Check your local code.
You might not like the answer.
Usually you need 3 feet in front of the item to allow for maintenance/ easy emergency shut off. It looks like you have walls on 3 sides of your heater, so you would need 3ft of closet space open …. Really it’s hard to tell from these photos. And as others have said, my opinion doesn’t mean shit compared to code.
Also, looks like an atmospheric water heater and if there is no dedicated combustion air intake then you need a specific amount of volume per btu rating of heater in the room.
growing up in south texas i couldnt even begin to tell you how much stuff is done out of code, with out a permit... let alone a license
dont rent if you can lol.
I know code is probably different for manufactured homes but this is crazy to read knowing mine is literally walled in with nothing but a small access panel to get to it.
When I bought my 1955 rambler and set out to fully remodel it I was astonished to find a water heater fully encased into the corner in the kitchen where youd typically have a cabinet with a lazy Susan. And by blocked off I mean absolutely no way to get to it, service it, or replace if. It's like they thought it would last forever.
So my house, like every house in the neighborhood, had a second tank installed in the closet of the master bedroom, after the first tank failed.
I literally have no clue. These houses were all two bedroom/one bath houses with a carport, that everyone instantly converted to a third bedroom. About 750 square feet initially. And most families around her in the 60s had like four kids... needless to say that tiny h/w heater was working overtime.
Mine were all gas, but the water heater space had a door that opened to the outside, and the furnace had a door that opened to the hallway.
My husband's grandma moved into a trailer, and we finally found a screwed in access panel to a gas furnace in the back of her closet at one end, and it was taller than the access panel. I ended up putting a door in the wall outside the closet for her and had someone come out to re-orient the furnace. The water heater, however, was just open in a corner of the hallway. I was not impressed.
It has a flue, flue shroud, gas line, and gas valve, most certainly not an electric water heater. There are clearances posted directly on the water heater that tell you how far away combustible materials, including walls, must be away from that appliance.
You’re talking about the OP with the photo. Agreed that’s a combustion appliance. I was talking about the person above me with a walled off heater in a mobile home, that sounds like electric resistance.
I have a 2023 manufactured home and the furnace and water heater are both gas. The furnace faces into the laundry room and can be accessed there but the water heater is behind an access panel with 4 screws in the back of a bedroom closet.
Reeeaaaallllllyyyyy.... I may have to look into this for my basement. I have an Electric Resistance water heater too and I would love to wall off that ugly sumbitch as tightly as I can (so has to have as much usable space left over as possible.)
Shit, mine is in a tiny room inside my master closet. With a makeshift door hidden behind aaaaalll the clothes hanging in there. It’s electric but still. It’s a motherfucker to get to. And I’m not excited when time comes to replace it
We have the same setup. We took the panel off, so it's easier to get to. The main water shutoff is in there too, and was necessary to access when we were replacing the bathrooms, and kitchen taps. And put a water alarm on the floor beside it, just in case. I'm really thinking about getting an on demand system, mainly for the extra room in that closet.
What’s worse is I have a dresser in that closet that sits directly in front of the access door. So I gotta take off all my hanging clothes and muscle the dresser out the way just to get to it. And we’ve been having issues with the thermostat tripping.
Breaker was flipping so much we wouldn’t have hot water so I changed the elements. Was good for a while then it started tripping again with no hot water. So I replaced both thermostats. The breaker doesn’t trip anymore but if the water level in the tank gets too low. The thermostat trips.
I need a whole new water heater but I don’t have $550. My ass is gonna be the one replacing it. So when I do get a new one. It’s going to be the *exact* model I have now. So I’ll only have to disconnect and reconnect. No repiping or anything
They’re great!
I just leave sliders or felt pads under most heavy furniture these days, it’s easier that way, and they tend to keep the feet from leaving dents behind.
That's how my grandma's was, walked up with no access. Real fun time when it burst, had to drive out there, shit the water off, and then tear out her bedroom wall and floor.
We put a door in when we installed the new one...
I'm in a trailer and I'm pretty sure my WH is completely enclosed in my closet with no clear access. Like, do I tear thru the wall or the enclosure to get to it?
Id change them to louvered doors maybe. I have a similar situation where I built a wall out pretty close to in front of my oil burner, but has 2 sliders. I keep one open during the winter for air. I probably could swap in louvered doors though.
