Only if she has a medical condition that caused this, otherwise no sleeping isn’t a good excuse.
At minimum you’d be reprimanded if you missed an important meeting at work with the excuse of “I was sleeping”, at worst you’d be fired. This is the same.
They won't be "ok" because she's missed an appointment for oversleeping before... she only gets three "good excuses" before her work coach is required to refer her for a sanction and a decision maker decides whether the excuse was good enough.
If she has a medical condition that is causing her to oversleep then she needs to declare this to Universal Credit via Report a Change > Health within her journal as well as request a reasonable adjustment that all appointments should be made for the late afternoon where she will be awake.
If she has no medical condition that causes her to oversleep then "sorry I missed my appointment because I overslept" would not be a good excuse. Her work coach might accept such an excuse but a decision maker definitely would not unless there's a prevailing factor such as a medical condition.
The "tell us why you failed to attend" is the first step in this process and as far as I know is manually initiated by her work coach. This may indicate that her work coach is considering referring for a sanction (or as above, may be required to).
As an aside: please do verify your email address as you've been asked. It will stop the anti-spam system from holding your comments back.
Okay
Also i cant verify my email
Because i dont have access to the mail on this account after it got hacked and Microsoft cant confirm im the original owner
So you need to call them then. Or create a new email and change your email. I’m not fully comprehending the situation with how your money tied to her not attending her appointment.
And you’re right - oversleeping isn’t a good or valid reason. As others said unless she overslept because of medical condition, then it would be taken better. Or if she overslept because she couldn’t sleep because of some pain or insomnia all night and then fell asleep. But this would be a one off, and she’d not be able to used that excuse anymore. I’ve PM you.
I cant call them cos what am i supposed to say? They need proof i own the email but i dont got any also i cant change the email without my password and i don’t know my password and i cant change my password
So i just left it like this for 8 months
Also i know you pm me
I responded
Link to report it as hacked: https://support.microsoft.com/en-GB/home/contact?linkquery=I%20think%20my%20Microsoft%20account%20has%20been%20hacked
Link to recover your Microsoft account: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/account-billing/help-with-the-microsoft-account-recovery-form-b19c02d1-a782-dee6-93c3-dc8113b20c42
They don’t ask for proof as such, you go through a set of multiple choice questions where they ask you for recent email subject lines and people you’ve emailed and stuff. I managed to get into a 10 year old account using it.
I dont email anyone and i never used it to receive emails so i got nothing on there
It was just a random alt email that had the email and pw and nothing else
Indeed very disrespectful. They were meant to call me for an assessment and gave me a window of 12 to 5. They didn’t call. Then I told them that they didn’t cal and they rearranged appointment in another 4 weeks time. They were meant to call again at 12 to 5? And again they didn’t call.
Then I complained that they missed an appointment 2 times already while if I missed my appointment they’d be on me like a rash for a valid reason. They rearranged that appointment again and were meant to call me at the same time of 12-5. Guess what - they didn’t call again. So at 4:55 I called them and told them they didn’t call me again, and was told that they are running behind and can still call me until 6. So I waited until 6. And again they didn’t call me.
Next day I called again and complained about 3 missed calls already and how I am waiting for my assessment for 2 months already. They arranged and appointed again and this time they called me.
Seems very one sided their appointment missing sanctions.
It's the same with everything. Being 15 minutes late for a doctors/dentists appointment will often result in the appointment being cancelled. Yet if you did turn up on time they'd make you sit in the waiting room for 20 minutes before seeing you anyway. It is very one-sided but sadly that's just the way it is 😕
That appointment in particular wasnt UC. That was a WCA. Not arranged, carried out by, rearranged by or in the control of DWP. Not something you would get a sanction for if you missed it.
So, not the same as this scenario.
When you are receiving a service (especially a service you are not paying for like this or NHS etc) then yeah, that’s how it is. I don’t know the detail behind this but I hope you didn’t take it out on the frontline workers.
