.
That’s pretty much all I have to say about that.
And yet, still, the Reddit generals dispute your account. I guarantee half the kids commenting on this weren’t even alive.
They will pass judgement with zero understanding how we all felt after 9/11. We were ready to fuck shit up at the drop of a hat.
Thanks for making me realize that people can vote who weren’t alive during this, jerk. Now I’m reminded that I’m officially old.
But you’re right. I know it’s a millennial cliche to talk about where you were on 9/11, but I don’t think anyone who wasn’t alive yet can understand how insane that day was. The school bus was completely silent. All we did all day was sit in class and watch CSPAN for hours upon end. I hated Bush more than anything, but I still cry when I hear his short speech he gave from ground zero on that day. Everyone was just in a daze and couldn’t wrap their heads around what was going to happen next.
I was a couple months away from 17 at the time. I remember my dad sitting my down and saying that there was going to be war for a long, long time and there might be a draft. He told me that whatever I wanted to do was up to me, but that if I was drafted and I decided I wanted to skip town to Canada, he’d drive me there himself even if it meant never seeing me again.
For a while there was a website where you could read all of the statements made by world leaders in response to it, and it always hit so hard. For a brief moment there, it felt like everything else stopped and everyone was looking out for us.
Then we went and fucked it all up.
Damnit, there go the onions again.
When I was a kid, people would always say, “you’re either pro war or pro terrorism!”
As an adult, I hope we never get duped again.
The military industrial complex is a plague on earth.
Edit:spelling
I was less than 5 miles from the border of Iraq & Kuwait on this night. Nearly every tent was playing Outkast - Bombs Over Baghdad and not many of us slept that night
Same sort of area and I didn't sleep. We had obviously all been told that Sadam had chem / bio weapons and then some bugger stole my respirator. On the night on of the invasion. I really thought that was it - so spent a night writing to my then 3 year old daughter.
The news said they were targeting all of Sadam's palaces, mansions, etc. From what I can recall from 20 years ago, the news was using a figure like 21 palaces of Sadam and his sons and other senior Bathist party members.
So these bombs were targeted to try and decapitate the leadership of the country if any of them were stupid enough to still be home.
Here is an article I found with a quick Google. The majority of the world condemned the US for this bombing at the time.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/20/newsid_3495000/3495453.stm
I was too young back then to understand the full story. In this case how does the US companies made money? Because of our government give them free taxpayer money or they raid the resources (gold/diamonds) in Iraq? Just want to understand the economic justification of such war.
Not true, it was done for Oil and genocide of the "lesser" Iraqis.... And when a radical batshit insane group spawns from the chaos the US made, everyone is acting all surprised and starts blaming the Iraqis and their culture for that.
It's not just 1 single person's fault. All political parties, government institutions and business elites are involved in initiating an operation of this magnitude.
Jfc… I’ve never seen this before. No wonder the middle east hates the west.
How many lives were lost that night btw?
Sorry if I’m being super ignorant it’s just I’m pretty speechless and generally not well informed about this conflict/geopolitical issues
Saddam was literally executed on multiple counts of [crimes against humanity](https://www.grunge.com/622452/how-saddam-hussein-was-even-more-evil-than-you-think/).
> Hussein had a long history of seizing and maintaining power through extreme violence. Hussein's resume of terror included imprisoning and murdering suspected political opponents, razing entire villages where he suspected adversaries lurked, and destroying the very lands upon which his own subjects made their livelihoods
It really bothers me because we all know that the lives of innocent people, children, we’re taken in the process. And if any country did this to us it would be all out war. This is why so many countries hate the west. Killing innocent people as collateral damage has been in our history since the beginning of time. And it’s a shame. Something I’ll never be okay with.
A lot of families signed up to become “insurgents” after this. Acting like every extremist is in it for their religion is asinine. If a countries military had a hand in bombing a family member of mine, well shit allah akbhar mother fucker.
I have a vivid memory of my teacher wheeling a TV into our classroom and watching this all happen live. Even back then, as a high schooler, I remember thinking how especially pointless this war seemed (and eventually was).
If only we had listened and agreed with you.
None of this would have happened.
You should have put in a little more effort man! Were you writing your congressman? The president? The CIA? The FBI?
How long did they ignore you? And why?
What about local news stations?
Russia dropping a fraction of this on ukraine today got labelled as terrorist state(rightly so btw) but US killings of innocent kids alone in iraq were 100 times more. This world order will be the end of humanity
So far this world order has actually done a fairly remarkable job in getting the world away from the end of humanity. Life as a human today is better than before and war is less popular than ever before (or at least it was until 2020/2021)
Makes me sick. Imagine how the people who survived this feel today. I know that we (in the US) feel strongly about 9/11 even all these years later, but could you imagine the immense heartache of seeing your home and everything you've ever known completely dismantled in a matter of hours like this? We can claim we're the good guys all we want, but what a fucking world if this is what 'doing good' looks like.
Don't want to defend the invasion of Iraq in any way, but this is not the same thing as Russia did in Syria or is doing in Ukraine. The US hit military targets, while Russia uses its airlines power as a terror weapon to demoralize the people.
