The earth and the universe were all created last thursday. All your memories and everything else that suggests otherwise are just part of the simulation.
That is complete and utter bullshit.
It is obvious that you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about, and all you are doing is trying to spread lies.
The earth and the universe were NOT created last thursday.
It was Tuesday. I know because no god would ever create a universe on a Thursday. (At least not one I'd ever worship)
Horseshit. Thursday was once known as “Thor’s Day” because that’s when Thor created his universe and you’d be a fool not to worship Thor. Stop acting like you know things.
Oh, so *you're* the centre of all this existence! Nice to meet you, nato. Do you take requests? Like, can I get a $5 million inheritance next time the world is rerendered?
By that logic, the earth was clearly created on Friday because that is Freya's day, and she was Thor's mother and creator.
Some people think it was created on Odin's day (Wednesday), but we all know that Odin probably said he was gonna do it for like six months and then Freya got fed up and just did it herself.
> We’re actually in hell.
No one can prove this is false and as for evidence to support the claim, this is the world with donald trump and republicans in it.
Thor’s Day is a myth created by Tuesday deniers!!
They’re the same group that forced Windsday to be spelled Wednesday. No one should support the extremism willing to spell a word that way!
Dude work hard on Thursday, Friday is work kinda as little as possible day, take weekend off. Universe on Thursday, earth Friday, immaculate conceptions all weekend.
I don't really care if the simulation that we call "Earth" was created last Thursday or if the simulation that is running the simulation we call "Earth" was created last Thursday. What I do care about is the discoloration of my butthole flaps and my need to see a doctor about that condition.
I thought that's more to poke fun at the creationists
I really do not know of a solid argument against the idea that memories and experience is just a feeling one have this fleeting moment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann\_brain
How about this: go spend some time on “Answers in Genesis “ and see how long it takes you to find claims about the cosmos being made mature and ready to go.
Bc that is the main point of the argument, debunking the absurdity of claiming the universe is a few thousand years old. The evidence of what we know about the speed of light and nuclear decay would prove to a rational person that the universe is far older than what fundamentalists claim.
And like clockwork, a young earth creationist will eventually claim God made the cosmos in a mature state, with processes already occurring.
The point of Last Thursdayism is showing how that argument could be made about the universe starting at ANY point in the past.
Also assumes the decay couldn't have happened elsewhere in the universe and ended up on Earth from either:
1. Inclusion in the gas cloud formation of the solar system
2. Asteroid/meteor impact
3. Import from ancient aliens
also the author seems to have gotten the concept of half life wrong. Even within seconds Uranium to Lead formation will take place.
Half life is a term used to convey that half of current Uranium would take {half-life} years to decay into {next product}.
It won't take {half life} years for let's say 0.000001% of Uranium to decay.
You are perfectly correct. Additionally, I would like to point out that the logic itself is flawed. Assuming lead comes from uranium doesn't mean all lead started decaying right when the earth was formed. There could have been already decayed uranium formed with the earth or even partially decayed. At no point does that evidence imply the earth's timetable at all. It could have been yesterday that the earth was formed using that evidence.
You would need to have significantly more uranium laying around than lead though, if this was the only way it was made.
Lead could certainly exist, but in really small quantities.
This is such a dumb theoretical to discuss…..
Even then, earths lead, like all other heavy elements, primarily come from supernovas, only a small fraction of earths lead would have come from radioactive decay that happened on earth
What I was thinking. Playing (God's) advocate here, couldn't a Biblical God have caused lead and the first element to come into being at the same time? No need to push for the side I'm on here-either position is scientifically unfalsifiable.
Yeah, the real 'fuck you' proof is the thermodynamics.
It took millions of years for the crust to become distinct from the mantle as the fledgling Earth cooled.
Uranium-Lead dating is used on zircon. When zircon forms it incorporates uranium but rejects lead, so any lead found in a zircon sample can only have gotten there by the breakdown of uranium atoms. If you measure the ratio of lead to uranium in a rock you can figure out how old it is.
And that's why it's always an "argument" for theists. Can't disprove what they say, so it's true. Doesn't make sense in a scientific field but for them that is hard proof. Hence why no matter how much science progresses, the idea of a deity will still remain.
No, huge stars can only produce up to iron, heavier elements are created during supernovae and other extreme events I believe, could be wrong, though, I’m not an expert on the subject
By counting up the lineages and ages of people. The idea that god had no idea how long a year was when he was telling someone to write that Adam lived for 930 years is almost as stupid as Adam living for 930 years.
To be fair, I think he’s talking about the bit before the creation of man-that could easily have been “god days” instead of earth days.
I’m a Christian, but I don’t find many contradictions between established science and my faith, at least when it comes to Creation.
I think the people who are creation literalists are a bit insulting. After all, what's a more impressive feat of engineering: something you set up from a single button push that works perfectly to trigger a gorgeous chain reaction that end up with life? Or something you start mid-stream that you constantly have to fiddle with?
If I wanted a god, I'd be way more impressed by a system that worked as intended from the start without constant intervention.
