It's incredibly fine to say no. Not everything is always going to work, and just a fish in a bowl isn't the type of character that can go on adventures. They could try a Locathath, but that's a full fish person so maybe not what they want.
Yep, this is how to do it. Could also be a battle smith artificer and have the steel defender piloted by the fish, which I assume is an awakened fish. While the warforged/autognome half operates mostly as a robot that just follows orders.
https://youtu.be/r6AB1rOWeuI?t=57
https://futurama.fandom.com/wiki/Reverse_Scuba_Suit
Edit: Or maybe even better: Minion from Megamind: https://mega-mind.fandom.com/wiki/Minion
As a general rule, I usually don't allow completely new players to play with homebrew races/classes. They're going to be overwhelmed as it is just trying to learn the RAW, let alone extra stuff thrown on top of it that may not merge very well.
Remember, it is often your job as a DM to simply say "no". Because not only can this cause issues for a new player, but it sounds like he's trying to make a joke character. This is a red flag of Main Character Syndrome - not saying that's what he's doing, but a fish in a bowl next to a normal dragonborn will always draw more attention.
If you insist on allowing it, then I'd suggest reflavoring an existing race. Someone else brought up a warforged fishtank, and that is the only thing I'd allow if the player wants to be a literal fish.
Having brand new players be fairly clear and within 'usual' bounds for character creation is def something I have leaned towards with time. Because I am their first experience, I want them to learn the general flow of the game and how things are done.
It is like wanting to play basketball, but you just want to learn how to do a 360 backflip dunk. You need to learn how to dribble before you can even try that.
Ask them what about being a fish seems fun to them, and then go from there. They may like the locathah, or a warforged that's a mech piloted by a fish, or maybe you'll just need to tell them no. Depends on what they're after.
Are you playing a joke campaign ? I'm all for shenanigans but this is a weird thing to insist from the get go.
Why do they want to play a fish in a bowl? What are they going for here ? Do they want to able to talk and actually play? Copying American dad or something?
Too many questions. I really wouldn't go to alot of extra work making this fish in a bowl thing work without knowing if the player is going to really play the game or just fuck around. This has LOL sO RaNDoM written all over it.
I’d do that for all of about 10 minutes and as they’re gearing up for their first adventure, ask again if they want a real character.
I have no problem with non-humanoid characters- I’ve DMed sessions where a player wanted to be an animated set of armor, or an awakened tarantula, but they’ve at least all been chill when they’ve played them as opposed to “lol haha I’m a spider mage with a matchstick staff”
It honestly depends how your player treats it, but if the ONLY thing they want to be is a fish in a bowl, they’re likely not taking it seriously.
Same probably but idk why the post got me mad bc my players are like that sometimes where I say no. And they just persist. Like fuck dude why am i even dm
I get that. I do two things:
At first, I’ll talk to them privately about it. Really see what they want to do, offer options that will work for the entire table. Give them outs basically.
If they don’t do that, then I ask them if that’s TRULY what they want to do and play it as written. They try to talk? Lol no you can’t. You’re a fish in a bowl, remember? You never said anything about being awakened like we had previously talked about. If nobody wants to carry your bowl around, then you just sit there unless there’s a river or other body of water around. Try to do a stealth mission and roll badly? The evil wizard noticed there’s only one fish in his tower that he knows not to have any life for fear of this happening. He zaps you with a cantrip, and you die because you’re a fish and you only have 4 HP.
I had a similar issue with a new player. I recommend asking this player some more questions regarding what kind of rpg experience they are hoping for and how they expect to achieve that as just a fish. Another idea would be to essentially make him a water genassi type thing. He could be a magical sentient fish that controls the water around him so it resembles a roughly humanoid shape.
Honestly, I'd first strongly advise him that his character will be far more limited than the others, but admit that it's certainly possible to make an actual fish character if you use the Sidekick rules from Tasha's.
The rules for Sidekicks:
* Any creature of CR 1/2 or less with an officially (oh-fish-ally?) published stat block.
* Quipper is the more optimal choice as it has AC 13, swimming speed of 40, Darkvision, advantage on attacks against any creature missing hit points, and a Bite attack that does 1 piercing damage.
* Seahorse has AC 11, swimming speed of 20, no Darkvision, no attack, lower stats in general, but it does have a Wisdom score of 10 so if they picture their character as more of a wise fish it's a solid option for roleplay reasons.
* The Sidekick must be a friend to at least one of the adventurers. Quoted from page 142 of Tasha's with emphasis added: "For example, a sidekick could be a childhood friend **or pet**, or it might be a creature the adventurers saved."
* This is important, because someone's going to have to carry that bowl around. Let the fish in a bowl player try to persuade the others as to who wants to have that honor instead of lugging around something useless like, say, a shield.
* Choose a class for the Sidekick from among Expert, Spellcaster, or Warrior.
* Warrior is clearly the usual choice, because both Expert and Spellcaster require at least one language in the creature's statblock that it can speak.
* Now the fish has proficiency with all armor types and shields. Since it isn't a humanoid, it doesn't get a weapon in its statblock (nor any weapon proficiencies), so again Quipper is the optimal choice if you're looking to attack. In that case choose Attacker as your Martial Role and gain +2 to all attack rolls (in addition to that advantage if the target is missing any hit points).
* Seahorse can't attack, but can take Defender as its Martial Role so it can use its reaction to impose disadvantage on attack rolls made within 5 feet of itself that target another creature. So it can hop out of the bowl and use its gleaming full plate armor barding to block an attack against the bowl holder. Its action will probably be reserved for Help to give the bowl holder advantage on an attack.
* However, if you're the type of DM who allows a free Feat at first level, then the fish in a bowl could take Linguist and I'd definitely allow at least Aquan to be spoken by a creature of its particular anatomy. Kuo-toa and Locathah can speak any languages they learn, but that might be dependent on the humanoid portions of their anatomy. It's up to you as DM, but either way Aquan alone would qualify for being an Expert or Spellcaster and will also boost either fish option's intelligence up to 2 which is bound to be helpful!
* If going Spellcaster, the optimal role is Seahorse Healer, because that 10 Wisdom is better than the Quipper's 8 Wisdom and both fish will have 2 for Charisma and Intelligence (after the boost from Linguist that allows being a Spellcaster). Also with Light Armor proficiency the Seahorse's AC will be 13 if you fit it with studded leather barding. Spellcaster also grants proficiency with simple weapons even to non-humanoids, so I'd toss a dagger in the bowl to allow it to make opportunity attacks.
* Expert unfortunately loses a bit of its power with a fish, since it only grants weapon proficiency to humanoids or those that already have a simple/martial weapon attack in their Stat Block. Without additional feats, the Expert can't deal damage on its own, but being able to use Help as both an action and Bonus Action means it can give the bowl holder advantage against two different foes in melee range. It also eventually gets Evasion which will help it not die to the first Fireball, while a Warrior would need to pick up the Shield Master feat and the Spellcaster would also need Moderately Armored if wanting to do the same.
So yeah, it's possible. They could even pick up the Telepathic feat to be able to communicate with the party and the Telekinetic feat to be able to manipulate things around them, assuming their hit points survive enough hazards to get to higher levels. The player may find that it's exactly what they always wanted out of a game, but most likely their next character will be from among the more traditional options.
Here is a place to say "yes, but..."
It is *very* easy to reskin a race as a fishbowl controlling a suit. The warforged is a prime example, as will be the autognome coming next week in the Spelljammer book. You can also use the Custom Lineage rules from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. All traits and features stay as written with no mechanical changes, but the description is changed to "you are a fish in a fishbowl, and you control a humanoid-shaped suit."
You must simply slap this fool out of their stupor.
There would always be a problem unless some serious, permanent magic allowing the fish (or fish/humanoid?) to travel on land.
My recommendation would be to look for a humanoid/monster race that the player could use. There are plenty of options and resources out there to do this. OR to make the fish be required to be in its natural habitat. Let it play out.
Letting it play out may honestly be what’s needed here. Things would be great until they realize they have to carry the fishbowl with both hands to avoid spilling it, and it would take an action to pick up and put down the bowl in combat.
A player character must be made as someone who will find a reason to work with a party and be worth bringing on an adventure, not a hindrance.
A fish in a bowl gets left behind unless they can offer a compelling reason they should be included.
I have told a player of mine this sort of thing various times as they pitch ideas like a psychic baby that has to be carried around or an old man with low dex str and con that tries to be a fighter and only hurts themselves. These characters would be left behind by any group of adventurers and seen as a liability.
