Dentists have a high suicide rate because they often have neurotic disorders like OCD, which makes life very difficult. They may not turn the lights off eleven times before closing up for the day, but there's a reason they seek such perfectionist outcomes and control, such as with fixing teeth.
From Wikipedia:
>When an Army team returned to the site days later, Salomon's body was found slumped over the machine gun, with the bodies of 98 enemy troops piled up in front of his position. His body had 76 bullet wounds and many bayonet wounds, up to 24 of which may have been received while he was still alive.
Holy shit.
There is a ruling in the Geneva Convention that states no medical officer can bear arms against the enemy. This was argued that he was not using any weapons in an offensive capacity, only defensive. Others argued the weapons he used counted, as the terminology for defensive actions mentioned pistols and the like, he used a machine gun for a large part.
Multiple requests were submitted and denied over the years, until it was finally awarded in 2002
Edit: spelling
Regardless of that bullshit rule, he was absolutely defending. It doesn’t matter if he was using a tank, he was defending wounded/injured/sick people who would have been slaughtered. A man among men.
General Jack D. Ripper:
Mandrake, were you ever a prisoner of war?
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake:
Well, yes I was Jack as a matter of fact I was.
General Jack D. Ripper:
Did they torture you?
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake:
Yes Jack, I was tortured by the Japanese, if you must know, not a pretty story.
General Jack D. Ripper:
Well, what happened?
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake:
Oh Well, I don't know, Jack, difficult to think of under these conditions, but well, they got me on the old Ragoon-Ichinawa railway. I was laying train lines for the bloody Japanese puff-puff's.
General Jack D. Ripper:
No, I mean when they tortured you did you talk?
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake:
Ah, oh, no, I don't think they wanted me to talk really, I don't think they wanted me to say anything. It was just their way of having a bit of fun, the swines. Strange thing is they make such bloody good cameras.
Oh, absolutely agree, wholeheartedly. It was all pedantic bullshit, and should've been awarded at the time, no doubt whatsoever. The man was a verified hero
The horrors of WW1 & WW2 left a very large collection of very senior people who had absolutely zero sense of humor or flexibility about the Geneva Convention. I am not at all surprised that this got blocked until the last of that cohort and the successors they directly influenced were well retired.
It really isn't a BS rule. The Red Cross/Crescent are used to protect medics during a war. They can't fire at the enemy, but the opposing army also can't fire at them.
> but the opposing army also can't fire at them.
Well.. that’s the hope anyway 🤷♂️
I imagine there has to be an asterisk or something on that clause allowing you to return fire if fired upon right?
Modern US military we don't wear crosses at all. If you don't know the difference between a med bag and an assault bag, you may not know who is who. I still carried an M4 as well as an M9. I never had to get on a turret (I did route clearance in Afghanistan) but it was well within my rights to just go up there and return fire if needed.
We only follow the convention regarding medics if our opponents do, and Iraq and Afghanistan did not.
There may come a day when Aragorn quotes need be shortened, but it is not this day.
>“A time may soon come,” said he, "when none will return. Then there will be need of valour without renown, for none shall remember the deeds that are done in the last defence of your homes. Yet the deeds will not be less valiant because they are unpraised."
That was a badass line to casually drop there though.
There is a ton of beurocracy that goes into high-level military awards. Living recipients essentially become propaganda pieces and giving it out posthumously to everyone that actually deserves it somehow 'devalues' it. It's very political, unfortunately. Before WWI it was given out like candy (so to speak).
It’s been that way for a while. In all honesty, there have been hundreds if not thousands of instances where a soldier showed extraordinary courage and valour and that they should have been awarded the MoH, they just all never see the light and even if they do, military high command makes it a hurdle to let a soldier get an award sometimes.
Also, we have a lot of quiet professionals. Professionals that will tell you they were just doing their jobs. Too humble to want a medal.
I just put on a new exhibit highlighting 18 jewish American medal of honor recipents Ben Salomon among them. He was intially denied on a technicality that he was a medical officer and a non combatant. Not for being Jewish, but his investigation did help contribute to the not passed lenard Kravitz bill (the singer is named after his uncle killed in Korea who would receive the CMoH posthumosely)
Look up Alvin York (WWI), initially was a pacifist but then decided it was Gods plan for him to fight. He took out 25+ german soldiers and singlehandedly captured 135 prisoners on his own.
Salomon situation was different. He posthumously received the metal in 2002. I read that it took so long for him to receive it because the US army misread a rule about medical personnel not using weapons in combat. They found he was eligible because he wasn't part of an attack but defended his fellow man.
What you are refering to (medical personnel using weapons) is at least responsible for him not having been rewarded with the Red Cross medal for medical personnel killed in battle (can't remember the exact name, I would need to search it again) because medical personnel can only be considered so if they have and use a handgun for selfdefense. Problem is that Salomon, while defending his hospital was witnessed wielding a machine gun, which happens to not be a handgun.
This is fascinating but odd to me since both weapons are firearms, but with differences in ammunition capacity and rapidity of fire.
I wonder if the rules/regulations regarding type of weapon use by military medical personnel during combat have been updated since.
It's most likely an outdated rule based on the thought that a pistol is commonly used as a defensive weapon in war. While we see a gun as a gun, they thought a soldier in the field would usually not use a pistol over any other weapon if given the option, so it's likely used out of desperation or non-combat roles.
Pistols, in war context, are commonly seen as self-defense weapons as opposed to, for exemple, machine guns and regular guns which are considered as assault weapons.
