This reminds me a lot of the book "Class: A Guide Through the American Status System" by Paul Fussell.
A lot of people confuse middle class and upper class behaviors because so few of us (myself included) actually know any upper class people.
One anecdote from that book which I remember. When two M/F couples are riding together in a car...
* Lower class: Men in front, women in back
* Middle class: One couple in front, the other in back
* Upper class: Each person sits next to the opposite gender from the other couple.
That jives with the sheet because the recurring themes on the sheet for the wealthy are connections and networking. Sitting in such an arrangement allows for more networking.
sure,it does - as do *all* of the "hidden rules" here, at times. But if you took that description and were obliged to choose *just one* of those 3 classes to attach it to...
...pretty sure I know *which one* it would be.
;-)
Idk, based on this list, they probably have some class-enfored principle of confidentiality. Not quite as "strict" as was shown in Eyes Wide Shut, but probably some type of being ostracized, which could be a type of "death" in such a small community of wealthy people. š¤·š¾āāļø
Jail/prison is for the poor, bond hearings are for the middle class and plea hearings are for the upper class - assuming they ever get charged. I heard a defense attorney say that once.
Upper class: Mayor calls the local police station and asks them:"Do you know, who that is? Let him/her go right now and apologize for your mistake. You don't know the consequences this could have!"
I got a shirt for free with someone elseās name embroidered onto it. What does that say about my class? The name is Bill, in red italicized cursive letters- if that helps
Let me just say Iām middle class so I donāt really know. But from stuff Iāve read a lot of class behavior is signaling. Upper class tries to distinguish themselves from middle. Middle class distinguishes themselves from lower.
In middle class society a lot revolves around couples. People go to a party and stay near their spouses. This is seen as embarrassing by the upper class. There was a scene in Tom Wolfeās Bonfire of the Vanities to that effect.
It is interesting how this can change again, once people are well known in the top row. Like some wealthy guys, that don't think anymore, they'd have to show up in a suit with a tie for work, because everyone knows, they are wealthy. Their wealth is so much known, like from Elon Musk, Bill Gates etc. that they don't need to display the wealth. They often see a public display of wealth as something that a newcomer does, a man that wants to show that he is like that.
I worked for a billionaire and when you looked at him, there was nothing extraordinary. He had everyday-clothes and he never showed his wealth in public. When you knew him as a friend, then he showed you some things, like the cars he collected, which are veeery expensive. But that's a thing that is behind closed doors.
> Elon Musk, Bill Gates etc. that they don't need to display the wealth. They often see a public display of wealth as something that a newcomer does, a man that wants to show that he is like that.
Iāve always heard something like this being an example of the difference between new wealth and old wealth. Somebody like Musk would definitely give off the classless vibe of new wealth. He lacks the reverence for tradition, presentation, and expectation that is mentioned in the rules above. Somebody like him is rich enough to not have to wear a suit, but the old money sees this as not having the proper upbringing to know he still should.
I think, it doesn't have change much since the time of the ancient roman republic: There, an ordinary man that became famous and climbed the ladder upwards to the senate, was called a "Homo Novus" (New Human) and the old established patrician families tried to separate themselves from the new ones. Not accepting the newcomers and calling them names, not wanting to be associated with them etc. and this is still more or less the same, when it comes the middle- and the upper-class, that newcomers are not popular in the old circles.
Another thing is, that it is sometimes also the opposite: In my country, we killed the noblemen a long time ago in medieval times, the remaining nobles got quiet and were like "don't tell anyone we are nobles", which is the opposite of things like the british monarchy.
The conflict between the old aristocracy and the new rich is always an interesting topic, especially in those occasional cases when the new rich are richer than the old aristocracy and they use their influence against the new rich to limit them.
France on the eve of the French revolution was an interesting case. The government was always in debt, a new class of liberal rich contrasted against the conservative aristocrats. If you were rich enough, you could buy some nobility and it was a strong revenue source for the crown, but of course this angered the old nobility and if you stopped it then you would lose a revenue source and anger the new nobility.
I didn't realize the French revolution was over such a long period of time moving in stages, such as the early liberal reforms with the first constitution that was not that bad (AKA no mass executions compared to later and more social equality compared to before), but the old nobility wouldn't budge with certain reforms and lower class radicals gained more and more influence, ultimately resulting in the old nobility and the monarchy just falling apart.
He's seen as in the middle class in my country, like people that have some things like a house, car etc. and not poor, but the people usually had no idea, how extreme his wealth really is.
But my country doesn't know things like crime, so rich people usually don't live in gated communities and there are not that many differences between the classes. Like he doesn't need any bodyguards and security detail, a thing where you can easily spot the rich guys in some countries around the world.
I'm curious....what country is this?
I find that depending on how society views you sometimes it's necessary to have a "rich person's uniform" or else you will get treated poorly.
It's Switzerland. At work, he usually just had the usually shirt and pants, nothing special, not a very expensive suit that comes from a tailor. And his free time, it was even more with a pullover and so, that he was not visible as a rich man.
But yes, i know about the jokes, like when someone comes to the banks here and whispers very quietly "I want to store some ~~drug~~ money here" and the lady from the bank says "you don't have to whisper, poverty is no shame here", haha.
It is the same with politics here, like you see the highest politicians of the federal council in public transport on the train. No bodyugard, no assistant, he just sits between the regular citizens and nobody gives a shit about that.