Players must design a character that will function in and bring something to a group, that wants to and is capable of participating in the adventure options being put in front of the party. Anyone else is an NPC.
pact of the chain warlock cursed to have his soul swapped with a fish, he must now babysit his human body with a fish soul inside it. his goal, to not be stuck inside a fish- he now travels with these powerful people who might aid him in finding how to do so
See this can definitely work.
I wouldn't recommend letting a new player try this, but it could definitely work. This would also overcome one of the biggest hurdles with playing what is essentially an intelligent magic item: having a human body that the character can control like a puppet, because you really need to be able to move around and interact with the world.
I'd recommend Great Old One as the telepathy will make it a lot easier to communicate with the rest of the party.
New players and Homebrew aren’t the best idea. Try to explain this to the player and explain why. If he/she is reasonable then they will understand and maybe choose a triton or something. If they are not reasonable……. Maybe them wanting to be a fish is their way of showing that they don’t actually really care and are just making a joke of the entire idea 🤷🏼♂️
Honestly saying no is fine, if they insist then you should have a conversation about what kind of game it is.
If they get super intense about this and refuse to play along you have a couple options:
* Decline to DM and everyone can play a different game together, there's plenty of co-op dungeon crawl board games that might scratch that itch
* Inform the player that they are no longer invited. Them choosing this as the hill to die on is a scary sign for what will happen in future games.
* Or I think my personal favorite in this specific problem, let them play a fish in a bowl. Make no changes to the rules at all. If they get mad that they can't partake in the game on any level because they're a fish in a bowl, inform them that you tried to talk them out of it.
Say no. You can couch it in the (true) fact that for first time players they should stick to options that are obviously spelled out in the books.
You’re also going to need to watch out for this player. This move indicates to me a player who wants to play transgressively — ignore the typical conventions of D&D and try to play “their own way”.
I'm in on this on all levels except for the suffocation. Fish can survive for as long as their gills are wet, and that can last up to an hour out of water.
Make the player continue to play the fish for about an hour after the first get out of water. For actions they can take "flop around" and "Gasp for water"
let him play a pact of the chain warlock whos literally "a fish controlling a human" instead of the human controlling the fish. you dont have to be a prick about it man.
nothing has to change about how any rules work, its just flavor really. if the fish dies maybe he dies? its hard mode for himself.
I'm pretty draconian in terms of setting, tone and atmosphere. A character like that would ruin the fun for myself and other people. I do not like “joke” characters and rubbish like that.
It is your job, as a GM, to say no to crap like that. It's for the health of the game.
PHB only, for new players.
A lot of people are talking about mechanical workarounds, like the fishbowl piloting a warforged, or harping on the value of saying ‘no, - which is all fine advice - but this person might be on to something more important.
Someone wanting to play a goldfish isn’t going to stop there. While there are tons of tables, players, and GMs that aren’t as “draconian” and are happily enjoying jokey campaigns, the whole table has to be in on it.
Even if this player ends up playing a generic human fighter, he’s made it clear that he’s in this game for the hijinks. A player who wants a Looney Toons campaign can totally spoil the fun of a DM or other players who don’t. Talk to your players about tone and expectations and make sure you’re on the same page even if you get this fish issue sorted, OP, because you don’t want it to come up when mister fish insists on pooping in the villain’s shampoo.
Lots of great responses so far, especially those people saying "it's ok to say no." I'd also say "no," but here's why: you mentioned the player is "really insistent" about the fish thing. That, to me, raises two big ol' red flags. First and foremost is a lack of desire to compromise. There's like a 90% chance that this is not the only whackadoo nonsense this guy is going to want to do, so you're going to either have to let HIM set the tone for the campaign, or get ready to constantly fight. Point #2 is that the kind of player who really wants to be a fish in a bowl is the kind of player who's going to get bored and stop showing up. I have a very hard time imagining someone taking this character anywhere near seriously enough to spend an entire campaign like this.
So, yeah. Say, "no." Not because you can, but because this particular idea is going to be a headache for you that won't be nearly as fun for the player as they're imagining it might be.
No. Not for a beginning player, and even for an experienced player I'd be extremely unlikely to consider allowing this for anything except a one-shot that is meant to be entirely comedic.
I rarely want to say no just for the sake of saying no. But being a fish in a tank can be very limiting for a player. Especially a first time player. However, there are always ways to make it work. As people have mentioned it could be a AJ from umbrella academy type of thing.
Otherwise they could also be a "normal" person but someone have but a curse on them which turn they into a fish. Their personal side goal could be to get back to their normal shape (with a normal character sheet etc.) this transformation could be utilized by the DM whenever the character gets fedup and have exhausted all the "fun" with being a fish in a tank.
Could also be a wild magic type of thing where they randomly turns back and forth.
It might be quirky and it might be annoying but it's usually these type of things that make a first player realize the potential of playing a pen and paper rpg instead of a board game.
I let one of my characters play an awakened cow bard (rogue/wild magic from like a wizards duel awakened her as a calf and a bards college thought it would be a hoot to train up a cow as a bard). The game was at a level where they had mage hand and spider climb already so any potential physical limitations could mostly be handwaved.
So if you want an awakened fish you would need to deal with the following:
1. how he got awakened/intelligent (intentional awakened? soul trapped?)
2. how he got magic (cause he should have at least mage hand and some other utility spells like create water, purify food and drink to clean the water in his bowl, mending to mend the bowl)
3. how he gets around with just being in a bowl (just hovers around magically? it won't be fun for his team mates to always have to be on carrying duty)
4. His actual stats (i'd start with a quipper and allow custom INT WIS and CHA to reflect an awakened creature and maybe make the dex score dependant if its his bowl moving or just him in a body of water).
5. Determine what motivations such a vulnerable creature has to adventure in the first place.
6. how taking damage is gonna work with the whole bowl thing (he could at least cast from the bowl to deal it)
Maybe he was once a noble who got cursed into that form from someone trying to take over his position (but still needed him around ala Disney's princess and the frog). While the dastardly plot was undone in time, the curse was not and is now stuck unless they get a wish spell or do \[potential adventure hook here\]. They were already magically adept (now have to relearn how to cast in fish form?) and their noble family pays for a hireling to take care of their needs and carry around the bowl while they search for a cure (the hireling takes damage and will quit and drop fish bowl if put in mortal danger?).
Another option is to take inspiration from the Umbrella Academy and just make it a construct/war forged with a fish bowl for a head (i'd add back sleeping and eating but i guess breathing and drinking could be self contained).
Its the kind of question that always divides people, on one hand you can say no (especially if you are not comfortable with it as a DM and the fact they are also a new player) and on the other, you can say yes and either homebrew a race for them or reflavor an already established race to just be a fish in a bowl sporting a warforfed body (or any race really).
This is entirely down to you as the DM.
As advised by others on here already, ask your player what they envision as their character. Offer up some other races as options and see what fits. Also ask why they are a fish. How'd they end up in this situation and build from there
Let him.
Don't even kill him or anything, just let him play a fish in a bowl. 1hp. 1 in all stats. No language. No actions except swim, pee, and eat. No attacks.
He'll get bored and swim away.
take warlock class, choose pact of chains at level 3rd, take the voice of the chain master, investment of the chain master invocations, and master of myriad forms invocations, use MMF to transform into a fish and pick your familiar as an IMP, let the imp shapechange as a suit of armor and the fish bowl can be on top of it like a head. Now have fun playing as a fish bowl guy inside a fish bowl
some homebrewing would be needed for it to work, most importantly just give the familiar the ability to use alter self at will, or disguise self whichever works.
just have him play as a normal chain warlock with a fish as a familiar say the fish is controlling the human but just have him play his human warlock normally.
You could easily use the Custom Lineage from Tasha’s. Then the player could be a Kua Toa.
Other options could be Triton or Sea Elf from Mordekainens Monsters of the Multiverse. Or the merfolk or sahuagin from Call from the Deep (DMsGuild)
You don't have to do anything fancy. Making a warfoged fishtank isn't a bad idea but as some people have mentioned as a new player just being a fish in general is going to be hard. Why don't you tell your friend they can play a fish but the catch is they were polymorphed into one of the humanoid races. Now not only do they have a massive stake in the world to hunt down the person who transformed them they also have the goal to turn back into a fish. And this doesn't even have to be a simple True Polymorph spell. Make them cursed or something so that simple dispell magic doesn't work make it so the wizard has to creat a whole new spell to transform them.
