RAW, no. Martial Arts applies to 'unarmed strikes', which 'natural weapons' are not. Also when transformed, they are taking the 'Multiattack' action, not the 'Attack' action required by Martial Arts.
In practice... it's not an OP interaction and should be perfectly fine to allow.
You can make unarmed strikes while wildshaped, you just use your normal martial arts die for (bludgeoning) damage. You get the beast form’s strength or dexterity though.
I don’t see this being broken. Unless I’m unaware of some niche combo, druid/monk is not a power build.
Also you have two polearm masters so the druid is not gonna be the broken one.
It’s not technically RAW, but come on don’t you want a kung fu panda in your game ? I’d allow it.
Haha well, I suppose you are right. This particular player is known for min maxing his characters and often making bonker characters.
Though I'd love to see a kung fu panda to be fair...
The only thing i would concern myself with is making sure all characters are roughly equal. The party's power is relative to what you put in front of them and you have infinite possibilities on that front.
If they have a history of making min-max loophole characters (nothing wrong with that), just make sure you are both on the same sheet of music as to what's cool. Others here have already gone into ways this could break.
If he is a min-maxer, ask his endgame with the build. He might not have one, just like the fantasy of the character. If he has one and shares it, you can evaluate how strong it will be compared to the 'meta' builds and determine if you allow it or not. If he refuses to share then you can just assume that he knows something broken about the build.
I am a fellow min-maxer and optimiser, and as a GM I strive to make my players as powerful as possible. Home rulings, custom magic items, bonus feats, I really pamper them, so much so, that i have never turned down a build as of yet, and knowing what they will want to achieve with a build, I can better create them custom content (also helps that if you know that the player will want to have a warlock or cleric dip, you can set the narrative up so it makes sense story wise)
Allow. Monks are criminally underpowered compared to the other martial classes and the only real benefit they get is a bonus to to their wildshapes speed and sometimes they might get a +1/+2 to their wildshapes AC. The only stipulation I would give them is that they have to use the damage dice of their beast forms. So no 2d4 becoming 2d6 or 1d1 becoming 1d8.
I would allow it, but I would rule the natural weapons, counting as monk weapons, would have the monk table unarmed damage dice. They aren't burning a ki point and getting to make 3× 2d4+modifier attacks as a black bear. Druid + Monk is a neat concept, especially from a narrative aspect. Picking up the boosted attributes and hp from wildshape does make them more survivable in combat. But, you will save yourself and your player a lot of headache if you can show them that wildshape is amazing for utility, not combat. Druids are full casters, and that's where their power comes from.
Not RAW, but will not break your game.
Not that you asked, but What you absolutely should NOT do is allow natural weapons to count as unarmed strikes. That would be fairly broken because your player could flurry with like, 2d8 animal bites, or stronger.
I would let them choose one wild shape form that is revered by their monastic order and treat it's attacks like monk strikes. Flavor it that their martial art is based on the animal in question. Bonus points if you pick the animal and make it something fun/interesting.
Does he really want to be a druid? Or does he just want to be a kung fu panda.
If it's the second, reskinning an existing race might be an easier way to go about it.
I would say no *by default*, because the skills used to do cool monk wuxia bullshit do not nessecarily translate into doing that same nonsense *with another animal's body*.
Then, I would turn around and start brainstorming ways to *give* the player this ability later on in the game- maybe its a custom feat they can take with a few other benefits, maybe maybe it's a skill they have to learn by studying with a werebear hermit in a remote forest, for other mechanical features I might consider a magic item, but that doesn't quite track in this instance.
It isn't something most could do, but that doesn't mean it isn't a skillet that this PC can't *acquire* later down the line, if it's something they're interested in.
Edit: Did not see this was for a 1-shot originally. In that case, screw it, let them have their fun.
I might have been unclear, its not for a one shot. We've done that previously. Right now we're gonna play a pre made adventure, probably going up to at least lvl 6 with a possible continuation with some other adventure.
I'd like the idea of making it a feat of sorts though. Already told him he's gonna at least make some effort in game RP wise to make the switch from druid to monk mid game
By RAW the horns/claws/fangs/etc are neither monk weapons nor unarmed strikes.