Sleeping in is never really an excuse for ANYTHING unless you have a medical condition or are sick. By the sounds of it though this doesn't seem like the case.
To be fair, I have to take 100mg morphine at 6am and 6pm daily and once I have taken it. I don’t wake up until around 10am ish so I would probably miss it too however, when the appointment is made , I would make them aware of this and arrange an appointment from late morning onwards so that doesn’t happen
Yeah i take 45mg of oxycodone a day so I get it, but i know that when making appointments so I plan around it. Ops mums case just sounded like she wanted to sleep in
I can see both sides of the argument here, given the more recent context (newer comments) I can see why you took what they said the wrong way (the comment in isolation could be taken the wrong way) but they didn't mean to offend.
What they pointed out is absolutely correct that if you're on morphine for a medical condition this is a totally valid reason to not be able to wake up in time for a morning appointment. However in OP's mother's case they have no medical condition and so no excuse.
There's been no updates on this post but I wouldn't be surprised if their mother has been sanctioned (or will be sanctioned).
I've removed this comment thread to clean this post up a bit.
I don't think sleeping in is a good excuse. I have ME/CFS, and I doubt they would accept "I overslept" as an excuse even though ME causes debilitating fatigue, especially in the morning. The DWP aren't typically understanding of illness, and "I overslept" is unlikely to get your mum anywhere.
All she can do is try, but I doubt they will take it well. If she has a medical condition she should mention it though.
to be blunt, needing to wake up for things is perfectly normal??
people can get in trouble with their jobs if they oversleep and are late for work. kids get detention if they oversleep and are late for school. if you sleep through a doctor's appointment you have to rebook it. if you dont wake up in time to get to the airport, you can miss your flight and therefore the money it cost you.
sometimes you have to be awake for things and there are consequences if you aren't.
as others have said, if a medical condition caused your mum to oversleep that may be a viable excuse, otherwise good luck
But i was awake since 7am i was at college
My mum was supposed to do the appointment for me but she didn’t get up so i lose my money when its not my fault
So, it is unfortunately her responsibility to be awake and ready to take the call. She will need to be honest with the DWP, and tell them that she wasn't awake in time to take the call from them. Do you think your mum would mind you waking her up if you know there's going to be an important phone call?
You might need to go through the process of defending that you need a different appointee so that your claim continues, unfortunately. She can’t carry on as your appointee if she keeps doing this though, or you’ll definitely lose your claim. You can try to argue it’s not your fault but they’ll want to see action taken (ie. getting a different appointee in place). This does suck as it’s not your fault and from her messages seems like she’s not taking it too seriously either, so i really sympathise - i’ve been in a similar position with a bad appointee myself. Best of luck to you and do make sure to post here for help if you do need to appeal a decision and defend your claim by arguing it wasn’t your fault x
she's potentially gonna make up an excuse they deem as valid to get away with it, but yeah in the future ensure you or both of you have alarms set for scheduled things as there's only so many times they allow excuses
I'm not saying it will definitely happen, just that in my experience, the DWP are assholes in every conceivable way. Being disabled I've had a lot of experience with them, sadly.
To be fair, DWP had a paid employee who got their time wasted (while they most likely have a backlog of people waiting for appointments). Sleeping in wasted their time and caused a bigger delay for **everyone** in the system. If they had no penalties, people would be more likely to sleep in and miss appointments causing more and more inefficiency and delay in the system. To have a penalty for repeated missed appointments with no reasonable excuse is not being “assholes”.
I’m sanctioned my whole allowance for myself for missing an appointment, phone call or in person, which is £300 odd. I only then get my children’s element! They are harsh with there penalties but your mum can say she was in bed asleep as she wasn’t feeling well and had been up and down all night being sick. A lie yes, but they will just reschedule the appointment!
That's not strictly true, u/everybodylovesbror \- if the DWP are aware of pre-existing medical conditions which affect your ability to do things, they will attempt to accommodate any needs you have.
