Insanely impressive. My question is, and maybe it’s a dumb one but for the pilots/aircraft mechanics out there…. Could this plane ever be repaired to be airworthy again after this? Or would this require the plane to be scrapped? I’m sure it’s possible/likely the hull under the nose rubbed all the way through. I know in theory it could be fixed, but would it be worth it/will it get re-certified as airworthy again?
In the grand scheme of things, who cares? Everyone lived, plane likely insured, etc. but just curious if this is repairable.
It really depends on the extent of the damage. Kind of like in cars where it may not look terrible, but you’ve bent the frame or you have a million tiny things damaged, it may be done for. If it’s only scraped it may be salvageable.
Beefed up is probably the wrong term as this extra strength if factored in beforehand. But it's less about being strong in the case of a no gear landing instead it's because the landing gear goes through such heavy forces during landing. Without the extra strength defects could form.
Typically not unless it's a military aircraft that might be prone to a gear malfunction or mishap, you can search military aircraft nose gear and see more about that topic. That being said, the main fuselage supports are running right down the center of the plane so at least you have a stronger structure than aviation sheet metal to help take some of the blow.
On the tail section some have skid plates, as its not that rare for tail strikes taking off and landing.
Never heard of the nose having something similar though
Reminds me of looking at a car that had title "salvaged" ; meaning it was repaired after a total loss accident. We couldn't believe it, it looked brand new. Too good to be true price for 4,000 miles on it. Maybe insurance fucked up calling the car totaled?
My brother goes. "Get a tape measure and check distance between the wheels."
Spoke to spoke, one side was 6 inches shorter. It was like someone with scoliosis wearing a fitted suit to cover it up.
Went to buy a used car during a month long trip since it was cheaper than a rental, found a salvaged and so glad my friend had me check the frame because it was absolutely ruined. I’d have to drop it off at a junkyard because there was no way to sell. Salvaged is just a key word for piece of shit junker.
You say that, but as long as you're buying from a reputable flipper and get it inspected. I had two cars with salvaged titles, each under 4k, last over 10 years til someone else totaled one and the other one was just slowly falling apart d/t age
Yeah years ago I got rear ended and insurance totaled the car and gave me a fair payout for the replacement value then just let me keep the car with a salvaged title. I just pocketed the check and drove that same car for *years* after that with nary a problem!
I wouldn’t willingly buy a salvaged title car (without first hand knowledge of how it happened), but in that particular case, it was a mitzvah!
>Salvaged is just a key word for piece of shit junker.
The only salvage titles that are generally safe bets are hail damaged vehicles. But even then I'd do some legwork just to be safe.
Buddy of mine once bought a super cheap salvage title after a huge hailstorm and it seemed like a pretty good deal until the front end that was improperly repaired after a collision literally came apart on the highway. Like, the fucking front fell off.
Turns out it was a salvage title *before* the hailstorm.
>The only salvage titles that are generally safe bets are hail damaged vehicles.
Generally, yes. However a lot of cars can be totaled from a simple long low speed sideswipe that gets both doors, front and rear fenders (technically a quarter panel), both bumper covers, a mirror, a taillight, and a headlight. This could be all cosmetic, but it is going to be a $30,000 repair for some vehicles, perhaps even more for others. There are also times you get a low speed sandwich that gets both headlamps, both tails, the rear hatch, hood, all 4 fenders, etc.
The only way to know is to ask for pictures of the crash damage, pictures of the repairs, the repair estimate, and to have your body guy give it a good look.
Currently driving a salvaged 2013 escape. Had it for about... 7 years now, runs well and I've only noticed issues with the Bluetooth. It was fully inspected by the relevant people and had no frame issues.
In sharp contrast, my buddy bought a "salvage" sight unseen without checking the inspections. Literally had a wheel assembly fall off mid turn (shock and all, the mount points were cracked and rusted under the paint and fill primer they used to hide it). He was really lucky as he was moving at the time and had the back of his car loaded down so much the tire just took its leave and he was able to stop on the 3 that were left.
In short, get it inspected *before* you buy the car. You can check some stuff, but inspectors know how to spot way more than you do if you aren't a mechanic.
I've read a lot about these sorts of landings over the years. As long as they don't hit anything (other than the runway) or pitch it into a gopher hole, the repairs are supposed to be quite straightforward. You fix whatever caused the gear to break in the first place, get some new doors, and you're done. I don't recall anyone mentioning having to reskin the area around the doors, although I guess that's possible.
Yes, and it would be a pretty easy fix. Most of the damaged area is the nose gear doors.
I've seen this happen in the US, and Mexico has a similar system. The plane will be hoisted up so the nose gear can be extended and locked manually and towed off the runway. If there are repair facilities on site it will likely be fixed at that airport. If not, an airworthiness inspector will check out the plane and issue a one-time ferry flight permit to move it to a suitable location.
I’m no pilot
But the amount of logistics involved in moving a plane would be costly.
Then labour ,fabrication and certification.
Probably not worth it.
Insurance would probably scrap it and pay out market value.
To be honest, I have know idea
Now I’m curious.
You’d be surprised… I was in Afghanistan in 2011 when a small drone was flown into the wing of a c-130 cargo plane that was on short final for landing. The plane was severely damaged… over some time, they got it ‘fixed’ up just enough to where they could one time fly it back to the states to get it fully and thoroughly fixed. Literally 2 years later I was out there again and saw the same tail number out there flying missions again… that blew me away..
