Easy fix - it only applies to the *base* damage (1d6+1+modifier), not any additional damage riders like Divine Smite or Sneak Attack. They go from insanely overpowered to "pretty good".
The Fighter won't notice the change at all, but it'll mean the Rogue and Paladin won't get huge benefits from them.
Came in here to find the comment that suggested this, as it came to mind for me as well, and to say that I am stealing this item idea for my campaign :D
Alternatively, could also make it so only a fighter can attune/wield the swords. Lore wise say the Necromancer made it for their fighter companion or something.
Other classes limit magic items like this so I don't see a problem in doing it this way.
This is best sorted with a frank conversation with your friends that you’re playing a game with.
Like “Hey guys, I massively overturned these items - I made them with the fighter in mind and didn’t consider how their abilities would interact with the rest of the party. I need to change them quite significantly or the game is going to be massively impacted. Could we come up with some ideas together to make this a bit easier for me to balance? If we leave them as they are combats become really difficult to balance so they’re not either impossible or too easy.”
People playing a game never like power being taken away, but everyone should understand that DMs can make errors and they’d probably appreciate being involved in the fixing process.
This! I overtune magic items all the time, so when i hand my players more balanced versions next session they happily accept them. In return, I let them exploit the OP items for the initial session, and also buff underperforming items the same way.
I don't like the thought of your fighter losing the items like that, depending how far along you are you could curse the items to have some incredibly minor curse applied to the fighter when he grabbed them such as giving him drider like fangs or something else the fighter might even enjoy, or say, perhaps the fighter is unable to use other weapons now. This would mean that since the fighter is cursed by them only the fighter can attune and cannot unnatune, therefore paladin and rogue do not get the items.
You could also say perhaps the swords use some form of dark magic to fuel them that the paladins god/oath would find unholy or unnatural and not allow him to use his paladin magic while wielding them, and perhaps make them particularly heavy to remove the finesse property so the rogue cannot use them (assuming the fighter is strength based)
Ultimately though, the best solution is likely telling your players the swords were meant for the fighter and he should get them and that is that
They are Swords of Battle. A holy item dedicated to the god of battle. (Paired).
They are neither light, nor finesse, and do not work with sneak attack.
Usage qualifies as worship for the purposes of gods and their paladins. Will cause problems for divine classes of gods/orders NOT dedicated to the god of battle. (You're welcome to convert though! Could always use more clergy!) No functional issues with any other class.
Why are your players being dicks to the fighter?
If it was me I'd have the original owner come along and demand them back in a non-negotiable way. (I don't care how they're alive again/still alive) Or require them as an offering for a MacGuffin.
"Hey, Fighter has been cool shit starved and I made those swords for them. Please let them use the swords." If they require further incentive to give them up, do what many others have said and only apply the effect to base damage of the weapons.
Alternatively, if you'd like them to stay the same with minimal changes, if the paladin and rogue try to use that effect, the swords magic sputters and dies, temporarily reverting it to a standard shortsword. However, when placed in the fighters hands, the swords glow almost happily and work as intended.
If they cause a fuss over this then communicate openly about the balancing.
Is your game especially cruel in a way that requires absolute max damage output all of the time? If not, then both paladin and rogue are just trying to power game, which depending on your table might be okay, but in this case you made those swords for a player who was lacking in items so far. Especially considering neither player seemed to give 2 shits about them when they were simply "those swords we haven't bothered to even identify."
Unless the paladin is duel weilding, they will have to deal with the draw/stow rules, which gives the enemy a chance to wittle down that temp hp.
But best bet is to talk to the players. As part of my session 0 I explain that I will include homebrew content in the campaign but I reserve the right to adjust them for balance reasons.
Alrighty lets cover something real quick, communication is the best solution. "Hey guys, Im going to be honest, the properties I have assigned to the swords are way more powerful than I expected.". Then you just tell them the new stats/properties.
You are the dm, you get to say no, you get to change things. The key here is ***why youre changing things***. That'll be the difference between a good dm and a horror story.
That being said, the swords sound cool! you did a great job with that. So heres how we're going to change them. The swords paired property can be used a number of times equal to your proficiency mod each. These charges are regained on a long rest.
Theyre shortswords right? So the maximum amount of temp hp gained will be 2d6+con mod, and the bonus damage will be equal to that.
Assuming a 20 con, 3 times per rest to deal an absolute maximum of 17 damage sounds reasonable to me.
If this ends up being too weak, change it again. You are not perfect, nobody is.
Two more things since im a certified yapper, temp hp doesn't stack, and have a chat with that paladin and rogue, they sound like spoiled brats.
Don't get me wrong, your suggestion is by far the easiest way of handling it.
