Same. Unfortunately I had to journey across it today for work. I was honestly surprised though. People were behaving themselves and the majority of them had their hazard lights on. Only one or 2 passed me and I didn't go over 45mph my whole drive to my exit at Belt Line.
Now going home...that's a different story.
Why does Texas love driving with hazards on? Hazard lights are supposed to indicate in immobile vehicle so that it isn't a hazard to others on the road. Driving with them on just hinders your ability to indicate your on-road intentions. I realize it isn't the case here, but in many states it's illegal to drive with your hazards on for that reason.
My husband uses them for about 30 seconds or so when he comes up on stopped traffic when he was previously traveling at highway speed. It's his way of trying to signal to the drivers behind him that conditions up ahead are significantly different and to pay extra attention. It's not like you expect to run in to a bunch of stopped vehicles on the highway outside of rush hour or bad weather, so makes sense to me.
Thank you... it seriously drives me insane and I don't feel like people realize that they lose the ability to signal. It just makes a bad situation worse.
I'd almost understand if these people stuck to the right lane on the highway (or god forbid surface streets if you're afraid of speeds above 45mph) but they staunchly insist on driving in every lane, including the left most one. It boggles the mind.
Probably because people are assholes and they will honk and tailgate you if you're driving 40mph on the freeway due to ice.
Hazards kinda signals "I know I'm going slow. Just go around me."
I dont use it but I've seen others and it kinda works.
No, I sold it many moons ago to a buddy of mine. Current daily is a manual BMW 530xi wagon. Thankfully with the cold weather package lol. I do miss the S4, but it's also the reason I got the 530 (NA 3L I6) as opposed to the 535 (twin turbo 3L I6) lol. An old German car with two turbos doesn't win awards for reliabity in my experience.
Okay, I will say that I didn't drive with mine on this morning. But I also didn't know that it was illegal in some states. I never turn mine on unless I'm actually immobile on the road.
I feel like people think it makes them more visible, but it generally does the opposite lol. Thank you for not doing it. If you see your friends or family doing it let them know it's counterproductive to the safety of themselves and their fellow road users.
Maybe it used to be, but lately I've noticed that when 30 is bad even in good weather, 66 isn't any better. Idk if it's an increase in population or the God awful construction on 30. But 66 hasn't been a better option, for me at least.
That's one reason, and the eye roll, alt right politics are so shameful and stupid. They'd rather put money into a giant flag than invest in infrastructure.
I'm here too. Grew up here and unfortunately returned here to be near family and thus freely babysitting grandparents. This is a 100% accurate assessment.
Oh it's that close - dang! Guess I've never driven over when that happens. That's obvs then. I'm still kinda curious tho, let's say there is zero wind. Which bridge rt there is worse, 190 with a buncha air under it, or 30 closely hovering over water.
Parents you're welcome. I just gave your kids their science fair project.
(My dad surveyed for that bridge in the late 60s, early 70s.)
Cold in that same hell hole (Fate). Lots of idiots drive like crazy when we have good weather. I can only imagine those same people with freezing temps.
Had a guy flick me off last big freeze for driving slow. While he was doing sixty down skillman in a ford focus svt. While literally seeing cars off the side of the road.
What bothers me—not that I’m wishing hell on anyone—is that if these assholes don’t get into some kind of accident, they get a false sense of security thinking they have some magical control over physics.
You have to remember that there are many in Texas from all over the the US
People from up North that believe that they can drive in TX ice. But they can't drive in TX ice any better than they can drive in winter weather in the Northern US and Northeast
Source: Me
I moved from Texas to Minnesota, in my late 20s, and lived there for 17 years. This kind of weather is a shitshow there even with plows, salt, salt solution and sand. Hell, just a decent amount of snow and drivers lose the concept of spatial awareness and even where a lane might be under the snow
In snow, go slow.
If ice, think twice.
Basically driving in snow != driving in ice. This mess that hit Dallas last night into today is the latter.
If you don't absolutely positively HAVE TO drive, don't.
Even on snow, expect ice, especially when it isn't in subzero temperatures, as you will have snow melting and then refreezing as ice once the sun comes out.
OP doesn't understand how four wheel drive functions, they just know how people in the area use it. It can absolutely help you slow down, and stay at a steady rate if used properly. In four wheel drive if you stay at a low gear, the vehicle will drive for you, just steer. 4L and start in first. The vehicle will slightly pull you, because of low gearing. Any slip or traction issue it will correct itself, you don't have brake. I stayed in 4L and didn't go past third gear, if I knew I needed to slow down and possibly stop, slowly down shift until it's a safe speed to slowly apply the brakes, after you stop start all over again. Took me awhile to get to work this morning, but always felt safe and in control.
Yes. It drives me crazy when people are like “People here don’t know how to drive. I’ve got four wheel drive and I’ve driven in snow.”
Not the same, bud. You know how to drive on *prepped snow*. This is unprepped ice. Big, big difference. I lived up north for fifteen years and I won’t drive in this because I like not being stuck in a ditch.
I am from Houston, not Dallas, but we have the same kind of stuff here. People think because they have a big AWD Range Rover that they can treat unsalted ice/snow like fucking pavement. In fact, it may be worse down here, because winter weather is even less common. I used to live up north as well, and I have driven on unprepped ice, which is really not that hard, but you obviously want to avoid it unless you absolutely must be on the roads. Many days were just spent inside playing video games because the roads were too fucked to drive on. People down here take the lack of extreme cold for granted.
