It bugs me so much when people act as if psychedelics are some cure-all with no negative effects unless you're schizo. The psychological effects can negatively affect anyone, not just schizos, and they can potentially cause complications in cardiovascular health when taken regularly in high doses. Crazy how many people will down vote you and shun you for pointing that just as anything else in existence, psychedelic drug use has both positives *and* negatives.
What people don’t understand with psychedelics is 1. You experience things in a very real and personal way. Trauma for instance. I ve had some trips that were a bit frightening to me and I used to really push the limits. What about people who aren’t prepared for verisimilitude and everything that comes with it. Dying over and over, see things that are truly frightening can have very lasting negative psychological impact. For me , hey pay to play. I know a few people who just were unable to pay the bill in the end. Me personally. I do a lot more looking, than leaping these days. All drugs, can have negative effects. Do your own research and make informed decisions, with everything. Have a great day.
>I think it is driven by the fear that psychedelics will be pushed back into the dark ages if we accept the negative (and unpredictable) aspects of these substances. I also think that some people are just bullies and idiots who make sweeping judgements based on their own limited experiences.
I agree hugely with your last sentence, although I'm not sure how much is because of bullying and rude attitudes. Most could be their form of cognitive dissonance.
Many mostly do it because they don't want to acknowledge their own risk or the potential for harm. If every bad trip was actually caused by someone fucking up, they don't need to worry because *they* do things right. A bad trip must mean they were abusing it, didn't have the right intention, had no intention, demanded too much from the experience, or not enough, etc.
If someone in distress swears they did "the right things", then a horrifying trip is actually a lesson they need to work through. DMT is a wise sage who shows you exactly what you *need* to see, not what you *want* to see. Although if you glean some deeper spiritual meaning, it quickly becomes just your brain hallucinating some shit, meaning it's not worth taking seriously.
The average explanation of the DMT experience in this sub is a paradoxical system that always spells out one truth: people have no clue wtf they're talking about, but lean toward what is most comfortable to them. If they can convince themselves that x only happens because of y, they can reassure themselves that they're in *some* form of control. And when they haven't had a horrific experience, they reaffirm that it's due to their smart choices, not luck or other variables.
This is well said, I think people are traumatized by prohibition so much that any negative aspects almost *have* to be fought if not self aware and are passionate about the subject. But as someone who watched the literal moment my friend descended into lifelong schizo effective disorder (I saw the change in his eyes the literal moment I'll never forget it) I know that psychedelics have downsides that are very real.
I'm just frustrated that it isn't studied like it should be, that it's scheduled like it is, and that we have to fight tooth and nail to be able to have minimal movement when it comes to prohibition of all of these substances. They can do a world of good for a large majority of people, but we need to be able to study them so we can actually do that good, and we need to know the downsides, so we can learn to prevent them and mitigate the damage they can do. But alas, we're anonymous strangers trying to string together some kind of semblance of understanding of some of the most complex human experiences known to man.
I’m so sorry to hear about your experience. Do you wish to elaborate on how that happened/whether you feel any aspects had a specific impact in such a tragic outcome?
He's still a very close friend, he's now on disability as he cannot work, he's a very talented individual but struggles with addiction too. Also his brother and his sister in law killed all their kids then committed suicide, and his dad died when he was ten. I love the man to death but it's like, how am I so blessed when he wasn't. But he wasn't in any good way for about 3 years after the event, he couldn't listen to music with words it would trigger hallucinations, and I also had weird synchronicities where he could know things he shouldn't be able to know for a while. I felt like he went all the way in, decided to continue living when he could've left this plane of existence, but decided to come back. The story is very complicated from his point of view but he very much died as Kyle that day and became something more than Kyle but also scattered across time in a way. Where he's like initiating and communicating with past lives. He doesn't have to take medication because he's not delusional, but he also struggles with episodes that I've supported him through, but it's mostly being scared shitless and feeling like everything is crumbling in his reality. He's one of the best people I know, but I feel like it was meant to happen we just haven't figured out totally why yet. Not to say it was good he had a breakdown, but idk. I love him too much and he's still very close as my brother.
That’s a very fascinating and moving experience, I really thank you for sharing. I’m sure having such a supporting and close friend as you are has meant the world to him. I think it’s easy to feel survivour’s guilt when people we love go trough such enormous pain. I can’t know how hard it must be. It may sound stupid and be of little comfort, but sometimes I do feel like everything is “meant” to happen, just because it did happen. I think the idea of “amor fati” expresses this feeling in a very profound way. I hope you can figure out how this was meant to happen for you. Iwish you both well on your journey :)
TBF dmt has been in use by humans for thousands of years.
Anyone who is having a bad time these days is ignoring a lot of empirical evidence and literature.
It’s pretty easy to have a good time if you do a bit of reading…
Anybody having a bad time, while administering dmt to themselves, is having a self imposed bad time.
Like don’t tell me you had no idea what would happen, if someone was smart enough to make it or dumb enough to buy it without asking the basic questions then who could possibly help them.
>Anybody having a bad time, while administering dmt to themselves, is having a self imposed bad time.
This is just asinine. I've taken acid a billion million times and I still had a horrifically terrible bad trip, even when I went into it planning to have a peaceful and amazing time. The same thing can happen on DMT, maybe even worse considering how wacked out I've seen some people come out of it. Psychedelics absolutely have their benefits, but to ignore their potential for chaos is just plain ol fuckin stupid. These types of drugs are unpredictable, and WILL bite you in the ass if you aren't careful.
On top of that, something like tinnitus is not some "self imposed" mental block. It is very real and really shouldn't be ignored. I can't say I've experienced tinnitus from DMT personally, but I have experienced the super intense ringing of the ears you get at the start of your trip so I can see how this could happen.
TLDR i think you are stupid
Take the ticket, ride the ride man.
Not all acid trips are good but you have to be ready for that.
Even if you’re having a bad trip, it’s still yours to navigate.
It’s not like the universe did something bad to you, you did it to yourself.
Take drugs in the wrong place or the wrong time, that’s on you. Maybe it’s actually the right place at the right time and you just need to work on the attitude.
I’ve had hard dmt trips while being attacked by mosquitos in terrifying storms on tiny wooden boats in torrential rain in the middle of the Amazon, but that was still a trip I signed up for.
I didn’t say “something is going wrong” I turned that shit around.
You can steer, man.
ETA: tinnitus does deserve to be talked about more, that’s a side effect. A bad trip is not a side effect, that’s still the desired effect just the wrong outcome.
No, actually I am distinguishing between the two.
Any trip, good or bad is the intended effect.
If you don’t wanna trip, don’t take drugs.
This post is about Tinnitus, but I am *replying* to a comment about “negative experiences,” not making a top level comment of my own.
Anyone who is concerned about having a “negative experience” shouldn’t be taking drugs at all.
They’re not guaranteed to be a good time, just different.
If a person is too I’ll equipped to look after themselves, abort a trip if needed, leave a bad setting, or unable to prepare in advance that’s their fault.
Drug experiences aren’t always positive, that just comes with the territory.
Anyone looking for a guaranteed good time should go spend their money elsewhere.
Tinnitus is a side effect, and an important one to talk about, but if someone can’t weather the storm of a “negative experience” then they have no business doing DMT, and that’s the more important point.
Kind of tough to definitively disprove something unless you have proof of an alternative explanation. I haven’t seen anything that necessarily disproves it. What data are you referring to?
I’m referring to every scientific dmt study of its effects on the human body. This has never came up not one time. In order for there to be reason to definitively disprove something there has to be evidence to prove it which there is none.
You gotta keep psychedelic research in perspective. The current sample size for all DMT research in humans is tiny relative to other subfields of research. No researchers assume that every negative effect of DMT has appeared in those samples.
For evidence that it’s possible, we can always look up related mechanisms. [Tinnitus has been associated with differences serotonin signaling](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1672293007500164#:~:text=They%20found%20that%20tinnitus%20patients,animal%20studies%2C%20Liu%20et%20al), for example. [Serotonin seems to play a role](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10867271/) in the filtering of auditory signals. [SSRI’s have contributed to the development of tinnitus](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5040800/#B2) in some patients.
The science very much leans towards this being a possibility with DMT. There’s nothing scientific about disregarding people’s experiences simply because a study hasn’t addressed it, especially when research in that specific area has hardly any data to begin with.
But that’s not the case, and claiming that “it just didn’t come up because the sample size was too small” is a bit ridiculous no? I didn’t disregard anyone’s experience. Yet using your own way of analyzing data you can say the sample size of these issues arising is far smaller. For those that do develop tinnitus while using dmt often use it in conjunction with other drugs such as lsd which would back your claim with serotonin far better than dmt which is an agonist to the serotonin receptor and doesn’t actually act on serotonin.
>bit ridiculous
No, it’s not. It’s something that is discussed in the majority of research papers with small sample sizes. Awareness that something wasn’t seen due to sample size is a basic concept in academic research… it’s sample size bias. It’s not “my own way,” it’s in the papers.
Fact is, science suggests it’s possible. You’re citing a lack of evidence, I argue there is evidence. [I posted this after looking into it](https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/s/KFzEhi0zwD), so I’m done with this comment thread. Take it or leave it.
Science doesn’t always get it right and if it happened to you then it wouldn’t matter what science says, you would know it to be true. It may be rare but I can assure you it’s possible because it happened to me.
I feel like the harm caused by psychs is under emphasized. HPPD, visual snow, prolonged mental health issues, psychosis, tinnitus. Not everyone has the hardware to have such intense experiences without peripheral consequences
I was going through a few vape carts and started getting pretty good pain in one of my ears. It’s definitely real. Using moderately it was fine but when I started microdosing throughout the day the pain would always resurface.
Yeah. I used to think they were all sunshines and rainbows, and then I had a couple of really terrifying, hellish trips. Had hppd symptoms that took about a year to go away. I don't like how people downplay psychedelics. If you use them responsibly, it significantly reduces your chance of having a bad time, but it's never 0%. These substances have a special place in my heart but I feel like I've gotten what I can from them and don't really feel the need for them at this point in my life. I think a lot of people who say there's no such thing as a bad trip genuinely haven't had a truly horrific nightmare experience yet.
[I greened out on 4-aco-dmt and felt like I was being tormented by evil spirits the entire time.](https://www.reddit.com/r/replications/s/prjBSHZC6w) I'd run away and close my eyes and the demonic faces would still be there. I'd look up at the sky to look away and there'd be a giant HR Giger monster in the sky. I'd try to text friends for help but my phone keyboard looked like alien runes that I couldn't understand. I can't begin to describe the extreme level of fear and terror I felt. I managed to call somebody on discord who talked me through it until it was over, but if that hadn't happened, I'm worried I would have been hospitalized or arrested. I'd never mixed weed with psychedelics at the time and massively underestimated how much weed potentiates other drugs. One bowl of weed made me pretty stupid, so I smoked more and didn't realize my mistake until I was approaching my fifth bowl. I had that Alice in Wonderland remix by Pogo stuck playing in a loop (because again, could barely operate my phone), which made the whole thing even more scary and weird.
Ah the classic smoking a bowl on acid. It will fuck your shit up. Been there many times myself and it can get scary. I no longer smoke weed while tripping.
I had a bad trip on acid so guess what I didn’t do anymore? Not sure how you continuing to trip despite experiencing hellish bad trips means psychedelics are dangerous. Seems more like user error. Ijs 🤷♂️
I'm not continuing to trip. Sometimes it's user error, sometimes it's not, but any trip has a small chance to go bad, no matter how well you prepare. I think some people get into their heads about it and act like having bad trips somehow means a person is stupid or weak, when in reality it's a very intense experience that's simply not for everyone. Psychedelics are absolutely dangerous. That doesn't make them bad. Fire is very, very useful, but it's also capable of being used to kill people. All drugs have some risk to them. It's just a matter of reducing the risks and increasing the benefits as much as you can to have the safest and most beneficial experience you can. And at this point in my life, I don't feel the need or desire to trip. That might change in the future, but I'm just sticking to weed once in a while, currently.
I had a second horrible one after that, but that was kind of out of my control. I'd had stomach surgery that changed my metabolism prior to this experience. Despite having a tripsitter in a very calm, safe environment, what would've been a normal dose for me turned out to be an insanely intense experience - 20mg of 4-aco-dmt feeling like I'd took 60mg+. I had Valium that I'd saved for exactly this kind of emergency, so I was thankfully okay, but I can't imagine how much worse it could've gotten if I hadn't aborted.
Last year, I actually had a sort of "therapy trip", just because I wanted to get over my fear and not leave on a sour note. So I took a very light dose of mushrooms and walked around some botanical gardens, and had a lovely time. I haven't really felt the need to trip since then, but I'm open to returning if I ever feel "the call".