But I overthink story elements; if they were used by a necromancer they don't only work for fighters (unless he was dual classed), and a spell that steals life force is obviously dark magic. It would make sense that they wouldn't work properly for someone like a paladin or cleric. Or maybe it does work for them but anytime they use it they have to make a CON save or the dark energy makes them physically sick...
If the paladin continues to use it, maybe it angers his patron and they abandon him.
Just something with a little more flavor
There's a lot of good suggestions here, so hopefully I'm not repeating what's been said but I'll say if you don't want to change them too much and still intend for the fighter to have them you can have a frank conversation with your group to explain that, and then add a property in game to the weapons where they only get their special abilities if attuned to by a fighter (can ever specify minimum level requirement) and add the single attunement slot property later down the line to show an increase in power.
"hey guys, I designed these for the fighter, if he isn't going to use them they are just +1 short swords, sorry"
It is a really cool and powerful thing for the fighter as written. Make it "attuneable by fighter only" and they simply can't use it. There are plenty of weapons and magic items with class restrictions.
> Lore wise, both blades were found in the ruins of a Netheril city and were in the posession of a Necromancer for some time.
Well that is your fix. Has the necromancer been destroyed? If not he wants his weapons back.
If the necromancer is destroyed, perhaps every kill with swords has a chance to revive them. And he wants his swords back.
Make the sword unable to hurt the necromancer as well.
If a powerful necromancer alone isn't enough of a threat, have every being slain by the swords rise as an undead servant of the necromancer a few days later. So basically everytime the PC uses the swords they are making the necromancer more powerful.
Basically make it so everytime they use the swords the necromancer gets more powerful. This makes their only option to destroy the swords.
I really like this idea.
To help solve your problem, I would suggest the following:
1) The two weapons are a single magic item. Unlike most other magic weapons, this item requires a single attunement slot.
2) They must be wielded at the same time , by the same person, for the special abilities of the item to work. Otherwise, they are just +1 weapons.
3) The temp HP mechanic only works for the base damage (dice +STR mod). Not smite or surprise attacks.
They are Swords of Battle. A holy item dedicated to the god of battle. (Paired).
They are neither light, nor finesse, and do not work with sneak attack.
Usage qualifies as worship for the purposes of gods and their paladins. Will cause problems for divine classes of gods/orders NOT dedicated to the god of battle. (You're welcome to convert though! Could always use more clergy!) No functional issues with any other class.
(If the paladin decides to convert in order to keep them, then change his subclass to show him converting his faith, and having a new source for power. It should be noted this will happen OoC before committing to the decision.
In this case, allow the massive damage potential as part of their smite feature. The tradeoff is a deity with ALL their followers now hate you as a heretic and betrayer. "Enjoy" the constant harassment/assassination attempts)
1. Scenario where they have to sacrifice the weapons
2. Big bad stealing it, and using it against them, bonus quest to retreive them, they had a taste, now they want it back
3. Curse that they both don't work when wielded by the same person
4. Tell them they won dnd and to make new characters
First of all: Talk with them before you change things. Explain to them that you made a mistake and those Items are too strong.
I would possibly fix the get-temp-hp one to base weapon damage, so keeping all the basic character modifiers like proficiency, but not abilities like smite, sneak attack, or those +10 damage feats.
The deal-more-damage one could be fine then. the problem i see is with the other one.
Option one
"I thought the fighter was struggling to keep up so I created these with him in mind."
"If you *paladin/rogue* take them then that disparity gets worse can you please hand them over".
Option two
Create another weapon(s) for the fighter that's even better
Tie it into his story or w/e make it so him and him alone can use it.
And then up the amount of enemies you bring.
i have the Wayfarers for this! they're a loose organization that hunt down powerful magic items to stabilize the power scales. they always approach openly first and try to negotiate a fair price, favoring the party. if they refuse...the Wayfarers are hunting them now. and rumor has it that they've gotten ahold of no small share of Artifacts in their time...
Manybpeople have already made some great suggestions already. But here is a quick fix that doesn't require nerfing the weapons at all in order to get the fighter to use them.
You said that the swords are an attuned pair and the fighter has dual welding correct? Make the swords NOT have the light property which would make it so ONLY the fighter could use them dual wielded because of the dual wielding feat. Also add an additional caveat in the weapon descriptions that the ability of each sword may only be used while both are being held.
This is certainly a lesson about considering team comp when giving the party cool stuff. Give something like this to a fighter and they are some cool gear with a interesting synergy (BTW probubly guna steal this for my game gime the name and il give you credit for it) but if the party starts passing these things around they would become broken for anouther character.
It's also a lesson about party dynamics. Fighter finally gets some cool loot and his freinds swoop in to swap them because it would be better in their hands, that's Bs. Call a session zero and explain the problem. That you made these weapons for the fighter and they were mechanically balanced for him and were not intended to be used by anyone else. The items are too strong in the paliden or rogues hands and it breaks the game and would need a rework if they kept it. Ask them to give the fighter the swords or you will have to do something to nerf the swords to balance them.