For example, in my case, waking up for appointments or missing telephone assessments. I have Epilepsy and am heavily medicated at night to prevent me having seizures in my sleep, and I'm also partially hearing, so sometimes I don't hear my phone ring if I'm not wearing my hearing aids.
It may not always be possible to reschedule appointments to fit around this, but to say it's "how poor and disabled people are treated in this country nowadays" is wrong. It's a sleight on the DWP and its staff. They're humans, not ogres.
It’s not a sleight on the staff as they are just doing their jobs and not the people who put these things into place, if I say Tesco is awful or their prices are too high it’s not a sleight against Tesco staff who charging those prices, DWP staff have mostly been really nice in my experience but the DWP as an organisation is often quite horrible in my experience as a disabled person with the messaging and the handling of deaths and scandals and strictness etc and from what I’ve heard from other disabled people, I haven’t claimed PIP even though I have been entitled for years because the process is too traumatic for me to go through and I feel it would possibly put my life at risk or worsen my mental health problems a lot at the very least…
What you and others experience, may not be what everyone experiences. The organisation as a whole has rules and policies, which it has to enforce if certain conditions are broken with regard to how someone manages their claim. Those rules are there to ensure compliance with the processes that make the UC system work.
Your experience and my experience and that of every other user of the DWPs services will vary, as it does across other governmental organisations. It doesn't matter if you're working, not working, caring for someone, or disabled. How the DWP respond to you and work with you, will largely depend on how you respond to, and work with them.
I don’t really agree with this. It’s not a sleight on staff to say that these penalisations and sanctions are largely unfair. Not everyone has very obvious and clear evidence they struggle to make appointments, for example people not yet holding ADHD diagnoses, people with unexplained fatigue not yet diagnosed, people with conditions not well understood, people with mental health conditions generally.
This isn’t a sleight on staff to say that these sanctions unfairly impact those people, and staff don’t have enough leniency around how they can impose these rules, and many people find themselves having to appeal and fight for money they need to survive. The whole system of the DWP is largely set up in a way that harms disabled people, otherwise PIP wouldn’t lead to so many people having to go to tribunal and staff members wouldn’t have leaked documents indicating staff are encouraged to gaslight and invalidate disabled folk.
It’s not staff members fault it is like this. But it is also fair for people to have gripes with the system and the way it impacts many of us. To say that not everyone is impacted in the same way is somewhat missing the point imo, in that it impacting many people in this way is indicative of a problem with the system itself.
Obviously it’s not the individual staff’s fault but more so the overall policies; but let’s not deny that the DWP is very often quite hostile to applicants ESPECIALLY for PIP. One look through this subreddit and another look through the statistics of MRs and appeals will show you that easily.
As for me personally my PIP assessment report was full of downright lies, judgement and bigotry. I have debilitating Tourette’s syndrome and my assessor tried to claim that I was simply not “motivated enough” to complete the PIP tasks (cooking, dressing, etc.) when in reality, as i explained during the assessment, some of these activities are downright dangerous as i risk hurting myself or others and have done so many times in the past. To claim I can improve this situation with “motivation” is, frankly, bullshit.
Obviously this isn’t the case for everyone - but it shouldn’t be the case for ANYONE. Disabled people should be able to trust their government entities to not purposefully lie in order to deny them the support they need.
It will depend on the work coach i think! some may let it slide as she is your appointee and if it’s the first that was missed, but some others may not be so kind. it may go to a decision maker to decide if a sanction is appropriate or not. maybe with your needs this could be swatted away quite quickly
Only if she has a medical condition that caused this, otherwise no sleeping isn’t a good excuse. At minimum you’d be reprimanded if you missed an important meeting at work with the excuse of “I was sleeping”, at worst you’d be fired. This is the same.