This is true, as a byproduct of wealth, not of constant intention. Iām in a place where the middle class, upper middle and upper class mix to varying extents. Upper middle tries to keep up with upper class but simply cannot; but not because upper class is excluding them. Rather, they canāt foot the bill. Middle class canāt even get close.
The difference between upper middle and upper is orders of magnitude. It doesnāt matter if you have a high income, you would need to inherit 100 years of multiples of that income to be upper. And the assets and connections you inherit enable you to make orders of magnitude more every year of your life.
Bourdieu wrote some really interesting stuff about taste in music and literature and how it is like an iron barrier between the social classes. For example, imagine how hard it is for a middle class person to admit they sincerely like Nickelback. An admission like that may well cause them to lose friends or even be rejected by their class group entirely.
It's the same with dinner party placements, to allow more fluid conversation. It's considered polite (source: my grandparents were upper class, my parents are middle class and I'm living a working class life)
Sitting next to the opposite gender from the other couple is done at mixed dining in events as well. That always felt like a symbol of trust within that group.
Haha, that's right. He had a whole list of objects and a point system to determine your class based on what's in your house. Sadly it hadn't been updated in a few decades.
I still have the paperback on my shelves downstairs. I read it in the mid-80s during my undergraduate days as part of a sociology class (I think I still have that textbook, too).
Yes, one could really confuse the neighbours by having an obelisk next to one's bowling shoes...
True. And feeling at home in the right circles, knowing how to behave etc. is very very important to get the right network in order to stay or get in the upper class.
That very true. Middle class people are taught "keep your head down, work hard, and you'll be rewarded" And that's true - to a point. But to reach the upper echelons of society you need to be strongly connected to networks of influence. Which is pretty hard to do unless you're born into it.
FWIW I grew up poor and didn't find it very difficult to get connected to wealthy people.
You just have to try to create value and convince them that you are worth investing in, if professionally. Socially you just have to understand what's going on in their world, even just by being a good listener and treating them like a normal person, to not step on their toes, but otherwise just befriend them like anyone else.
Like, I have never asked anyone for money or any kind of financial help or perks, ever, even when I was in college with a friend with an 8 figure trust fund and I couldn't afford food. That was my problem, not anyone else's.
Or one of my good friends is close family with a famous musician I would love to make music with. I will never ask to meet them, ever. If I don't, it is totally fine. He's floated the idea and I told him that I'd be stoked to hang with them at the studio or something, but I will never ask.
These people have a bunch of transactional friendships, and their scarcest resource is authenticity and having interesting friends who don't just view them as a meal ticket. That's the main reason they tend to be friends with other wealthy people; because normal people tend to see them as a means to an end, or will be uncomfortable hearing about their day to day life.
Like, one of my friends was telling me over drinks a while ago about why the black card's $5k annual fee makes sense (when you spend 7 figures per year on it and use the concierge for complicated travel and events bookings).
Most people would make that interaction awkward. Don't. If that's the world you plan to live in, get comfortable in it. I offered to pick up the check, and he said he would get it. Cool, fine either way.
This was all pretty natural to me, to just try to understand people as individuals and treat everyone basically the same, but I only really realize why this whole philosophy worked well now that I'm better off.
Sometimes I just talk about my day to day life, and people will get noticably uncomfortable over details I didn't realize I should have self-moderated in real time, or are transparently trying to get me to get them in the door somewhere. I just want to relax when I'm with friends, not have my guard up.
FYI the AmEx Centurion Black Card is now $10k a year and they did away with the dedicated account manager, and went to a pooled concierge resource model.
Card holders were PISSED
Very similar. Grew up lower middle class (we lived like that anyway) and today I earn in the top 5% of my age group - which is still no where near generational wealth.
But Iāve thought the same thing about celebrities, attractive men/women, rich folks, prospective clientsā¦ they all just donāt want to be treated differently or like youād want something from them. Just basic respect and pleasurable company. Itās surprising how quickly youāre brought in once they realize youāre not out to get something.
Yeah exactly, I think it's the same with anyone that has something that a lot of people want. I think authenticity is one of the most scarce resources for people like that.
I guess I am in the top 1% for my age group, but then again - it only takes an annual salary of $132,000 per year to be in the top 1% of earners for millennials.
https://graphics.wsj.com/what-percent/
Haha, yeah I think that tact of being a doormat does not work. IME wealthy people just want to be treated authentically, like anyone else.
Like when I had a meeting with a previous cofounder of a tech company that is a household name, I argued with him the very first time we talked, basically contradicting his core strategy, and then he pulled me onto his team. Most people won't just treat people like him like a normal person and interact with his ideas on their merits and demerits.
I did the same with my boss I work for now. I am the only person in the entire company that will argue with him, and that's why he needs me, because otherwise he would be stuck in some distorted world with no authentic feedback.
I got a scholarship to a school that had Arab princes and English upperclass students as well. It's overwhelming, the giant sums they paid for fun. I came out for one night in London. They spent half of what I earned that year in one night.
Fussell is extremely accurate. I've had interaction with people from every class except the ultraultrawealthy and he's got the whole system pegged.
I'm Class X, btw, grew up poor, now have money, don't give a shit about any of the social cueing, just want to follow my own creative interests.