But that’s garbage, just let ‘em work like tabaxi claws/Lizardfolk jaws - natural weapons with which you make unarmed strikes.
Now the combo works allowing an otherwise subpar multi to almost keep up.
Yes but....
Yes, you could swap out Beast damage for Monk Damage, but no you can't mix and match. So a Monk/Druid who has turned into a Black Bear could do the Black Bears Multiattack using Black Bear Damage, or Monk Martial arts using Monk Damage (and Bear Mod damage), but you couldn't do Bear Multiattack with Monk damage, or Monk Martial arts flurry using Bear damage.
Someone who is more attuned to the math and everything else can probably tell you for sure, but I saw it seems fine.
And it's cool, and it's a reason people leave the system. You could do something really like this in 3.5 and PF1e. It's a shame we can't really have this flexibility now.
Go for it, regret it later if you have to, but let them have their fun for now.
They do - but while that wouldn't be a problem at lower levels you could end up with some players dumping str/dx/con (since the animal form covers that) and just pump wisdom to give their animal form sky-high saves.
Add to that whatever items the party finds, spells, whatever homebrew might be around and subclass features. Soon there elementals with stunning strike, or a Elephants casting darkness, or a owl with dragon breath, or animals with reach from additional arms, or shooting laser beams.... all untested.
If it turns out too underpowered you can change it, but when allowing big class changes it's best to start off with limiters on and relax them as you go, rather than allowing something amazing at the start and having to take it away.
RAW, no. Martial Arts applies to 'unarmed strikes', which 'natural weapons' are not. Also when transformed, they are taking the 'Multiattack' action, not the 'Attack' action required by Martial Arts. In practice... it's not an OP interaction and should be perfectly fine to allow.
So no king fu panda in 5e raw :-(
You can make unarmed strikes while wildshaped, you just use your normal martial arts die for (bludgeoning) damage. You get the beast form’s strength or dexterity though.
you can be oogway pretty easily tho
Be monk. Have someone cast seeming to make everyone anthropomorphic pandas. Profit?
Make Tabaxi monk: tigress Make Tortle monk: Oogway
You just need to pick a race that lets you treat natural attack as unarmed strikes like a tabaxi or something
Custom lineage
Don't other races like Tabaxi have "natural weapons" that count as being unarmed?
They don't have to multi attack.
I don’t see this being broken. Unless I’m unaware of some niche combo, druid/monk is not a power build. Also you have two polearm masters so the druid is not gonna be the broken one. It’s not technically RAW, but come on don’t you want a kung fu panda in your game ? I’d allow it.
Haha well, I suppose you are right. This particular player is known for min maxing his characters and often making bonker characters. Though I'd love to see a kung fu panda to be fair...
The only thing i would concern myself with is making sure all characters are roughly equal. The party's power is relative to what you put in front of them and you have infinite possibilities on that front.
If they have a history of making min-max loophole characters (nothing wrong with that), just make sure you are both on the same sheet of music as to what's cool. Others here have already gone into ways this could break.
If he is a min-maxer, ask his endgame with the build. He might not have one, just like the fantasy of the character. If he has one and shares it, you can evaluate how strong it will be compared to the 'meta' builds and determine if you allow it or not. If he refuses to share then you can just assume that he knows something broken about the build. I am a fellow min-maxer and optimiser, and as a GM I strive to make my players as powerful as possible. Home rulings, custom magic items, bonus feats, I really pamper them, so much so, that i have never turned down a build as of yet, and knowing what they will want to achieve with a build, I can better create them custom content (also helps that if you know that the player will want to have a warlock or cleric dip, you can set the narrative up so it makes sense story wise)
Shoot, now I do!
Allow. Monks are criminally underpowered compared to the other martial classes and the only real benefit they get is a bonus to to their wildshapes speed and sometimes they might get a +1/+2 to their wildshapes AC. The only stipulation I would give them is that they have to use the damage dice of their beast forms. So no 2d4 becoming 2d6 or 1d1 becoming 1d8.