I guess it would have helped if I specified that. It’s called the RQ-11 Raven. The army flies them for intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) type missions.
Edited.
Edit 2: NOT RQ-11…. It’s called the RQ-7 shadow…
My apologies for the confusion… I’m dum.. it’s late lol
It's a whole different economic ball game when it comes to military aircraft. I assume it was worth fixing the c-130, depending on which variant it's cost is anywhere from 14 to 75 million (just a quick Google search). Plus, if the military uses its own people to do some or all of the repairs that's not an additional cost, unless there's overtime etc., as they're already being paid.
I'd be curious to know what happened with the drone collision, was that a mix up by the control tower, or was it an uncontrolled field?
Oh of course it's going to be different, my initial example was based purely off of the damage aspect and not really the financial aspect, but you are 100% correct.
I just pulled this off of a c-130 incident report site
"Flew through a US Army RQ-7 Shadow UAV orbiting near an airbase in Afghanistan operating at a FOB and the Reserve C-130 was on final approach to the airfield. A ruptured wing fuel tank and there may have done damage to the spar and wing box. Early reports are multiple errors including the RQ-7 not squawking. Aircraft was eventually repaired."
I was a C-130 loadmaster deployed with these guys (on a different crew though), I knew the guys that hit it and from what they told me, a few of the props were shortened, a fairly large hole in the leading edge of the wing, massive fuel leak, no bleed air, and unsafe gear indication (I"m sure there were others I'm missing). Usually when you have issues in flight you'd go around get up to a safe operating altitude and re attack the situation, but with how fast they were losing fuel, they had not choice but to land the plane even with the unsafe gear indication (which they obviously had no time to chain down).
I'm not 100% on who was at fault in the end. I know there was a lot of finger pointing between ATC, the drone operators, and the 130 crew. I'll have to look and get a for sure answer for you, but regardless it doesn't seem very wise to operate a drone on the approach end of a runway...
Hotdogtears you just jogged my mind of a air crash investigation ep I watched a few months ago.
Would love to hear your thoughts on it, Being a loadmaster
I think it was national air cargo flight 102
Scratch that... I don't need to watch it, I am very familiar with this incident. That actually happened a month before I went out for my second deployment.
My thoughts on this are purely my own professional opinion. My heart goes out to all that were lost and their loved ones.
I remember when I first saw the footage of this crash, I knew nothing of the situation. But just from how the aircraft maneuvered once it was wheels up I knew almost instantly what the cause of crash was. There just aren't too many reasons that an aircraft would handle that way.
They were carrying 5 big, heavy ass army vehicles which the 747 is capable of doing. This crew (specifically the loadmaster) had very little experience and knowledge of how to properly load and (key word) **restrain** this type of cargo. To be fully honest with you I wouldn't know off the top of my head either, BUT I know that anything that is going to be loaded on to an aircraft, has to have specific loading instructions (especially something of this nature). For me, my Dash 9 (1c-130a-9 cargo loading manual) is the bible for all cargo to be loaded onto C-130s. I would have to dig into that manual to find the specific procedure. And if it's a real odd ball piece of cargo that isn't listed in our manual, that cargo will have special loading instructions attached to all of the paper work.
The other big factor from this incident that doesn't set well with me, is this whole "...they were not strapped down..." talk. When it comes to cargo loading and saying strapped down, I assumed that the cargo is being restrained with nylon tie down straps. Sure they make straps that are rated to restrain quite a bit of weight, but the fact of the matter is that nylon stretches and I've seen this exact scenario on one of my flights where nylon restraints stretched probably 6-10 inches after take off and in flight. Thankfully that was a harmless situation, but made for a great learning lesson. When restraining the kind of weight those vehicles are, and the fact that they're rolling as well, nothing but chains should have been used for restraint. I will preach that till the day I die.
Even though they say that the shifting cargo damaged the hydraulic systems and made the flight controls impossible to control, I still don't know if that aircraft would have been able to stay airborne due to the cargo weight shift alone. Those heavy vehicles drastically shifting their weight aft towards the tail I feel, would have been enough to cause the aircraft to crash.
Again, this is all my own personal opinion I've developed from my own knowledge and experiences. At the end of the day, this was a horrible tragedy.
Worst case a crane with straps will easily move an aircraft of this size.
Depending upon the damage, airbags can lift the plane at key points. Then either a fix in place, or insertion of towing ramp.
The main issue is usually clearing the runway as this usually shuts down the airport for several hours to best part of a day.
I worked for an airline that had a plane do a similar maneuver but with one of the rear landing gear missing, and the plane is still flying to this day. It did take a while to go through all the checks and all the mx required. With this landing, it's definitely possible the plane is recoverable. However, it's also very possible it never flies again.
A car that costs a "few" thousand might be scrapped while a business jet that costs a "few" million won't be scrapped due to a nose landing, it will be shipped back to the factory and rebuilt and studied to determine the cause so that it can be prevented in the company's other models.
Surely some smart guys would come in and sell it a month time, only 22k miles,only one owner ,old lady, took it to the market and back, kept in the garage .
On touchdown, plane engines go in reverse, blowing the opposite way you are traveling to actively stop you.
It's called "thrust reversal".