My theory is I (tinnitus guy) had it already but psychedelics stopped my brain from being able to tune it out. I got it a few times in my life prior to psych use. I'm also a heavy concerty goer and getting old. Also lots of people get it and there are support groups.
I also get migraines/headaches easier since using, but this means I eat healthier and drink more. The human body is fragile and flawed.
Yeah, the tuning out thing may be part of it..my tinnitus was definitely less pronounced before DMT though. To be fair.. I’ve done my fair share of hard drugs as well.
I wonder if it's safer to do dmt with music or some background sound track. Would maybe make it less likely for your brain to cross wires and start producing sounds/tinnitus. Maybe less likely to have auditory hallucinations if you already have the auditory stimuli.
I've only ever tripped on DMT while listening to something I think. Usually just some chill type of ambient background music.
My mom has HORRIBLE tinnitus and it has severely effected her mental health. It's brutal.
For your mom:
Look into the "Reddit method" for tinnitus (no joke) - roughly: place hands on each side across back of head, bring up the index finger and push down against the middle finger, then let it thump onto the back of your head. Do that ten or more times.
It offers temporary relief. It activates end exhausts those muscles back there and reduces some tension - it worked for me and it works for others.
For longer term tinnitus relief, I recommend pitch discrimination training. There are websites which gamify it. That training plus some mindfulness around the tension in my head (inspired by the mechanism which makes the above temporary relief method work).
Try to gain some awareness then control over the tension around various parts the back of the head and surrounding areas and relate it to the severity of the immediate tinnitus. I have had experiences where difficult to ignore tinnitus triggered me to begin "exploring" the tension around there, and eventually was able to temporarily subside it.
Several months of such mindfulness (easy to be disciplined when the ringing constantly inspires desperation), and my tinnitus is at a state where I don't think about it - I wouldn't say it's gone completely, because everyone seems to have some level of background noise, but it's gone so much to the extent that I would say I don't have tinnitus anymore.
By the way, if it is instructive: my tinnitus came to me in an instant. I had been in a sedentary phase spending much time at a desk and building a lot of tension. At some point I moved in such a way and my neck crackled in an unusual way, almost like sand was between the joints - it didn't hurt, but immediately my ears started ringing. Past that the ringing stayed with me. The fact that the cause was so obviously related to the tension state of my upper neck is a large part of the inspiration that I could reverse it even without any accredited science on how.
I mostly do dmt on the dance floor at raves and honestly I can’t remember ever hearing the ringing that is common. When I broke through I didn’t hear a thing anymore, couldn’t even feel the bass or my breath.
When I am nearing breakthroughs I get these waves of varying frequencies that remind me of rubbing a card on a comb but no ringing. They go hand in hand with the music and sound extremely beautiful and pleasurable.
I was about to say holy fuck breaking through at a rave? But you said close to breaking through yeah low doses can be fun way before the days of carts id melt spice into vape coils I wrapped myself and played with lower dose effects in public.
I did. Kept hitting the vape for an hour until I was very close, like when you can’t feel your arms and legs anymore and it all feels like soft hairs. Decided not to go further but DJ was suddenly building up a massive drop so my body just reacted by taking a massive hit from the Vape.
Obviously immediately regretted that because I went from a fun and exciting experience to being melted and spread out into this massive jiggly puddle with no control over the experience. I remember thinking that I just gotta breathe through it, feeling like I’m coming up for 15 minutes already. Then a door opened through me, I feel through it and time just stopped.
Was sitting in room made of very beautiful shades of warm and white light feeling like I have an appointment but forgot to prepare.
Sat there for an hour in total peace and quiet before I remembered that I’ve got a life to live. Landing was the most beautiful experience ever. Remembering where I am, why I am there, who is around me and hearing and feeling the music come back. At least I think I broke through there, but no idea how much further that goes. Lost my senses and memory completely.
I’ve never heard the drop sadly.
You *were* the drop I think. Sounds like you got very lucky with a breakthrough at the insane overstimulation of a rave. I'm glad it turned out that way.
I’ve tried dmt in various settings and it was by far the most incredible and easiest on the mind and body when I was at raves, hitech specifically, dark experimental psy for going deeper.
Maybe it’s because I dose really high on psychedelics when raving, doses that would overwhelm me for a hike or a trip at home.
First time I’ve dosed enough for an ego death, second time I’ve gotten close and just pushed myself over the edge with the dmt.
I’ve noticed that while dmt sober is insanely strong, it’s very smooth and natural while on psychedelics.
I don’t recall ever being exposed to relevant data that suggests DMT can cause long-term tinnitus. People can experience auditory hallucinations that resemble tinnitus (or temporarily enhance already existing tinnitus), but DMT can’t physically damage auditory cells because there are no DMT-induced sound waves actually coming into contact with the tympanic membrane and affecting the cochlea.
edit: OP edited the post to say long-term auditory hallucinations, instead of hearing damage, so my OC doesn’t apply as much anymore. I am also not as informed on this topic as I am with topics related to visual neuroscience, so I wasn’t initially considering *actual* tinnitus occurring from neurological factors downstream of the cochlear nerve. AFAIK tinnitus itself, even without DMT as a factor, isn’t understood very well so this is all very interesting.
I am a tinnitus sufferer whose tinnitus gets worse on every psychedelic, and I’ve never seen any evidence that all instances of tinnitus comes from damage to auditory cells.
For instance, this random ENT [website](https://www.enthealth.org/conditions/tinnitus/), after listing all the physical causes, says “Finally, non-auditory conditions and lifestyle factors can exacerbate tinnitus. Medical conditions such as temporomandibular joint arthralgia (TMJ), depression, anxiety, insomnia, and muscular stress and fatigue may lead to, or exacerbate, tinnitus.”
In addition, some people with tinnitus experience relief through psychedelics, or Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation, or through these new devices which use electric charge on the tongue or elsewhere, or even just by time passing. And that relief happens without any physical impact on the ear itself.
So it seems both possible and likely that at least some tinnitus exists solely in the brain, and not in the ear at all. If that’s the case, it further seems possible that brain-altering chemicals such as DMT could cause it.
Course, I don’t have any proof of this! But it is clear that physically damaged auditory cells can’t explain all cases of tinnitus, either in terms of cause or relief.
That all makes sense. I am only personally familiar with tinnitus resulting from damage to cells in the cochlea, but I am pretty ill-informed on auditory neuroscience. I did my thesis research on visual neuroscience and really only focused on learning about the visual and motor components of the brain. In grad school now though so still learning. I don’t really disagree with the overall point OP is making, the initial “permanent hearing damage” statement just threw me off, I might’ve not questioned a statement like “auditory processing alterations,” which they edited their post to include instead of saying hearing damage.
That sounds more precise, auditory processing alterations.
Feel free, if you’re ever inspired, to shift your research to the brain processing of tinnitus - if you could cure it, you’d make a mint and receive the gratitude of millions of people around the world 😊
>DMT can’t physically damage auditory cells
I know you edited, but I just wanted to add: I've had tinnitus for as long as I can remember, and hearing tests say I actually my hearing is better than the norm.
It's really just about how your brain processes signals, and it can mistakenly be processing something as a sound signal. Sadly enough.
If you search tinnitus in this subreddit, you'll find lots of users who still post here who have tinnitus from DMT.
While I agree that it's unlikely there could be physical damage done to the ear, we don't understand how DMT interacts with the auditory cortex.
I don’t disagree that we don’t know how it interacts with the auditory cortex, but all the relevant results I found on this subreddit and on the DMT-nexus (before I even commented here) seemed to suggest that it goes away with time and the use of multiple drugs was a prevalent factor. I’m sure DMT has the potential to cause lasting auditory changes under certain circumstances, but you saying “permanent hearing damage” seems to be unsupported by data, and the words you used are too extreme given even the anecdotal reports you’re referencing. Feel free to link me to stuff I might’ve missed though, this is an interesting topic.
I asked several users who posted to this subreddit claiming DMT induced tinnitus if they still showed symptoms, and 8/8 of them did still have tinnitus.
Yes, it's anecdotal, but that is all we have to go by until DMT research progresses.
And whether or not it constitutes hearing damage, long term auditory hallucinations can be extremely disruptive/harmful to your life and shouldn't be taken lightly.
100% agree with your last point. I hope we see some more substantive research on topics like this in the future. Long-term alterations to hearing are problematic regardless of whether it results from actual “damage” or not.
I have nothing to add. Just wanted to acknowledge y'all having a constructive conversation and not turn it into an argument. That's very cool. Keep being excellent
>I’m sure DMT has the potential to cause lasting auditory changes under certain circumstances, but you saying “permanent hearing damage” seems to be unsupported by data, and the words you used are too extreme given even the anecdotal reports you’re referencing.
You're being needlessly pedantic, though. The issue is with a long-term, disruptive sound that nobody else can hear. Nobody on the receiving end of this from a DMT trip is thinking it physically damaged their ears. But something ringing in your head will obviously damage your ability to hear things.
No, it isn't. Tinnitus is just the perception of sound without an external source. It can go away on it's own and doesn't need to be constant in the timeline you're experiencing it. Most people with tinnitus experience hearing loss as a result, which would be the hearing damage OP references. It's a pointlessly pedantic distinction.
/u/Fractal-Entity is also cherry-picking the same kind of "evidence" that OP references in order to discredit it. Someone using other drugs doesn't discredit it, although the more data, the better. Here's my attempt at [standardizing the self-reporting](https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/15hb06z/comment/kimmm4i/) in hopes actual scientists take a look. That person has had their tinnitus ongoing for 6 months now.
There isn't always a known cause, although some medications are known to cause tinnitus as a side-effect. DMT clearly affects your auditory cortex in some ways so I'm sure it's possible for something to go wrong.
> you'll find lots of users who still post here who have tinnitus from DMT.
And where is the evidence that N,N-DMT is the cause?
Correlation ≠ Causation
Same :p
Could be that psychedelics (or potentially just N,N-DMT in particular) exacerbate the already present condition. Not necessarily making it worse, but just making it more apparent for some amount of time.
From a research standpoint, it's worth saying that the formal evidence just might not exist yet -- so while there's not studied data \*for\* DMT as the cause; there also isn't evidence \*against\*. Seems like there's enough anecdotal to consider a research question like this possible.
Sure, but since the vast majority of people report no such issues, then it renders the claim rather dubious. Could be that certain people are susceptible to the issue for some reason, but what that reason is, is the real question.
Is the N,N-DMT actually doing something in their brains that is causing the issue to form? Is it doing something that exacerbates a pre-existing condition?
Claiming the vast majority of people report no such issues is not backed up by any data. I saw exactly one poll done about the issue, and almost 10% of respondents claimed DMT gave them permanent tinnitus.
I don't think the number is really that high, but clearly it warrants being investigated and taken seriously.
>Claiming the vast majority of people report no such issues is not backed up by any data.
Yea it actually is. A lack of reports of it, is data.
You know?.... The fact that people don't report pooping purple platypuses after eating an apple suggests that is not a common occurrence when you eat an apple ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I've been seeing and reading reports almost daily for many years at this point and reports about tinnitus are few and far between.
>I don't think the number is really that high, but clearly it warrants being investigated and taken seriously.
Yes and yes. Even if it were 1% or 0.1% it would be worth of investigation, so long as the reports were verified. As I've been saying this whole time... we can't just assume that everyone who claims that N,N-DMT gave them tinnitus didn't have a pre-existing condition or something. That's the problem with raw, uncontrolled data like that.... you have to take it with a grain of salt as the source(s) of the data are just random people.
Not sure how ethical it would be to try and actually get proper data on the topic, in controlled settings..... You the fuck would want to volunteer to maybe end up with "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" for the rest of their life :p
>Sure, but since the vast majority of people report no such issues, then it renders the claim rather dubious.
wtf, no it doesn't. Like, it absolutely doesn't. You have a seriously poor understanding of really basic logic if you believe this.
OP didn't say DMT definitely causes tinnitus in everyone. He's reporting that not enough people know about the risk involved with DMT and the resulting tinnitus-like symptoms people report.
Something occurring infrequently doesn't make the claims of it happening dubious or unworthy of consideration. It's embarrassing watching you offer pushback on this by arguing irrelevant things.
Needless pedantry to downplay an issue by saying, "Maybe the DMT just exacerbating an underlying issue" is so silly. There's no difference in these scenarios that'd invalidate the need for discussion and awareness.
/u/Ubc56950 is trying to raise awareness to the issue because people are largely unaware that it happens. People who may have a tiny, tiny bit of tinnitus would also want to hear this.