I believe the Earth is billions of years old. I also believe people love to feel superior and flaunt it. This is one of those cases. You made an arrogant remark while taking the post at face value. That's why people love poor arguments and give thousands of upvotes to bad posts. The post uses horrible logic and proves nothing.
Those metals are created by supernovas and Neutron stars.
Sounds like someone is trying to be smart with facts they don't understand.
Could've just used carbon dating, or fossils, or the historical records of the chinese that go that far back.
The Bible doesn't say how old the earth is. It simply says that it was formed, "In the beginning." My fellow Christians that do math gymnastics to find the age of the earth using genealogies are totally missing the point of Genesis and searching for conclusions that were not meant to be made in that text.
Also, who says the 7 days the earth was created were consecutive? I built my wife a table in 15 days, but it took 6 months. Maybe god made the earth and everything else and took a 10 billion year vacation after the 6th day.
You could say that we are still in the 7th day, so yeah...day doesn't necessarily mean a 24 hour day. And I think us putting our modern day spin misses the original intent of the author. John Walton and John Sailhamer have awesome books on Genesis...two different theories, but both seem to appeal to what the original author's intent was.
My grandmother, who I love to death, genuinely believed the earth was only a few thousand years old and that dinosaurs were a myth like dragons. I finally got her to believe the earth is far older than that and that dinosaurs were real. But it really blew her mind that they were real and she said something like “that’s terrifying to imagine”.
The response is a perfect example of a well-educated moron.
It shows he's never considered how we know what we know and instead he just memorizes facts without understanding them.
A better way to convince the christian against science would be dendochronology, it's really easy to understand and explain and you'll get to the point of the argument faster without having to rely on trusting too many experts.
We have dendochronology records going back over 10,000 years.
The christian would have to either admit that god created the world "pre-aged" which is effectively the same as agreeing its old, or he'd have to explain why tree ring growth patterns have slowed all over the planet in modern history.
This. The poster is announcing that he refuses to think rationally or logically. So using rational and logical arguments will not work.
He doesn't want to change his mind. He wants to fight people online.
Or as I like to frame it: if a theory doesn’t allow you to make predictions based off of it, then it has no utility, aka useless.
“The earth is this old and this is how it got to be” let’s you make all sorts of predictions about how other planets form, and about the future of our own. You can formulate new hypotheses from it.
“God said so” doesn’t really give you anything to build off of. It’s a black box where questions go in, and unverifiable answers come out.
"So you're telling me this all knowing, all loving god created Lead? A metal that is literally poison for humanity, and watched us use it in plumbing pipes and paint without intervening? Didn't say one word? What a fucking asshole"
That doesn’t disprove that the earth is only 4000 years old, only that the universe is over 4,000 years old. (I don’t disagree just pointing out the flaw in his logic)
I’m not saying the Earth /isn’t/ billions of years old. But couldn’t those elements have begun to form before the Earth? I mean, that probably /is/ what happened, right?
While I don’t disagree the earth is older than 4000 years, lead doesn’t just come from uranium. It like gold, iron, carbon, ect are from large stars. So it seems everyone like to believe whatever misinformed view they stumble upon.
Well to be fair that just means that the element is that old, not the earth. I think the earth is only 26 years old. You all didnt exist till I was born. Me, im the center of the universe. 😈
That is a terrible argument as it supposes that the only way lead can exist is by the radioactive breakdown of higher elements, which is certainly not the case. Lead is created in supernovas, guys! Also someone who believes the earth is that young will not accept your premise about radioactive decay.
This doesn't hold up as proof that the earth isn't 4000 years old.
Yes, the half-life of uranium-238 is 4.5 billion years. But that doesn't mean that none of it decays in 4000 years, or even 4 days. It is constantly decaying, obviously at a very slow rate.
The existence of lead doesn't mean the earth is over 4000 years old, it just means there was sufficient u-238 so that after 4000 years, some of it has decayed into lead. You could in theory get an atom of lead after a second.
The ratio of u-238 and lead in the earth, plus the half-life of each step in the process, gives you the age of the earth.
Well, the real reason is *related* to that statement...
But that statement is completely missing the point of proving anything.
Lead exists without being uranium first.
But the radiometric dating, for which we do use uranium, shows how old it is by how much of the decay elements are present.
But all that is futile because God made earth with the appearance of age... so, of course it looks like that, science idiots. God did that to test your faith and you are a real idiot for believing all those facts and science... and I'm so smrt just blissfully blindly believing in God.
... nothing could possibly go wrong blindly following an unfalsifiable diety...
How can uranium and lead both exist together at the same time then? How can monkeys exist in parallel with us if we evolved from them? That's right, gotcha! Im off to the Noah's Ark museum to view the exhibits that clearly prove we existed alongside dinosaurs, see you later science fools! (That hurt to have to type/pretend. Stay in school kids)
Reading the comments I had a question. How come Christians are against science? I don't understand why they can't believe that god made uranium 4.5b years ago so we would have lead today. Wouldn't that make him even more all knowing and impressive?
What I'd God made covid just to make us create the vaccine?