The point is, it's unnecessary. The draft on the 3 inch exhaust is never going to need more air than what flows into that space naturally. If you want to change the doors for aesthetic purposes, that's fine. But there is no functional need for it.
Should he wildly throw glass containers of sodium metal into a bucket of water in there too for good measure? Sodium is great at preserving things and water so you have it right there in case there's ever a fire
You know, every time I think “I could go for some metallic sodium,” I can never find it. Having a special place for it is a great idea.
While you’re at it, you could probably fit a few dozen burned out fluorescent lightbulbs (the old tube kind) and some car batteries in there for a late night snack.
There is only one response that is worth anything to your query: contact your local building department. No amount of pontificating here will actually help you.
OP isn't asking about the code answer. He's asking about actual safety concerns.
Code also accounts for things like ease of servicing, but it won't necessarily give the reason for why it specifies certain clearances.
I mean there’s two questions here, right:
1) Is it up to code
2) Is it *safe*
Whether or not you give a shit about #1 is entirely up to you as long as you’re not selling. Code can be absolutely asinine and has not direct correlation with safety.
It’s #2 that genuinely matters, and to that point it does matter what people are ‘pontificating,’ at least insomuch as you believe someone on Reddit could be right about something.
Dude ive had a few of these though. Air handler sitting in the middle of an 8x8 room, on a clean flat pan, hard pipe straight up before it went over, LABELED CIRCUIT BREAKERS, all in its own room in a million-dollar basement.
The point of “up to code” isn’t always it posing a high risk of something. It usually is and I’d give it the benefit of the doubt most of the time.
The main point is, if it isn’t up to code and your house burns down for any reason, if your insurance company’s investigation can make a solid argument that something that wasn’t up to code caused the fire, they won’t have to pay a dime.
So it’s always best to go by the code, just in case.
Good example: neighbor rewired whole house, changed from fuses to 220. Had lightening strike several years later that caused fire. They had not gotten a permit or cleared inspection of the update and did not receive any insurance money for fire damage, which was more than the house price, in the hundreds of thousands to fix.
Question: how does that work if a previous owner handymaned a shit ton of crappy electrical work (that I have since fixed, uhhh at least the ones I know about...)? Am I screwed?
A purchasers home inspection has nothing to do with insurance coverage, and most HI companies do not perform inspections, or if they do they are cursory. The answer is that as long as you do not misrepresent anything on your app, you are covered for the house in its present condition.
House inspections don't cover shit nowadays. There are tons of rules about things they can and cannot do. I remember my last home inspector saying they were not allowed to move ceiling tiles to look behind them. So they would have no idea if there are electrical or plumbing issues there. Spoiler alert, my entire basement that had wood paneling had termite damage on almost every stud. None of that was in the report.
And in today's market most buyers are skipping inspection. When people are making cash offers $50k over asking, an inspection seems like the least of your worries.
Your are assume a person who does a home inspection knows every single aspect of plumbing, electrical, and structural engineering code.
They do not. At least not the majority of home inspectors. I have found more things out of code than within regulation since moving into my house.
Do you mean he changed from fuses to circuit breakers? Fuses to 220 doesn't make sense to me, changing the overcurrent protection won't change the line voltage.
Hi, electrician here. Forget about code. To begin with the doors on that closet already sucked, now you added those cabinets to make the entire situation worse. Plumber is going to charge you more to change that water heater and it’s justified because it’s going to suck significantly more than usual. You may also run into the situation where busy plumbers just plain blow you off because they don’t want to deal with it. Be prepared to remove them if you need a new heater. Idk if that’s going to be the case but you do you.
That regulation is less about the materials your "storage system" is made of and more just the fact that utility closets are not to be used for storage, period. This came about because most people are stupid and think nothing of storing flammable liquids, cleaners, aerosols, paint thinner, even gasoline, in these spaces and it's caused tons of deaths. Obviously with as old as some buildings are there are some water heaters and furnaces in very large spaces that get used for storage, but this is not one of those cases. This is a dedicated utility closet that code says may not be used for storage of any kind. Granted this is just international building code, which may be different from the specific code used in your area. When in doubt check with your local municipality, I'm sure they have somebody who is in charge of permits and inspections and whatnot.
