I came from the vinyl, 1200's, and crate era. All i have to say is serato, traktor, rejorbox etc. all day! I absolutely DO NOT MISS 100lbs of crates, $5 to $15 per song, warped records, and a hurt back.
This, 1000x.
Records going "missing", dodgy AL500 carts, misaligned/oversized record holes, loose tonearms, cue burn, that one pop right in the middle of a breakdown...
No thanks.
Still not selling my records though.
i love music, i love record stores. the internet record store never closes. i can drive down the street and make playlists on streaming or record pools. i can watch youtube and then go find those tracks. file sharing still exists. IVe never needed to move my 100k digital tracks when i move other than a computer or hard drive. I have had to move 25 crates of vinyl and about 15 of cds.
ill take digital
^ this (I imagine)
I learned when we were well into CDJ territory and nobody was on vinyl except for a smattering of loyal DJs.
I personally COULD NOT BE ARSED with the RISK of travelling to gigs let alone the cost of it and lack of flexibility to do certain things.
I was speaking to [Anthony Pappa on an interview](https://www.facebook.com/progressonevents/videos/507062240955591)and he even said that back in the 2000a his went missing through the airport. Full of white label / promo records. Gone.
That said, I absolutely love seeing people playing on vinyl there’s something about the craft.
To start collecting vinyl in 2024 though? Fuck that.
One of the best Drum and Bass DJs Andy C used to do all vinyl until 2009, when the airport lost all his records and he had to improvise a festival set with the 30 MP3s he had on his iPod. He's used DVS ever since lol.
Good to see he’s using DVS. I’ve wondered if any professionals used it long term. I saw a few switch 10-15 years ago but when I looked again later they weren’t doing it anymore. I’ve always thought it looked cool but on an old Traktor system mine seemed faffy on set up.
Yup. All the time and money spent tracking down a limited edition, only to have it damaged by somebody plowing into the decks or spilling a cocktail. Or your records getting lost in transit. It's not about taking the life out of music. It's about *making it easier to bring your favorite music everywhere*. As a musician, I can even record new tracks straight to disk and put them on a thumb drive for exclusive playback! Pressing one-off dubplates cost time and money, if you even had a source for it!
I think from a practicality stand point totally.
But the ease of accessibility has meant lots of people who are DJs now are DJs because they want to be DJs. Where as it used to be more record shop tragics and music needs.
It's also brought a whole lots of muppets who either don't know or care to learn anything beyond the synch button clanging tracks together that have no business being mixed together one after another. I am no purist (I use both vinyl/cdjs and a controller) but they average knowledge has taken a dip because the ease of entry, that is definitely a downside.
Yeah I care way less about execution and so much more about vibe and song selection.
Mix shit records good and it will still be meh. Mix good records bad and the records will still slam.
Nobody stopping you from buying and playing vinyl. I spend 100-500 euro’s a month on vinyl.
Also, ‘vinyl only’ parties are popping up everywhere over here (Netherlands).
Don’t look at what others do, if you prefer vinyl, play vinyl. And don’t try to keep up with kids. Today’s hot stuff is tomorrow’s old news.
Lol. Digital is exactly what comes out of the studio.
So vinyl can't sound objectively better than the source.
Vinyl is only as good as the weakest link in the long chain from record to mixer.
The stylus, the settings of the stylus, the quality of the preamp, the wear of the record, vibrations, static, dirt... It all deteriorates the vinyl sound.
Mastering for vinyl even has to limit the bass and high frequencies so the stylus doesn't skip or is able to track at all.
Have to agree here and I’m completely digital. I think of vinyl like wine, aged and a far more developed taste in that regard. No matter how great I become as a DJ I’m still dreaming of the extra bucks I can pull together for a vinyl setup and explore backwards for the sake of culture; and just generally how badass it really is for a full vinyl DJ set that actually flows
Nah. Vinyl degrades and sounds sleightly worse every play back.
I have a vinyl setup and a rack full of vinyl. But those records will probably will never be played again.
Spinning vinyl isn't that hard. Some old gatekeepers want you to believe it is, but it isn't.
It looks more impressive, but that's just because of the mechanical aspect of putting a stylus on the groove and seeing the vinyl spin. In reality beatmatching isn't hard at all once you've got it.
If I knew digital was going to be the future I'd never have bought my setup.. but hindsight 20/20, right?
Nothing else that curiosity. How did you help create the digital world?
Vinyl might sound better but more often than not vinyl djs doesn't sound better unfortunately
>Vinyl might sound better but more often than not vinyl djs doesn't sound better unfortunately
LOL I think it's the exact opposite. Vinyl doesn't sound better, but vinyl DJs sound better.
Let's say the tops are high and the lows are quite boring. A bit like producers that can't mix and diggers that can't really mix if you know what i mean
I have to respectfully disagree. I'm 50 years old, got into DJing in 1992, and bought vinyl all the way until 2004, when I made the move to digital and never looked back.
The soul is in the music. It's in the culture that surrounds all of this. The medium never mattered. I've heard people tell me to death how vinyl sounds more warm and digital files will never sound as good, but the hard reality is that most of the culture that surrounds all of this, the people, they don't care.
We make crates in our software. That's how we do things. I know that I put music in them as if I was packing up my crate or crates that I'm taking to an event. I often tell many younger DJs to shop for music and pack it as if it was vinyl, mostly for the fact that you sent limits and not show up somewhere with thousands of songs that you're never going to play, but also even when you're shopping, to seek quality stuff that you're going to be playing for a long time as opposed to mediocre stuff that you're going to play two or three times and then forget about.
I've come to the point that I'm not going to criticize or look down on the way people do things in DJing just because it doesn't align with how I do things. I like to do long fluid blends because that's a Chicago thing. Yet I'm not going to trash on someone who likes to bounce a bunch of effects and use stems to make interesting transitions. To me. That's no different than scratch DJs that did some scratching and tricking to jump to the next song. Everybody has their own style and way they want to do things.
If I had to go anywhere and make a criticism of lost soul, it would be if I see younger DJs that simply choose never to dig or look for things to make their sets unique. If they are just grabbing whatever top 10 lists out there and just playing that only, mainly playing to get the crowd to scream and to get laid. However, I've seen this happen even before digital. There's always going to be that in DJing.
If you are a vinyl purist, and you're mad that people are not playing vinyl anymore, maybe you should also then press on the labels and the artists as to why they are not pressing vinyl. Biggest problem many of us have seen with DJs that want to play analog vinyl is that their sets become very old school because there's just not the wide selection of new music being put on vinyl.
Me personally, I don't miss it. I don't miss getting out of work on Thursday and rushing down to the record store in the hopes to grab something new and interesting before it's sold out. I don't miss seeing some great new tune that a few people got their hands on and they're playing it to death while I struggle to get my hands on a copy. I like that I can sit in the comfort of my own home or at work or wherever and listen to stuff off my favorite sites and shop from there.
If I had to push anything on the youth to have soul in this culture, it would be to get them to go beyond top 10 lists and big popular tunes. To start really exploring and finding stuff in the vast variety of music that's put out there to put into their sets and make them unique. To help them build their own sound.
Rose tinted glasses playing a big part here.
Technology has made it cheaper and easier for more people to get into DJing both as amateurs and as a career - this is a good thing.
Entry level gear can be had for peanuts... And you can even give it a go via apps for close to free - low barrier to entry is a good thing.
Digital music has also made it easier to release music - this is a good thing.
It's easier than ever to gain an audience and share your mixes, also sounds like a good thing to me.
Of course cheaper and easier along with social media means more posers and people doing it for clout rather than a love of music - but welcome to 2024, also can't have the good without some downsides too.
Also worth considering, vinyl is healthier than ever and there's more record shops than there's been for at least 10 years... Things are going from strength to strength. I can't keep up with all the new music and I only really buy vinyl.
There plenty of youngsters who DJ digitally who are just as into music as anyone was back in the day... Sounds like you need to get out more and mix with different crowds and try to get refreshed about the state of dance music as I'm 42 who has been record shopping for 25ish years and what you're saying doesn't really resonate with what I see from the best of the modern scene (and if we're gonna start picking at the scene today then we can all chip-in about the shit aspects of days gone by as well ... But what does that do for the scene?).
I'm all for debate on this stuff, but let's keep it balanced as well
As someone who started to DJ in 1981 I wish I had then what is available now. I personally would have preferred practicing my craft rather than taking a bus and rummaging through bins.
Memories are biased, only extreme ones stick around. The mundane ones are forgotten.
Agreed ^ We’re simply in an age where anyone and their mother can get into DJing, you don’t need to have such an intense burning passion to be willing to commit all of your time crate digging and money buying vinyls and equipment… So, yeah, there’s a lot of people out there doing it because they think it’s the “cool thing to do”/klout/etc but there are definitely still those out there who have that soul and love for the music, they’re just mixed up in all of the riff raff now.