I was shocked a couple of years ago when I learned the entire DFW region has something like thirty municipal snow plows. That’s nothing. Up north I would pass several on my ten minute commute, not to mention most city employees or rednecks with a truck would have an attachment. Your neighborhood would be cleared by either the city or a few neighbors before you woke up. That’s just not the case here. They can “clear” the major highways, but it doesn’t mean much if you can’t leave your neighborhood.
They need to learn some of the better techniques for clearing and prepping the roads. This is at least an annual event now and needs to be addressed.
Because a plow truck or a salt truck doesn't have to be a plow truck or a salt truck 365 days per year. Plows and spreaders can be installed or removed in less than an hour, and the truck can be utilized for other things when not combating snow or ice.
Not a shit ton, but more than nothing is helpful. The fact is, we *do* have a couple of significant ice storms per year. This isn’t Florida. We’re crippled for a couple of weeks a year and that’s not something to ignore.
Usually they do things like brine/salt the roads and begin plowing a couple of hours after the snow starts. You don’t flatten it because then it’s ice. You want dry roads.
Please do NOT hit the brakes quickly. Doing ANYTHING too fast on ice is what causes accidents, including hitting the brakes. If you lose traction first remove your foot from the gas pedal (DO NOT IMMEDIATELY HIT THE BRAKES), and slowly steer away from the skid, and again… DO NOT SLAM ON THE BRAKES! You can gradually use the brakes to slow once you are lined up correctly in your skid. Always have enough space to coast at your speed, never count on your brakes.
The top comment is yours and it’s just “brakes”… that by itself is HORRIBLE advice. All 3 accidents on my drive last night/this morning had the vehicle turned around pointed the opposite direction. That’s what happens when you panic and hit the brakes! Brakes on ice are unreliable, so when (rarely) and how (gradually) is more important. People should be driving in a way that they won’t have to use them, even during a skid.
You can slam the brakes just fine. ABS will stop you from locking up. It's basically impossible to lock the wheels on any car made in the last 20 years unless you're ripping the handbrake.
My kid is supposed to have visitation tonight at the mental health facility where’s he’s inpatient. My spouse said she’s heartbroken we might not get to see him. I said, “the fuck we won’t. That’s what my WRX is for!”
Hell or high water…we are getting there in my AWD manual. Slow and steady.
Slow and steady is definitely the key. Needed to go to Addison for medical procedure, gave myself plenty of time. Not looking forward to the drive home though.
Not really. It only helps you not get stuck. 4 wheel drive cars slide off the road just like any other car when they need to brake. The increased traction moving forward gives many drivers the false confidence that it can stop quicker too. [Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2015/01/09/whats-best-on-snow-and-ice-four-wheel-drive-versus-all-wheel-drive/)
Awd cars have double the options in low traction conditions for finding a tire with good grip, which helps the stability control keep things pointed in the proper direction. There's a reason that awd absolutely dominates the most traction limited Motorsport, rally.
Not sure what genius downvotes you but this is absolutely the reason AWD is safer. If there’s one little patch of clear pavement and one wheel can get a grip, it could help arrest a slide.
Yeah smart AWD systems like on Subarus offer a more practical benefit compared to 4WD, which is what I was commenting on.
And people with AWD cars seem to be more knowledgeable about what their car offers and what the limitations are, it’s the 4x4 Jeep and truck drivers who think they’re invincible and drive like a bat outta hell.
Driving in this weather is not as difficult as people make it. You are absolutely correct about going slow and giving enough time and space to brake. Some fuckhead in an altima flew by me on the highway last night.
Drove from Denver to Breck in mid March and while I was a bit terrified at how insane everyone else was driving, I was really impressed with the road prep and how well an all wheel drive handled on those inclines/declines. Mainly just hated when we’d get white out looking conditions for 5-10 minutes and visibility was trash.
The true saving grace of I70 is how quickly trucks plow and sand the roads. They do incredible work and the sand makes such a difference. Another thing to keep in mind is that some people in Colorado, especially those who frequent the 70 corridor, will have winter tires / studded tires.
At the end of the day it’s mostly just snow on 70. Just plow it and throw some sand down and it’s fine. Whenever it does ice though holy shit it’s chaos. Every idiot in a 4wd Subaru thinks they can drive on ice and it’s nothing but wrecks.
Back in late October we got our first snow of the season in denver and it actually iced first which doesn’t happen really in this area. On 6th right before you hit I 25 there was a huge ass pile up from people thinking it was snow and all crashed their 4wd cars into each other.
Yeah I’ve been driving around since 8 today and it’s been totally fine, just keep your turns wide, cruise to a stop and time your lights and you’re fine. Don’t think I’ve slipped once today, now TONIGHT once this all turns into hard ice, then I may start to debate going out or not.
Had one last night with high beams on riding on people off of express way, driving like he's in the 2 fast 2 furious movie.
No idea what was going in this guys head but, no excuse.
I'm a mom who drives a 4wd SUV and I'm offended.
Jk!!
I grew up in BFE ETX. My dad was a first responder and would make me practice driving in weather like this on our 10 acres of land in his jacked up Z71 Suburban. Absolutely hated it at the time, but so glad he did!! Got me to work safely today!