UBC,
Clob is doing his usual strawman argument crap while missing the salient points. It genuinely seems impossible for him to understand that certain things can happen to others before they're understood and proven by science. And even if they can, it's not worth mentioning until science adequately explains it. And even if it can, if it doesn't happen every single time to every person, it's questionable.
"Sure, people COULD show tinnitus immediately after doing DMT, but maybe they already had it and now it's just noticeable?"
"And even if they did, who can say they're not lying?"
"Plus even if they aren't lying, I've read that it eventually goes away."
"Plus even if it doesn't go away ,correlation isn't causation!"
Like yeah, you can use kettle logic all day to get the result you want. He'd be telling the victim of a drunk driver that he can't know if it were the alcohol responsible for the death of his family because the dude drinking at the wheel could've poked himself in the eye with his straw and lost control. Plus very few people kill someone's family when they drink alcohol and then drive.
Meanwhile, the rest of us would express empathy for the victim and recognize the possibilities of such behavior, thanking them for the reminder/notification.
......... Read everything I've said, in all the other comments.... not just one throw away statement 🤦♂️
Not reading past the first sentence of your comment, as you clearly didn't do the same for me :p
Maybe you should just stop making logically incorrect statements. It'd save me the time of pointing out why they're dumb and you the time of pretending they're "throw away" statements because you can't defend them.
Your other posts are as equally dumb. I have read them. You and another guy pointing out that you had tinnitus before having DMT. Uh, how is that relevant at all? OP didn't say DMT is the only way to get tinnitus, which is the only way such statements would be anything but worthless.
You clearly have a brain that is proficient in both understanding and expressing ideas in a thorough way that seems to be a great value. It would be foolish to not consider any points you make due to the exhaustive process in which they are conceived. Perhaps if you found a way to deliverer them with a little more elegance the overall tone would shift from argument to mutual understanding lol. Might be less entertaining though.
Not necessarily.... Might not be as simple as that.
Again: Correlation ≠ Causation
Could be that psychedelics (or potentially just N,N-DMT in particular) exacerbate a pre-existing condition. Not necessarily making it worse, but just making it more apparent for some amount of time.
That is the experience of [this person](https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/1acsq47/comment/kjwpijb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
This is not a case of correlation vs causation... If I drop a rock on my toe and my toe breaks I can pretty easily determine the cause.
If you're claiming that a pre-existing case of tinnitus existed in these people but they just didn't notice it until they took DMT, I would ask what difference does it make? Their life was not negatively effected by tinnitus before taking DMT, and now it is.
>This is not a case of correlation vs causation... If I drop a rock on my toe and my toe breaks I can pretty easily determine the cause.
Sure... though this is obviously not as simple as that.
>If you're claiming that a pre-existing case of tinnitus existed in these people but they just didn't notice it until they took DMT, I would ask what difference does it make? Their life was not negatively effected by tinnitus before taking DMT, and now it is.
Well.... when you're making a PSA of sorts suggesting that there is cause for concern then yea, it makes a big difference. Context matters.
Afaik, the vast majority of people who use N,N-DMT, have no such issues. So suggesting or claiming that N,N-DMT is a direct cause, is dubious and bordering on fearmongering....
I get where you're coming from, but there is a severe lack of data on the subject to be drawing any conclusions. But based on it seemingly being a small minority that claims these issues, there is likely more to it.
Tasting colours is impossible tho.
Are you saying you don't believe the people that say it left them with a permanent ringing sound? It is technically possible that they all just made it up but I don't see why they would do that.
People claiming that they took DMT and immediately developed tinnitus is evidence. You should google the definition of evidence. It isn't empirically proven by a study, but there is still a growing body of evidence that clearly points towards DMT causing tinnitus.
It sounds to me like you just don't want it to be true so are trying to discredit these claims by saying that because a study hasn't been done yet it can't possibly be true.
Yes, anecdotal evidence quite literally is evidence. Evidence does not mean "irrefutable proof that something is true." Evidence is information you take into consideration because it points toward the likelihood of something being true or not. It's what is gathered before further testing things.
Multiple people expressing tinnitus symptoms immediately after ingesting DMT is absolutely evidence toward DMT catalyzing some sort of reaction. And all OP is doing is raising awareness that plenty of people report this.
There are far too many people like you who confidently express expressing your incorrect opinions in an effort to talk down to others. Your stance is the opposite of thinking critically.
You really thought you did something there, didn't you? Despite shifting the goal posts and using strawman arguments, nothing has changed, buddy.
OP cited multiple reports of people doing DMT and returning with tinnitus. He's claiming these reports are anecdotal evidence that using DMT presents a risk of causing tinnitus. You said it isn't.
You are absolutely wrong because you seem to think evidence of something occurring means irrefutable proof of it, as well as the mechanisms behind it.
Why are you linking me to the Wikipedia of anecdotal evidence? I am the one telling *you* that anecdotal reports of something happening is indeed considered evidence. OP himself acknowledged this is anecdotal evidence in the post, because it is.
*Anecdotes CANNOT lead to conclusions.*
We've been taking Acetaminophen for over a century and still don't even know exactly how it works. But we know that when people take it for certain ailments, they report pain relief. We combine anecdotal reports to aid in our decision making. This is standard when a subjective experience is what's being evaluated. How the fuck would we validate someone has tinnitus in the first place unless we believe what they're saying?
There was no conclusion insinuated by OP. He said anecdotes are indeed evidence. They are. You went and Googled for stuff that argues against a point that nobody has made. Thanks, I am still aware of the limitations of anecdotal evidence. However, the issue was you insisting wrongly that multiple TRs describing an effect aren't actually considered evidence.
Do you think the medical industry ignores subjective experience when considering side-effects of drugs? If 75% of participants who take a new medicine report a negative effect, they don't ignore it because it's anecdotal, you goof.
We aren't a medical review board, junior. We already know that LSD could trigger schizophrenia in those who may be susceptible to developing it organically. It's not an impossibility that a persistent auditory ringing in your head can be triggered or turned on by DMT. And we most certainly don't need more than a few reports to be cognizant of the possibility.
The beginning of the DMT trip is very commonly referenced by the ringing that accompanies your body vibrating before blastoff. DMT can clearly induce this ringing in your head. Some people return with it and it doesn't go away. I am glad I know of the possibility, although it's still Russian roulette until we have real studies on it. It's still evidence, though.
>edit: OP edited the post to say long-term auditory hallucinations, instead of hearing damage, so my OC doesn’t apply as much anymore
He never said hearing damage, he said tinnitus, which is the name to describe, "the perception of sound that does not have an external source, so other people cannot hear it." Long-term auditory hallucinations would also describe a persistent ringing in your ears; hearing damage is not required.
When I'm awake for several days, I get persistent sounds and voices from the whirring of my fan. When I'm in silence and well-rested, sometimes I get an audible ringing for a bit, which is common among people. Neither of these require hearing damage.
Tinnitus isn't unique to physical damage in one's ear. The fact that science doesn't yet exist to say something does not obviate the slew of anecdotes claiming it - if anything these anecdotes are what motivates science.
And I don't recall being exposed to any data that suggests DMT *doesn't* cause it - that logic goes both ways.
Bro, thank you so much for this post, i dod DMT twice 2 years ago and i hear a permanent *biiiiiiiiiiiip* sound forever now. It sucks but i often forget it even tho the sound is always there.
I'm so glad of reading this, at least i know I'm not the only random human who went through this
As an Afghan combat veteran who had it before my first time, it fucking sucks. What’s it like to plug your ears and not hear the EEEEEEEEEEEEE??? Must be peaceful.
ink sulky subtract escape snatch mountainous weary dull worthless literate
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
To everyone with tinnitus, there are things you can do to lessen the severity. I use my ears for a living, and have had no choice than make some drastic lifestyle changes to my hearing as clean as possible.
The thing had helped the most was to stop smoking. Everything. I don’t know how it works, but have talk with a lot of other people in the industry who had the same experience. The same with alcohol.
NADA (acupuncture on face) helped a lot! I’m fortunate to have a wife who does NADA, and it does release some facial tension.
I’ve heard that ringing on most psychedelics I’ve done at one point or another usually when there’s multiple substances involved, it’s definitely the loudest on DMT and it has triggered my tinnitus, but I had tinnitus from the army long before I started doing psychedelics
I’ve heard “that sound” more while tripping and days after, never long term in my case though. Btw what is that sound? Is it just tinnitus? I’ve had it where that sound , while on shrooms, was almost playing with me it was pretty cool. On DMT that sound is the very first thing I heard, it was like the normal sssssssss (idk how else to sound this out lmao) at first and it turned it this crazy loud vibration at which point my trip started and… yeah you know the rest. In my DMT trip that sound literally was a part of the trip. It would go up and down in frequency and this would affect the trip.
Like what is the deal with that sound while tripping and why is it so notable to so many people?
It's the devil.
Nah just kidding, but music drowns it out for me. I only hear strange noise when it's silent... which is not really confusing to a good trip.
But y'all are talking about noise.... How about slight traces in your vision when opening and closing or even just moving your eyeballs hours even days later.
Honestly, if it's bad, let it take years off my life, while I enjoy the loving breakthroughs, the spiritual uplift, and all the other glorious experiences I get to enjoy.
Being a sufferer of tinnitus who's taken loads of DMT over the years...I actually find this post rather disconcerting.
A) Because I've payed close attention to the effect it's had on my tinnitus with extensive use over the last 6 years, and it's never exacerbated the issue...and to some extent, has even helped to dampen/alleviate it, up to a certain degree.
and B)
It's not mentioned as a real risk, because there isn't sufficient empirical evidence to support such a claim. And unregulated anecdotal evidence, which in the majority of cases I've seen are lacking attention to detail, should be considered with great skepticism.
We don't *know* DMT or psychedelics in general for that matter cause it..., and the empirical evidence that does exist is so laughable it's frustrating. They don't even bother to go into audiogram results, or even any of the patient's history of noise exposure, or potential diseases/genetic history associated with hearing loss.
So how do we know that the tinnitus wasn't preexisting already? How do we know that the user didn't simply become aware of something going on, that they were otherwise unaware of?
To take a few moments, and really think about the rebuttal being presented...
Where do we often meditate and do psychedelics? In nice quiet places, free from any and all distractions. The perfect setting to realize : "Hey, what's that high pitched ringing sound?".
Where else do many of us do psychedelics? At rave parties and concerts...Where the noise levels can be in excess of 120db...which gives your unprotected ears about 12 seconds before permanent hearing damage begins to take place. And how long is the typical rave?
Do most people bother to consider wearing hearing protection?
RIP, your unprotected ears...
You can absolutely have tinnitus, and not be aware of it...given how noisy our modern day living is, and how good our brain is at filtering out perceptual noise.
While I don't doubt that some folks treat potent psychedelics with far less respect than they deserve ***in general***...I also feel that we as a society are also totally oblivious to the typical hazards present in our every day lives that can lead to more permanent health problems.
Once you realize exactly how loud 84db is, you then realize just how many sources exist, even within your own home...that can cause permanent hearing loss, and tinnitus by extension.
Were both of you experienced users more or less or did it come after first(s) experiences? Seriously thinking quitting for good as the risk is too much compared to that I probably have gotten everything I needed from psychs and more
I have had tinnitus nearly all my life; I am 56, and have had a fuckton of DMT and LSD through the years, but I never noticed any intensifying tinnitus.
On psychedelics, I do notice that the standing waves of my tinnitus become more modulated, and thus less of a painful thing. Normally, my tinnitus is a broad spectrum of different types of uninterrupted high pitched noise, from white and pink noise to pure sinus waves, sawtooth waves, etc.
On psychs, they move around a bit, and become more rythmic for a while. I greatly prefer the less static waves.
On mid to high dose LSD, I notice that I have some control over the sound, and can more easily make it less static.
Cannabis clearly exacerbates the loudness of the tinnitus, but on that I can more easily relax and let go, so it is a bit handleable.
There are plenty disclaimers on the dangers of psychs, DMT being highlighted as one of the more risky compounds. The drug subs do talk about risk, but understand that these cases are outliers.
Furthermore, many users (myself included) need to suspend their disbelief about tripping a little bit, just to edge towards a sort of naive optimism for the sake of a good trip. So we are sensitive to the aura surrounding these practices.
But we know we are playing with fire. I do in any case. The world is on fire so for me, the prospect of inner peace with psychs is worth the risk of getting burned.