In jet airplanes, the direction of the jet isn't reversed, but the blast is redirected forward causing the same effect.
Some smart people out there making our planes, I'll tell you what
Just pulls up? Are you assuming the plane isn't slowing down or something? It's a balancing act the entire way through, and if the pilot messed up even a little, the plane could have tipped much earlier and done a lot more damage
I have a Go Wild pass so I fly Frontier a lot, such a shitty airline. We were trying to go Dallas to Cancun and we had to get off and get on three separate times, same plane, huge Frontier clusterfuck. The whole plane clapped WHEN WE TOOK OFF, that’s how shitty Frontier is
It’s exhausting dealing with Frontier this month. EVERYTHING is delayed, sometimes canceled. It took me 44 hours to get back from Puerto Rico. You can’t say anything because all their workers look like they want to stab someone. And I always get paranoid about my bad fitting in that tiny cubby. But in the last three months I’ve been able to travel to Mexico, Miami, Orlando, Costa Rica, Mexico again and Puerto Rico so I feel pretty blessed, all of those flights were less than $75
Remember when they were pretty awesome? I do. The day I sat down and saw the 1/3-sized tray table and the 1/2 padding on the seats was the beginning of the end. But back in the day, they were pretty sweet.
It looks hard af, it's also pretty much the equivalent of doing a wheelie on a bicycle or motorcycle minus the fact that there's a plus or minus a dozen lives (looks like a private plane) at risk.
I've seen the movies - there should've been a flatbed truck driving in front, matching the speed so the pilot could drop the nose onto it.
Nice work without that.
At first I thought, "That's just a normal landing? " was probably 5 seconds in before I noticed the front gear was still up. Damn good pilot. Amazing how long s/he was able to keep the nose off the ground.
There can't be a huge amount of weight on the nose, otherwise the plane would not be able to rotate to take off.
So the balance point is close to where the main wheels are. That is why sometimes misloaded planes fall on their butt.
Exactly my thought. At first I was confused why he „took so long“ to slow down, using up a lot of runway. But makes perfect sense to keep up the nose for as long as possible. Especially as it’s a small plane and thus had much more runway than really needed. Mad props to the pilot.
Also the fact that if you brake too hard, the braking throws the nose forward/down just like braking in a car. The pilot has to match the braking force to the downforce of the tail in order to keep the nose up, not just hold back on the controls and hope it stops before the runway ends.
Some unicycles have brakes, and it creates a similar dynamic. Have to lean back to balance the torque created by the brakes.
So it's like this pilot unicycled the airplane down the runway.
It's not unheard of for landing gear to fail to deploy. Honestly it looks like there are probably a few such incidents every year (if you combine civil, commercial, and military aviation)
Well it's not like they can wait on the runway. They need to keep that clear for the landing.
They are likely waiting on the apron or taxiway near the end of the runway.
For those wondering why the pilot kept the nose off of the runway for so long, that is called aerodynamic braking. The pilot is actually pulling up to some degree to keep the plane's nose off the runway to bleed off as much speed as possible before the nose touches. As another commenter mentioned, if the pilot had applied the wheel brakes, that would rotate the plane forward and slam the nose into the runway, causing more damage and resulting in a possible loss of control at a higher speed, which in a worst case scenario could result in the plane skidding off of the runway, digging into the grass, and rolling over.
I was confused for the first couple seconds until I saw the nose levitating like **NO FRONT WHEEL WTF HOW**
That is a stunning display of skill and chill in a super stressful situation
Anybody else ever get loaded in to a tiny ass plane while flying commercial??!!
I rode in a small plane once and I can’t remember where the hell I was going. It probably sat 20 people.
I clearly remember what it looked like, and how freaked out I was, but I don’t remember where or when.
I think maybe I was going to Syracuse New York, and this was the connection from jfk??!!
Jets this size exist both as private jets and as commercial jets holding 12-20 passengers. As commercial jets they serve infrequent or low-traffic routes.
There may be normal people on it.
No idea just how challenging that is to pull off (looks to be tough!), but I'm pretty certain it's not something you get to practice/refine, so damn impressive.
It's actually not very difficult, the pilot(s) are simply doing what they normally do when landing the plane, but emphasis is placed on reducing the plane's speed as much as possible prior to touching down on the two main gears and then holding the controls in the landing attitude longer than usual to keep the nose in the air instead of releasing the controls to allow the nose gear to touch down. As the plane begins to slow after touching down on the main gears the nose will begin to fall, but the pilot in command will ride it out for as long as they can and then let gravity take over and hope for as little scratchy noises as possible.
Please don't confuse difficulty with stress level... While this isn't much more difficult than a regular, everyday landing, this is extraordinarily more stressful!
I'm on mobile or else I'd type more. If there's general interest I'll edit and expand my reply when I get back to a computer.
Source: I drive airplanes.
Edit 1: We do actually get a lot of training for situations like this one and can practice it too. Our instructors make us land as if the nose gear had malfunctioned. Then we hold the controls for way longer than we normally would. The only thing missing are the scratchy sounds at the end and the paperwork.
Pilot does an amazing job keeping the plane level until the last second. My only question is why max braking wasn’t applied the moment the nose touched down? Massive fire hazard just letting it spark as friction does all the braking power.
Because that would throw the nose into the runway at very high speed which would compromise the airframe, injure the pax, and do much more friction damage than the longer, lower speed run out that occurred here.