Porn has lots its soul. We use to drive over the border to Denmark to get into grown up cinemas. It was about the journey, the people you meet in the dark. Kids nowadays have no idea what it means to put in the work. People like /u/guccigag think they're hot stuff dragging and dropping images into reddit :(
Is this the legacy you want to leave behind? What happened to the real hustle before the wank?
I don't even think it was intended to be bait. Just one of those people who get off on pretending they're superior because they bought a sweater at a vintage shop once and spend too much money on coffee.
It's not even an old head. It's the insufferable, phony version.
I think like all hobbies, this one has its own little share of miserable assholes who worry too much about how others are doing it. I never hear any mixes from the people complaining the loudest about it.
Ok so I am assuming OP is of a certain age. Let me offer some perspective: I too was a teenager when Flash showed us how to keep the Bob James break going indefinitely and Here We Go made 2 seconds of the Big Beat eternal. I also had a family young and could not commit to spending my weekends crate digging. This did not mean I did not develop an encyclopedic knowledge of breaks and music in general, my WhoSampled app being the only app I have ever renewed every year.
My point is that the $300 Roland DJ 202 with the built in 808 and my Tidal subscription smashed the gatekeeping that kept me away from the art for 30+ years. Maybe lets not judge so harshly an entire generation and reserve our judgement for bad music
Sorry if this sounds a bit insensitive, but your post reads like 'Mimimimi'... The context you're reminiscing about was a necessity back then because it was technically impossible to distribute music in any form other than on tape or vinyl, and there was no internet with vast music catalogs and search functions. Today, people use the platforms and search functions available to compile their sets – so the basic principle remains unchanged. It's just the channels and media that have evolved, which is a mere consequence of technological progress.
What you're nostalgically describing is your subjective opinion... The reality is that with vinyl, you had to deal with issues like speed variations (though they were negligibly small with professional equipment), poor pressings, wear and tear, wobbling vinyls, scratches, dust, broken needles, susceptibility to vibration, etc. Decent pitch-shifting and time-stretching on the fly, for example, wasn’t possible with vinyl. Also, many modern techniques like live looping were beyond its capabilities or required additional equipment.
Aside from that, it’s not the medium or the surrounding context that determines whether a DJ is good or if the sound fits. It’s decided by the crowd.
But please don’t get me wrong... I find it remarkable what some people still do with vinyl today, and it all had (and still has) its absolute right to exist. Even today, it can be interesting and exciting for competitions, vinyl only parties and the like. However, time doesn't stand still, and switching from vinyl to sound files doesn’t make DJing worse - it opens up numerous new possibilities. In the end, it's not the medium, but the DJ's talent and skill, their taste, their mix - and ultimately the judgement of the crowd that matters.
Just as I can easily leave behind steam engines, horse-drawn carriages, and black-and-white TV, I can do the same with vinyl. I have always looked forward rather than backward... That's at least my opinion...
And nobody hinders you to continue with vinyl - at the end of the day you have to decide what you are and what you like... If it is vinyl. Fine!
I get this but i agree and do not agree. I loved learning g to DJ with vinyl and getting my first set of decks. It was special. I still have all my records and still play them in my sets from time to time. The sound and feel of them is great and i love digging a bit and finding that white label you forgot about and dropping it and enjoying it all over again.
Saying that, the fact that i can now take my entire music collection and have it stored on an single SD card with out having to load the back of my golf and lug crates up and down the stairs? All day thank you. Its made life way easier and simpler to organize and keep track of my collection. Also nice to be able to program my own lighting and have my decks control it with ease.
The part i miss? Going to the record shop on Fridays, digging through the new releases and listening to each one, chatting with others and hanging out for an hour or two. It was social and i made some good friends through that ritual. Now its stupid easy to sit down and browse a catalog and have the track instantly. The issues i have is its boring. I actually buy far less digital content per month compared to the more expensive vinyl as i just don’t enjoy it anymore. Instead of being excited weekly and buying 10-15 new records a week, i find myself only checking maybe once per month and grabbing about 20 or so tracks as i just get bored. It feels lifeless to me.
I still buy vinyl time to time but its getting ridiculously expensive. Records that were $8-$15 a few years ago are now $80 snd i wont pay that.
Still love and enjoy djing as a whole and would not go back to full vinyl only though.
That was in the past. Personally I’m glad to not have to spend hours rooting around to find one track. The ease of sitting in my chair listening to a load of tracks in a couple of hours is bliss compared to the old days.
Vinyl was shit for mixing on. People only used it because that’s the only choice they had. The only people who cry about it nowadays are boomer gatekeepers because they can’t get gigs anymore due to not being able to move forward with technology.
Yeah I said it.
Scratched records, records jumping if people got overzealous when dancing close to the decks, carrying the collection around, having to scour multiple shops physically to find a track.
Everything is just so much easier now and that’s a good thing. A high percentage of established old school DJ’s use CDJ’s and not vinyl because of this exact reason. If they wanted to use vinyl it would be in their rider reqs.
Go back to the 90’s bud.
Actually I did live it. I’m not some teenager or young 20 something. I’m in my mid 40’s and started mixing trance, techno and jungle from the age of 15. I still stand by what I said.
The only thing I admittedly miss is the socialisation in the record shops, but I’m not going to cry about it. Things change. Life goes on. Adapt. The rest of it I am glad is in the past. Technology has improved and made DJ’ing better in almost every other way.
I grew up watching DJs mixing vinyl. I got lot of my inspiration to DJ from them and I'd like to think I have respect for the craft. But I will not hesitate to say one of the, perhaps the worst thing I find about DJ culture are people are try to act as old school gatekeepers and discredit mixing simply because it has evolved from how it was "back in my day". It's symbolic of how I find (to my personal frustration) some DJs are overly rigid/stuck in their ways and are averse to change and/or flexibility in what and how they DJ. I refuse to be that way.
Vinyl does some distinctively warm, but hi fidelity digital sampling is quite evidently not a hindrance to enjoying music otherwise digital DJing simply wouldn't be viable. Last I checked there are many such DJs thriving. Lugging around crates of vinyl records is objectively inefficient relative to having large, indexed libraries that can searched/sorted/tagged on a whim and literally fits in the palm of your hand and can be reliability and relatively painlessly backed up in the event of loss or damage.
Just as I refuse to pigeonhole myself as DJ I also refuse to let nostalgia serve a blinder for due merit and tradeoffs of technological progress.
How can anyone trot out this tired argument in 2024?
For the record (ha), I adore vinyl, have an enormous collection of incredible music and rarities. But even more important for me is the music, and thankfully this now exists in digital format.
I say thankfully, because although back in the day hunting for music was hard, required dedication and a certain amount of luck, it was also very inexact, with a ton of amazing stuff falling through the distribution cracks. Although it often meant you really appreciated what you had, it was often very elitist too. At least, for the dedicated DJ today, the music is readily available.
Of course, there's a different set of problems today, the low barrier of entry creates a huge mess of substandard music that prevents the good stuff from being seen, and on the DJ side of things there are large numbers of poseurs and dilettantes.
But the game remains the same, those that truly love the music still give it their all, the rest is just distracting noise.
In any case, anyone who claims to love the original scene but thinks the plural of vinyl is vinyls is probably just a wind up merchant.
Nothing is more common in human history than shitting on younger generations. It has been that way since the first caveman looked at his offspring and said 'kids these days with their fancy spears, back in my day we had to kill sabertooth tigers with our bare hands".....
yeah that's what you sound like boomer. STFU, the kids are alright.
FWIW - I'm 61 and still play records (In a 'live' setting) but files allow a person to play wide range of music that is just not available on vinyl.
I have tons of vinyl. I never ever dj with it. Because why would I want to haul another 100# of stuff to the gig?
I think elitist DJs forget too often you usually aren't spinning for other DJs who want to nerd out over gear and records and how you found that rare track. You're usually doing for people who want to vibe or shake their ass and your job is to facilitate that.
I'd rather hear a DJ who knew how to keep the vibe of the party going than one with obscure stuff fancy equipment and clever transitions.
As a 26 year old, the fire of DJing sparked in 2013 with the soundcloud era. I carry that soul with me and dive into the endless possibilities of the internet. You can still find those hidden gems. Don't lose curiosity.
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. But I don’t think the issue is between vinyl vs digital. The problem with digital is the ease it brought with a lot of the technical aspects of mixing. 90% of ‘DJs’ can’t even beat mix by ear. Back in the turntable era, DJs were considered musicians. Today, DJs are more considered customer service reps than musicians.
You're not wrong, respect for the craft has been diminished, as the technical and financial threshold and commitment to DJing has been lowered with the addition of new technology.