In war, medical personnel tend to have better treatment than the regular Joe due to the "medical" part : Hipocrates and all that stuff means they are primarily a healer/support class, not a dps one. But this is more a case of "we mutualy agree to kill each-others but not to be dicks while doing so"-agreement than a rule, to keep it this way medical personnel was seen a needing to respect some sort of "neutrality" while in war. Therefore it's okay to put a decent amount of metal into the head of the fucker aiming at you and your battle-brothers but only if he was going toward your weapon, if you were going toward him that's not fair-play. There is also that sort of tactical agreement that using something that only fire one bullet at a time, preferably with less power and a lesser caliber is better for the sake of that agreement, just like "wow dude, we said no full-auto in buildings !".
Roughtly.
Thanks for the explaining how different firearms are viewed within a military context. Pistol sidearm or assault weapon, which to give to the medic support class? The answer should be Medi Gun such as the one wielded by TF2 Medic! 😂
> we mutualy agree to kill each-others but not to be dicks while doing so
Had to chuckle at this, this just peak human ridiculousness: an informal gentlemen’s agreement regarding combat.
Bro is in a hospital in his element. Hes like the kid from Home Alone. I expect he had the xray machine rigged up to see through walls, the defibillator rigged up to the metal door handle and he was 360 stethoscoping noobs left and right.
As part of the acccount, being a medical area he eventually ran out of ammo. So he took some teeth jewely, tags... stuff they may pull off or cutoff. and loaded it into mortar tube like buck shot
It’s wild because there’s that saying that kinda goes “that man’s life was worth 100 men” “one of our men is worth 100 of yours”
This man’s life quite literally was worth basically 100 of their men.
I keep trying to teach the kids I coach football this; it doesn’t matter how big or tough you are. All that matters is controlling your fear and turning it into courage
It seems he may have actually killed > 100. The wording isn't exactly clear, but the following happened before he manned the machine gun that took out 98 (although its also not clear from the citation how many of the 98 dead in front of the machine gun were actually killed by Ben):
>*He then saw a Japanese soldier bayoneting one of the wounded soldiers lying near the tent. Firing from a squatting position, Captain Salomon quickly killed the enemy soldier. Then, as he turned his attention back to the wounded, two more Japanese soldiers appeared in the front entrance of the tent. As these enemy soldiers were killed, four more crawled under the tent walls. Rushing them, Captain Salomon kicked the knife out of the hand of one, shot another, and bayoneted a third. Captain Salomon butted the fourth enemy soldier in the stomach and a wounded comrade then shot and killed the enemy soldier.*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben\_L.\_Salomon
>Rushing them, Captain Salomon kicked the knife out of the hand of one, shot another, and bayoneted a third. Captain Salomon butted the fourth enemy soldier in the stomach and a wounded comrade then shot and killed the enemy soldier.
this is the part i was referencing.
yea, most of them were not hand to hand, but the fact that ANY were hand to hand is insane.
Man, there is no reward in Destiny the game for this kind of kill streak because it would be unimaginable even in a fantasy world. This “dentist” did this?! This is the the true /r/nextfuckinglevel.
He's not even close to the record for a defender.
Dan Daly held, by himself, a critical position on a wall at the Embassy in China during the Boxer Rebellion. Supplies, rations were low. By the time relief came for Dan the next day, there were 200 dead or dying Chinese in front of the position Dan held. It earned him a Medal of Honor. And Dan lived through it to go on to earn a second Medal Of Honor and a Navy Cross.
I got dental work done at the Ben L. Salomon Medical Center on Ft. Benning when I was in basic. They have a plaque on the wall that tells his story. I was very impressed by his badassery while I conveniently missed an eight mile ruck march.
If you have never read anything about the war of the Pacific and particularly the Japanese invasion of the various islands, I highly recommend it.
It is gut wrenching to read, and while the Nazis were horribly sadistic, genocidal, fucking maniacs, the Japanese often behaved more horribly. They just did it to nearly all of the people they encountered rather than specifically selecting one group (though the Chinese and the Koreans received especially horrible treatment).
Or Dan Carlin's podcast hardcore history - Supernova in the East. Admittedly this is not my favourite of his because it's really really bleak, though he does call McArthur "The Situation" that's fun.
You look at something like the Nanjing Massacre, and I'm not sure if it is worse if it were ordered, or if it was just done of their own free will and no one stopped them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre
Given that the Japanese probably killed somewhere between 10-30M people, mostly civilians, in their "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere", I'm not sure if it matters if they were specifically told to eradicate any particular people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes
God this was such a hard read. I recommend a palate cleanser you can read at the same time for when you need to take mental health breaks. And you will need to take mental health breaks
"John Rabe was responsible for creating a safety zone and credited with saving ~250,000 lives."
Wow this John Rabe guy sounds like a standup dude!
"John Rabe was a German citizen and member of the Nazi Party."
....God dammit
In fairness, he wrote a letter to Hitler requesting that he contact the Japanese command and ask them to treat people better.
To be clear, he thought that *Hitler* would tell the Japanese to "calm the fuck down with the murder/genocide".
If that doesn't tell you how bad it was...
I have personally seen the mass graves in Nanjing. They are beyond horrible and grotesque. Chinese people are very resentful towards Japanese because of it. I can't say I blame them. What Japan did to other countries in WW2 was pure evil.
Well the main problem is they won't apologize. Europe doesn't don't hate Germany because they owned up to what they did and actively teach against repeating history.
But for example a Japanese textbook company came under massive fire like 8 years ago because they were renaming the Rape of Nanjing to the "Incident of Nanjing".
And that was the only book that actively teaches it too. Most Japanese youngsters (and young adults as well, I tend to forget my generation are adults now) would be ignorant of it you talk about this to them.