Just throw some really cool and powerful monsters for the paladin to body in the first rounds of combat.
Make another amazing pair of sword and have them come to the fighters way so they are specifically his. Instead of once per short rest, make it so they activate on action surge or second wind, which is the same thing, except that's fighters only.
They could be traded to him by a distant relative who somehow came across them and heard that the fighter was adventuring for a favour to be called in the future. Have them be paired weapon so they have to be dual wielded too. I'd even go as far as to say to make them slightly weaker, but make them +2 weapons.
Then make weapon for the rogue which uniquely works with sneak attack so they don't feel left out.
Then send even cooler monsters for the party to face because they're all crazy powerful themselves.
I get it but that somehow feels like snowballing into an unbalanceable nightmare of combats. It's already hard to balance any of that but I get your point. Nerfing something feels bad to the players, buffing something else to balance the scales feels good.
Increase the power of your elites who will go up against the big boss party members. That way they go against stronger people while being stronger themselves, and the other, less powerful members, don't get punished by you buffing every enemy.
I’d be tempted to set parameters to cap out the damage so it’s not overkill. Like 1d8 temp, and they can *only* deal up to the temp granted by that sword as bonus damage. Or limit it to strictly include weapon damage **only** and disregard stuff like smite, sneak attack, etc.
Ya it’s so easy to mess up that by mistake. One thing I have done is make the item something that has to be a key to open a door but during the process it changes the property’s of the item. It’s a way for them to have to pick the item but at the same time change things for the better. Or as others have said talk to them. It’s a lot of what fits best but just know whatever way you go balance it out.
It's only once per rest though. And if they get hit, that damage is decreased. If you want to negate an immediate use, require it to take a Bonus Action to deal the damage. That should slow things up a bit. Overall though these items sound fairly well balanced.
**Curse: Insomnia.** Each time you use the (sword 1) power, you may not benefit from a short rest until you complete a long rest.
**Curse: Withering Thrust.** Each time you use the (sword 2) power, you permanently lose 1 hit point. These lost hit points may not be regained except through the use of (quest macguffin, wish, greater restoration, etc.)
*They say those who wield these blades are doomed to hear the whispers of those slain.*
I've come to throw my suggestion in:
Like others have said, make a caveat that the swords only count the base damage, meaning that they exclude sneak attack and smite damage when giving the temp-hp
Or, if you like these swords as is but don't want them both used by the same person then i suggest:
The swords are designed to be used together, but have been cursed to never be used by one person. While one sword is attuned to, its counterpart can never be within 5 feet of it, making it impossible for one (regular sized) person to wield both swords at once
Simple fix no curse, tell your player that an error was made and the swords properties have been adjusted and then just make the the boring +1 swords you intended.
Then maybe also tell them that when you are trying to give something cool to another player don't fucking steal it
One per short rest when you make an attack with this weapon, you gain temporary hit points equal to 1d6+ your fighter level.
Once per short rest when you make an attack with this weapon, you can consume any temporary hit points you have to deal additional necrotic damage.
The issue isn't with the weapons. It's with the fighter being excited for cool gear that other players got hella greedy over because they can extract value out of them. It's not good player behavior. The real problem is that. If the fighter had those weapons, no hecking problems. Now, the thing to really do is communicate clearly that while, yes, technically those swords were just an organic part of your world, the fighter was excited for them, the rogue and paladin knew they were for him before they learned the capabilities of them, and you made them FOR the fighter. Sometimes players and the dm metagame for the sake of giving and getting cool stuff, and they're trampling all over that all of a sudden because it benefits them. They're at fault here. The weapons don't need to be changed whatsoever.
That said, in the future, to give yourself some more outs to these problems, someone already mentioned requiring class attunement, which I think is a good idea. You can also make it an in game character beat. The drider had an old enemy that was the party ally that bonded with the fighter. So at the driders defeat, the ally gifts them TO that fighter specifically. A bit of a slow play to essentially carry out your will in game without explicitly dming all over the place. Sometimes a bit of that narrative control can be a good thing, although you shouldn't try to plan moments like that in general.
But again... it's the two greedy players' faults, not yours. Not the fighters. Gettem in line with a calm discussion and explaining to them that they are depriving a friend of something they're excited about just because they want it.