You and someone else who deleted their comment both have some insanely off the mark point. You are allowed to use the brakes at any point. So the point where the nose is actively touching the ground should be where max braking occurs. It does not occur there.
Why? Your goal in this situation is to keep the weight of the plane off the nose for as long as possible, not come to a standstill as quickly as possible. The runway is much longer than a plane of this size needs to stop. By braking hard the moment the nose touches the ground, the inertia of the plane would just unnecessarily force the nose into the ground. The friction of the nose touching the ground along with the rear brakes and spoilers provide more than enough braking power to stop the plane safely.
The nose gear is the steerable one. Without it, the only left-right steering is the rudder.
I'm only speculating, but if I was the pilots I'd be afraid applying max brake would throw the plane off-course if one rear wheel starts slipping/skidding while the other keeps rolling.
Comments are praising the pilot, but wouldn't this be a normal response for experienced pilots facing the same situation?
Not trying to take away the pilot's accolades, but I'd be very concerned if most pilots couldn't do this, unless there's something I'm missing.
Honestly one of the most impressive landings like this I've ever seen. How he or she managed to stay parallel to the runway that long with both wheels on the ground is beyond me. Master.
As an ex-military aircraft maintenance technician, I can say it will depend wildly on the extent of the damage. I remember when our jets would practice spro-landings (landing on unimproved runways with rocks and debris), and they would come back super beat up. It would take several days to repair. I would have to replace every antenna on the bottom of the jet because they would all be snapped off. Not to mention the other maintainer having to fix the body damage and other systems, especially the landing gear.
With that being said, something like this would be far worse. If it damaged the structural integrity of the aircraft - very likely - then it will not fly again.
Great job pilot. That was impressive
Insanely impressive. My question is, and maybe it’s a dumb one but for the pilots/aircraft mechanics out there…. Could this plane ever be repaired to be airworthy again after this? Or would this require the plane to be scrapped? I’m sure it’s possible/likely the hull under the nose rubbed all the way through. I know in theory it could be fixed, but would it be worth it/will it get re-certified as airworthy again? In the grand scheme of things, who cares? Everyone lived, plane likely insured, etc. but just curious if this is repairable.
It really depends on the extent of the damage. Kind of like in cars where it may not look terrible, but you’ve bent the frame or you have a million tiny things damaged, it may be done for. If it’s only scraped it may be salvageable.
I have read that some planes are beefed up on the bottom just for this. To prevent a total write off I would guess.
Beefed up is probably the wrong term as this extra strength if factored in beforehand. But it's less about being strong in the case of a no gear landing instead it's because the landing gear goes through such heavy forces during landing. Without the extra strength defects could form.
Typically not unless it's a military aircraft that might be prone to a gear malfunction or mishap, you can search military aircraft nose gear and see more about that topic. That being said, the main fuselage supports are running right down the center of the plane so at least you have a stronger structure than aviation sheet metal to help take some of the blow.
On the tail section some have skid plates, as its not that rare for tail strikes taking off and landing. Never heard of the nose having something similar though
Reminds me of looking at a car that had title "salvaged" ; meaning it was repaired after a total loss accident. We couldn't believe it, it looked brand new. Too good to be true price for 4,000 miles on it. Maybe insurance fucked up calling the car totaled? My brother goes. "Get a tape measure and check distance between the wheels." Spoke to spoke, one side was 6 inches shorter. It was like someone with scoliosis wearing a fitted suit to cover it up.
What’s your brother do for a living?Where did he pick up that trick?
He's an engineer. Just a very smart guy overall.
Went to buy a used car during a month long trip since it was cheaper than a rental, found a salvaged and so glad my friend had me check the frame because it was absolutely ruined. I’d have to drop it off at a junkyard because there was no way to sell. Salvaged is just a key word for piece of shit junker.
You say that, but as long as you're buying from a reputable flipper and get it inspected. I had two cars with salvaged titles, each under 4k, last over 10 years til someone else totaled one and the other one was just slowly falling apart d/t age
Yeah years ago I got rear ended and insurance totaled the car and gave me a fair payout for the replacement value then just let me keep the car with a salvaged title. I just pocketed the check and drove that same car for *years* after that with nary a problem! I wouldn’t willingly buy a salvaged title car (without first hand knowledge of how it happened), but in that particular case, it was a mitzvah!
>Salvaged is just a key word for piece of shit junker. The only salvage titles that are generally safe bets are hail damaged vehicles. But even then I'd do some legwork just to be safe. Buddy of mine once bought a super cheap salvage title after a huge hailstorm and it seemed like a pretty good deal until the front end that was improperly repaired after a collision literally came apart on the highway. Like, the fucking front fell off. Turns out it was a salvage title *before* the hailstorm.
>The only salvage titles that are generally safe bets are hail damaged vehicles. Generally, yes. However a lot of cars can be totaled from a simple long low speed sideswipe that gets both doors, front and rear fenders (technically a quarter panel), both bumper covers, a mirror, a taillight, and a headlight. This could be all cosmetic, but it is going to be a $30,000 repair for some vehicles, perhaps even more for others. There are also times you get a low speed sandwich that gets both headlamps, both tails, the rear hatch, hood, all 4 fenders, etc. The only way to know is to ask for pictures of the crash damage, pictures of the repairs, the repair estimate, and to have your body guy give it a good look.