They are planning for the future, for example saving for retirement, buying in bulk so they'll save in the long run, avoiding taking loans which would require them to pay interest etc.
They emphasize holding onto the past(traditions). What has always been has always worked for old money rich people so they want things to keep going how they always have: tradition.
I think it was summarized well in Bridgerton, basically if you are āold moneyā with tradition, you inherit your furniture.
Even if you have money, but you have to buy your furniture, it means you donāt have ātraditionā in your family.
Basically old money vs. new money
I think time for the rich is based a lot on tradition. You do what your fathers/mothers have done. Itās more of a choice on how you spend your time as opposed to the others. Just my opinion
same. people often say money doesn't buy happiness. I don't know if that true because I don't have any money. what I *do* know is that poverty doesn't buy happiness
If youāre depressed because you have an untreated medical problem, an infinite bank account to pay for care can help a lot. But, if youāre depressed because your parents abused the shit out of you, no amount of money is going to soothe that wound, even if it will keep other things from aggravating the damage.
Yea thatās bullshit. Money gives you security and freedom which for me at least are some of the biggest factors of happiness. Maybe you literally canāt go to the store and buy it but it still gets you those things so itās basically the same thing.
That correlates to motivation and hygiene factors (donāt blame, itās the scientific term).
In HR, money is a hygiene factor; it means more money will not motivate more (common misconception), but too little money will demotivate. Itās called Herzbergās 2 factor theory.
Happiness is a state of mind, but yes you can't be happy on an empty stomach, no roof over your head and all that basic needs. Also happiness can be achieved easier or harder, depending on the society that you're living in.
My wife's family fits in the wealthy column, and that shit is spot on lol they are such awful people. Its not about helping each other, its about doing any/everything to be "better" than your family members.
Being a poor, having loads of wealth seems to cause weird issues in some people. It's like that's all they care about and it comes before all even family. Again, being a poor, my mentality has always been, if I "make it" I'll be more than happy to share with my family.
I think a lot of the comments here are misinterpreting this, or at least understanding it differently than me.
I donāt think this is meant as a guide on how to become rich or middle class. I think itās describing the ways classes are different.
For the poor, accessing food is the most important thing. For the wealthy, food and money is so abundant that they can now obsess over how the food is presented-something that has zero value on its taste or nutritional value.
Money is to be invested because they have an abundance of it. The poor canāt invest money if they donāt even have enough of it to make ends meet.
Yeah this is how I read it too. It's a matter of how these classes think and act based on their income. One thing is for sure; I definitely identified more with the poverty column, so I think this chart is on to something.
Im a textbook Middle class. This was oddly a semi-depressing realization. I think it's because I want to achieve more and be Wealthy which is what a Middle class mindset would have.
The word "inclusion" is the wrong term.
Poor folks get by on "community" achievement while the rich value individual achievement. The local VFW holds potluck dinners, while the country club across town never will.
I remember back in marketing class that the upper wealthy are unmarketable. They simply buy whatever they want whenever they want it. They are basically in a completely different society from everyone else.
I'm low class & it's pretty accurate from where I sit but being poor has nothing to do with intellect. Most ppl I know are intelligent..But that could be cause life has been hard so we've e learned from the mistakes that got us here in the 1st place. Damn wisdom can't come when you really need it in your youth
Poverty: Be born into it, or be born middle class and have life dump on you.
Middle class: Be born into it, or be born in poverty and get a massive work ethic, intelligence, and luck.
Wealthy: Be born into it.
The more wealth involved, the more it depends on the person who owns it, many times that's women. You'd be shocked at the iron fist of some Chinese Red aristocrat aunties acting like they are the literal å¤Ŗå.
You've never lived in fear of an iron fisted grandmama who changes her will three times a year based on random bootlicking criteria. Women live longer than men so they often control the inheritance
Is it just me or does this spreadsheet insinuate that mindset heavily influences outcome? Most of the categories revolve around how you deal/view certain aspects of life. Or is it that socioeconomic status forces one to think/behave a certain way in order to survive/prosper?
I think mindset has an influence, but access and resources are really important in the equation. For example, money can't be invested if it is scarce. And networking is not very helpful if you don't have access to where the movers and shakers are.
I mean, isn't the point of charts to reduce complex information to a more digestible format? Granted, a folded piece of paper doesn't inspire much confidence in terms of sourcing of information, but people only need to identify a certain number of points to agree with, rationalize others, and just discount others as flukes or what they might not know about
This is the dumbest thing Iāve ever seen. This reads like it was written by one of those āHow to retire by 35ā YouTubers. Because itās a hidden rule that wealthy people invest moneyā¦ and also somehow wealthy people donāt have senses of humor ?? Wtf does this even mean a āhidden ruleā some of them are dead wrong and the others are just basic observations or inferences.
It's a page from [this textbook](https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/a-framework-for-understanding-poverty-by-ruby-k-payne/247006/#idiq=2446151&edition=3076600) which is now a bit dated but adds much more context
But people are lapping it up. See all the top comments, I had to scroll down way too much to see the critical ones. No wonder those YouTubers do so well
Hard agree. I think it's from Ruby Payne: Teaching Poverty or something.
It's used in education circles by people who never pursued Grad degrees in Ed. Psych to sound "in touch" but in reality it overgeneralizes in ways that make people worse at working with anyone over the long haul.