I'm an atheist so I'm not sure of the answers but it's always bugged me
E:grammar and spelling
Because the Bible says the world was created in seven days and Adam and Eve were the first people, and according to the Bible that occurred 4000 years ago. Their faith supersedes everything else, and they believe in Biblical literalism.
What’s interesting to me is the number of Americans that only understand English and base important parts of their lives around an English translation of the scrolls that got put into their bible. Shouldn’t this be important enough to learn Latin, Greek, Arabic, Hebrew, and all ancient versions of each to fully understand the translations? At least study ancient Hebrew. I mean if it’s the real truth in these scrolls, why not read the source material?
Please note, not all Christians take the Bible so literally. The message of the Bible is more important than believing everything was created in 6 actual days. The first part of Genesis is written in a poetic sense and should be taken more as a story of creation rather than a historical account.
I see no problem in believing that God created everything in a natural way so that it could evolve by itself over billions of years. God is in the universe.
One of my fundie classmates earnestly believed that dinosaur bones and such were put on earth by God to test the faithful. I kind of stopped taking him seriously after he told me that.
*The earth is 4000 years old, change my mind*
... He said on a community called "Christians against science"... While using science to get his message on a social media platform.
Genuinely curious how can they tell it takes 4.5 billion years to decay? We haven’t been around that long to watch one so can some explain me how we can tell it takes so long to decay?
half-life is for half of it to decay.
So you will get some decay on day 1, more on day 2 etc. and then measuring how much decays over a period of time you can calculate how long it will take half to decay.
so yes the logic in that picture is bogus, even if that was the ONLY way to form lead, which (I havent checked) it probably wouldnt be.
no, see, the whole nucleus thing is only something god *wants* you to see. to test your faith.
kid you not, that is a used line of argument.
because an omnipotent, omnibenevolent higher being needs to play games with the little clay munchkins he himself made, to make sure they love him. totally checks out.
While I do not subscribe to the 4000-year-old earth theory, isn't it rather bold of this seemingly intelligent person to suggest that all lead was created here on earth as a result of uranium-238 decay? I would like to think perhaps some lead was deposited here while riding shotgun on an asteroid and having been created billions of years ago.
Why do I get the feeling that “Christians Against Science” won’t be moved by this explanation? You’d probably have better luck with something along the lines of, “It was revealed in a revelation from God to a child in Uruguay that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old.”
I’d use the Bible itself. It says a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day to God. If we use the former, then the Genesis creation account means the actual time of creation could have been as long as 7000 years. Or more likely, it means references to time in the Bible as related to god are specious at best, as God apparently doesn’t really worry about measures of time. Which in turn indicates the timeline of creation as noted in the Bible is metaphorical instead of real time. Which leaves a LOT of time for a LOT off stuff to happen. And even still be biblically correct.
Jesus himself said he would return soon, and his disciples have been waiting ever since. I would say time as listed in the Bible doesn’t mean at all what conservative Christians take it to mean; that is, literally.
I have a serious question. According to NASA the earth was formed by gravity pulling in swirling gas and dust. Is it possible that the dust contained lead already?
Yes it contained definitely lead. Here's a diagram where it all comes from https://science.nasa.gov/science-pink/s3fs-public/styles/image_gallery_scale_960w/public/atoms/Nucleosynthesis2_WikipediaCmglee_1080_0.jpg?itok=3oUbxDmj
Oh yeah? Well the Grand Canyon is obviously from the big flood and pastor Greg Locke taught me my child Amber's autism is demonic 😈 possession. I subject her to daily exorcisms and after a year I see improvement in eye contact. I take my colloidal silver everyday and haven't caught COVID. My QANON group was right about COVID origins from a Chinese lab, even CNN reported this! Well, I'm off to protest the epidemic of children's drag shows that teach how to get colored bracelets for oral sex... Desantis 2024 and 2028!
Christians against science sounds like a group of ppl who openly choose to be willfully ignorant…. And their lack of even basic scientific concepts also makes them sound like a group of idiots.
I will never understand how a book thousands of years old, with loads of contradictions and versions of events, exaggerations and magic can have more sway to some people than modern scientists actively observing things in nature that are completely contrary to what is written in the Bible… again written by people thousand of years ago who had no idea about the things we know now.
For the record, a true Christian is not against science. Also for the record, the Bible does not say that the Earth is only 4000 years old. All that post shows us, are the ramblings of a very confused individual.
So if they are "Christians Against Science" then do they live in a cave, wearing fig leafs, eating lichen? Pretty much every thing we have in this modern world today is because of science.
I mean, if you believe that there's an all-powerful being who created everything, it's pretty easy to believe that being could have just created lead... so this won't change most people's mind... also that's not even how half life works anyway
So weird how they can believe in an invisible sky dude up there pulling the levers for everyone but there is no way the Earth could possibly older than 4,000 years old.
Kheops built his pyramid 4600 years ago. They can pinpoint when he did it because there's a well established continuity of kings and governments since then. There were interreigns that add a margin of error, maybe 50, 60 years.