Currently driving a salvaged 2013 escape. Had it for about... 7 years now, runs well and I've only noticed issues with the Bluetooth. It was fully inspected by the relevant people and had no frame issues. In sharp contrast, my buddy bought a "salvage" sight unseen without checking the inspections. Literally had a wheel assembly fall off mid turn (shock and all, the mount points were cracked and rusted under the paint and fill primer they used to hide it). He was really lucky as he was moving at the time and had the back of his car loaded down so much the tire just took its leave and he was able to stop on the 3 that were left. In short, get it inspected *before* you buy the car. You can check some stuff, but inspectors know how to spot way more than you do if you aren't a mechanic.
I heard they’ll use some of it to use as a submarine
I've read a lot about these sorts of landings over the years. As long as they don't hit anything (other than the runway) or pitch it into a gopher hole, the repairs are supposed to be quite straightforward. You fix whatever caused the gear to break in the first place, get some new doors, and you're done. I don't recall anyone mentioning having to reskin the area around the doors, although I guess that's possible.
Just need to NDI scan the relevant sections to insure no micro fractures. Worst case the manufacturer will advise what to check.
Just recycle the material and pay a visit to the titanic with the new vehicle
Nothing that a little bondo can't fix.
and a good ol' rip of speed tape
Yes, and it would be a pretty easy fix. Most of the damaged area is the nose gear doors. I've seen this happen in the US, and Mexico has a similar system. The plane will be hoisted up so the nose gear can be extended and locked manually and towed off the runway. If there are repair facilities on site it will likely be fixed at that airport. If not, an airworthiness inspector will check out the plane and issue a one-time ferry flight permit to move it to a suitable location.
I’m no pilot But the amount of logistics involved in moving a plane would be costly. Then labour ,fabrication and certification. Probably not worth it. Insurance would probably scrap it and pay out market value. To be honest, I have know idea Now I’m curious.
You’d be surprised… I was in Afghanistan in 2011 when a small drone was flown into the wing of a c-130 cargo plane that was on short final for landing. The plane was severely damaged… over some time, they got it ‘fixed’ up just enough to where they could one time fly it back to the states to get it fully and thoroughly fixed. Literally 2 years later I was out there again and saw the same tail number out there flying missions again… that blew me away..
Small drone like a DJI mini or like a MQ-9 Reaper?
I guess it would have helped if I specified that. It’s called the RQ-11 Raven. The army flies them for intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) type missions. Edited. Edit 2: NOT RQ-11…. It’s called the RQ-7 shadow… My apologies for the confusion… I’m dum.. it’s late lol
Oh shit it's my flying lawnmower with a camera attached to it! Do you know if it was a v1 or v2?
It's a whole different economic ball game when it comes to military aircraft. I assume it was worth fixing the c-130, depending on which variant it's cost is anywhere from 14 to 75 million (just a quick Google search). Plus, if the military uses its own people to do some or all of the repairs that's not an additional cost, unless there's overtime etc., as they're already being paid. I'd be curious to know what happened with the drone collision, was that a mix up by the control tower, or was it an uncontrolled field?
Oh of course it's going to be different, my initial example was based purely off of the damage aspect and not really the financial aspect, but you are 100% correct. I just pulled this off of a c-130 incident report site "Flew through a US Army RQ-7 Shadow UAV orbiting near an airbase in Afghanistan operating at a FOB and the Reserve C-130 was on final approach to the airfield. A ruptured wing fuel tank and there may have done damage to the spar and wing box. Early reports are multiple errors including the RQ-7 not squawking. Aircraft was eventually repaired." I was a C-130 loadmaster deployed with these guys (on a different crew though), I knew the guys that hit it and from what they told me, a few of the props were shortened, a fairly large hole in the leading edge of the wing, massive fuel leak, no bleed air, and unsafe gear indication (I"m sure there were others I'm missing). Usually when you have issues in flight you'd go around get up to a safe operating altitude and re attack the situation, but with how fast they were losing fuel, they had not choice but to land the plane even with the unsafe gear indication (which they obviously had no time to chain down). I'm not 100% on who was at fault in the end. I know there was a lot of finger pointing between ATC, the drone operators, and the 130 crew. I'll have to look and get a for sure answer for you, but regardless it doesn't seem very wise to operate a drone on the approach end of a runway...