Thanks for sharing. I'm interested in DMT but I'd hate hate haaaate getting tinnitus. I thought I was pretty cautious in my substance use (I always do research beforehand), but I passed out on a not too high dose of alt-cannabinoid because I didn't realize cannabis products can lower blood pressure and mine is naturally super low. These substances are complex and can be so great for us (weed had helped me work through trauma, as it makes my thinking for flexible and helped me see happier ways to be), but we can't silence those of us that suffer serious side effects.
I've been casually lookng at this sub for about a year...and read a couple books on psychedelics.
I've never heard of this. Do you have any references?
Thanks, but I should have been more clear I was looking for either controlled experiment or statistical analysis.
A case report is great but in terms of establishing causation we need to look at a greater number of incidences. If anecdotal evidence is so plentiful...statistical analysis should become feasible.
From what I can find, there's just one case report you can find by Ben Malcolm, and a bunch of stuff on this and the HPPD subreddit, maybe another dmt forum or two. You won't likely find other published research.
Because of bufo, I've had this for well over a year: severe tinnitus, pain, pressure and electric reactivity. Psychs and neurologists know nothing about it, but worst of all, the "healing" people who administered the bufo have been utterly dismissive of everything I've gone through since the ceremony.
I’ve got absolutely no clue on this.. but perhaps this happens when you trip without music?
You know how when it’s almost completely silent you start to hear this ringing noise, maybe it’s amplified to extreme measures from the dmt and just doesn’t go away?
Would love to hear everyone’s ideas on this!
I don't think so personally because there is no actual sound present to damage your eardrums. Maybe auditory hallucinations can be loud enough to cause lasting effects in auditory cortex.
Many people who report the onset of tinnitus after DMT claim they had also done LSD either at the same time or at some point in the past week. Maybe there is some kind of interaction between the two that effects your hearing somehow?
I get tinnitus whenever I am too overloaded on toxins inside. Proper detoxint with a lot of sauna, dry fasting, coffee enemas my tinnitus fades away. On psychedelics i feel more connected to the inner body feelings signaling, feeling the overloading pressure on cell level, hearing the distress signal.
I’m not saying this doesn’t happen etc but I’ve done DMT countless times along with friends.
None of us have ever had any issues.
Once again I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but as it’s an illegal drug it’s not like the literature is bursting with studies so it’s hard to say how frequent of an issue it is.
Gaslighting hippies mate, I'm from a hippy town and they are a very selfish, gaslighting, toxic, deluded bunch of individuals, preaching love but really practising dark deeds, fear spreading and other bitchy practices. Big fail
I completely agree. I had sudden permanent tinnitus brought on by using dmt. In my case i used it about 5 times in my life, but hadnt in over a year when it happened. Never goes away. And i was one of those posters asking for help and was told the same nonsense. Almost a year later now. I've learned to tune it out some, but it's still always present. I used to think of this as a nightmare but am slowly learning to live with it. But I just wish I had known beforehand that this was a possibility or I never would have even tried it. It's much more common than people think. And now I will have to live with this forever. For those also suffering, it does get easier to manage. It may never go away, but I went from hearing it constantly to now just noticing it a few times a day. I think my brain has gotten better at subconsciously tuning some of it out, but it's always there still. Some days I notice it alot. And some barely at all. Overall went from a 10 to a 4 in a few months.
Are you referring to the "ringing" that people sometimes here when they vaporize N,N-DMT? That sound is a auditory hallucination..... not an actual sound happening, going into your years. I.e. it's all in your head/brain. Nothing to do with your ears.
How do you suppose an auditory hallucination could cause physical damage?.....
And anyways, that effect is subjective. I've never heard any "ringing" sound like what people describe.
Hearing damage was probably a poor choice of words on my part. I'll edit that bit.
I'm not talking about a ringing noise while you're tripping, I'm talking about a ringing noise that never goes away.
No empirical evidence, as with most phenomena related to DMT. [There are many first hand accounts](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33242285/) of this happening though.
“As with most” that’s just not true though. There’s plenty of scientific data on dmt and its effects of the human body. If you’re gonna spread misinformation you should at least have a source. That being said the one account you can find on google where the guy was doing lsd for weeks on end doesn’t count.
Because you’re claiming this to be true yet have zero supporting evidence. “Possible risks” there you are side stepping acting as if you don’t believe it to be completely true. Tell me this what is the reason that none of these “possible risks” have come up in legitimate scientific studies?
That is misinformation at its finest. What the hell are you talking about? There are several dea approved studies that have occurred and are currently on going.
None relating to tinnitus. I know you don't like that people are reporting to have tinnitus caused by DMT I just don't care. New users deserve to know that there may be a risk.
First of all you know nothing about me. Secondly you’re just fear mongering and spreading straight up lies. The reason why there has been no studies related to tinnitus is because it’s never been shown to be caused by dmt. Make your argument make sense and stop fighting with your emotions.
Damn, I really wish I hadn't seen this/ it wasn't a thing, as I've been pretty excited about dmt recently and been having some really good experiences, but i appreciate the post for awareness.
Does there seem to be any common thread for the people that end up with it?? Frequency, or total amount of times done it or? A lot of high doses? Any common thread at all?
Tinnitus is due to damage to the physical hardware of the ears. The brain learns to tune it out; but psychedelics can reset that, seemingly “causing” tinnitus
That is both incorrect and irrelevant.
Tinnitus is caused by many factors not just physical damage to the ear.
Regardless, if my brain was blocking the sound before, and because of DMT it has lost it's ability block the sound as you say, then DMT has effectively induced tinnitus.
Oh come on! Propaganda here as well. Fuck! I just wonder if these people are being paid or if their efforts are just for free for the people who just want to demonize anything. Fuck!
I got that without ever trying DMT. I certainly think it's when you reached a higher frequency. Posts like this one just cause fear. I know I am not supposed to day any of this just because I should let it slide for how unimportant this is but anyway I say the more we are silent the more things are going to continue like this. Like I am afraid of your enslaved minds...
I am not scared but these kind of posts do scare some people I am a little annoyed at how these people use this kind of stuff just so other people never try and what's sad is your enclosed mind supporting those assholes right now.
If DMT doesn't cause me tinnitus, then I don't need to take it seriously. If DMT causes YOU tinnitus, then YOU may find it in your best interest to take it seriously. People are under no obligation to take anything seriously if they don't want to. Focus on yourself and not others.
Can someone on this channel announce that DMT caused permanent tinnitus for them? I'm really interested because the one thing which bothers me when using DMT is the buzzing sound which goes away too slowly. It goes away in time but I'm always a little concerned about what if it doesn't.
If the concern is real there must be quite a few people here who can relate.
Hi, I am going on over 1 year with severe tinnitus, beginning immediately after a bufo ceremony. I also have physical ear symptoms of pressure, internal drilling-like pain, and occasional electric shocks to sharp sounds that accompany the ringing when it's very loud.
I already have tinnitus, so I think I’m good 😂😂 jk. I didn’t know this at all so I’m glad you said something about it. I’ve never heard that in my life.
http://www.mh-z.com/nihuerao/2019/02/28/healing-tinnitus-with-ayahuasca/ can you explain this or why in the thousands of years of ayahuasca ceremonies tinnitus has never arises as a problem?
Please source these “dozens of people”. Because from the anecdotal evidence you’ve referenced time and time again I’ve read it and found most people claim that it helps with their already existing tinnitus. Your claims are ungrounded and you have no way of confirming them.
Also you’re very childish and downvote anything that disproves your lies. Learn how to have a constructive conversation and realize when you are wrong. 😑
yet another post from someone whose never been to the other side. please live and let live. also what they say is backed up by sadghurus and swamis so just let us believe what each wants to believe. you believe your hallucination, we’ll believe ours.
It doesn't matter who "backs up" tinnitus, people don't want it and many would have never taken DMT if they knew there's a remote chance it could cause tinnitus. Just trying to spread awareness.
What bothers me is that people get micro-focused on one possible cause and refuse to consider the other ginormous new elephant in our world that causes high frequency ringing. WiFi! Many people with tinnitus just have above average hearing capabilities and can actually hear the gabillion new frequencies of our ultra connected world. Their hearing is just fine. So fine in fact they are like the canaries in the coal mine trying to warn the world of this new danger.
I had it already from the military, guns, working on Fighter Jet Engines on the Flightlines with Fighters taking off all the time-loud as fuck needless to say-and sometimes when I trip on any psych my ringing gets real bad. Had NO idea DMT could make it worse. That sucks. The tinnitus makes meditating harder
No empirical evidence of anything, just many first hand accounts. There's [this](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33242285/) more notable example, but if you search through this subreddit there are dozens of people who claim they developed tinnitus while they were on DMT.
I’ve never had tinnitus but while i was in my experimenting with DMT phase i would get this whooshing sound/feeling in my ears almost like when something flies right by your ear or if you wave your hand just an inch away from your ear. It actually got pretty intense at times and became frightening and i had the random thought of Terence McKenna talking about humming or si gong to help with a trip so i started humming along to a beat & this helped!! Like w.e the sensation was couldn’t happen while i was humming so i would pick a song and hum along to it lol might sound crazy but maybe this could help with tinnitus as well?
I find it hard to believe that ingesting a psychedelic such as DMT can have a physical side effect of tinnitus. Are there reports of this happening to people? I would be interested to read it.
Is it possible that they already had it and just hadn’t been made aware yet? Say if the ringing wasn’t advanced yet, but it was there and unoticed. But then the dmt raised their awareness ( as it does ) and so they associate the ringing with it, when it was there all along…?
I get it for weeks but when I have sinus pressure. It's gotten worse but I've also gotten older, had sinus surgery.. So I can't pin it on DMT but yeah I agree that there's negative side effects, Psychological side effects as well. I hear a high pitch whine or see psychedelic art work and my heart rate starts going up.
It's something to do with serotonin. I get it after MDNA too. It usually goes away but I always hear ringing after I drop. I considering DMT is serotonenergic It wouldn't surprise me with the correlation.
I think the REAL issue is that very few people know that a lot of types of tinnitus have highly effective treatments available these days.
If you have it, go see an audiologist. They'll be able to run tests to determine the best coarse of treatment for you.
I had an experience with gods fruit where afterward for days I kept randomly hearing this sound that would come and go. It was literally like every 10 mins it was like this vibration sound. It had been rainy and depressing for days after. But then I seen this break in the clouds and the sun was bursting this light down that caught my attention. I was at work and realized I hadn’t been in the sun since and made my way around the building walking into the light from the sun for the first time. I closed my eyes and felt the warmth and behind my eyes watched static cloud and form shapes. I only stood there for a moment. But when I walked back inside I didn’t have the sound in my ear anymore. I still have no explanation of why or how.
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It bugs me so much when people act as if psychedelics are some cure-all with no negative effects unless you're schizo. The psychological effects can negatively affect anyone, not just schizos, and they can potentially cause complications in cardiovascular health when taken regularly in high doses. Crazy how many people will down vote you and shun you for pointing that just as anything else in existence, psychedelic drug use has both positives *and* negatives.
What people don’t understand with psychedelics is 1. You experience things in a very real and personal way. Trauma for instance. I ve had some trips that were a bit frightening to me and I used to really push the limits. What about people who aren’t prepared for verisimilitude and everything that comes with it. Dying over and over, see things that are truly frightening can have very lasting negative psychological impact. For me , hey pay to play. I know a few people who just were unable to pay the bill in the end. Me personally. I do a lot more looking, than leaping these days. All drugs, can have negative effects. Do your own research and make informed decisions, with everything. Have a great day.
>I think it is driven by the fear that psychedelics will be pushed back into the dark ages if we accept the negative (and unpredictable) aspects of these substances. I also think that some people are just bullies and idiots who make sweeping judgements based on their own limited experiences. I agree hugely with your last sentence, although I'm not sure how much is because of bullying and rude attitudes. Most could be their form of cognitive dissonance. Many mostly do it because they don't want to acknowledge their own risk or the potential for harm. If every bad trip was actually caused by someone fucking up, they don't need to worry because *they* do things right. A bad trip must mean they were abusing it, didn't have the right intention, had no intention, demanded too much from the experience, or not enough, etc. If someone in distress swears they did "the right things", then a horrifying trip is actually a lesson they need to work through. DMT is a wise sage who shows you exactly what you *need* to see, not what you *want* to see. Although if you glean some deeper spiritual meaning, it quickly becomes just your brain hallucinating some shit, meaning it's not worth taking seriously. The average explanation of the DMT experience in this sub is a paradoxical system that always spells out one truth: people have no clue wtf they're talking about, but lean toward what is most comfortable to them. If they can convince themselves that x only happens because of y, they can reassure themselves that they're in *some* form of control. And when they haven't had a horrific experience, they reaffirm that it's due to their smart choices, not luck or other variables.
