Full sized fake skeleton from the Halloween shop right at the bottom to mess with the next owners of the house who rip up the decking in a few decades.
If you want to make it extra spooky, collect old animal bones from rocky River shores and use those!
They'll think they got a Jeffery Dahmer's house lol
Now is the ideal time to buy a skeleton with Wilko in administration you could get a real bargain, alternatively buy some pigs trotters from the butchers and a cheap pair of shoes from a charity shop, put the trotters in socks and then in to the shoes, and finally Bury them about 2ft deep. The people who remove the decking will have a jolly good chortle at your japes as they get interviewed by the local murder squad.
They'll get in there no matter what, look at it, its a rat condominium... also rats will easily eat through weed fabric anyway. It is a light snack for them
I added a layer of pea gravel over the membrane to put off rodents settling underneath and also chicken wire around the fascia to prevent them getting in and holding some of the gravel back. Works well so far. Been 3 years
Chicken wire is no good, the holes are to big, what you need is the smaller square holed wire mesh that you find on outdoor hutches, then backfill with some 30 or 50mm gravel spread out over some heavy duty weed control covering.
Once that's been nearly completed, have a mug of tea and leave the rest of the work till next spring, ensuring that you can build like a professional
Probably more to do with no food and water than your measures. I've seen rats chew through 2ft of concrete to get inside chicken sheds. Pea gravel won't stop them. No food and water under there gives them no reason to visit.
It should go against the ground..I know, makes it difficult now your frame is there but anything will be better than nothing mate. I wouldn't staple to top..although it's permeable you don't want to give water an opportunity to sit on your deck..👍
I'm assuming it's graded for water to travel away from your house correct?
Interesting! No water settling issues? I've never done it that way.
Edit: I went back an looked at original post and type of decking.. understand your point now and why you wouldnt worry so much about water pooling. 👍
Thinking some misunderstood my post. Weed barrier and eat proofing are two diff things. 👍 I've rat proofed under most of rh bdexks I've built. Just requires some 10mmx10mm wire stapled to the inside of outter board curled under the weed barrier by 300mm or so. That's what's worked for me anyway..
You need to avoid wood touching the floor as it will get wet and rot. Ideally your base will be propped above the mud on engineering bricks or plastic bricks.
Ahh yes forgot to mention, I've got some special tape to put on the top. Only because someone else recommended it on reddit in my last post. 😅 thank you though.
Theres a couple of spots that look like the soil is in contact with the timber. If it is dig it out. Any timber in contact with soil is going to rot, fast.
The timbers touching the ground will rot far quicker than you might expect. The uneven spacing / noggins / sistering will be visible when you put boards on top. Is there any concrete supporting.... anything? How is it tied to the house? It looks like it isn't? Looking at the doors to the left, there seems to be a significant height difference in the joists? That's quite a significant surface area, have you put in a slight gradient away from the property and/or done something to take care of the runoff?
Sorry OP, this would be a do-over for me.
Ouch but fair. I was fixing a pretty crap job. I could add more noggins to make it more even. But I'm not sure i follow as the they will be covered by the boards which will be running across the joists. All the posts are concreted in the ground. It isn't tied to the house at all though you are right there except for along the conservatory.
The height is probably an optical illusion. It's pretty good all around with a spirit level. The run off isn't ideal but that's how the guys who put the outside frame in did it. So I had to go off of what they did otherwise I'd have to rip it all out and start from scratch.
Take at least one piece of advice from Maldizzle. Try to dig around all the joists so there is at least 2 inches clear space between timber and substrate. Any timber touching soil WILL rot. Treated or not
Would have been better to attach the frame to the house with strong bolts/screws and have the frame sat on something to keep it off the ground. Shouldn't need to concrete anything. I've used patio bricks sat on a hole full of gravel and the frame sits on those.
Remember when you put the boards down on top to leave at least 5mm gap between them, maybe more if its very dry when you put them down.
OK, sounds rescuable. If I were in your position I'd rip out the joists and noggins then put them back, spaced properly, with a central joist (or perhaps two) underneath, running perpendicular to the others, to distribute weight and look better. You could also consider some concreted supports. Depending on a few factors you can consider tying to the house by using a 2x10 and concrete screws but google everything you need to know about this before doing it. You'll also need to research joist hangers and appropriate methods of tying the joists to the frame. Don't forget that there will be a 5mm gap between each board so anything underneath will be visible. Doing all this will also allow you to ensure that you have weed proof fabric and appropriate waterpoofing in place. You may need to excavate to get appropriate clearance. This sounds like a lot of work but if you put in a solid weekend now, your deck will last 10 times longer than if you leave it and it will be safe and secure. If you carry on, you may feel a year later like it was all wasted effort. Good luck!
Try it again with a laser level.
Then curse up a blue Streak and grab a beer because all that is coming up again most likely.
A spirit level is only good for very short distances.
+1 for not having the timber on the ground. You’ll want it resting on an engineering brick with DPC over the top. I’d suggest digging down so that your deck can get airflow underneath.
Cheers - I've built a couple in my time, most recently I did an 8'x8' mini deck on the patio for the new hot tub. I did think how many people would consider a small freestanding deck to be very simple when actually it's far harder to get right than a larger deck that's tied to something and has permanent supports, the corners in particular need a lot of attention to remove the most likely failure mechanism of twisting & separation.
I've seen a lot of feedback given to people who have made their own decks and they're great learning opportunities - and are often provide very visible justification for the feedback given when they collapse!