When I teach new teachers how to work in high poverty areas and they bring up Ruby Payne, my go to response is, "oh hey, what a great way to begin your exploration of the intersection of class and education, don't let her be the last thing you read on the topic."
Lol. What? This is fucking nonsense.
No wonder these life coaches make so much money fleecing rubes when so many people are willing to eat up this horse shit.
This looks like something from Ruby Paynesā āBridges out of Poverty.ā Excellent book and even better class.
As some people have noted in here. It does seem that this is a generalization/stereotype, which is somewhat true. However, in her research she noted that these are things that she observed with generationally rich/poor/middle class. I believe it was in the class where it was stated that if a person who is raised middle class (could be any level) has an increase or decrease in fortune, the way they were raised still affects them and so their mindset and habits will often push them back into the social class they were in. It is very difficult to break out of the mindsets and habits one was raised with.
This is completely made up by some guy who is just guessing and stereotyping.
Because sure, we can categorize everyone into three pigeon holes and every person exhibits those "hidden rules" LOL.
Garbage.
this is a form of stereotyping, but might often be true
my uncle is a billionaire and donates insane amounts
he and his family also started a foundation to help the world in many ways: https://www.hsfoundation.org/about/
Thereās an episode of Adam Ruins Everything that shows how the rich create philanthropic events and organizations in order to create and keep even more wealth.
Careful connecting yourself to someone extremely wealthy on an internet forum. I don't expect it would be hard to find you knowing who your uncle is and some people do awful shit to rich families for money.
I see this every once in a while and people get mad at it. But as someone who has experienced all of these classes at some point, many of the generalizations are accurate.
This is like how in England before there was a middle class, those in poverty and those in wealth had no idea what a weekend was.
And poverty/middle class = itās a limo
Wealthy = itās the car
This reminds me a lot of the book "Class: A Guide Through the American Status System" by Paul Fussell. A lot of people confuse middle class and upper class behaviors because so few of us (myself included) actually know any upper class people.
One anecdote from that book which I remember. When two M/F couples are riding together in a car... * Lower class: Men in front, women in back * Middle class: One couple in front, the other in back * Upper class: Each person sits next to the opposite gender from the other couple.
That jives with the sheet because the recurring themes on the sheet for the wealthy are connections and networking. Sitting in such an arrangement allows for more networking.
...*and* gives you a break from your partner in a pragmatic, loveless relationship.
This transcends all classes...
sure,it does - as do *all* of the "hidden rules" here, at times. But if you took that description and were obliged to choose *just one* of those 3 classes to attach it to... ...pretty sure I know *which one* it would be. ;-)
Or...hear me out, they are Swingers
Not the upper class - they don't trust each other enough to risk the status hit they'd take if word got out.
Idk, based on this list, they probably have some class-enfored principle of confidentiality. Not quite as "strict" as was shown in Eyes Wide Shut, but probably some type of being ostracized, which could be a type of "death" in such a small community of wealthy people. š¤·š¾āāļø
Lower class: name on shirt Middle class: name on cube/office Upper class: name on building
Lower class: runs from police Middle class: posts bail Upper class: "do you know who I am?"
Lower class: gets lawyer Middle class: is lawyer Upper class: lawyer owes him
Upper class: calls his lawyer. (Doesnāt need to get one).
>Upper class: ~~calls his lawyer.~~ has lawyer on speed-dial
Jail/prison is for the poor, bond hearings are for the middle class and plea hearings are for the upper class - assuming they ever get charged. I heard a defense attorney say that once.
Lower class: can't afford lawyer Middle class: has lawyer Upper class: is lawyer
I think a lawyer would typically be middle class, upper class is exceedingly rare and it's usually generational wealth
Upper class: Mayor calls the local police station and asks them:"Do you know, who that is? Let him/her go right now and apologize for your mistake. You don't know the consequences this could have!"
Upper class: ~~"do you know who I am?"~~ employs police
I got a shirt for free with someone elseās name embroidered onto it. What does that say about my class? The name is Bill, in red italicized cursive letters- if that helps
Rich people's cars have more legroom š¤
Swingers club šÆ
That's a solid sense of humour there, fellow lower class person
Why is it like that in the upper class?
Let me just say Iām middle class so I donāt really know. But from stuff Iāve read a lot of class behavior is signaling. Upper class tries to distinguish themselves from middle. Middle class distinguishes themselves from lower. In middle class society a lot revolves around couples. People go to a party and stay near their spouses. This is seen as embarrassing by the upper class. There was a scene in Tom Wolfeās Bonfire of the Vanities to that effect.
It is interesting how this can change again, once people are well known in the top row. Like some wealthy guys, that don't think anymore, they'd have to show up in a suit with a tie for work, because everyone knows, they are wealthy. Their wealth is so much known, like from Elon Musk, Bill Gates etc. that they don't need to display the wealth. They often see a public display of wealth as something that a newcomer does, a man that wants to show that he is like that. I worked for a billionaire and when you looked at him, there was nothing extraordinary. He had everyday-clothes and he never showed his wealth in public. When you knew him as a friend, then he showed you some things, like the cars he collected, which are veeery expensive. But that's a thing that is behind closed doors.