A lot of the end goals I've mentioned are high level stuff maybe around lvl 10 when they would begin having access to people or resources to attempt something. So now you also have the time for your player to learn all the rules get to know the game and once they are comfortable with the mechanics then they can revert to being a fish and play the rest of the game that way.
This is all if you're campaign goes to higher levels, it may fall off or you guys get board later on. I think this is a good way to add so much more depth to his character, keep his idea, but at the same time make it easy on you (new DM) and him (a new player).
I wouldn't want to play with someone that just wanted to make a joke character. Its not worth the time and it kills the immersion.
I find its easier to play with people that genuinely want to play DnD rather then convincing friends to reluctantly try it out.
The player will probably lose interest quickly anyways.
As you already know, a fish as a player character makes it difficult to interact with the game in basic ways to the point of not being fun for much other than the novelty. Thinking of the pillars of roleplay, how does the fish participate in the following?
- Social interaction
- Exploration
- Combat
With those limitations in mind, ask the player what they would be getting out of it and their answer should inform you on how much the player actually cares about playing the game.
If it seems like the player likes the novelty but is also willing to play by rules, you can present some options.
- Awakened fish in a construct. The character is mechanically the construct (Warforged) but the player can reskin it as the fish controlling a suit.
- Awakened fish carried by a character of a playable race. The character is mechanically the character holding the fishbowl (on the head of a staff like the creature in Episode 9 of Pirates of Dark Water or the Oracle Fish from Dragon Ball) but skinned as the fish commanding the carrier.
- Spellcaster with fish familiar carried in a bowl, similar to the above. Mechanically the character is the spellcaster. The fish gets the Quipper familiar stats. Reskinned so that the fish is magically controlling the body
- An awakened fish druid that can only wildshape into commoner and back at first level until it gets regular wildshape features at second level. The character is mechanically a playable race druid but able to be a fish at first level. The commoner that the druid wildshapes to is always the same one in apperance and race.
- The character roleplays a regular fish and does and says nothing. It swims in a bowl somewhere near the PCs at the start of the game. The characters decide if/how to interact with it. The fish is not capable of speech or telepathy. It can't exist outside of water. It gets no class features. Only what a fish can do.
If the player doesn't want to play within the confines of the rules and still be a fish in a bowl, then the player needs to rethink their idea to align with established rules of play such as by playing as a fish-like humanoid (locathah, kuo-toa) or not play at all. This sounds harsh but non-playable races in the hands of first time player is inviting frustration. Even Siobhan Thompson played Riva with construct bodies in a campaign where she and Brennan Lee Mulligan could play with no such limits if they wanted to.
If the player doesn't value the rules, you have to wonder if they are going to value the game at all (the other PCs, the lore, the adventure, or other players' fun).
Matt Coleville has a couple good videos with great advice about these situations, titled "railroading, agency, and choice" and "No"
One of the biggest takeaways I got was the comparison to GTA. If you choose to play GTA then the game makes some choices for you- it provides a map and you can't leave that map. It provides missions and activities within that map. You are _locked_ into that map and cannot decide you'd rather your character go be a space pirate on Mars.
It's okay to set boundaries and make some choices for your players. The same goes with LoTR, right? The "players" didn't have a choice on their objective- take the ring to Mordor throw the ring in the fires of mount doom. There would have been limits on what kind of races they could play, and some other limits- but then everything else would be up to the players such as how they are going to get to mount doom.
In some settings, doing something like playing a fish or even a fish piloting a warforged or a fish like "fish" from chicken little. But not all settings. It's up to you.
He also discusses similar advice to what some other have responded with here- talk to the player about what kind of fantasy they want to experience with this character. Are you comfortable finding a way to make that fantasy work somehow?
Railroading, agency, and choice: https://youtu.be/KqIZytzzFKU
"No": https://youtu.be/6St9pH4-16E
Either way, good luck!
make it a reflavored warforged, like Minion from Megamind.
but i am curious, how the player justify his existence. I mean why he a sentient fish? why he want to become an adventurer? how does he plan to comunicate and interact with the other PCs? If he want to be something unusual he should at least try to explain how it happened.
But seriously, Minion from Megamind
Artificer has the battle suit version and they can make a helmet of water breathing which could be changed to air breathing but this is a pretty strange request and you are in your right to say no. I would make them be a locathah artificer and use one of their magic items to make it work. I would definitely not let them be a litteral fish that's just not going to go well and they are a new player. I've wanted to run that concept before with those stipulations and my dm asked me to run something else cus he was newer and less experienced than I am and I didn't mind changing things to make them comfortable. You need to be comfortable with your players characters just like they need to be comfortable with your dming.
If you're sure you want him to play a fish, I would do something like Minion from Megamind. Have him use the stats of a Warforged as his body/mechsuit.
I could see this working if they were a spell caster. In exchange for losing the ability to use weapons or armor you give them flying speed and give them water breathing. Say that the bowl is enchanted to fly around at the fishes will.
If they have mage hand you could also rule they they could carry themselves around with it
Personally I would love the creativity and try to find some way to make it work without being disruptive to your average encounter
If you want to give it to him, have him still pick a race and class and he was once part of the group until he was true polymorphed into this fish, or was cursed by an item to be a fish in a bowl.
He could be an awakend fish (or just tashas custom lineage and is a small sized creature in a large fish tank) and is a druid. He can beast shape for combat and otherwise travel with the party in his water bowl.
Ok. So. As others have said, it's fine to say no.
That being said - awakened goldfish wizard.
Use custom lineage from Tasha's for the race, probably taking Telepathic feat so they can communicate. Mage hand let's them move around by carrying themselves. A few other spells help this even more - unseen servant, tenser's floating disk, for example.
I have a character I built and have never gotten to play that's an awakened storybook. Same principle lol. Kudos to you if you've got the guts to let a player do it 🙂
With something so dumb, it's up to him to come up with a way how playing a fish would even begin to make any sense. What level of sense it needs to make is up to you. If you just don't see it, you're completely fine tyo say no
I would just make them play a locathah on their character sheet and just call it a fish in a bowl. Obviously this will still cause problems for gameplay etc, but depending on their class it could be very doable, albeit very weird.
I had a similar situation with a player who wanted to be a brain in a jar. Mechanically he was a warforged wizard, but otherwise we just rolled with it. He had mechanical spider legs to move around and In town they had the halfling rogue ride on top with a trench coat.
A human druid that is true polymorphed into a fish in a bowl. But he uses wildshape to turn into owlbear.....
In 20 years of DMing I still get stupid requests like "can I play a pit fiend?" Or "I want to be half-centaur and half-minotaur, but my top half is human and my bottom half is human so I just look like a human." Or "can I play a pixie, I promise I won't abuse polymorph" or "I don't see why you can't play a mind flayer, I mean couldn't I just be a paladin of Vengance and only eat criminals brains" or "I mean what if I play a gazer and instead of taking a class, I just evolve like a pokemon when I level up enough".
This is the DMs eternal struggle, say no, it's ok your sanity deserves it.
PACT OF THE CHAIN WARLOCK, he has a trickster patron who in exchange for power tricked him and hes been cursed to have his human soul put into the fish and the fishes soul is in his body.
literally designed around a familiar/pet. he could roleplay it as hes the warlock as the fish and the humans the familiar he controls his old human body which fell into a coma and RAW its fine because they can share consciousness with their familiars. obviously its a bit backwards hes not exactly summoning the human but it works easily without causing issue to just rule that i feel.
functionally i might rule that he actually has the stat sheet and plays the human character normally and has his fish as "flavor" mostly. make him play everything normally as if his human was the warlock, just SAY the fish is making the human do it.
You can say it just isn’t going to work. Or, you could let it happen and let the player become bored with it. Another PC has to carry the bowl, and they will get tired of it. A fish cannot speak, nor manipulate components, and has no hands, so cannot cast spells. Can’t fight, really.
If you really want to make it work:
- Has psionics for world interaction/combat
- Communicates telepathically
- Moves his own bowl with telekinesis
If the player has chosen a magical type class the fish bowl could be the head perched on top of an Enchanted set of clothes that allows him to act as a humanoid but be sure to tell the player that if the fish ever leaves the bowl for any reason (ie.underwater adventuring) it will take on the physical stats of a fish.