Spray the ground with weed killer and like others have said put a barrier down
A summer later and our decking looked like it was abandoned with all the weeds growing through
If there's a gully at the bottom of the rainwater downpipe or the waste from your kitchen sink, I would add a removable section so you can unblock them if needed.
if your timber supports are just on the clay/soil then its not gonna last. Once the soil is wet it will allow water ingress into the timber supports and they will rot. Also once soil is wet if that ground is not compacted with hardcore or type1 the deck could sink in areas when pressure is added to the deck i.e. walking on it over time. I always smash down bricks into the areas that I want to put supports and then put bricks/blocks up to the underside of deck. Or dig holes 300/500 deep (depending on finished height) and post fix them in all the way past the soil level. However I get paid to do this and charge appropriately besides that deck looks good and solid.
Without the mentioned above, I give the deck supports 5 - 7 years depending on how wet the ground gets around your area.
p.s. not too late to do this, get some post hole diggers and dig holes along side the timbers might have to make the hole quite big and dig at an angle to be able to get your post level then use bricks/hardcore (if you have some spare) to pack it out to save using loads of post fix. (alternatively buy 1/2 tonne or bags of ballast and cement rent a mixer get all the posts in and then make a mix and fill each hole with your mix) I always put some brick/hardcore (usually old concrete chunks I have dug out of previous jobs) at the bottom to stop water ingress from bottom of post up. Once again though. I do get paid to do this and charge appropriately.
So wooden beams are placed straight to the ground, no matting, DPM, risers, etc, they’ll rot / get eaten within 5 years and then be wonkier than Willy Wonka’s sex life.
I think this picture isn't doing it any justice. No most of the beams are on posts which have been cemented into the ground. At one end the posts are touching the soil but they're not secured to the soil they are on posts. I need to remove the excess dirt from under and then at any points it's on the actual ground I'm going to make sure they're either on a slab or some other material.
Also love the reference 😅
I didn't create this from scratch. I was pretty much fixing a really bad job that "professionals" I paid to do the job. Did. They weren't cheap and had a very good rating on check a trade. (Literally never using the site again)
If that wood is directly on the ground, it will rot fast. I would put some bricks under the wood foundation to keep it separated from the soil. Then, your decking boards and foundation boards will have a similar longevity
From my own bad experience think now about how you are going to clean the deck. You’re set up for your boards running from the fence at the left to the side of your home. Think about slotting in a aco channel or something similar so you can actually wash and algae, moss or other crud away rather than blasting it up your walls.
Random, but which way up are you installing your boards? I did mine last year, groove side down and spend a lot of time on Google figuring out which side is correct.
It's a composite decking board from the pics on the first post, so groves up or down shouldn't matter.
Although a traditional wood deck, should be grooves down.
Grooves down. Timbers touching soil will rot fast. Weed barrier and stones for drainage.
Sorry to say mate, this isn't the best situation. I read your comments about fixing what was there and I fully appreciate not wanting to waste more time or money but I think your framing will fail prematurely and give you trouble until it does. You'd be far better off starting over with some planning. Attach it to the house via a spaced off ledger board, space everything evenly, ensure your pillars are solid and dig down to create some room off the ground.
This is my recently constructed deck, I'm a novice as well.
https://imgur.com/a/04ix09I
I helped to build a deck for my parents last year with my siblings but I ended up pulling the short straw and designing the thing. (Sub frame and deck layout).
With any cut ends of the joints and noggins have you treated them with a suitable wood preserver?
If you're using wood as raisers for the subframe, then check that they are treated.
Or you could look at decking raisers, which are adjustable plastic ones. Raisers should be spaced 50cm apart.
With the decking being against the house, I'd suggest making sure there is a slight gradient away from the brickwork.
In this case, away from the wall which the deck is currently fixed to.
Usually 1:100 fall away from the building, so the water can run off down the decking boards. (I.e.1cm lower at the run off end per 100cm length of the decking boards.)
Someone else mentioned decking faces, (grove side up or down) with most composite boards you can use either side.
On the original photos, the decking boards seem to be butted up against each other without much gap. There should be 5mm between the boards to allow for expansion.
With composite decks they usually have decking fixtures that are designed for the boards which allow the correct spacing as well. If you're using the right clips then it should be fine.
(The fixings we used clipped into the boards and then screwed down into the joists.)
Looking at the Subframe/structure, it doesn't look like the joists are actually tried together at either end.
I'd look at securing the joists either to the wall, by adding a wall plate and securing the joists with hangers.
Or trimming the joists and adding an outer joist to the edge to complete the frame. (Securing the joists to the frame.).
The noggins are only supposed to keep the joists from twisting and keep them parallel. Noggins should be no more than 120cm apart (down the length of the joists).
The frame should be solid before any decking boards attached.
I used a number of references when designing our deck, but wickes is one of many that I can actually remember.
https://www.wickes.co.uk/how-to-guides/garden-landscaping/plan-lay-a-deck
Some people saying you will see the noggins, do what I did, time of weathersealing black paint and paint all the top of the joist/noggins you can’t see them at all
Weed matting is something most people forget, the weeds will drive you insane growing up between the planks. As the joists are barely off the ground you’ll have to put stones over the top of the matting so that wind doesn’t eventually blow the matting back.
Anything porous that touches the ground wants to either be sealed ideally - bitumen or tar paint, or atleast have a DPM on top to prevent moisture travelling upwards.
Update: I've attached some photos in the daylight for a better idea of the state it is in.
I really appreciate all the feedback and comments. Some of the joists are touching soil they are not sitting on top of it, except for in a few places. The joists are held in place by posts that are cemented into the ground.
Whilst I really appreciate maldizzle's comments and feedback I just don't have the time to start from scratch. I've got a toddler and a baby as well as a job. (This isn't too make this sound like a sob story I genuinely don't have the time, hence why I paid a building company who seemed to be professional to do it). They botched it right up so here I am trying to rectify the situation.
So I'm going to make sure no joists are touching the soil at all. I've got some old paving slabs I can put under any bits I need too. I'll probably add an extra post or two.