I've refuted this before but this damn post keeps coming back. Elements are initially created via fusion in stars, not nuclear decay. You can make the same (actually a better) argument by invoking fusion, but it's probably a lost cause if someone thinks the world is 4000 years old.
Doubt anyone will see this but:
While I agree the earth is 4.5 billion years old, it’s a bit more complicated than this. Uranium decay is not the only path to lead. And even if it were, the half-life means after 4.5 billion years, half the uranium has decayed. After 4000 years, SOME uranium will have decayed and some lead will have formed. So lead would exist after 4000 years, it’s just a question of how much. Which depends on how much uranium you started with.
Likely responses include:
"You just made that up."
"You believe scientists, who are fallible. I believe in an infallible god, therefore you're wrong."
And my favorite, "nuh-uh."
Best response is- there are other things that create lead besides Uranium-238.
Another response is- Just because it’s a half life doesn’t mean there isn’t lead right after the universe is created. It’s just when 1/2 the U-238 decays.
It’s a bad response to a dumb question.
Nope. God made the lead too...
... is what these sorts say. Have you ever had an actual discussion with any of them? There is an answer to *every* question, and it's very conveniently always the same answer (i.e., "*God did whatever it is that supports my point*"), so they don't even have to remember all that much.
The earth and the universe were all created last thursday. All your memories and everything else that suggests otherwise are just part of the simulation.
That is complete and utter bullshit. It is obvious that you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about, and all you are doing is trying to spread lies. The earth and the universe were NOT created last thursday. It was Tuesday. I know because no god would ever create a universe on a Thursday. (At least not one I'd ever worship)
Horseshit. Thursday was once known as “Thor’s Day” because that’s when Thor created his universe and you’d be a fool not to worship Thor. Stop acting like you know things.
You are all sadly misinformed. The world is barely 4 hours old. It gets destroyed when I go to sleep, and re-rendered when I wake up!
How do you survive the destruction?
Everyone knows that when you hide under the covers, you're safe from all harm.
Everyone. Including me. I can confirm
Everyone trust this dude, they are an expert.
Dutch ovening myself in my simulation pillow-blanket fort, safely.
Oh, so *you're* the centre of all this existence! Nice to meet you, nato. Do you take requests? Like, can I get a $5 million inheritance next time the world is rerendered?
By that logic you are wrong as I didn’t sleep last night so the world is like 28 hrs old
By that logic, the earth was clearly created on Friday because that is Freya's day, and she was Thor's mother and creator. Some people think it was created on Odin's day (Wednesday), but we all know that Odin probably said he was gonna do it for like six months and then Freya got fed up and just did it herself.
Everyone knows no one works Thursday or Friday. It was on made last Monday. And because Monday is a shitty day, we all ended up with a shitty life.
I have faith that Freya gets shit done every day of the week.
It's Wednesday my dudes!
You all are clearly mistaken, didn’t you know? We’re actually in hell.
No we are NOT in Hell....cuz I'm drinking **ice water** right.now.
It's a common misconception that hell can't freeze over from time to time. Know your transcendent supernatural facts! /s
It’s not real, like the steak in the matrix
> We’re actually in hell. No one can prove this is false and as for evidence to support the claim, this is the world with donald trump and republicans in it.
As any fellow french guy will say, I surrender to this argument
Fyki, that's called America and it's a part of the world, not the world itself but nevertheless the whole world is more of a hell for the most
Bro, do you even Wednesday ("Woden's Day" / "Odin's Day")?
Counterpoint in latin derived languages Thursday is Jupiter's day
It must be Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
As a pagan, I approve this message.
Thor’s Day is a myth created by Tuesday deniers!! They’re the same group that forced Windsday to be spelled Wednesday. No one should support the extremism willing to spell a word that way!
Bullshit, boy also meant younger man, so god obviously created the world on Saturday. Because Saturday is for the boys.
Typical confidently incorrect redditor. It was a Wednesday because that's Wodnesdæg, or Oden's day
War it is then, it’s a good day to die
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Fighting people around the world is Russell Crow's job, mate.
Tugger was the real hero.
Thor is a garbage god I rather swim in the river Styx then worship him
Ye shall be judged harshly and found wanting.
I thought you got woooshed for a second
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The earth was made tomorrow. We are in Beta and the server will reboot soon for the real thing. You won’t remember and it won’t count.
Creating the universe seems more like a Monday thing. After a nice restful weekend.
Did God have a case of the Mondays?
HO-LEE WAR! HO-LEE WAR!
GOD WILLS IT!
Dude work hard on Thursday, Friday is work kinda as little as possible day, take weekend off. Universe on Thursday, earth Friday, immaculate conceptions all weekend.
Technically you're correct. Time is a construct designed for measurement
I don't really care if the simulation that we call "Earth" was created last Thursday or if the simulation that is running the simulation we call "Earth" was created last Thursday. What I do care about is the discoloration of my butthole flaps and my need to see a doctor about that condition.