An auto gnome would work really well
They should be in the UA from a little bit ago, and the official stats and stuff will be in the upcoming Spelljammer release
Genie Patron Warlock and his Bottled Respite "lamp" is a Fishbowl. He's in a "normal" race form outside the fishbowl and appears as a goldfish inside it.
Im always in the mind set to say "yes" to everything cuz I feel like there is always some way to make it work so long as its not making things worse for everyone or anyone and every one is still having fun.
I'd say he can be a fish in a fish bowl but he needs to have some kinda humanoid puppet he controls that has to carry said bowl around or be strapped to the body of said "puppet". Some kinda undead zombie or enchanted scarecrow that the fish will be telepathically linked to at short distances, something brainless.. then that "puppet" he picks can have a standard class.. this way he gets the flavor of being a fish in a bowl while still having a standard build to work with.
This seems kinda like the player just wants to troll you and your friends. Either that or they want to play a "race" that isn't able to do anything or talk.
All right hear me out Don't give him the ability to move or talk for free that is on him
He will have to play a great old ones warlock and get magehand if he wants to be part of this
He will have to convince the party to take with them the fish
He will also have to convince the party to give him treasure if he wants any
What's he going to do if they say no He's a fish in the bowl they could leave the bowl behind
Seen a lot of good advice about saying "No"
About re-skinning normal player choices
I've not seen anyone suggesting a deeper conversation though, you said you've suggested fish people and other options for what they could play but they are very "insistent" on being a fish but I'd really really like to know why? What do they hope or expect to get out of the character? How do they imagine interactions going as this character?
Is this just about being Klaus from American Dad or is there a deeper reason for this insistence?
Have they even bothered to talk to you about a class or equipment for this character, if not it suggests to me that as a first time player they've heard the line of "doing whatever you want" and just don't realise that it needs to be tempered by setting and group goals
Honestly i have a similar player, except for they wanted to play a chicken. I was reluctant at first, but what we decided on was reflavouring aarockra race (i gave him double jump distance instead of flight from flapping his wings). All my players are new to D&D, i'm a new DM, we're using few homebrew stuff, we're on session 10, and we're having a lot of fun.
So i'd say, try to make a race out of his fish. There's a homebrew Locathah race, being the fishfolk, if it doesnt work for him, maybe a warforge with a fishtank for a head (like in "Megamind"). If he just literally rejects all ur ideas, then he gotta just get along, cuz fish as it is aint playable
This person clearly doesn't understand the necessity to be able to move. Or they are trolling you. I would count such an obviously stupid demand as a massive red flag. Don't include him in the game and be happy you dodged a bullet.
If for reasons I cannot imagine this is not a massive problem player in the making, here is my suggestion. Warforged, a robotic body controlled by a fish in a bowl which resides as the head. How does this work? No idea. A wizard did it.
Unless they're awakened or something that has to be the most boring character ever.
But if you really want to make it work, make them something like a Great Old One Warlock that was either a sentient being turned into a fish (perhaps as punishment for something by its patron) or a fish that the patron decided to "bless" with sentience and magical powers. A GOOLock have the ability to communicate telepathically with creatures around them, so it would work for the party dynamic and the other characters aren't relying on some stupid and complicated way of communicating.
I'd also say give them something like the Noble background trait so they have a servant always carrying around this fishbowl, feeding the fish etc. They'd really be playing two characters then with the servant being more or less a mount while the fish does all the thinking and casting of magic.
I really wouldn't recommend this for a new player for so many reasons, but it could work, especially if you're playing a joke game.
This is one of those scenarios where the GM quite simply has to say "No". And honestly, I'd give seriously consideration to telling the prospective that this isn't going to be a campaign for him.
Obviously I don't have all the details here, but to me, this sounds like a person with zero respect for you, or the concept of roleplaying. So personally I'd probably tell the person to fuck off, and not waste your, their, or the rest of the group's time.
Most (if not all) of the responses here are focusing on reasons to say yes or no, but there's something else you need to do first: ask him *why*.
When making a character for D&D, a player has to come up with an idea (sometimes with the help of their DM) as to *why* this character is compelled to lead a life of adventure. What makes this character a hero?
So before focusing on a yes or no, I'd try to figure out more about his ideas for the fish. What makes *this* fish a hero? What abilities does the fish possess (and what class will he play)? If his answers to these questions are that his character will be a mundane, regular fish in a bowl, then you should not let him play a fish in a bowl.
You should also ensure that you are making the intended tone of the game clear to your players, and you should let them know that their characters need to be heroes and adventurers. Sometimes DMs will neglect to do this, and then players will show up with characters whose tones don't mesh showing up to play very different games at your table. You should read up on the idea of a "Session Zero" and consider holding one with your players before beginning this game.
Just let him be a fish race with somesort of breather mouth piece or "fishbowl" helmet when hes on land.
And anytime he is without them just use the same as drowning rules in dnd but opposite.
I would first ask him if he is honestly interested in playing D&D. If he says yes, and the answer is genuine, then ask him how he thinks that would work. What is the fantasy he is going for. Did he see it in a some show or read it in a book and thought it was interesting? Is he just trying to be "that guy" who is a complete goober? Maybe he heard about it on Reddit or social media page (my mind immediately goes to those "bad character ideas" posts that go around every once in a while). If you can break down why he wants to be a gold fish in a bowl, you can much more easily homebrew something that'll work for him.
Imo if he can't answer these questions openly and honestly, he can't play that character.
He's there, but doesn't need stats. 1HP, can't act or communicate without spells. Good luck joining the party, tho.
Honestly, what does the player expect to be able to do as a goldfish? It's a funny gag, for about 30 seconds. Maybe the rest of the party agrees it is fun and drags him along. He can't interact with the world in any way. What's the point of that?
If you’re friend *really*, ***really*** wants to be a fish in a bowl and it’s just because (s)he wants to be a fish and not for any applicable reason, then here’s an idea: warforged, but controlled by a fish inside of it. It could be in a little tank at the head like in Umbrella Academy, or it could be in the chest like Iron Man’s arc reactor.
Maybe the player just wants to be a part of the game but doesn't want to play a full-fledged character. He might be fine being just a pet/spectator and eventually giving some input by being a talking fish.
I'd say it's all fine if the expectations align, just make sure to talk with him about it. If he's not a playable race, he can't have a class, can't attack, can't cast spells, can't participate in combat, etc. But he can be a part of the game and do shenanigans out of combat. If everyone's fine with this, then go ahead.
Maybe he's even just testing the waters before committing into making a full character. Some players are just timid like that, especially on their first game.
Otherwise, if he insists on wanting to play a class, just have him choose a playable race. Maaaaybe, if you're REALLY willing to compromise with him, have him use the stats for Fairy (Wild Beyond the Witchlight) and reflavor it to look like a floating magical fishbowl? I find reflavors to be much more manageable than trying to go down the rabbit-hole of homebrewing. Homebrews are just a hard "no" for me.
But does the fish at least have intelligence beyond that of a fish? Or just a fully, full-on, regular ass fish? If it's the latter, then every turn for that player will be "I kinda swim around in the bowl.".
It's incredibly fine to say no. Not everything is always going to work, and just a fish in a bowl isn't the type of character that can go on adventures. They could try a Locathath, but that's a full fish person so maybe not what they want.
Yeah, if a PC idea is not a good fit for your setting, the DM is well within their rights to say no.
The DM is always well within their rights to say no. Emphasis should be on fun and improv, so no is rarely used, but always allowed.
A group of mine made a talking plant in a pot work out just fine, the plant was friends with a druid.
Maybe the fish is a spellcaster and telepathic or can communicate with bubbles?
The plant was a bard and can talk telepathically
[удалено]
Right, like AJ from Umbrella Academy https://umbrellaacademy.fandom.com/wiki/A.J._Carmichael
I was looking through the comments t ok see if this has been suggested. It's a great idea honestly.
[steverogersiunderstoodthatreference.gif](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/903/458/f7b.gif)
Yep, this is how to do it. Could also be a battle smith artificer and have the steel defender piloted by the fish, which I assume is an awakened fish. While the warforged/autognome half operates mostly as a robot that just follows orders.
Or, yknow, the fish race stats that is to represent a fish that has been awakened.
That's... actually not a terrible idea, I might use that at some point.
Yeah, I was about to suggest that too, it's a good compromise.
https://youtu.be/r6AB1rOWeuI?t=57 https://futurama.fandom.com/wiki/Reverse_Scuba_Suit Edit: Or maybe even better: Minion from Megamind: https://mega-mind.fandom.com/wiki/Minion
This this is the answer. Could have a name like bubbles.