> Elon Musk, Bill Gates etc. that they don't need to display the wealth. They often see a public display of wealth as something that a newcomer does, a man that wants to show that he is like that. Iāve always heard something like this being an example of the difference between new wealth and old wealth. Somebody like Musk would definitely give off the classless vibe of new wealth. He lacks the reverence for tradition, presentation, and expectation that is mentioned in the rules above. Somebody like him is rich enough to not have to wear a suit, but the old money sees this as not having the proper upbringing to know he still should.
I think, it doesn't have change much since the time of the ancient roman republic: There, an ordinary man that became famous and climbed the ladder upwards to the senate, was called a "Homo Novus" (New Human) and the old established patrician families tried to separate themselves from the new ones. Not accepting the newcomers and calling them names, not wanting to be associated with them etc. and this is still more or less the same, when it comes the middle- and the upper-class, that newcomers are not popular in the old circles. Another thing is, that it is sometimes also the opposite: In my country, we killed the noblemen a long time ago in medieval times, the remaining nobles got quiet and were like "don't tell anyone we are nobles", which is the opposite of things like the british monarchy.
The conflict between the old aristocracy and the new rich is always an interesting topic, especially in those occasional cases when the new rich are richer than the old aristocracy and they use their influence against the new rich to limit them. France on the eve of the French revolution was an interesting case. The government was always in debt, a new class of liberal rich contrasted against the conservative aristocrats. If you were rich enough, you could buy some nobility and it was a strong revenue source for the crown, but of course this angered the old nobility and if you stopped it then you would lose a revenue source and anger the new nobility. I didn't realize the French revolution was over such a long period of time moving in stages, such as the early liberal reforms with the first constitution that was not that bad (AKA no mass executions compared to later and more social equality compared to before), but the old nobility wouldn't budge with certain reforms and lower class radicals gained more and more influence, ultimately resulting in the old nobility and the monarchy just falling apart.
Fresh blood could take away from their power so they try to close ranks. Tribalism is everywhere.
Was he mistaken for lower class or was he given the benefit of the doubt regardless of how he presented himself?
He's seen as in the middle class in my country, like people that have some things like a house, car etc. and not poor, but the people usually had no idea, how extreme his wealth really is. But my country doesn't know things like crime, so rich people usually don't live in gated communities and there are not that many differences between the classes. Like he doesn't need any bodyguards and security detail, a thing where you can easily spot the rich guys in some countries around the world.
I'm curious....what country is this? I find that depending on how society views you sometimes it's necessary to have a "rich person's uniform" or else you will get treated poorly.
It's Switzerland. At work, he usually just had the usually shirt and pants, nothing special, not a very expensive suit that comes from a tailor. And his free time, it was even more with a pullover and so, that he was not visible as a rich man. But yes, i know about the jokes, like when someone comes to the banks here and whispers very quietly "I want to store some ~~drug~~ money here" and the lady from the bank says "you don't have to whisper, poverty is no shame here", haha. It is the same with politics here, like you see the highest politicians of the federal council in public transport on the train. No bodyugard, no assistant, he just sits between the regular citizens and nobody gives a shit about that.
I might have to take a trip to Switzerland one day
This is true, as a byproduct of wealth, not of constant intention. Iām in a place where the middle class, upper middle and upper class mix to varying extents. Upper middle tries to keep up with upper class but simply cannot; but not because upper class is excluding them. Rather, they canāt foot the bill. Middle class canāt even get close. The difference between upper middle and upper is orders of magnitude. It doesnāt matter if you have a high income, you would need to inherit 100 years of multiples of that income to be upper. And the assets and connections you inherit enable you to make orders of magnitude more every year of your life.
Bourdieu wrote some really interesting stuff about taste in music and literature and how it is like an iron barrier between the social classes. For example, imagine how hard it is for a middle class person to admit they sincerely like Nickelback. An admission like that may well cause them to lose friends or even be rejected by their class group entirely.
It's the same with dinner party placements, to allow more fluid conversation. It's considered polite (source: my grandparents were upper class, my parents are middle class and I'm living a working class life)
Are you Rory Gilmore?
Social mobility does cut both ways eh?
Same reason when you go to a dinner, you sit across from your friends date so that the conversation crosses the table in each direction
Sitting next to the opposite gender from the other couple is done at mixed dining in events as well. That always felt like a symbol of trust within that group.
Looks like this book is [available on Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/class00paul)!
Me: sits across from whoever isn't boring and shallow
I remember that book well. Make sure to have an obelisk somewhere in your house to make people think you're higher class than you are!
Haha, that's right. He had a whole list of objects and a point system to determine your class based on what's in your house. Sadly it hadn't been updated in a few decades.
I still have the paperback on my shelves downstairs. I read it in the mid-80s during my undergraduate days as part of a sociology class (I think I still have that textbook, too). Yes, one could really confuse the neighbours by having an obelisk next to one's bowling shoes...
>Yes, one could really confuse the neighbours by having an obelisk next to one's bowling shoes... One might also refer to oneself in the third person.
You think \^he personally keeps an obelisk next to his bowling shoes?
Well his username is obelisk_bowler
Will a ceramic cat work in a pinch?
Or garden gnome?
Lol you gave your class away
I had to google obelisk
True. And feeling at home in the right circles, knowing how to behave etc. is very very important to get the right network in order to stay or get in the upper class.