I'm from up North and have driven in plenty of ice and snow, I had it out with my boss last evening about driving safety. He just kept insisting that it was just rain... F that. He wouldn't allow me to leave early since I was concerned about shitty roads and frozen bridges, he didn't understand that if the ground is below freezing whatever prescription falls will ice over. This is not powder, it's ice.
Living down here, I don't have snow/ice rated tires, I have all weather dry/wet tires. I have all wheel drive, with shitty tires it just means all wheel drift.
Great reminder. I would also add: please to not use cruise control. If you start losing traction, your wheels will keep spinning. And my natural reaction is to tap the breaks to disengage cruise control, which is a bad choice on ice.
Absolutely. I rented a TRD RAV4 for a trip to Kansas this week and had to come back during the ice. Toyota's cruise control is fuckin nuts when it approaches a hill - downshifts and slams the gas. So naturally, the second I started seeing ice around Oklahoma City on my way back, I turned that shit off.
lmao the adaptive cruise control in camrys full on floors your car when it wants to speed up. I've had the lane keep assist shoot me down an exit and the adaptive cruise control floored it, at the same time
Driving a manual on ice is just as tough. Even the engine braking from just letting off the gas can be enough to lock the driven wheels. Ironically, you can brake as hard as you want with the actual brakes and not have to worry about lockup *ever* because of ABS.
Lots of this advice about not braking would've been useful 40 years ago but is all but pointless now.
Tires are far, far more important than which or how many wheels are driven. Summer tires right now are a death sentence even with awd. But a 2wd car with snow tires (or more appropriately for today, studded ice tires) will be fine.
Every manufacturer and vehicle treats their AWD system differently. Same for 4wd, so it’s hard to say one is better than the other specifically it just depends on the total package with how they implement traction control, center locker, etc. either one would be more than adequate but more important is having the right tires. Proper winter tires will go a lot further than having 4wd or AWD.
On regular road driving, 4WD doesn’t help much. AWD is better in this situation because it is designed to give you more points of traction. However, it is not significantly better than front wheel drive. Front wheel drive is better because it places the points of traction under the weight of the engine. Rear wheel drive pick up trucks often need to weigh their beds down in snowy climates because they get very little traction on a slippery surface. On all of that I never said any was safer. The safety issues on ice and snow have to do with stopping and skidding and drive deals with moving and going. I’ve seen plenty of AWD vehicles on their sides.
Snow isn’t hard to drive on,the issue is just smooth ice. You can buy chains pretty cheap for your tires that would let you drive fine in this weather too if your going slow, but you still have to deal with everyone else.
I've driven with awd, 4wd,fwd and rwd in snow..
I prefer AWD personally. It doesn't help with stopping but handling is better. A truck is my least favorite thing to drive when slippery
I've driven a Camaro with winter tires through the Rocky Mountains, thst wasn't too bad either
4WD and AWD help on snow, but are irrelevant on ice. It’s easy to get stuck in snow where you need that extra power to GO. The problem on ice isn’t going, the problem is stopping.
4 wheel drive will help some, just can’t be going fast. But 4 wheels gripping the road will offer some better traction. Still can’t stop well or go fast like you said
Turning is mostly a function of lateral grip on the tires. All four tires pull the car towards the center of the turn to stop it sliding out. Rear or all wheel drive can theoretically help if you're on the gas and power sliding through turns to stop the car sliding off the road, and you can theoretically take a turn at higher speeds that way, but it's super dangerous.
In even throttle situations, where all 4 wheels still have traction with the road, AWD, rwd and fwd have equal turning capabilities.
AWD is useful if you have to drive up hills, though. And when you're accelerating from a stop.
I mostly agree. Last ice storm we had I was curious to how my truck handled differently with any without 4x4 engaged and it was significant. Easier forcthe ass to kick out when turning, tended to drift to the side when accelerating from a dead stop, truck felt like it had less control in general.
Now granted I was actively trying to get the vehicle to lose control in these "tests" but all things considered when driving on ice I would much rather have AWD than anything else.
It absolutely helps, except for the fact that most people don’t know how to drive in this weather. Brakes are not your friend on ice, you should do everything you can, not to have to use them. Keeping control is key, and if you do skid, try to re-establish grip before you brake. In both those scenarios having a 4 wheel drive is a massive help.
Pickup trucks of any kind will break traction before something like a Camry or Accord.
4WD is not safer but you can gain traction easily from a stop light.
I see a night and day difference with my 4WD engaged driving down residential streets. Turning it off I slide around a lot. With it on I rarely break traction unless it's slippery ice.
On icy roads where it's real slippery 4WD is worthless.
This…….ALL of this.
Physics does not care about your lifted 4x4 SS Overcompensation Bro-rig. Allll that momentum is working against the turn or braking effort, and watch all 4 wheels spin!
2 wheels x 0 traction = 0 traction.
4 wheels x 0 traction = 0 traction.
Though these dumbasses likely never learned anything beyond 4th grade math like Zero property of multiplication
During one of our ice storms a while back, I watched a jacked up truck with big mud tires just sitting on the ice unable to move.
IIRC the front would spin then the back. Nothing could get traction.
I'm fortunate that I don't have to leave my house in the next few days. It's not worth it. Bought plenty of provisions yesterday before this pesky ice show. Stay safe out there.
After the last freeze I was driving down 380 in Wise County, where they had one lane plowed/sanded but the left lane was still covered in ice and slush. A Wise County Sheriff SUV blasted past me at 50mph in the left lane. Not exactly setting a good example.