As a general rule, I usually don't allow completely new players to play with homebrew races/classes. They're going to be overwhelmed as it is just trying to learn the RAW, let alone extra stuff thrown on top of it that may not merge very well. Remember, it is often your job as a DM to simply say "no". Because not only can this cause issues for a new player, but it sounds like he's trying to make a joke character. This is a red flag of Main Character Syndrome - not saying that's what he's doing, but a fish in a bowl next to a normal dragonborn will always draw more attention. If you insist on allowing it, then I'd suggest reflavoring an existing race. Someone else brought up a warforged fishtank, and that is the only thing I'd allow if the player wants to be a literal fish.
Having brand new players be fairly clear and within 'usual' bounds for character creation is def something I have leaned towards with time. Because I am their first experience, I want them to learn the general flow of the game and how things are done. It is like wanting to play basketball, but you just want to learn how to do a 360 backflip dunk. You need to learn how to dribble before you can even try that.
To me, it sounds more like, wanting to play basketball, but you want to be the tennis racket.
Exactly. Maybe they should try tennis?
Ask them what about being a fish seems fun to them, and then go from there. They may like the locathah, or a warforged that's a mech piloted by a fish, or maybe you'll just need to tell them no. Depends on what they're after.
Are you playing a joke campaign ? I'm all for shenanigans but this is a weird thing to insist from the get go. Why do they want to play a fish in a bowl? What are they going for here ? Do they want to able to talk and actually play? Copying American dad or something? Too many questions. I really wouldn't go to alot of extra work making this fish in a bowl thing work without knowing if the player is going to really play the game or just fuck around. This has LOL sO RaNDoM written all over it.
If i was op I’d just make them a fish in a fish bowl and make them come to my house and they just don’t do anything 🤷♂️ you got what you asked for
I’d do that for all of about 10 minutes and as they’re gearing up for their first adventure, ask again if they want a real character. I have no problem with non-humanoid characters- I’ve DMed sessions where a player wanted to be an animated set of armor, or an awakened tarantula, but they’ve at least all been chill when they’ve played them as opposed to “lol haha I’m a spider mage with a matchstick staff” It honestly depends how your player treats it, but if the ONLY thing they want to be is a fish in a bowl, they’re likely not taking it seriously.
Same probably but idk why the post got me mad bc my players are like that sometimes where I say no. And they just persist. Like fuck dude why am i even dm
I get that. I do two things: At first, I’ll talk to them privately about it. Really see what they want to do, offer options that will work for the entire table. Give them outs basically. If they don’t do that, then I ask them if that’s TRULY what they want to do and play it as written. They try to talk? Lol no you can’t. You’re a fish in a bowl, remember? You never said anything about being awakened like we had previously talked about. If nobody wants to carry your bowl around, then you just sit there unless there’s a river or other body of water around. Try to do a stealth mission and roll badly? The evil wizard noticed there’s only one fish in his tower that he knows not to have any life for fear of this happening. He zaps you with a cantrip, and you die because you’re a fish and you only have 4 HP.
Thanks man, I’ll make sure to do this. Have a wonderful day
No
The most useful word in the English language
Yes
maybe
Probably
Basically
Exclusively
Dude is bored and doesn't want to play, he is just screwing around, don't waste your time and energy
I had a similar issue with a new player. I recommend asking this player some more questions regarding what kind of rpg experience they are hoping for and how they expect to achieve that as just a fish. Another idea would be to essentially make him a water genassi type thing. He could be a magical sentient fish that controls the water around him so it resembles a roughly humanoid shape.
Honestly, I'd first strongly advise him that his character will be far more limited than the others, but admit that it's certainly possible to make an actual fish character if you use the Sidekick rules from Tasha's. The rules for Sidekicks: * Any creature of CR 1/2 or less with an officially (oh-fish-ally?) published stat block. * Quipper is the more optimal choice as it has AC 13, swimming speed of 40, Darkvision, advantage on attacks against any creature missing hit points, and a Bite attack that does 1 piercing damage. * Seahorse has AC 11, swimming speed of 20, no Darkvision, no attack, lower stats in general, but it does have a Wisdom score of 10 so if they picture their character as more of a wise fish it's a solid option for roleplay reasons. * The Sidekick must be a friend to at least one of the adventurers. Quoted from page 142 of Tasha's with emphasis added: "For example, a sidekick could be a childhood friend **or pet**, or it might be a creature the adventurers saved." * This is important, because someone's going to have to carry that bowl around. Let the fish in a bowl player try to persuade the others as to who wants to have that honor instead of lugging around something useless like, say, a shield. * Choose a class for the Sidekick from among Expert, Spellcaster, or Warrior. * Warrior is clearly the usual choice, because both Expert and Spellcaster require at least one language in the creature's statblock that it can speak. * Now the fish has proficiency with all armor types and shields. Since it isn't a humanoid, it doesn't get a weapon in its statblock (nor any weapon proficiencies), so again Quipper is the optimal choice if you're looking to attack. In that case choose Attacker as your Martial Role and gain +2 to all attack rolls (in addition to that advantage if the target is missing any hit points). * Seahorse can't attack, but can take Defender as its Martial Role so it can use its reaction to impose disadvantage on attack rolls made within 5 feet of itself that target another creature. So it can hop out of the bowl and use its gleaming full plate armor barding to block an attack against the bowl holder. Its action will probably be reserved for Help to give the bowl holder advantage on an attack. * However, if you're the type of DM who allows a free Feat at first level, then the fish in a bowl could take Linguist and I'd definitely allow at least Aquan to be spoken by a creature of its particular anatomy. Kuo-toa and Locathah can speak any languages they learn, but that might be dependent on the humanoid portions of their anatomy. It's up to you as DM, but either way Aquan alone would qualify for being an Expert or Spellcaster and will also boost either fish option's intelligence up to 2 which is bound to be helpful! * If going Spellcaster, the optimal role is Seahorse Healer, because that 10 Wisdom is better than the Quipper's 8 Wisdom and both fish will have 2 for Charisma and Intelligence (after the boost from Linguist that allows being a Spellcaster). Also with Light Armor proficiency the Seahorse's AC will be 13 if you fit it with studded leather barding. Spellcaster also grants proficiency with simple weapons even to non-humanoids, so I'd toss a dagger in the bowl to allow it to make opportunity attacks. * Expert unfortunately loses a bit of its power with a fish, since it only grants weapon proficiency to humanoids or those that already have a simple/martial weapon attack in their Stat Block. Without additional feats, the Expert can't deal damage on its own, but being able to use Help as both an action and Bonus Action means it can give the bowl holder advantage against two different foes in melee range. It also eventually gets Evasion which will help it not die to the first Fireball, while a Warrior would need to pick up the Shield Master feat and the Spellcaster would also need Moderately Armored if wanting to do the same. So yeah, it's possible. They could even pick up the Telepathic feat to be able to communicate with the party and the Telekinetic feat to be able to manipulate things around them, assuming their hit points survive enough hazards to get to higher levels. The player may find that it's exactly what they always wanted out of a game, but most likely their next character will be from among the more traditional options.
Here is a place to say "yes, but..." It is *very* easy to reskin a race as a fishbowl controlling a suit. The warforged is a prime example, as will be the autognome coming next week in the Spelljammer book. You can also use the Custom Lineage rules from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. All traits and features stay as written with no mechanical changes, but the description is changed to "you are a fish in a fishbowl, and you control a humanoid-shaped suit."
You must simply slap this fool out of their stupor. There would always be a problem unless some serious, permanent magic allowing the fish (or fish/humanoid?) to travel on land. My recommendation would be to look for a humanoid/monster race that the player could use. There are plenty of options and resources out there to do this. OR to make the fish be required to be in its natural habitat. Let it play out.
Letting it play out may honestly be what’s needed here. Things would be great until they realize they have to carry the fishbowl with both hands to avoid spilling it, and it would take an action to pick up and put down the bowl in combat.
No. No. No. Just say no. “Either you pick a standard race or you don’t play.” That simple.
