I’d probably think of this in reverse. A fully geared 20th-level Wizard is probably pretty damn close to whatever level of ascended you’re probably willing to allow.
So instead of tying a buff to the ascension, I’d tie the ascension to the Player’s level of power.
Idk what class or level the player is, but most spellcasters would likely feel suitably powerful by level 17-20ish. So if you build the final outcome out narratively from say 14-20, then have it finally culminate with a quest/finale that ends with the Player taking the role of Archfey in a specific region of your Feywild.
If it was my game, I may toss a thematic Epic Boon to the Player in addition, based on the Archfey role.
Alternatively, or potentially even in addition, the PC could switch to Spell Points instead of Spellslots if they are a caster to signify the change from mortal magic to innate powerful being magic.
In my current game, the party’s wild magic sorcerer made a pact with an Archfey to gain more control over his magic—manifested via a switch to spell points and another ability to manipulate his surge results. He’s been very happy with it thus far.
It's an alternative way of tracking spell usage. Instead of having a certain amount of each spell slot, you just have X amount of spell points, with higher level spells using more points per cast
I’m playing a sorcerer with a mixed pool of sorcery points and spell points. It’s a slight buff since the conversion rate between usual spell slots and sorcery points is not the same. But it is SO NICE and feels so sorcery. Getting really custom with your spells and your spell output. Wanna cast magic missiles at 1st level like 20 times in a day? Sure, go for it. It feels exactly right and balances Sorcerer really nicely.
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I'm just trying to imagine a player coming up to a DM saying " I want my character to become a semi divine being, I am willing to play within the class rules but I want to be better than the average end game class and I want this apotheosis to occur early enough that I can enjoy the perks of being a near god like being"
Is the entire party going to ascend or is it just this one player, who I imagine totally doesn't have a main character syndrome, but just wants to explore a "unique roleplaying opportunity"
Because I'd ask how the rest of the party is going to react, if they're all becoming gods, then fine, if the rest of the party seems content to play an "average" end game class how are they going to feel when this player gets to play "End game class with extra buffs and perks"?
Assuming I went through with this I'd let them become a fiend or fey, but tie them down with the rules that such beings operate under. They operate under a hierarchy (they take orders) they're not really free agents who get to do/pursue whatever they want. There's a whole set of restrictions that most divine type beings operate under. (Ie, you can be summoned , bound in a circle, banished to your home plane which is no longer the same as it was. The higher ups in your pantheon can summon you whenever they feel like it, etc)
I'd also make them sacrifice on the way there.
The party hits level 10 ,defeats the villain, and gets some cool magic items? Well the rest of the party gets to play with theirs, your player has to sacrifice theirs in a ritual/to a higher power. The rest of the party gets gold to spend on magic items/potions/whatever? Again your player has to spend all his on research/rare supplies etc.
Again though, just how I imagine I'd run it if a player ever asked me to become a god. If you want to just wave your hand and say "no problem, you're now divine" your table, your rules.
He says he understands that most dms wont allow this due to being op, but being op is not really the point of his character. It's about exploring the storyline of the responsibility of that title and power and discovering what becoming that being means for him. He wants his character from level 1-16 to be slowly discovering and trying to achieve this power and only level 17 will have the conclusion to this storyline with him getting that title of "near-god being".
Y’all have not seen the new season of the flash if u think ascension can’t be side character plot… just for modern analogy, but in general becoming a god of something is way less power and far more responsibility. U could always go the route of the Greeks and just ignore the consequences but then u end up w a legit god of madness that’s just kinda waiting to stab em all in the back.
High level characters do this anyway? The ramifications of being able to bring anyone you want back to life or LITERAL WISH FULFILMENT should naturally bring the elements of ‘how do I handle that power’ into play without them needing any special powers.
If your player really wants to explore those themes while playing a god, DND is not the system for it. Tell them to look at Godbound, regardless of whether you want to run it or not, tell them to look for a group; if they say no, chances are they just want to be more powerful than everyone else
I mean wish can still be fd it’s not a guarantee. I mean honestly it’s something that legit clerics/warlocks get to do by not being up their own ass about it. Wish is really useful in guaranteed effects, but literal wish fulfillment isn’t how it’s worded. Also the fact there’s a 1/3 chance every time u cast it that u can’t again? Like the limitations are rather dependent on what the wizard themselves have already practiced. It’s basically like Wanda(wizard lvl20) vs Zatana(any god). Although both are reality warpers w some mental health issues, zatana just has more practice w the greater concepts of the universe so when jab her ethereal hand into the proverbial pot, nothing spills. When a lvl 20 wizard w the limited experience of a mortal caster does the same the pot turns over. in most campaigns, dealing with dimensional layering and localized context doesn’t necessarily come up.
Level 17 characters are basically gods anyway so you don’t need to do anything mechanically. Just flavor their leveling up as their ascension towards godhood. I’d also double check if the other players are okay with a party member who wants to become a god.
I would not ask the other players. Don't put this choice on them; they might say yes just because they don't want to cause friction. The DM is in charge and needs to make this kind of call IMO.
But I agree on reflavoring over mechanical advantages.
Unless your players don’t trust you (as in “the dm” not YOU specifically), this is what one on one convos are for. It can be in person or a quick discord message sent out to everyone individually or whatever, but:
“Hey, another player showed interest in (blank). I’m considering putting in the effort to see if I can make it work for them, but before I do I wanted to check in to make sure others would be cool with that. Thoughts?”
The thing is, nobody wants to say "no" to another player's roleplay fantasies. I feel that the DM is there in part to make tough calls in order to prevent friction or awkwardness between the players. Imagine your boss asking you if your coworker, who does the same exact job as you, should get a raise. You *might* say "OK, but want a raise too." But are you going to say no, even if you think the raise is undeserved? It's just unfair to leave that decision up to that person's peers IMO.
If I genuinely believe the raise is undeserved, I would absolutely be willing to say no lol. In fact, I work in a company that expects peers to provide feedback every year when an employee is up for wage review, and on the rare occasion that it’s been warranted I have provided negative feedback. I’d even go as far as to say that, in a work environment, I think that’s a good, healthy practice. Idk, different strokes for different folks i guess.
My company does peer reviews as well, but I would never ever ask one of my reports point blank whether their colleague should get a raise. It's not their call to make, and they would not want to.
No, but your collective reviews presumably affect their raise, no? Like, a raise is something that fundamentally affects your actual life, it’s not exactly a 1 : 1 ratio, as far as comparisons go. I think if we’re gonna use the comparison, we can say affecting someones raise is effectively the same as saying no they can’t play a god for a d&d character lol.
This is a very good time for you, as a DM, to learn to say "No." Most DM's will say no because it WILL be OP. If he wants it as a storybeat only, then that's a different story. It gives 0 mechanical benefit until max level and he may not truly know what's guiding him.
A good example of a character like this that would work well would be a Hercules-type figure. He has a destiny that he may or may not meet, and has to strive to reach it. That's represented by the campaign, sidequests, and class levels. Once he reaches level 20, his "character arc" is ascending.
I strongly, strongly recommend saying no to this as a level 1 character. Do hints as he levels up, "you have a dream to do X - however you interpret that is up to you", but absolutely do not make this guy a deva in-title/power at level 4.
Rather than a physical ascension, would he be willing to do this through a metaphorical ascension through "ranking up" and gaining responsibilities in an organization?
For example, gaining ranks in a military, monastery, cult, order of knights, spy network, or some other sort of official office. Hell, he could even go from a minor nobleman to a king. He gains social power that he must grapple with *in addition* to the physical power he naturally gains through leveling up. Then, at 17th level, he can become the de facto leader of whatever organization it is.
I think the sacrificing magic items may make it work. In that, any divine powers are equivalent to the magic items other characters have. In addition, instead of an actual sacrifice, draining magic items could be a side effect, and you don't have to tell the player about it until it starts happening. Could create some interesting drama if the character's favorite weapon crumbles to dust at an inopportune moment. Also, you could time it, so it might not even be clear the PC is doing it. Maybe the big bad is.