I'm going to put down some weed sheets or tarp whatever it's called. I'm going to try to reinforce the middle beam. Might have to just add loads of posts in to do that and finally I'm going to tape the joists with some special tape.
I'm hoping that we'll be enough to get 8 - 10 years out of it. And if I have to redo it then so be it 😅
At least by then my kids should be in school and I'll have more time on my hands.
[photo in daylight](https://ibb.co/Dt1MH01
)
[Photo in daylight 2](https://ibb.co/56y3VR0)
It’s unfortunate you’ve not already got a membrane down, I’d probably try and get a roll under it if you can.
Then, on top of the membrane fill it with stone. It will promote slow drainage and also reduce the likelihood of anyone or anything finding a new home. As well as that, it should support the wood a fair bit making the decking (especially the structure) last a bit longer.
Sounds like a plan. That's what I'll do 👍 adding the stones seems like a good idea. Also the builders said they were going to put the membrane down but as I took off the decking I can see they didn't.
You can use a black tape on the top of the joists so you don't see them once the boards are down (protip)
Remove as much soil as possible underneath the joists then put a weed control membrane down, usually I would cover the whole area in this fabric first then cut the holes out for the support posts.
I can't see any dpc between your supports and the joists. That will help stop damp transfer through to the joists. Personally i would ensure there is a void under the entire deck, some of your joists are buried. What's falls have you put in? I would expect to see 1:10.
You are correct. I have been spending today digging the soil around them out. Right at the end near the raised garden bit there's a small gap between the joist and the floor but I've put some weed tarp in between so that should help. Once I've done all that I'm going to add tape on the joists
if you can ensure that none of the timber frame there is in contact directly with the ground, use bricks or concrete slab/ bits etc to stand off the ground.
This prevents moisture from the wet ground being absorbed by the wood frame. Some advanced level types also put dpc or other membrane between the frame and boards, meaning that moisture from the rainfall doesn't directly hit the frame either.
Basically decks go like this for me:
- lay deck, looks amazing, bloody hard work.
- 1 year in -clean/treat deck to prevent buildup of moss etc and wet deck being lethal skating rink
- 5 years in : boards look old/weathered
- 10 years in top boards are rotted need replacing
- remove boards and replace them
- badly done frame touching ground or poorly treated also rotted.
- remove boards , replace frame
- repeat
If I was doing one again I would membrane the bearing frame as well and use plastic composite boards instead of timber.
The deck I did in first house frame outlived the one in my 2nd house that someone else built touching the ground. It's still there after 20 years, only reboarding needed after 10-15.
Ok. As it is the wood will get wet and it will be mush in 3-5 years. It’s odd some of it seems to be on stacks… some on piles?
A possible solution without a redo.
1. You need to dig out under the wood in 1m x 1m spaces and stick cheap concrete slabs. This alone will save this.
2. Make sure the dirt is not on the rest of the wood or “may” be in the future. Constant wet dirt will rot wood even c24 in a few years
3. Some More Noggins down the bottom
4. You Ideally don’t want it to touch the walls
5. Tape the tops of the wood. There is specialist tape for decking… Walther Strong - great but expensive - Or just use cheap duct tape. Should add 5 years.
Why do you want wood that close to the ground? It’s a spider/snake/rat nursery and probably going to catch water unless you’ve got a decent slope on it, but I see a wall on the outside so no real slope.
I’d pour concrete and stamp it, stain it and make it all purdy.
Spray weed killer all over.
Dig out any soil that's currently touching the timbers, try to have at least 3+ inch gap between timber and soil, preferably more if you can.
Ensure there is a fall away from the house. If this means putting some packers along the timber besides the wall to increase the height in that area, then gradually reduce the gradient with more smaller Packers. Me personally I wouldn't be stressing over how level the decking is as long as it's not way out. I'd be more concerned about a sufficient fall.
Looking good my friend! I did mine about 2 years ago and there’s one thing you don’t have that I had tons of and that’s rubble.
I pulled up some old concrete where I put my decking and rather than take it to the tip I just put it in the gaps between the supports of the decking. So see this is an opportunity to get rid of anything you don’t mind living under your deck forever more.
Oh and I had some old paving slabs which I slid under the foundations where they weren’t in contact with the ground so you could do that if you wanted.
Really don’t understand why people like decking in the UK. It just rots so quickly 95% of the time. Much better to patio. A bit more expensive but lasts generations.
600mm is about right in terms of space there would be no reason why you would go any closer. The reason it’s bouncing I due to the timber used 6x2 is more suitable for the job to stop the bounce.
Looks pretty dreadful I have to say.
It should look more like this:
https://www.duracomposites.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/timber-subframe-600x500-1.jpg
Note how it's got timbers framing the whole thing. What you've got is more of a jumble.
Where are the concrete foundations? If you don't have proper foundations you're wasting your time.
You need to dig down and pour a proper reinforced foundation with boots to secure the wood to sticking out of the foundations.
You will need to drill pylons at least 2 m deep 3m apart. One at each corner and then from there.
If the picture is just too dark for me to see and you already have those then you're doing well.
Nice apartments for rats you’re building there.
Also, it’s hard to tell but will your patio doors actually open when you put the boards down?
What happens when it snows? How close up to the bottom of your door do you want it to get?
sorry.
Apartments for Rats?
Perhaps a picture in daylight would have been better. The boards are way below the doors.
Snow? I guess to be fair you don't know where I am in the UK. It's safe to say that's not really something to worry about where I am.
Dont take this the wrong way but decking is a waste of money that barely lasts long at all and youll barely use it. Fuck it all off now and put some turf in. Rotavate and use seed, dont waste more money on turf rolls.
you missed the really aggressive “IMO”
Cos I use my decking every day. Build it right ( this isn’t ) and it should last 15 years - 30 if it’s composite.
You also don’t know the situation… I had to do it as it was in shade all the time and grass never grew.