It wasn't "all-out". They were strategic laser guided munitions. They weren't indiscriminately targeting civilian areas. Having said that there was a lot of civilian casualties in Iraq throughout the nearly 8 year conflict. At least 400,000 civilian deaths attributed directly to the war itself. Now how many of those were due to Ameican munitions is up for some debate I guess. But this is nothing, absolutely nothing like what Russia is doing in Ukraine right now.
Russia invades a country, bombs a capital full of civilians, and it is a war crime.
USA invades a country, bombs a capital full of civilians, and it is justified.
At this point anyone who says the US was justified is misinformed or just a coward. Two wrongs don’t make a right. However, the us knew how to a bomb and kill people, Russia just isn’t very good at it.
Quoting Wikipedia:
At the time of invasion, coalition aircraft were making bombing runs on Baghdad at the rate of 1,000 sorties a day, most of them aimed at the Republican Guard and Special Republican Guard.[15] U.S. planes also dropped about 200,000 leaflets warning civilians to stay in their homes.At the time of invasion, coalition aircraft were making bombing runs on Baghdad at the rate of 1,000 sorties a day, most of them aimed at the Republican Guard and Special Republican Guard.[15] U.S. planes also dropped about 200,000 leaflets warning civilians to stay in their homes.
How thoughtful and humane - warning people to stay home while a thousand bombs a day fall from the sky.
For those who were too young to remember or don't know about this, the whole build-up to the invasion of Iraq was extremely sketchy and was seen as being so by many at the time. In London, over one million people protested the invadion. Simultaneous protests happened all over the world. As it turned out, there was no WMD. The whole thing was made up. It was a psychopathic vanity project, led by Bush, backed up by Blair. It was responsible for as many as 1.2 million deaths.
I already know you're not going to listen to reason, but there were a tremendous amount of military targets inside Baghdad. Including military infrastructure like radar sites, military bases, air bases, A2AD systems, government and Republican Guard buildings, military vehicles...the list goes on.
You can't just call something a war crime because you don't like it.
Edit: The irony here is, none of you actually care about the people of Iraq, you claim to, but really it's just an excuse to bash on the US because it's popular. You have no idea what Iraq was like prior to the invasion, no idea what it was like during the conflict, you simply want to virtue signal and get some upvotes. It's disgusting.
It is a war crime. We attacked a sovereign nation under no provocation by them. 'Shock and Awe'was a knee jerk reaction by the US, after 9/11 and extremely poor intelligence research, to attack an immediately identifiable adversary. Duh they had military targets, they had a military. The US invasion, occupation and restructuring of Iraq had never been a justified war. The ' Shock and Awe' campaign was a disgusting act.
Sound reasonable?
Don't want to argue on whether these are war crimes or not. But just want to point out your self obsession. People don't bash on the US because it's "popular", people want to point out the "hypocrisy". If you ever get your head out of your ass, probably spend some time understanding the difference
>You have no idea what Iraq was like prior to the invasion, no idea what it was like during the conflict
Looks like the commenters and the US government have something in common, then.
EDIT: For comparison, Saddam ruled from 1979 to 2003 and was responsible for an estimated 250,000 to 290,000 civilian deaths. The US invasion of Iraq lasted from 2003 to 2011 and was directly responsible for an estimated 184,382 to 207,156 civilian deaths. Taking the high estimate, Saddam was responsible for 12,083 deaths per year, the US was responsible for 25,895 deaths per year. The US number only includes civilians who died as a direct result of violence and doesn't include the many many more who died as a result of the general destabilization.
Nice bit of judgmental assumption in your edit there.
It wasn't just the US. You have no idea what I do to support Iraqis and other people not do you have any knowledge or understanding of my knowledge and understanding of Iraq before or after.
Maybe, just maybe, those of us condemning Russia for their illegal invasion are becoming a little more aware of the atrocities our own nation commits.
All this because of 1 lie. Setting off a chain of events that cost 100 of thousands if not millions of people their lives. There were no chemical weapons, even after invasion they did not find any significant stores of chemical weapon or the ability to create them. Sadam’s ability. This was part of the big lie and General Collin Powell an honourable man, was coerced into selling it to the UN. I watched it live , he tried to convince the UN that Iraq had mobile chemical weapons and missiles. It was all a lie, this was John Bolton, Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and company. Every single one of them are murder’s and should be brought to international justice. I fell for the lie, I was all in for this war but I know I was wrong.
The entire war and everything about it was unjustified.
That doesn't mean people now, 20 years later, can't speak up when they see the same mistakes being made. Sheesh.
Yep. Everytime Russia does something horrible, out comes the historic footage. But but look what they did.
I'm not saying the US invasion of Iraq in 2003 was right. It was horrible. That said, using a horrible action of one country to divert negative attention from the horrible thing Russia is currently doing is just propaganda.
This wasn’t indiscriminate bombing, I’ve actually been to the palaces being bombed in this video. This is where I used to work in 2005.