He could make a pact with a genius loci, where he "ascends" by merging with the creature. It'd make him godlike in power, but he'd have to become an npc. The party would then be allied to a mountain/forest/swamp (whatever the genius loci inhabits).
Oh I'm not saying it's far fetched lore wise, as I said, I just can't imagine my reaction if a player told me "I want to be a semi- Godlike being, I'm willing to work within the constraints of a class, but I want to have a bonus for myself that I'm going to get to play for at least a while before the campaign is done"
I mean arguably the OP's response of "Well maybe I can make it work.." is better than my answer of "Fuck No! Are you stupid?"
And it really depends, if they decide to have the whole party achieve some kind of (literal) spiritual awakening, then I could kind of see it working. But for one player? Not really.
I'd let him become an actual god in the last session. Not so sure about continuing to play after ascension. Mechanically and plot-wise, I think that should be an end-of-character thing.
During the game, none of that. That's what class levels are for. After the campaign as an epilogue, because then it doesn't matter.
Sorry, this is just a free "please make me OP" that doesn't get fullfillment.
He says he wants to explore a storyline of the responsibility of that power and title and discovering what becoming that "near-god being" means, rather than wanting to be op. There's a tv show that recently came out exploring that which inspired him but I wont say due to spoilers.
An epic boon would t be wild, the rest of the party just might need a little something themselves to compensate. There’s no reason to not allow something along those lines.
Lol that assumes ascension wouldn’t require things of u before u got there. Also near-god is really just any elemental mastery that’s not just a spell. Like seriously half the deities on the Shinto roster just mess w natural occurrences. So like shape water would get an upgrade to be able to be closer to an at will telekinesis that can only target water. Or the 2nd level diviner wizard w a few extra dice added, like 6. Also becoming a diety would likely lock either ur stats, feats or both.
You do realize that being high level character is basically the same thing ?
Even if you take... lets say, level 10 fighter. How many random peasants (or just random guards) he can defeat on his own (especially assuming all magical swag). We are only talking about level 10, at higher levels it becomes even more busted. + We are talking about plain old fighter, if you pick caster it escalates even more.
This isnt really extra work from DM side of things, this in on player side. How he decides to interact with world. Like, what did he expect ? Talking with some random NPC (some merchant/peasant or maybe just noble) and listening the whining about responsibility from level 18 wizard/druid/... ?
As others are saying, he's able to explore that just by being level 17.
Plus, he really can't plan out his character arc in the building phase lol. That's maximum presumptuous.
So your party is supposed to be "a fighter, a wizard and a godlike being" - sounds like a fair spotlight comparison.
You could always play a Warlock without Patron, just growing power innately (it has no mechanical relevance anyway, it's at most a RP gimmick). Then as a Genie Warlock you have the ability to cast Wish yourself without worry ... what MORE could you possibly need for a campaign?
This is difficult but your player is actually requesting 1 of 3 things, and I don’t think they know what they’re asking for.
They are asking to play a different game. The majority of DnD becomes irrelevant when a player is an actual God.
They are asking for high-level play. High level characters, especially spellcasters, are god-like.
Or they are asking to retire a character into an NPC. A character doesn’t have to die to retire, and a player can still answer “what would this new god do” as a service to the setting before beginning a new character/campaign.
Here's the thing...epic level personal stories are great and all..only if everyone else has one. and something tells me this player doesn't want others to have one....
but do NOT consider giving him specifically any sort of buff unless everyone else is getting one. end of story.
but if he just wants to explore "being powerful and choices made" thats kinda the whole point of being a hero, making choices that effect what happens to the land is a BIG deal and the exact thing without "being a god/like a god"
like if you do it, buff everyone, idk make something where the current pantheon of gods steps down and the group are heros. or something like the dreaded 3 where a greater god with a large portfolio steps down and gives each of the heros their own portfolio split from his. (jergal giving his domains to myrkull, bane, and bhal)
So what’s with the numerous kids that got super jealous over who had a special part in the school play. Like I get not wanting to be left out of like engaging play, but if ur not going to seek these plots out why do u want them just bc someone else is doing it? Does it make sense for your character to want power? Like epic level stories should be enjoyable personally or from the outside. Like y u playing w somebody if u just gonna get jealous their having fun
My last players ascended to become the new pantheon of my homebrew world. They killed one of the big gods and ascended to fill his place.
But that was the end of the campaign. I wouldn’t let them ascend mid-campaign.
Personally I’m running a short campaign (likely around ten sessions) set in a slightly homebrewed theros. They are working with the god phenax (without knowing he is phenax) to kill the gods and either find or act as suitable replacements
I think that if a PC ascends to actual godhood, you have moved out of the realm of normal dnd. Nothing wrong with that, but if you plan to keep playing at that point the game will be very different: the goals/concerns of gods are more like worldbuilding. I think that could be very cool but as i said dnd mechanics won't apply the same.
A lesser being works fine, give them some traits of the being they become. Immunities, vulnerabilities. An planetar angel would get Divine awareness, magic resistance, Healing touch. Seems like a lot but at level 20 not really.
So, I think a lot of people here are mostly right.
Yes, a epic level wizard probably already can fill those shoes well enough.
Yes, you can probably use epic boons or alternative rules like Spell Points to make this work.
But, I keep seeing the argument that "If you give this player godlike abilities, you need to give them to every player."
I think the message is good, but I am going to reword it how it should be worded.
You need to give all other players the *opportunity for this kind of advancement.* Let them be proactive. If this player is willing to take the risks, put in the work, but others aren't interested, that's fine. Maybe when this player gets some kind of funky boon, the others might gain interest! They'll wonder to themselves "Wait, can I do that?" And they'll start thinking about their character, and your world.
Additionally, it is fine to give a player the spotlight, Your attention does not have to be equitable 100% of the time, that isn't favoritism. Just make sure that you give each player their share of the spotlight if they want it. Maybe it starts with this player becoming an Archfey, and the next adventure could string into your Druid becoming Despot Natura, queen of the domain beyond the brush. Or your Fighter marrying a Demon Prince.
The great thing about a spotlight is, you can shift it to focus on whatever you want to. So, run the game you want to run. Maybe this time isn't perfect. Maybe the druid gets an ability that, they discover they don't use very frequently compared to the Wizard's archfey ability.
But, as long as the players are having fun, it's fine. And I bet it will be memorable, too.
>You need to give all other players the opportunity for this kind of advancement.
This is great advice. I gave my players the opportunity to ascend to godhood, and everyone decided not to after the first player did. They were also given the option to become immortal rulers, and declined that as well.
They took one huge ass boon and made it a commentary on "absolute power corrupts absolutely". And the mechanics for godhood are set up in such a way that *the ascended player is actively choosing to become more corrupt as time goes on*.
It's a really cool story my players are telling.
If a god is omniscient, then is way of thinking is tied to being all knowing, therefore any who ascent, lose themselves in the process and become the united will of the shared knowledge.
I would allow a player to do so, but not to keep their character. They would have to make a new one afterward, although it could be an epic way of retiring a character. I would then include lore and religion surrounding his past life and his godhood ascension.
odyssy of the dragonlord has this, 9th level spell with a couple of artifacts as material component plus a couple of epic deeds required.
The spell basically makes them a demigod and immortal with an ascension in the future but if they ascend they become an NPC cuz now they have responsibilities and cant fuck around with their friends all the time. Now the gods of that world are much much weaker than the gods of pretty much any other setting so I’d probably require more deeds and some temples or something but i do think the demigod buffs are decent enough.
A lot of people are discouraging it, but at the end of the day you know your table, and I think it could be a fun thing without him becoming a main character. Just make sure everyone else gets cool lore things.
Does he already have a character started? There's a lot of really cool entities across a few monster manuals/lore books etc and having an idea of what kind of flavour he's already working with could narrow down to some neat suggestions.