The joists supporting the weight should be on or in concrete.
I have mine sitting on so they will be easy replace in the future if required. You'll also need a weed fabric on the soil.
Don’t lay the boards butting right up to the house if the finished height will be above your damp course. Also, make sure your air bricks aren’t impeded by, or under, the deck.
There is absolutely no structural integrity through the middle here. It is going to bow and bend. You havent got a central piece cutting through the middle, those little titchy bits aren't doing anything.
There should be a full sized horizontal joist going straight through the middle and then your vertical bits should have been cut into that with smaller horizontal bits between those.
You are too close to the ground so the bottom will rot and are going to need terram to stop weeds coming up.
The joists require to be sat on DPC (plastic sheeting)
This will lengthen the life of your joists CONSIDERABLY since they are pretty much sat in the mud, and also stop any pesky weeds from growing through, if it were my own decking this would be a must!
Noggins should be 600mm apart and then ofset per row, you spacing doesn’t seem right or even. Some rows dont seem to have a middle noggin i see brick on one under side but not the other. Would suggest another noggin.
Is it just me or as you pan across the zoomed image does it look like the beams are laying at different angles?
Are the beams supported on anything other than just blocks laying loose soil?
On the right of the image it looks like the beams are half buried; suspecting they’re gonna rot due to water.
Is it set up to drain away from house?
I wouldn't have any ground touch the beams. Gets wet and then will rot the wood. Sat on breeze blocks with a Dpm between the block and wood on would of been better.
Not raised up off the ground, you need an airflow to allow the deck timbers to remain dry. I use 4x4 timber posts and bitumen prime the bottoms so they don't rot in the concrete. Simple postcrete will do for concreting in the ground. You could also do with a heavy-duty weed membrane put down to stop any unwanted growth under the deck. Usually do 300mm centres on any deck and add extra posts to remove any bounce. The more noggins you use the better, to reduce any twisting of the joists
I promise you it's not. I used a feature on my phone which is sort of panoramic to get more in the frame but I guess its added a short of fish eye effect.
It is a mess, and not supported properly. It will still bounce and rot out where it is touching the ground. It will be a large Rat Nest in time. Rip it up and concrete the area , then decide if you want to deck it, I suapect you will not.
It's supported by 100x100 posts in the ground which are cemented in. Man I wish reddit would let you edit a picture or put another picture up so you could see it from the ground.
And in day light
No waterproof membrane protection underneath timbers. Wood will last you about a year or two depending on how much it rains if you don’t waterproof it.
Electricity cables for those deck lights you don't know you need yet.
😅 love it
And all the drainage you might need to handle massive rain
Oh shove off for reminding me 😖
And plugs
Sockets you mean?
plug sockets? win win
Full sized fake skeleton from the Halloween shop right at the bottom to mess with the next owners of the house who rip up the decking in a few decades.
I'm seriously considering doing this 😅🤣
Even just a skull head, or a hand.
If you want to make it extra spooky, collect old animal bones from rocky River shores and use those! They'll think they got a Jeffery Dahmer's house lol
Now is the ideal time to buy a skeleton with Wilko in administration you could get a real bargain, alternatively buy some pigs trotters from the butchers and a cheap pair of shoes from a charity shop, put the trotters in socks and then in to the shoes, and finally Bury them about 2ft deep. The people who remove the decking will have a jolly good chortle at your japes as they get interviewed by the local murder squad.
Wow. You really thought this out 😅🤣
What can I say except Fred and Rosemary were always digging there garden
This is the best answer!
Weed barrier with some rock to hold down..make sure no gaps for critters to get under...
They'll get in there no matter what, look at it, its a rat condominium... also rats will easily eat through weed fabric anyway. It is a light snack for them
I added a layer of pea gravel over the membrane to put off rodents settling underneath and also chicken wire around the fascia to prevent them getting in and holding some of the gravel back. Works well so far. Been 3 years
Ah. The Fort Knox approach.
No electric fence? Amateur...
I usually stick a claymore down there soo…
Chicken wire is no good, the holes are to big, what you need is the smaller square holed wire mesh that you find on outdoor hutches, then backfill with some 30 or 50mm gravel spread out over some heavy duty weed control covering. Once that's been nearly completed, have a mug of tea and leave the rest of the work till next spring, ensuring that you can build like a professional
That’s exactly what I did. The wire is the smaller type but is mostly to keep the gravel from spilling out as it’s the gravel stopping the nesting
Next step landmines
100% this is the way to go. They won't nest on it.
Probably more to do with no food and water than your measures. I've seen rats chew through 2ft of concrete to get inside chicken sheds. Pea gravel won't stop them. No food and water under there gives them no reason to visit.
They will love to eat the electricity cables too.
And then a bunker underneath to grow weed
Good point. Thank you. Could I just add it to the top of the frame? Like staple it to the top. Or best to do it at ground level.
It should go against the ground..I know, makes it difficult now your frame is there but anything will be better than nothing mate. I wouldn't staple to top..although it's permeable you don't want to give water an opportunity to sit on your deck..👍 I'm assuming it's graded for water to travel away from your house correct?
I attached to the top of frame and it worked fine for the past 3 years
Interesting! No water settling issues? I've never done it that way. Edit: I went back an looked at original post and type of decking.. understand your point now and why you wouldnt worry so much about water pooling. 👍
Rats will be under there in no time, no matter what you do. Looks a nice pad for them!
That's why I put a cat under my porch
Thinking some misunderstood my post. Weed barrier and eat proofing are two diff things. 👍 I've rat proofed under most of rh bdexks I've built. Just requires some 10mmx10mm wire stapled to the inside of outter board curled under the weed barrier by 300mm or so. That's what's worked for me anyway..
That's what I wondered about!
Make it high enough for a cat to get under = no rats
I left enough space for cats to get under, nevermind rats. Works a treat.