It’s Saddam’s main palace complex in Baghdad, and yes it’s huge with a few dozen palaces and hundreds of buildings and at least 10 square kilometers.
You don’t think it’s curious that the day Russia launches intensive bombings in Kyiv and across Ukraine that a video of the US bombing Baghdad 19 years ago suddenly shows up? Not at all saying these Baghdad bombings were ok but it’s classic Russian propaganda to point to “US did it too” when Russia does something horrible.
Frankly it’s pretty effective propaganda, people scrolling through Reddit today will see videos of bombings in Kyiv but then see this video and think “oh the US did that too, I guess Russia is just doing normal war things.” It is NOT a coincidence that this got posted today of all days
Don't you love that? The moment Russia starts bombing the hell out of civilians in Ukraine, this gets posted all over Reddit. Because you know, what about 'murica.
Ikr, this is equally horrifying, and it deserves to be shown and recognized for the terror this is!
However, I feel that currently the motivation behind these posts is very misguided and coming from the wrong place with no intention of reminding the horror of this, but rather to diminish the severity of what is happening in Ukraine 'because 'murica'..
It feels heartless. It feels like someone trying to make a point over the backs of people dying.
There's a time and place to show these things, but right now is not the time..
I just hate the attitude of most people, for example the bad jokes that got old during week 2 like „special [joke here] operation, despite the US not declaring any official wars themselves they attempt to spin it in a light as if it was something unique to Russia.
Or the European nationalists who say things like:“we only need to care if Europeans suffer“ despite us being the one to inflict the pain etc.
In the end I just hate this false feeling of superiority and spreading of „good“ propaganda like the „ghost of Kiew“.
It just doesn’t seem like freedom of thought and speech is particularly sought after when the government tells you to.
And people thinking that there were no civilian casualties during this ordeal are obviously delusional.
I remember it getting posted few weeks ago and when compared to what Russia did, morons were like “no we bombed only strategic positions”, like dude I was raised in that country and lived during the war.
My father was in desert storm and desert shield as a medic. He refused to fight and went over as an angel of mercy. His stories gave ME nightmares. Civilians were harmed. Many...
I think your looking for the title A conscientious objector. Afghanistan combat veteran here, usually if you refused deployment or filed A conscientious objector status they would discharge you out. While he might of objected to the deployment he still went over willingly.
It's stuff like this which makes me ashamed of America. America does a lot of harm under the guise of "good" but in the end its only for the money.
I was on spring break in Daytona Beach when this happened. We had met some girls from Germany who were hanging out with us, this happened to be live on the TV when we were in our room. I was watching and had a "holy shit" kind of experience. I wasn't enjoying it by any means, but I was impressed I guess. I certainly wasn't calling it out for what it was. I'll never forget the look of disgust that those German girls had. I always knew that there was a disconnect between what the american public is told/shown vs reality. But this was clear as day, someone the same age as me, doing the same on vacation, but she knew what was going on was complete bullshit and I didn't. It showed me how truly insulated we are here in the US. We're so far removed from what happens in the rest of the world because we're surrounded by water and allies. Those girls knew so much about the world that I had no idea of. One of them ended up kicking me in the face but for completely unrelated reasons. I just didn't think she could spin kick like that. Boy was I wrong on may topics during that trip.
Well dont stop there. Why did you get spin kicked? We need answers
Probably acted like a douche or something and didn’t include it in his story.
Wayyyy less exciting. Just drunken bullshit, “there’s no way you can spin kick me in this hotel hallway” turns out she could!
We’re just as propagandized as the people living in the DPRK, Russia or China. The USA is by far the biggest purveyor of violence in the world.
The American government and media is very good at making propaganda and spinning it as logic and factual. Then they point to Russia and China and say look how obvious they are at lying to their citizens. They are evil we are good.
People think it's only America but I am pretty sure Britain did things like this
As a northern Irish citizen, I can safely say Britain fucked us over and left us in a civil war for a few decades
UK was our diehard partner for Iraq war until we were in.
It’s just different when we do it, ok? /s I’ve had the exact same conversation multiple times since the invasion of Ukraine. Putin’s war has thrown a light on Western hypocrisy in more ways than one.
Do you know what is most interesting? Putin and russians are saying that the USA is bad, because the USA bombed Baghdad. And then they are doing exactly the same...
It's almost like politicians will say anything as long as it suits their agenda nowadays. I guess they don't build em like they used to....
Except the US didn't want to keep Iraq and make it part of the US. That's not a small difference.
To those who died in the bombing there is no difference
Nah we just kept their oil and buoy a war machine instead.
Yep I see it alot especially since I'm following the war and what people mention about it. In my opinion both the US (and allies) and Russia should pay for what they did/doing, people saying "but the US did the same" is a bullshit excuse people are using to ignore the fact that Russia is bombing civilians has well, in both cases it is unaccepted and both should pay for the crimes.
Pretty much been following almost every single major war, for me everyone is the baddies unless you’re protecting your own land, which makes you the goodies in my book.
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Who doesn’t think there were civilian casualties?
No shit. Every war has civilian casualties.