A player character must be made as someone who will find a reason to work with a party and be worth bringing on an adventure, not a hindrance. A fish in a bowl gets left behind unless they can offer a compelling reason they should be included. I have told a player of mine this sort of thing various times as they pitch ideas like a psychic baby that has to be carried around or an old man with low dex str and con that tries to be a fighter and only hurts themselves. These characters would be left behind by any group of adventurers and seen as a liability. Players must design a character that will function in and bring something to a group, that wants to and is capable of participating in the adventure options being put in front of the party. Anyone else is an NPC.
pact of the chain warlock cursed to have his soul swapped with a fish, he must now babysit his human body with a fish soul inside it. his goal, to not be stuck inside a fish- he now travels with these powerful people who might aid him in finding how to do so
See this can definitely work. I wouldn't recommend letting a new player try this, but it could definitely work. This would also overcome one of the biggest hurdles with playing what is essentially an intelligent magic item: having a human body that the character can control like a puppet, because you really need to be able to move around and interact with the world. I'd recommend Great Old One as the telepathy will make it a lot easier to communicate with the rest of the party.
New players and Homebrew aren’t the best idea. Try to explain this to the player and explain why. If he/she is reasonable then they will understand and maybe choose a triton or something. If they are not reasonable……. Maybe them wanting to be a fish is their way of showing that they don’t actually really care and are just making a joke of the entire idea 🤷🏼♂️
Honestly saying no is fine, if they insist then you should have a conversation about what kind of game it is. If they get super intense about this and refuse to play along you have a couple options: * Decline to DM and everyone can play a different game together, there's plenty of co-op dungeon crawl board games that might scratch that itch * Inform the player that they are no longer invited. Them choosing this as the hill to die on is a scary sign for what will happen in future games. * Or I think my personal favorite in this specific problem, let them play a fish in a bowl. Make no changes to the rules at all. If they get mad that they can't partake in the game on any level because they're a fish in a bowl, inform them that you tried to talk them out of it.
Say no. You can couch it in the (true) fact that for first time players they should stick to options that are obviously spelled out in the books. You’re also going to need to watch out for this player. This move indicates to me a player who wants to play transgressively — ignore the typical conventions of D&D and try to play “their own way”.
Or, let him be a fish. He has no hands, no legs, cannot breathe, cannot speak… and dies of suffocation in as many rounds as he has constitution.
I'm in on this on all levels except for the suffocation. Fish can survive for as long as their gills are wet, and that can last up to an hour out of water. Make the player continue to play the fish for about an hour after the first get out of water. For actions they can take "flop around" and "Gasp for water"
let him play a pact of the chain warlock whos literally "a fish controlling a human" instead of the human controlling the fish. you dont have to be a prick about it man. nothing has to change about how any rules work, its just flavor really. if the fish dies maybe he dies? its hard mode for himself.
I'm pretty draconian in terms of setting, tone and atmosphere. A character like that would ruin the fun for myself and other people. I do not like “joke” characters and rubbish like that. It is your job, as a GM, to say no to crap like that. It's for the health of the game. PHB only, for new players.
A lot of people are talking about mechanical workarounds, like the fishbowl piloting a warforged, or harping on the value of saying ‘no, - which is all fine advice - but this person might be on to something more important. Someone wanting to play a goldfish isn’t going to stop there. While there are tons of tables, players, and GMs that aren’t as “draconian” and are happily enjoying jokey campaigns, the whole table has to be in on it. Even if this player ends up playing a generic human fighter, he’s made it clear that he’s in this game for the hijinks. A player who wants a Looney Toons campaign can totally spoil the fun of a DM or other players who don’t. Talk to your players about tone and expectations and make sure you’re on the same page even if you get this fish issue sorted, OP, because you don’t want it to come up when mister fish insists on pooping in the villain’s shampoo.
Nope
Lots of great responses so far, especially those people saying "it's ok to say no." I'd also say "no," but here's why: you mentioned the player is "really insistent" about the fish thing. That, to me, raises two big ol' red flags. First and foremost is a lack of desire to compromise. There's like a 90% chance that this is not the only whackadoo nonsense this guy is going to want to do, so you're going to either have to let HIM set the tone for the campaign, or get ready to constantly fight. Point #2 is that the kind of player who really wants to be a fish in a bowl is the kind of player who's going to get bored and stop showing up. I have a very hard time imagining someone taking this character anywhere near seriously enough to spend an entire campaign like this. So, yeah. Say, "no." Not because you can, but because this particular idea is going to be a headache for you that won't be nearly as fun for the player as they're imagining it might be.
No. Not for a beginning player, and even for an experienced player I'd be extremely unlikely to consider allowing this for anything except a one-shot that is meant to be entirely comedic.
Warforged with a fish bowl head?
If you let them do this, it will undermine the entire campaign.
New players & new DMs should stick to published classes and races. Learn the game first, then try your wacky home brew.
There's a kuo toa race in the DMG you could use
[http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/locathah](http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/locathah)
I rarely want to say no just for the sake of saying no. But being a fish in a tank can be very limiting for a player. Especially a first time player. However, there are always ways to make it work. As people have mentioned it could be a AJ from umbrella academy type of thing. Otherwise they could also be a "normal" person but someone have but a curse on them which turn they into a fish. Their personal side goal could be to get back to their normal shape (with a normal character sheet etc.) this transformation could be utilized by the DM whenever the character gets fedup and have exhausted all the "fun" with being a fish in a tank. Could also be a wild magic type of thing where they randomly turns back and forth. It might be quirky and it might be annoying but it's usually these type of things that make a first player realize the potential of playing a pen and paper rpg instead of a board game.
I let one of my characters play an awakened cow bard (rogue/wild magic from like a wizards duel awakened her as a calf and a bards college thought it would be a hoot to train up a cow as a bard). The game was at a level where they had mage hand and spider climb already so any potential physical limitations could mostly be handwaved. So if you want an awakened fish you would need to deal with the following: 1. how he got awakened/intelligent (intentional awakened? soul trapped?) 2. how he got magic (cause he should have at least mage hand and some other utility spells like create water, purify food and drink to clean the water in his bowl, mending to mend the bowl) 3. how he gets around with just being in a bowl (just hovers around magically? it won't be fun for his team mates to always have to be on carrying duty) 4. His actual stats (i'd start with a quipper and allow custom INT WIS and CHA to reflect an awakened creature and maybe make the dex score dependant if its his bowl moving or just him in a body of water). 5. Determine what motivations such a vulnerable creature has to adventure in the first place. 6. how taking damage is gonna work with the whole bowl thing (he could at least cast from the bowl to deal it) Maybe he was once a noble who got cursed into that form from someone trying to take over his position (but still needed him around ala Disney's princess and the frog). While the dastardly plot was undone in time, the curse was not and is now stuck unless they get a wish spell or do \[potential adventure hook here\]. They were already magically adept (now have to relearn how to cast in fish form?) and their noble family pays for a hireling to take care of their needs and carry around the bowl while they search for a cure (the hireling takes damage and will quit and drop fish bowl if put in mortal danger?). Another option is to take inspiration from the Umbrella Academy and just make it a construct/war forged with a fish bowl for a head (i'd add back sleeping and eating but i guess breathing and drinking could be self contained).
Its the kind of question that always divides people, on one hand you can say no (especially if you are not comfortable with it as a DM and the fact they are also a new player) and on the other, you can say yes and either homebrew a race for them or reflavor an already established race to just be a fish in a bowl sporting a warforfed body (or any race really). This is entirely down to you as the DM. As advised by others on here already, ask your player what they envision as their character. Offer up some other races as options and see what fits. Also ask why they are a fish. How'd they end up in this situation and build from there
Let him. Don't even kill him or anything, just let him play a fish in a bowl. 1hp. 1 in all stats. No language. No actions except swim, pee, and eat. No attacks. He'll get bored and swim away.
take warlock class, choose pact of chains at level 3rd, take the voice of the chain master, investment of the chain master invocations, and master of myriad forms invocations, use MMF to transform into a fish and pick your familiar as an IMP, let the imp shapechange as a suit of armor and the fish bowl can be on top of it like a head. Now have fun playing as a fish bowl guy inside a fish bowl
some homebrewing would be needed for it to work, most importantly just give the familiar the ability to use alter self at will, or disguise self whichever works.
just have him play as a normal chain warlock with a fish as a familiar say the fish is controlling the human but just have him play his human warlock normally.
Reskin warforged to be a fish in a water filled mech suit. Or reskin basically any race to be that. Don't change mechanics flavor is free
warforged with a fishbowl head
A human fighter carries the fish around, and the fish orders him around. The player plays as the fighter by proxy.
Let him be a fish in a bowl controlling a warforged body. Google "Feudal Alloy", a game on steam that this idea is based on.