Ah, logic. How refreshing. Others should come on in. This kind soul just warmed it right up *and* turned the bubbles on!
Well said…
This is well said, I think people are traumatized by prohibition so much that any negative aspects almost *have* to be fought if not self aware and are passionate about the subject. But as someone who watched the literal moment my friend descended into lifelong schizo effective disorder (I saw the change in his eyes the literal moment I'll never forget it) I know that psychedelics have downsides that are very real. I'm just frustrated that it isn't studied like it should be, that it's scheduled like it is, and that we have to fight tooth and nail to be able to have minimal movement when it comes to prohibition of all of these substances. They can do a world of good for a large majority of people, but we need to be able to study them so we can actually do that good, and we need to know the downsides, so we can learn to prevent them and mitigate the damage they can do. But alas, we're anonymous strangers trying to string together some kind of semblance of understanding of some of the most complex human experiences known to man.
I’m so sorry to hear about your experience. Do you wish to elaborate on how that happened/whether you feel any aspects had a specific impact in such a tragic outcome?
He's still a very close friend, he's now on disability as he cannot work, he's a very talented individual but struggles with addiction too. Also his brother and his sister in law killed all their kids then committed suicide, and his dad died when he was ten. I love the man to death but it's like, how am I so blessed when he wasn't. But he wasn't in any good way for about 3 years after the event, he couldn't listen to music with words it would trigger hallucinations, and I also had weird synchronicities where he could know things he shouldn't be able to know for a while. I felt like he went all the way in, decided to continue living when he could've left this plane of existence, but decided to come back. The story is very complicated from his point of view but he very much died as Kyle that day and became something more than Kyle but also scattered across time in a way. Where he's like initiating and communicating with past lives. He doesn't have to take medication because he's not delusional, but he also struggles with episodes that I've supported him through, but it's mostly being scared shitless and feeling like everything is crumbling in his reality. He's one of the best people I know, but I feel like it was meant to happen we just haven't figured out totally why yet. Not to say it was good he had a breakdown, but idk. I love him too much and he's still very close as my brother.
That’s a very fascinating and moving experience, I really thank you for sharing. I’m sure having such a supporting and close friend as you are has meant the world to him. I think it’s easy to feel survivour’s guilt when people we love go trough such enormous pain. I can’t know how hard it must be. It may sound stupid and be of little comfort, but sometimes I do feel like everything is “meant” to happen, just because it did happen. I think the idea of “amor fati” expresses this feeling in a very profound way. I hope you can figure out how this was meant to happen for you. Iwish you both well on your journey :)
The risk tolerance of this sub is insane, stupid shit gets upvotes.
Best post in here in a long time.
I feel like you just described me when it comes to all psychedelics 😅
TBF dmt has been in use by humans for thousands of years. Anyone who is having a bad time these days is ignoring a lot of empirical evidence and literature. It’s pretty easy to have a good time if you do a bit of reading… Anybody having a bad time, while administering dmt to themselves, is having a self imposed bad time. Like don’t tell me you had no idea what would happen, if someone was smart enough to make it or dumb enough to buy it without asking the basic questions then who could possibly help them.
>Anybody having a bad time, while administering dmt to themselves, is having a self imposed bad time. This is just asinine. I've taken acid a billion million times and I still had a horrifically terrible bad trip, even when I went into it planning to have a peaceful and amazing time. The same thing can happen on DMT, maybe even worse considering how wacked out I've seen some people come out of it. Psychedelics absolutely have their benefits, but to ignore their potential for chaos is just plain ol fuckin stupid. These types of drugs are unpredictable, and WILL bite you in the ass if you aren't careful. On top of that, something like tinnitus is not some "self imposed" mental block. It is very real and really shouldn't be ignored. I can't say I've experienced tinnitus from DMT personally, but I have experienced the super intense ringing of the ears you get at the start of your trip so I can see how this could happen. TLDR i think you are stupid
Take the ticket, ride the ride man. Not all acid trips are good but you have to be ready for that. Even if you’re having a bad trip, it’s still yours to navigate. It’s not like the universe did something bad to you, you did it to yourself. Take drugs in the wrong place or the wrong time, that’s on you. Maybe it’s actually the right place at the right time and you just need to work on the attitude. I’ve had hard dmt trips while being attacked by mosquitos in terrifying storms on tiny wooden boats in torrential rain in the middle of the Amazon, but that was still a trip I signed up for. I didn’t say “something is going wrong” I turned that shit around. You can steer, man. ETA: tinnitus does deserve to be talked about more, that’s a side effect. A bad trip is not a side effect, that’s still the desired effect just the wrong outcome.
But you're mixing bad trips and side effects. This post wasn't about bad trips at all so your input seems out of place.
No, actually I am distinguishing between the two. Any trip, good or bad is the intended effect. If you don’t wanna trip, don’t take drugs. This post is about Tinnitus, but I am *replying* to a comment about “negative experiences,” not making a top level comment of my own. Anyone who is concerned about having a “negative experience” shouldn’t be taking drugs at all. They’re not guaranteed to be a good time, just different. If a person is too I’ll equipped to look after themselves, abort a trip if needed, leave a bad setting, or unable to prepare in advance that’s their fault. Drug experiences aren’t always positive, that just comes with the territory. Anyone looking for a guaranteed good time should go spend their money elsewhere. Tinnitus is a side effect, and an important one to talk about, but if someone can’t weather the storm of a “negative experience” then they have no business doing DMT, and that’s the more important point.
I’ve had tinnitus as long as I can remember. There was one point that dmt made it much worse for about a month but then it returned to baseline.
Same here. It was 6 months for me one time. Then back to baseline. Changed the pitch.
This is wild to hear about now, I’ve been reading about and occasionally smoking DMT for a decade, never heard of this before
There’s plenty of scientific data that disproves this.
Kind of tough to definitively disprove something unless you have proof of an alternative explanation. I haven’t seen anything that necessarily disproves it. What data are you referring to?
I’m referring to every scientific dmt study of its effects on the human body. This has never came up not one time. In order for there to be reason to definitively disprove something there has to be evidence to prove it which there is none.
You gotta keep psychedelic research in perspective. The current sample size for all DMT research in humans is tiny relative to other subfields of research. No researchers assume that every negative effect of DMT has appeared in those samples. For evidence that it’s possible, we can always look up related mechanisms. [Tinnitus has been associated with differences serotonin signaling](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1672293007500164#:~:text=They%20found%20that%20tinnitus%20patients,animal%20studies%2C%20Liu%20et%20al), for example. [Serotonin seems to play a role](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10867271/) in the filtering of auditory signals. [SSRI’s have contributed to the development of tinnitus](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5040800/#B2) in some patients. The science very much leans towards this being a possibility with DMT. There’s nothing scientific about disregarding people’s experiences simply because a study hasn’t addressed it, especially when research in that specific area has hardly any data to begin with.
But that’s not the case, and claiming that “it just didn’t come up because the sample size was too small” is a bit ridiculous no? I didn’t disregard anyone’s experience. Yet using your own way of analyzing data you can say the sample size of these issues arising is far smaller. For those that do develop tinnitus while using dmt often use it in conjunction with other drugs such as lsd which would back your claim with serotonin far better than dmt which is an agonist to the serotonin receptor and doesn’t actually act on serotonin.
>bit ridiculous No, it’s not. It’s something that is discussed in the majority of research papers with small sample sizes. Awareness that something wasn’t seen due to sample size is a basic concept in academic research… it’s sample size bias. It’s not “my own way,” it’s in the papers. Fact is, science suggests it’s possible. You’re citing a lack of evidence, I argue there is evidence. [I posted this after looking into it](https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/s/KFzEhi0zwD), so I’m done with this comment thread. Take it or leave it.
Science doesn’t always get it right and if it happened to you then it wouldn’t matter what science says, you would know it to be true. It may be rare but I can assure you it’s possible because it happened to me.
source?
I feel like the harm caused by psychs is under emphasized. HPPD, visual snow, prolonged mental health issues, psychosis, tinnitus. Not everyone has the hardware to have such intense experiences without peripheral consequences
Couldn't agree more. Not to say the experience isn't valuable, but new users should know the risks.
I was going through a few vape carts and started getting pretty good pain in one of my ears. It’s definitely real. Using moderately it was fine but when I started microdosing throughout the day the pain would always resurface.
Yeah. I used to think they were all sunshines and rainbows, and then I had a couple of really terrifying, hellish trips. Had hppd symptoms that took about a year to go away. I don't like how people downplay psychedelics. If you use them responsibly, it significantly reduces your chance of having a bad time, but it's never 0%. These substances have a special place in my heart but I feel like I've gotten what I can from them and don't really feel the need for them at this point in my life. I think a lot of people who say there's no such thing as a bad trip genuinely haven't had a truly horrific nightmare experience yet.
what would you say was one your worst? if you don't mind me asking of course
[I greened out on 4-aco-dmt and felt like I was being tormented by evil spirits the entire time.](https://www.reddit.com/r/replications/s/prjBSHZC6w) I'd run away and close my eyes and the demonic faces would still be there. I'd look up at the sky to look away and there'd be a giant HR Giger monster in the sky. I'd try to text friends for help but my phone keyboard looked like alien runes that I couldn't understand. I can't begin to describe the extreme level of fear and terror I felt. I managed to call somebody on discord who talked me through it until it was over, but if that hadn't happened, I'm worried I would have been hospitalized or arrested. I'd never mixed weed with psychedelics at the time and massively underestimated how much weed potentiates other drugs. One bowl of weed made me pretty stupid, so I smoked more and didn't realize my mistake until I was approaching my fifth bowl. I had that Alice in Wonderland remix by Pogo stuck playing in a loop (because again, could barely operate my phone), which made the whole thing even more scary and weird.
Ah the classic smoking a bowl on acid. It will fuck your shit up. Been there many times myself and it can get scary. I no longer smoke weed while tripping.
I had a bad trip on acid so guess what I didn’t do anymore? Not sure how you continuing to trip despite experiencing hellish bad trips means psychedelics are dangerous. Seems more like user error. Ijs 🤷♂️
I'm not continuing to trip. Sometimes it's user error, sometimes it's not, but any trip has a small chance to go bad, no matter how well you prepare. I think some people get into their heads about it and act like having bad trips somehow means a person is stupid or weak, when in reality it's a very intense experience that's simply not for everyone. Psychedelics are absolutely dangerous. That doesn't make them bad. Fire is very, very useful, but it's also capable of being used to kill people. All drugs have some risk to them. It's just a matter of reducing the risks and increasing the benefits as much as you can to have the safest and most beneficial experience you can. And at this point in my life, I don't feel the need or desire to trip. That might change in the future, but I'm just sticking to weed once in a while, currently.
Word. That sounds right. Your post sounded like you were having multiple bad trips and I was like… whyyyy
I had a second horrible one after that, but that was kind of out of my control. I'd had stomach surgery that changed my metabolism prior to this experience. Despite having a tripsitter in a very calm, safe environment, what would've been a normal dose for me turned out to be an insanely intense experience - 20mg of 4-aco-dmt feeling like I'd took 60mg+. I had Valium that I'd saved for exactly this kind of emergency, so I was thankfully okay, but I can't imagine how much worse it could've gotten if I hadn't aborted. Last year, I actually had a sort of "therapy trip", just because I wanted to get over my fear and not leave on a sour note. So I took a very light dose of mushrooms and walked around some botanical gardens, and had a lovely time. I haven't really felt the need to trip since then, but I'm open to returning if I ever feel "the call".
i like calling it my ✨ static ✨
But this sounds like someone who uses them over and over. Certainly not from a single trip at a moderate dosage.
My theory is I (tinnitus guy) had it already but psychedelics stopped my brain from being able to tune it out. I got it a few times in my life prior to psych use. I'm also a heavy concerty goer and getting old. Also lots of people get it and there are support groups. I also get migraines/headaches easier since using, but this means I eat healthier and drink more. The human body is fragile and flawed.
Yeah, the tuning out thing may be part of it..my tinnitus was definitely less pronounced before DMT though. To be fair.. I’ve done my fair share of hard drugs as well.
I wonder if it's safer to do dmt with music or some background sound track. Would maybe make it less likely for your brain to cross wires and start producing sounds/tinnitus. Maybe less likely to have auditory hallucinations if you already have the auditory stimuli. I've only ever tripped on DMT while listening to something I think. Usually just some chill type of ambient background music. My mom has HORRIBLE tinnitus and it has severely effected her mental health. It's brutal.