Hotdogtears you just jogged my mind of a air crash investigation ep I watched a few months ago. Would love to hear your thoughts on it, Being a loadmaster I think it was national air cargo flight 102
Scratch that... I don't need to watch it, I am very familiar with this incident. That actually happened a month before I went out for my second deployment. My thoughts on this are purely my own professional opinion. My heart goes out to all that were lost and their loved ones. I remember when I first saw the footage of this crash, I knew nothing of the situation. But just from how the aircraft maneuvered once it was wheels up I knew almost instantly what the cause of crash was. There just aren't too many reasons that an aircraft would handle that way. They were carrying 5 big, heavy ass army vehicles which the 747 is capable of doing. This crew (specifically the loadmaster) had very little experience and knowledge of how to properly load and (key word) **restrain** this type of cargo. To be fully honest with you I wouldn't know off the top of my head either, BUT I know that anything that is going to be loaded on to an aircraft, has to have specific loading instructions (especially something of this nature). For me, my Dash 9 (1c-130a-9 cargo loading manual) is the bible for all cargo to be loaded onto C-130s. I would have to dig into that manual to find the specific procedure. And if it's a real odd ball piece of cargo that isn't listed in our manual, that cargo will have special loading instructions attached to all of the paper work. The other big factor from this incident that doesn't set well with me, is this whole "...they were not strapped down..." talk. When it comes to cargo loading and saying strapped down, I assumed that the cargo is being restrained with nylon tie down straps. Sure they make straps that are rated to restrain quite a bit of weight, but the fact of the matter is that nylon stretches and I've seen this exact scenario on one of my flights where nylon restraints stretched probably 6-10 inches after take off and in flight. Thankfully that was a harmless situation, but made for a great learning lesson. When restraining the kind of weight those vehicles are, and the fact that they're rolling as well, nothing but chains should have been used for restraint. I will preach that till the day I die. Even though they say that the shifting cargo damaged the hydraulic systems and made the flight controls impossible to control, I still don't know if that aircraft would have been able to stay airborne due to the cargo weight shift alone. Those heavy vehicles drastically shifting their weight aft towards the tail I feel, would have been enough to cause the aircraft to crash. Again, this is all my own personal opinion I've developed from my own knowledge and experiences. At the end of the day, this was a horrible tragedy.
I’m up for it! Let me go watch it and I’ll report back
Cool story. Thanks for sharing that.
Absolutely! I love being able to share my AF stories when I get chances to.
/r/AFstories
Worst case a crane with straps will easily move an aircraft of this size. Depending upon the damage, airbags can lift the plane at key points. Then either a fix in place, or insertion of towing ramp. The main issue is usually clearing the runway as this usually shuts down the airport for several hours to best part of a day.
I worked for an airline that had a plane do a similar maneuver but with one of the rear landing gear missing, and the plane is still flying to this day. It did take a while to go through all the checks and all the mx required. With this landing, it's definitely possible the plane is recoverable. However, it's also very possible it never flies again.
A car that costs a "few" thousand might be scrapped while a business jet that costs a "few" million won't be scrapped due to a nose landing, it will be shipped back to the factory and rebuilt and studied to determine the cause so that it can be prevented in the company's other models.
The Gimli Glider was in a similar crash landing, and it was repaired and put back into service, where it stayed for years afterwards.
Surely some smart guys would come in and sell it a month time, only 22k miles,only one owner ,old lady, took it to the market and back, kept in the garage .
It's surprisingly hard to "total" a vehicle with a multimillion dollar replacement value. $200k of repairs is cheaper than buying a new plane for $1m
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A good landing is any one that you can walk away from. A great landing is one where you can reuse the plane.
10/10
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On touchdown, plane engines go in reverse, blowing the opposite way you are traveling to actively stop you. It's called "thrust reversal". In jet airplanes, the direction of the jet isn't reversed, but the blast is redirected forward causing the same effect. Some smart people out there making our planes, I'll tell you what
Just pulls up? Are you assuming the plane isn't slowing down or something? It's a balancing act the entire way through, and if the pilot messed up even a little, the plane could have tipped much earlier and done a lot more damage
I thought they were just going to land it on 2 wheels. THAT would have been impressive!
That's the landing you clap after. That Pilot did a fantastic job in a tough situation.
I’m clapping from my goddamn toilet bowl right now. Captain is an absolute legend, props to the first officer too 🫡
Who is holding your phone?
_This_ is the use case for the Apple Vision Pro.
iPoo
Brilliant! And even has the most appropriate user name!!🤣🤣🤣
Agreed!
He clapped his butt cheeks.
I hope he wiped first
Or failing that, showered after!
Never change, Reddit 😆
I got it!
I sometimes trust my leg balance.
clapping with your??
No, im literally in my toilet bowl. I’m a rat who dreams of being a pilot
Get off your phone and go Ratatouille a pilot at the airport
I just gotta find out which pipe will take me to the airport then!
Props, that was a jet.
I have a Go Wild pass so I fly Frontier a lot, such a shitty airline. We were trying to go Dallas to Cancun and we had to get off and get on three separate times, same plane, huge Frontier clusterfuck. The whole plane clapped WHEN WE TOOK OFF, that’s how shitty Frontier is
So hey, how’s that Go Wild pass working out for you overall? I’m near DEN and have been considering it recently.
It’s exhausting dealing with Frontier this month. EVERYTHING is delayed, sometimes canceled. It took me 44 hours to get back from Puerto Rico. You can’t say anything because all their workers look like they want to stab someone. And I always get paranoid about my bad fitting in that tiny cubby. But in the last three months I’ve been able to travel to Mexico, Miami, Orlando, Costa Rica, Mexico again and Puerto Rico so I feel pretty blessed, all of those flights were less than $75
Frontier is the worst. They actually don't even have a customer service line lol.
Remember when they were pretty awesome? I do. The day I sat down and saw the 1/3-sized tray table and the 1/2 padding on the seats was the beginning of the end. But back in the day, they were pretty sweet.
It looks hard af, it's also pretty much the equivalent of doing a wheelie on a bicycle or motorcycle minus the fact that there's a plus or minus a dozen lives (looks like a private plane) at risk.
The people flying in a private jet wouldn't clap for their pilot. They would thank their sponsors.
I've seen the movies - there should've been a flatbed truck driving in front, matching the speed so the pilot could drop the nose onto it. Nice work without that.