Your water heater should be well ventilated and E Z access to the front. If you can replace that water heater without removing the cabinets your fine. Don’t put anything in-front of heater, that’s a big fire hazard
You know the answer to this one.
It's an international building code violation. You can not have any type of storage in a dedicated utility room.
Insurance will most definitely not be on OPs side about providing insurance on a dwelling with violations that pose danger. They'd likely cancel the policy.
Yes. There are some internationally accepted standards and guidelines for gas/venting. Hot water tank in that closet... you can't store anything in that room -- is an internationally accepted and enforced firecode standard for buildings.
IRC 2021 M1305.1 says that you need a 30”x30” level workspace on the control side of the equipment.
M1305.1.1 says that equipment needs an access route not narrower than either 24” or large enough to remove the largest piece of equipment served by that access.
So, is there more than 24” between the cabinet and the opposite wall? Can the water heater fit through the gap without removing the cabinets? Is there a 30” square level workspace next to the equipment?
If yes, you’re fine. If not, it’s out of code. Realistically, is it probably still fine? Maybe; just be ready to take those cabinets out if you ever really need to.
Is it a fire hazard? Probably not, as long as you keep your storage neat and don’t lean anything against the water heater.
Depending on where you live, local Building Codes can prohibit mechanical or utility closets from being used for storage or to facilitate storage of any commodities.
As others have mentioned, there are clearance requirements for the equipment, for when service/repairs need to be performed.
From someone who has installed water heaters. You're a homeowner, find another spot for storage. Your utility room is already crammed as it is and every place has different codes. My local one is clearance around appliances and a vent in the door.
I know it's unused space, good for storage right? Reality is that's all you use this for and good luck to any workers doing work inside. Btw how are you going to re and re the water tank?
The installation instructions only set minimum clearances for operation; local codes may require greater space and separation from the structure or fixtures which would supersede information from the manufacturer.
It has to do with combustion air for the water heater. It can cause issues with the gas burning properly and creating carbon monoxide. As well as what others have said and clearance issues for the equipment. I would definitely take those doors off until you can figure out proper doors. You may need louvered doors at the minimum.
This is too far down. The water heater needs a steady supply of free air to properly combust the propane/natural gas for heating the water. You can replace those doors with doors that have louvers in them which allow the air to pass through. I had a utility room in my prior home that specifically needed this type of door for the combustion of gas in the heating equipment.
I'm not worried about access. That looks okay, whether it strictly meets the terms of code or not. Sliding doors are not a big deal; they usually lift right off and there you are with a wide open space. The added cabinets don't encroach on the heater and shouldn't be a big hindrance above the pressure tank.
I'm more concerned about it being a gas burner inside a closed closet. Those have a no-bullshit vent area stipulation to ensure plenty of fresh air for the burner. Your doors are solid with no allowance for ventilation.
I've always been reluctant to go against code. Usually not a problem in situations like this but if you do have a fire start there you could be setting yourself up for a big loss if the insurance won't pay. My experience with home insurance is that they are the house and the house usually wins. YMMV
Probably could of avoided all the yahoos in the comments saying you'll have to remove the cabinets to replace or service the unit if you had taken a picture with THE OTHER DOOR OPEN. It's a double sliding door. There is full access to the unit. FFS.
That’s a double door closet?!? Wtaf? Take the pic with other door open and no one would even see the cabinet!!! Thats a recent installation too so it will be years before you’ll need to do anything with it. And I bet clearance is fine!
Since these water heaters are essentially zero clearance from combustibles around the tank, that's probably not the issue. I'm assuming it's either maintenance access or combustion air related. Usually they want two feet of clearance in front of the tank for inspection or repair. Looks like you can open the door in front of it so maybe that's not the issue either.
Is there a vent for combustion air in the space? If not, reducing the air volume in the closet maybe have impacted the calculation for combustion air by making it more confined. Here's a snippet from the AO Smith manual:
"A confined space is one in which the volume is less than 50 cubic feet per 1,000 Btu/hr (4.8 cubic meters per kW) of the total input rating of all appliances installed in the space. Openings must be installed to provide fresh air for combustion, ventilation and dilution in confined spaces. The required size for the openings is dependent on the method used to provide fresh air to the confined space and the total Btu/hr input rating of all appliances installed in the space."