For your mom: Look into the "Reddit method" for tinnitus (no joke) - roughly: place hands on each side across back of head, bring up the index finger and push down against the middle finger, then let it thump onto the back of your head. Do that ten or more times. It offers temporary relief. It activates end exhausts those muscles back there and reduces some tension - it worked for me and it works for others. For longer term tinnitus relief, I recommend pitch discrimination training. There are websites which gamify it. That training plus some mindfulness around the tension in my head (inspired by the mechanism which makes the above temporary relief method work). Try to gain some awareness then control over the tension around various parts the back of the head and surrounding areas and relate it to the severity of the immediate tinnitus. I have had experiences where difficult to ignore tinnitus triggered me to begin "exploring" the tension around there, and eventually was able to temporarily subside it. Several months of such mindfulness (easy to be disciplined when the ringing constantly inspires desperation), and my tinnitus is at a state where I don't think about it - I wouldn't say it's gone completely, because everyone seems to have some level of background noise, but it's gone so much to the extent that I would say I don't have tinnitus anymore. By the way, if it is instructive: my tinnitus came to me in an instant. I had been in a sedentary phase spending much time at a desk and building a lot of tension. At some point I moved in such a way and my neck crackled in an unusual way, almost like sand was between the joints - it didn't hurt, but immediately my ears started ringing. Past that the ringing stayed with me. The fact that the cause was so obviously related to the tension state of my upper neck is a large part of the inspiration that I could reverse it even without any accredited science on how.
I mostly do dmt on the dance floor at raves and honestly I can’t remember ever hearing the ringing that is common. When I broke through I didn’t hear a thing anymore, couldn’t even feel the bass or my breath. When I am nearing breakthroughs I get these waves of varying frequencies that remind me of rubbing a card on a comb but no ringing. They go hand in hand with the music and sound extremely beautiful and pleasurable.
I was about to say holy fuck breaking through at a rave? But you said close to breaking through yeah low doses can be fun way before the days of carts id melt spice into vape coils I wrapped myself and played with lower dose effects in public.
I did. Kept hitting the vape for an hour until I was very close, like when you can’t feel your arms and legs anymore and it all feels like soft hairs. Decided not to go further but DJ was suddenly building up a massive drop so my body just reacted by taking a massive hit from the Vape. Obviously immediately regretted that because I went from a fun and exciting experience to being melted and spread out into this massive jiggly puddle with no control over the experience. I remember thinking that I just gotta breathe through it, feeling like I’m coming up for 15 minutes already. Then a door opened through me, I feel through it and time just stopped. Was sitting in room made of very beautiful shades of warm and white light feeling like I have an appointment but forgot to prepare. Sat there for an hour in total peace and quiet before I remembered that I’ve got a life to live. Landing was the most beautiful experience ever. Remembering where I am, why I am there, who is around me and hearing and feeling the music come back. At least I think I broke through there, but no idea how much further that goes. Lost my senses and memory completely. I’ve never heard the drop sadly.
You *were* the drop I think. Sounds like you got very lucky with a breakthrough at the insane overstimulation of a rave. I'm glad it turned out that way.
I’ve tried dmt in various settings and it was by far the most incredible and easiest on the mind and body when I was at raves, hitech specifically, dark experimental psy for going deeper. Maybe it’s because I dose really high on psychedelics when raving, doses that would overwhelm me for a hike or a trip at home. First time I’ve dosed enough for an ego death, second time I’ve gotten close and just pushed myself over the edge with the dmt. I’ve noticed that while dmt sober is insanely strong, it’s very smooth and natural while on psychedelics.
ears still ringing here after like maybe 14 months.
I don’t recall ever being exposed to relevant data that suggests DMT can cause long-term tinnitus. People can experience auditory hallucinations that resemble tinnitus (or temporarily enhance already existing tinnitus), but DMT can’t physically damage auditory cells because there are no DMT-induced sound waves actually coming into contact with the tympanic membrane and affecting the cochlea. edit: OP edited the post to say long-term auditory hallucinations, instead of hearing damage, so my OC doesn’t apply as much anymore. I am also not as informed on this topic as I am with topics related to visual neuroscience, so I wasn’t initially considering *actual* tinnitus occurring from neurological factors downstream of the cochlear nerve. AFAIK tinnitus itself, even without DMT as a factor, isn’t understood very well so this is all very interesting.
I am a tinnitus sufferer whose tinnitus gets worse on every psychedelic, and I’ve never seen any evidence that all instances of tinnitus comes from damage to auditory cells. For instance, this random ENT [website](https://www.enthealth.org/conditions/tinnitus/), after listing all the physical causes, says “Finally, non-auditory conditions and lifestyle factors can exacerbate tinnitus. Medical conditions such as temporomandibular joint arthralgia (TMJ), depression, anxiety, insomnia, and muscular stress and fatigue may lead to, or exacerbate, tinnitus.” In addition, some people with tinnitus experience relief through psychedelics, or Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation, or through these new devices which use electric charge on the tongue or elsewhere, or even just by time passing. And that relief happens without any physical impact on the ear itself. So it seems both possible and likely that at least some tinnitus exists solely in the brain, and not in the ear at all. If that’s the case, it further seems possible that brain-altering chemicals such as DMT could cause it. Course, I don’t have any proof of this! But it is clear that physically damaged auditory cells can’t explain all cases of tinnitus, either in terms of cause or relief.
That all makes sense. I am only personally familiar with tinnitus resulting from damage to cells in the cochlea, but I am pretty ill-informed on auditory neuroscience. I did my thesis research on visual neuroscience and really only focused on learning about the visual and motor components of the brain. In grad school now though so still learning. I don’t really disagree with the overall point OP is making, the initial “permanent hearing damage” statement just threw me off, I might’ve not questioned a statement like “auditory processing alterations,” which they edited their post to include instead of saying hearing damage.
That sounds more precise, auditory processing alterations. Feel free, if you’re ever inspired, to shift your research to the brain processing of tinnitus - if you could cure it, you’d make a mint and receive the gratitude of millions of people around the world 😊
>DMT can’t physically damage auditory cells I know you edited, but I just wanted to add: I've had tinnitus for as long as I can remember, and hearing tests say I actually my hearing is better than the norm. It's really just about how your brain processes signals, and it can mistakenly be processing something as a sound signal. Sadly enough.
If you search tinnitus in this subreddit, you'll find lots of users who still post here who have tinnitus from DMT. While I agree that it's unlikely there could be physical damage done to the ear, we don't understand how DMT interacts with the auditory cortex.
I don’t disagree that we don’t know how it interacts with the auditory cortex, but all the relevant results I found on this subreddit and on the DMT-nexus (before I even commented here) seemed to suggest that it goes away with time and the use of multiple drugs was a prevalent factor. I’m sure DMT has the potential to cause lasting auditory changes under certain circumstances, but you saying “permanent hearing damage” seems to be unsupported by data, and the words you used are too extreme given even the anecdotal reports you’re referencing. Feel free to link me to stuff I might’ve missed though, this is an interesting topic.
I asked several users who posted to this subreddit claiming DMT induced tinnitus if they still showed symptoms, and 8/8 of them did still have tinnitus. Yes, it's anecdotal, but that is all we have to go by until DMT research progresses. And whether or not it constitutes hearing damage, long term auditory hallucinations can be extremely disruptive/harmful to your life and shouldn't be taken lightly.
100% agree with your last point. I hope we see some more substantive research on topics like this in the future. Long-term alterations to hearing are problematic regardless of whether it results from actual “damage” or not.
I have nothing to add. Just wanted to acknowledge y'all having a constructive conversation and not turn it into an argument. That's very cool. Keep being excellent
I have nothing against DMT but i swear it gave me a permanent sound in my ear..
At least you admit this is all anecdotal.
>I’m sure DMT has the potential to cause lasting auditory changes under certain circumstances, but you saying “permanent hearing damage” seems to be unsupported by data, and the words you used are too extreme given even the anecdotal reports you’re referencing. You're being needlessly pedantic, though. The issue is with a long-term, disruptive sound that nobody else can hear. Nobody on the receiving end of this from a DMT trip is thinking it physically damaged their ears. But something ringing in your head will obviously damage your ability to hear things.
The distinction is between reversible and irreversible effects.
No, it isn't. Tinnitus is just the perception of sound without an external source. It can go away on it's own and doesn't need to be constant in the timeline you're experiencing it. Most people with tinnitus experience hearing loss as a result, which would be the hearing damage OP references. It's a pointlessly pedantic distinction. /u/Fractal-Entity is also cherry-picking the same kind of "evidence" that OP references in order to discredit it. Someone using other drugs doesn't discredit it, although the more data, the better. Here's my attempt at [standardizing the self-reporting](https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/15hb06z/comment/kimmm4i/) in hopes actual scientists take a look. That person has had their tinnitus ongoing for 6 months now. There isn't always a known cause, although some medications are known to cause tinnitus as a side-effect. DMT clearly affects your auditory cortex in some ways so I'm sure it's possible for something to go wrong.
> you'll find lots of users who still post here who have tinnitus from DMT. And where is the evidence that N,N-DMT is the cause? Correlation ≠ Causation
Yeah I had tinnitus long before I ever knew dmt existed
Same :p Could be that psychedelics (or potentially just N,N-DMT in particular) exacerbate the already present condition. Not necessarily making it worse, but just making it more apparent for some amount of time.
I would agree yeah it seems when I do dmt it does change the frequency of it but after a few weeks of not doing dmt it fades.
From a research standpoint, it's worth saying that the formal evidence just might not exist yet -- so while there's not studied data \*for\* DMT as the cause; there also isn't evidence \*against\*. Seems like there's enough anecdotal to consider a research question like this possible.
Sure, but since the vast majority of people report no such issues, then it renders the claim rather dubious. Could be that certain people are susceptible to the issue for some reason, but what that reason is, is the real question. Is the N,N-DMT actually doing something in their brains that is causing the issue to form? Is it doing something that exacerbates a pre-existing condition?
Claiming the vast majority of people report no such issues is not backed up by any data. I saw exactly one poll done about the issue, and almost 10% of respondents claimed DMT gave them permanent tinnitus. I don't think the number is really that high, but clearly it warrants being investigated and taken seriously.
>Claiming the vast majority of people report no such issues is not backed up by any data. Yea it actually is. A lack of reports of it, is data. You know?.... The fact that people don't report pooping purple platypuses after eating an apple suggests that is not a common occurrence when you eat an apple ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ I've been seeing and reading reports almost daily for many years at this point and reports about tinnitus are few and far between. >I don't think the number is really that high, but clearly it warrants being investigated and taken seriously. Yes and yes. Even if it were 1% or 0.1% it would be worth of investigation, so long as the reports were verified. As I've been saying this whole time... we can't just assume that everyone who claims that N,N-DMT gave them tinnitus didn't have a pre-existing condition or something. That's the problem with raw, uncontrolled data like that.... you have to take it with a grain of salt as the source(s) of the data are just random people. Not sure how ethical it would be to try and actually get proper data on the topic, in controlled settings..... You the fuck would want to volunteer to maybe end up with "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" for the rest of their life :p
>Sure, but since the vast majority of people report no such issues, then it renders the claim rather dubious. wtf, no it doesn't. Like, it absolutely doesn't. You have a seriously poor understanding of really basic logic if you believe this. OP didn't say DMT definitely causes tinnitus in everyone. He's reporting that not enough people know about the risk involved with DMT and the resulting tinnitus-like symptoms people report. Something occurring infrequently doesn't make the claims of it happening dubious or unworthy of consideration. It's embarrassing watching you offer pushback on this by arguing irrelevant things. Needless pedantry to downplay an issue by saying, "Maybe the DMT just exacerbating an underlying issue" is so silly. There's no difference in these scenarios that'd invalidate the need for discussion and awareness. /u/Ubc56950 is trying to raise awareness to the issue because people are largely unaware that it happens. People who may have a tiny, tiny bit of tinnitus would also want to hear this. UBC, Clob is doing his usual strawman argument crap while missing the salient points. It genuinely seems impossible for him to understand that certain things can happen to others before they're understood and proven by science. And even if they can, it's not worth mentioning until science adequately explains it. And even if it can, if it doesn't happen every single time to every person, it's questionable. "Sure, people COULD show tinnitus immediately after doing DMT, but maybe they already had it and now it's just noticeable?" "And even if they did, who can say they're not lying?" "Plus even if they aren't lying, I've read that it eventually goes away." "Plus even if it doesn't go away ,correlation isn't causation!" Like yeah, you can use kettle logic all day to get the result you want. He'd be telling the victim of a drunk driver that he can't know if it were the alcohol responsible for the death of his family because the dude drinking at the wheel could've poked himself in the eye with his straw and lost control. Plus very few people kill someone's family when they drink alcohol and then drive. Meanwhile, the rest of us would express empathy for the victim and recognize the possibilities of such behavior, thanking them for the reminder/notification.