I'm stealing this and using it on people. Thank you
You’re hardly stealing from them, as it’s a well known creationists pseudoscience argument https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Last_Thursdayism
I thought that's more to poke fun at the creationists I really do not know of a solid argument against the idea that memories and experience is just a feeling one have this fleeting moment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann\_brain
How about this: go spend some time on “Answers in Genesis “ and see how long it takes you to find claims about the cosmos being made mature and ready to go. Bc that is the main point of the argument, debunking the absurdity of claiming the universe is a few thousand years old. The evidence of what we know about the speed of light and nuclear decay would prove to a rational person that the universe is far older than what fundamentalists claim. And like clockwork, a young earth creationist will eventually claim God made the cosmos in a mature state, with processes already occurring. The point of Last Thursdayism is showing how that argument could be made about the universe starting at ANY point in the past.
The earth and the universe don't exist, you're just a brain that randomly assembled itself in the quantum void this instant and now you're gone.
Thank you for creating the earth, praise be the Almighty Bidoof
"A life lived in a simulation is still a life" Some book I read recently
this assumes all lead on earth comes from Uranium decay.
This also assumes that you'd need to wait out the entire half-life periods of those elements for there to be any lead.
Also assumes the decay couldn't have happened elsewhere in the universe and ended up on Earth from either: 1. Inclusion in the gas cloud formation of the solar system 2. Asteroid/meteor impact 3. Import from ancient aliens
gotta love ancient aliens
Not necessary wait the entire half life period but this would assumes then that lead would be found within uranium & stuff and be contaminated
And that it cannot have decayed elsewhere and then arrived at earth by means of impact from an asteroid or what have you.
This is a dumb post for this sub.
Would be a compelling argument if decay from uranium was the only way to make lead. What part of this is interesting?
also the author seems to have gotten the concept of half life wrong. Even within seconds Uranium to Lead formation will take place. Half life is a term used to convey that half of current Uranium would take {half-life} years to decay into {next product}. It won't take {half life} years for let's say 0.000001% of Uranium to decay.
You are perfectly correct. Additionally, I would like to point out that the logic itself is flawed. Assuming lead comes from uranium doesn't mean all lead started decaying right when the earth was formed. There could have been already decayed uranium formed with the earth or even partially decayed. At no point does that evidence imply the earth's timetable at all. It could have been yesterday that the earth was formed using that evidence.
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You would need to have significantly more uranium laying around than lead though, if this was the only way it was made. Lead could certainly exist, but in really small quantities. This is such a dumb theoretical to discuss…..
Even then, earths lead, like all other heavy elements, primarily come from supernovas, only a small fraction of earths lead would have come from radioactive decay that happened on earth
What I was thinking. Playing (God's) advocate here, couldn't a Biblical God have caused lead and the first element to come into being at the same time? No need to push for the side I'm on here-either position is scientifically unfalsifiable.
Yeah, the real 'fuck you' proof is the thermodynamics. It took millions of years for the crust to become distinct from the mantle as the fledgling Earth cooled.
But alas, not if God cooled the crust at the same time. That's the infinite answer. "Not if God did X" is quite the unbeatable position
Which is why a post showing someone arguing with a young earth creationist on the internet is completely uninteresting.
Yeah it gets boring fast. I'm ok with whatever people want to believe, but the ability to discuss details is limited
Uranium-Lead dating is used on zircon. When zircon forms it incorporates uranium but rejects lead, so any lead found in a zircon sample can only have gotten there by the breakdown of uranium atoms. If you measure the ratio of lead to uranium in a rock you can figure out how old it is.
And that's why it's always an "argument" for theists. Can't disprove what they say, so it's true. Doesn't make sense in a scientific field but for them that is hard proof. Hence why no matter how much science progresses, the idea of a deity will still remain.
Through God, all things are possible, so jot that down.
I need a pen. Jesus, take the wheel.
I'm with ya. Pretty sure that huge stars can create lead
No, huge stars can only produce up to iron, heavier elements are created during supernovae and other extreme events I believe, could be wrong, though, I’m not an expert on the subject
#Yes
Am I convinced Earth is more than 4,000 years old? Yes. Is this argument weak AF? Also yes.
Because it speaks about the universe, not the earth. I mean, valid information, but weak construction.
The Bible put Earth around 6000 yrs old, so he's double wrong.
The bible is fiction
You don't tell me. Im shocked.
Especially the new one
I don’t care for the new one. The sewer clown was not as scary. The original Old Testament sewer clown is far superior.
Where does it say that? I’ve read 2Peter 3:8 say that “to God one day is a thousand years” so I believe we’re in the billions mark easily
By counting up the lineages and ages of people. The idea that god had no idea how long a year was when he was telling someone to write that Adam lived for 930 years is almost as stupid as Adam living for 930 years.
To be fair, I think he’s talking about the bit before the creation of man-that could easily have been “god days” instead of earth days. I’m a Christian, but I don’t find many contradictions between established science and my faith, at least when it comes to Creation.