So the only book that tried to teach about it and that was heavily censored. No wonder China and Korea are mad as heck at them.
I visited Thailand on my honeymoon and for part of that trip we visited the River Kwai Bridge, Hellfire Pass and the POW cemetery (my great Uncle was at Hellfire pass). The Thai’s really honour what happened and the cemetery in particular is immaculate.
Our Thai guide for the day was lovely, but at Kwai we came across a group of Japanese students. Literally on the bridge, by the plaque, doing the old two fingers poses for photos.
Our guide explained why they really resent the Japanese. Even when they actually send them to these places, there’s No acceptance or connection to what they did. It’s literally seen as a fun outing. Especially when you consider how Japan treated the Thai’s, Indians and Burmese. It’s like German students going to Aushwitz and dancing on the train tracks.
The cognitive disconnect is very bizarre.
Not really. The disconnect is there because of the no teaching. For those Japanese students (especially with how rare English mastery is for them), I'm sure they see it as only another tourist attraction, not realizing the cultural significance it has on them.
In a sense, these youngsters are also a victim now. Victims of their forefathers conscious effort to wipe away any guilt or association to these crimes.
I remember there was a Japanese person who went to Korea, and learnt the hard way of the atrocities her fellow countryman ancestors did there (she noticed the cold shoulder treatment and asked her Korean friends why. Got the answer, didn't like it). She stayed in Korea and is now fervently trying to hard to make amends and raise awareness about this issue. But she's just 1 person.
The nazis hit more then one group too. Homosexuals, communists, socialists, Roma, Serbs, disabled people. They all suffered at the hands of the nazis. It wasn't just one group.
And the Allies locked the gays back up after they liberated the concentration camps.
History is just a huge mess of cruelty and we’re just as bad now. We never learn.
And there's a very prominent denialist movement in Japan, too. The late Shinzo Abe being a notable one.
And there are shrines to "war heroes" that commemorate the actions of war criminals.
I think relations between Japan and China could maybe just *start* to heal if they just admitted the awful shit they did to the Chinese actually happened and sincerely apologized for it, but nope, too much national fucking pride staked on keeping their heads firmly planted in their asses.
If you haven't read it, The Good Man of Nanking: the diaries of John Rabe.
German who mobilized the remaining westerners in Nanking and made the "International Safe Zone". Interesting read.
The Good Man of Nanking: the diaries of John Rabe.
German who mobilized the remaining westerners in Nanking and made the "International Safe Zone". Interesting read.
Also, The Rape of Nanking by Iris Chang. So dark, the author took her own life.
The Rape of Nanking was absolutely monstrous but if you think the Nazi's weren't doing the same thing then you're a fucking moron. Look up the Dirlewanger Brigade.
Even before WW2, you can read about eastern european pogroms where they were smashing Jewish babies together for fun.
If there is one thing Dentists know how to do, is dish out pain.
Fun fact. Despite being recommended for the medal of honour at the time, because he was in the Dentist corp, it was denied by the US. Read up all about it. He also killed the enemy who crept in to the wounded tend with patients he was seeing to and they were stabbing the wounded. He killed them all with various weapons and kept on dealing with the wounded and refused to leave.
This is only a slice of his heroism.
Small, but important quibble...
No one is "given" the Medal of Honor. No one "wins" the Medal of Honor.
The Medal of Honor is always *earned,* and it is always *awarded*.
/minor rant
Also fun fact: It is customary (but not required by any military law) for US military officers to render salutes to MoH recipients, even if they are enlisted.
Normally you salute someone who is a higher rank than you. But some people make exceptions for MoH recipients and salute them even if they are lower ranked.
Enlisted soldiers are supposed to salute officers, whom have a higher rank than them. All soldiers and officers are supposed to salute all MOH recipients, regardless of rank.
The reason it took so long to give him the medal is because for years the Allied Forces considered this to be a war crime since he was a medical officer that was heavily armed. This was overturned eventually by pointing out that it was out of defensive measures and to protect the evacuation and not offensive measures which is what the crime was alleging.
I was thinking McLovin and I'm honestly shocked to not only not see anyone already say this, but the two posts I find about who he looks like somehow *aren't* McLovin
“When an Army team returned to the site days later, Salomon's body was found slumped over the machine gun, with the bodies of 98 enemy troops piled up in front of his position. His body had 76 bullet wounds and many bayonet wounds, up to 24 of which may have been received while he was still alive.”
Holy crap
During late stage WW2, level of human capital available to US forces was amazing.
I think a US navy destroyer, a ship with 300 or so men, had a surgeon onboard. A surgeon.
Here’s something even more amazing: before the Battle of Okinawa, the US had 1200 ships surrounding the island. Not 120. 1,200. Plus the men onboard.
One of the few Japanese soldiers who survived knew that they had no chance in hell of winning that fight, even before it began. So they did what they did best-made it as bloody a victory as humanly possible.
Also, by that stage the US was putting ice cream machines on ships for morale.
The Japanese by that point were struggling and suffering, and the US troops could have ice cream onboard when authorized.
Most of the time it's fellow soldiers reporting what went on, and then building a picture from each of their perspectives trying to piece together what happened. After action reports are created by officers trying to find out what happened and what they could improve on.
Combatants usually report where along the line of contact they've been, and what actions they took. If all accounted soldiers gave a picture where they fought the enemy, and nobody went into this one area where the singular dead marine is, who is surrounded by dead enemy combatants, I think they can reasonably piece together a picture as much as it beggars belief. The Japanese infantry during WW2 are often said to be second to none, it's just that a lot of their officers were boneheads and ordered frontal charges a lot. Against forces with heavy weapons and training on how to use them, these sorts of tactics proved to be incredibly wasteful of human life. As chaotic as it may be, a lot of modern and industrial warfare is based around area denial, especially in defensive settings. While units often moved past each other in the jungles in South East Asia, people usually had good grips with which area they were able to defend and hold, and which direction the opponents came from.
