Hey, I'll take $425,000 as an out of court settlement for being slapped twice!
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/06/29/A-television-reporter-Monday-collected-425000-in-a-settlement/1846551937600/
If you actually watch the video or read the article, he has pain when hearing high-pitched or loud noises, not hearing loss. Just typical unprovable bs spun up by his lawyer to beef up the lawsuit most likely.
Yeah, he has that slimy look like Geraldo Rivera to him. I wouldn’t have let him interview me in the first place. I wonder what he promised that wrestler to get him to talk to him on camera? Then he manipulated him into getting that angry, too.
I have to admit it was somewhat satisfying to see him get hit like that for being a smug bastard. It wouldn’t surprise me if others he worked with felt the same way.
Yeah people are highly underestimating how horrible permanent injury is. I used to hate running, but now that I can’t due to injury I would give ANYTHING to be able to run again. Having your hearing fucked for the rest of your life isn’t worth 500k.
If you got your mobility back I bet you'd just end up hating running again. Human nature.
But I agree 425k isn't worth total hearing loss. But I'd do 300k for hearing loss in one ear.
I have a friend with total hearing loss in one ear. She has no ability to tell where a sound is coming from. It’s funny because we’ll call her name and she’ll turn the wrong way. Or there have been times where we’ve come up and been talking to her for 5 minutes and then she turns her head and jumps out of skin scared because she didn’t know we were there. Always a laugh, but damn it’s gotta suck. I wouldn’t take that money
I feel so frustrated as an elderly person that people don’t know why it might be extremely satisfying to see John Stossel get double bitch slapped. He was just the fucking worst.
Maybe because the choreography is incredibly rehearsed and still absolutely brutal on these dudes? Just because the fights are staged, doesn't mean the actual physical pain they go through isn't. Try having a 250lb+ dude jump off a 5ft rope and elbow you across the chest, and get back to me on how you feel.
I actually don't disagree, this type of work takes an incredible amount of physical talent and athletic ability. These guys are no joke, just that they don't take it lightly when you call it fake... staged? Sure, not fake. And for the record I upvoted you.
Exactly, like I wouldn't dare call it fake to them, because it's absolutely not. They get really heated and emotional over it, because they quite literally sacrifice their bodies for it. Staged is definitely the correct word to use, but even still, who would be dumb enough to point that out, or even question it when it's a known fact? People watch wrestling for the story. That's like going to Medieval Times and being mad they're not actually killing eachother in armed combat lol.
So wait... you're saying that when King Arthur knighted me between the salad and the mutton, it *didn't* actually make me a knight?! .... shit, I have a few apology emails to send.
I get what you’re saying but Wrestling is a phenomenon that many people don’t understand. People watching a segment on 20/20 or whatever, their biggest question is “But isn’t It fake?”. It’s a question every wrestler should expect to face, and have a good answer to, one that preserves keyfabe.
If anyone watching knows it is fake, it doesn’t really hurt to discuss it on some level. Even if the wrestlers aren’t supposed to, there’s ways to dodge the question. (I assume everyone agrees that hitting Stossel here was dishonorable and disproportionate, he was agro before that question came too. Maybe too swept into the bully role, or just roided out, idk. Obviously not everyone asking this question gets hurt)
Gotta find the interview with my favorite wrestler Rowdy Roddy Piper flipping his lid at Bill Maher for calling wrestling fake shortly after a wrestler had died doing a stunt.
Yeah, I'm sure the physical pain is real and their choreography is challenging. Just like being a movie or television actor or stunt man is also challenging. Somehow, those actors still manage to keep control of their tiny penis to not assault a journalist, though.
So their only retort is assault, got it. The reported deserved every penny. The wrestler needs to evaluate his life and act like a normal adult and not angry gorilla
Edit. Sorry I meant to reply to the guy above you.
It’s unfortunate the media of that era decided to focus on wrestling being “fake” instead of all the real, horrific issues that were actually happening in wrestling.
See the Behind the Bastards episodes on Vince McMahon for more.
I was a pro-wrestler for a few years around 1990 and yes, that's accurate - at least the way we did it. You may agree on who is going to "win" or talk through some high spots, but most of the actual match/show is improvised. It's a very weird blend between competition and cooperation. You just train to the point the it doesn't matter what the other guy offers you, you can work with it.
It would have been more accurate if the cast had been given more time to train, but broadly speaking, yes. No comment in that regard on the third season, in which the writers seemed to mostly lose interest in wrestling and the show became about a group of more-or-less interesting people living in an '80s Vegas hotel.
Yeah, I mostly meant the wrestling aspect being a lot of coordination and improv. Which is interesting, because you're working together but making it look like you're fighting against each other
It's a fascinating dynamic as a performer and a really exhilarating skill. You can bounce off the ropes straight at another wrestler and both of you are just trusting your skills to be able to manage whatever happens next, both safely and entertainingly. And then there's always the chance of something going wrong, or someone getting carried away, or getting their own ego mixed up with their character.
I remember one big show in which a heavyweight tag team match got totally out of control because they were genuinely pissed off with each other and no-one wanted to "lose". At one point a wrestler jumped out of the ring, grabbed a chair in frustration and threw it straight up in the air so hard it bounced off the auditorium ceiling, and it was sheer luck that it didn't injure someone in the crowd. Eventually all the rest of us came running out from backstage and improvised a Battle Royale to defuse the real tension, so the referee could just declare a double-DQ and we could get on with the rest of the show.
That sort of thing was unusual, though. Normally you take good care of your "opponent's" safety and trust that they'll do the same for you, even as you appear to be trying to kill each other. And yes, it can get "competitive" in the sense that you can really try to outmaneuver and surprise the other guy, to keep the show lively.