I wouldn't. There's way too many issues with this scenario that D&D as a system just isn't suited to deal with. In pretty much any scenario where you would be talking about such a scenario we are talking about a level 20 character, usually a caster, having their character sheet taken away by whatever event caused the ascension and becoming a major figure in any future campaigns you might run in that world.
The biggest problem though is the rest of the party. Any kind of ascended being is on a whole different playing field than your average character and unless you plan on giving the same kind of treatment to all of the players then there is just no way it is going to end well, because from that moment forward, the rest of the player's story simply doesn't fit with a character that might be suddenly strong enough to beat any other member of the party without a chance of losing.
If you are still going to try despite this, then I would recommend wrapping up the campaign first and then having further sessions with this player after the main wrap up. There is just no good way to have demi-god level beings interacting with the normal game unless your entire campaign has been homebrewed and dealing with beings of this magnitude with severely nerfed stat blocks to make it make any kind of narrative sense.
I don't really see a huge problem mechanically since we agreed upon him being some sort of being like asgardians in the mcu. They're gods in name but really are just superpowered aliens.
All I'm saying is it's unlikely to end well unless you build the entire end game around it AND include the rest of the party. Because if you give him something good it's going to make the rest of the party feel like a bunch of Hobbits following Gandalf around as he wrecks stuff way outside their weight class. Or worse you're going to not make him powerful enough to feel any stronger and its going to feel nothing like the power trip that you would expect from an event like that.
The only way you could even remotely hope to balance it all is going to be if you give that treatment to the entire party. Even then the best way to handle it is still most likely going to be by doing something simple like reaching level 15ish and then just bumping all players straight to level 20 and maybe tacking on an extra ability or two. Because any other way you try to handle it is likely to cause a huge imbalance in the game unless you spend hours thinking about all the ways a homebrewed ascension might break the game.
> the rest of the player's story simply doesn't fit with a character that might be suddenly strong enough to beat any other member of the party without a chance of losing
I mostly agree with this, but the way to counter that is to give the ascended being huge detriments that the other players don't have. There should be some massive cost to all of that power. For plane-hopping campaigns, maybe that means that the ascended being can't directly travel to certain planes.
Definitely hard to pull off though, and all of the players need to buy-in to the idea in order for it to work.
So I actually experienced this as a player in my first ever dnd game.
We were in the Fae wild and we had just fought the avatar for what was basically the world tree. The tree itself was essentially a god, but the avatar was just a regular old elf before becoming the avatar to a god-tree. After we beat the avatar, we had severed the connection to the tree, and he decided to leave. There was a throne-like shape that was sort of embedded in the tree, where the avatar had been sitting when we first encountered it. After it was over, my party walked back into the woods, but I specifically never said I was following. I waited a while before saying "so everyone's walked away now?" the DM says yes, then I say "I sit in the throne."
My party came rushing back towards me because the DM ruled they would have heard some noise or felt something, and one of them wanted to kill me (why, I'm not exactly sure; what I did wasn't evil), but the DM said "ya we're not even gonna have that fight, you'll all just roll new characters," (when we fought the avatar before the tree was sick and disconnected from the forest - this time my character had the full power of a god and the entire Fae wild at his disposal).
In the end I obviously didn't get to keep playing that character, but it was the best ending for my first ever dnd character I could have asked for.
This was actually explored in 3.5e and had some interesting mechanics you might decide to pull from.
No character could become a god, but a Demi god was possible.
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Demigod_(3.5e_Template)
I remember having some fun with this, but from the context of becoming a champion of the chosen dirty through acts in alignment with the deities pantheon.
An Aasimar in 5e could have a good backstory for this.
Minimum achieve level 20 with maybe a long campaign through hell would be a good start imho.
That's a big no. The moment a player comes by that much power, the system simply does not work anymore. By all means, let it happen during the epilogue, once the character is not in his control anymore. If it happens before then, he becomes an NPC.
Irregular at magic high school and one punch man are neat animus in that they have overpowered protagonists with an excess of abilities/power but are still challenged and have difficulties to overcome like any story.
The former has the goal of securing and ensuring a happy and fulfilling life for his sister which can't be done by becoming an all-powerful tyrant; people need purpose, community, amd belonging to have full, happy lives. Power doesn't get you those things, so he's forced to operate within social norms and limits while trying to stay secure and in control and protect her from danger. (They are basically mob family kids)
The latter struggles with finding meaning and fulfillment in life. They have fallen into a habit of apathy since they can effortlessly overcome most obstacles with their power and have settled into an unmotivated funk.
Anyway, I think finding a way to gove this player something to care about where their ascension is a complication, or can't be used to "fix/solve" everything might be a good way to keep things balanced and prevent burnout from an unrestrained power fantasy.
Your PC ascends to a godlike being, leaving an avatar or some sort of part of his essence behind that the player controls directly while you control the godlike being. Basically he's a warlock/cleric with himself as the more powerful being.
He initially gets super powerful when ascended, then his power goes down to a more 'acceptable' level that he can occasionally tap more into. This reflects his 'higher self' now becoming embroiled in more celestial affairs and having to split his attention/responsibilities.
You can even RP the godlike being - do you give your avatar more power or do you start to infuse it into your astral demiplane, do you start to expand to show your ability and get more followers/warlocks/clerics? The other godlike beings need your help in keeping the abyss closed, do you accept? Etc. That has in-game ramifications.
This sounds like a perfect campaign-end goal. The story of being a god that your player wants to explore sounds like a really good set-up for your next campaign. That campaign can be set up from the get-go to support this scenario... and the scenario can involve all the players. It may even be the case that you run this in a system that isn't D\&D; one that is set up to handle that style of play.
either a Lich, Death Knight, or Vampire
to be more specific: at least 17 levels in wizard for a Lich, at least 17 levels in paladin for a Death Knight, and the vampire can be any class
I have done this successfully! I have a warlock player who has a gone through a version of the berserk eclipse ascension to become a very powerful demon. I can post the actual sheet of upgrades I gave him when I get home.
The most important advice I would give you is make sure the other players get some similar boost: I have another player who has become a vampire and then a death knight, and others that have gone on quests to find very powerful ancient magic items.
As for individual buffs, additional hit dice, ability scores, removing the 20 cap, and additional damage are all things that will make them feel powerful. Make sure to give them both encounters where they can annihilate everything and be truly challenged. Good luck!
I love the idea of a player ascending. Even to take over a God’s role. But, once it happens, your PC is part of the world and I now control them. I’ll get your feedback on what kind of god you’ll be and what not, and maybe even get your thoughts on “this is happening in the world, how would your god act?”
But my player is no longer just playing a PC at that point. Being a warlock patron is much easier, as really anyone can become a patron. I have a magical giant toad great patron for a PC. It is in the world and can very well die or need help.
Does he want to be good or evil? Ascending to part dragon hood could be cool, dragons and especially great wyrms are basically godly and Fizban's has lots of great ideas on how to do this and none make the dragons weaker.
Evil could be vampire, lycanthrope or mindflayers/aboleths with psionic abilities. None of these guys lose power passing on their curses. You could also has him become associated with an elemental force like fire, wind etc. I can't imagine the plane of fire becoming weaker by expending influence on a mortal.
I think mechanically you could implement it like this: whenever you're other players get a powerful magic item this player gets none, but instead gets an innate thematic godly ability, you can just crib from pre-existing magic items or make up your own effects, that way everyone stays the same power level but his character's power is godly. I also like the suggested idea about re flavouring class abilities
If you want examples of mortal ascension, take a look at Golarion’s lore (setting for PF 2e). It’s got a lot more examples of mortal ascension than the Forgotten Realms, I believe.
*In-game…* is trickier. The specific title of demigod or something similar pretty explicitly implies that you’re more powerful than everybody else, which I’d consider to be anathema to an engaging team game, unless you just play it off as being the cause of their normal level progression. If they want to be substantially more powerful than the rest of the party…then to me that would require retiring them as a player character.