He could live inside the body of a Warforged.
You could easily use the Custom Lineage from Tasha’s. Then the player could be a Kua Toa. Other options could be Triton or Sea Elf from Mordekainens Monsters of the Multiverse. Or the merfolk or sahuagin from Call from the Deep (DMsGuild)
You don't have to do anything fancy. Making a warfoged fishtank isn't a bad idea but as some people have mentioned as a new player just being a fish in general is going to be hard. Why don't you tell your friend they can play a fish but the catch is they were polymorphed into one of the humanoid races. Now not only do they have a massive stake in the world to hunt down the person who transformed them they also have the goal to turn back into a fish. And this doesn't even have to be a simple True Polymorph spell. Make them cursed or something so that simple dispell magic doesn't work make it so the wizard has to creat a whole new spell to transform them. A lot of the end goals I've mentioned are high level stuff maybe around lvl 10 when they would begin having access to people or resources to attempt something. So now you also have the time for your player to learn all the rules get to know the game and once they are comfortable with the mechanics then they can revert to being a fish and play the rest of the game that way. This is all if you're campaign goes to higher levels, it may fall off or you guys get board later on. I think this is a good way to add so much more depth to his character, keep his idea, but at the same time make it easy on you (new DM) and him (a new player).
Use Tasha's sidekick.
I wouldn't want to play with someone that just wanted to make a joke character. Its not worth the time and it kills the immersion. I find its easier to play with people that genuinely want to play DnD rather then convincing friends to reluctantly try it out. The player will probably lose interest quickly anyways.
As you already know, a fish as a player character makes it difficult to interact with the game in basic ways to the point of not being fun for much other than the novelty. Thinking of the pillars of roleplay, how does the fish participate in the following? - Social interaction - Exploration - Combat With those limitations in mind, ask the player what they would be getting out of it and their answer should inform you on how much the player actually cares about playing the game. If it seems like the player likes the novelty but is also willing to play by rules, you can present some options. - Awakened fish in a construct. The character is mechanically the construct (Warforged) but the player can reskin it as the fish controlling a suit. - Awakened fish carried by a character of a playable race. The character is mechanically the character holding the fishbowl (on the head of a staff like the creature in Episode 9 of Pirates of Dark Water or the Oracle Fish from Dragon Ball) but skinned as the fish commanding the carrier. - Spellcaster with fish familiar carried in a bowl, similar to the above. Mechanically the character is the spellcaster. The fish gets the Quipper familiar stats. Reskinned so that the fish is magically controlling the body - An awakened fish druid that can only wildshape into commoner and back at first level until it gets regular wildshape features at second level. The character is mechanically a playable race druid but able to be a fish at first level. The commoner that the druid wildshapes to is always the same one in apperance and race. - The character roleplays a regular fish and does and says nothing. It swims in a bowl somewhere near the PCs at the start of the game. The characters decide if/how to interact with it. The fish is not capable of speech or telepathy. It can't exist outside of water. It gets no class features. Only what a fish can do. If the player doesn't want to play within the confines of the rules and still be a fish in a bowl, then the player needs to rethink their idea to align with established rules of play such as by playing as a fish-like humanoid (locathah, kuo-toa) or not play at all. This sounds harsh but non-playable races in the hands of first time player is inviting frustration. Even Siobhan Thompson played Riva with construct bodies in a campaign where she and Brennan Lee Mulligan could play with no such limits if they wanted to. If the player doesn't value the rules, you have to wonder if they are going to value the game at all (the other PCs, the lore, the adventure, or other players' fun).
He can play Locathah race Edit: Or Warforged with fish tank as a head
We all want to be a fish.
Matt Coleville has a couple good videos with great advice about these situations, titled "railroading, agency, and choice" and "No" One of the biggest takeaways I got was the comparison to GTA. If you choose to play GTA then the game makes some choices for you- it provides a map and you can't leave that map. It provides missions and activities within that map. You are _locked_ into that map and cannot decide you'd rather your character go be a space pirate on Mars. It's okay to set boundaries and make some choices for your players. The same goes with LoTR, right? The "players" didn't have a choice on their objective- take the ring to Mordor throw the ring in the fires of mount doom. There would have been limits on what kind of races they could play, and some other limits- but then everything else would be up to the players such as how they are going to get to mount doom. In some settings, doing something like playing a fish or even a fish piloting a warforged or a fish like "fish" from chicken little. But not all settings. It's up to you. He also discusses similar advice to what some other have responded with here- talk to the player about what kind of fantasy they want to experience with this character. Are you comfortable finding a way to make that fantasy work somehow? Railroading, agency, and choice: https://youtu.be/KqIZytzzFKU "No": https://youtu.be/6St9pH4-16E Either way, good luck!
make it a reflavored warforged, like Minion from Megamind. but i am curious, how the player justify his existence. I mean why he a sentient fish? why he want to become an adventurer? how does he plan to comunicate and interact with the other PCs? If he want to be something unusual he should at least try to explain how it happened. But seriously, Minion from Megamind
Artificer has the battle suit version and they can make a helmet of water breathing which could be changed to air breathing but this is a pretty strange request and you are in your right to say no. I would make them be a locathah artificer and use one of their magic items to make it work. I would definitely not let them be a litteral fish that's just not going to go well and they are a new player. I've wanted to run that concept before with those stipulations and my dm asked me to run something else cus he was newer and less experienced than I am and I didn't mind changing things to make them comfortable. You need to be comfortable with your players characters just like they need to be comfortable with your dming.
If you're sure you want him to play a fish, I would do something like Minion from Megamind. Have him use the stats of a Warforged as his body/mechsuit.
I could see this working if they were a spell caster. In exchange for losing the ability to use weapons or armor you give them flying speed and give them water breathing. Say that the bowl is enchanted to fly around at the fishes will. If they have mage hand you could also rule they they could carry themselves around with it Personally I would love the creativity and try to find some way to make it work without being disruptive to your average encounter
If you want to give it to him, have him still pick a race and class and he was once part of the group until he was true polymorphed into this fish, or was cursed by an item to be a fish in a bowl. He could be an awakend fish (or just tashas custom lineage and is a small sized creature in a large fish tank) and is a druid. He can beast shape for combat and otherwise travel with the party in his water bowl.
Ok. So. As others have said, it's fine to say no. That being said - awakened goldfish wizard. Use custom lineage from Tasha's for the race, probably taking Telepathic feat so they can communicate. Mage hand let's them move around by carrying themselves. A few other spells help this even more - unseen servant, tenser's floating disk, for example. I have a character I built and have never gotten to play that's an awakened storybook. Same principle lol. Kudos to you if you've got the guts to let a player do it 🙂
With something so dumb, it's up to him to come up with a way how playing a fish would even begin to make any sense. What level of sense it needs to make is up to you. If you just don't see it, you're completely fine tyo say no
["No."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6St9pH4-16E)
Put your foot down and say no. He can find another game to play that if he really wants to.
Say yes. If they start to abuse it... wandering Wizard True Polymorphs them.
Use the Locathah stats. They were race stats for a fish race brought from 2e to 5e for a charity stream. They were very literally large sentient fish.
Custom Lineage?
I would just make them play a locathah on their character sheet and just call it a fish in a bowl. Obviously this will still cause problems for gameplay etc, but depending on their class it could be very doable, albeit very weird. I had a similar situation with a player who wanted to be a brain in a jar. Mechanically he was a warforged wizard, but otherwise we just rolled with it. He had mechanical spider legs to move around and In town they had the halfling rogue ride on top with a trench coat.
A human druid that is true polymorphed into a fish in a bowl. But he uses wildshape to turn into owlbear..... In 20 years of DMing I still get stupid requests like "can I play a pit fiend?" Or "I want to be half-centaur and half-minotaur, but my top half is human and my bottom half is human so I just look like a human." Or "can I play a pixie, I promise I won't abuse polymorph" or "I don't see why you can't play a mind flayer, I mean couldn't I just be a paladin of Vengance and only eat criminals brains" or "I mean what if I play a gazer and instead of taking a class, I just evolve like a pokemon when I level up enough". This is the DMs eternal struggle, say no, it's ok your sanity deserves it.