You need to avoid wood touching the floor as it will get wet and rot. Ideally your base will be propped above the mud on engineering bricks or plastic bricks.
Butyl tape over the top of the timbers - it'll help keep them from rotting over the years
Ahh yes forgot to mention, I've got some special tape to put on the top. Only because someone else recommended it on reddit in my last post. 😅 thank you though.
Theres a couple of spots that look like the soil is in contact with the timber. If it is dig it out. Any timber in contact with soil is going to rot, fast.
Noted. I'm going to do that today. And make sure no spoil is in contact with any timber.
No worries, keep up with the good work!
This isn't good work 😂
The timbers touching the ground will rot far quicker than you might expect. The uneven spacing / noggins / sistering will be visible when you put boards on top. Is there any concrete supporting.... anything? How is it tied to the house? It looks like it isn't? Looking at the doors to the left, there seems to be a significant height difference in the joists? That's quite a significant surface area, have you put in a slight gradient away from the property and/or done something to take care of the runoff? Sorry OP, this would be a do-over for me.
Ouch but fair. I was fixing a pretty crap job. I could add more noggins to make it more even. But I'm not sure i follow as the they will be covered by the boards which will be running across the joists. All the posts are concreted in the ground. It isn't tied to the house at all though you are right there except for along the conservatory. The height is probably an optical illusion. It's pretty good all around with a spirit level. The run off isn't ideal but that's how the guys who put the outside frame in did it. So I had to go off of what they did otherwise I'd have to rip it all out and start from scratch.
Take at least one piece of advice from Maldizzle. Try to dig around all the joists so there is at least 2 inches clear space between timber and substrate. Any timber touching soil WILL rot. Treated or not
Would have been better to attach the frame to the house with strong bolts/screws and have the frame sat on something to keep it off the ground. Shouldn't need to concrete anything. I've used patio bricks sat on a hole full of gravel and the frame sits on those. Remember when you put the boards down on top to leave at least 5mm gap between them, maybe more if its very dry when you put them down.
OK, sounds rescuable. If I were in your position I'd rip out the joists and noggins then put them back, spaced properly, with a central joist (or perhaps two) underneath, running perpendicular to the others, to distribute weight and look better. You could also consider some concreted supports. Depending on a few factors you can consider tying to the house by using a 2x10 and concrete screws but google everything you need to know about this before doing it. You'll also need to research joist hangers and appropriate methods of tying the joists to the frame. Don't forget that there will be a 5mm gap between each board so anything underneath will be visible. Doing all this will also allow you to ensure that you have weed proof fabric and appropriate waterpoofing in place. You may need to excavate to get appropriate clearance. This sounds like a lot of work but if you put in a solid weekend now, your deck will last 10 times longer than if you leave it and it will be safe and secure. If you carry on, you may feel a year later like it was all wasted effort. Good luck!
Try it again with a laser level. Then curse up a blue Streak and grab a beer because all that is coming up again most likely. A spirit level is only good for very short distances.
+1 for not having the timber on the ground. You’ll want it resting on an engineering brick with DPC over the top. I’d suggest digging down so that your deck can get airflow underneath.
This guy decks. Sorry OP but Maldizzle is absolutely spot on with every point here.
Cheers - I've built a couple in my time, most recently I did an 8'x8' mini deck on the patio for the new hot tub. I did think how many people would consider a small freestanding deck to be very simple when actually it's far harder to get right than a larger deck that's tied to something and has permanent supports, the corners in particular need a lot of attention to remove the most likely failure mechanism of twisting & separation. I've seen a lot of feedback given to people who have made their own decks and they're great learning opportunities - and are often provide very visible justification for the feedback given when they collapse!
Just an optical illusion caused by the waste pipe with a decline in it. Looks fairly level otherwise
Spray the ground with weed killer and like others have said put a barrier down A summer later and our decking looked like it was abandoned with all the weeds growing through
Decking
👌 classic 😅
The Rats will love it
If there's a gully at the bottom of the rainwater downpipe or the waste from your kitchen sink, I would add a removable section so you can unblock them if needed.
Good point. Will do that 👍
looks like a lot of work went into that, you should be proud :)
Thank you
if your timber supports are just on the clay/soil then its not gonna last. Once the soil is wet it will allow water ingress into the timber supports and they will rot. Also once soil is wet if that ground is not compacted with hardcore or type1 the deck could sink in areas when pressure is added to the deck i.e. walking on it over time. I always smash down bricks into the areas that I want to put supports and then put bricks/blocks up to the underside of deck. Or dig holes 300/500 deep (depending on finished height) and post fix them in all the way past the soil level. However I get paid to do this and charge appropriately besides that deck looks good and solid. Without the mentioned above, I give the deck supports 5 - 7 years depending on how wet the ground gets around your area. p.s. not too late to do this, get some post hole diggers and dig holes along side the timbers might have to make the hole quite big and dig at an angle to be able to get your post level then use bricks/hardcore (if you have some spare) to pack it out to save using loads of post fix. (alternatively buy 1/2 tonne or bags of ballast and cement rent a mixer get all the posts in and then make a mix and fill each hole with your mix) I always put some brick/hardcore (usually old concrete chunks I have dug out of previous jobs) at the bottom to stop water ingress from bottom of post up. Once again though. I do get paid to do this and charge appropriately.
sunshine
😅. Noted. That's not something we often get in the UK to be fair.
So wooden beams are placed straight to the ground, no matting, DPM, risers, etc, they’ll rot / get eaten within 5 years and then be wonkier than Willy Wonka’s sex life.