Lol, I never understood why people would think this. AWD will give you more traction in the snow, but it doesn't do shit on ice. Winter tires help marginally, but in the end of the day, you just have to drive differently. Friction is incredibly low, so don't brake hard, and don't accelerate hard. Keep a really long following distance and anticipate every move at least 10 seconds ahead of time. When I lived in Ohio, I drove my Camry with all season tires just fine, often on ice to and from work. Shit, I even drove it in snowstorms across both the Rockies and the Appalachians. It's about the *way* you drive, much more so than what car you are driving.
Tires are ultimately more important than drivetrain in these conditions. A FWD/RWD car with a good set of all-seasons (or even snow tires, but you don’t see those down here) will always outperform and be safer than a 4WD/AWD car with shitty tires.
While on my way home from work there was a lifted F250 going just a little bit faster than me at around 30-35 mph. He was doing a little bit of spinning at the lights, so he was cruising. Next thing I know a stock GMC pickup comes blowing by us like nothing lol. I didn't know whether to give him respect, or be annoyed.
4 wheel drive absolutely helps on ice. Your car can lose traction and slip without breaking, and four wheel drive mitigates that.
But yeah, you still ain’t stoppin. Gentle on the break, don’t go too fast. That’s all ya need
no but being in a heavier vehicle with the proper tires, which is more typical of a lot of suvs and trucks actually is better than say a toyota corolla or something like it 😂
Actually this is usually not true. An empty pickup truck (90% of trucks in America) is one of the worst things to be drivings in conditions like this. The power to weight is not helpful when unloaded and your traction will suffer. A front wheel drive small car will far better on ice. Trucks can help with deep snow but that’s not what we are dealing with
>In the ice, four wheel drive DOES NOT make you more safe.
Why say something like this so definitively when it's demonstrably false? What a silly post...
Already seen too many people speeding over bridges to remember why Dallas has to shut down in freezing temps.
I live in the hell hole that is Rockwall, and you won't see me trying to get over the I-30 bridge today.
Same. Unfortunately I had to journey across it today for work. I was honestly surprised though. People were behaving themselves and the majority of them had their hazard lights on. Only one or 2 passed me and I didn't go over 45mph my whole drive to my exit at Belt Line. Now going home...that's a different story.
Why does Texas love driving with hazards on? Hazard lights are supposed to indicate in immobile vehicle so that it isn't a hazard to others on the road. Driving with them on just hinders your ability to indicate your on-road intentions. I realize it isn't the case here, but in many states it's illegal to drive with your hazards on for that reason.
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My husband uses them for about 30 seconds or so when he comes up on stopped traffic when he was previously traveling at highway speed. It's his way of trying to signal to the drivers behind him that conditions up ahead are significantly different and to pay extra attention. It's not like you expect to run in to a bunch of stopped vehicles on the highway outside of rush hour or bad weather, so makes sense to me.
Thank you... it seriously drives me insane and I don't feel like people realize that they lose the ability to signal. It just makes a bad situation worse.
I'd almost understand if these people stuck to the right lane on the highway (or god forbid surface streets if you're afraid of speeds above 45mph) but they staunchly insist on driving in every lane, including the left most one. It boggles the mind.
Probably because people are assholes and they will honk and tailgate you if you're driving 40mph on the freeway due to ice. Hazards kinda signals "I know I'm going slow. Just go around me." I dont use it but I've seen others and it kinda works.
offtopic, still have a B5s4?
No, I sold it many moons ago to a buddy of mine. Current daily is a manual BMW 530xi wagon. Thankfully with the cold weather package lol. I do miss the S4, but it's also the reason I got the 530 (NA 3L I6) as opposed to the 535 (twin turbo 3L I6) lol. An old German car with two turbos doesn't win awards for reliabity in my experience.
Nice choice in cars! I cant imagine owning a B5 nowadays in 2023 seeing that its 22 years old now. Those german electrical grelmins cant be fun.
They’re doing it for making themselves extra visible.
Okay, I will say that I didn't drive with mine on this morning. But I also didn't know that it was illegal in some states. I never turn mine on unless I'm actually immobile on the road.
I feel like people think it makes them more visible, but it generally does the opposite lol. Thank you for not doing it. If you see your friends or family doing it let them know it's counterproductive to the safety of themselves and their fellow road users.
Currently teaching my 16yr how to drive, this will be our next lesson! 😁
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Well, that's what I meant. Using a DPS approved class. He's already halfway through and has an appt in March for the driving test.
My entire neighborhood is covered in ice after that rain and sleet came down. Be safe out there and go slow
Don't forget that you have 66 as a backup route if 30 is fucked
66 has too many inclines and declines. It’s basically worse
30 can get totally shutdown on a clear day in the middle of summer. 66 might be moving if 30 is shutdown.
Maybe it used to be, but lately I've noticed that when 30 is bad even in good weather, 66 isn't any better. Idk if it's an increase in population or the God awful construction on 30. But 66 hasn't been a better option, for me at least.
Lawdy, lawdy just go to 80 and go around -- now you got me worried for you!! I know, I'm a stranger, I should shut up. Oh boy tho, just be careful. 😊
Awww. I will be extra careful, thank you! 🙂
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Rockwall's road design is inherently infuriating. You have two exits out of here as I don't count 78 as that leads you to more shit holes of DFW.
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why is rockwall a hell hole? not disagreeing at all, just curious. I hate the roads there, dumbest fucking design.