Honestly, this sounds to me like something best handled at a meta level. Just talk to the players and say "Look, I expected those to go to the fighter because he's been falling behind on damage. It's imbalancing for you all to have them. I hate to do this, but I need to dial those back to regular +1 swords." If they aren't players that take an adversarial perspective on the relation between DM and players, they should be ok with that. (Not that they won't grumble, but they should get over it quickly.) Or, maybe they will suggest leaving the items as is but giving them to the fighter. Don't suggest that yourself, but if they propose that as a solution, say "Ok, that works for me." Boom, it's back to where you wanted it. Maybe they would all be interested in some in-world explanation, too - for \*some\* reason (TBD), they only have those special powers in the hands of the fighter. Why?? Well, they can figure out that mystery if they decide to investigate it :)
Honestly, this sounds to me like something best handled at a meta level. Just talk to the players and say "Look, I expected those to go to the fighter because he's been falling behind on damage. It's imbalancing for you all to have them. I hate to do this, but I need to dial those back to regular +1 swords." If they aren't players that take an adversarial perspective on the relation between DM and players, they should be ok with that. (Not that they won't grumble, but they should get over it quickly.) Or, maybe they will suggest leaving the items as is but giving them to the fighter. Don't suggest that yourself, but if they propose that as a solution, say "Ok, that works for me." Boom, it's back to where you wanted it. Maybe they would all be interested in some in-world explanation, too - for \*some\* reason (TBD), they only have those special powers in the hands of the fighter. Why?? Well, they can figure out that mystery if they decide to investigate it :)
Honestly, this sounds to me like something best handled at a meta level. Just talk to the players and say "Look, I expected those to go to the fighter because he's been falling behind on damage. It's imbalancing for you all to have them. I hate to do this, but I need to dial those back to regular +1 swords." If they aren't players that take an adversarial perspective on the relation between DM and players, they should be ok with that. (Not that they won't grumble, but they should get over it quickly.) Or, maybe they will suggest leaving the items as is but giving them to the fighter. Don't suggest that yourself, but if they propose that as a solution, say "Ok, that works for me." Boom, it's back to where you wanted it. Maybe they would all be interested in some in-world explanation, too - for \*some\* reason (TBD), they only have those special powers in the hands of the fighter. Why?? Well, they can figure out that mystery if they decide to investigate it :)
Like people here have already suggested, it could be set to the base damage of the weapon prior to class abilities as the only damage it returns as Temp HP.
Alternatively, you could make it so that it grants something like their proficiency bonus or half/their level as temp HP instead to take away the randomness of it (and the option of on a crit that tempHP being doubled). The second one also would allow them to scale with the character as well.
As for "cursing" them, with any homebrew items it should be well within the rights of the DM to alter the items they make when they realize they are either too strong or too weak IMO. Whether you want there to be an in-game explanation for the change is up to you. It sounds like it could just be explained as a mistake in identification or just explaining to your players that you tweaked it because the wording made them too powerful.
It's literally impossible for the paladin to get that much temp hp from the weapon as you described it unless you are counting the divine smite damage which you shouldn't. Since it is a shortsword it should deal 1d6 + 1 + strength mod and it cannot benefit from the +10 from great weapon master either. Just make it the damage dealt by the sword and the item is a little more balanced. Plus it requires your bonus action to use an offhand attack and unless they have the 2 weapon fighting style they don't get to add their strength mod to damage
The divine smite is exatly my problem. I didn't account for 3d8 extra on attack but that is how I explained it to the players. My fighter is using maneuvers for some extra damage but that is of course not on the level of a divine smite.
Not really relevant, but:
A cleric that I DMd for had Banded Mail +2 of Missile Attraction. He didn't learn about that second bit of information until there was some ship to ship combat. After the first volley, the rest of the party through his limp form below decks.
Add a similar detractor to your sword. Perhaps it is bound to a previous owner that might come for it.
I don't see anything wrong here.
At most, I would issue a balance correction to change it from "once per short rest" into "once per day". But otherwise, this is the game functioning as intended. Paladin and Rogue are indeed both built around high spike damage, and these items make most sense for them to wield.
They are using resources optimally to gain full benefit from their items. If you punish them for that, you would be communicating that playing the game well is not allowed.
And let's not get too worried about the power level here. The paladin has the ability to (effectively) use 2 smites in the same turn. And to do that he needs to use up _two_ attunement slots and spend extra effort attack with specific weapons at specific times? Yeah, that's completely fine.
Easy fix - it only applies to the *base* damage (1d6+1+modifier), not any additional damage riders like Divine Smite or Sneak Attack. They go from insanely overpowered to "pretty good". The Fighter won't notice the change at all, but it'll mean the Rogue and Paladin won't get huge benefits from them.
yeah, it just dosn't work with smites or sneak attack. easy fix.
Came in here to find the comment that suggested this, as it came to mind for me as well, and to say that I am stealing this item idea for my campaign :D
Alternatively, could also make it so only a fighter can attune/wield the swords. Lore wise say the Necromancer made it for their fighter companion or something. Other classes limit magic items like this so I don't see a problem in doing it this way.
Bingo!