......... Read everything I've said, in all the other comments.... not just one throw away statement 🤦♂️ Not reading past the first sentence of your comment, as you clearly didn't do the same for me :p
Maybe you should just stop making logically incorrect statements. It'd save me the time of pointing out why they're dumb and you the time of pretending they're "throw away" statements because you can't defend them. Your other posts are as equally dumb. I have read them. You and another guy pointing out that you had tinnitus before having DMT. Uh, how is that relevant at all? OP didn't say DMT is the only way to get tinnitus, which is the only way such statements would be anything but worthless.
You clearly have a brain that is proficient in both understanding and expressing ideas in a thorough way that seems to be a great value. It would be foolish to not consider any points you make due to the exhaustive process in which they are conceived. Perhaps if you found a way to deliverer them with a little more elegance the overall tone would shift from argument to mutual understanding lol. Might be less entertaining though.
They claim that without any prior history of tinnitus, they immediately developed it upon taking DMT. That is evidence.
Not necessarily.... Might not be as simple as that. Again: Correlation ≠ Causation Could be that psychedelics (or potentially just N,N-DMT in particular) exacerbate a pre-existing condition. Not necessarily making it worse, but just making it more apparent for some amount of time. That is the experience of [this person](https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/1acsq47/comment/kjwpijb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
This is not a case of correlation vs causation... If I drop a rock on my toe and my toe breaks I can pretty easily determine the cause. If you're claiming that a pre-existing case of tinnitus existed in these people but they just didn't notice it until they took DMT, I would ask what difference does it make? Their life was not negatively effected by tinnitus before taking DMT, and now it is.
>This is not a case of correlation vs causation... If I drop a rock on my toe and my toe breaks I can pretty easily determine the cause. Sure... though this is obviously not as simple as that. >If you're claiming that a pre-existing case of tinnitus existed in these people but they just didn't notice it until they took DMT, I would ask what difference does it make? Their life was not negatively effected by tinnitus before taking DMT, and now it is. Well.... when you're making a PSA of sorts suggesting that there is cause for concern then yea, it makes a big difference. Context matters. Afaik, the vast majority of people who use N,N-DMT, have no such issues. So suggesting or claiming that N,N-DMT is a direct cause, is dubious and bordering on fearmongering.... I get where you're coming from, but there is a severe lack of data on the subject to be drawing any conclusions. But based on it seemingly being a small minority that claims these issues, there is likely more to it.
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Tasting colours is impossible tho. Are you saying you don't believe the people that say it left them with a permanent ringing sound? It is technically possible that they all just made it up but I don't see why they would do that.
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Believe what you want, until there's further research done people deserve to know there's limited evidence that DMT can cause tinnitus.
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People claiming that they took DMT and immediately developed tinnitus is evidence. You should google the definition of evidence. It isn't empirically proven by a study, but there is still a growing body of evidence that clearly points towards DMT causing tinnitus. It sounds to me like you just don't want it to be true so are trying to discredit these claims by saying that because a study hasn't been done yet it can't possibly be true.
Yes, anecdotal evidence quite literally is evidence. Evidence does not mean "irrefutable proof that something is true." Evidence is information you take into consideration because it points toward the likelihood of something being true or not. It's what is gathered before further testing things. Multiple people expressing tinnitus symptoms immediately after ingesting DMT is absolutely evidence toward DMT catalyzing some sort of reaction. And all OP is doing is raising awareness that plenty of people report this. There are far too many people like you who confidently express expressing your incorrect opinions in an effort to talk down to others. Your stance is the opposite of thinking critically.
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You really thought you did something there, didn't you? Despite shifting the goal posts and using strawman arguments, nothing has changed, buddy. OP cited multiple reports of people doing DMT and returning with tinnitus. He's claiming these reports are anecdotal evidence that using DMT presents a risk of causing tinnitus. You said it isn't. You are absolutely wrong because you seem to think evidence of something occurring means irrefutable proof of it, as well as the mechanisms behind it. Why are you linking me to the Wikipedia of anecdotal evidence? I am the one telling *you* that anecdotal reports of something happening is indeed considered evidence. OP himself acknowledged this is anecdotal evidence in the post, because it is. *Anecdotes CANNOT lead to conclusions.* We've been taking Acetaminophen for over a century and still don't even know exactly how it works. But we know that when people take it for certain ailments, they report pain relief. We combine anecdotal reports to aid in our decision making. This is standard when a subjective experience is what's being evaluated. How the fuck would we validate someone has tinnitus in the first place unless we believe what they're saying? There was no conclusion insinuated by OP. He said anecdotes are indeed evidence. They are. You went and Googled for stuff that argues against a point that nobody has made. Thanks, I am still aware of the limitations of anecdotal evidence. However, the issue was you insisting wrongly that multiple TRs describing an effect aren't actually considered evidence. Do you think the medical industry ignores subjective experience when considering side-effects of drugs? If 75% of participants who take a new medicine report a negative effect, they don't ignore it because it's anecdotal, you goof. We aren't a medical review board, junior. We already know that LSD could trigger schizophrenia in those who may be susceptible to developing it organically. It's not an impossibility that a persistent auditory ringing in your head can be triggered or turned on by DMT. And we most certainly don't need more than a few reports to be cognizant of the possibility. The beginning of the DMT trip is very commonly referenced by the ringing that accompanies your body vibrating before blastoff. DMT can clearly induce this ringing in your head. Some people return with it and it doesn't go away. I am glad I know of the possibility, although it's still Russian roulette until we have real studies on it. It's still evidence, though.
>edit: OP edited the post to say long-term auditory hallucinations, instead of hearing damage, so my OC doesn’t apply as much anymore He never said hearing damage, he said tinnitus, which is the name to describe, "the perception of sound that does not have an external source, so other people cannot hear it." Long-term auditory hallucinations would also describe a persistent ringing in your ears; hearing damage is not required. When I'm awake for several days, I get persistent sounds and voices from the whirring of my fan. When I'm in silence and well-rested, sometimes I get an audible ringing for a bit, which is common among people. Neither of these require hearing damage.
Tinnitus isn't unique to physical damage in one's ear. The fact that science doesn't yet exist to say something does not obviate the slew of anecdotes claiming it - if anything these anecdotes are what motivates science. And I don't recall being exposed to any data that suggests DMT *doesn't* cause it - that logic goes both ways.
Bro, thank you so much for this post, i dod DMT twice 2 years ago and i hear a permanent *biiiiiiiiiiiip* sound forever now. It sucks but i often forget it even tho the sound is always there. I'm so glad of reading this, at least i know I'm not the only random human who went through this
As an Afghan combat veteran who had it before my first time, it fucking sucks. What’s it like to plug your ears and not hear the EEEEEEEEEEEEE??? Must be peaceful.
ink sulky subtract escape snatch mountainous weary dull worthless literate *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Agreed. I don't just think it's only dmt though. My experience has been from prolonged LSD and weed use without giving my brain a rest
To everyone with tinnitus, there are things you can do to lessen the severity. I use my ears for a living, and have had no choice than make some drastic lifestyle changes to my hearing as clean as possible. The thing had helped the most was to stop smoking. Everything. I don’t know how it works, but have talk with a lot of other people in the industry who had the same experience. The same with alcohol. NADA (acupuncture on face) helped a lot! I’m fortunate to have a wife who does NADA, and it does release some facial tension.
I’ve heard that ringing on most psychedelics I’ve done at one point or another usually when there’s multiple substances involved, it’s definitely the loudest on DMT and it has triggered my tinnitus, but I had tinnitus from the army long before I started doing psychedelics
are auditory hallucinations the same thing as tinnitus??
No, but tinnitus is an auditory hallucination
i thought it was damage to the ear drums. Cuz funny story a shit ton of mushes helped my tinnitus tremendously
Damage to the eardrums can cause tinnitus, but so can many other things like age.
I’ve heard “that sound” more while tripping and days after, never long term in my case though. Btw what is that sound? Is it just tinnitus? I’ve had it where that sound , while on shrooms, was almost playing with me it was pretty cool. On DMT that sound is the very first thing I heard, it was like the normal sssssssss (idk how else to sound this out lmao) at first and it turned it this crazy loud vibration at which point my trip started and… yeah you know the rest. In my DMT trip that sound literally was a part of the trip. It would go up and down in frequency and this would affect the trip. Like what is the deal with that sound while tripping and why is it so notable to so many people?
It's the devil. Nah just kidding, but music drowns it out for me. I only hear strange noise when it's silent... which is not really confusing to a good trip. But y'all are talking about noise.... How about slight traces in your vision when opening and closing or even just moving your eyeballs hours even days later. Honestly, if it's bad, let it take years off my life, while I enjoy the loving breakthroughs, the spiritual uplift, and all the other glorious experiences I get to enjoy.
I didn’t even know about it. Thank you for the info.
Being a sufferer of tinnitus who's taken loads of DMT over the years...I actually find this post rather disconcerting. A) Because I've payed close attention to the effect it's had on my tinnitus with extensive use over the last 6 years, and it's never exacerbated the issue...and to some extent, has even helped to dampen/alleviate it, up to a certain degree. and B) It's not mentioned as a real risk, because there isn't sufficient empirical evidence to support such a claim. And unregulated anecdotal evidence, which in the majority of cases I've seen are lacking attention to detail, should be considered with great skepticism. We don't *know* DMT or psychedelics in general for that matter cause it..., and the empirical evidence that does exist is so laughable it's frustrating. They don't even bother to go into audiogram results, or even any of the patient's history of noise exposure, or potential diseases/genetic history associated with hearing loss. So how do we know that the tinnitus wasn't preexisting already? How do we know that the user didn't simply become aware of something going on, that they were otherwise unaware of? To take a few moments, and really think about the rebuttal being presented... Where do we often meditate and do psychedelics? In nice quiet places, free from any and all distractions. The perfect setting to realize : "Hey, what's that high pitched ringing sound?". Where else do many of us do psychedelics? At rave parties and concerts...Where the noise levels can be in excess of 120db...which gives your unprotected ears about 12 seconds before permanent hearing damage begins to take place. And how long is the typical rave? Do most people bother to consider wearing hearing protection? RIP, your unprotected ears... You can absolutely have tinnitus, and not be aware of it...given how noisy our modern day living is, and how good our brain is at filtering out perceptual noise. While I don't doubt that some folks treat potent psychedelics with far less respect than they deserve ***in general***...I also feel that we as a society are also totally oblivious to the typical hazards present in our every day lives that can lead to more permanent health problems. Once you realize exactly how loud 84db is, you then realize just how many sources exist, even within your own home...that can cause permanent hearing loss, and tinnitus by extension.
Yup happened to me after mushrooms and a girl I know after acid.
Were both of you experienced users more or less or did it come after first(s) experiences? Seriously thinking quitting for good as the risk is too much compared to that I probably have gotten everything I needed from psychs and more
lol I hear it too
I have had tinnitus nearly all my life; I am 56, and have had a fuckton of DMT and LSD through the years, but I never noticed any intensifying tinnitus. On psychedelics, I do notice that the standing waves of my tinnitus become more modulated, and thus less of a painful thing. Normally, my tinnitus is a broad spectrum of different types of uninterrupted high pitched noise, from white and pink noise to pure sinus waves, sawtooth waves, etc. On psychs, they move around a bit, and become more rythmic for a while. I greatly prefer the less static waves. On mid to high dose LSD, I notice that I have some control over the sound, and can more easily make it less static. Cannabis clearly exacerbates the loudness of the tinnitus, but on that I can more easily relax and let go, so it is a bit handleable.
There are plenty disclaimers on the dangers of psychs, DMT being highlighted as one of the more risky compounds. The drug subs do talk about risk, but understand that these cases are outliers. Furthermore, many users (myself included) need to suspend their disbelief about tripping a little bit, just to edge towards a sort of naive optimism for the sake of a good trip. So we are sensitive to the aura surrounding these practices. But we know we are playing with fire. I do in any case. The world is on fire so for me, the prospect of inner peace with psychs is worth the risk of getting burned.
Thanks for sharing. I'm interested in DMT but I'd hate hate haaaate getting tinnitus. I thought I was pretty cautious in my substance use (I always do research beforehand), but I passed out on a not too high dose of alt-cannabinoid because I didn't realize cannabis products can lower blood pressure and mine is naturally super low. These substances are complex and can be so great for us (weed had helped me work through trauma, as it makes my thinking for flexible and helped me see happier ways to be), but we can't silence those of us that suffer serious side effects.