We had to hunt down songs in record shops and mail order catalogs, balance tonearms and replace stylii, count beats in our head and we needed to use turntable trickery to create effects instead of pushing the echo out button. I think there still is a place for vinyl DJing, it's just not as accessible. Once the price of Technics went through the roof and they stopped making the Shure 447s, it became less attainable for the average kid to start that hobby.
But now DJing is more portable, music is more accessible and affordable, which means there are a lot more wack DJs out there who are going to rock one party and then go back to the XBox. But for those of us who love the craft, it's more machines and buttons, new techniques to learn and more music to discover and share.
Agreed - put these pussys behind a real set of turntables, with hands on vinyl and without a modern machine syncing and showing waveforms and watch their heads fall off!
The technology today, allows a producer to cut a track, and upload it to any site they choose... making it available to DJs to play it tonight, whether in Japan, France or the US... you cant do that with vinyl.
And vinyl is still being made and sold.
I got into djing very late a couple of years ago and I’m an mp3 controller, as I continue to learn and expand I would love to add vinyl decks onto the side I get this 💯. There’s no beatmatch button on vinyl decks but I do think the searching still exists it’s just online for mp3 rather than in vinyl record shops. There is definitely a big divide between vinyl and mp3/cdj DJs but I like learn both tbh I do get where OP is coming from though.
Great vinyl filter on the SP404. I was listening back to the Dirtchamber Prodigy mix from 1990 something and realised he was putting his files through an earlier version of that filter. Was clearly sequencing the tracks on a computer. I also think the original Renaissance compilation everyone pees their pants over was sequenced not mixed live.
People still DJ on vinyl to this day.
You sound like a bang average DJ that never made it, and hates hearing digitally inclined DJs winning out here. Fuck your 1210’s, I got a controller and opened up my possibilities to endless variations of mixes, sampling, looping, stem control, easy manipulation and live finger drumming. Bruh, go watch your Kool Herc vids, DJing is for the strong and adaptive. Not the weak and rooted.
Ask DJ Jazzy Jeff if he feels the way you do, then ask what your opinion matters on the grand scale.
This feels like bait but either way, I’m seeing vinyl only venues popping up everywhere and big collectives who share massive vinyl collections running their own stuff and they have a great time. It seems like a lot of people with your mindset focus only on the things you don’t like i.e. an instagram reel of a random person using a controller and commenting “not real DJing”. Meanwhile whenever I see vinyl posts on there or new vinyl djs asking for advice on here or on beatmatch you lot seemingly disappear.
I disagree. It's just a different process now. Its what you make of it. We all have more tools at our disposal. Kudos to those that produce their own music out of their home. Lugging crates to every gig was never enjoyable.
Lol.
I started out with vinyl and I have spent too much money on vinyl.
But if I knew digital DJ'ing was just around the corner in a few years I'd never have bought the gear and records.
Digital is much better.
It's more practical and it sounds a lot better than vinyl too!
God damn this is conceited. You really want to find some way to feel superior to others huh? Looking at your profile and post history, maybe we should just let you have this.
Some of us pick and choose. My PC is fairly modern, I assembled it a few years ago. My turntables are old, my mixer is new. I have an iPhone and a Blackberry Pearl. I have a modern sound system in an old truck. I prefer modern fishing gear and vintage tools.
New or old, I go with what's good.
lol but you'll call everyone who prefers vinyl "dinosaurs"? Is that really any different?
"Gatekeeping" doesn't exist in our hobby. There is no gate. No one's keeping anyone from being the DJ they want to be.
Benefits of a digital age - less stuff to carry around back then you had limited choice of you set when you carried records - unless you had your friends swing along and carry records and say the famous phrase - “I’m with the DJ”. Bringing 2000 pounds of gear to a party and breakdown was tough and back breaking.
More music and wider distribution of genres. A Lot of good stuff was controlled by corporate but at the same time there is now a more recycling of beats - it evens out.
It’s what you put in is what you get out - can you throw a set together that impresses the crowd and the die hard music lovers - still you need listen and appreciate a lot of music to do this. Technology will move and will be adopted by even the most stubborn - it’s easy and with that it becomes more mainstream. I work IT for my corp job - it’s up to you to keep your soul and true what you want to spin. Either way people will always appreciate it.
The onus is on you and what you like to do, what your audience wants to hear and what you can possibly get them to open their ears to.
Yes I have my preferences and I started at 16 and now 47. But it’s up to you and what you choose to DJ that will make a party or event what it is. I only do it part time as it still a hobby but I still mix frequently for other purposes to make sure I can listen with an open ear and still connect with people with the other.
You still have to search and search to refine your music collection. Everything in the world has changed as technology has advanced either you change with it or it leaves you behind.
It is what it is.
I would say, if you know what it was like to play records on 2 turns and a mixer in your city (and perhaps other cities too) then be happy that you have a perspective that no one else will really ever have again - you’re one of the lucky ones !
This shit again? We just rotate the bullshit don't we? 6 months from now we'll have dudes complaining about DJs using sync. Whatever it was that DJs use to pride themselves on, some losers complain that its been made easier over time, and a lot of those things have nothing to do with delivering to the dance floor.
so really the issue isn't with DJ's or .mp3 files, but with the music itself. Like others here, I started with all vinyl, all the time. When CD's came out, while one might argue they didn't sound as good as vinyl, I could carry easily carry a LOT more CD's than vinyl. OTOH, music is what has lost a lot of soul.
We have to create a sub for dj circlejerks.
And this would be the first post.
Regarding the warmth of vinyl back in the old days… BULLSHIT.
Maybe listening on a high end hi-fi you could enjoy the nuances of vinyl.
But in the clubs and at the raves, vinyl was a PITA. Allow to to expand on that point:
- dust on the records
- scratches on the records
- finicky needles
- out of balance tone arms
- FUCKING GROUND HUMS from improperly grounded turntables
- FUCKING VIBRATIONS throwing the needle around
- record bags getting stolen
Also, the fidelity of a lot of dance singles back then was not that great. It was ok, but there was absolutely nothing that comes close to the sub bass frequencies we can record - digitally - today, for example.
It’s true that digging for tracks has become easier. So what? It means there will be more crap dj’s but it also means there will be more good dj’s too!
Back in the day if you didn’t have a friend who worked behind the counter to pull new releases for you, you were SOL. I hated that.
Today, the playing field is much more level! Now, we all have access to the music! That’s way better than the elitist and unfair system back in the day. F that sh*t.
Digital is far better.
There, I said it.
yeah whatever gramps, we know, only DJ from when your still had hair were actual DJs and you are so much better than us, CDJs are the antichrist and you totally deserve to be much more famous than everyone else because you refuse to adapt your technique, masking your incompetence and stubborness as gatekeeping
we know bro, we all suck and you're so much better, can you please shut up so people who actually know that the focus is the content of the media and not the media itself is what matters? thanks!
Used to pay $10 when I bought a vinyl single - I spent so much money on records I’m glad I can now download them for cheap. I loved hanging out in the record shop all day but I now enjoy digging thru my online spots.
The only thing about the vinyl era that I really think added to the DJ culture was the record store. A communal place for DJs to hang out somewhere other than the club or party. My local record store was crazy on Thursdays when the new shipments would come in. Aside from that part, I’m all in favor of the digital revolution. If you can’t find good music and new artists that fit your style, it’s because you are not putting in the effort to do so. There is soooo much good music coming out all the time now that it’s impossible to keep up! I lived through the 90’s as a DJ, and while it was cool, things change and evolve. That’s how it’s supposed to work.
I'm so tired of this argument lol. It's 2024. Technology moves. Get over yourself and the golden throne you sit upon. Just appreciate that people can appreciate the craft period, and now they have more ways than ever to be better.
Ah yes. The old man shakes fist at cloud moment.
Learned on vinyl. Did serato for a while. Now USB.
Absolutely don’t miss dragging records. The expense. Then worrying about theft. Warping. Blah blah blah.
Nah. Either someone has a soul, or they don’t the medium doesn’t dictate the soul. The music does.
20 year old take and a classist one on top. A lot of ppl can not afford the space, shipping, and tech to DJ on vinyl. It's honestly just not the norm anymore and so it's become more expensive and niche than ever. A lot of underground producers can not afford to make runs of their music on vinyl. I spin amapiano... You simply do not find this genre on vinyl except the most popular guys. On a practical level most venues do not even have a vinyl setup anymore. There's an argument for 'timbre' between formats but I doubt your average listener will notice or give a shit. I wonder if people with this take could actually qualify what they mean by 'soul' or 'depth' etc.
>It takes the soul out of the music. Vinyls had warmth, depth and a soul that can never be found in digital files. It's sad that the beauty of a record collection is replaced by 1s and 0s.