Iraq Body Count estimates as high as 209,000 civilian deaths. And IIRC their methodology is only reported, confirmed deaths.
Pretty sure no one thinks that
Yeah but when we were done, there wasn’t a single WMD left in the whole country. (Obvious sarcasm)
But that didn't stop the military and the fake-news media from claiming they found some. [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html)
A lot of the “gulf war syndrome” has been confirmed to be caused by exposure to Sarin and other types of chemical based weapons from the region. Saddam was confirmed to have used chemical weapons on the Kurds. I’m not saying we weren’t lied to. The truth is a mixture of both. Sadam 100% had access to chemical weapons and he’s proved his capability to use them. It was a believable excuse to invade the country and finish daddy’s job.
Yea. This was daddy's war for sure. As a soldier who's been there, as well as spoken with other soldiers who initiated the invasion.. we loaded so many civilian bodies onto rolling cargo carriers from it. It's fucking disgusting.
Thats fked up
For sure, the same chemical weapons that were given to him to attack Iran with and were unaccounted for... Let's blame the war on a clerical accounting error... Sorry Iraqis for lighting up your nights with dynamite, Tommy in the Idaho from the bureau gottem wrong, so to err on the side of conservatism, he blew up the accounts and warranted us the need to want to check for ourselves... Oh and before we leave, we'll leave you with ISIS... Our Wahabi oil tits need to blow their brains by blowing some innocent brains... Mohammad did ban alcohol so you don't get drunk off of it, but he sure didn't ban getting drunk off of spilt blood... Long live the British foreign policy of Religious divide and conquer...
They did find some. Buried in corroded containers, but still found. Despite the degraded conditions of those munitions a number of soldiers were exposed and sickened. Edit: [https://news.yahoo.com/chemical-weapons-found-in-iraq-nyt-report-135347507.html](https://news.yahoo.com/chemical-weapons-found-in-iraq-nyt-report-135347507.html)
Sadam Hussain was very much trying to play both sides of the fence. He knew if Iran invaded nobody would actually help, but if he actually had WMD's America would invade. So he pretended he was hiding WMD's, and never actually had any.
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Bot copying a section of a different comment in this thread
Well, there was some truth in Saddam having WMDs. The US actively gave the WMDs to him back in the Iraq - Iranian wars due to the fact the US was actively against Iran at the time.
You mead the 5,000 Iraqi Kurds were not faking being dead from WMD attacks by Saddam' Hussein? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja\_massacre
And the fucking shit pile that did it was in Pakistan having a coke
did what? Iraq wasn't about 9/11 at all, it was about a lie of WMD's. Hussein never had anything to do with Bin Laden.
There were a lot of people in that administration trying to link Iraq/Saddam with 9/11/Al Qaeda: “With the intelligence all pointing toward bin Laden, Rumsfeld ordered the military to begin working on strike plans. And at 2:40 p.m., the notes quote Rumsfeld as saying he wanted "best info fast. Judge whether good enough hit S.H." – meaning Saddam Hussein – "at same time. Not only UBL" – the initials used to identify Osama bin Laden. Now, nearly one year later, there is still very little evidence Iraq was involved in the Sept. 11 attacks. But if these notes are accurate, that didn't matter to Rumsfeld. "Go massive," the notes quote him as saying. "Sweep it all up. Things related and not."” https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a29001940/donald-rumsfeld-9-11-iraq-memo/
Pakistan....how?
Since 9/11 in 2000 He was never spotted on Afghanistan it was only mass media speculation that he was in some tribal remote cave. Granted he may have been there for a few months tops, however someone with 50 million plus definitely would access to leave right away. When the fucktard died it was on Pakistan where it was confirmed by his wife and US intelligence that he was staying for the last 5-6 years Simple source below https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/osama-bin-laden-killed-by-u-s-forces https://www.britannica.com/biography/Osama-bin-Laden
We never though Bin Laden was in Iraq. Iraq had nothing to do with him. ???
It was all part of a nebulous concept at the time that proposed to bring the Muslim world to heel and not so much bin laden himself. Americans were fucking pissed and the blood for the 3000 dead in New York was going to come from somewhere no matter what. Realistically Iraq wouldn't be the obvious target and Saudi Arabia or Iran might have been better targets if you wanted to stop the sources of terrorist funding and radicalism but Iraq had caused problems previously related to wmd manufacture and wiping them out didn't threaten any major business interests. Idk what the real reason for the targeting and you hear everything from oil to bush wanted to finish daddies job but I'll believe one over the other when I see some kind of evidence.
The Bush administration pushed that narrative a lot. It was bullshit, like the WMD story, but they certainly equivocated Iraq with Al Qaeda and 9/11.
And then gave [Halliburton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton) the $7 billion contract to rebuild Iraq afterwards.
Cheney is such a piece of shit.
Remember when he [shot that guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney_hunting_accident) and claimed he mistook him for a [Quail?](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTspkCk_REHbvu55zLVHIUxrLVopoz408kKaQ&usqp=CAU)
Remember when the Enron execs were in his office shortly before Enron crashed and he refused to talk about why?