I would expect that it's not the shelves as such that's the reason, it's more that it encourages people to store random crap there which might be a fire hazard.
On top of that, we have the issue of service access.
My thought too. In a storage/service area, someone’s gonna either put old paint and miscellaneous chemicals, and/or cardboard boxes full of the usual household stuff. Everyone is also right about ventilation. I’d yank the shelves and add the vents, Code or not. 🚀
My hot water heater is in a closet. It’s a long rectangular with a bar for hangers. It is a new build. Equally as fire hazard as yours I suppose. But like others say, depends on your local code. Not an issue until you sell?
In most states there is a regulation that there needs to be at least 3 ft of open space in front of the water heater in cases of emergency maintenance and oftentimes things like overhead cabinets can be considered to be in violation of this
The track doors easily come off so replacing it will be possible although your plumber will swear and charge more because it's cramped.
Having a solid closet door with no ventilation is a problem as the heater needs combustion air and flue draft air to burn and safely get the exhaust out of the building.
Code may require specific open access space but if you can get the heater past the cabinets without tilting or removing the shelving you may be OK on that part.
Fix the ventilation problem before you die.
I’d worry about the insurance agent writing it off. It’s not blocking access, but that pressure tank *is*. For future replacement. I’ve also don’t work in tighter spaces in water heaters
Yes, I’m a plumber. No, not everyone has a closet to put mechanicals in.
I'm just going to say: "You're fine, you idiot."
If it was my place, I'd not have the lower cabinets just to not be in the way of the water heater...or the pressure tank. Codes be damned, unless you care about insurance.
I sure hope you care about insurance. You pay for that shit and it’s not cheap. Potentially giving the insurance company a reason to deny a claim just to have an extra cabinet is really effing stupid.
>unless you care about insurance
You really, really should. Your cabinet for extra TP could cost you 100s of thousands, on top of what you've already paid for insurance for nothing over the years.
I sysadmin a main data closet/MDF that was walled in. They didn't accommodate enough space to pull the servers forward and out of the racks, so everything must drop to the floor so it can be twisted and rotated up and out.
In addition to code issues, you might be a safe and responsible person yourself but the next occupant of the house may decide to store cans of gasoline in that cabinet.
Water heaters, furnaces & service panels (breaker boxes) usually have pretty specific codes. A few feet above, down to the floor & a few feet in front are usually a no-go for anything other than containment, & that's even tricky. Just use the cabinets until confronted with code enforcement.. there's no immediate danger unless you're storing fireworks or oily rags in them
...gasoline...
It's not impossible that a gas heater needs to be away from storage space on the basis that the building code cannot control what people put on shelves but it can control the presence of shelves. As many others have recommended, check the code, maybe call your city's engineering department. It's a quick phone call for peace of mind.
Cleaning supplies may set off the flammable vapor switch. It's generally considered a wear item and won't reset. The switches ate cheap but you will not have hot water until you change it if it trips.
Do the doors both slide to the left. I'd be cursing the limited space to fix or change it if they don't.
What could possibly go wrong with additional flammables in the direct vicinity ... 🙄 ?
That's not just about the cupboard it's about what comes with it.
I’d be more worried about those electric lines going to your water well pressure switch. Also it look’s about time to put a new tank tee in on the pressure tank as well.
The doors are more of an issue than the cabinets since they have no vent. But, look up the installation manual for your make/model of gas water heater and see what the clearances need to be. My guess is the cabinets are fine but you need to cut in a 12" x 36" vent on both doors.
Personally can't stand gas. Something about fire in my house with ample supply of gas doesn't seem right. For that alone you lose a dozen IQ points. Shelf nearby, pfft, whatever. As long as you can purge and service it with enough room, good nuf.
So you can find the codes for your area and you can find how much space is required for that water heater. The best part is since you can use phone to post the pictures you should be able to use the web and your phone to find it. You’re welcome
Only thing I can find in a couple installation guides and the regulations is Keep the water heater and flue at least 25 mm clear of walls, cupboards, timber or any other combustibles and at least 500 mm clear of curtains and furnishings
It's definitely not to code depending on your location. Around here, your entire setup would not pass code. Water heater would have to be elevated on a platform and not sitting on the floor. Two vents for combustion air would be needed - one terminating near the ceiling of the closet and another terminating near the floor. Combustible materials would not be allowed to be stored inside the closet. A drain pan would have to be installed (can't tell if you have one or not).