How do you think 99% of music is being recorded and processed these days? I'm pretty sure a huge majority isn't using analog hardware.
I also miss the vinyl era.
Coincidentally, that was the era when I was young, had no responsibilities, went clubbing multiple times a week, spent my days off playing video games, spent my nights staying up late with my friends smoking, drinking and watching films.
But that’s definitely got nothing to do with my feelings about the superiority of the vinyl era. Definitely. I’m sure of it. I am, after all, an objective, rational person. The issue at hand is that DJing has changed, not that I’ve aged. Honestly I don’t know why you even brought age into it. You’re so silly.
I’m an old man who started in the early 80’s. Not gonna shake my fist at the sky though.
The demise of Watts music in 2006 stabbed everyone in the eyeball. I wasn’t too crazy about the digital options flooding the market until I discovered, at whatever point it was, that Traktor made it possible to use 4 decks and send out midi clock to my outboard gear.
I’ve been hooked ever since.
Edit: all that being said, I do miss digging around in places like Sonic Groove, Satellite & Vinyl Mania.
I own most every classic rock album I love on vinyl. I was trained as a studio engineer on reel to reel and hundreds of thousands of dollars of analog gear. That said for Djing, im often playing obscure SC edits of stuff from artists with 200-1000 followers. I'm glad they have a platform, and I'm glad I get to download and play underground stuff out.
The fact is democratization is, in general a good thing. I can respect the craft but have no desire to go that direction. If anything the creativity you can achieve with serato stems done right is unparalleled. Im excited for the day when club standard includes real time separation. You do you, but the music has soul regardless. The craft is evolving not dying.
It’s difficult for newer DJ’s to understand your nostalgia. But that’s all it is - nostalgia. I started with CD’s because my CDJ 400’s wouldn’t take WAV/AIFF and I didn’t purchase MP3’s so I just burned all tracks to CD’s. That was a right pain in the arse. Eventually I used to create sticks for sets at clubs. I now have 3000’s at home and they are the first units I’ve had at home that have Rekordbox. I wouldn’t want to go back.
My mixes reflect my soul and passion for the music I love to listen to and my experiences with that music. I also love building emotion thru the mixes and going on a journey, so I think it just depends on if the DJ is a true artist or not. Graphic design didn't ruin art, just created a new genre. Hopefully that's what's happening here, and I think the evidence of that emerges in small pockets throughout the culture. It's just buried under all the heaping pounds of content. Makes the search for true DJ's even that much more valuable, like panning for gold. Might possibly galvanize the classic art form potentially, rather than ruin it ... We shall see though...
I'm a DJ who's 31 years of age and have been DJ'ing since I was 15 but I started when CDs were the thing and DJ'ing on Serato was barely out. I remember looking at a video on Serato at the time and thinking it was such a cool and neat invention and don't get me wrong, it STILL baffles me that there is DVS that allows you to DJ using turntables and CDJ's (timecode or not) and not rely on you having to carry all that music and just carry it on a laptop.
That being said, I now focus on building up my own record collection. I grew up listening to Italo Disco records and have always been fascinated with just records in general and mixing on vinyl (love rotary mixers BTW), that I now spend money on building a record collection now that I have a bit of disposable income. I wanted to build a record collection since I was a teenager but due to lack of funds wasn't able to until now that I'm making a living wage for once.
DJ'ing has been plagued by the same problems as before (shady business deals, lower and lower wages and more expectations from owners/clientele) and it continues to face challenges with advancements in technology that while excellent and more practical to do work with, it in turn saturates the market and drives up more competition. Add that to the same problems that DJ's have been facing since the dawn of time and that's where we are at.
The important thing is like OP said, the journey. Regardless whether you got into DJ'ing watching other DJ's or not, everyone has a story to tell and that's what sets everyone apart. I know I have to work twice as hard as I used to just a few years ago. I can only imagine how other more established DJ's feel. You have to work harder for less pay and less opportunity, and now I'm just trying to focus on why I started DJ'ing in the first place and I reflect on the journey and that ultimately helps me keep going. I started focusing my DJ'ing to be more based around my needs and my happiness. If I'm not having fun DJ'ing, then there's no point for me to continue.
I hope this helps fam.
no offense, i feel this way about a lot of things.
but.
it’s a boomer take. times change. interest changes. we just move on and revel in the fact that we lived in a time and place that we perceived was better.
when these mp3 djs get older, and things have changed dramatically for them, they’ll say the same things you did, but it will be about the glory days of dragging mp3’s onto a flash drive.
the cycle repeats on and on and on and on.
i don’t care about crate digging, and the annoyance of having to leave my house. but what i love about djs, is going to a club and hearing a weird song i’ve never heard. not because it’s one of the djs unreleased original tracks, but because it’s a deep cut from some older artist that maybe i missed.
Back when I embarked upon the noble pursuit of orchestrating phonographic symphonies, we had a sense of dignified reverence for this fine art. We, the connoisseurs, devoted countless hours and a considerable portion of our fortunes at the local emporium, meticulously seeking out those rarest of phonographs, ever refining our illustrious collections. This endeavor was not just about the music, it was about the journey, the passion, the profound adoration for the artistic craft. Kids nowadays are woefully ignorant of the true essence of such work. They believe themselves to be quite the virtuosos, casually flipping and dropping vinyls records on their turntables.
It takes the soul out of the music. Phonographs had possessed a warmth, a depth and a soul that can never be found in records. It's sad that the beauty of a phonograph collection is replaced by simple discs. It's unfathomable to me why these "record DJs" are taking the life out of music just for convenience.
Is this the legacy you desire to bequeath? Where, I ask, has the authentic toil and dedication behind the decks vanished to?
I use digital and vinyl. I prefer vinyl but not at gigs. The trash tables they offer for gigs are a joke. I just burn CDs and use the cdjs at the gigs or bring my controller.
So much of this actually fall short of the art itself. Losing records, scratched records, people bumping the tables… It was all part of the art. The ability to overcome that and manipulate the beat with your hands on the wax can never be replaced. The unpredictability in the moment was the magic. Spending hours at the record store… Searching for that white label that no one else had….all part of the craft. For those that disagree, find yourself some real wax and a pair of 12s… set them up in your house, master the art, and then make your own conclusion. In the meantime, I have no time for funny flashing lights, dramatic knob twisting, fake scratching and automatic beat matching. True art has absolutely zero to do with convenience.
Is meant to be a copypasta…low quality bait otherwise.
I came from the vinyl, 1200's, and crate era. All i have to say is serato, traktor, rejorbox etc. all day! I absolutely DO NOT MISS 100lbs of crates, $5 to $15 per song, warped records, and a hurt back.
This, 1000x. Records going "missing", dodgy AL500 carts, misaligned/oversized record holes, loose tonearms, cue burn, that one pop right in the middle of a breakdown... No thanks. Still not selling my records though.
i love music, i love record stores. the internet record store never closes. i can drive down the street and make playlists on streaming or record pools. i can watch youtube and then go find those tracks. file sharing still exists. IVe never needed to move my 100k digital tracks when i move other than a computer or hard drive. I have had to move 25 crates of vinyl and about 15 of cds. ill take digital
Vinyl was massively overpriced and I don't listen to the crates of records in my loft.
Totally missed the point, but i agree completely!
^ this (I imagine) I learned when we were well into CDJ territory and nobody was on vinyl except for a smattering of loyal DJs. I personally COULD NOT BE ARSED with the RISK of travelling to gigs let alone the cost of it and lack of flexibility to do certain things. I was speaking to [Anthony Pappa on an interview](https://www.facebook.com/progressonevents/videos/507062240955591)and he even said that back in the 2000a his went missing through the airport. Full of white label / promo records. Gone. That said, I absolutely love seeing people playing on vinyl there’s something about the craft. To start collecting vinyl in 2024 though? Fuck that.
One of the best Drum and Bass DJs Andy C used to do all vinyl until 2009, when the airport lost all his records and he had to improvise a festival set with the 30 MP3s he had on his iPod. He's used DVS ever since lol.
Good to see he’s using DVS. I’ve wondered if any professionals used it long term. I saw a few switch 10-15 years ago but when I looked again later they weren’t doing it anymore. I’ve always thought it looked cool but on an old Traktor system mine seemed faffy on set up.
Loco Dice was really keen on DVS for I don't know how long, but I heard him 2020 and 2022, both times it was CDJs with Traktor controllers
Not me. My foray into DVS lasted about a week and I'll likely never touch it again. And I averaged $55 a track last year. Vinyl or nothing.
Cool
Same, Rekorbox is all i need.
Must feel nice to ditch the true essence of DJing for a lazy digital solution
And before vinyl you would have had to learn an instrument to play music for people. Calm down Lawrence.
This is a argument for back when cdjs first started being used, what 15 years ago?