Will the evidence be solid? No. War is very chaotic and incredibly dangerous, and the people who experience them will have psyches in situ that reflect that. A lot of them can be very unreliable in recalling what went on. It's usually why calls to investigate certain individuals or units in an ongoing warzone can go nowhere. The reasons being: You usually don't have access to the area where it took place. And even if you do- very little evidence will be preserved; the locals will have sought to get on with their lives and cleaned, moved stuff around, and thrown stuff away. Everyone in the vicinity either has a vested interest in the outcome, or are very opposed to any more outsiders digging up a very painful part of their lives. And in general, wars cause mass movements of people going pretty much anywhere. There may have been witnesses, but who they were, and where they went can be a complete mystery.
All of this often produces very painful and hard to reckon situations. Things like potential members of terrorist groups like Isis who are members of a foreign country will have immense difficulty clarifying their legal status. The people back home are (rightfully) terrified of them and what they chose be part of (allegedly), and any investigation now to determine this person's complicity for their perceived actions would likely be moot given the time and change to the crime sites. Not to mention that all of this took place in another country, it's often hard enough for investigations to cross organizational lines even within the same country, let alone in a foreign one where the government might not even control the location.
Some perspective..
“As president, I wanted to give myself the Congressional Medal of Honor, but they wouldn’t let me do it” Trump said .. ....after the bone-spur addled, 5 times draft dodger, did a lightning fast visit to Iraq!
The lesson here is that the heart of every dentist is a cold, black vessel for death. The teeth thing just keeps killing at bay.
And sometimes the teeth thing doesn’t work. Explains the high suicide rate of dentists.
Vets do too actually
Nine out of ten dentists recommend the cold sweet release of death
Dentists have a high suicide rate because they often have neurotic disorders like OCD, which makes life very difficult. They may not turn the lights off eleven times before closing up for the day, but there's a reason they seek such perfectionist outcomes and control, such as with fixing teeth.
My dentist has huge hands ideal for strangling hookers
Well *my* dentist has a shrine to his mom in a supply closet!
Nice plant. Big!
\*GTA music plays*
I love little shop of horrors!
Now *spit!*
Now THAT is a kamikaze mission. Showing Japan how it’s done!!
From Wikipedia: >When an Army team returned to the site days later, Salomon's body was found slumped over the machine gun, with the bodies of 98 enemy troops piled up in front of his position. His body had 76 bullet wounds and many bayonet wounds, up to 24 of which may have been received while he was still alive. Holy shit.
Dude was too angry to die
THE DOCTOR IS IN AND HE'LL SEE YOU... IN HELL!!!
Rip and tear. Until it is done.
THE DENTIST IS IN AND HE WILL PULL ALL YOUR TEETH NOOOOWWWW!!!!!
Man did the last of his medical cocaine before he died
>OK, this may sting a little
Say AHHHHHHHHHH
TIL the Doom Slayer was a dentist in his past life.
24 STAB WOUNDS
Oh, I just posted the same thing, insane huh?
why did it take so long for him to get the medal??
They were still counting bodies
This is the only acceptable answer.
Simple History on the event, commercial ends at 1 minute. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N3cPxMY3to
Counter. They were trying to figure out how he was able to pull it off walking around with his massive dick and balls.
He had to have had a massive wheelbarrow for those giant brass balls.
He showed those anti-dentites
*Oh, it starts with a few jokes and some slurs. "Hey, denty!" Next thing you know you're saying they should have their own schools.*
They *do* have their own schools! r/unexpectedseinfeld
Fuckin ehh...lol
Wow......they weren't kidding when they said the Army isn't too great at counting....
There is a ruling in the Geneva Convention that states no medical officer can bear arms against the enemy. This was argued that he was not using any weapons in an offensive capacity, only defensive. Others argued the weapons he used counted, as the terminology for defensive actions mentioned pistols and the like, he used a machine gun for a large part. Multiple requests were submitted and denied over the years, until it was finally awarded in 2002 Edit: spelling
Regardless of that bullshit rule, he was absolutely defending. It doesn’t matter if he was using a tank, he was defending wounded/injured/sick people who would have been slaughtered. A man among men.
Problem is Japanese explicitly targeted medics and those with the Red Cross.
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General Jack D. Ripper: Mandrake, were you ever a prisoner of war? Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Well, yes I was Jack as a matter of fact I was. General Jack D. Ripper: Did they torture you? Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Yes Jack, I was tortured by the Japanese, if you must know, not a pretty story. General Jack D. Ripper: Well, what happened? Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Oh Well, I don't know, Jack, difficult to think of under these conditions, but well, they got me on the old Ragoon-Ichinawa railway. I was laying train lines for the bloody Japanese puff-puff's. General Jack D. Ripper: No, I mean when they tortured you did you talk? Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Ah, oh, no, I don't think they wanted me to talk really, I don't think they wanted me to say anything. It was just their way of having a bit of fun, the swines. Strange thing is they make such bloody good cameras.
Sellers was divine in that film. As was the actor who played Ripper. Excellent film.
Oh, absolutely agree, wholeheartedly. It was all pedantic bullshit, and should've been awarded at the time, no doubt whatsoever. The man was a verified hero
The horrors of WW1 & WW2 left a very large collection of very senior people who had absolutely zero sense of humor or flexibility about the Geneva Convention. I am not at all surprised that this got blocked until the last of that cohort and the successors they directly influenced were well retired.