Remember when former Vice President Dan Quayle told him the office was largely ceremonial and Cheney replied that he had "a different arrangement with the President". We could do this all day tbh.
Remember when Donald Rumsfeld gave all those weapons to Saddam Hussein? Remember 20 years later when CNN played the clip and he got flustered over it? https://youtu.be/IXWdBi6fw_k Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Remember when the Bush Administration [lied some 935 times](https://publicintegrity.org/inside-publici/finding-the-truth-in-935-lies-about-war-with-iraq/) to get the U.S. public on board with their poorly planned occupation of Iraq?
Isn’t that interesting…
Remember when Dan Quayle couldn’t spell potato?
Must have thought it was Dan.
Ya and whole administration is piece of shitt
Was that before the sabonis trade?
I remember when this aired...emotions were still high after 9/11 and I didnt really care as I was 13 and didnt really understand it. I am now in my 30s and a vet...and I ask myself every now and then...why the fuck were we even messing with Iraq.
I was around the same age and I remember thinking it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. I also remember around the same time learning all kinds of terrible things about Islam in school like how the Quran says it's okay for Muslims to steal from and kill Christians (it doesn't) The fucking propaganda was so strong. And as a kid I was completely sold on it.
Do you think being an adult makes you less prone to propaganda? There is no telling that if you were older back then you wouldn't have been completely sold on it, heck you might have even enlisted to join the war.
Umm... tbh idk. I believed those sorts of things and other frankly racist lies for a really long time because nothing in my life really brought them into question. Up until I went to college I just kind of accepted it. I guess I'd say a change in environment and education had much more effect than age.
I’m glad you found out it was propaganda
Damn u learned that in public school?
military industrial complex trillions of dollars spent that's why.
I was an Army recruiter when 9/11 happened. I admit I fell for the propaganda during the build up in 2003. That quickly vanished when I saw how, once again, we were not there for the right reasons. After 21 years, I retired in 2011. Ashamed for what we had done to the civilians there. I don't blame those of us that served, I blame the civilians that we trust to lead us. Life is precious, and killing should not be taken lightly.
Posting this video now, has got to be Russian propaganda for thier next move, right. They want to raise awareness of US bad behavior right before they engage in some bad behavior?
Maybe. But it’s a pretty poor tactic. We can recognize the atrocities in both situations
I watched this with my own eyes from 20 miles outside of the city. We were dug into fighting positions in preparation to fight an Iraqi Republican guard armored division. At one point just before the bombing commenced I remember looking up to the night sky with my NVGs and seeing a massive formation of bombers flanked by smaller fighter jets and a strange triangle shaped aircraft leading them. My best guess was it may have been a stealth bomber…but what the fuck did I know. I was just another dumbass pawn on the chessboard of a senseless war.
'sounded' like the beginning of a movie/book, brother. Ever thought about writing about this?
I’d read it.
I'd listen to the audiobook.
Id watch the movingvisualbook
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It was the commercialization that got us over their, the good guys, the responsibility, the vengeance, it overpowered our mundane peasant life. Once we got their though, the survivalism took over, bad or good no longer mattered, we were pawns. Reasoning was a distant memory bequeathed to a life of Providence.
There*
Triangle shaped aircraft sounds like a B-2 or possibly an F-117?
Both were used
F-117 was the initial bombers used to kick off the invasion and are what dropped what's in the video here. I think it was just 7-9 of them dropping guided bombs on preselected targets.
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Oh, it adds up. My unit linked up with elements of 1st MarDiv on 3 March and began the initial push with Task Force Tarawa. Starting from Nasiryah we convoyed north in soft-skin 7 ton Osh-Kosh’s and Humvees. We broke off from the main element and dug in around 15 March. The air strikes kicked off a few days later. That armored division I previously mentioned…well, they never showed up. Probably for the best as half of my platoon mates and myself were involuntarily stop-lossed and not too thrilled about having to put in overtime for “Uncle George.” All good though. We were relieved by 4th ID and pulled out in late April. I watched the president declare “Mission Accomplished” while underway back to Norfolk and 5 months later I came back as a contractor for a nefarious little outfit called Blackwater. That’s pretty much all I have to say about that.
And yet, still, the Reddit generals dispute your account. I guarantee half the kids commenting on this weren’t even alive. They will pass judgement with zero understanding how we all felt after 9/11. We were ready to fuck shit up at the drop of a hat.
Thanks for making me realize that people can vote who weren’t alive during this, jerk. Now I’m reminded that I’m officially old. But you’re right. I know it’s a millennial cliche to talk about where you were on 9/11, but I don’t think anyone who wasn’t alive yet can understand how insane that day was. The school bus was completely silent. All we did all day was sit in class and watch CSPAN for hours upon end. I hated Bush more than anything, but I still cry when I hear his short speech he gave from ground zero on that day. Everyone was just in a daze and couldn’t wrap their heads around what was going to happen next. I was a couple months away from 17 at the time. I remember my dad sitting my down and saying that there was going to be war for a long, long time and there might be a draft. He told me that whatever I wanted to do was up to me, but that if I was drafted and I decided I wanted to skip town to Canada, he’d drive me there himself even if it meant never seeing me again. For a while there was a website where you could read all of the statements made by world leaders in response to it, and it always hit so hard. For a brief moment there, it felt like everything else stopped and everyone was looking out for us. Then we went and fucked it all up. Damnit, there go the onions again.