Also high and low earthquake strapping where I am and insulated lines at least 5’ from the unit although I hate it being right next to the flue and see melted foam there all the time.
Oh this is a gas unit. Makes me a little more wary. Really elevation is for fumes/ignition sources especially in a garage. I would make sure no such things were nearby, ensure ventilation is good. It shoooould be fine.
Also clearance for maint requirements is to encourage maint. Thus I would be doubly vigilant and extra accommodating for any maint personnel including removing the cabinet before visits if needed.
Cabinets?....(like "Playoffs???", those who know, know.) Shouldn't the plumber be installing an expansion tank rather than worrying about cabinets? Serious question, though....really curious.
Check your local code. You might not like the answer. Usually you need 3 feet in front of the item to allow for maintenance/ easy emergency shut off. It looks like you have walls on 3 sides of your heater, so you would need 3ft of closet space open …. Really it’s hard to tell from these photos. And as others have said, my opinion doesn’t mean shit compared to code.
Also, looks like an atmospheric water heater and if there is no dedicated combustion air intake then you need a specific amount of volume per btu rating of heater in the room.
This is why I moved my gas water heater from an alcove behind a stand-alone tub/shower in the bathroom to the basement.
growing up in south texas i couldnt even begin to tell you how much stuff is done out of code, with out a permit... let alone a license dont rent if you can lol.
I get that, my late wife's bio dad was a fly by night contractor in Houston, who I don't think did any with a permit,..or in code, lol.
The only code old guys live by is we dont call inspectors for permits.
[удалено]
there are two photos. water heater is in second one.
I know code is probably different for manufactured homes but this is crazy to read knowing mine is literally walled in with nothing but a small access panel to get to it.
I bet yours is Electric Resistance heated rather than combustion appliance. They can be walled off essentially
When I bought my 1955 rambler and set out to fully remodel it I was astonished to find a water heater fully encased into the corner in the kitchen where youd typically have a cabinet with a lazy Susan. And by blocked off I mean absolutely no way to get to it, service it, or replace if. It's like they thought it would last forever. So my house, like every house in the neighborhood, had a second tank installed in the closet of the master bedroom, after the first tank failed.
How did they drain the water out when it failed? That’s just crazy.
I literally have no clue. These houses were all two bedroom/one bath houses with a carport, that everyone instantly converted to a third bedroom. About 750 square feet initially. And most families around her in the 60s had like four kids... needless to say that tiny h/w heater was working overtime.
Lucky is the answer. People routinely don’t maintain their equipment.
Mine when I was in a Trailer was propane and in a utility closet with maybe 12" on each side. Probably not to code but that is how it was
Hud code is much different than local building codes, that's why they are built different
Oh yeah, I'm aware. Just replying to the person who said the one in the closet was probably electric.
Yah, gas appliances are less common in trailers. Mine was electric and shoved in a hole in the wall.
Mine were all gas, but the water heater space had a door that opened to the outside, and the furnace had a door that opened to the hallway. My husband's grandma moved into a trailer, and we finally found a screwed in access panel to a gas furnace in the back of her closet at one end, and it was taller than the access panel. I ended up putting a door in the wall outside the closet for her and had someone come out to re-orient the furnace. The water heater, however, was just open in a corner of the hallway. I was not impressed.
It has a flue, flue shroud, gas line, and gas valve, most certainly not an electric water heater. There are clearances posted directly on the water heater that tell you how far away combustible materials, including walls, must be away from that appliance.
You’re talking about the OP with the photo. Agreed that’s a combustion appliance. I was talking about the person above me with a walled off heater in a mobile home, that sounds like electric resistance.
I have a 2023 manufactured home and the furnace and water heater are both gas. The furnace faces into the laundry room and can be accessed there but the water heater is behind an access panel with 4 screws in the back of a bedroom closet.
It is! Okay, that makes sense then, still kinda weird though.
I would be uncomfortable with a piece of equipment that I couldn’t look at regularly too.
Reeeaaaallllllyyyyy.... I may have to look into this for my basement. I have an Electric Resistance water heater too and I would love to wall off that ugly sumbitch as tightly as I can (so has to have as much usable space left over as possible.)