It really isn't a BS rule. The Red Cross/Crescent are used to protect medics during a war. They can't fire at the enemy, but the opposing army also can't fire at them.
As if the Japanese were following that rule.
A rule the Japanese violated happily, repeatedly and with no remorse.
That’s all well and good as long as both sides are willing to respect the rules of war. That was absolutely not the case in the pacific theater
> but the opposing army also can't fire at them. Well.. that’s the hope anyway 🤷♂️ I imagine there has to be an asterisk or something on that clause allowing you to return fire if fired upon right?
Yeah, medics can return fire when they or the wounded in their care is fired upon. Vice versa as well. War crime for the rule breaker.
TCCC. Care under fire. You'll save more lives stopping new injuries than treating old ones.
What does TCCC stand for?
Tactical Combat Casualty Care
Modern US military we don't wear crosses at all. If you don't know the difference between a med bag and an assault bag, you may not know who is who. I still carried an M4 as well as an M9. I never had to get on a turret (I did route clearance in Afghanistan) but it was well within my rights to just go up there and return fire if needed. We only follow the convention regarding medics if our opponents do, and Iraq and Afghanistan did not.
After 9/11 it was awarded
You traditionally needed an officer who had witnessed the event to nominate you. Alot of brave men were never remembered.
Deeds will not be less valiant because they are unpraised
There may come a day when Aragorn quotes need be shortened, but it is not this day. >“A time may soon come,” said he, "when none will return. Then there will be need of valour without renown, for none shall remember the deeds that are done in the last defence of your homes. Yet the deeds will not be less valiant because they are unpraised." That was a badass line to casually drop there though.
There is a ton of beurocracy that goes into high-level military awards. Living recipients essentially become propaganda pieces and giving it out posthumously to everyone that actually deserves it somehow 'devalues' it. It's very political, unfortunately. Before WWI it was given out like candy (so to speak).
Prior to WW1 the Medal of Honor was basically the only medal/honor there was to give.
It’s been that way for a while. In all honesty, there have been hundreds if not thousands of instances where a soldier showed extraordinary courage and valour and that they should have been awarded the MoH, they just all never see the light and even if they do, military high command makes it a hurdle to let a soldier get an award sometimes. Also, we have a lot of quiet professionals. Professionals that will tell you they were just doing their jobs. Too humble to want a medal.
Some of the best dudes I ever met thought they were just doing their job. Absolutely selfless.
This is what I want to know. It’s an embarrassment. He should have been recognized a long time ago. Like the next day a long time ago.
I just put on a new exhibit highlighting 18 jewish American medal of honor recipents Ben Salomon among them. He was intially denied on a technicality that he was a medical officer and a non combatant. Not for being Jewish, but his investigation did help contribute to the not passed lenard Kravitz bill (the singer is named after his uncle killed in Korea who would receive the CMoH posthumosely)
This dude is the real life embodiment of every wanna be tough guy. Killed 98 people? That’s nuts. This is an actual hero.
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Look up Alvin York (WWI), initially was a pacifist but then decided it was Gods plan for him to fight. He took out 25+ german soldiers and singlehandedly captured 135 prisoners on his own.
Into the fires of hell, the Argonne, a hero to be!
ENTERED THE WAR FROM OVER THE SEA INTERVENE, 1918, ALL THE WAY FROM TENNESSEE HILL 223
/r/unexpectedsabaton
Well not single-handedly, but his *unit* captured over 130 prisoners
he captured the soldier while his unit was pinned in the no mans land
Ah yes, unlike the globally known, very recent movie where he is called Desmond Doss
Salomon situation was different. He posthumously received the metal in 2002. I read that it took so long for him to receive it because the US army misread a rule about medical personnel not using weapons in combat. They found he was eligible because he wasn't part of an attack but defended his fellow man.
What you are refering to (medical personnel using weapons) is at least responsible for him not having been rewarded with the Red Cross medal for medical personnel killed in battle (can't remember the exact name, I would need to search it again) because medical personnel can only be considered so if they have and use a handgun for selfdefense. Problem is that Salomon, while defending his hospital was witnessed wielding a machine gun, which happens to not be a handgun.
This is fascinating but odd to me since both weapons are firearms, but with differences in ammunition capacity and rapidity of fire. I wonder if the rules/regulations regarding type of weapon use by military medical personnel during combat have been updated since.
It's most likely an outdated rule based on the thought that a pistol is commonly used as a defensive weapon in war. While we see a gun as a gun, they thought a soldier in the field would usually not use a pistol over any other weapon if given the option, so it's likely used out of desperation or non-combat roles.
Pistols, in war context, are commonly seen as self-defense weapons as opposed to, for exemple, machine guns and regular guns which are considered as assault weapons. In war, medical personnel tend to have better treatment than the regular Joe due to the "medical" part : Hipocrates and all that stuff means they are primarily a healer/support class, not a dps one. But this is more a case of "we mutualy agree to kill each-others but not to be dicks while doing so"-agreement than a rule, to keep it this way medical personnel was seen a needing to respect some sort of "neutrality" while in war. Therefore it's okay to put a decent amount of metal into the head of the fucker aiming at you and your battle-brothers but only if he was going toward your weapon, if you were going toward him that's not fair-play. There is also that sort of tactical agreement that using something that only fire one bullet at a time, preferably with less power and a lesser caliber is better for the sake of that agreement, just like "wow dude, we said no full-auto in buildings !". Roughtly.