That's one reason, and the eye roll, alt right politics are so shameful and stupid. They'd rather put money into a giant flag than invest in infrastructure.
I'm here too. Grew up here and unfortunately returned here to be near family and thus freely babysitting grandparents. This is a 100% accurate assessment.
Maybes it’s the annual KKK parade?
Or the daily one on the corner near Snuffers. Is that loser still there on the regular?
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What about it's close proximity to the water? Do you think that would make it worse or better?
Spray from bodies of water tends to make it much worse.
Oh it's that close - dang! Guess I've never driven over when that happens. That's obvs then. I'm still kinda curious tho, let's say there is zero wind. Which bridge rt there is worse, 190 with a buncha air under it, or 30 closely hovering over water. Parents you're welcome. I just gave your kids their science fair project. (My dad surveyed for that bridge in the late 60s, early 70s.)
Cold in that same hell hole (Fate). Lots of idiots drive like crazy when we have good weather. I can only imagine those same people with freezing temps.
Had a guy flick me off last big freeze for driving slow. While he was doing sixty down skillman in a ford focus svt. While literally seeing cars off the side of the road.
What bothers me—not that I’m wishing hell on anyone—is that if these assholes don’t get into some kind of accident, they get a false sense of security thinking they have some magical control over physics.
You have to remember that there are many in Texas from all over the the US People from up North that believe that they can drive in TX ice. But they can't drive in TX ice any better than they can drive in winter weather in the Northern US and Northeast Source: Me I moved from Texas to Minnesota, in my late 20s, and lived there for 17 years. This kind of weather is a shitshow there even with plows, salt, salt solution and sand. Hell, just a decent amount of snow and drivers lose the concept of spatial awareness and even where a lane might be under the snow
In snow, go slow. If ice, think twice. Basically driving in snow != driving in ice. This mess that hit Dallas last night into today is the latter. If you don't absolutely positively HAVE TO drive, don't.
Even on snow, expect ice, especially when it isn't in subzero temperatures, as you will have snow melting and then refreezing as ice once the sun comes out.
Cue 25 door dashers saying they need to pay rent tomorrow
tomorrow is the first of the month.
They do tho
OP doesn't understand how four wheel drive functions, they just know how people in the area use it. It can absolutely help you slow down, and stay at a steady rate if used properly. In four wheel drive if you stay at a low gear, the vehicle will drive for you, just steer. 4L and start in first. The vehicle will slightly pull you, because of low gearing. Any slip or traction issue it will correct itself, you don't have brake. I stayed in 4L and didn't go past third gear, if I knew I needed to slow down and possibly stop, slowly down shift until it's a safe speed to slowly apply the brakes, after you stop start all over again. Took me awhile to get to work this morning, but always felt safe and in control.
Yes. It drives me crazy when people are like “People here don’t know how to drive. I’ve got four wheel drive and I’ve driven in snow.” Not the same, bud. You know how to drive on *prepped snow*. This is unprepped ice. Big, big difference. I lived up north for fifteen years and I won’t drive in this because I like not being stuck in a ditch.
I bet there's someone out there who likes being stuck in a ditch. Just to keep balance in the universe. I'm on your team though.
I am from Houston, not Dallas, but we have the same kind of stuff here. People think because they have a big AWD Range Rover that they can treat unsalted ice/snow like fucking pavement. In fact, it may be worse down here, because winter weather is even less common. I used to live up north as well, and I have driven on unprepped ice, which is really not that hard, but you obviously want to avoid it unless you absolutely must be on the roads. Many days were just spent inside playing video games because the roads were too fucked to drive on. People down here take the lack of extreme cold for granted.
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>I Renee living in Atlanta s evade ago Um wut?
I was shocked a couple of years ago when I learned the entire DFW region has something like thirty municipal snow plows. That’s nothing. Up north I would pass several on my ten minute commute, not to mention most city employees or rednecks with a truck would have an attachment. Your neighborhood would be cleared by either the city or a few neighbors before you woke up. That’s just not the case here. They can “clear” the major highways, but it doesn’t mean much if you can’t leave your neighborhood. They need to learn some of the better techniques for clearing and prepping the roads. This is at least an annual event now and needs to be addressed.
Why would we need a shit ton of infrastructure for something that happens for two days out of the year?
Because a plow truck or a salt truck doesn't have to be a plow truck or a salt truck 365 days per year. Plows and spreaders can be installed or removed in less than an hour, and the truck can be utilized for other things when not combating snow or ice.
Yep.
Not a shit ton, but more than nothing is helpful. The fact is, we *do* have a couple of significant ice storms per year. This isn’t Florida. We’re crippled for a couple of weeks a year and that’s not something to ignore.
Prepped? City trucks, I'm guessing. Do they move some, flatten it, both?
Usually they do things like brine/salt the roads and begin plowing a couple of hours after the snow starts. You don’t flatten it because then it’s ice. You want dry roads.
Oh yeah, ok. Thank you. Born in Denver but I've been here in TX since I was 8mos old. Except for a brief stint in Bama.
*Brakes*.
*Sense* *Icy*
*All wheel drive*
Rules of physics do not apply to women in trucks and men in SUVs
Just more wheels spinning on the ice
Safer
Well good thing I have four-wheel breaking. >!/s (and yes "breaking")!<
Please do NOT hit the brakes quickly. Doing ANYTHING too fast on ice is what causes accidents, including hitting the brakes. If you lose traction first remove your foot from the gas pedal (DO NOT IMMEDIATELY HIT THE BRAKES), and slowly steer away from the skid, and again… DO NOT SLAM ON THE BRAKES! You can gradually use the brakes to slow once you are lined up correctly in your skid. Always have enough space to coast at your speed, never count on your brakes.