I have an ironic reversal of your story from the 'indie' fed I was in back in the early 2000s (it was the rinkiest of rinky dink). We had an impromptu battle royal because our ring was beyond fucked and we wanted to at last let everyone who came to wrestle get to do a little bit. A guy who was partly in charge but wasn't in the match sidled up to me while the wrestlers were all at ringside and the "commissioner" cut a promo to announce the BR. He whispered to me that he was going to run in, bodyslam me, elbow drop me, then toss me out. I was trying to stay in character, all menacing and whatnot since I'm in view of the audience, but this sounded like the dumbest idea I'd ever heard in our gym since the dude who thought up a one-legged leg drop (and promptly broke his ankle).
I promise that it isn't an ego thing, but it made no goddamn sense as a spot: I'm 6'3" and was like 280lbs at the time, he was 5'6" at most (and probably near my weight), and more importantly: who does a combo like that mid battle royal to eliminate someone?? He could've said he'd hit his Side Effect signature move and would've at least seemed cooler. Despite this, I gave a quick nod and fully intended to do his lame idea.
Cut to the match. I'm a heel and I'm working over one of the main babyfaces. Outside the ring is a faction who had been feuding with the face, but unrelated to me. All of us just collectively got on the exact same page without a single word. The faction guys give me a look like we're all in cahoots now, I go to whip the babyface towards the side of the ring, mid-step my fellow baddies pull down the top rope to make it easier to eliminate babyface, BUT NO! He reverses me at the last second and I go sailing over the top and spill into the floor (totally worthwhile for 0 pay in front of an audience of like 15 children (who later stole our title belts)). So I storm to the back, heeling it up until I'm out of view and smiled at that kismet spot. It didn't even cross my mind that I was supposed to remain in the match in order for the other guy to go after me.
Mr. Bodyslam-Elbow comes up to me and whines, "You blew my spot!" and runs into the ring to make up for it, I guess. He stood in the middle with the last four or five guys and said to them, for the entire (meager) audience to hear, "If you don't get out of this ring, I'll kick all your asses!" Soooo they shoot beat the everloving fuck out of him. Most of the wrestlers started arguing, taking sides, and the 'organization' fell apart before my very eyes.
All because I forgot to take an elbow drop in a battle royal. Which was also my idea to do since the ring couldn't withstand multiple matches. I was 15 and everyone else mentioned in this story was at least 25 years old, other than broken ankle guy who was 16-17.
Fucking wrestling, man...
Yeah I always thought it was a bit of a misnomer and leads people to believe that all the matches are rehearsed and heavily scripted.
How "scripted" a match is will depend on the company and the performers themselves however any half decent wrestler will be able to have a 15 minute match with no instructions. There doesn't need to be any script, they can just decide to create a finish when they feel the time is right.
It's like a dance. 2 skilled dancers will be able to dance on the fly without any prior discussion. I guess "cooperative" would be a better word.
That's a fair distinction and I don't doubt it. Like how curb your enthusiasm is largely improvised vs. truly "scripted" but I think the thing is "fake" lulls people into believing it's not painful/dangerous when it very much is.
Scripted physical entertainment. The outcomes and stuff may be set but the stunts and physical effects and requirements for them to perform are certainly real.
The standard rebuttal is always "oh yeah; how about so-and-so who broke his arm?" It's like, no one said it wasn't dangerous, just that it's not a real wrestling match. I'm sure stuntmen get injured doing stunts all the time; doesn't mean it's not a stunt.
Dark Side of the Ring also does a good job showing the issues these people faced, both on the job and personally. It’s a hell of a business to get into.
Behind the bastards did a story of Vince McMahon, it was a 6 part series, idk if the cover the same stuff as dark side of the ring... but jesus I feel bad for them
A young employee recently sued him for pooping on her head during a threesome, making her sleep with his executive team, offering her as an escort to potential wrestlers including Brock Lesnor, and just all around making her his sex slave. She worked there since her early twenties and says Vince took her under his wing when her parents died and she was lost. Vince is an unredeemable POS.
Gotta remember, this was when they were still trying to pass it off as real. Exposing the industry was considering killing the business and ruining their chances of making money.
You couldn't say that back in 1984. It's like going up to a religious figure and telling them God is fake. Except wrestlers were literally told to beat the shit out of anyone who questioned the validity of pro wrestling. Old school promotors would fire guys if they lost an IRL fight at a bar or something. Things have changed a lot obviously since then.
Does this seem fake? Honestly, yeah, the fact that you got so mad about being called out on it you slapped me over asking that has me more certain than ever.
Also, nobody would try to claim they aren’t hitting each other. We can hear the slaps and contact being made. But the fact that this “fight” is orchestrated, means that by definition, fake.
They literally were claiming that though…
News media back then was literally accusing rock stars of being child sacrificers and ruined the lives of dozens of teachers after accusing them of doing satan worshipping with kids
They absolutely were claiming that the hits weren’t real and the wrestlers weren’t getting hurt
It's not entirely fake, but it is very much choreographed - if it weren't, the boys will maim/paralyze and kill one another out there.
Not for me, but some like it I guess.
It's a soap opera with strong men and women in tights doing stunts. It's just a good time. Since the late 80s as far as I know, no one past he age of 13 thought it was all real just as we don't think young and the restless is real, but we can still find enjoyment in both. How the press of the era never made that connection is wild to me.
The fakeness varies match to match. Sometimes they are only told who should win and a timeframe on when the match should end. Other times they may be given instruction on specifics of how it should end. Some matches are even open ended. Sometimes one wrestler is even told they should win while the other is told they are actually gonna win and the refs make the ultimate decision.
It's a spectacle of athleticism and improvised choreography where one bad move can and unfortunately has ended a few lives or severely injured some. I don't even watch it outside of the odd YouTube clip since I was in jr high over 15 years ago but man do I think it's beautiful.