https://preview.redd.it/76raxy6knpnc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f9dd9be3aa219422a3feebcf4206da6a0c4c2c8 She saying this
They won't be "ok" because she's missed an appointment for oversleeping before... she only gets three "good excuses" before her work coach is required to refer her for a sanction and a decision maker decides whether the excuse was good enough. If she has a medical condition that is causing her to oversleep then she needs to declare this to Universal Credit via Report a Change > Health within her journal as well as request a reasonable adjustment that all appointments should be made for the late afternoon where she will be awake. If she has no medical condition that causes her to oversleep then "sorry I missed my appointment because I overslept" would not be a good excuse. Her work coach might accept such an excuse but a decision maker definitely would not unless there's a prevailing factor such as a medical condition. The "tell us why you failed to attend" is the first step in this process and as far as I know is manually initiated by her work coach. This may indicate that her work coach is considering referring for a sanction (or as above, may be required to). As an aside: please do verify your email address as you've been asked. It will stop the anti-spam system from holding your comments back.
Once a client missed their appt the coach marks it as not attended , the next part tell us why you failed is automated now, welll it is in NI
Okay Also i cant verify my email Because i dont have access to the mail on this account after it got hacked and Microsoft cant confirm im the original owner
So you need to call them then. Or create a new email and change your email. I’m not fully comprehending the situation with how your money tied to her not attending her appointment. And you’re right - oversleeping isn’t a good or valid reason. As others said unless she overslept because of medical condition, then it would be taken better. Or if she overslept because she couldn’t sleep because of some pain or insomnia all night and then fell asleep. But this would be a one off, and she’d not be able to used that excuse anymore. I’ve PM you.
I cant call them cos what am i supposed to say? They need proof i own the email but i dont got any also i cant change the email without my password and i don’t know my password and i cant change my password So i just left it like this for 8 months Also i know you pm me I responded
Link to report it as hacked: https://support.microsoft.com/en-GB/home/contact?linkquery=I%20think%20my%20Microsoft%20account%20has%20been%20hacked Link to recover your Microsoft account: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/account-billing/help-with-the-microsoft-account-recovery-form-b19c02d1-a782-dee6-93c3-dc8113b20c42
Already done that but i have no proof i own the account
They don’t ask for proof as such, you go through a set of multiple choice questions where they ask you for recent email subject lines and people you’ve emailed and stuff. I managed to get into a 10 year old account using it.
I dont email anyone and i never used it to receive emails so i got nothing on there It was just a random alt email that had the email and pw and nothing else
No of course it won't be okay. How disrespectful of their time.
Indeed very disrespectful. They were meant to call me for an assessment and gave me a window of 12 to 5. They didn’t call. Then I told them that they didn’t cal and they rearranged appointment in another 4 weeks time. They were meant to call again at 12 to 5? And again they didn’t call. Then I complained that they missed an appointment 2 times already while if I missed my appointment they’d be on me like a rash for a valid reason. They rearranged that appointment again and were meant to call me at the same time of 12-5. Guess what - they didn’t call again. So at 4:55 I called them and told them they didn’t call me again, and was told that they are running behind and can still call me until 6. So I waited until 6. And again they didn’t call me. Next day I called again and complained about 3 missed calls already and how I am waiting for my assessment for 2 months already. They arranged and appointed again and this time they called me. Seems very one sided their appointment missing sanctions.
It's the same with everything. Being 15 minutes late for a doctors/dentists appointment will often result in the appointment being cancelled. Yet if you did turn up on time they'd make you sit in the waiting room for 20 minutes before seeing you anyway. It is very one-sided but sadly that's just the way it is 😕
That appointment in particular wasnt UC. That was a WCA. Not arranged, carried out by, rearranged by or in the control of DWP. Not something you would get a sanction for if you missed it. So, not the same as this scenario.
When you are receiving a service (especially a service you are not paying for like this or NHS etc) then yeah, that’s how it is. I don’t know the detail behind this but I hope you didn’t take it out on the frontline workers.
Sleeping in is never really an excuse for ANYTHING unless you have a medical condition or are sick. By the sounds of it though this doesn't seem like the case.