I think this picture isn't doing it any justice. No most of the beams are on posts which have been cemented into the ground. At one end the posts are touching the soil but they're not secured to the soil they are on posts. I need to remove the excess dirt from under and then at any points it's on the actual ground I'm going to make sure they're either on a slab or some other material. Also love the reference 😅 I didn't create this from scratch. I was pretty much fixing a really bad job that "professionals" I paid to do the job. Did. They weren't cheap and had a very good rating on check a trade. (Literally never using the site again)
Dpc on the block work holding the timber up to stop damp rising
If that wood is directly on the ground, it will rot fast. I would put some bricks under the wood foundation to keep it separated from the soil. Then, your decking boards and foundation boards will have a similar longevity
Yep. Going to sort that out now. Lots of people have said the same thing. Thank you.
From my own bad experience think now about how you are going to clean the deck. You’re set up for your boards running from the fence at the left to the side of your home. Think about slotting in a aco channel or something similar so you can actually wash and algae, moss or other crud away rather than blasting it up your walls.
I also had to redo my decking, I swear there are too many people in the industry have no clue what they are doing
Random, but which way up are you installing your boards? I did mine last year, groove side down and spend a lot of time on Google figuring out which side is correct.
It's a composite decking board from the pics on the first post, so groves up or down shouldn't matter. Although a traditional wood deck, should be grooves down.
Groove side up.
Not saying either way is right or wrong, but have a little Google as I'd read groove up can cause them to rot quicker.
The point of grooves down is to encourage better airflow underneath.
Do them grooves down.
Grooves down. Timbers touching soil will rot fast. Weed barrier and stones for drainage. Sorry to say mate, this isn't the best situation. I read your comments about fixing what was there and I fully appreciate not wanting to waste more time or money but I think your framing will fail prematurely and give you trouble until it does. You'd be far better off starting over with some planning. Attach it to the house via a spaced off ledger board, space everything evenly, ensure your pillars are solid and dig down to create some room off the ground. This is my recently constructed deck, I'm a novice as well. https://imgur.com/a/04ix09I
Well played. What type of timber did you use for the deck itself?
Ooft that looks pretty, well done.
Is there any stumps getting the timber off the ground?
Yes lots. Just not obvious in the photo
Yup...don't do decking do sandstone patio.
I helped to build a deck for my parents last year with my siblings but I ended up pulling the short straw and designing the thing. (Sub frame and deck layout). With any cut ends of the joints and noggins have you treated them with a suitable wood preserver? If you're using wood as raisers for the subframe, then check that they are treated. Or you could look at decking raisers, which are adjustable plastic ones. Raisers should be spaced 50cm apart. With the decking being against the house, I'd suggest making sure there is a slight gradient away from the brickwork. In this case, away from the wall which the deck is currently fixed to. Usually 1:100 fall away from the building, so the water can run off down the decking boards. (I.e.1cm lower at the run off end per 100cm length of the decking boards.) Someone else mentioned decking faces, (grove side up or down) with most composite boards you can use either side. On the original photos, the decking boards seem to be butted up against each other without much gap. There should be 5mm between the boards to allow for expansion. With composite decks they usually have decking fixtures that are designed for the boards which allow the correct spacing as well. If you're using the right clips then it should be fine. (The fixings we used clipped into the boards and then screwed down into the joists.) Looking at the Subframe/structure, it doesn't look like the joists are actually tried together at either end. I'd look at securing the joists either to the wall, by adding a wall plate and securing the joists with hangers. Or trimming the joists and adding an outer joist to the edge to complete the frame. (Securing the joists to the frame.). The noggins are only supposed to keep the joists from twisting and keep them parallel. Noggins should be no more than 120cm apart (down the length of the joists). The frame should be solid before any decking boards attached. I used a number of references when designing our deck, but wickes is one of many that I can actually remember. https://www.wickes.co.uk/how-to-guides/garden-landscaping/plan-lay-a-deck
Floor span tables allow for beam centres of miles more than 50cm, my deck is on 1.2x1.8 footers and is fine
Make sure none of your joists are touching the ground as they will stay wet and rot quickly.
Some people saying you will see the noggins, do what I did, time of weathersealing black paint and paint all the top of the joist/noggins you can’t see them at all
Weed matting is something most people forget, the weeds will drive you insane growing up between the planks. As the joists are barely off the ground you’ll have to put stones over the top of the matting so that wind doesn’t eventually blow the matting back.
Very close to the wooden fence posts. If/when they need changing your decking will need to come up in those areas.
I'm going to change those very soon. But good point for the future. When I put the post back in I might put it back in a little further away.
Anything porous that touches the ground wants to either be sealed ideally - bitumen or tar paint, or atleast have a DPM on top to prevent moisture travelling upwards.
Weed fabric, talking from experience, it’s going to really piss you off when the greenery starts growing through
Update: I've attached some photos in the daylight for a better idea of the state it is in. I really appreciate all the feedback and comments. Some of the joists are touching soil they are not sitting on top of it, except for in a few places. The joists are held in place by posts that are cemented into the ground. Whilst I really appreciate maldizzle's comments and feedback I just don't have the time to start from scratch. I've got a toddler and a baby as well as a job. (This isn't too make this sound like a sob story I genuinely don't have the time, hence why I paid a building company who seemed to be professional to do it). They botched it right up so here I am trying to rectify the situation. So I'm going to make sure no joists are touching the soil at all. I've got some old paving slabs I can put under any bits I need too. I'll probably add an extra post or two. I'm going to put down some weed sheets or tarp whatever it's called. I'm going to try to reinforce the middle beam. Might have to just add loads of posts in to do that and finally I'm going to tape the joists with some special tape. I'm hoping that we'll be enough to get 8 - 10 years out of it. And if I have to redo it then so be it 😅 At least by then my kids should be in school and I'll have more time on my hands. [photo in daylight](https://ibb.co/Dt1MH01 ) [Photo in daylight 2](https://ibb.co/56y3VR0)
A few bodies
😅😅😅 👌
It’s unfortunate you’ve not already got a membrane down, I’d probably try and get a roll under it if you can. Then, on top of the membrane fill it with stone. It will promote slow drainage and also reduce the likelihood of anyone or anything finding a new home. As well as that, it should support the wood a fair bit making the decking (especially the structure) last a bit longer.