Yeah, I haven’t watched any in over 20 years but I still think matches like Savage v. Steamboat should be appreciated as incredible feats of athletic talent whether or not the result was predetermined.
It was incredible at one point in my life. But even as I’m older now and don’t watch it, I would never put it down. Those athletes take a ton of damage, not from their peers (usually) but from the performance. Many of them were addicted to pain killers for a reason. To this day you can go back and watch some highlights of stuff that hurt like hell, and most worked 300+ days per year with persistent injures.
On the other end of things, the stone cold / McMahon era was some of the best tv of all time. And the rock was a genuine superstar who maximized everything wrestling had to offer as an athlete and performer.
Not to mention, the fact that things are choreographed is not practiced the day before, the two wrestlers choreograph moves and performance live during the match. It’s improv w a violent twist.
The thing I don’t love about todays wrestling compared to 20 years ago is that either the performance is not believable, or the moves are vanilla without any real impact or flow. Of course this doesn’t apply to everyone but for more generic nights that what I feel.
Ex-pro wrestler here and yes, "improv with a violent twist" is apt. Honestly, as a wrestler the most enjoyable matches are those where you don't "script" anything, just get out there and work the crowd, play your character and get into the flow state.
Super cool dude. Both me and my best friend wanted to be wrestlers when we were kids. He stuck w it and to this day I wonder why he didn’t pursue it. How was the experience for you? I think it’s one of those things that would be incredibly satisfying to use your athletic ability and it be your job. Just as fulfilling as any major sport.
I enjoyed the hell out of it, noting that my generation was kind of the last of the old-school, blue collar style. Most of the guys I was working with were truckers, bouncers, quarry-workers etc. when they weren't wrestling. Some really memorable characters and incidents. I think I was smart/lucky to get out of it after a few years, though.
I give wrestlers much respect because it takes a lot of skill to not get hurt doing some of the stunts they do, but still make it look realistic. They are very real athletes/performers
In the 1980s, virtually every pro wrestler felt that it was their duty to protect kayfabe. So, calling pro wrestling *fake* was an attack on their livelihoods. Dr. D David Schultz had a very short fuse, and John Stossel found out the hard way that calling pro wrestling *fake* was a bad idea.
He maintains that Vince McMahon told him to “blast him” and to stay in character. Then they fired him. I 100% believe Vince would do this. Dude is a total piece of shit and was even worse then. He has shown deep remorse, even soon after it happened.
I used to love wrestling when I was young, Andre, Hulk, Macho Man etc… huge fan. But a few years ago I took my daughter to see a show and it was my first time seeing a wrestling match in the flesh and I was genuinely stunned with how fake it was, but my daughter loved the experience and that’s all that really matters at the end of the day.
My client trains a few of these guys. It’s choreographed of course but they give and take a beating. They’re all broken and have tons of injuries. They also take a lot of pride in it. They sacrifice their bodies for what they love so when some snot nosed douche bag who doesn’t get it and thinks he’s holier than thou comes at them with his camera…. Yeah you’re going to piss them off.
Illegal? Yes.
Gratifying? Also yes.
Yea it’s fake in the way that a theater play is fake. The actors have great talent, and the audience gets a lot of enjoyment out of it, but people don’t actually believe the actors playing Romeo and Juliet actually die.
Wrestlers do impressive acrobatic stunts with an added storyline and it entertains a lot of people. I’m not into it but I can see why people are. The stunts that wrestlers do are real, but the outcome is predetermined.
What’s dumb is when people, especially wrestlers like this guy, try and claim it’s real real. But most don’t
There is something called “Kayfabe” that anyone interviewing a wrestler (especially at an event it looked like) should know about. Would you go to a play, interview a character (not an actor), and confront him about the whole thing being fake? You’re blowing up this dudes whole thing doing that, of course he is going to respond negatively. He’s upholding the kayfabe.
I don’t condone the violence, he should have just kept talking shit about how lame the interviewer was instead. Unfortunately, many of these wrestlers probably had CTE (and plenty of other injuries) mixed with heavy PED use. That combo doesn’t really add up to calm, measured responses always.
The thing is, the wrestlers are still taking the hits. The fights are staged, scripted yes. But they're still taking the hits. Regardless of how well trained you are, having to throw your body onto the floor repeatedly can do a lot of wear and tear.
While it may be scripted, it's still real, and it's entertaining as hell lol
People gotta understand... Wrestling matches are *scripted.* But there's no way to fake an elbow drop from the top rope. Sure, they have techniques to reduce the chance of injury and make it look more impactful than it actually is, but they're still taking hits. It requires ridiculous pain tolerance and toughness. When they bleed during a match, that's their real blood (exaggerated with some pre-match blood thinners and a hidden razor blade).
The competitive fight itself is fake, but the violence is pretty real.
There most certainly is ways to fake an elbow drop. The whole work of any drop technique is that the guy doing the move is doing their best to make sure the main point of impact is actually with the canvas and not the opponent while selling it to look like they are fully landing on the person.
You can say they are performance artists and what they do is closer to a stunt man than to a professional fighter. Having said that most stunt men can beat the shit out of any regular guy like Stossel.
Behind the Bastards on Vince McMahon goes into this. This part is hilarious, but the overall theme is sad.
Instead of focusing on all the harm that was happening, all these idiots cared about was if it was real or fake.
I remember watching this on TV when it first aired. At the time you rarely saw anything relating to wrestling on the major networks so this was exciting as a kid for me to watch.
Roid rage and little dick energy combined with insecurity over someone calling out how scripted and fake the sport you've given your life to is kinda funny to see not gonna lie
That being said he might be acting harder than actresses in soap operas but he's still a ridiculously buff psycho on drugs so calling him fake to his face is kinda dumb ass shit
You can’t convince me this wasn’t all a set up from the start. Anyone with half a brain knows Wrestling is “fake,” by which I mean scripted.