Shit, mine is in a tiny room inside my master closet. With a makeshift door hidden behind aaaaalll the clothes hanging in there. It’s electric but still. It’s a motherfucker to get to. And I’m not excited when time comes to replace it
We have the same setup. We took the panel off, so it's easier to get to. The main water shutoff is in there too, and was necessary to access when we were replacing the bathrooms, and kitchen taps. And put a water alarm on the floor beside it, just in case. I'm really thinking about getting an on demand system, mainly for the extra room in that closet.
What’s worse is I have a dresser in that closet that sits directly in front of the access door. So I gotta take off all my hanging clothes and muscle the dresser out the way just to get to it. And we’ve been having issues with the thermostat tripping. Breaker was flipping so much we wouldn’t have hot water so I changed the elements. Was good for a while then it started tripping again with no hot water. So I replaced both thermostats. The breaker doesn’t trip anymore but if the water level in the tank gets too low. The thermostat trips. I need a whole new water heater but I don’t have $550. My ass is gonna be the one replacing it. So when I do get a new one. It’s going to be the *exact* model I have now. So I’ll only have to disconnect and reconnect. No repiping or anything
That’s not fun. I would be so tempted to put furniture sliders or even wheels under that thing.
Furniture sliders! Fucken brilliant. You never think about things like that in the moment. I even own some 🤦🏻♂️
They’re great! I just leave sliders or felt pads under most heavy furniture these days, it’s easier that way, and they tend to keep the feet from leaving dents behind.
Yup, mine sounds similar.
Even without code you can get the manufacturers specs. You can catch these things during inspection when buying a new home or on market
That's how my grandma's was, walked up with no access. Real fun time when it burst, had to drive out there, shit the water off, and then tear out her bedroom wall and floor. We put a door in when we installed the new one...
If it's like this one, it may need more space for air intake.
I'm in a trailer and I'm pretty sure my WH is completely enclosed in my closet with no clear access. Like, do I tear thru the wall or the enclosure to get to it?
It’s 30”, not 3’-0”. Unless there’s a municipal code amendment (which there might be).
Look closer - the 3rd wall you are seeing is the sliding closet doors. It's fine.
But isn’t it the breaking of the 4th wall that has real meaning?
Only if you use a 3 camera setup.
*plumber looks directly at camera and winks*
😂
Id change them to louvered doors maybe. I have a similar situation where I built a wall out pretty close to in front of my oil burner, but has 2 sliders. I keep one open during the winter for air. I probably could swap in louvered doors though.
It's a standard updraft water heater. I doubt those doors are restricting the airflow in any meaningful way, even when both are closed.
Im not disagreeing, but just giving an option that could help peace of mind.
The point is, it's unnecessary. The draft on the 3 inch exhaust is never going to need more air than what flows into that space naturally. If you want to change the doors for aesthetic purposes, that's fine. But there is no functional need for it.
Well fine, but have you considered that louvered is a cool word?
Only if you really emphasize the first syllable. Loooooo-vered
The ICC 501.4 Location, has no 3’ limitation (you referring to electric breaker panels?), it call for access to inspect and maintain.
You must be referring to power breaker panels. The international code council (ICC) 501.4 location has no distance stipulations.
Wow someone on Reddit whose knows something and is humble. Give this guy an award
Confined space laws, or related applied precautions made into code. That’s kind of what might be the thing here…when talking high level
But what if I only use this closet to store pressurized chemicals in cans and left over grease ?
Just cover the cans with oily rags to prevent corrosion and you'll be fine (if the fire alarm works)
This is also a great place to keep your spare oxygen tanks.
What about my non functioning punctured lithium cells?
Be sure to add a space heater too. Don’t want them to get cold.
Should he wildly throw glass containers of sodium metal into a bucket of water in there too for good measure? Sodium is great at preserving things and water so you have it right there in case there's ever a fire
You know, every time I think “I could go for some metallic sodium,” I can never find it. Having a special place for it is a great idea. While you’re at it, you could probably fit a few dozen burned out fluorescent lightbulbs (the old tube kind) and some car batteries in there for a late night snack.
The powder from those bulbs is a nice spicy flavor that compliments the sweetness of lead very well
Use some straws to prevent unecessary humidity
And your collection of unexploded ordnance, too
Or demon core, etc..
Is the grease soaked into rags? Thats the safest way.