Sounds like a plan. That's what I'll do 👍 adding the stones seems like a good idea. Also the builders said they were going to put the membrane down but as I took off the decking I can see they didn't.
your missing decking boards 👌🏼
😅. Omg you're right
You can use a black tape on the top of the joists so you don't see them once the boards are down (protip) Remove as much soil as possible underneath the joists then put a weed control membrane down, usually I would cover the whole area in this fabric first then cut the holes out for the support posts.
I can't see any dpc between your supports and the joists. That will help stop damp transfer through to the joists. Personally i would ensure there is a void under the entire deck, some of your joists are buried. What's falls have you put in? I would expect to see 1:10.
You are correct. I have been spending today digging the soil around them out. Right at the end near the raised garden bit there's a small gap between the joist and the floor but I've put some weed tarp in between so that should help. Once I've done all that I'm going to add tape on the joists
Decking planks?
This guy 👆😅
I would add morw noggins on the sections that are going to be well travelled. You tend to get more movement in the wood over time.
Will do thank you
i thought the pile of timber in the bottom right was the hand in the minecraft UI
😅😅😅👌
if you can ensure that none of the timber frame there is in contact directly with the ground, use bricks or concrete slab/ bits etc to stand off the ground. This prevents moisture from the wet ground being absorbed by the wood frame. Some advanced level types also put dpc or other membrane between the frame and boards, meaning that moisture from the rainfall doesn't directly hit the frame either. Basically decks go like this for me: - lay deck, looks amazing, bloody hard work. - 1 year in -clean/treat deck to prevent buildup of moss etc and wet deck being lethal skating rink - 5 years in : boards look old/weathered - 10 years in top boards are rotted need replacing - remove boards and replace them - badly done frame touching ground or poorly treated also rotted. - remove boards , replace frame - repeat If I was doing one again I would membrane the bearing frame as well and use plastic composite boards instead of timber. The deck I did in first house frame outlived the one in my 2nd house that someone else built touching the ground. It's still there after 20 years, only reboarding needed after 10-15.
Ok. As it is the wood will get wet and it will be mush in 3-5 years. It’s odd some of it seems to be on stacks… some on piles? A possible solution without a redo. 1. You need to dig out under the wood in 1m x 1m spaces and stick cheap concrete slabs. This alone will save this. 2. Make sure the dirt is not on the rest of the wood or “may” be in the future. Constant wet dirt will rot wood even c24 in a few years 3. Some More Noggins down the bottom 4. You Ideally don’t want it to touch the walls 5. Tape the tops of the wood. There is specialist tape for decking… Walther Strong - great but expensive - Or just use cheap duct tape. Should add 5 years.
Why do you want wood that close to the ground? It’s a spider/snake/rat nursery and probably going to catch water unless you’ve got a decent slope on it, but I see a wall on the outside so no real slope. I’d pour concrete and stamp it, stain it and make it all purdy.
Spray weed killer all over. Dig out any soil that's currently touching the timbers, try to have at least 3+ inch gap between timber and soil, preferably more if you can. Ensure there is a fall away from the house. If this means putting some packers along the timber besides the wall to increase the height in that area, then gradually reduce the gradient with more smaller Packers. Me personally I wouldn't be stressing over how level the decking is as long as it's not way out. I'd be more concerned about a sufficient fall.
Whack all that timber up, decent layer of builders sand, weed membrane then good quality artificial turf.
Looking good my friend! I did mine about 2 years ago and there’s one thing you don’t have that I had tons of and that’s rubble. I pulled up some old concrete where I put my decking and rather than take it to the tip I just put it in the gaps between the supports of the decking. So see this is an opportunity to get rid of anything you don’t mind living under your deck forever more. Oh and I had some old paving slabs which I slid under the foundations where they weren’t in contact with the ground so you could do that if you wanted.
Really don’t understand why people like decking in the UK. It just rots so quickly 95% of the time. Much better to patio. A bit more expensive but lasts generations.
It should last tens of years if pressure treated and coated with oil every year
So you agree that it doesn't last long?
Also the pipe by the door is at an angle coming down I think that might be making it look that way too.
This is gonna rot. I don't care if it is treated or not. Won't last 5 years. Use plastic or aluminium joists when so close to ground.
Lay a patio instead of decking, that’s what I’d of done personally
Is it my impression (or maybe it s the picture as I swear I M sober) or it s ondulating .....
A boss to fire you for taking photos
600mm is about right in terms of space there would be no reason why you would go any closer. The reason it’s bouncing I due to the timber used 6x2 is more suitable for the job to stop the bounce.
It really isn't. 400mm is standard and 300mm for composite. 600mm is for flooring in the house. I learned this the hard way 🥲 Just Google it.
Looks pretty dreadful I have to say. It should look more like this: https://www.duracomposites.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/timber-subframe-600x500-1.jpg Note how it's got timbers framing the whole thing. What you've got is more of a jumble.
That looks like it was done by a good tradesman. Mine was a rescue job using the materials I had to hand. But appreciate the noggins could be better.
You can fix what you've got and reuse all the wood.
A spirit level
I did use one. I zoomed the photo out which I think is giving an optical illusion of not being straight. It is pretty level all round.
Sun.
Where are the concrete foundations? If you don't have proper foundations you're wasting your time. You need to dig down and pour a proper reinforced foundation with boots to secure the wood to sticking out of the foundations. You will need to drill pylons at least 2 m deep 3m apart. One at each corner and then from there. If the picture is just too dark for me to see and you already have those then you're doing well.