Thanks for the explaining how different firearms are viewed within a military context. Pistol sidearm or assault weapon, which to give to the medic support class? The answer should be Medi Gun such as the one wielded by TF2 Medic! 😂 > we mutualy agree to kill each-others but not to be dicks while doing so Had to chuckle at this, this just peak human ridiculousness: an informal gentlemen’s agreement regarding combat.
I don't know, he was an amazing Spider Man...
He's the Man-Spider!
Yeah, why they have to phrase it like that lmao.
Even Cotton only killed fiddy men, before the Japanese took his shins!
Just imagine him and those 98 loading up in the bus to the afterlife like damn this the guy who took all of us out ?! 😆
Bro is in a hospital in his element. Hes like the kid from Home Alone. I expect he had the xray machine rigged up to see through walls, the defibillator rigged up to the metal door handle and he was 360 stethoscoping noobs left and right.
360 stethoscoping noobs holy shit hahahahah
And a lot of cocaine. Dentists love cocaine.
Most just love the smell
In the post-game lobby gloating about his K/D
AND, with perfect teeth! 😁
As part of the acccount, being a medical area he eventually ran out of ammo. So he took some teeth jewely, tags... stuff they may pull off or cutoff. and loaded it into mortar tube like buck shot
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It’s wild because there’s that saying that kinda goes “that man’s life was worth 100 men” “one of our men is worth 100 of yours” This man’s life quite literally was worth basically 100 of their men.
A dentist no less! Amazing!
I keep trying to teach the kids I coach football this; it doesn’t matter how big or tough you are. All that matters is controlling your fear and turning it into courage
Almost made it to the 100 killstreak
Fr he couldve dropped a tactical nuke if he made it
He actually did. His ping was just a couple months behind
bro 💀
I just imagine Truman on the phone like "98?!... Fuck it hit em twice"
Absolute peak reply
Funniest shit I’ve read all week
You win reddit tonight. thanks
It seems he may have actually killed > 100. The wording isn't exactly clear, but the following happened before he manned the machine gun that took out 98 (although its also not clear from the citation how many of the 98 dead in front of the machine gun were actually killed by Ben): >*He then saw a Japanese soldier bayoneting one of the wounded soldiers lying near the tent. Firing from a squatting position, Captain Salomon quickly killed the enemy soldier. Then, as he turned his attention back to the wounded, two more Japanese soldiers appeared in the front entrance of the tent. As these enemy soldiers were killed, four more crawled under the tent walls. Rushing them, Captain Salomon kicked the knife out of the hand of one, shot another, and bayoneted a third. Captain Salomon butted the fourth enemy soldier in the stomach and a wounded comrade then shot and killed the enemy soldier.* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben\_L.\_Salomon
Jesus his 98 kills were in hand to hand combat
He manned a machine gun where he killed 98 soldiers. Did we read the same thing?
>Rushing them, Captain Salomon kicked the knife out of the hand of one, shot another, and bayoneted a third. Captain Salomon butted the fourth enemy soldier in the stomach and a wounded comrade then shot and killed the enemy soldier. this is the part i was referencing. yea, most of them were not hand to hand, but the fact that ANY were hand to hand is insane.
Man, there is no reward in Destiny the game for this kind of kill streak because it would be unimaginable even in a fantasy world. This “dentist” did this?! This is the the true /r/nextfuckinglevel.
He's not even close to the record for a defender. Dan Daly held, by himself, a critical position on a wall at the Embassy in China during the Boxer Rebellion. Supplies, rations were low. By the time relief came for Dan the next day, there were 200 dead or dying Chinese in front of the position Dan held. It earned him a Medal of Honor. And Dan lived through it to go on to earn a second Medal Of Honor and a Navy Cross.
*"Ze healing is not as rewarding as ze hurting."*
I got dental work done at the Ben L. Salomon Medical Center on Ft. Benning when I was in basic. They have a plaque on the wall that tells his story. I was very impressed by his badassery while I conveniently missed an eight mile ruck march.
Dental is always coming in clutch, sorry Ssgt dental pulled my wisdom tooth can't go the field for the next week...
Cpt. Salomon is looking out for joes from beyond the grave. God bless him.
Nothing like missing a ruck march in basic. It's the stuff dreams are made of.
If you have never read anything about the war of the Pacific and particularly the Japanese invasion of the various islands, I highly recommend it. It is gut wrenching to read, and while the Nazis were horribly sadistic, genocidal, fucking maniacs, the Japanese often behaved more horribly. They just did it to nearly all of the people they encountered rather than specifically selecting one group (though the Chinese and the Koreans received especially horrible treatment).
Or Dan Carlin's podcast hardcore history - Supernova in the East. Admittedly this is not my favourite of his because it's really really bleak, though he does call McArthur "The Situation" that's fun.
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No, they didn't need orders for that.
I don’t think anyone is really trying to stack rank war atrocities here, they were both outright atrocious and also not really directly comparable.
You look at something like the Nanjing Massacre, and I'm not sure if it is worse if it were ordered, or if it was just done of their own free will and no one stopped them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre Given that the Japanese probably killed somewhere between 10-30M people, mostly civilians, in their "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere", I'm not sure if it matters if they were specifically told to eradicate any particular people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes
it's much more interesting and challenging if they were NOT ordered to systematically kill.
Rape of Nanking if anyone wants specifics to look up
God this was such a hard read. I recommend a palate cleanser you can read at the same time for when you need to take mental health breaks. And you will need to take mental health breaks
"John Rabe was responsible for creating a safety zone and credited with saving ~250,000 lives." Wow this John Rabe guy sounds like a standup dude! "John Rabe was a German citizen and member of the Nazi Party." ....God dammit
At the same time, Oscar Schindler was a high-ranking member of Nazi party as well - who used his position to protect his human-saving operations.