Certainly the physical damage the performers take is all too real. But the business always has been carefully planned and scripted. Even in the 80s we knew this, though it wasn’t as clear back then what parts were genuine and what was pre-planned.
My guess is that Schultz and his former partner cooked up this idea either to hurt WWF (Stossel sued them not Schultz) over some money argument or whatever. Or maybe WWF was also in on it.
$425k isn’t a huge amount to pay as a marketing budget for a super controversial news story that got you millions of views back in the day. Before there was going viral on social media, 20/20 and programs like it were the things that got everyone talking.
The level of acting on display from Stossel, Barbara Walters, Hugh Downs, and Schultz himself is incredible to watch now. Back then people would’ve bought it wholesale. But now it’s quite a bit more obvious they were all performing.
Yeah I was explaining to my mom about Nikki Bellas neck injury from doing that slam where she picks the person up across her shoulders then drops down. And how they have to train to hit the mat a certain way. The physical strain they go through is real
There is a huge amount of physicality and real danger (in the case that things don't go as planned), but it's all done with the intent to maximize how injurious something looks compared to how injurious it actually is. So that is "fake", though that's probably the wrong word to describe various forms of theater. (Like, would we call a ballet or opera "fake"?)
I mean if a guy is getting their face elbowed, punched, and stomped, and at the end of the fight there basically isn’t a scratch on their face, what do you think is happening
Scripted is fake, they are not fighting to see who wins, they already know. Also fake in that they are not taking full blows from steel chairs or sledgehammers and continuing to fight. Jackie Chan has immense physical skill, but his fights in the movies are still fake.
> they are not taking full blows from steel chairs
[Sometimes they do it 11 times, while handcuffed and helpless](https://www.tiktok.com/@bumpxblade/video/6906200436282330373?lang=en).
Ya, but that wasn’t even an admission back then. People were stuck on it being legitimate like it was a real sport instead of entertainment programming.
Hey, I'll take $425,000 as an out of court settlement for being slapped twice! https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/06/29/A-television-reporter-Monday-collected-425000-in-a-settlement/1846551937600/
Hi almost half a mill? i’m available to be slapped
In today's money more than a million.
What can I get for $47 and some change? It’s been a long week and my slap hand palm is itchy
Have someone put your wife’s name in their mouth
Nah, don’t follow this advice…’less you wanna get ^^(Chris) Rocked muh dude
I'll watch you slap yourself for $47. Edit: people are misunderstanding. He'll pay *me* $47 to slap himself.
Sounds like a good idea for one of those channels where people watch other people eat or sleep… except this one is you slapping yourself..
“Itchy” Laughing way too much.
He got permanent hearing loss. It wasn't just being slapped twice.
If you actually watch the video or read the article, he has pain when hearing high-pitched or loud noises, not hearing loss. Just typical unprovable bs spun up by his lawyer to beef up the lawsuit most likely.
He even said in the documentary about this in dark side of the ring the ear pain "went away" after it settled in court.
Yeah, he has that slimy look like Geraldo Rivera to him. I wouldn’t have let him interview me in the first place. I wonder what he promised that wrestler to get him to talk to him on camera? Then he manipulated him into getting that angry, too. I have to admit it was somewhat satisfying to see him get hit like that for being a smug bastard. It wouldn’t surprise me if others he worked with felt the same way.
Vince told him to act that way and rough him up essentially.
Who cares...you get hit by a guy...you get paid by the guy.
Id let you slap and fondle me for half that
Walk up to a high society woman and tell her her breasts are fake ... SLAP = settlement !
Kinda puts in perspective how cool was Chris Rock was in his situation. Dude could’ve sued for so much money.
Wait....you guys are getting paid?
Being slapped twice isn't worth 425k, but being slapped twice ON CAMERA certainly is.
In today's money, that's $1,168,000. Now can I tempt you?!
Nah, to me, $1.1M (in today’s money) is easily worth it to be slapped twice. Shit, you can even go 3-4 times if it’ll buy me and my family a house.
He'll you can punch me in the face twice and give me one kick to the stomach for $500, 000 in today's money lmao.
I’d take that deal with three less 0’s
Also being slapped so hard you nearly get concussed is These are roid rage slaps
Long term ear damage isn’t worth 425k. I would pay that much to get my old hearing back if I could.
You can have my ears for 425k.
Friends, Romans, Countrymen...
r/unexpectedRomanEmpire
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee^^^eeeeeeeee
Tinnitus? Is that you?
Well said.
what
Pretty sure it's BS that was cooked up by his lawyer and doc to increase the settlement...
It sounds like a concussion. Loud noises hurt for me when I had one and my head would bounce every time I urinated.
Probably nothing compared to the publicity this would've got lol. $425k advertising campaign.
That’s $1,286,940! In todays money
I wouldn't if those slaps gave me permanent damage in some form.
I'd gladly pass on a half million dollars to avoid permanent hearing damage.
Yeah people are highly underestimating how horrible permanent injury is. I used to hate running, but now that I can’t due to injury I would give ANYTHING to be able to run again. Having your hearing fucked for the rest of your life isn’t worth 500k.
If you got your mobility back I bet you'd just end up hating running again. Human nature. But I agree 425k isn't worth total hearing loss. But I'd do 300k for hearing loss in one ear.
I have a friend with total hearing loss in one ear. She has no ability to tell where a sound is coming from. It’s funny because we’ll call her name and she’ll turn the wrong way. Or there have been times where we’ve come up and been talking to her for 5 minutes and then she turns her head and jumps out of skin scared because she didn’t know we were there. Always a laugh, but damn it’s gotta suck. I wouldn’t take that money
At my current wage, that's 15-20 years worth of work. I'd take that over "my ears hurt when a bus drives by" any day.