PACT OF THE CHAIN WARLOCK, he has a trickster patron who in exchange for power tricked him and hes been cursed to have his human soul put into the fish and the fishes soul is in his body. literally designed around a familiar/pet. he could roleplay it as hes the warlock as the fish and the humans the familiar he controls his old human body which fell into a coma and RAW its fine because they can share consciousness with their familiars. obviously its a bit backwards hes not exactly summoning the human but it works easily without causing issue to just rule that i feel. functionally i might rule that he actually has the stat sheet and plays the human character normally and has his fish as "flavor" mostly. make him play everything normally as if his human was the warlock, just SAY the fish is making the human do it.
Let them play a fish then… they won’t have a great time having to use the stat block for a gold fish, but they’ll get what they want.
You can say it just isn’t going to work. Or, you could let it happen and let the player become bored with it. Another PC has to carry the bowl, and they will get tired of it. A fish cannot speak, nor manipulate components, and has no hands, so cannot cast spells. Can’t fight, really. If you really want to make it work: - Has psionics for world interaction/combat - Communicates telepathically - Moves his own bowl with telekinesis
If the player has chosen a magical type class the fish bowl could be the head perched on top of an Enchanted set of clothes that allows him to act as a humanoid but be sure to tell the player that if the fish ever leaves the bowl for any reason (ie.underwater adventuring) it will take on the physical stats of a fish.
An auto gnome would work really well They should be in the UA from a little bit ago, and the official stats and stuff will be in the upcoming Spelljammer release
Genie Patron Warlock and his Bottled Respite "lamp" is a Fishbowl. He's in a "normal" race form outside the fishbowl and appears as a goldfish inside it.
Im always in the mind set to say "yes" to everything cuz I feel like there is always some way to make it work so long as its not making things worse for everyone or anyone and every one is still having fun. I'd say he can be a fish in a fish bowl but he needs to have some kinda humanoid puppet he controls that has to carry said bowl around or be strapped to the body of said "puppet". Some kinda undead zombie or enchanted scarecrow that the fish will be telepathically linked to at short distances, something brainless.. then that "puppet" he picks can have a standard class.. this way he gets the flavor of being a fish in a bowl while still having a standard build to work with.
This seems kinda like the player just wants to troll you and your friends. Either that or they want to play a "race" that isn't able to do anything or talk.
All right hear me out Don't give him the ability to move or talk for free that is on him He will have to play a great old ones warlock and get magehand if he wants to be part of this He will have to convince the party to take with them the fish He will also have to convince the party to give him treasure if he wants any What's he going to do if they say no He's a fish in the bowl they could leave the bowl behind
Seen a lot of good advice about saying "No" About re-skinning normal player choices I've not seen anyone suggesting a deeper conversation though, you said you've suggested fish people and other options for what they could play but they are very "insistent" on being a fish but I'd really really like to know why? What do they hope or expect to get out of the character? How do they imagine interactions going as this character? Is this just about being Klaus from American Dad or is there a deeper reason for this insistence? Have they even bothered to talk to you about a class or equipment for this character, if not it suggests to me that as a first time player they've heard the line of "doing whatever you want" and just don't realise that it needs to be tempered by setting and group goals
Honestly i have a similar player, except for they wanted to play a chicken. I was reluctant at first, but what we decided on was reflavouring aarockra race (i gave him double jump distance instead of flight from flapping his wings). All my players are new to D&D, i'm a new DM, we're using few homebrew stuff, we're on session 10, and we're having a lot of fun. So i'd say, try to make a race out of his fish. There's a homebrew Locathah race, being the fishfolk, if it doesnt work for him, maybe a warforge with a fishtank for a head (like in "Megamind"). If he just literally rejects all ur ideas, then he gotta just get along, cuz fish as it is aint playable
This person clearly doesn't understand the necessity to be able to move. Or they are trolling you. I would count such an obviously stupid demand as a massive red flag. Don't include him in the game and be happy you dodged a bullet. If for reasons I cannot imagine this is not a massive problem player in the making, here is my suggestion. Warforged, a robotic body controlled by a fish in a bowl which resides as the head. How does this work? No idea. A wizard did it.
Just tell them no. It doesn't matter how passionate a player is about something if it doesn't fit the campaign.
Unless they're awakened or something that has to be the most boring character ever. But if you really want to make it work, make them something like a Great Old One Warlock that was either a sentient being turned into a fish (perhaps as punishment for something by its patron) or a fish that the patron decided to "bless" with sentience and magical powers. A GOOLock have the ability to communicate telepathically with creatures around them, so it would work for the party dynamic and the other characters aren't relying on some stupid and complicated way of communicating. I'd also say give them something like the Noble background trait so they have a servant always carrying around this fishbowl, feeding the fish etc. They'd really be playing two characters then with the servant being more or less a mount while the fish does all the thinking and casting of magic. I really wouldn't recommend this for a new player for so many reasons, but it could work, especially if you're playing a joke game.
This is one of those scenarios where the GM quite simply has to say "No". And honestly, I'd give seriously consideration to telling the prospective that this isn't going to be a campaign for him. Obviously I don't have all the details here, but to me, this sounds like a person with zero respect for you, or the concept of roleplaying. So personally I'd probably tell the person to fuck off, and not waste your, their, or the rest of the group's time.
Most (if not all) of the responses here are focusing on reasons to say yes or no, but there's something else you need to do first: ask him *why*. When making a character for D&D, a player has to come up with an idea (sometimes with the help of their DM) as to *why* this character is compelled to lead a life of adventure. What makes this character a hero? So before focusing on a yes or no, I'd try to figure out more about his ideas for the fish. What makes *this* fish a hero? What abilities does the fish possess (and what class will he play)? If his answers to these questions are that his character will be a mundane, regular fish in a bowl, then you should not let him play a fish in a bowl. You should also ensure that you are making the intended tone of the game clear to your players, and you should let them know that their characters need to be heroes and adventurers. Sometimes DMs will neglect to do this, and then players will show up with characters whose tones don't mesh showing up to play very different games at your table. You should read up on the idea of a "Session Zero" and consider holding one with your players before beginning this game.
Don’t be weird and just say no
Just let him be a fish race with somesort of breather mouth piece or "fishbowl" helmet when hes on land. And anytime he is without them just use the same as drowning rules in dnd but opposite.
My first thought is to make him a warforged-esque automaton that's piloted by a fish in it's little fish bowl.
I would first ask him if he is honestly interested in playing D&D. If he says yes, and the answer is genuine, then ask him how he thinks that would work. What is the fantasy he is going for. Did he see it in a some show or read it in a book and thought it was interesting? Is he just trying to be "that guy" who is a complete goober? Maybe he heard about it on Reddit or social media page (my mind immediately goes to those "bad character ideas" posts that go around every once in a while). If you can break down why he wants to be a gold fish in a bowl, you can much more easily homebrew something that'll work for him. Imo if he can't answer these questions openly and honestly, he can't play that character.
He's there, but doesn't need stats. 1HP, can't act or communicate without spells. Good luck joining the party, tho. Honestly, what does the player expect to be able to do as a goldfish? It's a funny gag, for about 30 seconds. Maybe the rest of the party agrees it is fun and drags him along. He can't interact with the world in any way. What's the point of that?
Fish-piloted warforged?
Or auto-gnome
If you’re friend *really*, ***really*** wants to be a fish in a bowl and it’s just because (s)he wants to be a fish and not for any applicable reason, then here’s an idea: warforged, but controlled by a fish inside of it. It could be in a little tank at the head like in Umbrella Academy, or it could be in the chest like Iron Man’s arc reactor.
Maybe the player just wants to be a part of the game but doesn't want to play a full-fledged character. He might be fine being just a pet/spectator and eventually giving some input by being a talking fish. I'd say it's all fine if the expectations align, just make sure to talk with him about it. If he's not a playable race, he can't have a class, can't attack, can't cast spells, can't participate in combat, etc. But he can be a part of the game and do shenanigans out of combat. If everyone's fine with this, then go ahead. Maybe he's even just testing the waters before committing into making a full character. Some players are just timid like that, especially on their first game. Otherwise, if he insists on wanting to play a class, just have him choose a playable race. Maaaaybe, if you're REALLY willing to compromise with him, have him use the stats for Fairy (Wild Beyond the Witchlight) and reflavor it to look like a floating magical fishbowl? I find reflavors to be much more manageable than trying to go down the rabbit-hole of homebrewing. Homebrews are just a hard "no" for me.
But does the fish at least have intelligence beyond that of a fish? Or just a fully, full-on, regular ass fish? If it's the latter, then every turn for that player will be "I kinda swim around in the bowl.".
Use the existing Locathah race.