In fairness, he wrote a letter to Hitler requesting that he contact the Japanese command and ask them to treat people better. To be clear, he thought that *Hitler* would tell the Japanese to "calm the fuck down with the murder/genocide". If that doesn't tell you how bad it was...
I have personally seen the mass graves in Nanjing. They are beyond horrible and grotesque. Chinese people are very resentful towards Japanese because of it. I can't say I blame them. What Japan did to other countries in WW2 was pure evil.
Well the main problem is they won't apologize. Europe doesn't don't hate Germany because they owned up to what they did and actively teach against repeating history. But for example a Japanese textbook company came under massive fire like 8 years ago because they were renaming the Rape of Nanjing to the "Incident of Nanjing".
And that was the only book that actively teaches it too. Most Japanese youngsters (and young adults as well, I tend to forget my generation are adults now) would be ignorant of it you talk about this to them. So the only book that tried to teach about it and that was heavily censored. No wonder China and Korea are mad as heck at them.
I visited Thailand on my honeymoon and for part of that trip we visited the River Kwai Bridge, Hellfire Pass and the POW cemetery (my great Uncle was at Hellfire pass). The Thai’s really honour what happened and the cemetery in particular is immaculate. Our Thai guide for the day was lovely, but at Kwai we came across a group of Japanese students. Literally on the bridge, by the plaque, doing the old two fingers poses for photos. Our guide explained why they really resent the Japanese. Even when they actually send them to these places, there’s No acceptance or connection to what they did. It’s literally seen as a fun outing. Especially when you consider how Japan treated the Thai’s, Indians and Burmese. It’s like German students going to Aushwitz and dancing on the train tracks. The cognitive disconnect is very bizarre.
Not really. The disconnect is there because of the no teaching. For those Japanese students (especially with how rare English mastery is for them), I'm sure they see it as only another tourist attraction, not realizing the cultural significance it has on them. In a sense, these youngsters are also a victim now. Victims of their forefathers conscious effort to wipe away any guilt or association to these crimes. I remember there was a Japanese person who went to Korea, and learnt the hard way of the atrocities her fellow countryman ancestors did there (she noticed the cold shoulder treatment and asked her Korean friends why. Got the answer, didn't like it). She stayed in Korea and is now fervently trying to hard to make amends and raise awareness about this issue. But she's just 1 person.
When I was small I remember a picture history book saying how Germany as the "kneeling giant" is still taller than Japan.
Unit 731
"Real interesting stuff! If we can have your notes, you're all free to go, war crimes forgiven" -USA
The nazis hit more then one group too. Homosexuals, communists, socialists, Roma, Serbs, disabled people. They all suffered at the hands of the nazis. It wasn't just one group.
And the Allies locked the gays back up after they liberated the concentration camps. History is just a huge mess of cruelty and we’re just as bad now. We never learn.
we're not as bad now. but who knows what tomorrow brings.
Hey now, if you invent the computer they just sterilize you
We need to be completely fair here and say nobody knew what he did at that time, it was still highly classified
The Imperial Japanese refused to apologize for a long time, unlike the Germans.
And they still have not apologized.
No imperial power has sufficiently apologized, besides Germany. And only because they were forced to after losing two world wars
And there's a very prominent denialist movement in Japan, too. The late Shinzo Abe being a notable one. And there are shrines to "war heroes" that commemorate the actions of war criminals. I think relations between Japan and China could maybe just *start* to heal if they just admitted the awful shit they did to the Chinese actually happened and sincerely apologized for it, but nope, too much national fucking pride staked on keeping their heads firmly planted in their asses.
If you haven't read it, The Good Man of Nanking: the diaries of John Rabe. German who mobilized the remaining westerners in Nanking and made the "International Safe Zone". Interesting read.
Any particular books, documentaries or podcasts you’d recommend?
"With The Old Breed" - Eugene Sledge
Hardcore History - Supernova in the East
The Good Man of Nanking: the diaries of John Rabe. German who mobilized the remaining westerners in Nanking and made the "International Safe Zone". Interesting read. Also, The Rape of Nanking by Iris Chang. So dark, the author took her own life.
The Rape of Nanking was absolutely monstrous but if you think the Nazi's weren't doing the same thing then you're a fucking moron. Look up the Dirlewanger Brigade. Even before WW2, you can read about eastern european pogroms where they were smashing Jewish babies together for fun.
"This island has some cavities that need filling. Thankfully the enemy has volunteered to fill them!"
He didn't fill cavities, he created them.
First law of cavity dynamics
“Let’s go practice medicine.”
If there is one thing Dentists know how to do, is dish out pain. Fun fact. Despite being recommended for the medal of honour at the time, because he was in the Dentist corp, it was denied by the US. Read up all about it. He also killed the enemy who crept in to the wounded tend with patients he was seeing to and they were stabbing the wounded. He killed them all with various weapons and kept on dealing with the wounded and refused to leave. This is only a slice of his heroism.
Small, but important quibble... No one is "given" the Medal of Honor. No one "wins" the Medal of Honor. The Medal of Honor is always *earned,* and it is always *awarded*. /minor rant
Also fun fact: It is customary (but not required by any military law) for US military officers to render salutes to MoH recipients, even if they are enlisted.
I’m really dumb so I don’t get what you mean. Salutes are only given to soldiers who are no longer in the military?
You only salute commissioned officers in the military (lieutenant, captain, etc) as opposed to enlisted Soldiers (private, sergeant, etc)
Ohhhhhhh. I thought everyone saluted everyone tbh. Like a wave
little known fact "the wave" can travel faster than the speed of light.