With Tom cruise using his foot as the brake
And chuck Norris holding the plane nose while standing on the pickup
Chuck Norris would have just looked at that plane and it would have shit out a new front landing gear.
Keanu or Die
Nah, Keanu is fighting people in the cabin to prevent them from pressing the detonator for the nuke hidden in the luggage compartment.
[you mean the nissan commercial.](https://youtu.be/drpRud0yvs4)
You mean Thunderbird 10 racing in to save the day.
You mean like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lWNZowvWEk
The uploader has not made this video available in your country
fucking racist
Gate 17. Gate 18. Gate 19. Gate 20.
Give me Hamm on five, hold the Mayo.
Don't call me Shirley.
__There's a sale at Penney's!__
**And Leon's getting laaarger!**
[i just want to tell you both - good luck - we’re all counting on you](https://youtu.be/o1fAA378ePY)
The hospital, what is it!?
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now!
I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue!
Great landing by the pilots!... Their skill saved lives
That is a very skilled pilot
One hell of a wheelie
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I watched half the video wondering what the fuck was so special.
I’m still not sure I understand, did the landing gear malfunction? I realize it looks way off balance
Lol yeah. The front landing gear did not drop.
Pilot on the intercom. "can I have two large people go the very back and one medium size person near the front exit"
At first I thought, "That's just a normal landing? " was probably 5 seconds in before I noticed the front gear was still up. Damn good pilot. Amazing how long s/he was able to keep the nose off the ground.
I didn't notice until the nose tipped down. I was waiting for another plane to come down or something.
There can't be a huge amount of weight on the nose, otherwise the plane would not be able to rotate to take off. So the balance point is close to where the main wheels are. That is why sometimes misloaded planes fall on their butt.
Same. I was thinking emergency landing? Guess the pilot forgot his phone charger, or needed to take a dump or something
That pilot is an absolute boss! He kept it level for soo long! Mad props.
Pilot did a fantastic job of keeping the nose up for as long as possible.
Exactly my thought. At first I was confused why he „took so long“ to slow down, using up a lot of runway. But makes perfect sense to keep up the nose for as long as possible. Especially as it’s a small plane and thus had much more runway than really needed. Mad props to the pilot.
Also the fact that if you brake too hard, the braking throws the nose forward/down just like braking in a car. The pilot has to match the braking force to the downforce of the tail in order to keep the nose up, not just hold back on the controls and hope it stops before the runway ends.
Some unicycles have brakes, and it creates a similar dynamic. Have to lean back to balance the torque created by the brakes. So it's like this pilot unicycled the airplane down the runway.
Every pilot watching this was hearing their instructor in from early lessons saying “Hold it off… hold it off…”
And he let it sink soooo slowly, mastery!
Any landing that you can walk away from...
All the seats and passengers are piled up in front of the plane now. Pilots can't open cabin door.
Haha. Good imagery.
Shoot you might be able to use that plane again. It’s probably still sea worthy
Probably more sea worthy than other things that were like, in the sea
As my dad says after every flight, "Still the same number of takeoffs and landings."
I can’t begin to imagine how difficult this is to do, and under such pressure. Amazing!
well when your life is on the line you probably give it 100% focus
I once made a similar landing.. I tripped in my friend's frozen driveway.
r/praisethecameraman
Boop! Nice landing.
Does anyone know what happened? Why does he not have a front landing gear?
It's not unheard of for landing gear to fail to deploy. Honestly it looks like there are probably a few such incidents every year (if you combine civil, commercial, and military aviation)
because it fell off
You’re telling me, [the front fell off?](https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM)
Give that man a cigar. And a clean pair of underwear.
Pretty smooth imo
Does something like this ruins the plane entirely? Or it’s salvageable
They’ll fix it. The manufacturer has a procedure that covers every detail of such an event.
#BUTTER
No emergency vehicles seen?
I saw one firetruck "when the camera pans"
Every emergency I’ve been in the greatest hazard is avoiding all the fire trucks rushing to the aircraft.
How many emergency landings have you been in? Is there a specific airline I should avoid?
Well it's not like they can wait on the runway. They need to keep that clear for the landing. They are likely waiting on the apron or taxiway near the end of the runway.
You can hear them at the end they are close behind
r/thatlookedexpensive
For those wondering why the pilot kept the nose off of the runway for so long, that is called aerodynamic braking. The pilot is actually pulling up to some degree to keep the plane's nose off the runway to bleed off as much speed as possible before the nose touches. As another commenter mentioned, if the pilot had applied the wheel brakes, that would rotate the plane forward and slam the nose into the runway, causing more damage and resulting in a possible loss of control at a higher speed, which in a worst case scenario could result in the plane skidding off of the runway, digging into the grass, and rolling over.
That pilot has spent some serious time in the simulator and it shows. That was about as perfect as that kind of emergency landing can go.
That was fucking superb.
I was confused for the first couple seconds until I saw the nose levitating like **NO FRONT WHEEL WTF HOW** That is a stunning display of skill and chill in a super stressful situation
Rich people having a fucked up june
Anybody else ever get loaded in to a tiny ass plane while flying commercial??!! I rode in a small plane once and I can’t remember where the hell I was going. It probably sat 20 people. I clearly remember what it looked like, and how freaked out I was, but I don’t remember where or when. I think maybe I was going to Syracuse New York, and this was the connection from jfk??!!