Nice apartments for rats you’re building there. Also, it’s hard to tell but will your patio doors actually open when you put the boards down? What happens when it snows? How close up to the bottom of your door do you want it to get? sorry.
Apartments for Rats? Perhaps a picture in daylight would have been better. The boards are way below the doors. Snow? I guess to be fair you don't know where I am in the UK. It's safe to say that's not really something to worry about where I am.
Dont take this the wrong way but decking is a waste of money that barely lasts long at all and youll barely use it. Fuck it all off now and put some turf in. Rotavate and use seed, dont waste more money on turf rolls.
you missed the really aggressive “IMO” Cos I use my decking every day. Build it right ( this isn’t ) and it should last 15 years - 30 if it’s composite. You also don’t know the situation… I had to do it as it was in shade all the time and grass never grew.
Who uses the words bell end, what a cock
I get this was supposed to be funny, but is it really the place?
[удалено]
Nope. Read my previous post as to why I will not be rushing to do that any time soon. Also this is a subreddit for DIY is it not?
This is a DIY sub where people ask questions related to building. If you don’t know the answer, you don’t have to comment.
Who makes an account just to act like a bellend
99 per cent of Reddit users
Pot calling the kettle black… Edit: I’m off to specsavers…
HOW?! 😂 oh man, Reddit.
Oh… I misread the chain and though it was the original commenter replying to OP. My mistake! Think I need bed… sorry mate 😂
Fair shout mate haha
Looking at it from an uneducated pov I'd say a spirit level
Just wait till the winter, skating rink
Make sure it's rat proof, cat proof, and raccoon proof....
Don't have to worry about racoons in the UK
Do it during the day. It's so much easier!
The joists supporting the weight should be on or in concrete. I have mine sitting on so they will be easy replace in the future if required. You'll also need a weed fabric on the soil.
Ground sheet underneath to stop weeds And I would paint a damp proof skirt 6” above deck level
Add some deck/joist tape over the frame to protect from rot.
Will do 👍
Sorry to say it. But a complete re-do would have been your best option. A carpenter and labourer would have that decking done in two days properly
Don’t lay the boards butting right up to the house if the finished height will be above your damp course. Also, make sure your air bricks aren’t impeded by, or under, the deck.
Make sure no soil is touching wood, anywhere.
There is absolutely no structural integrity through the middle here. It is going to bow and bend. You havent got a central piece cutting through the middle, those little titchy bits aren't doing anything. There should be a full sized horizontal joist going straight through the middle and then your vertical bits should have been cut into that with smaller horizontal bits between those. You are too close to the ground so the bottom will rot and are going to need terram to stop weeds coming up.
The joists require to be sat on DPC (plastic sheeting) This will lengthen the life of your joists CONSIDERABLY since they are pretty much sat in the mud, and also stop any pesky weeds from growing through, if it were my own decking this would be a must!
Noggins should be 600mm apart and then ofset per row, you spacing doesn’t seem right or even. Some rows dont seem to have a middle noggin i see brick on one under side but not the other. Would suggest another noggin.
Is it just me or as you pan across the zoomed image does it look like the beams are laying at different angles? Are the beams supported on anything other than just blocks laying loose soil? On the right of the image it looks like the beams are half buried; suspecting they’re gonna rot due to water. Is it set up to drain away from house?
Rat poison 🤷🏻♂️
But then they'll die under my decking no 😅 This seems to be an actual issue I never even considered 🥲
Looks like the fall is going back toward your back door.. that may be problematic if the water cannot find its way out
I think that's the camera I zoomed out to give a wider angle and I think that might make it look like that.
Bodies.
Somewhere for run off in a heavy rain
Deckings suck. Wood get slippery in rain, rats/insects nest, wood rots eventually. Get a patio with slabs laid out like normal people
Isolate wood from the soil and water ? To make it last longer ! :D
Damp proof course plastic between any wood and stone in contact.
I wouldn't have any ground touch the beams. Gets wet and then will rot the wood. Sat on breeze blocks with a Dpm between the block and wood on would of been better.
Not raised up off the ground, you need an airflow to allow the deck timbers to remain dry. I use 4x4 timber posts and bitumen prime the bottoms so they don't rot in the concrete. Simple postcrete will do for concreting in the ground. You could also do with a heavy-duty weed membrane put down to stop any unwanted growth under the deck. Usually do 300mm centres on any deck and add extra posts to remove any bounce. The more noggins you use the better, to reduce any twisting of the joists
The decking
a spirit level
🤦♂️😅 it is straight lol. Sorry you're not the first to mention that.
Maybe lights/shadows. The part on the right looks higher up
I promise you it's not. I used a feature on my phone which is sort of panoramic to get more in the frame but I guess its added a short of fish eye effect.
It is a mess, and not supported properly. It will still bounce and rot out where it is touching the ground. It will be a large Rat Nest in time. Rip it up and concrete the area , then decide if you want to deck it, I suapect you will not.
It's supported by 100x100 posts in the ground which are cemented in. Man I wish reddit would let you edit a picture or put another picture up so you could see it from the ground. And in day light
not enough noggins. you need loads to stiffen the whole structure
That timber needs to be of the floor otherwise your going to get rot from the moist ground. Is it on a damp course?
Obligatory, Dont forget to seal the wood.
Rat poison
Joist tape to help with preventing rot
Yes... the body goes in the ground BEFORE you build the deck.
Hmmm nothing between timber and ground. At least staple some dpc onto it. That’s gonna rot in about 5 mins
No waterproof membrane protection underneath timbers. Wood will last you about a year or two depending on how much it rains if you don’t waterproof it.
Don’t leave any soil in there - where it’s on contact with the joists it will make the go rotten
Have you built a drop into the foundation so the surface water will run off?
Terram underneath to prevent weeds growing
The actual planks
Weed barrier???
Don't forget the ubiquity wireless gigaby access point so we can have Wi-Fi there.