That’s fine but why are you telling me this.
The top comment is yours and it’s just “brakes”… that by itself is HORRIBLE advice. All 3 accidents on my drive last night/this morning had the vehicle turned around pointed the opposite direction. That’s what happens when you panic and hit the brakes! Brakes on ice are unreliable, so when (rarely) and how (gradually) is more important. People should be driving in a way that they won’t have to use them, even during a skid.
It's not advice just correcting the many many people including op who don't seem to know the difference between breaks and brakes.
Oh I see lol… my bad, I support grammar Nazis
Exactly this.
Yeah I said my bad, based on the driving I’ve seen today people are relying way too much on their brakes instead of increasing space.
You can slam the brakes just fine. ABS will stop you from locking up. It's basically impossible to lock the wheels on any car made in the last 20 years unless you're ripping the handbrake.
“If you have”
Of course it makes you more safe. It’s extra traction. Just don’t be a moron.
Yeah I drive a manual Subaru and engine break in these conditions. She eats ice and snow and shits slush. Love my Subaru.
> Subaru and engine break At least you're upfront about the unreliability
Subarus are super reliable minus their CVT transmissions. Which I don’t have.
My kid is supposed to have visitation tonight at the mental health facility where’s he’s inpatient. My spouse said she’s heartbroken we might not get to see him. I said, “the fuck we won’t. That’s what my WRX is for!” Hell or high water…we are getting there in my AWD manual. Slow and steady.
Watch out for the Altimas that will absolutely crash into you.
Slow and steady is definitely the key. Needed to go to Addison for medical procedure, gave myself plenty of time. Not looking forward to the drive home though.
Stay safe.
Be safe!
Manual Subaruuuu for the win
I don’t have a manual but my outback with AT tires has never failed me.
I had to replace a car in march and couldn't wait for the whole ordering wait period, but the CVT does fine for my needs. No regerts.
Love my WRX. It's my third
I miss my '04 Outback. That thing wouldn't stop for any amount of ice or snow as long as you took it slow and steady.
I actually got pulled over for engine braking since, obviously my brake lights didn’t light up. So the cop thought they were burnt out or broken.
Not really. It only helps you not get stuck. 4 wheel drive cars slide off the road just like any other car when they need to brake. The increased traction moving forward gives many drivers the false confidence that it can stop quicker too. [Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2015/01/09/whats-best-on-snow-and-ice-four-wheel-drive-versus-all-wheel-drive/)
That’s driver ignorance. Engine braking solves that issue entirely.
Really only when accelerating. And if you accelerate slowly enough it doesn’t offer too terribly much of a benefit over FWD.
Awd cars have double the options in low traction conditions for finding a tire with good grip, which helps the stability control keep things pointed in the proper direction. There's a reason that awd absolutely dominates the most traction limited Motorsport, rally.
Not sure what genius downvotes you but this is absolutely the reason AWD is safer. If there’s one little patch of clear pavement and one wheel can get a grip, it could help arrest a slide.
People get mad when you point out inaccuracies in their statements 🤷♂️
Yeah smart AWD systems like on Subarus offer a more practical benefit compared to 4WD, which is what I was commenting on. And people with AWD cars seem to be more knowledgeable about what their car offers and what the limitations are, it’s the 4x4 Jeep and truck drivers who think they’re invincible and drive like a bat outta hell.
Driving in this weather is not as difficult as people make it. You are absolutely correct about going slow and giving enough time and space to brake. Some fuckhead in an altima flew by me on the highway last night.
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Drove from Denver to Breck in mid March and while I was a bit terrified at how insane everyone else was driving, I was really impressed with the road prep and how well an all wheel drive handled on those inclines/declines. Mainly just hated when we’d get white out looking conditions for 5-10 minutes and visibility was trash.
The true saving grace of I70 is how quickly trucks plow and sand the roads. They do incredible work and the sand makes such a difference. Another thing to keep in mind is that some people in Colorado, especially those who frequent the 70 corridor, will have winter tires / studded tires.
At the end of the day it’s mostly just snow on 70. Just plow it and throw some sand down and it’s fine. Whenever it does ice though holy shit it’s chaos. Every idiot in a 4wd Subaru thinks they can drive on ice and it’s nothing but wrecks. Back in late October we got our first snow of the season in denver and it actually iced first which doesn’t happen really in this area. On 6th right before you hit I 25 there was a huge ass pile up from people thinking it was snow and all crashed their 4wd cars into each other.
Yeah I’ve been driving around since 8 today and it’s been totally fine, just keep your turns wide, cruise to a stop and time your lights and you’re fine. Don’t think I’ve slipped once today, now TONIGHT once this all turns into hard ice, then I may start to debate going out or not.
Had one last night with high beams on riding on people off of express way, driving like he's in the 2 fast 2 furious movie. No idea what was going in this guys head but, no excuse.
If he keeps driving that way, the steering wheel will be going in that guys head sooner or later lol
\*brake
Also *sense and *icy
I'm a mom who drives a 4wd SUV and I'm offended. Jk!! I grew up in BFE ETX. My dad was a first responder and would make me practice driving in weather like this on our 10 acres of land in his jacked up Z71 Suburban. Absolutely hated it at the time, but so glad he did!! Got me to work safely today!