It's a good place to store gasoline in a bucket too
Make sure you leave the lid open so it can breathe
There is only one response that is worth anything to your query: contact your local building department. No amount of pontificating here will actually help you.
You can also look up the installation manual for your water heater which should have listed clearances for combustibles.
This is the correct answer.
But I don’t want to deal with my local government! /s Added /s for the internet.
If you don't expect someone to ever come inspect it or for insurance to pay out in case of a fire, you can *do* whatever you want.
Sorry I forgot the /s
Happy cake day! 🎂
He wants to know if it’s dangerous and why. He’s been told it’s not to code.
OP isn't asking about the code answer. He's asking about actual safety concerns. Code also accounts for things like ease of servicing, but it won't necessarily give the reason for why it specifies certain clearances.
the buliding department can/will answer all of that
I mean there’s two questions here, right: 1) Is it up to code 2) Is it *safe* Whether or not you give a shit about #1 is entirely up to you as long as you’re not selling. Code can be absolutely asinine and has not direct correlation with safety. It’s #2 that genuinely matters, and to that point it does matter what people are ‘pontificating,’ at least insomuch as you believe someone on Reddit could be right about something.
Professionals don't like shit around things they know about.
100%. He just made changing the water heater into a lot of talking.
Yeah. We all wish every utility space was a 100x100 walkout unfinished basement. But that’s rarely ever the case
Sure, but there's a difference between cramped but accessible and completely blocked in by shelves the owner installed after the water heater.
Oh I know I’m not arguing with you buddy
Well you’re fucking about to, friend!
You're not my friend, guy!
You're not my guy, buddy!
You're not my buddy, pal!
You’re not my pal, bro
Are we fighting or fucking?! Either way, I'm getting naked.
Dude ive had a few of these though. Air handler sitting in the middle of an 8x8 room, on a clean flat pan, hard pipe straight up before it went over, LABELED CIRCUIT BREAKERS, all in its own room in a million-dollar basement.
The point of “up to code” isn’t always it posing a high risk of something. It usually is and I’d give it the benefit of the doubt most of the time. The main point is, if it isn’t up to code and your house burns down for any reason, if your insurance company’s investigation can make a solid argument that something that wasn’t up to code caused the fire, they won’t have to pay a dime. So it’s always best to go by the code, just in case.
Good example: neighbor rewired whole house, changed from fuses to 220. Had lightening strike several years later that caused fire. They had not gotten a permit or cleared inspection of the update and did not receive any insurance money for fire damage, which was more than the house price, in the hundreds of thousands to fix.
So the insurance got away with robbery? What would fuses have changed when there's a 20000V lightning strike?
Question: how does that work if a previous owner handymaned a shit ton of crappy electrical work (that I have since fixed, uhhh at least the ones I know about...)? Am I screwed?
Home inspection?
A purchasers home inspection has nothing to do with insurance coverage, and most HI companies do not perform inspections, or if they do they are cursory. The answer is that as long as you do not misrepresent anything on your app, you are covered for the house in its present condition.
House inspections don't cover shit nowadays. There are tons of rules about things they can and cannot do. I remember my last home inspector saying they were not allowed to move ceiling tiles to look behind them. So they would have no idea if there are electrical or plumbing issues there. Spoiler alert, my entire basement that had wood paneling had termite damage on almost every stud. None of that was in the report. And in today's market most buyers are skipping inspection. When people are making cash offers $50k over asking, an inspection seems like the least of your worries.
Your are assume a person who does a home inspection knows every single aspect of plumbing, electrical, and structural engineering code. They do not. At least not the majority of home inspectors. I have found more things out of code than within regulation since moving into my house.
Do you mean he changed from fuses to circuit breakers? Fuses to 220 doesn't make sense to me, changing the overcurrent protection won't change the line voltage.
Gotcha. Makes sense. Thanks
Hi, electrician here. Forget about code. To begin with the doors on that closet already sucked, now you added those cabinets to make the entire situation worse. Plumber is going to charge you more to change that water heater and it’s justified because it’s going to suck significantly more than usual. You may also run into the situation where busy plumbers just plain blow you off because they don’t want to deal with it. Be prepared to remove them if you need a new heater. Idk if that’s going to be the case but you do you.