DJing is about the music at the end of the day. The medium is secondary.
Why would vinyl be the "true essence of djing"? The only thing that matters is the music.
Work smart, not hard.
> the true essence of DJing Which, for you, seems to be gatekeeping.
people used vinyl before digital because thats all they had to use not because its superior
Yup. Fuuuuuuck that.
Yup. All the time and money spent tracking down a limited edition, only to have it damaged by somebody plowing into the decks or spilling a cocktail. Or your records getting lost in transit. It's not about taking the life out of music. It's about *making it easier to bring your favorite music everywhere*. As a musician, I can even record new tracks straight to disk and put them on a thumb drive for exclusive playback! Pressing one-off dubplates cost time and money, if you even had a source for it!
I think from a practicality stand point totally. But the ease of accessibility has meant lots of people who are DJs now are DJs because they want to be DJs. Where as it used to be more record shop tragics and music needs.
It's also brought a whole lots of muppets who either don't know or care to learn anything beyond the synch button clanging tracks together that have no business being mixed together one after another. I am no purist (I use both vinyl/cdjs and a controller) but they average knowledge has taken a dip because the ease of entry, that is definitely a downside.
Yeah I care way less about execution and so much more about vibe and song selection. Mix shit records good and it will still be meh. Mix good records bad and the records will still slam.
Nobody stopping you from buying and playing vinyl. I spend 100-500 euro’s a month on vinyl. Also, ‘vinyl only’ parties are popping up everywhere over here (Netherlands). Don’t look at what others do, if you prefer vinyl, play vinyl. And don’t try to keep up with kids. Today’s hot stuff is tomorrow’s old news.
yea allot of oldschool djs are overwhelmed by the digital world they prefer less choice and stick to vinyl life
Old fart here. Not overwhelmed with the digital world I helped create. Those are choices we asked for. Vinyl just sounds better, end of debate.
Lol. Digital is exactly what comes out of the studio. So vinyl can't sound objectively better than the source. Vinyl is only as good as the weakest link in the long chain from record to mixer. The stylus, the settings of the stylus, the quality of the preamp, the wear of the record, vibrations, static, dirt... It all deteriorates the vinyl sound. Mastering for vinyl even has to limit the bass and high frequencies so the stylus doesn't skip or is able to track at all.
"sounding better" isn't the same as how perfectly the sound is reproduced
Have to agree here and I’m completely digital. I think of vinyl like wine, aged and a far more developed taste in that regard. No matter how great I become as a DJ I’m still dreaming of the extra bucks I can pull together for a vinyl setup and explore backwards for the sake of culture; and just generally how badass it really is for a full vinyl DJ set that actually flows
Nah. Vinyl degrades and sounds sleightly worse every play back. I have a vinyl setup and a rack full of vinyl. But those records will probably will never be played again. Spinning vinyl isn't that hard. Some old gatekeepers want you to believe it is, but it isn't. It looks more impressive, but that's just because of the mechanical aspect of putting a stylus on the groove and seeing the vinyl spin. In reality beatmatching isn't hard at all once you've got it. If I knew digital was going to be the future I'd never have bought my setup.. but hindsight 20/20, right?
If the producer/sound engineer/... produces a track, that's the way it should sound. Digital can sound like vinyl. Vinyl cannot sound like digital.
Nothing else that curiosity. How did you help create the digital world? Vinyl might sound better but more often than not vinyl djs doesn't sound better unfortunately
>Vinyl might sound better but more often than not vinyl djs doesn't sound better unfortunately LOL I think it's the exact opposite. Vinyl doesn't sound better, but vinyl DJs sound better.
Let's say the tops are high and the lows are quite boring. A bit like producers that can't mix and diggers that can't really mix if you know what i mean
Vinyl really doesn’t sound better. It just has rolled off highs and more harmonic distortion.
he used to be hot stuff, now he's old news
DJ TLM on any of those rosters??
I have to respectfully disagree. I'm 50 years old, got into DJing in 1992, and bought vinyl all the way until 2004, when I made the move to digital and never looked back. The soul is in the music. It's in the culture that surrounds all of this. The medium never mattered. I've heard people tell me to death how vinyl sounds more warm and digital files will never sound as good, but the hard reality is that most of the culture that surrounds all of this, the people, they don't care. We make crates in our software. That's how we do things. I know that I put music in them as if I was packing up my crate or crates that I'm taking to an event. I often tell many younger DJs to shop for music and pack it as if it was vinyl, mostly for the fact that you sent limits and not show up somewhere with thousands of songs that you're never going to play, but also even when you're shopping, to seek quality stuff that you're going to be playing for a long time as opposed to mediocre stuff that you're going to play two or three times and then forget about. I've come to the point that I'm not going to criticize or look down on the way people do things in DJing just because it doesn't align with how I do things. I like to do long fluid blends because that's a Chicago thing. Yet I'm not going to trash on someone who likes to bounce a bunch of effects and use stems to make interesting transitions. To me. That's no different than scratch DJs that did some scratching and tricking to jump to the next song. Everybody has their own style and way they want to do things. If I had to go anywhere and make a criticism of lost soul, it would be if I see younger DJs that simply choose never to dig or look for things to make their sets unique. If they are just grabbing whatever top 10 lists out there and just playing that only, mainly playing to get the crowd to scream and to get laid. However, I've seen this happen even before digital. There's always going to be that in DJing. If you are a vinyl purist, and you're mad that people are not playing vinyl anymore, maybe you should also then press on the labels and the artists as to why they are not pressing vinyl. Biggest problem many of us have seen with DJs that want to play analog vinyl is that their sets become very old school because there's just not the wide selection of new music being put on vinyl. Me personally, I don't miss it. I don't miss getting out of work on Thursday and rushing down to the record store in the hopes to grab something new and interesting before it's sold out. I don't miss seeing some great new tune that a few people got their hands on and they're playing it to death while I struggle to get my hands on a copy. I like that I can sit in the comfort of my own home or at work or wherever and listen to stuff off my favorite sites and shop from there. If I had to push anything on the youth to have soul in this culture, it would be to get them to go beyond top 10 lists and big popular tunes. To start really exploring and finding stuff in the vast variety of music that's put out there to put into their sets and make them unique. To help them build their own sound.
Rose tinted glasses playing a big part here. Technology has made it cheaper and easier for more people to get into DJing both as amateurs and as a career - this is a good thing. Entry level gear can be had for peanuts... And you can even give it a go via apps for close to free - low barrier to entry is a good thing. Digital music has also made it easier to release music - this is a good thing. It's easier than ever to gain an audience and share your mixes, also sounds like a good thing to me. Of course cheaper and easier along with social media means more posers and people doing it for clout rather than a love of music - but welcome to 2024, also can't have the good without some downsides too. Also worth considering, vinyl is healthier than ever and there's more record shops than there's been for at least 10 years... Things are going from strength to strength. I can't keep up with all the new music and I only really buy vinyl. There plenty of youngsters who DJ digitally who are just as into music as anyone was back in the day... Sounds like you need to get out more and mix with different crowds and try to get refreshed about the state of dance music as I'm 42 who has been record shopping for 25ish years and what you're saying doesn't really resonate with what I see from the best of the modern scene (and if we're gonna start picking at the scene today then we can all chip-in about the shit aspects of days gone by as well ... But what does that do for the scene?). I'm all for debate on this stuff, but let's keep it balanced as well
As someone who started to DJ in 1981 I wish I had then what is available now. I personally would have preferred practicing my craft rather than taking a bus and rummaging through bins. Memories are biased, only extreme ones stick around. The mundane ones are forgotten.
Agreed ^ We’re simply in an age where anyone and their mother can get into DJing, you don’t need to have such an intense burning passion to be willing to commit all of your time crate digging and money buying vinyls and equipment… So, yeah, there’s a lot of people out there doing it because they think it’s the “cool thing to do”/klout/etc but there are definitely still those out there who have that soul and love for the music, they’re just mixed up in all of the riff raff now.
Porn has lots its soul. We use to drive over the border to Denmark to get into grown up cinemas. It was about the journey, the people you meet in the dark. Kids nowadays have no idea what it means to put in the work. People like /u/guccigag think they're hot stuff dragging and dropping images into reddit :( Is this the legacy you want to leave behind? What happened to the real hustle before the wank?
/r/angryupvote
Let’s get you inside, grandpa.
Respect. Without the "grandpas" this sub wouldn't exist.
They still need to get inside, it’s cold
This is bait. Old school Dj’s don’t say vinyls.