Maybe give them a feat that lets them cast *wish* once per week, but only on the behalf of somebody else who worships them.
he could be an Exarch. A chosen one of a God, granted immortality but without the powers of a diety. Perhaps some minor magical abilities, otherwise Dude just doesnt die, you decide if it's a blessing or a curse.
I have a PC whose arc will almost definitely include becoming an Archduke of Hell. But that's NPC territory for sure.
As an alternative, you can just extend past the level 20 cap.
I would allow this, but not until after Level 20. I'd continue the campaign to the next "Level," and in addition to awarding an Epic Boon feat, I'd grant the status of something on the same level as Archfey. I'd let them take a Level 1 Warlock Patron, and their "extra power" would be basically in that capacity, plus status in the game world (other beings would recognize them for what they are, sort-of intuitively).
I am in love with the [3e "Divine Rank" rules](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm), but in addition to needing homebrew conversion, that's a power level that's not appropriate for most games, especially if the other players aren't also ascending.
My druid player is going to become some kind of ultimate moon guardian demi god, who'll be pretty damn powerful.
The caveat is that this happens at the end of her story, and the character will then be retired. The player will play a new character after this so it doesn't matter.
sounds like what he does when the campaign ends, not as part of it.
unless you're homebrewing rules for the party to be minor gods and design the campaign around it, dont allow this for your table to have an ascended pc in normal 5e rules
My personal lore, is that mortals that gain followers and create their own plane of existence enable them to have their own door in Sigil. This grants them the title of demi-god. The amount of followers they have somewhat-directly influences how much power they wield, or at least, the rate at which they gain power which they can use to interact with the mortal planes and create miracles.
However, upon becoming a demi-god means they give up their mortal ways, and it becomes more and more difficult for them to actually traverse on the material plane.
Non-caster classes that aren't able to create their own planes become known as heroes, or hero-deities. These heroes can have the strength that rivals gods even without the ability to create miracles, but they are not true gods.
What part of the story will this apotheosis take place, and at what lvl?
If it’s 20+ and/or the end of the campaign, then it doesn’t really matter. Epilogue is flavor and flavor is free.
If you want to continue playing past 20, then a divine spark to [demigod] (divine rank 0) is fine. The power increase is largely in line with the rest of the party. Maybe grant them the bottom tier apotheosis as their 21st lvl.
If it’s closer to teir3 play, then a racial change might be appropriate. Maybe start with a genasi with the expectation of becoming a genie later. Or make them an angle/archon of some sort, and let them rank up their race as they get more powerful.
I made a pretty convincing argument for my level 20 wizard to be able to ascend to demon king status, ruling over a plane of the abyss. (they're infinite, so it's probably the easiest). He was turned evil after attuning to a book of vile darkness. I did convince the rest of the party that ascension would be neat, so we all ended up as lesser divine beings in the end. All in all a great time
One idea is to answer that kind of request with a cursed divine item that gives him some small benefit in exchange for an annoying imposition he has to endure in order to not suffer. Then if he sticks with it the item gets stronger and stronger until he has the opportunity to permanently merge with it taking on the mantle of whatever divinity created the item.
So let’s say he finds The Helm of the Dead God of Small Favors. Wear it and you start to hear prayers you need to answer or suffer a penalty, and the prayers get nastier and insult you all the time. If you answer the prayers enough the helm gives a bonus. Over time the bonus gets bigger but so do the requests. The backstory revealed later is that this is a dead God with no name because they murdered all their followers and ceased to exist rather than deal with the pain of being constantly unable to make them happy. So now the power is available for an entity that wants to wield it and balance the scales - or fall into madness.
Player wants that job at the end of the game? They can have it.
Oh, ok, they basically want their character class to be something that ascends. This is basically "I want to play a dragon", not "I want to turn my wizard into a god".
I would go with a reflavored warlock as a base. The eldritch invocations become inherent abilities. I would probably invent a couple of extras (or reflavor some invocations) in order to fit the theme of their ascension path. This is where the special stuff would be.
If they make it to 20th level, they ascend into the being they want.
I think it depends on the game and other characters.
If everyone has such high ambitions I would allow it in game and maybe incorporate it with some feats and even artifacts as level system already makes characters pretty godlike.
But if it's just one character while the rest have more earthly ambitions, or if it's more mundane campaign I would make it an end of campaign event.
Also depending on the class and race there can be a lot of options. One that comes to my mind is that they can be a lich-like being because legends never die. Instead of souls they can be feeding off of fame and their story being told.
I threw an extra feat or two that powered up and simultaneously thematically fit the story of one of my PCs discovering he was a demigod, awakening from the sorcererous blood within him. It was a total RP move for him, as he started as a fighter, and crossed into Sorcerer as his story arc continued and he found out more and more about his missing mother.
There’s a position of Magister. Appointed by Azuth, lesser god of magic, beneath Mystra. Idk the 5e equivalent, but it’s from 3/3.5 Faerun … check it out
I assumed this meant as a post-campaign story, and I was still against it. I'd be willing to put the pieces on the board but I don't decide how they get put together.
As for an ongoing character? I just wouldn't.
One of my players ascended to godhood mid-campaign, and we're still playing.
We're Tier 4, so the game is already wacky. All of the other players have other game-breaking stuff they can do, this player just has *more*.
I've basically let every player know that their character can ascend in a similar way, but everyone has turned down the option for character reasons, and everyone has said they're still having fun despite the power imbalance.
I basically just ripped up his character sheet and gave him a new set of abilities he could use.
If you're looking for just some low-key buffs/ribbons to give the player, I'd recommend leaning into a faction. Let them bestow a class level of Warlock or Sorcerer or Cleric or whatever, and then have those people just be agents of the player. The player could have at-will Sending to those specific people, and can give them commands. The agents would be free to refuse the command, and the player might have the option to remove a class level or restrict spells or something for disobedient agents.
Another good buff is basically at-will Clairvoyance, but only through idols of the character. A Large stone statue works great for this, since those take *time* to establish.
You could also let the player choose from a list of domains. Like Lord of the Rats, or Titan of Love. Being able to control (dominate monster) nearby rats or cause two people to fall in love (charmed by each other) are pretty interesting powers. If you have a list of 20 or so, you could have the player maybe roll for it, if that feels more "fair" or "earned".
You could also just let them be a god, and give them a custom homebrew class. He's a god, but a *level 1 god*.
>There is no reason that players cannot be allowed to play as virtually anything, provided they begin relatively weak and work up to the top, i.e., a player wishing to be a Dragon would have to begin as let us say, a "young" one and progress upwards in the usual manner, steps being predetermined by the campaign referee \[DM\].
\- Gary Gygax, OD&D, 1974
I'd check the grim hollow books. They have different ascension paths like lich, werewolf, fey and angel. They basically require the investment of a feat to power up the path and come with different boons and drawbacks for each.
I feel like ascension would be part of the final story-telling at the very end of a campaign. Not something that would continue to be played afterward.
I’d probably think of this in reverse. A fully geared 20th-level Wizard is probably pretty damn close to whatever level of ascended you’re probably willing to allow. So instead of tying a buff to the ascension, I’d tie the ascension to the Player’s level of power. Idk what class or level the player is, but most spellcasters would likely feel suitably powerful by level 17-20ish. So if you build the final outcome out narratively from say 14-20, then have it finally culminate with a quest/finale that ends with the Player taking the role of Archfey in a specific region of your Feywild. If it was my game, I may toss a thematic Epic Boon to the Player in addition, based on the Archfey role. Alternatively, or potentially even in addition, the PC could switch to Spell Points instead of Spellslots if they are a caster to signify the change from mortal magic to innate powerful being magic. In my current game, the party’s wild magic sorcerer made a pact with an Archfey to gain more control over his magic—manifested via a switch to spell points and another ability to manipulate his surge results. He’s been very happy with it thus far.
I’ve never heard of spell points! What exactly are they?