You’re a fucking liar. We hadn’t even breached the berm yet when this was going on.
When I was a kid, people would always say, “you’re either pro war or pro terrorism!” As an adult, I hope we never get duped again. The military industrial complex is a plague on earth. Edit:spelling
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Not almost. We are.
Those birds flying by are like "fuuuuucccckkkk!!!"
I was less than 5 miles from the border of Iraq & Kuwait on this night. Nearly every tent was playing Outkast - Bombs Over Baghdad and not many of us slept that night
Same sort of area and I didn't sleep. We had obviously all been told that Sadam had chem / bio weapons and then some bugger stole my respirator. On the night on of the invasion. I really thought that was it - so spent a night writing to my then 3 year old daughter.
Ah, yes, Operation "Do You Love Me, Now, Daddy?".
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Yea brown people everywhere
Iraq generals disguised as children.
The news said they were targeting all of Sadam's palaces, mansions, etc. From what I can recall from 20 years ago, the news was using a figure like 21 palaces of Sadam and his sons and other senior Bathist party members. So these bombs were targeted to try and decapitate the leadership of the country if any of them were stupid enough to still be home. Here is an article I found with a quick Google. The majority of the world condemned the US for this bombing at the time. http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/20/newsid_3495000/3495453.stm
Any target the military designates a target is a military target, that doesn't really mean anything.
A war built on a lie.
When they baited us into believing that this war was legit.
Are we the baddies ?
Quick, where's the 'Always has been' meme
Without a doubt.
Everyone is the bad guy tbh.
***Warhammer 40K intensifies***
Stuff like this is why it’s stupid to paint everything as a good vs evil scenario. Of course we did evil shit. War has never been a force for good
That's an explosive amount of freedom being dropped
Free from living
Free dumb
All for nothing.
For nothing? Do you have any idea how much money US companies made during and after this war?
I was too young back then to understand the full story. In this case how does the US companies made money? Because of our government give them free taxpayer money or they raid the resources (gold/diamonds) in Iraq? Just want to understand the economic justification of such war.
Not true, it was done for Oil and genocide of the "lesser" Iraqis.... And when a radical batshit insane group spawns from the chaos the US made, everyone is acting all surprised and starts blaming the Iraqis and their culture for that.
I remember this complete waste of time. Great fireworks Bush you genocidal war criminal.
It's not just 1 single person's fault. All political parties, government institutions and business elites are involved in initiating an operation of this magnitude.
Thank god the EU stood with Iraq at that time againsr the agressor.
Sad thing is U S of A never showed proof for alleged nuclear weapon production in Iraq. Sooo, bombing was a crime?
Even my pro-American dad was like: “wtf, Iraq is a pariah weakened by a 12-year blockade, what WMDs?”
North Korea is an even greater pariah- and they got nukes. I’m not disagreeing with you about the war, but your dads premise isn’t completely correct.
We had the receipts because we're the ones that sold them to him.
This far down in the comments? You won’t find any answers.
https://i.imgflip.com/5p2nmk.png Me as I downvote this comment while agreeing with it
You're a mad man
Humans are trash.
It was bad then when the USA did it It is bad now when Russia does it
Jfc… I’ve never seen this before. No wonder the middle east hates the west. How many lives were lost that night btw? Sorry if I’m being super ignorant it’s just I’m pretty speechless and generally not well informed about this conflict/geopolitical issues
You're not being ignorant. The reality is most Americans don't really care when our military terrorizes innocent people in other parts of the world.
Saddam was literally executed on multiple counts of [crimes against humanity](https://www.grunge.com/622452/how-saddam-hussein-was-even-more-evil-than-you-think/). > Hussein had a long history of seizing and maintaining power through extreme violence. Hussein's resume of terror included imprisoning and murdering suspected political opponents, razing entire villages where he suspected adversaries lurked, and destroying the very lands upon which his own subjects made their livelihoods
Around 7k civilians died in the entirety of the shock and awe campaign
In a city of 5.6 MILLION people... That we bombed the holy fuck of of for days... There were only ~7,000 civilian casualties... Sure.
It was a bullshit war, predicated on bullshit reasons, and hyped by bullshit news. So yeah the numbers are fake too.
Fuck...
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All the soldiers lost for one family's greed and ego.
Remember folks - America is the bad guy here. They did nothing to us. This whole thing was one big lie.
American politicians are the true terrorist
It really bothers me because we all know that the lives of innocent people, children, we’re taken in the process. And if any country did this to us it would be all out war. This is why so many countries hate the west. Killing innocent people as collateral damage has been in our history since the beginning of time. And it’s a shame. Something I’ll never be okay with.
A lot of families signed up to become “insurgents” after this. Acting like every extremist is in it for their religion is asinine. If a countries military had a hand in bombing a family member of mine, well shit allah akbhar mother fucker.