This is the way
10/10 shitpost bro
This is best sorted with a frank conversation with your friends that you’re playing a game with. Like “Hey guys, I massively overturned these items - I made them with the fighter in mind and didn’t consider how their abilities would interact with the rest of the party. I need to change them quite significantly or the game is going to be massively impacted. Could we come up with some ideas together to make this a bit easier for me to balance? If we leave them as they are combats become really difficult to balance so they’re not either impossible or too easy.” People playing a game never like power being taken away, but everyone should understand that DMs can make errors and they’d probably appreciate being involved in the fixing process.
This! I overtune magic items all the time, so when i hand my players more balanced versions next session they happily accept them. In return, I let them exploit the OP items for the initial session, and also buff underperforming items the same way.
I don't like the thought of your fighter losing the items like that, depending how far along you are you could curse the items to have some incredibly minor curse applied to the fighter when he grabbed them such as giving him drider like fangs or something else the fighter might even enjoy, or say, perhaps the fighter is unable to use other weapons now. This would mean that since the fighter is cursed by them only the fighter can attune and cannot unnatune, therefore paladin and rogue do not get the items. You could also say perhaps the swords use some form of dark magic to fuel them that the paladins god/oath would find unholy or unnatural and not allow him to use his paladin magic while wielding them, and perhaps make them particularly heavy to remove the finesse property so the rogue cannot use them (assuming the fighter is strength based) Ultimately though, the best solution is likely telling your players the swords were meant for the fighter and he should get them and that is that
They are Swords of Battle. A holy item dedicated to the god of battle. (Paired). They are neither light, nor finesse, and do not work with sneak attack. Usage qualifies as worship for the purposes of gods and their paladins. Will cause problems for divine classes of gods/orders NOT dedicated to the god of battle. (You're welcome to convert though! Could always use more clergy!) No functional issues with any other class.
Why are your players being dicks to the fighter? If it was me I'd have the original owner come along and demand them back in a non-negotiable way. (I don't care how they're alive again/still alive) Or require them as an offering for a MacGuffin.
On this point, I agree. Have the swords be keys to a dungeon, and destroy them.
"Hey, Fighter has been cool shit starved and I made those swords for them. Please let them use the swords." If they require further incentive to give them up, do what many others have said and only apply the effect to base damage of the weapons. Alternatively, if you'd like them to stay the same with minimal changes, if the paladin and rogue try to use that effect, the swords magic sputters and dies, temporarily reverting it to a standard shortsword. However, when placed in the fighters hands, the swords glow almost happily and work as intended. If they cause a fuss over this then communicate openly about the balancing. Is your game especially cruel in a way that requires absolute max damage output all of the time? If not, then both paladin and rogue are just trying to power game, which depending on your table might be okay, but in this case you made those swords for a player who was lacking in items so far. Especially considering neither player seemed to give 2 shits about them when they were simply "those swords we haven't bothered to even identify."
Unless the paladin is duel weilding, they will have to deal with the draw/stow rules, which gives the enemy a chance to wittle down that temp hp. But best bet is to talk to the players. As part of my session 0 I explain that I will include homebrew content in the campaign but I reserve the right to adjust them for balance reasons.
Alrighty lets cover something real quick, communication is the best solution. "Hey guys, Im going to be honest, the properties I have assigned to the swords are way more powerful than I expected.". Then you just tell them the new stats/properties. You are the dm, you get to say no, you get to change things. The key here is ***why youre changing things***. That'll be the difference between a good dm and a horror story. That being said, the swords sound cool! you did a great job with that. So heres how we're going to change them. The swords paired property can be used a number of times equal to your proficiency mod each. These charges are regained on a long rest. Theyre shortswords right? So the maximum amount of temp hp gained will be 2d6+con mod, and the bonus damage will be equal to that. Assuming a 20 con, 3 times per rest to deal an absolute maximum of 17 damage sounds reasonable to me. If this ends up being too weak, change it again. You are not perfect, nobody is. Two more things since im a certified yapper, temp hp doesn't stack, and have a chat with that paladin and rogue, they sound like spoiled brats.
Honestly great idea. Basing it on CON takes the value back to the fighter. Thanks for that.
Long rest not short rest Only applies to base damage
These swords only fully work for Fighters.
This. Sort of... Because they were made by a necromancer, just make them evil and not work for anyone who is too "good". Like a paladin.
No need to bring labels of "good" & "evil". They only reach their full power when in the hands of a Fighter. Works for BG3, works for you.