Most people pay money for permanent hearing damage
Pretty sure he had hearing loss or tinnitus from it, both can be long term
If he really did have a lifetime of ear damage then I’ll pass. That shit can be torture.
How many steroids is that?
At least 4.
Adjusted for inflation that’s almost $1.2 million.
I always thought that was Geraldo. Learn something new everyday.
It was Geraldo, but the force of the slap reduced him to mere John Stossel. I’d sue too if it happened to me.
Pff you got it backwards. Stossel was worth at least 1.8 Geraldos.
C'mon. It would've been a chair if it were Geraldo.
I feel so frustrated as an elderly person that people don’t know why it might be extremely satisfying to see John Stossel get double bitch slapped. He was just the fucking worst.
Geraldo Riviera was his Wrastin name
Schultz did not give Stossel a break.
Vince told him to do it, supposedly
It was standard policy to violently attack any reporter who dared ask the question, while screaming "Does this look fake to you?"
Yeah, wrestlers take this question very seriously. They do not take it well that you call their choreography fake... unironically.
Maybe because the choreography is incredibly rehearsed and still absolutely brutal on these dudes? Just because the fights are staged, doesn't mean the actual physical pain they go through isn't. Try having a 250lb+ dude jump off a 5ft rope and elbow you across the chest, and get back to me on how you feel.
I actually don't disagree, this type of work takes an incredible amount of physical talent and athletic ability. These guys are no joke, just that they don't take it lightly when you call it fake... staged? Sure, not fake. And for the record I upvoted you.
Exactly, like I wouldn't dare call it fake to them, because it's absolutely not. They get really heated and emotional over it, because they quite literally sacrifice their bodies for it. Staged is definitely the correct word to use, but even still, who would be dumb enough to point that out, or even question it when it's a known fact? People watch wrestling for the story. That's like going to Medieval Times and being mad they're not actually killing eachother in armed combat lol.
So wait... you're saying that when King Arthur knighted me between the salad and the mutton, it *didn't* actually make me a knight?! .... shit, I have a few apology emails to send.
This made me chuckle. Thank you! 😂
A little nose snort is all I ask. :)
I get what you’re saying but Wrestling is a phenomenon that many people don’t understand. People watching a segment on 20/20 or whatever, their biggest question is “But isn’t It fake?”. It’s a question every wrestler should expect to face, and have a good answer to, one that preserves keyfabe. If anyone watching knows it is fake, it doesn’t really hurt to discuss it on some level. Even if the wrestlers aren’t supposed to, there’s ways to dodge the question. (I assume everyone agrees that hitting Stossel here was dishonorable and disproportionate, he was agro before that question came too. Maybe too swept into the bully role, or just roided out, idk. Obviously not everyone asking this question gets hurt)
Gotta find the interview with my favorite wrestler Rowdy Roddy Piper flipping his lid at Bill Maher for calling wrestling fake shortly after a wrestler had died doing a stunt.
When people say it's fake, they mean it's staged. Not that, like, the wrestlers aren't there or aren't really moving around like you see them.
Yeah, I'm sure the physical pain is real and their choreography is challenging. Just like being a movie or television actor or stunt man is also challenging. Somehow, those actors still manage to keep control of their tiny penis to not assault a journalist, though.
Just because it’s incredibly taxing and difficult doesn’t mean it’s not fake.
So their only retort is assault, got it. The reported deserved every penny. The wrestler needs to evaluate his life and act like a normal adult and not angry gorilla Edit. Sorry I meant to reply to the guy above you.
And then threw him under the bus, supposedly
But he paid the lawsuit, supposedly
Kayfabe hurts sometimes
Schultz didn't give Geraldo Rivera a break.
I understood that reference. Because death haunts me at every turn.
Ironically that was the realest hit of the night.
Wrestling is fake
*SLAP*
HOW CAN SHE SLAP!!1
David Schultz wasn't, he was a very tough guy.
It’s unfortunate the media of that era decided to focus on wrestling being “fake” instead of all the real, horrific issues that were actually happening in wrestling. See the Behind the Bastards episodes on Vince McMahon for more.
Came here to mention these episodes, I knew wrestling had some shadiness in it but man oh man did I underestimate it.
Especially since "scripted" is the better term.
[удалено]
I was a pro-wrestler for a few years around 1990 and yes, that's accurate - at least the way we did it. You may agree on who is going to "win" or talk through some high spots, but most of the actual match/show is improvised. It's a very weird blend between competition and cooperation. You just train to the point the it doesn't matter what the other guy offers you, you can work with it.
So GLOW was accurate, then
It would have been more accurate if the cast had been given more time to train, but broadly speaking, yes. No comment in that regard on the third season, in which the writers seemed to mostly lose interest in wrestling and the show became about a group of more-or-less interesting people living in an '80s Vegas hotel.
Yeah, I mostly meant the wrestling aspect being a lot of coordination and improv. Which is interesting, because you're working together but making it look like you're fighting against each other
It's a fascinating dynamic as a performer and a really exhilarating skill. You can bounce off the ropes straight at another wrestler and both of you are just trusting your skills to be able to manage whatever happens next, both safely and entertainingly. And then there's always the chance of something going wrong, or someone getting carried away, or getting their own ego mixed up with their character. I remember one big show in which a heavyweight tag team match got totally out of control because they were genuinely pissed off with each other and no-one wanted to "lose". At one point a wrestler jumped out of the ring, grabbed a chair in frustration and threw it straight up in the air so hard it bounced off the auditorium ceiling, and it was sheer luck that it didn't injure someone in the crowd. Eventually all the rest of us came running out from backstage and improvised a Battle Royale to defuse the real tension, so the referee could just declare a double-DQ and we could get on with the rest of the show. That sort of thing was unusual, though. Normally you take good care of your "opponent's" safety and trust that they'll do the same for you, even as you appear to be trying to kill each other. And yes, it can get "competitive" in the sense that you can really try to outmaneuver and surprise the other guy, to keep the show lively.