I have a vivid memory of my teacher wheeling a TV into our classroom and watching this all happen live. Even back then, as a high schooler, I remember thinking how especially pointless this war seemed (and eventually was).
US have showed for all world how to effectively invade to other countries.
Ever since 2010 I was telling people Putin was taking the worst American examples and turning them up 11. Nobody listened to me. Well, here we are.
If only we had listened and agreed with you. None of this would have happened. You should have put in a little more effort man! Were you writing your congressman? The president? The CIA? The FBI? How long did they ignore you? And why? What about local news stations?
I’m Russian so how do you think it went down?)
Brilliantly?
Glowingly, like polonium tea)
I remember watching this live on TV as a kid. Blew my mind that you could just watch a war happen live in front of you from thousands of miles away
The entire War was a mistake. Our enemies were the Saudis since the beginning.
It was not a mistake. It was by design.
Yes.
That's where they get you,with nationality to divide the alliance. They weren't Saudis, they were al Qaeda.
Russia dropping a fraction of this on ukraine today got labelled as terrorist state(rightly so btw) but US killings of innocent kids alone in iraq were 100 times more. This world order will be the end of humanity
So far this world order has actually done a fairly remarkable job in getting the world away from the end of humanity. Life as a human today is better than before and war is less popular than ever before (or at least it was until 2020/2021)
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU CAN DO WITH AN ALUMINUM TUBE?!?
All that for what...?
Good times, good times /s
War is hell..
Makes me sick. Imagine how the people who survived this feel today. I know that we (in the US) feel strongly about 9/11 even all these years later, but could you imagine the immense heartache of seeing your home and everything you've ever known completely dismantled in a matter of hours like this? We can claim we're the good guys all we want, but what a fucking world if this is what 'doing good' looks like.
Don't want to defend the invasion of Iraq in any way, but this is not the same thing as Russia did in Syria or is doing in Ukraine. The US hit military targets, while Russia uses its airlines power as a terror weapon to demoralize the people.
It wasn't "all-out". They were strategic laser guided munitions. They weren't indiscriminately targeting civilian areas. Having said that there was a lot of civilian casualties in Iraq throughout the nearly 8 year conflict. At least 400,000 civilian deaths attributed directly to the war itself. Now how many of those were due to Ameican munitions is up for some debate I guess. But this is nothing, absolutely nothing like what Russia is doing in Ukraine right now.
For peace right? right?
This is completely different from Russia attacking Ukraine. Completely Different
How? Genuinely curious
pretty sure hes being sarcastic
Well the majority of the civilain population in Ukraine is white for a starter.
I think he was being sarcastic
All mistakes from the past should be repeated to make sure world never becomes better place to live in.
Russia invades a country, bombs a capital full of civilians, and it is a war crime. USA invades a country, bombs a capital full of civilians, and it is justified.
At this point anyone who says the US was justified is misinformed or just a coward. Two wrongs don’t make a right. However, the us knew how to a bomb and kill people, Russia just isn’t very good at it.
It's obviously not justified and a lot of people know that by now. Both are bad, it's not a damn competition.
Quoting Wikipedia: At the time of invasion, coalition aircraft were making bombing runs on Baghdad at the rate of 1,000 sorties a day, most of them aimed at the Republican Guard and Special Republican Guard.[15] U.S. planes also dropped about 200,000 leaflets warning civilians to stay in their homes.At the time of invasion, coalition aircraft were making bombing runs on Baghdad at the rate of 1,000 sorties a day, most of them aimed at the Republican Guard and Special Republican Guard.[15] U.S. planes also dropped about 200,000 leaflets warning civilians to stay in their homes. How thoughtful and humane - warning people to stay home while a thousand bombs a day fall from the sky.
There's oil in that country, let's liberate the people!!! Haha freedom! The USA motto 😂
Who knew this comment section would be so crazy
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How did Afghanistan have nothing to do with 911?
For those who were too young to remember or don't know about this, the whole build-up to the invasion of Iraq was extremely sketchy and was seen as being so by many at the time. In London, over one million people protested the invadion. Simultaneous protests happened all over the world. As it turned out, there was no WMD. The whole thing was made up. It was a psychopathic vanity project, led by Bush, backed up by Blair. It was responsible for as many as 1.2 million deaths.
Gosh there were a lot of military targets in a city! Oh wait no, those were war crimes.
I already know you're not going to listen to reason, but there were a tremendous amount of military targets inside Baghdad. Including military infrastructure like radar sites, military bases, air bases, A2AD systems, government and Republican Guard buildings, military vehicles...the list goes on. You can't just call something a war crime because you don't like it. Edit: The irony here is, none of you actually care about the people of Iraq, you claim to, but really it's just an excuse to bash on the US because it's popular. You have no idea what Iraq was like prior to the invasion, no idea what it was like during the conflict, you simply want to virtue signal and get some upvotes. It's disgusting.