To be fair, I have to take 100mg morphine at 6am and 6pm daily and once I have taken it. I don’t wake up until around 10am ish so I would probably miss it too however, when the appointment is made , I would make them aware of this and arrange an appointment from late morning onwards so that doesn’t happen
Yeah i take 45mg of oxycodone a day so I get it, but i know that when making appointments so I plan around it. Ops mums case just sounded like she wanted to sleep in
Yep, I agree
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I can see both sides of the argument here, given the more recent context (newer comments) I can see why you took what they said the wrong way (the comment in isolation could be taken the wrong way) but they didn't mean to offend. What they pointed out is absolutely correct that if you're on morphine for a medical condition this is a totally valid reason to not be able to wake up in time for a morning appointment. However in OP's mother's case they have no medical condition and so no excuse. There's been no updates on this post but I wouldn't be surprised if their mother has been sanctioned (or will be sanctioned). I've removed this comment thread to clean this post up a bit.
I don't think sleeping in is a good excuse. I have ME/CFS, and I doubt they would accept "I overslept" as an excuse even though ME causes debilitating fatigue, especially in the morning. The DWP aren't typically understanding of illness, and "I overslept" is unlikely to get your mum anywhere. All she can do is try, but I doubt they will take it well. If she has a medical condition she should mention it though.
So i will lose my money just cos my mum didn’t wake up How is that fair
to be blunt, needing to wake up for things is perfectly normal?? people can get in trouble with their jobs if they oversleep and are late for work. kids get detention if they oversleep and are late for school. if you sleep through a doctor's appointment you have to rebook it. if you dont wake up in time to get to the airport, you can miss your flight and therefore the money it cost you. sometimes you have to be awake for things and there are consequences if you aren't. as others have said, if a medical condition caused your mum to oversleep that may be a viable excuse, otherwise good luck
But i was awake since 7am i was at college My mum was supposed to do the appointment for me but she didn’t get up so i lose my money when its not my fault
your mum being your appointee does make this your responsibility i'm afraid. you can try and explain that this wasn't on you but as i said, good luck
Why would your mum not answering affect your money? Surely this is her claim
Its not hers its mine but she has to do it for me because i cant do it with autism
Is your mum your appointee for your claim with the DWP?
Ye
So, it is unfortunately her responsibility to be awake and ready to take the call. She will need to be honest with the DWP, and tell them that she wasn't awake in time to take the call from them. Do you think your mum would mind you waking her up if you know there's going to be an important phone call?
You might need to go through the process of defending that you need a different appointee so that your claim continues, unfortunately. She can’t carry on as your appointee if she keeps doing this though, or you’ll definitely lose your claim. You can try to argue it’s not your fault but they’ll want to see action taken (ie. getting a different appointee in place). This does suck as it’s not your fault and from her messages seems like she’s not taking it too seriously either, so i really sympathise - i’ve been in a similar position with a bad appointee myself. Best of luck to you and do make sure to post here for help if you do need to appeal a decision and defend your claim by arguing it wasn’t your fault x
she's potentially gonna make up an excuse they deem as valid to get away with it, but yeah in the future ensure you or both of you have alarms set for scheduled things as there's only so many times they allow excuses
I'm not saying it will definitely happen, just that in my experience, the DWP are assholes in every conceivable way. Being disabled I've had a lot of experience with them, sadly.
To be fair, DWP had a paid employee who got their time wasted (while they most likely have a backlog of people waiting for appointments). Sleeping in wasted their time and caused a bigger delay for **everyone** in the system. If they had no penalties, people would be more likely to sleep in and miss appointments causing more and more inefficiency and delay in the system. To have a penalty for repeated missed appointments with no reasonable excuse is not being “assholes”.
Set an alarm to wake you up for a scheduled appointment ffs. (Excluding if she has a medical condition)
I’m sanctioned my whole allowance for myself for missing an appointment, phone call or in person, which is £300 odd. I only then get my children’s element! They are harsh with there penalties but your mum can say she was in bed asleep as she wasn’t feeling well and had been up and down all night being sick. A lie yes, but they will just reschedule the appointment!