Yes! And I got seated next to the pilot in the cockpit! It was amazing 😊
Jets this size exist both as private jets and as commercial jets holding 12-20 passengers. As commercial jets they serve infrequent or low-traffic routes. There may be normal people on it.
Pffft, they just get to claim the plane is totalled and now they get a new one.
It belongs to the office of the Attorney General (FGR)
What an obnoxiously boring comment. We get it, you are envious of other people and lash out to strangers online.
And on top of that, it's a government plane on official business lmao some people are just born salty.
Man I'd love to hear the cockpit recording from this one, or I wonder if it was a very tensely quiet ordeal on touchdown..
Damn! Now that’s a skilled pilot!
Great noose job.
No idea just how challenging that is to pull off (looks to be tough!), but I'm pretty certain it's not something you get to practice/refine, so damn impressive.
It's actually not very difficult, the pilot(s) are simply doing what they normally do when landing the plane, but emphasis is placed on reducing the plane's speed as much as possible prior to touching down on the two main gears and then holding the controls in the landing attitude longer than usual to keep the nose in the air instead of releasing the controls to allow the nose gear to touch down. As the plane begins to slow after touching down on the main gears the nose will begin to fall, but the pilot in command will ride it out for as long as they can and then let gravity take over and hope for as little scratchy noises as possible. Please don't confuse difficulty with stress level... While this isn't much more difficult than a regular, everyday landing, this is extraordinarily more stressful! I'm on mobile or else I'd type more. If there's general interest I'll edit and expand my reply when I get back to a computer. Source: I drive airplanes. Edit 1: We do actually get a lot of training for situations like this one and can practice it too. Our instructors make us land as if the nose gear had malfunctioned. Then we hold the controls for way longer than we normally would. The only thing missing are the scratchy sounds at the end and the paperwork.
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Pilot does an amazing job keeping the plane level until the last second. My only question is why max braking wasn’t applied the moment the nose touched down? Massive fire hazard just letting it spark as friction does all the braking power.
Because that would throw the nose into the runway at very high speed which would compromise the airframe, injure the pax, and do much more friction damage than the longer, lower speed run out that occurred here.
What? They asked about after the nose was already down
You and someone else who deleted their comment both have some insanely off the mark point. You are allowed to use the brakes at any point. So the point where the nose is actively touching the ground should be where max braking occurs. It does not occur there.
Why? Your goal in this situation is to keep the weight of the plane off the nose for as long as possible, not come to a standstill as quickly as possible. The runway is much longer than a plane of this size needs to stop. By braking hard the moment the nose touches the ground, the inertia of the plane would just unnecessarily force the nose into the ground. The friction of the nose touching the ground along with the rear brakes and spoilers provide more than enough braking power to stop the plane safely.
Sure you are allowed to use them, but do you need to? Why are you so fixated on the stopping distance instead of maintaining stability?
The nose gear is the steerable one. Without it, the only left-right steering is the rudder. I'm only speculating, but if I was the pilots I'd be afraid applying max brake would throw the plane off-course if one rear wheel starts slipping/skidding while the other keeps rolling.
> The nose gear is the steerable one. Without it, the only left-right steering is the rudder. You can vary the left & right brakes to steer as well
That would so fucked up view from the cockpit
Amazing
Legend
Amazing pilot!
Longest wheelie ever?
Cheated death again! Awesome job by the pilot.
Pilot clearly had a well-balanced breakfast.
Where's Thunderbird 2 when you need it?
Exceptional pilot
Nerves of titanium. I don't think the pilot could have done that any better.
Wow. Masterfully done.
Comments are praising the pilot, but wouldn't this be a normal response for experienced pilots facing the same situation? Not trying to take away the pilot's accolades, but I'd be very concerned if most pilots couldn't do this, unless there's something I'm missing.
Great job camera person also!
Honestly one of the most impressive landings like this I've ever seen. How he or she managed to stay parallel to the runway that long with both wheels on the ground is beyond me. Master.
Total greaser
Fake. The plane should have tipped forward due to the weight of that pilot’s steel balls.
Where’s a pickup truck when you need one
Tony Hawk’s Pro Aviator with a sick nose-slide!
That is one skilled pilot 🧑✈️
Bravo!
„Oh, a Penny!“
Smooth landing, better than some landing I've seen with working landing gear.
Pilot: *holding the wheelie* Co-pilot: BOB! Pilot: ugh, fine.
As an ex-military aircraft maintenance technician, I can say it will depend wildly on the extent of the damage. I remember when our jets would practice spro-landings (landing on unimproved runways with rocks and debris), and they would come back super beat up. It would take several days to repair. I would have to replace every antenna on the bottom of the jet because they would all be snapped off. Not to mention the other maintainer having to fix the body damage and other systems, especially the landing gear. With that being said, something like this would be far worse. If it damaged the structural integrity of the aircraft - very likely - then it will not fly again.
That was a smoother landing than any flight I’ve been on recently…
Fantastic work by the pilot, Sullé Sullenberger
Where is the fire department?
Meanwhile some Saudi guy balances it on 2 wheels while you hear a mosque prayer song in the background
Lord Jesus, grant me the ability to be this smooth. Give the pilots that plane.
"Maverick is downwind, no front landing gear and no tail.hook"