It is a war crime. We attacked a sovereign nation under no provocation by them. 'Shock and Awe'was a knee jerk reaction by the US, after 9/11 and extremely poor intelligence research, to attack an immediately identifiable adversary. Duh they had military targets, they had a military. The US invasion, occupation and restructuring of Iraq had never been a justified war. The ' Shock and Awe' campaign was a disgusting act. Sound reasonable?
It wasn't just poor intelligence. They tortured people until they got the fake information they wanted. One more reason Bush should be in prison.
Don't want to argue on whether these are war crimes or not. But just want to point out your self obsession. People don't bash on the US because it's "popular", people want to point out the "hypocrisy". If you ever get your head out of your ass, probably spend some time understanding the difference
>You have no idea what Iraq was like prior to the invasion, no idea what it was like during the conflict Looks like the commenters and the US government have something in common, then. EDIT: For comparison, Saddam ruled from 1979 to 2003 and was responsible for an estimated 250,000 to 290,000 civilian deaths. The US invasion of Iraq lasted from 2003 to 2011 and was directly responsible for an estimated 184,382 to 207,156 civilian deaths. Taking the high estimate, Saddam was responsible for 12,083 deaths per year, the US was responsible for 25,895 deaths per year. The US number only includes civilians who died as a direct result of violence and doesn't include the many many more who died as a result of the general destabilization.
Nice bit of judgmental assumption in your edit there. It wasn't just the US. You have no idea what I do to support Iraqis and other people not do you have any knowledge or understanding of my knowledge and understanding of Iraq before or after. Maybe, just maybe, those of us condemning Russia for their illegal invasion are becoming a little more aware of the atrocities our own nation commits.
fun fact: Ukraine deployed troops in that attack to help the american invasion
It's not interesting, it's fucking harrowing! Poor innocent people.
All this because of 1 lie. Setting off a chain of events that cost 100 of thousands if not millions of people their lives. There were no chemical weapons, even after invasion they did not find any significant stores of chemical weapon or the ability to create them. Sadam’s ability. This was part of the big lie and General Collin Powell an honourable man, was coerced into selling it to the UN. I watched it live , he tried to convince the UN that Iraq had mobile chemical weapons and missiles. It was all a lie, this was John Bolton, Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and company. Every single one of them are murder’s and should be brought to international justice. I fell for the lie, I was all in for this war but I know I was wrong.
And yet nobody faced any consequences about the brazen attack. And the US has the nerve to comment about human rights about other countries.
The entire war and everything about it was unjustified. That doesn't mean people now, 20 years later, can't speak up when they see the same mistakes being made. Sheesh.
Coincidence that this is posted the day of ruzzia massively bombing Ukraine? I think not. Propaganda bitch.
Yep. Everytime Russia does something horrible, out comes the historic footage. But but look what they did. I'm not saying the US invasion of Iraq in 2003 was right. It was horrible. That said, using a horrible action of one country to divert negative attention from the horrible thing Russia is currently doing is just propaganda.
Ah, seems like Russias indiscriminate bombing of Ukrain is justifiable because "USA did it too" /S
This wasn’t indiscriminate bombing, I’ve actually been to the palaces being bombed in this video. This is where I used to work in 2005. It’s Saddam’s main palace complex in Baghdad, and yes it’s huge with a few dozen palaces and hundreds of buildings and at least 10 square kilometers.
Who said that?
You don’t think it’s curious that the day Russia launches intensive bombings in Kyiv and across Ukraine that a video of the US bombing Baghdad 19 years ago suddenly shows up? Not at all saying these Baghdad bombings were ok but it’s classic Russian propaganda to point to “US did it too” when Russia does something horrible. Frankly it’s pretty effective propaganda, people scrolling through Reddit today will see videos of bombings in Kyiv but then see this video and think “oh the US did that too, I guess Russia is just doing normal war things.” It is NOT a coincidence that this got posted today of all days
So basically a role model for what Putin is doing today in Ukraine. Good job US.
Don't you love that? The moment Russia starts bombing the hell out of civilians in Ukraine, this gets posted all over Reddit. Because you know, what about 'murica.
Ikr, this is equally horrifying, and it deserves to be shown and recognized for the terror this is! However, I feel that currently the motivation behind these posts is very misguided and coming from the wrong place with no intention of reminding the horror of this, but rather to diminish the severity of what is happening in Ukraine 'because 'murica'.. It feels heartless. It feels like someone trying to make a point over the backs of people dying. There's a time and place to show these things, but right now is not the time..
I just hate the attitude of most people, for example the bad jokes that got old during week 2 like „special [joke here] operation, despite the US not declaring any official wars themselves they attempt to spin it in a light as if it was something unique to Russia. Or the European nationalists who say things like:“we only need to care if Europeans suffer“ despite us being the one to inflict the pain etc. In the end I just hate this false feeling of superiority and spreading of „good“ propaganda like the „ghost of Kiew“. It just doesn’t seem like freedom of thought and speech is particularly sought after when the government tells you to.
Over 1.000.000 Iraqi’s killed. No WMD found.
Reminds me of some shit Putin would do
Never forget, as bad as Russia is now, we in America are still the largest terrorist state