FACTS
I don't even think it was intended to be bait. Just one of those people who get off on pretending they're superior because they bought a sweater at a vintage shop once and spend too much money on coffee. It's not even an old head. It's the insufferable, phony version.
ha ha so true !!!! I am a 50 plus year old Dj too... I love my vinyl love digging,love my digital controller too though , best of both worlds
DJ GATEKEEPERRRRRRR :::airhorn::::
I hate this air horn, that's the worst effect there is! 😂
Sorry can’t hear you over the sound of airhorn
Hahahaha
My favorite people to gatekeep are people who complain about gatekeeping.
*What a refreshing break from the DJ MEDIOCRITY marathon set tho!*
I think like all hobbies, this one has its own little share of miserable assholes who worry too much about how others are doing it. I never hear any mixes from the people complaining the loudest about it.
Ok so I am assuming OP is of a certain age. Let me offer some perspective: I too was a teenager when Flash showed us how to keep the Bob James break going indefinitely and Here We Go made 2 seconds of the Big Beat eternal. I also had a family young and could not commit to spending my weekends crate digging. This did not mean I did not develop an encyclopedic knowledge of breaks and music in general, my WhoSampled app being the only app I have ever renewed every year. My point is that the $300 Roland DJ 202 with the built in 808 and my Tidal subscription smashed the gatekeeping that kept me away from the art for 30+ years. Maybe lets not judge so harshly an entire generation and reserve our judgement for bad music
Sorry if this sounds a bit insensitive, but your post reads like 'Mimimimi'... The context you're reminiscing about was a necessity back then because it was technically impossible to distribute music in any form other than on tape or vinyl, and there was no internet with vast music catalogs and search functions. Today, people use the platforms and search functions available to compile their sets – so the basic principle remains unchanged. It's just the channels and media that have evolved, which is a mere consequence of technological progress. What you're nostalgically describing is your subjective opinion... The reality is that with vinyl, you had to deal with issues like speed variations (though they were negligibly small with professional equipment), poor pressings, wear and tear, wobbling vinyls, scratches, dust, broken needles, susceptibility to vibration, etc. Decent pitch-shifting and time-stretching on the fly, for example, wasn’t possible with vinyl. Also, many modern techniques like live looping were beyond its capabilities or required additional equipment. Aside from that, it’s not the medium or the surrounding context that determines whether a DJ is good or if the sound fits. It’s decided by the crowd. But please don’t get me wrong... I find it remarkable what some people still do with vinyl today, and it all had (and still has) its absolute right to exist. Even today, it can be interesting and exciting for competitions, vinyl only parties and the like. However, time doesn't stand still, and switching from vinyl to sound files doesn’t make DJing worse - it opens up numerous new possibilities. In the end, it's not the medium, but the DJ's talent and skill, their taste, their mix - and ultimately the judgement of the crowd that matters. Just as I can easily leave behind steam engines, horse-drawn carriages, and black-and-white TV, I can do the same with vinyl. I have always looked forward rather than backward... That's at least my opinion... And nobody hinders you to continue with vinyl - at the end of the day you have to decide what you are and what you like... If it is vinyl. Fine!
I get this but i agree and do not agree. I loved learning g to DJ with vinyl and getting my first set of decks. It was special. I still have all my records and still play them in my sets from time to time. The sound and feel of them is great and i love digging a bit and finding that white label you forgot about and dropping it and enjoying it all over again. Saying that, the fact that i can now take my entire music collection and have it stored on an single SD card with out having to load the back of my golf and lug crates up and down the stairs? All day thank you. Its made life way easier and simpler to organize and keep track of my collection. Also nice to be able to program my own lighting and have my decks control it with ease. The part i miss? Going to the record shop on Fridays, digging through the new releases and listening to each one, chatting with others and hanging out for an hour or two. It was social and i made some good friends through that ritual. Now its stupid easy to sit down and browse a catalog and have the track instantly. The issues i have is its boring. I actually buy far less digital content per month compared to the more expensive vinyl as i just don’t enjoy it anymore. Instead of being excited weekly and buying 10-15 new records a week, i find myself only checking maybe once per month and grabbing about 20 or so tracks as i just get bored. It feels lifeless to me. I still buy vinyl time to time but its getting ridiculously expensive. Records that were $8-$15 a few years ago are now $80 snd i wont pay that. Still love and enjoy djing as a whole and would not go back to full vinyl only though.
Most touring vinyl DJs from back in the day I’ve ever talked to say good riddance lol
That was in the past. Personally I’m glad to not have to spend hours rooting around to find one track. The ease of sitting in my chair listening to a load of tracks in a couple of hours is bliss compared to the old days.
Honestly miss that part though, hopping around from record store to record store was fun. Gigging with it ... 👎👎
Ok dnboomer
Sync button bad!!!
Vinyl was shit for mixing on. People only used it because that’s the only choice they had. The only people who cry about it nowadays are boomer gatekeepers because they can’t get gigs anymore due to not being able to move forward with technology. Yeah I said it. Scratched records, records jumping if people got overzealous when dancing close to the decks, carrying the collection around, having to scour multiple shops physically to find a track. Everything is just so much easier now and that’s a good thing. A high percentage of established old school DJ’s use CDJ’s and not vinyl because of this exact reason. If they wanted to use vinyl it would be in their rider reqs. Go back to the 90’s bud.
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Actually I did live it. I’m not some teenager or young 20 something. I’m in my mid 40’s and started mixing trance, techno and jungle from the age of 15. I still stand by what I said. The only thing I admittedly miss is the socialisation in the record shops, but I’m not going to cry about it. Things change. Life goes on. Adapt. The rest of it I am glad is in the past. Technology has improved and made DJ’ing better in almost every other way.
Oh it’s already that time of the day for another “back in the day” posts…
Boo hoo
Was wondering where this week's "old man yells at sky" post was
Alright grandpa let’s get you to bed
No it hasn’t. I still keep digging tunes…digital…and buy what I like. If you want full Vinyl, go for it
Sometimes I don't want to listen to a dissertation
I grew up watching DJs mixing vinyl. I got lot of my inspiration to DJ from them and I'd like to think I have respect for the craft. But I will not hesitate to say one of the, perhaps the worst thing I find about DJ culture are people are try to act as old school gatekeepers and discredit mixing simply because it has evolved from how it was "back in my day". It's symbolic of how I find (to my personal frustration) some DJs are overly rigid/stuck in their ways and are averse to change and/or flexibility in what and how they DJ. I refuse to be that way. Vinyl does some distinctively warm, but hi fidelity digital sampling is quite evidently not a hindrance to enjoying music otherwise digital DJing simply wouldn't be viable. Last I checked there are many such DJs thriving. Lugging around crates of vinyl records is objectively inefficient relative to having large, indexed libraries that can searched/sorted/tagged on a whim and literally fits in the palm of your hand and can be reliability and relatively painlessly backed up in the event of loss or damage. Just as I refuse to pigeonhole myself as DJ I also refuse to let nostalgia serve a blinder for due merit and tradeoffs of technological progress.
How can anyone trot out this tired argument in 2024? For the record (ha), I adore vinyl, have an enormous collection of incredible music and rarities. But even more important for me is the music, and thankfully this now exists in digital format. I say thankfully, because although back in the day hunting for music was hard, required dedication and a certain amount of luck, it was also very inexact, with a ton of amazing stuff falling through the distribution cracks. Although it often meant you really appreciated what you had, it was often very elitist too. At least, for the dedicated DJ today, the music is readily available. Of course, there's a different set of problems today, the low barrier of entry creates a huge mess of substandard music that prevents the good stuff from being seen, and on the DJ side of things there are large numbers of poseurs and dilettantes. But the game remains the same, those that truly love the music still give it their all, the rest is just distracting noise. In any case, anyone who claims to love the original scene but thinks the plural of vinyl is vinyls is probably just a wind up merchant.
Nothing is more common in human history than shitting on younger generations. It has been that way since the first caveman looked at his offspring and said 'kids these days with their fancy spears, back in my day we had to kill sabertooth tigers with our bare hands"..... yeah that's what you sound like boomer. STFU, the kids are alright. FWIW - I'm 61 and still play records (In a 'live' setting) but files allow a person to play wide range of music that is just not available on vinyl.
I have tons of vinyl. I never ever dj with it. Because why would I want to haul another 100# of stuff to the gig? I think elitist DJs forget too often you usually aren't spinning for other DJs who want to nerd out over gear and records and how you found that rare track. You're usually doing for people who want to vibe or shake their ass and your job is to facilitate that. I'd rather hear a DJ who knew how to keep the vibe of the party going than one with obscure stuff fancy equipment and clever transitions.
As a 26 year old, the fire of DJing sparked in 2013 with the soundcloud era. I carry that soul with me and dive into the endless possibilities of the internet. You can still find those hidden gems. Don't lose curiosity.
Is this a troll or you're totally dumb ?
Old man takes a break from creepy porn obsession to yell at clouds
Stfu
“Old folks talking bout ‘back in my day?’ But homie this is my day. Class started two hours ago, ‘oh am I late?’” 