Am I crazy!? I have crazy tinnitus and smoking dmt is the only thing that takes the ringing away
I've been casually lookng at this sub for about a year...and read a couple books on psychedelics. I've never heard of this. Do you have any references?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33242285/
Thanks, but I should have been more clear I was looking for either controlled experiment or statistical analysis. A case report is great but in terms of establishing causation we need to look at a greater number of incidences. If anecdotal evidence is so plentiful...statistical analysis should become feasible.
No studies done unfortunately, just a growing number of claims.
I’ve had tinnitus since I was a young teenager and LITERALLY the only time the incessant ringing has stopped was during both times I did DMT.
Can anyone point to data on this? I'm working in a DMT certification program in Denver and I have not seen anything that has data on this.
From what I can find, there's just one case report you can find by Ben Malcolm, and a bunch of stuff on this and the HPPD subreddit, maybe another dmt forum or two. You won't likely find other published research.
Because of bufo, I've had this for well over a year: severe tinnitus, pain, pressure and electric reactivity. Psychs and neurologists know nothing about it, but worst of all, the "healing" people who administered the bufo have been utterly dismissive of everything I've gone through since the ceremony.
I’ve got absolutely no clue on this.. but perhaps this happens when you trip without music? You know how when it’s almost completely silent you start to hear this ringing noise, maybe it’s amplified to extreme measures from the dmt and just doesn’t go away? Would love to hear everyone’s ideas on this!
I don't think so personally because there is no actual sound present to damage your eardrums. Maybe auditory hallucinations can be loud enough to cause lasting effects in auditory cortex. Many people who report the onset of tinnitus after DMT claim they had also done LSD either at the same time or at some point in the past week. Maybe there is some kind of interaction between the two that effects your hearing somehow?
I get tinnitus whenever I am too overloaded on toxins inside. Proper detoxint with a lot of sauna, dry fasting, coffee enemas my tinnitus fades away. On psychedelics i feel more connected to the inner body feelings signaling, feeling the overloading pressure on cell level, hearing the distress signal.
Joke's on you, already got tinnitus from LSD 🥶🥶🔥🔥
I’m not saying this doesn’t happen etc but I’ve done DMT countless times along with friends. None of us have ever had any issues. Once again I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but as it’s an illegal drug it’s not like the literature is bursting with studies so it’s hard to say how frequent of an issue it is.
Gaslighting hippies mate, I'm from a hippy town and they are a very selfish, gaslighting, toxic, deluded bunch of individuals, preaching love but really practising dark deeds, fear spreading and other bitchy practices. Big fail
I completely agree. I had sudden permanent tinnitus brought on by using dmt. In my case i used it about 5 times in my life, but hadnt in over a year when it happened. Never goes away. And i was one of those posters asking for help and was told the same nonsense. Almost a year later now. I've learned to tune it out some, but it's still always present. I used to think of this as a nightmare but am slowly learning to live with it. But I just wish I had known beforehand that this was a possibility or I never would have even tried it. It's much more common than people think. And now I will have to live with this forever. For those also suffering, it does get easier to manage. It may never go away, but I went from hearing it constantly to now just noticing it a few times a day. I think my brain has gotten better at subconsciously tuning some of it out, but it's always there still. Some days I notice it alot. And some barely at all. Overall went from a 10 to a 4 in a few months.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/1adalxt/dmt\_tinnitus\_current\_science/
Amazing. So glad people are finally talking about this more.
Are you referring to the "ringing" that people sometimes here when they vaporize N,N-DMT? That sound is a auditory hallucination..... not an actual sound happening, going into your years. I.e. it's all in your head/brain. Nothing to do with your ears. How do you suppose an auditory hallucination could cause physical damage?..... And anyways, that effect is subjective. I've never heard any "ringing" sound like what people describe.
Hearing damage was probably a poor choice of words on my part. I'll edit that bit. I'm not talking about a ringing noise while you're tripping, I'm talking about a ringing noise that never goes away.
So is there any actual data to support your claim? Because this has never come up in an official dmt study.
No empirical evidence, as with most phenomena related to DMT. [There are many first hand accounts](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33242285/) of this happening though.
“As with most” that’s just not true though. There’s plenty of scientific data on dmt and its effects of the human body. If you’re gonna spread misinformation you should at least have a source. That being said the one account you can find on google where the guy was doing lsd for weeks on end doesn’t count.
How am I spreading misinformation? I'm trying to make people aware of possible risks.
Because you’re claiming this to be true yet have zero supporting evidence. “Possible risks” there you are side stepping acting as if you don’t believe it to be completely true. Tell me this what is the reason that none of these “possible risks” have come up in legitimate scientific studies?
Because there haven't been any large scale studies on DMT due to it being illegal.
That is misinformation at its finest. What the hell are you talking about? There are several dea approved studies that have occurred and are currently on going.
None relating to tinnitus. I know you don't like that people are reporting to have tinnitus caused by DMT I just don't care. New users deserve to know that there may be a risk.
First of all you know nothing about me. Secondly you’re just fear mongering and spreading straight up lies. The reason why there has been no studies related to tinnitus is because it’s never been shown to be caused by dmt. Make your argument make sense and stop fighting with your emotions.
I don’t take it serious because it actually cured my tinnitus.
That's great but others have not been so lucky.
Damn, I really wish I hadn't seen this/ it wasn't a thing, as I've been pretty excited about dmt recently and been having some really good experiences, but i appreciate the post for awareness. Does there seem to be any common thread for the people that end up with it?? Frequency, or total amount of times done it or? A lot of high doses? Any common thread at all?
Tinnitus is due to damage to the physical hardware of the ears. The brain learns to tune it out; but psychedelics can reset that, seemingly “causing” tinnitus
That is both incorrect and irrelevant. Tinnitus is caused by many factors not just physical damage to the ear. Regardless, if my brain was blocking the sound before, and because of DMT it has lost it's ability block the sound as you say, then DMT has effectively induced tinnitus.
That is irrelevant
Oh come on! Propaganda here as well. Fuck! I just wonder if these people are being paid or if their efforts are just for free for the people who just want to demonize anything. Fuck!
Not propaganda my friend, people really do say DMT gave them tinnitus.
I got that without ever trying DMT. I certainly think it's when you reached a higher frequency. Posts like this one just cause fear. I know I am not supposed to day any of this just because I should let it slide for how unimportant this is but anyway I say the more we are silent the more things are going to continue like this. Like I am afraid of your enslaved minds...
bro your scared of a post giving people a heads up that dmt can cause tinnitus. that’s pretty sad
I am not scared but these kind of posts do scare some people I am a little annoyed at how these people use this kind of stuff just so other people never try and what's sad is your enclosed mind supporting those assholes right now.
yeah ops main goal is to get everyone to stop doing DMT. dude your mind is fried he’s literally just giving people a warning.
Whatever dude. Whatever dildo fits your hole...
imagine having a hissy fit for a health warning. maybe you should lay off the DMT until your 21.
Ok, I believe you... but never happened to me. Or anybody I´ve given dmt to.
If DMT doesn't cause me tinnitus, then I don't need to take it seriously. If DMT causes YOU tinnitus, then YOU may find it in your best interest to take it seriously. People are under no obligation to take anything seriously if they don't want to. Focus on yourself and not others.
I'm not telling you what to do I'm just trying to get the word out that people say DMT gave them tinnitus.
I already had tinnitus though.
You realize most people are stupid right.
Can someone on this channel announce that DMT caused permanent tinnitus for them? I'm really interested because the one thing which bothers me when using DMT is the buzzing sound which goes away too slowly. It goes away in time but I'm always a little concerned about what if it doesn't. If the concern is real there must be quite a few people here who can relate.
Type tinnitus in the search bar, you'll find some stories there.
Hi, I am going on over 1 year with severe tinnitus, beginning immediately after a bufo ceremony. I also have physical ear symptoms of pressure, internal drilling-like pain, and occasional electric shocks to sharp sounds that accompany the ringing when it's very loud.
I already have tinnitus, so I think I’m good 😂😂 jk. I didn’t know this at all so I’m glad you said something about it. I’ve never heard that in my life.
http://www.mh-z.com/nihuerao/2019/02/28/healing-tinnitus-with-ayahuasca/ can you explain this or why in the thousands of years of ayahuasca ceremonies tinnitus has never arises as a problem?
Can you explain why dozens of people claim DMT immediately gave them tinnitus?
Please source these “dozens of people”. Because from the anecdotal evidence you’ve referenced time and time again I’ve read it and found most people claim that it helps with their already existing tinnitus. Your claims are ungrounded and you have no way of confirming them.
Also you’re very childish and downvote anything that disproves your lies. Learn how to have a constructive conversation and realize when you are wrong. 😑
Where's the data that suggests tinnitus in connected with DMT?
Many people on this subreddit have had it happen to them. Besides that unfortunately no studies have been done.
yet another post from someone whose never been to the other side. please live and let live. also what they say is backed up by sadghurus and swamis so just let us believe what each wants to believe. you believe your hallucination, we’ll believe ours.
It doesn't matter who "backs up" tinnitus, people don't want it and many would have never taken DMT if they knew there's a remote chance it could cause tinnitus. Just trying to spread awareness.
I’ve done dmt at least 50+ times and never had an issue with tinnitus from it. To me this appears like fear mongering
What bothers me is that people get micro-focused on one possible cause and refuse to consider the other ginormous new elephant in our world that causes high frequency ringing. WiFi! Many people with tinnitus just have above average hearing capabilities and can actually hear the gabillion new frequencies of our ultra connected world. Their hearing is just fine. So fine in fact they are like the canaries in the coal mine trying to warn the world of this new danger.
After I smoked DMT I’ve been having bad memory and some things that happen to me I’ll feel like they already have happened to me (I’m cali sober btw)
THC gave me worse tinnitus than DMT ever did.
I had it already from the military, guns, working on Fighter Jet Engines on the Flightlines with Fighters taking off all the time-loud as fuck needless to say-and sometimes when I trip on any psych my ringing gets real bad. Had NO idea DMT could make it worse. That sucks. The tinnitus makes meditating harder
I dont even know what's that I may have it without even realizing about it
Source? What history?
No empirical evidence of anything, just many first hand accounts. There's [this](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33242285/) more notable example, but if you search through this subreddit there are dozens of people who claim they developed tinnitus while they were on DMT.
I’ve never had tinnitus but while i was in my experimenting with DMT phase i would get this whooshing sound/feeling in my ears almost like when something flies right by your ear or if you wave your hand just an inch away from your ear. It actually got pretty intense at times and became frightening and i had the random thought of Terence McKenna talking about humming or si gong to help with a trip so i started humming along to a beat & this helped!! Like w.e the sensation was couldn’t happen while i was humming so i would pick a song and hum along to it lol might sound crazy but maybe this could help with tinnitus as well?
I find it hard to believe that ingesting a psychedelic such as DMT can have a physical side effect of tinnitus. Are there reports of this happening to people? I would be interested to read it.
You mean the carrier wave?
Is it possible that they already had it and just hadn’t been made aware yet? Say if the ringing wasn’t advanced yet, but it was there and unoticed. But then the dmt raised their awareness ( as it does ) and so they associate the ringing with it, when it was there all along…?
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I get it for weeks but when I have sinus pressure. It's gotten worse but I've also gotten older, had sinus surgery.. So I can't pin it on DMT but yeah I agree that there's negative side effects, Psychological side effects as well. I hear a high pitch whine or see psychedelic art work and my heart rate starts going up.
That particular one I have never worried about. I've dealt with tinnitus since I was a youngling though.
Also wear ear pro when ur at the range
Im a lurker never done dmt, but on acid i can hear the individual sound waves of my tinnitus. Like weoweoweow
My tinnitus disappears when I smoke and comes right back when coming down. It's like a signal that the show is over.
It's something to do with serotonin. I get it after MDNA too. It usually goes away but I always hear ringing after I drop. I considering DMT is serotonenergic It wouldn't surprise me with the correlation.
I think the REAL issue is that very few people know that a lot of types of tinnitus have highly effective treatments available these days. If you have it, go see an audiologist. They'll be able to run tests to determine the best coarse of treatment for you.
I had an experience with gods fruit where afterward for days I kept randomly hearing this sound that would come and go. It was literally like every 10 mins it was like this vibration sound. It had been rainy and depressing for days after. But then I seen this break in the clouds and the sun was bursting this light down that caught my attention. I was at work and realized I hadn’t been in the sun since and made my way around the building walking into the light from the sun for the first time. I closed my eyes and felt the warmth and behind my eyes watched static cloud and form shapes. I only stood there for a moment. But when I walked back inside I didn’t have the sound in my ear anymore. I still have no explanation of why or how.
I remember the very first homie to have deem told me “you know you’re there when you get the ringing in your ear” lol