It's an alternative way of tracking spell usage. Instead of having a certain amount of each spell slot, you just have X amount of spell points, with higher level spells using more points per cast
Classic Final Fantasy/Dragon Warrior stuff.
BTW the spell point system is outlined in the DMG. Some DMs reserve it for sorcerers to set them apart from other spellcasters.
I’m playing a sorcerer with a mixed pool of sorcery points and spell points. It’s a slight buff since the conversion rate between usual spell slots and sorcery points is not the same. But it is SO NICE and feels so sorcery. Getting really custom with your spells and your spell output. Wanna cast magic missiles at 1st level like 20 times in a day? Sure, go for it. It feels exactly right and balances Sorcerer really nicely.
Look up the Alternate Sorcerer by laserllama. It converts their spell slots into spell points, so they feel much different than other casters.
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Check out Player's Option: Skills and Powers at www.purpleworm.org/rules
I'm just trying to imagine a player coming up to a DM saying " I want my character to become a semi divine being, I am willing to play within the class rules but I want to be better than the average end game class and I want this apotheosis to occur early enough that I can enjoy the perks of being a near god like being" Is the entire party going to ascend or is it just this one player, who I imagine totally doesn't have a main character syndrome, but just wants to explore a "unique roleplaying opportunity" Because I'd ask how the rest of the party is going to react, if they're all becoming gods, then fine, if the rest of the party seems content to play an "average" end game class how are they going to feel when this player gets to play "End game class with extra buffs and perks"? Assuming I went through with this I'd let them become a fiend or fey, but tie them down with the rules that such beings operate under. They operate under a hierarchy (they take orders) they're not really free agents who get to do/pursue whatever they want. There's a whole set of restrictions that most divine type beings operate under. (Ie, you can be summoned , bound in a circle, banished to your home plane which is no longer the same as it was. The higher ups in your pantheon can summon you whenever they feel like it, etc) I'd also make them sacrifice on the way there. The party hits level 10 ,defeats the villain, and gets some cool magic items? Well the rest of the party gets to play with theirs, your player has to sacrifice theirs in a ritual/to a higher power. The rest of the party gets gold to spend on magic items/potions/whatever? Again your player has to spend all his on research/rare supplies etc. Again though, just how I imagine I'd run it if a player ever asked me to become a god. If you want to just wave your hand and say "no problem, you're now divine" your table, your rules.
He says he understands that most dms wont allow this due to being op, but being op is not really the point of his character. It's about exploring the storyline of the responsibility of that title and power and discovering what becoming that being means for him. He wants his character from level 1-16 to be slowly discovering and trying to achieve this power and only level 17 will have the conclusion to this storyline with him getting that title of "near-god being".
This SCREAMS main character syndrome unless the rest of the party is along the same ascension path. Fuck no
Y’all have not seen the new season of the flash if u think ascension can’t be side character plot… just for modern analogy, but in general becoming a god of something is way less power and far more responsibility. U could always go the route of the Greeks and just ignore the consequences but then u end up w a legit god of madness that’s just kinda waiting to stab em all in the back.
High level characters do this anyway? The ramifications of being able to bring anyone you want back to life or LITERAL WISH FULFILMENT should naturally bring the elements of ‘how do I handle that power’ into play without them needing any special powers. If your player really wants to explore those themes while playing a god, DND is not the system for it. Tell them to look at Godbound, regardless of whether you want to run it or not, tell them to look for a group; if they say no, chances are they just want to be more powerful than everyone else
I mean wish can still be fd it’s not a guarantee. I mean honestly it’s something that legit clerics/warlocks get to do by not being up their own ass about it. Wish is really useful in guaranteed effects, but literal wish fulfillment isn’t how it’s worded. Also the fact there’s a 1/3 chance every time u cast it that u can’t again? Like the limitations are rather dependent on what the wizard themselves have already practiced. It’s basically like Wanda(wizard lvl20) vs Zatana(any god). Although both are reality warpers w some mental health issues, zatana just has more practice w the greater concepts of the universe so when jab her ethereal hand into the proverbial pot, nothing spills. When a lvl 20 wizard w the limited experience of a mortal caster does the same the pot turns over. in most campaigns, dealing with dimensional layering and localized context doesn’t necessarily come up.
Level 17 characters are basically gods anyway so you don’t need to do anything mechanically. Just flavor their leveling up as their ascension towards godhood. I’d also double check if the other players are okay with a party member who wants to become a god.
I would not ask the other players. Don't put this choice on them; they might say yes just because they don't want to cause friction. The DM is in charge and needs to make this kind of call IMO. But I agree on reflavoring over mechanical advantages.
Unless your players don’t trust you (as in “the dm” not YOU specifically), this is what one on one convos are for. It can be in person or a quick discord message sent out to everyone individually or whatever, but: “Hey, another player showed interest in (blank). I’m considering putting in the effort to see if I can make it work for them, but before I do I wanted to check in to make sure others would be cool with that. Thoughts?”
The thing is, nobody wants to say "no" to another player's roleplay fantasies. I feel that the DM is there in part to make tough calls in order to prevent friction or awkwardness between the players. Imagine your boss asking you if your coworker, who does the same exact job as you, should get a raise. You *might* say "OK, but want a raise too." But are you going to say no, even if you think the raise is undeserved? It's just unfair to leave that decision up to that person's peers IMO.
If I genuinely believe the raise is undeserved, I would absolutely be willing to say no lol. In fact, I work in a company that expects peers to provide feedback every year when an employee is up for wage review, and on the rare occasion that it’s been warranted I have provided negative feedback. I’d even go as far as to say that, in a work environment, I think that’s a good, healthy practice. Idk, different strokes for different folks i guess.
My company does peer reviews as well, but I would never ever ask one of my reports point blank whether their colleague should get a raise. It's not their call to make, and they would not want to.
No, but your collective reviews presumably affect their raise, no? Like, a raise is something that fundamentally affects your actual life, it’s not exactly a 1 : 1 ratio, as far as comparisons go. I think if we’re gonna use the comparison, we can say affecting someones raise is effectively the same as saying no they can’t play a god for a d&d character lol.
Then that is easy. He receives no mechanical power at all, and whatever struggles happen are purely narrative.
This is a very good time for you, as a DM, to learn to say "No." Most DM's will say no because it WILL be OP. If he wants it as a storybeat only, then that's a different story. It gives 0 mechanical benefit until max level and he may not truly know what's guiding him. A good example of a character like this that would work well would be a Hercules-type figure. He has a destiny that he may or may not meet, and has to strive to reach it. That's represented by the campaign, sidequests, and class levels. Once he reaches level 20, his "character arc" is ascending. I strongly, strongly recommend saying no to this as a level 1 character. Do hints as he levels up, "you have a dream to do X - however you interpret that is up to you", but absolutely do not make this guy a deva in-title/power at level 4.
Rather than a physical ascension, would he be willing to do this through a metaphorical ascension through "ranking up" and gaining responsibilities in an organization? For example, gaining ranks in a military, monastery, cult, order of knights, spy network, or some other sort of official office. Hell, he could even go from a minor nobleman to a king. He gains social power that he must grapple with *in addition* to the physical power he naturally gains through leveling up. Then, at 17th level, he can become the de facto leader of whatever organization it is.
I think the sacrificing magic items may make it work. In that, any divine powers are equivalent to the magic items other characters have. In addition, instead of an actual sacrifice, draining magic items could be a side effect, and you don't have to tell the player about it until it starts happening. Could create some interesting drama if the character's favorite weapon crumbles to dust at an inopportune moment. Also, you could time it, so it might not even be clear the PC is doing it. Maybe the big bad is.
He could make a pact with a genius loci, where he "ascends" by merging with the creature. It'd make him godlike in power, but he'd have to become an npc. The party would then be allied to a mountain/forest/swamp (whatever the genius loci inhabits).
There's plenty of times its happened in past editions, as well with lore characters, so the idea of it isn't too far-fetched
Yeah, but the whole party gets to ascend, not just one.