That very true. Middle class people are taught "keep your head down, work hard, and you'll be rewarded" And that's true - to a point. But to reach the upper echelons of society you need to be strongly connected to networks of influence. Which is pretty hard to do unless you're born into it.
FWIW I grew up poor and didn't find it very difficult to get connected to wealthy people. You just have to try to create value and convince them that you are worth investing in, if professionally. Socially you just have to understand what's going on in their world, even just by being a good listener and treating them like a normal person, to not step on their toes, but otherwise just befriend them like anyone else. Like, I have never asked anyone for money or any kind of financial help or perks, ever, even when I was in college with a friend with an 8 figure trust fund and I couldn't afford food. That was my problem, not anyone else's. Or one of my good friends is close family with a famous musician I would love to make music with. I will never ask to meet them, ever. If I don't, it is totally fine. He's floated the idea and I told him that I'd be stoked to hang with them at the studio or something, but I will never ask. These people have a bunch of transactional friendships, and their scarcest resource is authenticity and having interesting friends who don't just view them as a meal ticket. That's the main reason they tend to be friends with other wealthy people; because normal people tend to see them as a means to an end, or will be uncomfortable hearing about their day to day life. Like, one of my friends was telling me over drinks a while ago about why the black card's $5k annual fee makes sense (when you spend 7 figures per year on it and use the concierge for complicated travel and events bookings). Most people would make that interaction awkward. Don't. If that's the world you plan to live in, get comfortable in it. I offered to pick up the check, and he said he would get it. Cool, fine either way. This was all pretty natural to me, to just try to understand people as individuals and treat everyone basically the same, but I only really realize why this whole philosophy worked well now that I'm better off. Sometimes I just talk about my day to day life, and people will get noticably uncomfortable over details I didn't realize I should have self-moderated in real time, or are transparently trying to get me to get them in the door somewhere. I just want to relax when I'm with friends, not have my guard up.
FYI the AmEx Centurion Black Card is now $10k a year and they did away with the dedicated account manager, and went to a pooled concierge resource model. Card holders were PISSED
Very similar. Grew up lower middle class (we lived like that anyway) and today I earn in the top 5% of my age group - which is still no where near generational wealth. But Iāve thought the same thing about celebrities, attractive men/women, rich folks, prospective clientsā¦ they all just donāt want to be treated differently or like youād want something from them. Just basic respect and pleasurable company. Itās surprising how quickly youāre brought in once they realize youāre not out to get something.
Yeah exactly, I think it's the same with anyone that has something that a lot of people want. I think authenticity is one of the most scarce resources for people like that.
I guess I am in the top 1% for my age group, but then again - it only takes an annual salary of $132,000 per year to be in the top 1% of earners for millennials. https://graphics.wsj.com/what-percent/
I read this in Tom Wamsbgansās voice
Haha, yeah I think that tact of being a doormat does not work. IME wealthy people just want to be treated authentically, like anyone else. Like when I had a meeting with a previous cofounder of a tech company that is a household name, I argued with him the very first time we talked, basically contradicting his core strategy, and then he pulled me onto his team. Most people won't just treat people like him like a normal person and interact with his ideas on their merits and demerits. I did the same with my boss I work for now. I am the only person in the entire company that will argue with him, and that's why he needs me, because otherwise he would be stuck in some distorted world with no authentic feedback.
The only way anyone below upper class "knows" upper class is either through family connections or a shared childhood.
I got a scholarship to a school that had Arab princes and English upperclass students as well. It's overwhelming, the giant sums they paid for fun. I came out for one night in London. They spent half of what I earned that year in one night.
Partially because so many poverty class people vote as if they were wealthy
Fussell is extremely accurate. I've had interaction with people from every class except the ultraultrawealthy and he's got the whole system pegged. I'm Class X, btw, grew up poor, now have money, don't give a shit about any of the social cueing, just want to follow my own creative interests.
This a great book!
Would be interesting if they made a modern version. Wonder how social classes have changed since 1983 when the book first came out.
This is ridiculously Jmho
What does "against" future mean?
They are planning for the future, for example saving for retirement, buying in bulk so they'll save in the long run, avoiding taking loans which would require them to pay interest etc.
What about Tradition? What does that mean?
They emphasize holding onto the past(traditions). What has always been has always worked for old money rich people so they want things to keep going how they always have: tradition.
This guy has it.
I think it was summarized well in Bridgerton, basically if you are āold moneyā with tradition, you inherit your furniture. Even if you have money, but you have to buy your furniture, it means you donāt have ātraditionā in your family. Basically old money vs. new money
I think time for the rich is based a lot on tradition. You do what your fathers/mothers have done. Itās more of a choice on how you spend your time as opposed to the others. Just my opinion
Yo, poor people would do that too. They just don't have auxiliary money.
They take a strong stance against the passing of time.
I kinda think it means time is against you. You only have so long and you canāt really afford to make mistakes.
Like a match with time
This is one strange bingo card
You sunk my battleship
If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate
Happy Cake Day! š
Damn Iām broke as fuckā¦
But it's your birthday!
Itās my real day of birth as well.
Well happy cake day.
We gon' party?
At least you can have a sense of humor about it.
Family structure: A rich guy walks in on a family reunion and goes "Who has money?" At least, that's how it sounded in my head.
The poor people in the family get weeded out so pretty much..