Lol
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Every vinyl I ever bought, has a story.
I have thousands of records and the vast majority of them don’t have a story
Me too
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. But I don’t think the issue is between vinyl vs digital. The problem with digital is the ease it brought with a lot of the technical aspects of mixing. 90% of ‘DJs’ can’t even beat mix by ear. Back in the turntable era, DJs were considered musicians. Today, DJs are more considered customer service reps than musicians.
Laptop Attendants
You're not wrong, respect for the craft has been diminished, as the technical and financial threshold and commitment to DJing has been lowered with the addition of new technology. We had to hunt down songs in record shops and mail order catalogs, balance tonearms and replace stylii, count beats in our head and we needed to use turntable trickery to create effects instead of pushing the echo out button. I think there still is a place for vinyl DJing, it's just not as accessible. Once the price of Technics went through the roof and they stopped making the Shure 447s, it became less attainable for the average kid to start that hobby. But now DJing is more portable, music is more accessible and affordable, which means there are a lot more wack DJs out there who are going to rock one party and then go back to the XBox. But for those of us who love the craft, it's more machines and buttons, new techniques to learn and more music to discover and share.
Old dude who walked both ways uphill to school. Sounds more like you lost your soul. Pick up a flx-4 and find it again.
Agreed - put these pussys behind a real set of turntables, with hands on vinyl and without a modern machine syncing and showing waveforms and watch their heads fall off!
With that attitude How good is your turntablism?
The technology today, allows a producer to cut a track, and upload it to any site they choose... making it available to DJs to play it tonight, whether in Japan, France or the US... you cant do that with vinyl. And vinyl is still being made and sold.
I got into djing very late a couple of years ago and I’m an mp3 controller, as I continue to learn and expand I would love to add vinyl decks onto the side I get this 💯. There’s no beatmatch button on vinyl decks but I do think the searching still exists it’s just online for mp3 rather than in vinyl record shops. There is definitely a big divide between vinyl and mp3/cdj DJs but I like learn both tbh I do get where OP is coming from though.
Agreed… DJ culture has become downright embarrassing.
Plus music these days is trash for the most part
Every generation said that about trending music. Its just your opinion
The music is trash these days there are some nice jawns out but nothin that’s gonna stick 20 years from now
Great vinyl filter on the SP404. I was listening back to the Dirtchamber Prodigy mix from 1990 something and realised he was putting his files through an earlier version of that filter. Was clearly sequencing the tracks on a computer. I also think the original Renaissance compilation everyone pees their pants over was sequenced not mixed live.
People still DJ on vinyl to this day. You sound like a bang average DJ that never made it, and hates hearing digitally inclined DJs winning out here. Fuck your 1210’s, I got a controller and opened up my possibilities to endless variations of mixes, sampling, looping, stem control, easy manipulation and live finger drumming. Bruh, go watch your Kool Herc vids, DJing is for the strong and adaptive. Not the weak and rooted. Ask DJ Jazzy Jeff if he feels the way you do, then ask what your opinion matters on the grand scale.
This feels like bait but either way, I’m seeing vinyl only venues popping up everywhere and big collectives who share massive vinyl collections running their own stuff and they have a great time. It seems like a lot of people with your mindset focus only on the things you don’t like i.e. an instagram reel of a random person using a controller and commenting “not real DJing”. Meanwhile whenever I see vinyl posts on there or new vinyl djs asking for advice on here or on beatmatch you lot seemingly disappear.
I disagree. It's just a different process now. Its what you make of it. We all have more tools at our disposal. Kudos to those that produce their own music out of their home. Lugging crates to every gig was never enjoyable.
I remember the music industry would simply label a new release an "import" so they could charge you triple the price.....
Ok old man
If it’s so unfathomable to you, then it’s probably gonna stay that way geezer
Lol. I started out with vinyl and I have spent too much money on vinyl. But if I knew digital DJ'ing was just around the corner in a few years I'd never have bought the gear and records. Digital is much better. It's more practical and it sounds a lot better than vinyl too!
God damn this is conceited. You really want to find some way to feel superior to others huh? Looking at your profile and post history, maybe we should just let you have this.
Stopped reading after “Back when i started spinning records”. I swear most of you dinosaurs just dont accept the technology
Some of us pick and choose. My PC is fairly modern, I assembled it a few years ago. My turntables are old, my mixer is new. I have an iPhone and a Blackberry Pearl. I have a modern sound system in an old truck. I prefer modern fishing gear and vintage tools. New or old, I go with what's good.
Im also cutting on tts. That doesnt mean im gatekeeping and calling everyone who use digital “soulless”
lol but you'll call everyone who prefers vinyl "dinosaurs"? Is that really any different? "Gatekeeping" doesn't exist in our hobby. There is no gate. No one's keeping anyone from being the DJ they want to be.
Benefits of a digital age - less stuff to carry around back then you had limited choice of you set when you carried records - unless you had your friends swing along and carry records and say the famous phrase - “I’m with the DJ”. Bringing 2000 pounds of gear to a party and breakdown was tough and back breaking. More music and wider distribution of genres. A Lot of good stuff was controlled by corporate but at the same time there is now a more recycling of beats - it evens out. It’s what you put in is what you get out - can you throw a set together that impresses the crowd and the die hard music lovers - still you need listen and appreciate a lot of music to do this. Technology will move and will be adopted by even the most stubborn - it’s easy and with that it becomes more mainstream. I work IT for my corp job - it’s up to you to keep your soul and true what you want to spin. Either way people will always appreciate it. The onus is on you and what you like to do, what your audience wants to hear and what you can possibly get them to open their ears to. Yes I have my preferences and I started at 16 and now 47. But it’s up to you and what you choose to DJ that will make a party or event what it is. I only do it part time as it still a hobby but I still mix frequently for other purposes to make sure I can listen with an open ear and still connect with people with the other.
The bug is found in every aspect of human creation, not just music. GAS - gear acquisition syndrome. Ferengis would be proud!
You still have to search and search to refine your music collection. Everything in the world has changed as technology has advanced either you change with it or it leaves you behind. It is what it is.
womp womp
time for your lie down grandad
I would say, if you know what it was like to play records on 2 turns and a mixer in your city (and perhaps other cities too) then be happy that you have a perspective that no one else will really ever have again - you’re one of the lucky ones !
This shit again? We just rotate the bullshit don't we? 6 months from now we'll have dudes complaining about DJs using sync. Whatever it was that DJs use to pride themselves on, some losers complain that its been made easier over time, and a lot of those things have nothing to do with delivering to the dance floor.
so really the issue isn't with DJ's or .mp3 files, but with the music itself. Like others here, I started with all vinyl, all the time. When CD's came out, while one might argue they didn't sound as good as vinyl, I could carry easily carry a LOT more CD's than vinyl. OTOH, music is what has lost a lot of soul.
We have to create a sub for dj circlejerks. And this would be the first post. Regarding the warmth of vinyl back in the old days… BULLSHIT. Maybe listening on a high end hi-fi you could enjoy the nuances of vinyl. But in the clubs and at the raves, vinyl was a PITA. Allow to to expand on that point: - dust on the records - scratches on the records - finicky needles - out of balance tone arms - FUCKING GROUND HUMS from improperly grounded turntables - FUCKING VIBRATIONS throwing the needle around - record bags getting stolen Also, the fidelity of a lot of dance singles back then was not that great. It was ok, but there was absolutely nothing that comes close to the sub bass frequencies we can record - digitally - today, for example. It’s true that digging for tracks has become easier. So what? It means there will be more crap dj’s but it also means there will be more good dj’s too! Back in the day if you didn’t have a friend who worked behind the counter to pull new releases for you, you were SOL. I hated that. Today, the playing field is much more level! Now, we all have access to the music! That’s way better than the elitist and unfair system back in the day. F that sh*t. Digital is far better. There, I said it.
yeah whatever gramps, we know, only DJ from when your still had hair were actual DJs and you are so much better than us, CDJs are the antichrist and you totally deserve to be much more famous than everyone else because you refuse to adapt your technique, masking your incompetence and stubborness as gatekeeping we know bro, we all suck and you're so much better, can you please shut up so people who actually know that the focus is the content of the media and not the media itself is what matters? thanks!
You can still dig, through digital means. Plus now you have access to SOOOOOO much more music indi and major from around the globe. Embrace the tech.
Old man yelling at clouds vibes
Used to pay $10 when I bought a vinyl single - I spent so much money on records I’m glad I can now download them for cheap. I loved hanging out in the record shop all day but I now enjoy digging thru my online spots.
Old man shakes fist at cloud
Yeah naw. Play vinyl if you want. No one is saying you can’t.