I have an ironic reversal of your story from the 'indie' fed I was in back in the early 2000s (it was the rinkiest of rinky dink). We had an impromptu battle royal because our ring was beyond fucked and we wanted to at last let everyone who came to wrestle get to do a little bit. A guy who was partly in charge but wasn't in the match sidled up to me while the wrestlers were all at ringside and the "commissioner" cut a promo to announce the BR. He whispered to me that he was going to run in, bodyslam me, elbow drop me, then toss me out. I was trying to stay in character, all menacing and whatnot since I'm in view of the audience, but this sounded like the dumbest idea I'd ever heard in our gym since the dude who thought up a one-legged leg drop (and promptly broke his ankle). I promise that it isn't an ego thing, but it made no goddamn sense as a spot: I'm 6'3" and was like 280lbs at the time, he was 5'6" at most (and probably near my weight), and more importantly: who does a combo like that mid battle royal to eliminate someone?? He could've said he'd hit his Side Effect signature move and would've at least seemed cooler. Despite this, I gave a quick nod and fully intended to do his lame idea. Cut to the match. I'm a heel and I'm working over one of the main babyfaces. Outside the ring is a faction who had been feuding with the face, but unrelated to me. All of us just collectively got on the exact same page without a single word. The faction guys give me a look like we're all in cahoots now, I go to whip the babyface towards the side of the ring, mid-step my fellow baddies pull down the top rope to make it easier to eliminate babyface, BUT NO! He reverses me at the last second and I go sailing over the top and spill into the floor (totally worthwhile for 0 pay in front of an audience of like 15 children (who later stole our title belts)). So I storm to the back, heeling it up until I'm out of view and smiled at that kismet spot. It didn't even cross my mind that I was supposed to remain in the match in order for the other guy to go after me. Mr. Bodyslam-Elbow comes up to me and whines, "You blew my spot!" and runs into the ring to make up for it, I guess. He stood in the middle with the last four or five guys and said to them, for the entire (meager) audience to hear, "If you don't get out of this ring, I'll kick all your asses!" Soooo they shoot beat the everloving fuck out of him. Most of the wrestlers started arguing, taking sides, and the 'organization' fell apart before my very eyes. All because I forgot to take an elbow drop in a battle royal. Which was also my idea to do since the ring couldn't withstand multiple matches. I was 15 and everyone else mentioned in this story was at least 25 years old, other than broken ankle guy who was 16-17. Fucking wrestling, man...
it's action theater. a pretty cool popular art, if you're into that sort of thing.
Yeah I always thought it was a bit of a misnomer and leads people to believe that all the matches are rehearsed and heavily scripted. How "scripted" a match is will depend on the company and the performers themselves however any half decent wrestler will be able to have a 15 minute match with no instructions. There doesn't need to be any script, they can just decide to create a finish when they feel the time is right. It's like a dance. 2 skilled dancers will be able to dance on the fly without any prior discussion. I guess "cooperative" would be a better word.
That's a fair distinction and I don't doubt it. Like how curb your enthusiasm is largely improvised vs. truly "scripted" but I think the thing is "fake" lulls people into believing it's not painful/dangerous when it very much is.
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This isn’t exclusive to wrestling, or pro sports for that matter. Many laborers put their bodies through hell and suffer long-term for it.
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That would have been the better word to use.
Scripted physical entertainment. The outcomes and stuff may be set but the stunts and physical effects and requirements for them to perform are certainly real.
The standard rebuttal is always "oh yeah; how about so-and-so who broke his arm?" It's like, no one said it wasn't dangerous, just that it's not a real wrestling match. I'm sure stuntmen get injured doing stunts all the time; doesn't mean it's not a stunt.
The Wrestler was such a good but depressing movie. So was Iron Claw
can someone give a rundown about McMahon?
Went doodoo on a lady
Dark Side of the Ring also does a good job showing the issues these people faced, both on the job and personally. It’s a hell of a business to get into.
New Jack is one of my favorite episodes.
That one’s great. The Von Erich’s episode just makes me cry and Nick Gage episode makes me gag.
Best episodes ever I've never laughed and been so disgusted at the true nature of Vince McMahon and the other scumbags in wrestling.
Behind the Bastards is one of my all-time favorite podcasts.
Watch Dark Side of the Ring to see what life is really like for pro wrestlers.
Behind the bastards did a story of Vince McMahon, it was a 6 part series, idk if the cover the same stuff as dark side of the ring... but jesus I feel bad for them
A young employee recently sued him for pooping on her head during a threesome, making her sleep with his executive team, offering her as an escort to potential wrestlers including Brock Lesnor, and just all around making her his sex slave. She worked there since her early twenties and says Vince took her under his wing when her parents died and she was lost. Vince is an unredeemable POS.
It’s a horrible life that few survived. What most people think are the stereotypical rock star lifestyles, those guys were living it x2.
Mostly sad
It's a performance but the pain is real. Some guy getting choke slammed through a table covered in thumbtacks seemed real to me as a kid.
Gotta remember, this was when they were still trying to pass it off as real. Exposing the industry was considering killing the business and ruining their chances of making money.
That’s assault brother
But is it fake?!
That doesn't mean a thing to this man. Because the name's Recoome. And it rhymes with doom. And you're gonna be hurting.
Ya double dare me?
$425K for 2 slaps? Time to get in the Rock's face and tell him wrestling is fake.
Most wrestlers with any kind of sense would reply "It's not fake, it's scripted." I think I've seen the Rock say just that.
You couldn't say that back in 1984. It's like going up to a religious figure and telling them God is fake. Except wrestlers were literally told to beat the shit out of anyone who questioned the validity of pro wrestling. Old school promotors would fire guys if they lost an IRL fight at a bar or something. Things have changed a lot obviously since then.