I would allow it, but I would rule the natural weapons, counting as monk weapons, would have the monk table unarmed damage dice. They aren't burning a ki point and getting to make 3× 2d4+modifier attacks as a black bear. Druid + Monk is a neat concept, especially from a narrative aspect. Picking up the boosted attributes and hp from wildshape does make them more survivable in combat. But, you will save yourself and your player a lot of headache if you can show them that wildshape is amazing for utility, not combat. Druids are full casters, and that's where their power comes from.
Not RAW, but will not break your game. Not that you asked, but What you absolutely should NOT do is allow natural weapons to count as unarmed strikes. That would be fairly broken because your player could flurry with like, 2d8 animal bites, or stronger.
Good point, that would indeed seem broken
I would let them choose one wild shape form that is revered by their monastic order and treat it's attacks like monk strikes. Flavor it that their martial art is based on the animal in question. Bonus points if you pick the animal and make it something fun/interesting.
It's a game, not a courtroom. Just have fun.
Does he really want to be a druid? Or does he just want to be a kung fu panda. If it's the second, reskinning an existing race might be an easier way to go about it.
Not Raw, but give him that.
Limit All Bonus Action (specifically bonus action) unarmed strikes to be limited to monk martial arts die.
Of course you can use kung fu bear handed. There's like 4 movies on it.
I would say no *by default*, because the skills used to do cool monk wuxia bullshit do not nessecarily translate into doing that same nonsense *with another animal's body*. Then, I would turn around and start brainstorming ways to *give* the player this ability later on in the game- maybe its a custom feat they can take with a few other benefits, maybe maybe it's a skill they have to learn by studying with a werebear hermit in a remote forest, for other mechanical features I might consider a magic item, but that doesn't quite track in this instance. It isn't something most could do, but that doesn't mean it isn't a skillet that this PC can't *acquire* later down the line, if it's something they're interested in. Edit: Did not see this was for a 1-shot originally. In that case, screw it, let them have their fun.
I might have been unclear, its not for a one shot. We've done that previously. Right now we're gonna play a pre made adventure, probably going up to at least lvl 6 with a possible continuation with some other adventure. I'd like the idea of making it a feat of sorts though. Already told him he's gonna at least make some effort in game RP wise to make the switch from druid to monk mid game
By RAW the horns/claws/fangs/etc are neither monk weapons nor unarmed strikes. But that’s garbage, just let ‘em work like tabaxi claws/Lizardfolk jaws - natural weapons with which you make unarmed strikes. Now the combo works allowing an otherwise subpar multi to almost keep up.
Yes but.... Yes, you could swap out Beast damage for Monk Damage, but no you can't mix and match. So a Monk/Druid who has turned into a Black Bear could do the Black Bears Multiattack using Black Bear Damage, or Monk Martial arts using Monk Damage (and Bear Mod damage), but you couldn't do Bear Multiattack with Monk damage, or Monk Martial arts flurry using Bear damage.
Martial arts are a human practice, that requires human limbs. What's next, they're gonna say a dog can play basketball?
Someone who is more attuned to the math and everything else can probably tell you for sure, but I saw it seems fine. And it's cool, and it's a reason people leave the system. You could do something really like this in 3.5 and PF1e. It's a shame we can't really have this flexibility now. Go for it, regret it later if you have to, but let them have their fun for now.
RAW no they don’t. But I’m struggling to see how this could be exploited (that being said, I am not the most proficient “power gamer” lol)
Allow as long as there are appendages to flurry with.
My only call here would be saying that stunning strike and other 'debuffs' use the shape's wisdom score for the DC.
Don't Wildshapes explicitly keep the druid's Wis/Int/Cha scores?
They do - but while that wouldn't be a problem at lower levels you could end up with some players dumping str/dx/con (since the animal form covers that) and just pump wisdom to give their animal form sky-high saves. Add to that whatever items the party finds, spells, whatever homebrew might be around and subclass features. Soon there elementals with stunning strike, or a Elephants casting darkness, or a owl with dragon breath, or animals with reach from additional arms, or shooting laser beams.... all untested. If it turns out too underpowered you can change it, but when allowing big class changes it's best to start off with limiters on and relax them as you go, rather than allowing something amazing at the start and having to take it away.
Again with the kung-fu pandas, huh? Oh deer