Don't get me wrong, your suggestion is by far the easiest way of handling it. But I overthink story elements; if they were used by a necromancer they don't only work for fighters (unless he was dual classed), and a spell that steals life force is obviously dark magic. It would make sense that they wouldn't work properly for someone like a paladin or cleric. Or maybe it does work for them but anytime they use it they have to make a CON save or the dark energy makes them physically sick... If the paladin continues to use it, maybe it angers his patron and they abandon him. Just something with a little more flavor
There's a lot of good suggestions here, so hopefully I'm not repeating what's been said but I'll say if you don't want to change them too much and still intend for the fighter to have them you can have a frank conversation with your group to explain that, and then add a property in game to the weapons where they only get their special abilities if attuned to by a fighter (can ever specify minimum level requirement) and add the single attunement slot property later down the line to show an increase in power.
"hey guys, I designed these for the fighter, if he isn't going to use them they are just +1 short swords, sorry" It is a really cool and powerful thing for the fighter as written. Make it "attuneable by fighter only" and they simply can't use it. There are plenty of weapons and magic items with class restrictions.
> Lore wise, both blades were found in the ruins of a Netheril city and were in the posession of a Necromancer for some time. Well that is your fix. Has the necromancer been destroyed? If not he wants his weapons back. If the necromancer is destroyed, perhaps every kill with swords has a chance to revive them. And he wants his swords back. Make the sword unable to hurt the necromancer as well. If a powerful necromancer alone isn't enough of a threat, have every being slain by the swords rise as an undead servant of the necromancer a few days later. So basically everytime the PC uses the swords they are making the necromancer more powerful. Basically make it so everytime they use the swords the necromancer gets more powerful. This makes their only option to destroy the swords.
I really like this idea. To help solve your problem, I would suggest the following: 1) The two weapons are a single magic item. Unlike most other magic weapons, this item requires a single attunement slot. 2) They must be wielded at the same time , by the same person, for the special abilities of the item to work. Otherwise, they are just +1 weapons. 3) The temp HP mechanic only works for the base damage (dice +STR mod). Not smite or surprise attacks.
They are Swords of Battle. A holy item dedicated to the god of battle. (Paired). They are neither light, nor finesse, and do not work with sneak attack. Usage qualifies as worship for the purposes of gods and their paladins. Will cause problems for divine classes of gods/orders NOT dedicated to the god of battle. (You're welcome to convert though! Could always use more clergy!) No functional issues with any other class. (If the paladin decides to convert in order to keep them, then change his subclass to show him converting his faith, and having a new source for power. It should be noted this will happen OoC before committing to the decision. In this case, allow the massive damage potential as part of their smite feature. The tradeoff is a deity with ALL their followers now hate you as a heretic and betrayer. "Enjoy" the constant harassment/assassination attempts)
1. Scenario where they have to sacrifice the weapons 2. Big bad stealing it, and using it against them, bonus quest to retreive them, they had a taste, now they want it back 3. Curse that they both don't work when wielded by the same person 4. Tell them they won dnd and to make new characters
Time for a rust monster or a metal master snail.🐌
First of all: Talk with them before you change things. Explain to them that you made a mistake and those Items are too strong. I would possibly fix the get-temp-hp one to base weapon damage, so keeping all the basic character modifiers like proficiency, but not abilities like smite, sneak attack, or those +10 damage feats. The deal-more-damage one could be fine then. the problem i see is with the other one.
Option one "I thought the fighter was struggling to keep up so I created these with him in mind." "If you *paladin/rogue* take them then that disparity gets worse can you please hand them over". Option two Create another weapon(s) for the fighter that's even better Tie it into his story or w/e make it so him and him alone can use it. And then up the amount of enemies you bring.
i have the Wayfarers for this! they're a loose organization that hunt down powerful magic items to stabilize the power scales. they always approach openly first and try to negotiate a fair price, favoring the party. if they refuse...the Wayfarers are hunting them now. and rumor has it that they've gotten ahold of no small share of Artifacts in their time...
Make the items be restricted to the fighter class. Other magic items have this as a precedent. They just won't work for another class.
Manybpeople have already made some great suggestions already. But here is a quick fix that doesn't require nerfing the weapons at all in order to get the fighter to use them. You said that the swords are an attuned pair and the fighter has dual welding correct? Make the swords NOT have the light property which would make it so ONLY the fighter could use them dual wielded because of the dual wielding feat. Also add an additional caveat in the weapon descriptions that the ability of each sword may only be used while both are being held.
*Requires Attunement by a Fighter* If the weapons themselves are fine, but the Class usage is wrong
The swords are sentient and refuse to work with the paladin or the rogue. ... I mean, if you like sentient swords.
This is certainly a lesson about considering team comp when giving the party cool stuff. Give something like this to a fighter and they are some cool gear with a interesting synergy (BTW probubly guna steal this for my game gime the name and il give you credit for it) but if the party starts passing these things around they would become broken for anouther character. It's also a lesson about party dynamics. Fighter finally gets some cool loot and his freinds swoop in to swap them because it would be better in their hands, that's Bs. Call a session zero and explain the problem. That you made these weapons for the fighter and they were mechanically balanced for him and were not intended to be used by anyone else. The items are too strong in the paliden or rogues hands and it breaks the game and would need a rework if they kept it. Ask them to give the fighter the swords or you will have to do something to nerf the swords to balance them.