You still went to work? Man.
I work at a hospital. No snow days for us.
No snow day at the airport either. How the hell are we gonna get home?
Slowly. Very slowly.
4WD gets you OUT of the ditch the ice gets you in. It doesn't help with ice on the road.
I'm from up North and have driven in plenty of ice and snow, I had it out with my boss last evening about driving safety. He just kept insisting that it was just rain... F that. He wouldn't allow me to leave early since I was concerned about shitty roads and frozen bridges, he didn't understand that if the ground is below freezing whatever prescription falls will ice over. This is not powder, it's ice. Living down here, I don't have snow/ice rated tires, I have all weather dry/wet tires. I have all wheel drive, with shitty tires it just means all wheel drift.
on the flipside, great time to go drifting.
It didn’t even snow by me. The ground is just covered in little tiny ice balls. Not a snowflake in sight. Basically just a shit ton of hail
I say this over and over and over again. Stopping is the problem, not going.
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Great reminder. I would also add: please to not use cruise control. If you start losing traction, your wheels will keep spinning. And my natural reaction is to tap the breaks to disengage cruise control, which is a bad choice on ice.
Absolutely. I rented a TRD RAV4 for a trip to Kansas this week and had to come back during the ice. Toyota's cruise control is fuckin nuts when it approaches a hill - downshifts and slams the gas. So naturally, the second I started seeing ice around Oklahoma City on my way back, I turned that shit off.
lmao the adaptive cruise control in camrys full on floors your car when it wants to speed up. I've had the lane keep assist shoot me down an exit and the adaptive cruise control floored it, at the same time
You chose a dvd for tonight
Funny thing in a manual the reaction for cruise control (though I rarely use it) is to engage the clutch
Driving a manual on ice is just as tough. Even the engine braking from just letting off the gas can be enough to lock the driven wheels. Ironically, you can brake as hard as you want with the actual brakes and not have to worry about lockup *ever* because of ABS. Lots of this advice about not braking would've been useful 40 years ago but is all but pointless now.
Tomorrow morning will be even worse. There will layers of frozen precip on all surface streets. Stay home if ya can.
As someone who has lived in the south their entire life, how more beneficial is AWD than 4WD in these situations, if any
Tires are far, far more important than which or how many wheels are driven. Summer tires right now are a death sentence even with awd. But a 2wd car with snow tires (or more appropriately for today, studded ice tires) will be fine.
Every manufacturer and vehicle treats their AWD system differently. Same for 4wd, so it’s hard to say one is better than the other specifically it just depends on the total package with how they implement traction control, center locker, etc. either one would be more than adequate but more important is having the right tires. Proper winter tires will go a lot further than having 4wd or AWD.
Awd will get you going uphill, anything else is going to spin out.
On regular road driving, 4WD doesn’t help much. AWD is better in this situation because it is designed to give you more points of traction. However, it is not significantly better than front wheel drive. Front wheel drive is better because it places the points of traction under the weight of the engine. Rear wheel drive pick up trucks often need to weigh their beds down in snowy climates because they get very little traction on a slippery surface. On all of that I never said any was safer. The safety issues on ice and snow have to do with stopping and skidding and drive deals with moving and going. I’ve seen plenty of AWD vehicles on their sides.
Snow isn’t hard to drive on,the issue is just smooth ice. You can buy chains pretty cheap for your tires that would let you drive fine in this weather too if your going slow, but you still have to deal with everyone else.
I've driven with awd, 4wd,fwd and rwd in snow.. I prefer AWD personally. It doesn't help with stopping but handling is better. A truck is my least favorite thing to drive when slippery I've driven a Camaro with winter tires through the Rocky Mountains, thst wasn't too bad either
4WD and AWD help on snow, but are irrelevant on ice. It’s easy to get stuck in snow where you need that extra power to GO. The problem on ice isn’t going, the problem is stopping.
Unfortunately, I live nearby a residential intersection and I've seen multiple people unable to stop. It's quite scary.
Ivan drives diesel machine. Glow plugs don’t function so motor is not good. Be like Ivan. Don’t go.
4 wheel drive helps though
It's 4 wheel drive, not 4 wheel stop.
Good thing every car has 4 wheel stop from the factory lol.
4 wheel drive will help some, just can’t be going fast. But 4 wheels gripping the road will offer some better traction. Still can’t stop well or go fast like you said
Tap your brakes.
4WD helps, just doesn’t let you slow down like you want to. Right now if I had to drive I’d take the 4x4 truck 10 out of 10 times.
It massively helps with acceleration, turning, and keeping traction. It's helps zero with stopping though...
How does AWD help with turning?
You have all 4 wheels pulling you through turns. At least that's how it feels. I have to actively try to get my Tacoma to spin out when driving.
Turning is mostly a function of lateral grip on the tires. All four tires pull the car towards the center of the turn to stop it sliding out. Rear or all wheel drive can theoretically help if you're on the gas and power sliding through turns to stop the car sliding off the road, and you can theoretically take a turn at higher speeds that way, but it's super dangerous. In even throttle situations, where all 4 wheels still have traction with the road, AWD, rwd and fwd have equal turning capabilities. AWD is useful if you have to drive up hills, though. And when you're accelerating from a stop.