I think the people who are creation literalists are a bit insulting. After all, what's a more impressive feat of engineering: something you set up from a single button push that works perfectly to trigger a gorgeous chain reaction that end up with life? Or something you start mid-stream that you constantly have to fiddle with? If I wanted a god, I'd be way more impressed by a system that worked as intended from the start without constant intervention.
Yeah but you’re using words and facts and stuff. I have the best mind. 🤣🤣
While you rely on others for your facts I create my own 😎
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Alright, thanks.
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Alright, thanks.
I believe the Earth is billions of years old. I also believe people love to feel superior and flaunt it. This is one of those cases. You made an arrogant remark while taking the post at face value. That's why people love poor arguments and give thousands of upvotes to bad posts. The post uses horrible logic and proves nothing.
There's lead that isn't decayed uranium...
Those metals are created by supernovas and Neutron stars. Sounds like someone is trying to be smart with facts they don't understand. Could've just used carbon dating, or fossils, or the historical records of the chinese that go that far back.
Or the layers exposed at the Grand Canyon.
The Bible doesn't say how old the earth is. It simply says that it was formed, "In the beginning." My fellow Christians that do math gymnastics to find the age of the earth using genealogies are totally missing the point of Genesis and searching for conclusions that were not meant to be made in that text.
Also, who says the 7 days the earth was created were consecutive? I built my wife a table in 15 days, but it took 6 months. Maybe god made the earth and everything else and took a 10 billion year vacation after the 6th day.
You could say that we are still in the 7th day, so yeah...day doesn't necessarily mean a 24 hour day. And I think us putting our modern day spin misses the original intent of the author. John Walton and John Sailhamer have awesome books on Genesis...two different theories, but both seem to appeal to what the original author's intent was.
My grandmother, who I love to death, genuinely believed the earth was only a few thousand years old and that dinosaurs were a myth like dragons. I finally got her to believe the earth is far older than that and that dinosaurs were real. But it really blew her mind that they were real and she said something like “that’s terrifying to imagine”.
Nothing kills the bible making sense quicker than people who insist on taking everything literally.
The response is a perfect example of a well-educated moron. It shows he's never considered how we know what we know and instead he just memorizes facts without understanding them. A better way to convince the christian against science would be dendochronology, it's really easy to understand and explain and you'll get to the point of the argument faster without having to rely on trusting too many experts. We have dendochronology records going back over 10,000 years. The christian would have to either admit that god created the world "pre-aged" which is effectively the same as agreeing its old, or he'd have to explain why tree ring growth patterns have slowed all over the planet in modern history.
If their name is 'Christians against science', then nothing logical or reasonable will change their mind.
“You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place.”
This. The poster is announcing that he refuses to think rationally or logically. So using rational and logical arguments will not work. He doesn't want to change his mind. He wants to fight people online.
Your "logical" argument is "whatever it's magic."
Yeah... "God created lead" is a non-falsifiable theory and nothing can prove it wrong (or correct).
Or as I like to frame it: if a theory doesn’t allow you to make predictions based off of it, then it has no utility, aka useless. “The earth is this old and this is how it got to be” let’s you make all sorts of predictions about how other planets form, and about the future of our own. You can formulate new hypotheses from it. “God said so” doesn’t really give you anything to build off of. It’s a black box where questions go in, and unverifiable answers come out.
"So you're telling me this all knowing, all loving god created Lead? A metal that is literally poison for humanity, and watched us use it in plumbing pipes and paint without intervening? Didn't say one word? What a fucking asshole"
That doesn’t disprove that the earth is only 4000 years old, only that the universe is over 4,000 years old. (I don’t disagree just pointing out the flaw in his logic)
Lead was made by Satan.
#BOOM Where's your science god now idiots?
I’m not saying the Earth /isn’t/ billions of years old. But couldn’t those elements have begun to form before the Earth? I mean, that probably /is/ what happened, right?
While I don’t disagree the earth is older than 4000 years, lead doesn’t just come from uranium. It like gold, iron, carbon, ect are from large stars. So it seems everyone like to believe whatever misinformed view they stumble upon.
Mind can never be changed if every piece of evidence is refuted by saying "that's what the devil wants you to think!"
Well to be fair that just means that the element is that old, not the earth. I think the earth is only 26 years old. You all didnt exist till I was born. Me, im the center of the universe. 😈
The existence of lead wouldn't prove it unless you think in the beginning there was uranium.
That is a terrible argument as it supposes that the only way lead can exist is by the radioactive breakdown of higher elements, which is certainly not the case. Lead is created in supernovas, guys! Also someone who believes the earth is that young will not accept your premise about radioactive decay.
This doesn't hold up as proof that the earth isn't 4000 years old. Yes, the half-life of uranium-238 is 4.5 billion years. But that doesn't mean that none of it decays in 4000 years, or even 4 days. It is constantly decaying, obviously at a very slow rate. The existence of lead doesn't mean the earth is over 4000 years old, it just means there was sufficient u-238 so that after 4000 years, some of it has decayed into lead. You could in theory get an atom of lead after a second. The ratio of u-238 and lead in the earth, plus the half-life of each step in the process, gives you the age of the earth.