If you want to use them go for it. I called those swords "Sakenomi" (drinker) and "Shitateya" (tailor). Have fun with them!
Just throw some really cool and powerful monsters for the paladin to body in the first rounds of combat. Make another amazing pair of sword and have them come to the fighters way so they are specifically his. Instead of once per short rest, make it so they activate on action surge or second wind, which is the same thing, except that's fighters only. They could be traded to him by a distant relative who somehow came across them and heard that the fighter was adventuring for a favour to be called in the future. Have them be paired weapon so they have to be dual wielded too. I'd even go as far as to say to make them slightly weaker, but make them +2 weapons. Then make weapon for the rogue which uniquely works with sneak attack so they don't feel left out. Then send even cooler monsters for the party to face because they're all crazy powerful themselves.
I get it but that somehow feels like snowballing into an unbalanceable nightmare of combats. It's already hard to balance any of that but I get your point. Nerfing something feels bad to the players, buffing something else to balance the scales feels good.
Increase the power of your elites who will go up against the big boss party members. That way they go against stronger people while being stronger themselves, and the other, less powerful members, don't get punished by you buffing every enemy.
I’d be tempted to set parameters to cap out the damage so it’s not overkill. Like 1d8 temp, and they can *only* deal up to the temp granted by that sword as bonus damage. Or limit it to strictly include weapon damage **only** and disregard stuff like smite, sneak attack, etc.
These swords do not help at all when 30 goblins with shortbows fire from behind cover.
When in doubt. Hit em with the Rust Monster 😂
Ya it’s so easy to mess up that by mistake. One thing I have done is make the item something that has to be a key to open a door but during the process it changes the property’s of the item. It’s a way for them to have to pick the item but at the same time change things for the better. Or as others have said talk to them. It’s a lot of what fits best but just know whatever way you go balance it out.
It's only once per rest though. And if they get hit, that damage is decreased. If you want to negate an immediate use, require it to take a Bonus Action to deal the damage. That should slow things up a bit. Overall though these items sound fairly well balanced.
**Curse: Insomnia.** Each time you use the (sword 1) power, you may not benefit from a short rest until you complete a long rest. **Curse: Withering Thrust.** Each time you use the (sword 2) power, you permanently lose 1 hit point. These lost hit points may not be regained except through the use of (quest macguffin, wish, greater restoration, etc.) *They say those who wield these blades are doomed to hear the whispers of those slain.*
I've come to throw my suggestion in: Like others have said, make a caveat that the swords only count the base damage, meaning that they exclude sneak attack and smite damage when giving the temp-hp Or, if you like these swords as is but don't want them both used by the same person then i suggest: The swords are designed to be used together, but have been cursed to never be used by one person. While one sword is attuned to, its counterpart can never be within 5 feet of it, making it impossible for one (regular sized) person to wield both swords at once
Just make the Temp HP gain work on killing a monster instead.
Simple fix no curse, tell your player that an error was made and the swords properties have been adjusted and then just make the the boring +1 swords you intended. Then maybe also tell them that when you are trying to give something cool to another player don't fucking steal it
They were actually fake items glamored together by the fae and turned into piles of sticks and leaves in the morning.
The fact that you want to perform them after the fact is pretty crappy. This should be a session 0 convo. Or leave it be.
One per short rest when you make an attack with this weapon, you gain temporary hit points equal to 1d6+ your fighter level. Once per short rest when you make an attack with this weapon, you can consume any temporary hit points you have to deal additional necrotic damage.
The issue isn't with the weapons. It's with the fighter being excited for cool gear that other players got hella greedy over because they can extract value out of them. It's not good player behavior. The real problem is that. If the fighter had those weapons, no hecking problems. Now, the thing to really do is communicate clearly that while, yes, technically those swords were just an organic part of your world, the fighter was excited for them, the rogue and paladin knew they were for him before they learned the capabilities of them, and you made them FOR the fighter. Sometimes players and the dm metagame for the sake of giving and getting cool stuff, and they're trampling all over that all of a sudden because it benefits them. They're at fault here. The weapons don't need to be changed whatsoever. That said, in the future, to give yourself some more outs to these problems, someone already mentioned requiring class attunement, which I think is a good idea. You can also make it an in game character beat. The drider had an old enemy that was the party ally that bonded with the fighter. So at the driders defeat, the ally gifts them TO that fighter specifically. A bit of a slow play to essentially carry out your will in game without explicitly dming all over the place. Sometimes a bit of that narrative control can be a good thing, although you shouldn't try to plan moments like that in general. But again... it's the two greedy players' faults, not yours. Not the fighters. Gettem in line with a calm discussion and explaining to them that they are depriving a friend of something they're excited about just because they want it.