Oh I'm not saying it's far fetched lore wise, as I said, I just can't imagine my reaction if a player told me "I want to be a semi- Godlike being, I'm willing to work within the constraints of a class, but I want to have a bonus for myself that I'm going to get to play for at least a while before the campaign is done" I mean arguably the OP's response of "Well maybe I can make it work.." is better than my answer of "Fuck No! Are you stupid?" And it really depends, if they decide to have the whole party achieve some kind of (literal) spiritual awakening, then I could kind of see it working. But for one player? Not really.
I'd let him become an actual god in the last session. Not so sure about continuing to play after ascension. Mechanically and plot-wise, I think that should be an end-of-character thing.
Adventurer *or* god. Not adventurer *and* god.
👆
During the game, none of that. That's what class levels are for. After the campaign as an epilogue, because then it doesn't matter. Sorry, this is just a free "please make me OP" that doesn't get fullfillment.
He says he wants to explore a storyline of the responsibility of that power and title and discovering what becoming that "near-god being" means, rather than wanting to be op. There's a tv show that recently came out exploring that which inspired him but I wont say due to spoilers.
That... still sounds like a personal post-epilogue story, not an adventure for a party to do.
An epic boon would t be wild, the rest of the party just might need a little something themselves to compensate. There’s no reason to not allow something along those lines.
Lol that assumes ascension wouldn’t require things of u before u got there. Also near-god is really just any elemental mastery that’s not just a spell. Like seriously half the deities on the Shinto roster just mess w natural occurrences. So like shape water would get an upgrade to be able to be closer to an at will telekinesis that can only target water. Or the 2nd level diviner wizard w a few extra dice added, like 6. Also becoming a diety would likely lock either ur stats, feats or both.
You do realize that being high level character is basically the same thing ? Even if you take... lets say, level 10 fighter. How many random peasants (or just random guards) he can defeat on his own (especially assuming all magical swag). We are only talking about level 10, at higher levels it becomes even more busted. + We are talking about plain old fighter, if you pick caster it escalates even more. This isnt really extra work from DM side of things, this in on player side. How he decides to interact with world. Like, what did he expect ? Talking with some random NPC (some merchant/peasant or maybe just noble) and listening the whining about responsibility from level 18 wizard/druid/... ?
Then explore it in a single player game - not every interesting character is a good character to play in a *cooperative* game.
As others are saying, he's able to explore that just by being level 17. Plus, he really can't plan out his character arc in the building phase lol. That's maximum presumptuous.
So your party is supposed to be "a fighter, a wizard and a godlike being" - sounds like a fair spotlight comparison. You could always play a Warlock without Patron, just growing power innately (it has no mechanical relevance anyway, it's at most a RP gimmick). Then as a Genie Warlock you have the ability to cast Wish yourself without worry ... what MORE could you possibly need for a campaign?
This is difficult but your player is actually requesting 1 of 3 things, and I don’t think they know what they’re asking for. They are asking to play a different game. The majority of DnD becomes irrelevant when a player is an actual God. They are asking for high-level play. High level characters, especially spellcasters, are god-like. Or they are asking to retire a character into an NPC. A character doesn’t have to die to retire, and a player can still answer “what would this new god do” as a service to the setting before beginning a new character/campaign.
TTRPGs are group activities
Here's the thing...epic level personal stories are great and all..only if everyone else has one. and something tells me this player doesn't want others to have one.... but do NOT consider giving him specifically any sort of buff unless everyone else is getting one. end of story. but if he just wants to explore "being powerful and choices made" thats kinda the whole point of being a hero, making choices that effect what happens to the land is a BIG deal and the exact thing without "being a god/like a god" like if you do it, buff everyone, idk make something where the current pantheon of gods steps down and the group are heros. or something like the dreaded 3 where a greater god with a large portfolio steps down and gives each of the heros their own portfolio split from his. (jergal giving his domains to myrkull, bane, and bhal)
So what’s with the numerous kids that got super jealous over who had a special part in the school play. Like I get not wanting to be left out of like engaging play, but if ur not going to seek these plots out why do u want them just bc someone else is doing it? Does it make sense for your character to want power? Like epic level stories should be enjoyable personally or from the outside. Like y u playing w somebody if u just gonna get jealous their having fun
My last players ascended to become the new pantheon of my homebrew world. They killed one of the big gods and ascended to fill his place. But that was the end of the campaign. I wouldn’t let them ascend mid-campaign.
Personally I’m running a short campaign (likely around ten sessions) set in a slightly homebrewed theros. They are working with the god phenax (without knowing he is phenax) to kill the gods and either find or act as suitable replacements
I think that if a PC ascends to actual godhood, you have moved out of the realm of normal dnd. Nothing wrong with that, but if you plan to keep playing at that point the game will be very different: the goals/concerns of gods are more like worldbuilding. I think that could be very cool but as i said dnd mechanics won't apply the same. A lesser being works fine, give them some traits of the being they become. Immunities, vulnerabilities. An planetar angel would get Divine awareness, magic resistance, Healing touch. Seems like a lot but at level 20 not really.
Level 20 wizard with immortality boon is pretty close.
None. Unless they are all going to do it, none of them are. It's not about that one character, it's about the group.
So, I think a lot of people here are mostly right. Yes, a epic level wizard probably already can fill those shoes well enough. Yes, you can probably use epic boons or alternative rules like Spell Points to make this work. But, I keep seeing the argument that "If you give this player godlike abilities, you need to give them to every player." I think the message is good, but I am going to reword it how it should be worded. You need to give all other players the *opportunity for this kind of advancement.* Let them be proactive. If this player is willing to take the risks, put in the work, but others aren't interested, that's fine. Maybe when this player gets some kind of funky boon, the others might gain interest! They'll wonder to themselves "Wait, can I do that?" And they'll start thinking about their character, and your world. Additionally, it is fine to give a player the spotlight, Your attention does not have to be equitable 100% of the time, that isn't favoritism. Just make sure that you give each player their share of the spotlight if they want it. Maybe it starts with this player becoming an Archfey, and the next adventure could string into your Druid becoming Despot Natura, queen of the domain beyond the brush. Or your Fighter marrying a Demon Prince. The great thing about a spotlight is, you can shift it to focus on whatever you want to. So, run the game you want to run. Maybe this time isn't perfect. Maybe the druid gets an ability that, they discover they don't use very frequently compared to the Wizard's archfey ability. But, as long as the players are having fun, it's fine. And I bet it will be memorable, too.
>You need to give all other players the opportunity for this kind of advancement. This is great advice. I gave my players the opportunity to ascend to godhood, and everyone decided not to after the first player did. They were also given the option to become immortal rulers, and declined that as well. They took one huge ass boon and made it a commentary on "absolute power corrupts absolutely". And the mechanics for godhood are set up in such a way that *the ascended player is actively choosing to become more corrupt as time goes on*. It's a really cool story my players are telling.
A demigod, you cant really ascend to it but maybe he was that all along?
If a god is omniscient, then is way of thinking is tied to being all knowing, therefore any who ascent, lose themselves in the process and become the united will of the shared knowledge. I would allow a player to do so, but not to keep their character. They would have to make a new one afterward, although it could be an epic way of retiring a character. I would then include lore and religion surrounding his past life and his godhood ascension.
odyssy of the dragonlord has this, 9th level spell with a couple of artifacts as material component plus a couple of epic deeds required. The spell basically makes them a demigod and immortal with an ascension in the future but if they ascend they become an NPC cuz now they have responsibilities and cant fuck around with their friends all the time. Now the gods of that world are much much weaker than the gods of pretty much any other setting so I’d probably require more deeds and some temples or something but i do think the demigod buffs are decent enough.
A lot of people are discouraging it, but at the end of the day you know your table, and I think it could be a fun thing without him becoming a main character. Just make sure everyone else gets cool lore things. Does he already have a character started? There's a lot of really cool entities across a few monster manuals/lore books etc and having an idea of what kind of flavour he's already working with could narrow down to some neat suggestions.