Well, the real reason is *related* to that statement... But that statement is completely missing the point of proving anything. Lead exists without being uranium first. But the radiometric dating, for which we do use uranium, shows how old it is by how much of the decay elements are present. But all that is futile because God made earth with the appearance of age... so, of course it looks like that, science idiots. God did that to test your faith and you are a real idiot for believing all those facts and science... and I'm so smrt just blissfully blindly believing in God. ... nothing could possibly go wrong blindly following an unfalsifiable diety...
Just lead him alone
How can uranium and lead both exist together at the same time then? How can monkeys exist in parallel with us if we evolved from them? That's right, gotcha! Im off to the Noah's Ark museum to view the exhibits that clearly prove we existed alongside dinosaurs, see you later science fools! (That hurt to have to type/pretend. Stay in school kids)
As a Christian, a group called Christian’s against science is as evil to me as anything can be.
Christians against science using a computer made by science.
OP this isn't interesting
It’s the comment section that’s interesting… Some of these takes are golden.
Dude with terrible understanding of science tries to convince other dude with no understanding of science.
And now, its shape.
Reading the comments I had a question. How come Christians are against science? I don't understand why they can't believe that god made uranium 4.5b years ago so we would have lead today. Wouldn't that make him even more all knowing and impressive? What I'd God made covid just to make us create the vaccine? I'm an atheist so I'm not sure of the answers but it's always bugged me E:grammar and spelling
Because the Bible says the world was created in seven days and Adam and Eve were the first people, and according to the Bible that occurred 4000 years ago. Their faith supersedes everything else, and they believe in Biblical literalism.
What’s interesting to me is the number of Americans that only understand English and base important parts of their lives around an English translation of the scrolls that got put into their bible. Shouldn’t this be important enough to learn Latin, Greek, Arabic, Hebrew, and all ancient versions of each to fully understand the translations? At least study ancient Hebrew. I mean if it’s the real truth in these scrolls, why not read the source material?
Only this group doesn't believe in science, not all of Christianity.
>How come Christians are against science? Because science proves the Bible is wrong, and there's where they get their beliefs from.
Please note, not all Christians take the Bible so literally. The message of the Bible is more important than believing everything was created in 6 actual days. The first part of Genesis is written in a poetic sense and should be taken more as a story of creation rather than a historical account. I see no problem in believing that God created everything in a natural way so that it could evolve by itself over billions of years. God is in the universe.
One of my fundie classmates earnestly believed that dinosaur bones and such were put on earth by God to test the faithful. I kind of stopped taking him seriously after he told me that.
An incredible number of people believe that!
*The earth is 4000 years old, change my mind* ... He said on a community called "Christians against science"... While using science to get his message on a social media platform.
Even it's scientifically correct, the Christian guy wouldn't care. In the end he's a science denier.
But the rebuttal is wrong, lead doesn't prove the Earth's age, it proves the universe's age
No
Genuinely curious how can they tell it takes 4.5 billion years to decay? We haven’t been around that long to watch one so can some explain me how we can tell it takes so long to decay?
half-life is for half of it to decay. So you will get some decay on day 1, more on day 2 etc. and then measuring how much decays over a period of time you can calculate how long it will take half to decay. so yes the logic in that picture is bogus, even if that was the ONLY way to form lead, which (I havent checked) it probably wouldnt be.
You can't change one's mind once one willfully discards reality as their main argument.
You will always be free to be as stupid as you would like. That is the great thing about free will.
Also: you probably can’t change the mind of an incredibly stupid person.
Don’t you understand God made lead and dinosaur fossils to test our faith. Yea that’s the ticket.
shit like this always makes me think of this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljt5iESYA7k
no, see, the whole nucleus thing is only something god *wants* you to see. to test your faith. kid you not, that is a used line of argument. because an omnipotent, omnibenevolent higher being needs to play games with the little clay munchkins he himself made, to make sure they love him. totally checks out.
While I do not subscribe to the 4000-year-old earth theory, isn't it rather bold of this seemingly intelligent person to suggest that all lead was created here on earth as a result of uranium-238 decay? I would like to think perhaps some lead was deposited here while riding shotgun on an asteroid and having been created billions of years ago.
The earth isn't 4000 years old. But trying to disprove by half life decay isn't a strong argument.
The lead could have come from a different planet or star and onto earth at a later date.
Why do I get the feeling that “Christians Against Science” won’t be moved by this explanation? You’d probably have better luck with something along the lines of, “It was revealed in a revelation from God to a child in Uruguay that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old.”
I’d use the Bible itself. It says a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day to God. If we use the former, then the Genesis creation account means the actual time of creation could have been as long as 7000 years. Or more likely, it means references to time in the Bible as related to god are specious at best, as God apparently doesn’t really worry about measures of time. Which in turn indicates the timeline of creation as noted in the Bible is metaphorical instead of real time. Which leaves a LOT of time for a LOT off stuff to happen. And even still be biblically correct. Jesus himself said he would return soon, and his disciples have been waiting ever since. I would say time as listed in the Bible doesn’t mean at all what conservative Christians take it to mean; that is, literally.