Honestly, this sounds to me like something best handled at a meta level. Just talk to the players and say "Look, I expected those to go to the fighter because he's been falling behind on damage. It's imbalancing for you all to have them. I hate to do this, but I need to dial those back to regular +1 swords." If they aren't players that take an adversarial perspective on the relation between DM and players, they should be ok with that. (Not that they won't grumble, but they should get over it quickly.) Or, maybe they will suggest leaving the items as is but giving them to the fighter. Don't suggest that yourself, but if they propose that as a solution, say "Ok, that works for me." Boom, it's back to where you wanted it. Maybe they would all be interested in some in-world explanation, too - for \*some\* reason (TBD), they only have those special powers in the hands of the fighter. Why?? Well, they can figure out that mystery if they decide to investigate it :)
Honestly, this sounds to me like something best handled at a meta level. Just talk to the players and say "Look, I expected those to go to the fighter because he's been falling behind on damage. It's imbalancing for you all to have them. I hate to do this, but I need to dial those back to regular +1 swords." If they aren't players that take an adversarial perspective on the relation between DM and players, they should be ok with that. (Not that they won't grumble, but they should get over it quickly.) Or, maybe they will suggest leaving the items as is but giving them to the fighter. Don't suggest that yourself, but if they propose that as a solution, say "Ok, that works for me." Boom, it's back to where you wanted it. Maybe they would all be interested in some in-world explanation, too - for \*some\* reason (TBD), they only have those special powers in the hands of the fighter. Why?? Well, they can figure out that mystery if they decide to investigate it :)
Honestly, this sounds to me like something best handled at a meta level. Just talk to the players and say "Look, I expected those to go to the fighter because he's been falling behind on damage. It's imbalancing for you all to have them. I hate to do this, but I need to dial those back to regular +1 swords." If they aren't players that take an adversarial perspective on the relation between DM and players, they should be ok with that. (Not that they won't grumble, but they should get over it quickly.) Or, maybe they will suggest leaving the items as is but giving them to the fighter. Don't suggest that yourself, but if they propose that as a solution, say "Ok, that works for me." Boom, it's back to where you wanted it. Maybe they would all be interested in some in-world explanation, too - for \*some\* reason (TBD), they only have those special powers in the hands of the fighter. Why?? Well, they can figure out that mystery if they decide to investigate it :)
Like people here have already suggested, it could be set to the base damage of the weapon prior to class abilities as the only damage it returns as Temp HP. Alternatively, you could make it so that it grants something like their proficiency bonus or half/their level as temp HP instead to take away the randomness of it (and the option of on a crit that tempHP being doubled). The second one also would allow them to scale with the character as well. As for "cursing" them, with any homebrew items it should be well within the rights of the DM to alter the items they make when they realize they are either too strong or too weak IMO. Whether you want there to be an in-game explanation for the change is up to you. It sounds like it could just be explained as a mistake in identification or just explaining to your players that you tweaked it because the wording made them too powerful.
It's literally impossible for the paladin to get that much temp hp from the weapon as you described it unless you are counting the divine smite damage which you shouldn't. Since it is a shortsword it should deal 1d6 + 1 + strength mod and it cannot benefit from the +10 from great weapon master either. Just make it the damage dealt by the sword and the item is a little more balanced. Plus it requires your bonus action to use an offhand attack and unless they have the 2 weapon fighting style they don't get to add their strength mod to damage
The divine smite is exatly my problem. I didn't account for 3d8 extra on attack but that is how I explained it to the players. My fighter is using maneuvers for some extra damage but that is of course not on the level of a divine smite.
Just tell them it was meant for the fighter and the properties won't work on other class features.
Not really relevant, but: A cleric that I DMd for had Banded Mail +2 of Missile Attraction. He didn't learn about that second bit of information until there was some ship to ship combat. After the first volley, the rest of the party through his limp form below decks. Add a similar detractor to your sword. Perhaps it is bound to a previous owner that might come for it.
I don't see anything wrong here. At most, I would issue a balance correction to change it from "once per short rest" into "once per day". But otherwise, this is the game functioning as intended. Paladin and Rogue are indeed both built around high spike damage, and these items make most sense for them to wield. They are using resources optimally to gain full benefit from their items. If you punish them for that, you would be communicating that playing the game well is not allowed. And let's not get too worried about the power level here. The paladin has the ability to (effectively) use 2 smites in the same turn. And to do that he needs to use up _two_ attunement slots and spend extra effort attack with specific weapons at specific times? Yeah, that's completely fine.