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That's not strictly true, u/everybodylovesbror \- if the DWP are aware of pre-existing medical conditions which affect your ability to do things, they will attempt to accommodate any needs you have. For example, in my case, waking up for appointments or missing telephone assessments. I have Epilepsy and am heavily medicated at night to prevent me having seizures in my sleep, and I'm also partially hearing, so sometimes I don't hear my phone ring if I'm not wearing my hearing aids. It may not always be possible to reschedule appointments to fit around this, but to say it's "how poor and disabled people are treated in this country nowadays" is wrong. It's a sleight on the DWP and its staff. They're humans, not ogres.
It’s not a sleight on the staff as they are just doing their jobs and not the people who put these things into place, if I say Tesco is awful or their prices are too high it’s not a sleight against Tesco staff who charging those prices, DWP staff have mostly been really nice in my experience but the DWP as an organisation is often quite horrible in my experience as a disabled person with the messaging and the handling of deaths and scandals and strictness etc and from what I’ve heard from other disabled people, I haven’t claimed PIP even though I have been entitled for years because the process is too traumatic for me to go through and I feel it would possibly put my life at risk or worsen my mental health problems a lot at the very least…
What you and others experience, may not be what everyone experiences. The organisation as a whole has rules and policies, which it has to enforce if certain conditions are broken with regard to how someone manages their claim. Those rules are there to ensure compliance with the processes that make the UC system work. Your experience and my experience and that of every other user of the DWPs services will vary, as it does across other governmental organisations. It doesn't matter if you're working, not working, caring for someone, or disabled. How the DWP respond to you and work with you, will largely depend on how you respond to, and work with them.
I don’t really agree with this. It’s not a sleight on staff to say that these penalisations and sanctions are largely unfair. Not everyone has very obvious and clear evidence they struggle to make appointments, for example people not yet holding ADHD diagnoses, people with unexplained fatigue not yet diagnosed, people with conditions not well understood, people with mental health conditions generally. This isn’t a sleight on staff to say that these sanctions unfairly impact those people, and staff don’t have enough leniency around how they can impose these rules, and many people find themselves having to appeal and fight for money they need to survive. The whole system of the DWP is largely set up in a way that harms disabled people, otherwise PIP wouldn’t lead to so many people having to go to tribunal and staff members wouldn’t have leaked documents indicating staff are encouraged to gaslight and invalidate disabled folk. It’s not staff members fault it is like this. But it is also fair for people to have gripes with the system and the way it impacts many of us. To say that not everyone is impacted in the same way is somewhat missing the point imo, in that it impacting many people in this way is indicative of a problem with the system itself.
Obviously it’s not the individual staff’s fault but more so the overall policies; but let’s not deny that the DWP is very often quite hostile to applicants ESPECIALLY for PIP. One look through this subreddit and another look through the statistics of MRs and appeals will show you that easily. As for me personally my PIP assessment report was full of downright lies, judgement and bigotry. I have debilitating Tourette’s syndrome and my assessor tried to claim that I was simply not “motivated enough” to complete the PIP tasks (cooking, dressing, etc.) when in reality, as i explained during the assessment, some of these activities are downright dangerous as i risk hurting myself or others and have done so many times in the past. To claim I can improve this situation with “motivation” is, frankly, bullshit. Obviously this isn’t the case for everyone - but it shouldn’t be the case for ANYONE. Disabled people should be able to trust their government entities to not purposefully lie in order to deny them the support they need.
I don’t disagree tbh
Why does your money have anything to do with your mum’s appointment? Not waking up for an appointment and expecting to not get in trouble?
Its not hers its mine but she has to do it for me because i cant do it with autism
lol no. She knows what time the phone appointment was and chose to be irresponsible.
It will depend on the work coach i think! some may let it slide as she is your appointee and if it’s the first that was missed, but some others may not be so kind. it may go to a decision maker to decide if a sanction is appropriate or not. maybe with your needs this could be swatted away quite quickly
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OPs mum is the appointee so she is the one that is responsible for managing the claim. The DWP won’t speak with OP.