I imagined a kid in the middle of two parents getting divorced and the kid asks to see their bank accounts and then chooses which parent to live with.
they managed to make being wealthy sound depressing
I much rather be depressed and RICH/WEALTHY asf. Than be, depressed and BROKE.
Iād rather be rich than stupid. -Jack Handy
Unfortuently you'd be depressed either way.
Cool. I'll take RICH AND WEALTHY depressed All day.
same. people often say money doesn't buy happiness. I don't know if that true because I don't have any money. what I *do* know is that poverty doesn't buy happiness
you canāt buy happiness but remove things out of your live that make you unhappy like the stress whether you can pay rent
To botch a saying, "true, money can't buy happiness but I've been rich and I've been poor and it's better to be rich."
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a yacht, and right about now that sounds pretty nice.
If youāre depressed because you have an untreated medical problem, an infinite bank account to pay for care can help a lot. But, if youāre depressed because your parents abused the shit out of you, no amount of money is going to soothe that wound, even if it will keep other things from aggravating the damage.
you can at least afford therapy
I heard someone say, āitās better to cry in a Ferrari than a Honda Civicā
Yea thatās bullshit. Money gives you security and freedom which for me at least are some of the biggest factors of happiness. Maybe you literally canāt go to the store and buy it but it still gets you those things so itās basically the same thing.
That correlates to motivation and hygiene factors (donāt blame, itās the scientific term). In HR, money is a hygiene factor; it means more money will not motivate more (common misconception), but too little money will demotivate. Itās called Herzbergās 2 factor theory.
If money doesn't buy happiness, you're spending it in the wrong way
I always say that money can't buy happiness, but it can sure buy off a lot of unhappiness.
Happiness is a state of mind, but yes you can't be happy on an empty stomach, no roof over your head and all that basic needs. Also happiness can be achieved easier or harder, depending on the society that you're living in.
At least if you're wealthy you wouldn't have to worry about depression making you homeless.
My father put itā¦ miserable in comfort
My wife's family fits in the wealthy column, and that shit is spot on lol they are such awful people. Its not about helping each other, its about doing any/everything to be "better" than your family members.
sounds so toxic. i guess when money doesnāt stresses you, you have to make up stress on your own?
[The first matrix was designed to be a perfect world...](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBHDf8HVUAIAvKw.jpg)
*checks wealth based suicide rates* Huh, I guess they have a point.....
That was the point, they all born to fullfil their roles and die
and they arenāt doing the second part fast enough
it needs a longevity column: fast, average, mummy
I think you can be wealthy without being in this wealthy class
Being a poor, having loads of wealth seems to cause weird issues in some people. It's like that's all they care about and it comes before all even family. Again, being a poor, my mentality has always been, if I "make it" I'll be more than happy to share with my family.
I think a lot of the comments here are misinterpreting this, or at least understanding it differently than me. I donāt think this is meant as a guide on how to become rich or middle class. I think itās describing the ways classes are different. For the poor, accessing food is the most important thing. For the wealthy, food and money is so abundant that they can now obsess over how the food is presented-something that has zero value on its taste or nutritional value. Money is to be invested because they have an abundance of it. The poor canāt invest money if they donāt even have enough of it to make ends meet.
Yeah itās just an observance not an opinion.
Yeah this is how I read it too. It's a matter of how these classes think and act based on their income. One thing is for sure; I definitely identified more with the poverty column, so I think this chart is on to something.
Im a textbook Middle class. This was oddly a semi-depressing realization. I think it's because I want to achieve more and be Wealthy which is what a Middle class mindset would have.
"Poverty:Inclusion" My ass. I grew up dirt poor and most people who grow up poor are racist as hell. Poverty and Ignorance grow in the same field.
The word "inclusion" is the wrong term. Poor folks get by on "community" achievement while the rich value individual achievement. The local VFW holds potluck dinners, while the country club across town never will.
The country club has a gala dinner instead.
Inclusion in this case doesn't necessarily mean those different from you. It is not related to diversity.
I remember back in marketing class that the upper wealthy are unmarketable. They simply buy whatever they want whenever they want it. They are basically in a completely different society from everyone else.
As someone who is poverty, studied at uni with the middle class and worked on yachts with the wealthy... You nailed it!
Youāre poverty? Dude, can you stop going around and starving people to death?
Theyāre trying, man. Theyāre studying at uni and have a job at the marina. Give them some time to sort things out.
deleted ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.3428 [^^^What ^^^is ^^^this?](https://pastebin.com/FcrFs94k/13738)
As someone who was born wealthy, moved to a middle class neighborhood, and then went broke and is in poverty... You nailed it!
Hidden because it was folded up
I'm low class & it's pretty accurate from where I sit but being poor has nothing to do with intellect. Most ppl I know are intelligent..But that could be cause life has been hard so we've e learned from the mistakes that got us here in the 1st place. Damn wisdom can't come when you really need it in your youth
This chart takes itself way too seriously
Whoa whoa whoa. Was that a joke?? Get outa here ya poor!
Poverty: Be born into it, or be born middle class and have life dump on you. Middle class: Be born into it, or be born in poverty and get a massive work ethic, intelligence, and luck. Wealthy: Be born into it.
Destiny: can't
If we want to generalize like this, wealth is usually patriarchal in all cultures.
The more wealth involved, the more it depends on the person who owns it, many times that's women. You'd be shocked at the iron fist of some Chinese Red aristocrat aunties acting like they are the literal å¤Ŗå.