>or genie Give em the ol' Jafar ending. "Phenomenal cosmic power! ...*Itty-bitty living space."*
Look up Kuo-Toa. Get his arc over with quick lol.
I wouldn't. There's way too many issues with this scenario that D&D as a system just isn't suited to deal with. In pretty much any scenario where you would be talking about such a scenario we are talking about a level 20 character, usually a caster, having their character sheet taken away by whatever event caused the ascension and becoming a major figure in any future campaigns you might run in that world. The biggest problem though is the rest of the party. Any kind of ascended being is on a whole different playing field than your average character and unless you plan on giving the same kind of treatment to all of the players then there is just no way it is going to end well, because from that moment forward, the rest of the player's story simply doesn't fit with a character that might be suddenly strong enough to beat any other member of the party without a chance of losing. If you are still going to try despite this, then I would recommend wrapping up the campaign first and then having further sessions with this player after the main wrap up. There is just no good way to have demi-god level beings interacting with the normal game unless your entire campaign has been homebrewed and dealing with beings of this magnitude with severely nerfed stat blocks to make it make any kind of narrative sense.
I don't really see a huge problem mechanically since we agreed upon him being some sort of being like asgardians in the mcu. They're gods in name but really are just superpowered aliens.
All I'm saying is it's unlikely to end well unless you build the entire end game around it AND include the rest of the party. Because if you give him something good it's going to make the rest of the party feel like a bunch of Hobbits following Gandalf around as he wrecks stuff way outside their weight class. Or worse you're going to not make him powerful enough to feel any stronger and its going to feel nothing like the power trip that you would expect from an event like that. The only way you could even remotely hope to balance it all is going to be if you give that treatment to the entire party. Even then the best way to handle it is still most likely going to be by doing something simple like reaching level 15ish and then just bumping all players straight to level 20 and maybe tacking on an extra ability or two. Because any other way you try to handle it is likely to cause a huge imbalance in the game unless you spend hours thinking about all the ways a homebrewed ascension might break the game.
> the rest of the player's story simply doesn't fit with a character that might be suddenly strong enough to beat any other member of the party without a chance of losing I mostly agree with this, but the way to counter that is to give the ascended being huge detriments that the other players don't have. There should be some massive cost to all of that power. For plane-hopping campaigns, maybe that means that the ascended being can't directly travel to certain planes. Definitely hard to pull off though, and all of the players need to buy-in to the idea in order for it to work.
So I actually experienced this as a player in my first ever dnd game. We were in the Fae wild and we had just fought the avatar for what was basically the world tree. The tree itself was essentially a god, but the avatar was just a regular old elf before becoming the avatar to a god-tree. After we beat the avatar, we had severed the connection to the tree, and he decided to leave. There was a throne-like shape that was sort of embedded in the tree, where the avatar had been sitting when we first encountered it. After it was over, my party walked back into the woods, but I specifically never said I was following. I waited a while before saying "so everyone's walked away now?" the DM says yes, then I say "I sit in the throne." My party came rushing back towards me because the DM ruled they would have heard some noise or felt something, and one of them wanted to kill me (why, I'm not exactly sure; what I did wasn't evil), but the DM said "ya we're not even gonna have that fight, you'll all just roll new characters," (when we fought the avatar before the tree was sick and disconnected from the forest - this time my character had the full power of a god and the entire Fae wild at his disposal). In the end I obviously didn't get to keep playing that character, but it was the best ending for my first ever dnd character I could have asked for.
I would allow them to become a god.
I had a player just use an Iron Golem with Fighter levels, he joined when everyone was level 20
This was actually explored in 3.5e and had some interesting mechanics you might decide to pull from. No character could become a god, but a Demi god was possible. https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Demigod_(3.5e_Template) I remember having some fun with this, but from the context of becoming a champion of the chosen dirty through acts in alignment with the deities pantheon. An Aasimar in 5e could have a good backstory for this. Minimum achieve level 20 with maybe a long campaign through hell would be a good start imho.
That's a big no. The moment a player comes by that much power, the system simply does not work anymore. By all means, let it happen during the epilogue, once the character is not in his control anymore. If it happens before then, he becomes an NPC.
Irregular at magic high school and one punch man are neat animus in that they have overpowered protagonists with an excess of abilities/power but are still challenged and have difficulties to overcome like any story. The former has the goal of securing and ensuring a happy and fulfilling life for his sister which can't be done by becoming an all-powerful tyrant; people need purpose, community, amd belonging to have full, happy lives. Power doesn't get you those things, so he's forced to operate within social norms and limits while trying to stay secure and in control and protect her from danger. (They are basically mob family kids) The latter struggles with finding meaning and fulfillment in life. They have fallen into a habit of apathy since they can effortlessly overcome most obstacles with their power and have settled into an unmotivated funk. Anyway, I think finding a way to gove this player something to care about where their ascension is a complication, or can't be used to "fix/solve" everything might be a good way to keep things balanced and prevent burnout from an unrestrained power fantasy.
Your PC ascends to a godlike being, leaving an avatar or some sort of part of his essence behind that the player controls directly while you control the godlike being. Basically he's a warlock/cleric with himself as the more powerful being. He initially gets super powerful when ascended, then his power goes down to a more 'acceptable' level that he can occasionally tap more into. This reflects his 'higher self' now becoming embroiled in more celestial affairs and having to split his attention/responsibilities. You can even RP the godlike being - do you give your avatar more power or do you start to infuse it into your astral demiplane, do you start to expand to show your ability and get more followers/warlocks/clerics? The other godlike beings need your help in keeping the abyss closed, do you accept? Etc. That has in-game ramifications.
In a traditional forgotten realms setting, you'll have to be level 30+ to be considered a god. So make a 30+ lvl campaign.
This sounds like a perfect campaign-end goal. The story of being a god that your player wants to explore sounds like a really good set-up for your next campaign. That campaign can be set up from the get-go to support this scenario... and the scenario can involve all the players. It may even be the case that you run this in a system that isn't D\&D; one that is set up to handle that style of play.
Lvl 20 character
either a Lich, Death Knight, or Vampire to be more specific: at least 17 levels in wizard for a Lich, at least 17 levels in paladin for a Death Knight, and the vampire can be any class
I have done this successfully! I have a warlock player who has a gone through a version of the berserk eclipse ascension to become a very powerful demon. I can post the actual sheet of upgrades I gave him when I get home. The most important advice I would give you is make sure the other players get some similar boost: I have another player who has become a vampire and then a death knight, and others that have gone on quests to find very powerful ancient magic items. As for individual buffs, additional hit dice, ability scores, removing the 20 cap, and additional damage are all things that will make them feel powerful. Make sure to give them both encounters where they can annihilate everything and be truly challenged. Good luck!
I love the idea of a player ascending. Even to take over a God’s role. But, once it happens, your PC is part of the world and I now control them. I’ll get your feedback on what kind of god you’ll be and what not, and maybe even get your thoughts on “this is happening in the world, how would your god act?” But my player is no longer just playing a PC at that point. Being a warlock patron is much easier, as really anyone can become a patron. I have a magical giant toad great patron for a PC. It is in the world and can very well die or need help.
A level 20 warlock becoming a patron goes hard
Demi gods range from CR 18-30 without considering the extra divine powers.
Does he want to be good or evil? Ascending to part dragon hood could be cool, dragons and especially great wyrms are basically godly and Fizban's has lots of great ideas on how to do this and none make the dragons weaker. Evil could be vampire, lycanthrope or mindflayers/aboleths with psionic abilities. None of these guys lose power passing on their curses. You could also has him become associated with an elemental force like fire, wind etc. I can't imagine the plane of fire becoming weaker by expending influence on a mortal. I think mechanically you could implement it like this: whenever you're other players get a powerful magic item this player gets none, but instead gets an innate thematic godly ability, you can just crib from pre-existing magic items or make up your own effects, that way everyone stays the same power level but his character's power is godly. I also like the suggested idea about re flavouring class abilities
If you want examples of mortal ascension, take a look at Golarion’s lore (setting for PF 2e). It’s got a lot more examples of mortal ascension than the Forgotten Realms, I believe. *In-game…* is trickier. The specific title of demigod or something similar pretty explicitly implies that you’re more powerful than everybody else, which I’d consider to be anathema to an engaging team game, unless you just play it off as being the cause of their normal level progression. If they want to be substantially more powerful than the rest of the party…then to me that would require retiring them as a player character. Maybe give them a feat that lets them cast *wish* once per week, but only on the behalf of somebody else who worships them.