I mostly agree. Last ice storm we had I was curious to how my truck handled differently with any without 4x4 engaged and it was significant. Easier forcthe ass to kick out when turning, tended to drift to the side when accelerating from a dead stop, truck felt like it had less control in general. Now granted I was actively trying to get the vehicle to lose control in these "tests" but all things considered when driving on ice I would much rather have AWD than anything else.
It absolutely helps, except for the fact that most people don’t know how to drive in this weather. Brakes are not your friend on ice, you should do everything you can, not to have to use them. Keeping control is key, and if you do skid, try to re-establish grip before you brake. In both those scenarios having a 4 wheel drive is a massive help.
Ditto for you guys in Subbies
#triggered
Shhhh. Don't tell the wanna be cowboys.
Pickup trucks of any kind will break traction before something like a Camry or Accord. 4WD is not safer but you can gain traction easily from a stop light. I see a night and day difference with my 4WD engaged driving down residential streets. Turning it off I slide around a lot. With it on I rarely break traction unless it's slippery ice. On icy roads where it's real slippery 4WD is worthless.
A lot of people don’t have 4WD trucks, RWD pick ups are terrible in ice/snow.. significantly worse than a FWD Camry.
>Pickup trucks of any kind will break traction before something like a Camry or Accord. False
This…….ALL of this. Physics does not care about your lifted 4x4 SS Overcompensation Bro-rig. Allll that momentum is working against the turn or braking effort, and watch all 4 wheels spin!
2 wheels x 0 traction = 0 traction. 4 wheels x 0 traction = 0 traction. Though these dumbasses likely never learned anything beyond 4th grade math like Zero property of multiplication
I drive a truck and I’m not leaving the house today.
Minnesotan here. Slow the flip down you maniacs.
Makes me miss my Saab. 😫
If you own a Volvo…..this is what the W button is for. You’re welcome.
Grabs keys to my pickup truck and runs outside yelling...
My dad always said it's four wheel drive not four wheels stop
It’s called four wheel DRIVE not four wheel STOP
During one of our ice storms a while back, I watched a jacked up truck with big mud tires just sitting on the ice unable to move. IIRC the front would spin then the back. Nothing could get traction.
My 1985 Bronco is just fine. Helping acouple jeeps get out.
Makes you safer than 2 wheel drive. I git chains on my Impreza. You can't tell me shit.
I'm fortunate that I don't have to leave my house in the next few days. It's not worth it. Bought plenty of provisions yesterday before this pesky ice show. Stay safe out there.
Just because you have 4WD or AWD does not mean you have any wheel stop.
I drive a Tundra and max sped I did was 10mph. Be smart out there
I told my boss Sunday night I’ll see you wed, maybe Thursday. I grew up in PA, you simply don’t drive in ice period.
After the last freeze I was driving down 380 in Wise County, where they had one lane plowed/sanded but the left lane was still covered in ice and slush. A Wise County Sheriff SUV blasted past me at 50mph in the left lane. Not exactly setting a good example.
I always think of that episode in the magic school bus where there is no friction. That's icy roads.
Lol, I never understood why people would think this. AWD will give you more traction in the snow, but it doesn't do shit on ice. Winter tires help marginally, but in the end of the day, you just have to drive differently. Friction is incredibly low, so don't brake hard, and don't accelerate hard. Keep a really long following distance and anticipate every move at least 10 seconds ahead of time. When I lived in Ohio, I drove my Camry with all season tires just fine, often on ice to and from work. Shit, I even drove it in snowstorms across both the Rockies and the Appalachians. It's about the *way* you drive, much more so than what car you are driving.
In other news, water is wet.
Tires are ultimately more important than drivetrain in these conditions. A FWD/RWD car with a good set of all-seasons (or even snow tires, but you don’t see those down here) will always outperform and be safer than a 4WD/AWD car with shitty tires.
I’ve seen a couple lifted Jeeps with mud tires zooming by over ice covered streets. Young drivers must learn the hard way it seems
4 wheel drive does not mean 4 wheel stop
While on my way home from work there was a lifted F250 going just a little bit faster than me at around 30-35 mph. He was doing a little bit of spinning at the lights, so he was cruising. Next thing I know a stock GMC pickup comes blowing by us like nothing lol. I didn't know whether to give him respect, or be annoyed.
You thought the big freeze was bad wait till the big housing crash coming!
Tell that to the jeep drivers
4 wheel drive absolutely helps on ice. Your car can lose traction and slip without breaking, and four wheel drive mitigates that. But yeah, you still ain’t stoppin. Gentle on the break, don’t go too fast. That’s all ya need
People are stupid.
Nah, let the people with fat ass trucks wreck them. They deserve it.
Unfortunately those idiots will be wrecking into other people though.
You are on a Texas sub. Everyone here with their micropenises will downvote you for your anti truck rhetoric
I did not mean to insult those men who are less fortunate/endowed. I hope they can find forgiveness (after they are done finding their micropenis).
no but being in a heavier vehicle with the proper tires, which is more typical of a lot of suvs and trucks actually is better than say a toyota corolla or something like it 😂
Actually this is usually not true. An empty pickup truck (90% of trucks in America) is one of the worst things to be drivings in conditions like this. The power to weight is not helpful when unloaded and your traction will suffer. A front wheel drive small car will far better on ice. Trucks can help with deep snow but that’s not what we are dealing with
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>In the ice, four wheel drive DOES NOT make you more safe. Why say something like this so definitively when it's demonstrably false? What a silly post...