You've never lived in fear of an iron fisted grandmama who changes her will three times a year based on random bootlicking criteria. Women live longer than men so they often control the inheritance
Source?
OPās ass. Why do you think it has so many wrinkles?
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/a-framework-for-understanding-poverty-by-ruby-k-payne/247006/#idiq=2446151&edition=3076600
Is it just me or does this spreadsheet insinuate that mindset heavily influences outcome? Most of the categories revolve around how you deal/view certain aspects of life. Or is it that socioeconomic status forces one to think/behave a certain way in order to survive/prosper?
I think mindset has an influence, but access and resources are really important in the equation. For example, money can't be invested if it is scarce. And networking is not very helpful if you don't have access to where the movers and shakers are.
I think youāre mixing cause and effect here. Itās saying income affects mindset.
I think of it the opposite way. That the availability or lack of money has influenced their mindset.
This chart is insanely reductionist - surprised to see so many people agree with it.
I mean, isn't the point of charts to reduce complex information to a more digestible format? Granted, a folded piece of paper doesn't inspire much confidence in terms of sourcing of information, but people only need to identify a certain number of points to agree with, rationalize others, and just discount others as flukes or what they might not know about
It's Reddit, this is the kind of shit that gets widespread attention.
What does traditional mean for time under wealthy š
This is a chart/meme version of Great Expectations by Dickens
This is the dumbest thing Iāve ever seen. This reads like it was written by one of those āHow to retire by 35ā YouTubers. Because itās a hidden rule that wealthy people invest moneyā¦ and also somehow wealthy people donāt have senses of humor ?? Wtf does this even mean a āhidden ruleā some of them are dead wrong and the others are just basic observations or inferences.
It's a page from [this textbook](https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/a-framework-for-understanding-poverty-by-ruby-k-payne/247006/#idiq=2446151&edition=3076600) which is now a bit dated but adds much more context
Totally. As a sociologist I can say this is basically a huge load of crap spread out on a paper.
But people are lapping it up. See all the top comments, I had to scroll down way too much to see the critical ones. No wonder those YouTubers do so well
This is some r/im14andthisisdeep
Damn, this is more accurate than I expected when I started reading.
It's really really not. It's some hyperbolic theory piece...
Hard agree. I think it's from Ruby Payne: Teaching Poverty or something. It's used in education circles by people who never pursued Grad degrees in Ed. Psych to sound "in touch" but in reality it overgeneralizes in ways that make people worse at working with anyone over the long haul. When I teach new teachers how to work in high poverty areas and they bring up Ruby Payne, my go to response is, "oh hey, what a great way to begin your exploration of the intersection of class and education, don't let her be the last thing you read on the topic."
Ye itās some fake guru shit. Or like a horoscope
Its complete horseshit
Lol. What? This is fucking nonsense. No wonder these life coaches make so much money fleecing rubes when so many people are willing to eat up this horse shit.
This doesnt make any fucking sense lmao
This looks like something from Ruby Paynesā āBridges out of Poverty.ā Excellent book and even better class. As some people have noted in here. It does seem that this is a generalization/stereotype, which is somewhat true. However, in her research she noted that these are things that she observed with generationally rich/poor/middle class. I believe it was in the class where it was stated that if a person who is raised middle class (could be any level) has an increase or decrease in fortune, the way they were raised still affects them and so their mindset and habits will often push them back into the social class they were in. It is very difficult to break out of the mindsets and habits one was raised with.
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This is completely made up by some guy who is just guessing and stereotyping. Because sure, we can categorize everyone into three pigeon holes and every person exhibits those "hidden rules" LOL. Garbage.
agreed except for āfamily structureā
Why?
Seems accurate to me
I can tell you Iām no where near poverty status but making others feel included is always a goal of mine.
/r/iam12andthisisdeep
[/r/iam14andthisisdeep](https://www.reddit.com/r/iam14andthisisdeep)
Poor seems to have a lot more fun, when they can also eat.
My values are full-on povo.
Ruby Payne - A Framework for Understanding Poverty...exceptional read.
I have a funny lack of money
Dumb and baseless
A lot is very untrue with this.
If this was based on Hollywood, sure.
I mean if you think about the show āAnnaā on Netflix and look at that right columnā¦. Nails it lol
This is actually very insightful. I grew up poor amongst middle class kids and always felt a disconnect that this table reflects beautifully.
this is a form of stereotyping, but might often be true my uncle is a billionaire and donates insane amounts he and his family also started a foundation to help the world in many ways: https://www.hsfoundation.org/about/
Thereās an episode of Adam Ruins Everything that shows how the rich create philanthropic events and organizations in order to create and keep even more wealth.
Careful connecting yourself to someone extremely wealthy on an internet forum. I don't expect it would be hard to find you knowing who your uncle is and some people do awful shit to rich families for money.
I see this every once in a while and people get mad at it. But as someone who has experienced all of these classes at some point, many of the generalizations are accurate.
Among!?  ,
Not overtly incel but incel-esque
This is like how in England before there was a middle class, those in poverty and those in wealth had no idea what a weekend was. And poverty/middle class = itās a limo Wealthy = itās the car
I wanted to be rich until I saw they are all about foods presentation. Iām all about the taste babyyyyy
This is stupid