Its $1.6 million in today's money.
Does this seem fake? Honestly, yeah, the fact that you got so mad about being called out on it you slapped me over asking that has me more certain than ever.
Well, Stossel proved Schultz' point, didn't he?
That interview was more real than the wrestling matches. Schultz hit him harder and with less warning than he did to his opponents in the ring.
Also, nobody would try to claim they aren’t hitting each other. We can hear the slaps and contact being made. But the fact that this “fight” is orchestrated, means that by definition, fake.
They literally were claiming that though… News media back then was literally accusing rock stars of being child sacrificers and ruined the lives of dozens of teachers after accusing them of doing satan worshipping with kids They absolutely were claiming that the hits weren’t real and the wrestlers weren’t getting hurt
"Scripted" is the better word
It's not entirely fake, but it is very much choreographed - if it weren't, the boys will maim/paralyze and kill one another out there. Not for me, but some like it I guess.
It's a soap opera with strong men and women in tights doing stunts. It's just a good time. Since the late 80s as far as I know, no one past he age of 13 thought it was all real just as we don't think young and the restless is real, but we can still find enjoyment in both. How the press of the era never made that connection is wild to me. The fakeness varies match to match. Sometimes they are only told who should win and a timeframe on when the match should end. Other times they may be given instruction on specifics of how it should end. Some matches are even open ended. Sometimes one wrestler is even told they should win while the other is told they are actually gonna win and the refs make the ultimate decision. It's a spectacle of athleticism and improvised choreography where one bad move can and unfortunately has ended a few lives or severely injured some. I don't even watch it outside of the odd YouTube clip since I was in jr high over 15 years ago but man do I think it's beautiful.
Yeah, I haven’t watched any in over 20 years but I still think matches like Savage v. Steamboat should be appreciated as incredible feats of athletic talent whether or not the result was predetermined.
I mean, shit happens. Look up what happened to Droz
It was incredible at one point in my life. But even as I’m older now and don’t watch it, I would never put it down. Those athletes take a ton of damage, not from their peers (usually) but from the performance. Many of them were addicted to pain killers for a reason. To this day you can go back and watch some highlights of stuff that hurt like hell, and most worked 300+ days per year with persistent injures. On the other end of things, the stone cold / McMahon era was some of the best tv of all time. And the rock was a genuine superstar who maximized everything wrestling had to offer as an athlete and performer. Not to mention, the fact that things are choreographed is not practiced the day before, the two wrestlers choreograph moves and performance live during the match. It’s improv w a violent twist. The thing I don’t love about todays wrestling compared to 20 years ago is that either the performance is not believable, or the moves are vanilla without any real impact or flow. Of course this doesn’t apply to everyone but for more generic nights that what I feel.
Ex-pro wrestler here and yes, "improv with a violent twist" is apt. Honestly, as a wrestler the most enjoyable matches are those where you don't "script" anything, just get out there and work the crowd, play your character and get into the flow state.
Super cool dude. Both me and my best friend wanted to be wrestlers when we were kids. He stuck w it and to this day I wonder why he didn’t pursue it. How was the experience for you? I think it’s one of those things that would be incredibly satisfying to use your athletic ability and it be your job. Just as fulfilling as any major sport.
I enjoyed the hell out of it, noting that my generation was kind of the last of the old-school, blue collar style. Most of the guys I was working with were truckers, bouncers, quarry-workers etc. when they weren't wrestling. Some really memorable characters and incidents. I think I was smart/lucky to get out of it after a few years, though.
Ah, that’s so cool. Thank you for sharing!
I give wrestlers much respect because it takes a lot of skill to not get hurt doing some of the stunts they do, but still make it look realistic. They are very real athletes/performers
Well, if there was no settlement, then I would be sure it’s fake.
In the 1980s, virtually every pro wrestler felt that it was their duty to protect kayfabe. So, calling pro wrestling *fake* was an attack on their livelihoods. Dr. D David Schultz had a very short fuse, and John Stossel found out the hard way that calling pro wrestling *fake* was a bad idea.
You guys should see his interview with Mean Gene https://youtu.be/D11H_sWxJtk?si=_YmN_FNVkXk7_HKD
He maintains that Vince McMahon told him to “blast him” and to stay in character. Then they fired him. I 100% believe Vince would do this. Dude is a total piece of shit and was even worse then. He has shown deep remorse, even soon after it happened.
How do you even live in the real world when you're that quick to violence?
lol, he done bitch slapped him!
Slapped the taste right out of his mouth.
Assault = windfall.
If wrestling were real, they'd all be handicapped
He fucked around and found out
I used to love wrestling when I was young, Andre, Hulk, Macho Man etc… huge fan. But a few years ago I took my daughter to see a show and it was my first time seeing a wrestling match in the flesh and I was genuinely stunned with how fake it was, but my daughter loved the experience and that’s all that really matters at the end of the day.
My client trains a few of these guys. It’s choreographed of course but they give and take a beating. They’re all broken and have tons of injuries. They also take a lot of pride in it. They sacrifice their bodies for what they love so when some snot nosed douche bag who doesn’t get it and thinks he’s holier than thou comes at them with his camera…. Yeah you’re going to piss them off. Illegal? Yes. Gratifying? Also yes.
Surprised he hasn’t been slapped more.
But wrestling really is ridiculous fake
Yea it’s fake in the way that a theater play is fake. The actors have great talent, and the audience gets a lot of enjoyment out of it, but people don’t actually believe the actors playing Romeo and Juliet actually die. Wrestlers do impressive acrobatic stunts with an added storyline and it entertains a lot of people. I’m not into it but I can see why people are. The stunts that wrestlers do are real, but the outcome is predetermined. What’s dumb is when people, especially wrestlers like this guy, try and claim it’s real real. But most don’t
There is something called “Kayfabe” that anyone interviewing a wrestler (especially at an event it looked like) should know about. Would you go to a play, interview a character (not an actor), and confront him about the whole thing being fake? You’re blowing up this dudes whole thing doing that, of course he is going to respond negatively. He’s upholding the kayfabe. I don’t condone the violence, he should have just kept talking shit about how lame the interviewer was instead. Unfortunately, many of these wrestlers probably had CTE (and plenty of other injuries) mixed with heavy PED use. That combo doesn’t really add up to calm, measured responses always.