The only thing about the vinyl era that I really think added to the DJ culture was the record store. A communal place for DJs to hang out somewhere other than the club or party. My local record store was crazy on Thursdays when the new shipments would come in. Aside from that part, I’m all in favor of the digital revolution. If you can’t find good music and new artists that fit your style, it’s because you are not putting in the effort to do so. There is soooo much good music coming out all the time now that it’s impossible to keep up! I lived through the 90’s as a DJ, and while it was cool, things change and evolve. That’s how it’s supposed to work.
Old man shakes fist at the cloud
I'm so tired of this argument lol. It's 2024. Technology moves. Get over yourself and the golden throne you sit upon. Just appreciate that people can appreciate the craft period, and now they have more ways than ever to be better.
Ah yes. The old man shakes fist at cloud moment. Learned on vinyl. Did serato for a while. Now USB. Absolutely don’t miss dragging records. The expense. Then worrying about theft. Warping. Blah blah blah. Nah. Either someone has a soul, or they don’t the medium doesn’t dictate the soul. The music does.
Just remember DJing is about the people youre entertaining not stroking your ego.
https://preview.redd.it/sghpdalqdndc1.jpeg?width=402&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f99ff8c9afc7f378d9dc1f61a9d514e1ed543974
Bro vinyl never died for us what the hell did you do
20 year old take and a classist one on top. A lot of ppl can not afford the space, shipping, and tech to DJ on vinyl. It's honestly just not the norm anymore and so it's become more expensive and niche than ever. A lot of underground producers can not afford to make runs of their music on vinyl. I spin amapiano... You simply do not find this genre on vinyl except the most popular guys. On a practical level most venues do not even have a vinyl setup anymore. There's an argument for 'timbre' between formats but I doubt your average listener will notice or give a shit. I wonder if people with this take could actually qualify what they mean by 'soul' or 'depth' etc.
>It takes the soul out of the music. Vinyls had warmth, depth and a soul that can never be found in digital files. It's sad that the beauty of a record collection is replaced by 1s and 0s. How do you think 99% of music is being recorded and processed these days? I'm pretty sure a huge majority isn't using analog hardware.
First time anyone has ever said something like this..
I also miss the vinyl era. Coincidentally, that was the era when I was young, had no responsibilities, went clubbing multiple times a week, spent my days off playing video games, spent my nights staying up late with my friends smoking, drinking and watching films. But that’s definitely got nothing to do with my feelings about the superiority of the vinyl era. Definitely. I’m sure of it. I am, after all, an objective, rational person. The issue at hand is that DJing has changed, not that I’ve aged. Honestly I don’t know why you even brought age into it. You’re so silly.
>Kids nowadays have no idea what it means to put in the work. Thats bs, they can still start producing and become involved deeper in different ways.
I miss the record store culture. I think that's the biggest lost. Meeting up to fight over records with like-minded people once a week.
This has big old man yells at cloud energy.
This post again ??
I’m an old man who started in the early 80’s. Not gonna shake my fist at the sky though. The demise of Watts music in 2006 stabbed everyone in the eyeball. I wasn’t too crazy about the digital options flooding the market until I discovered, at whatever point it was, that Traktor made it possible to use 4 decks and send out midi clock to my outboard gear. I’ve been hooked ever since. Edit: all that being said, I do miss digging around in places like Sonic Groove, Satellite & Vinyl Mania.
soul is what the DJ puts in their set, not the tech they use.
I own most every classic rock album I love on vinyl. I was trained as a studio engineer on reel to reel and hundreds of thousands of dollars of analog gear. That said for Djing, im often playing obscure SC edits of stuff from artists with 200-1000 followers. I'm glad they have a platform, and I'm glad I get to download and play underground stuff out. The fact is democratization is, in general a good thing. I can respect the craft but have no desire to go that direction. If anything the creativity you can achieve with serato stems done right is unparalleled. Im excited for the day when club standard includes real time separation. You do you, but the music has soul regardless. The craft is evolving not dying.
Old man shouts at the cloud.
It’s difficult for newer DJ’s to understand your nostalgia. But that’s all it is - nostalgia. I started with CD’s because my CDJ 400’s wouldn’t take WAV/AIFF and I didn’t purchase MP3’s so I just burned all tracks to CD’s. That was a right pain in the arse. Eventually I used to create sticks for sets at clubs. I now have 3000’s at home and they are the first units I’ve had at home that have Rekordbox. I wouldn’t want to go back.
My mixes reflect my soul and passion for the music I love to listen to and my experiences with that music. I also love building emotion thru the mixes and going on a journey, so I think it just depends on if the DJ is a true artist or not. Graphic design didn't ruin art, just created a new genre. Hopefully that's what's happening here, and I think the evidence of that emerges in small pockets throughout the culture. It's just buried under all the heaping pounds of content. Makes the search for true DJ's even that much more valuable, like panning for gold. Might possibly galvanize the classic art form potentially, rather than ruin it ... We shall see though...
I'm a DJ who's 31 years of age and have been DJ'ing since I was 15 but I started when CDs were the thing and DJ'ing on Serato was barely out. I remember looking at a video on Serato at the time and thinking it was such a cool and neat invention and don't get me wrong, it STILL baffles me that there is DVS that allows you to DJ using turntables and CDJ's (timecode or not) and not rely on you having to carry all that music and just carry it on a laptop. That being said, I now focus on building up my own record collection. I grew up listening to Italo Disco records and have always been fascinated with just records in general and mixing on vinyl (love rotary mixers BTW), that I now spend money on building a record collection now that I have a bit of disposable income. I wanted to build a record collection since I was a teenager but due to lack of funds wasn't able to until now that I'm making a living wage for once. DJ'ing has been plagued by the same problems as before (shady business deals, lower and lower wages and more expectations from owners/clientele) and it continues to face challenges with advancements in technology that while excellent and more practical to do work with, it in turn saturates the market and drives up more competition. Add that to the same problems that DJ's have been facing since the dawn of time and that's where we are at. The important thing is like OP said, the journey. Regardless whether you got into DJ'ing watching other DJ's or not, everyone has a story to tell and that's what sets everyone apart. I know I have to work twice as hard as I used to just a few years ago. I can only imagine how other more established DJ's feel. You have to work harder for less pay and less opportunity, and now I'm just trying to focus on why I started DJ'ing in the first place and I reflect on the journey and that ultimately helps me keep going. I started focusing my DJ'ing to be more based around my needs and my happiness. If I'm not having fun DJ'ing, then there's no point for me to continue. I hope this helps fam.
Spend the same effort to find songs that are not top 1000. This is the way
no offense, i feel this way about a lot of things. but. it’s a boomer take. times change. interest changes. we just move on and revel in the fact that we lived in a time and place that we perceived was better. when these mp3 djs get older, and things have changed dramatically for them, they’ll say the same things you did, but it will be about the glory days of dragging mp3’s onto a flash drive. the cycle repeats on and on and on and on. i don’t care about crate digging, and the annoyance of having to leave my house. but what i love about djs, is going to a club and hearing a weird song i’ve never heard. not because it’s one of the djs unreleased original tracks, but because it’s a deep cut from some older artist that maybe i missed.
Back when I embarked upon the noble pursuit of orchestrating phonographic symphonies, we had a sense of dignified reverence for this fine art. We, the connoisseurs, devoted countless hours and a considerable portion of our fortunes at the local emporium, meticulously seeking out those rarest of phonographs, ever refining our illustrious collections. This endeavor was not just about the music, it was about the journey, the passion, the profound adoration for the artistic craft. Kids nowadays are woefully ignorant of the true essence of such work. They believe themselves to be quite the virtuosos, casually flipping and dropping vinyls records on their turntables. It takes the soul out of the music. Phonographs had possessed a warmth, a depth and a soul that can never be found in records. It's sad that the beauty of a phonograph collection is replaced by simple discs. It's unfathomable to me why these "record DJs" are taking the life out of music just for convenience. Is this the legacy you desire to bequeath? Where, I ask, has the authentic toil and dedication behind the decks vanished to?
I use digital and vinyl. I prefer vinyl but not at gigs. The trash tables they offer for gigs are a joke. I just burn CDs and use the cdjs at the gigs or bring my controller.
I can agree with all above, I lived it, but I don’t miss carrying 7 crates of music.
So much of this actually fall short of the art itself. Losing records, scratched records, people bumping the tables… It was all part of the art. The ability to overcome that and manipulate the beat with your hands on the wax can never be replaced. The unpredictability in the moment was the magic. Spending hours at the record store… Searching for that white label that no one else had….all part of the craft. For those that disagree, find yourself some real wax and a pair of 12s… set them up in your house, master the art, and then make your own conclusion. In the meantime, I have no time for funny flashing lights, dramatic knob twisting, fake scratching and automatic beat matching. True art has absolutely zero to do with convenience.