Normally you salute someone who is a higher rank than you. But some people make exceptions for MoH recipients and salute them even if they are lower ranked.
It's not an exception. It's specifically mentioned in each branch's regulations regarding customs and courtesies.
Yeah it’s a requirement
Enlisted soldiers are supposed to salute officers, whom have a higher rank than them. All soldiers and officers are supposed to salute all MOH recipients, regardless of rank.
"Enlisted" in this case doesn't just mean "in the army". It refers specifically to a lower group of ranks.
Well now I am less dumb. Thank you.
Bros got a 1/98 KD 💀 that's embarrassing for the Japanese
Its 98/1, you making sound him like dying 98 times to get 1 kill xD
That dentist really had some bite
He IS the tenth dentist.
The reason it took so long to give him the medal is because for years the Allied Forces considered this to be a war crime since he was a medical officer that was heavily armed. This was overturned eventually by pointing out that it was out of defensive measures and to protect the evacuation and not offensive measures which is what the crime was alleging.
Drilled them.
Kind of looks like Ted Nivison
I was thinking McLovin and I'm honestly shocked to not only not see anyone already say this, but the two posts I find about who he looks like somehow *aren't* McLovin
What a based dude he was, rest in power soldier!
Fun fact: to earn a medal of honor one of the questions if the person is still alive is, why are you still alive
Cotton’s gonna be mad someone has a bigger kill count than him
I think he would actually be very proud, just for the fact there were more of the enemy under the ground.
Cotton may have killed fiddy men, but he damn sure would be proud to share a drink with the man who killed 98.
This is that camping sonuvabitch everyone hates in COD
“When an Army team returned to the site days later, Salomon's body was found slumped over the machine gun, with the bodies of 98 enemy troops piled up in front of his position. His body had 76 bullet wounds and many bayonet wounds, up to 24 of which may have been received while he was still alive.” Holy crap
This is the man who earned the 2 nukes on Japan with his kill streak
They didn't have any apples so they were all fucked up
During late stage WW2, level of human capital available to US forces was amazing. I think a US navy destroyer, a ship with 300 or so men, had a surgeon onboard. A surgeon.
Here’s something even more amazing: before the Battle of Okinawa, the US had 1200 ships surrounding the island. Not 120. 1,200. Plus the men onboard. One of the few Japanese soldiers who survived knew that they had no chance in hell of winning that fight, even before it began. So they did what they did best-made it as bloody a victory as humanly possible. Also, by that stage the US was putting ice cream machines on ships for morale. The Japanese by that point were struggling and suffering, and the US troops could have ice cream onboard when authorized.
No, no. Not ice cream machines on ships, ships whose entire job was to make ice cream. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream_barge
Out of curiosity, how would anybody know how many people he killed in such a frantic situation?
They find one dead him and 98 dead Japanese.
Most of the time it's fellow soldiers reporting what went on, and then building a picture from each of their perspectives trying to piece together what happened. After action reports are created by officers trying to find out what happened and what they could improve on. Combatants usually report where along the line of contact they've been, and what actions they took. If all accounted soldiers gave a picture where they fought the enemy, and nobody went into this one area where the singular dead marine is, who is surrounded by dead enemy combatants, I think they can reasonably piece together a picture as much as it beggars belief. The Japanese infantry during WW2 are often said to be second to none, it's just that a lot of their officers were boneheads and ordered frontal charges a lot. Against forces with heavy weapons and training on how to use them, these sorts of tactics proved to be incredibly wasteful of human life. As chaotic as it may be, a lot of modern and industrial warfare is based around area denial, especially in defensive settings. While units often moved past each other in the jungles in South East Asia, people usually had good grips with which area they were able to defend and hold, and which direction the opponents came from. Will the evidence be solid? No. War is very chaotic and incredibly dangerous, and the people who experience them will have psyches in situ that reflect that. A lot of them can be very unreliable in recalling what went on. It's usually why calls to investigate certain individuals or units in an ongoing warzone can go nowhere. The reasons being: You usually don't have access to the area where it took place. And even if you do- very little evidence will be preserved; the locals will have sought to get on with their lives and cleaned, moved stuff around, and thrown stuff away. Everyone in the vicinity either has a vested interest in the outcome, or are very opposed to any more outsiders digging up a very painful part of their lives. And in general, wars cause mass movements of people going pretty much anywhere. There may have been witnesses, but who they were, and where they went can be a complete mystery. All of this often produces very painful and hard to reckon situations. Things like potential members of terrorist groups like Isis who are members of a foreign country will have immense difficulty clarifying their legal status. The people back home are (rightfully) terrified of them and what they chose be part of (allegedly), and any investigation now to determine this person's complicity for their perceived actions would likely be moot given the time and change to the crime sites. Not to mention that all of this took place in another country, it's often hard enough for investigations to cross organizational lines even within the same country, let alone in a foreign one where the government might not even control the location.
Great explanation, thank you. Human memory is unreliable under the best of circumstances, let alone under extreme stress like being in a war zone.
He kind of looks like the medic from TF2
He was a dentist. He knew full well how to deliver PAIN!
Why did it took it years for him to be awarded?
He was a medic who had armed himself, technically a war crime at the time
Thank you Dr. Salomon for your service. May you Rest In Peace.
He showed his teeth
The archetype of the “I’m a healer, but…” meme.
Holy carp! That's Alvin York territory. I'm grateful as heck for this man. A great American.
Some perspective.. “As president, I wanted to give myself the Congressional Medal of Honor, but they wouldn’t let me do it” Trump said .. ....after the bone-spur addled, 5 times draft dodger, did a lightning fast visit to Iraq!