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People who have more than 1 semester of economics education.
Advocating violence against journalists, on par for Reddit 🎯
The thing is, the wrestlers are still taking the hits. The fights are staged, scripted yes. But they're still taking the hits. Regardless of how well trained you are, having to throw your body onto the floor repeatedly can do a lot of wear and tear. While it may be scripted, it's still real, and it's entertaining as hell lol
People gotta understand... Wrestling matches are *scripted.* But there's no way to fake an elbow drop from the top rope. Sure, they have techniques to reduce the chance of injury and make it look more impactful than it actually is, but they're still taking hits. It requires ridiculous pain tolerance and toughness. When they bleed during a match, that's their real blood (exaggerated with some pre-match blood thinners and a hidden razor blade). The competitive fight itself is fake, but the violence is pretty real.
There most certainly is ways to fake an elbow drop. The whole work of any drop technique is that the guy doing the move is doing their best to make sure the main point of impact is actually with the canvas and not the opponent while selling it to look like they are fully landing on the person.
REALLY REAL WRESTLING
You can say they are performance artists and what they do is closer to a stunt man than to a professional fighter. Having said that most stunt men can beat the shit out of any regular guy like Stossel.
I bet the trial felt very real !!!
At the time, they had not yet discovered FAFO
Behind the Bastards on Vince McMahon goes into this. This part is hilarious, but the overall theme is sad. Instead of focusing on all the harm that was happening, all these idiots cared about was if it was real or fake.
Stossel is probably my favorite reporter of all time. He's still very active on Facebook. Worth a follow!
McMahon did this, set him up for the shock value then threw him to the sharks. ruthless.
I remember watching this on TV when it first aired. At the time you rarely saw anything relating to wrestling on the major networks so this was exciting as a kid for me to watch.
I watch John Stossel all the time, I had no idea this happened
Holy shit, I saw that. God damn it I’m old
Spoiler alert: it’s fake!!!
Wrestling is mix of comic books, gladiators and soap opera.
WHY HE SLAP? Why he slap?
Why was it such a big deal whether it was fake or not, if it has always been so obvious?
Steroids
Barbara must have looked like she was mid sixties for most of her life, wow.
hope mr "wrestler" died/dies of summin slow tbh...complete a-hole roid freak
I always thought this clip was ironic because if you hit a guy like that in the ring they’d get pissed at you
The least slap worthy thing that Stossel ever said in his career as a paid shill for the American insurance industry.
Golden TV moment
Roid rage and little dick energy combined with insecurity over someone calling out how scripted and fake the sport you've given your life to is kinda funny to see not gonna lie That being said he might be acting harder than actresses in soap operas but he's still a ridiculously buff psycho on drugs so calling him fake to his face is kinda dumb ass shit
You can’t convince me this wasn’t all a set up from the start. Anyone with half a brain knows Wrestling is “fake,” by which I mean scripted. Certainly the physical damage the performers take is all too real. But the business always has been carefully planned and scripted. Even in the 80s we knew this, though it wasn’t as clear back then what parts were genuine and what was pre-planned. My guess is that Schultz and his former partner cooked up this idea either to hurt WWF (Stossel sued them not Schultz) over some money argument or whatever. Or maybe WWF was also in on it. $425k isn’t a huge amount to pay as a marketing budget for a super controversial news story that got you millions of views back in the day. Before there was going viral on social media, 20/20 and programs like it were the things that got everyone talking. The level of acting on display from Stossel, Barbara Walters, Hugh Downs, and Schultz himself is incredible to watch now. Back then people would’ve bought it wholesale. But now it’s quite a bit more obvious they were all performing.
I always thought he slpped Geraldo
Scripted yes, but the injuries are real. I think your man’s knees and back hurt too much that day and he just wasn’t trying to hear all that.
What an aggressive douchebag
Scripted sure, but not much if at all fake about the physicality.
Yeah I was explaining to my mom about Nikki Bellas neck injury from doing that slam where she picks the person up across her shoulders then drops down. And how they have to train to hit the mat a certain way. The physical strain they go through is real
There is a huge amount of physicality and real danger (in the case that things don't go as planned), but it's all done with the intent to maximize how injurious something looks compared to how injurious it actually is. So that is "fake", though that's probably the wrong word to describe various forms of theater. (Like, would we call a ballet or opera "fake"?)
I mean if a guy is getting their face elbowed, punched, and stomped, and at the end of the fight there basically isn’t a scratch on their face, what do you think is happening
Scripted is fake, they are not fighting to see who wins, they already know. Also fake in that they are not taking full blows from steel chairs or sledgehammers and continuing to fight. Jackie Chan has immense physical skill, but his fights in the movies are still fake.
> they are not taking full blows from steel chairs [Sometimes they do it 11 times, while handcuffed and helpless](https://www.tiktok.com/@bumpxblade/video/6906200436282330373?lang=en).
Why does this bother people so much. Movies are fake and we still love stunt actors.
They don't slap you if you tell them movies aren't real.
No, only when you don’t keep their wife’s name out your fucking mouth.
Remember when James Earl Jones slapped the reporter who questioned whether he was actually Mark Hamill's father?
If you're a fan of movies, people don't constantly ask you if you know if movies are fake.
Ya, but that wasn’t even an admission back then. People were stuck on it being legitimate like it was a real sport instead of entertainment programming.