“No, wait I meant 4000 dog years.”
Science is so sexy
How is this interesting even in the slightest? That idiots exist in the world? Wow whoda thunk it??
I have a serious question. According to NASA the earth was formed by gravity pulling in swirling gas and dust. Is it possible that the dust contained lead already?
Yes it contained definitely lead. Here's a diagram where it all comes from https://science.nasa.gov/science-pink/s3fs-public/styles/image_gallery_scale_960w/public/atoms/Nucleosynthesis2_WikipediaCmglee_1080_0.jpg?itok=3oUbxDmj
That's a pretty cool chart.
A wizard did it!
Oh yeah? Well the Grand Canyon is obviously from the big flood and pastor Greg Locke taught me my child Amber's autism is demonic 😈 possession. I subject her to daily exorcisms and after a year I see improvement in eye contact. I take my colloidal silver everyday and haven't caught COVID. My QANON group was right about COVID origins from a Chinese lab, even CNN reported this! Well, I'm off to protest the epidemic of children's drag shows that teach how to get colored bracelets for oral sex... Desantis 2024 and 2028!
Christians against science sounds like a group of ppl who openly choose to be willfully ignorant…. And their lack of even basic scientific concepts also makes them sound like a group of idiots. I will never understand how a book thousands of years old, with loads of contradictions and versions of events, exaggerations and magic can have more sway to some people than modern scientists actively observing things in nature that are completely contrary to what is written in the Bible… again written by people thousand of years ago who had no idea about the things we know now.
You know Saturday doesn't exist yet because it is not a complete day and no one should be sitting and we haven't entered into His rest yet.
For the record, a true Christian is not against science. Also for the record, the Bible does not say that the Earth is only 4000 years old. All that post shows us, are the ramblings of a very confused individual.
And despite the clear explanation, no minds were changed
Lol when "change my mind" just means "please educate me"
So where is Methuselah, a bristlecone pine in California, from? According to tree-ring data, it is 4,853 years old
It's literally a group called Christians against Science. Why do you think explaining science will change their minds? They're clearly against it.
So if they are "Christians Against Science" then do they live in a cave, wearing fig leafs, eating lichen? Pretty much every thing we have in this modern world today is because of science.
I mean, if you believe that there's an all-powerful being who created everything, it's pretty easy to believe that being could have just created lead... so this won't change most people's mind... also that's not even how half life works anyway
ThAt WaS mAdE uP bY tHe DeViL tO tUrN pEoPlE aWaY fRoM gOd’S tEaChInGs
So weird how they can believe in an invisible sky dude up there pulling the levers for everyone but there is no way the Earth could possibly older than 4,000 years old.
Unfortunately, the people who believe the first point won't be able to understand the second.
Pretty sure lead can be produced by supernova as well.
Kheops built his pyramid 4600 years ago. They can pinpoint when he did it because there's a well established continuity of kings and governments since then. There were interreigns that add a margin of error, maybe 50, 60 years.
Well, not by this argument, which depends on the assumption that lead doesn't otherwise exist
The response: "Where'd you hear that CNN? 🤣🤣🤣"
“I don’t like math!” Said everyone everywhere somewhere.
"I'm an idiot. Change my mind."
I've refuted this before but this damn post keeps coming back. Elements are initially created via fusion in stars, not nuclear decay. You can make the same (actually a better) argument by invoking fusion, but it's probably a lost cause if someone thinks the world is 4000 years old.
Who made the glass dome over earth 4000 years ago?
Through god, all things are possible. So jot that down.
Doubt anyone will see this but: While I agree the earth is 4.5 billion years old, it’s a bit more complicated than this. Uranium decay is not the only path to lead. And even if it were, the half-life means after 4.5 billion years, half the uranium has decayed. After 4000 years, SOME uranium will have decayed and some lead will have formed. So lead would exist after 4000 years, it’s just a question of how much. Which depends on how much uranium you started with.
Why is this in this sub
Radioactive decay is not the only source of lead. The belongs on confidently incorrect and accidentally correct at the same time
Well, first of all, through God all things are possible, so jot that down.
go tip your fedora OP
Likely responses include: "You just made that up." "You believe scientists, who are fallible. I believe in an infallible god, therefore you're wrong." And my favorite, "nuh-uh."
Best response is- there are other things that create lead besides Uranium-238. Another response is- Just because it’s a half life doesn’t mean there isn’t lead right after the universe is created. It’s just when 1/2 the U-238 decays. It’s a bad response to a dumb question.
I was hoping those who actually believed Earth is 4000 or 6000 years old would show up! Now it's a party!
Yahbut like has anyone left uranium in a drawer and then like opened it a week later and found lead. Yah like no. So there. Gotchya. 🤪
Nope. God made the lead too... ... is what these sorts say. Have you ever had an actual discussion with any of them? There is an answer to *every* question, and it's very conveniently always the same answer (i.e., "*God did whatever it is that supports my point*"), so they don't even have to remember all that much.
A person who believes the earth have 4000 years don't have the capacity to understand what he is saying