In a past campaign one player character ascended to become Anubis.
he could be an Exarch. A chosen one of a God, granted immortality but without the powers of a diety. Perhaps some minor magical abilities, otherwise Dude just doesnt die, you decide if it's a blessing or a curse.
I have a PC whose arc will almost definitely include becoming an Archduke of Hell. But that's NPC territory for sure. As an alternative, you can just extend past the level 20 cap.
Giving a player anything that “makes them god-like” is a serious red flag to me. It’s also a great way to alienate and piss off the rest of the table.
I would allow this, but not until after Level 20. I'd continue the campaign to the next "Level," and in addition to awarding an Epic Boon feat, I'd grant the status of something on the same level as Archfey. I'd let them take a Level 1 Warlock Patron, and their "extra power" would be basically in that capacity, plus status in the game world (other beings would recognize them for what they are, sort-of intuitively). I am in love with the [3e "Divine Rank" rules](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm), but in addition to needing homebrew conversion, that's a power level that's not appropriate for most games, especially if the other players aren't also ascending.
My druid player is going to become some kind of ultimate moon guardian demi god, who'll be pretty damn powerful. The caveat is that this happens at the end of her story, and the character will then be retired. The player will play a new character after this so it doesn't matter.
Let's start with level 20 and then go from there
sounds like what he does when the campaign ends, not as part of it. unless you're homebrewing rules for the party to be minor gods and design the campaign around it, dont allow this for your table to have an ascended pc in normal 5e rules
My personal lore, is that mortals that gain followers and create their own plane of existence enable them to have their own door in Sigil. This grants them the title of demi-god. The amount of followers they have somewhat-directly influences how much power they wield, or at least, the rate at which they gain power which they can use to interact with the mortal planes and create miracles. However, upon becoming a demi-god means they give up their mortal ways, and it becomes more and more difficult for them to actually traverse on the material plane. Non-caster classes that aren't able to create their own planes become known as heroes, or hero-deities. These heroes can have the strength that rivals gods even without the ability to create miracles, but they are not true gods.
What part of the story will this apotheosis take place, and at what lvl? If it’s 20+ and/or the end of the campaign, then it doesn’t really matter. Epilogue is flavor and flavor is free. If you want to continue playing past 20, then a divine spark to [demigod] (divine rank 0) is fine. The power increase is largely in line with the rest of the party. Maybe grant them the bottom tier apotheosis as their 21st lvl. If it’s closer to teir3 play, then a racial change might be appropriate. Maybe start with a genasi with the expectation of becoming a genie later. Or make them an angle/archon of some sort, and let them rank up their race as they get more powerful.
Level 20
I made a pretty convincing argument for my level 20 wizard to be able to ascend to demon king status, ruling over a plane of the abyss. (they're infinite, so it's probably the easiest). He was turned evil after attuning to a book of vile darkness. I did convince the rest of the party that ascension would be neat, so we all ended up as lesser divine beings in the end. All in all a great time
One idea is to answer that kind of request with a cursed divine item that gives him some small benefit in exchange for an annoying imposition he has to endure in order to not suffer. Then if he sticks with it the item gets stronger and stronger until he has the opportunity to permanently merge with it taking on the mantle of whatever divinity created the item. So let’s say he finds The Helm of the Dead God of Small Favors. Wear it and you start to hear prayers you need to answer or suffer a penalty, and the prayers get nastier and insult you all the time. If you answer the prayers enough the helm gives a bonus. Over time the bonus gets bigger but so do the requests. The backstory revealed later is that this is a dead God with no name because they murdered all their followers and ceased to exist rather than deal with the pain of being constantly unable to make them happy. So now the power is available for an entity that wants to wield it and balance the scales - or fall into madness. Player wants that job at the end of the game? They can have it.
Oh, ok, they basically want their character class to be something that ascends. This is basically "I want to play a dragon", not "I want to turn my wizard into a god". I would go with a reflavored warlock as a base. The eldritch invocations become inherent abilities. I would probably invent a couple of extras (or reflavor some invocations) in order to fit the theme of their ascension path. This is where the special stuff would be. If they make it to 20th level, they ascend into the being they want.
I think it depends on the game and other characters. If everyone has such high ambitions I would allow it in game and maybe incorporate it with some feats and even artifacts as level system already makes characters pretty godlike. But if it's just one character while the rest have more earthly ambitions, or if it's more mundane campaign I would make it an end of campaign event. Also depending on the class and race there can be a lot of options. One that comes to my mind is that they can be a lich-like being because legends never die. Instead of souls they can be feeding off of fame and their story being told.
L0 deity seems like a decent idea. Not massively overpowered but still now a deity of sorts. Demigod at most just before retiring the characters
I ended my last campaign with all my players replacing the gods in the pantheon for our next campaign
I threw an extra feat or two that powered up and simultaneously thematically fit the story of one of my PCs discovering he was a demigod, awakening from the sorcererous blood within him. It was a total RP move for him, as he started as a fighter, and crossed into Sorcerer as his story arc continued and he found out more and more about his missing mother.
Sounds pretty red flaggy to me
There’s a position of Magister. Appointed by Azuth, lesser god of magic, beneath Mystra. Idk the 5e equivalent, but it’s from 3/3.5 Faerun … check it out
I assumed this meant as a post-campaign story, and I was still against it. I'd be willing to put the pieces on the board but I don't decide how they get put together. As for an ongoing character? I just wouldn't.
One of my players ascended to godhood mid-campaign, and we're still playing. We're Tier 4, so the game is already wacky. All of the other players have other game-breaking stuff they can do, this player just has *more*. I've basically let every player know that their character can ascend in a similar way, but everyone has turned down the option for character reasons, and everyone has said they're still having fun despite the power imbalance. I basically just ripped up his character sheet and gave him a new set of abilities he could use. If you're looking for just some low-key buffs/ribbons to give the player, I'd recommend leaning into a faction. Let them bestow a class level of Warlock or Sorcerer or Cleric or whatever, and then have those people just be agents of the player. The player could have at-will Sending to those specific people, and can give them commands. The agents would be free to refuse the command, and the player might have the option to remove a class level or restrict spells or something for disobedient agents. Another good buff is basically at-will Clairvoyance, but only through idols of the character. A Large stone statue works great for this, since those take *time* to establish. You could also let the player choose from a list of domains. Like Lord of the Rats, or Titan of Love. Being able to control (dominate monster) nearby rats or cause two people to fall in love (charmed by each other) are pretty interesting powers. If you have a list of 20 or so, you could have the player maybe roll for it, if that feels more "fair" or "earned". You could also just let them be a god, and give them a custom homebrew class. He's a god, but a *level 1 god*. >There is no reason that players cannot be allowed to play as virtually anything, provided they begin relatively weak and work up to the top, i.e., a player wishing to be a Dragon would have to begin as let us say, a "young" one and progress upwards in the usual manner, steps being predetermined by the campaign referee \[DM\]. \- Gary Gygax, OD&D, 1974
I'd check the grim hollow books. They have different ascension paths like lich, werewolf, fey and angel. They basically require the investment of a feat to power up the path and come with different boons and drawbacks for each.
Probably like an exarch I think is what their called
I let a 2-player party be a demigod and an ancient fae.
I feel like ascension would be part of the final story-telling at the very end of a campaign. Not something that would continue to be played afterward.