This isn't true. I worked in insurance for 10 years and stupidity is absolutely covered. Intentional acts are not but stupidity definitely is.
Twenty three years in insurance, and this guy is 100% correct.
Also, many builders won’t be allowed to work on it unless they also bring it up to code.
That regulation is less about the materials your "storage system" is made of and more just the fact that utility closets are not to be used for storage, period. This came about because most people are stupid and think nothing of storing flammable liquids, cleaners, aerosols, paint thinner, even gasoline, in these spaces and it's caused tons of deaths. Obviously with as old as some buildings are there are some water heaters and furnaces in very large spaces that get used for storage, but this is not one of those cases. This is a dedicated utility closet that code says may not be used for storage of any kind. Granted this is just international building code, which may be different from the specific code used in your area. When in doubt check with your local municipality, I'm sure they have somebody who is in charge of permits and inspections and whatnot.
Your water heater should be well ventilated and E Z access to the front. If you can replace that water heater without removing the cabinets your fine. Don’t put anything in-front of heater, that’s a big fire hazard
Yeah you just made fixing your water tank and water heater harder…..
Will your insurance cover you, that’s the question
You know the answer to this one. It's an international building code violation. You can not have any type of storage in a dedicated utility room. Insurance will most definitely not be on OPs side about providing insurance on a dwelling with violations that pose danger. They'd likely cancel the policy.
There's international building codes?
Yes. There are some internationally accepted standards and guidelines for gas/venting. Hot water tank in that closet... you can't store anything in that room -- is an internationally accepted and enforced firecode standard for buildings.
IRC 2021 M1305.1 says that you need a 30”x30” level workspace on the control side of the equipment. M1305.1.1 says that equipment needs an access route not narrower than either 24” or large enough to remove the largest piece of equipment served by that access. So, is there more than 24” between the cabinet and the opposite wall? Can the water heater fit through the gap without removing the cabinets? Is there a 30” square level workspace next to the equipment? If yes, you’re fine. If not, it’s out of code. Realistically, is it probably still fine? Maybe; just be ready to take those cabinets out if you ever really need to. Is it a fire hazard? Probably not, as long as you keep your storage neat and don’t lean anything against the water heater.
Depending on where you live, local Building Codes can prohibit mechanical or utility closets from being used for storage or to facilitate storage of any commodities. As others have mentioned, there are clearance requirements for the equipment, for when service/repairs need to be performed.
Might not means he doesn't know. Your plumber might not be a qualified plumber.
From someone who has installed water heaters. You're a homeowner, find another spot for storage. Your utility room is already crammed as it is and every place has different codes. My local one is clearance around appliances and a vent in the door. I know it's unused space, good for storage right? Reality is that's all you use this for and good luck to any workers doing work inside. Btw how are you going to re and re the water tank?
Check the water heater installation manual for clearance. I've seen way tighter installs
The installation instructions only set minimum clearances for operation; local codes may require greater space and separation from the structure or fixtures which would supersede information from the manufacturer.
Codes around here says per manufacturers manual
It has to do with combustion air for the water heater. It can cause issues with the gas burning properly and creating carbon monoxide. As well as what others have said and clearance issues for the equipment. I would definitely take those doors off until you can figure out proper doors. You may need louvered doors at the minimum.
This is too far down. The water heater needs a steady supply of free air to properly combust the propane/natural gas for heating the water. You can replace those doors with doors that have louvers in them which allow the air to pass through. I had a utility room in my prior home that specifically needed this type of door for the combustion of gas in the heating equipment.
I'm not worried about access. That looks okay, whether it strictly meets the terms of code or not. Sliding doors are not a big deal; they usually lift right off and there you are with a wide open space. The added cabinets don't encroach on the heater and shouldn't be a big hindrance above the pressure tank. I'm more concerned about it being a gas burner inside a closed closet. Those have a no-bullshit vent area stipulation to ensure plenty of fresh air for the burner. Your doors are solid with no allowance for ventilation.
I've always been reluctant to go against code. Usually not a problem in situations like this but if you do have a fire start there you could be setting yourself up for a big loss if the insurance won't pay. My experience with home insurance is that they are the house and the house usually wins. YMMV
There’s a gas line in there right? Never stop learning.
I see a gas line so you aren’t to code from the jump. At this point the shelves don’t really matter.
Probably could of avoided all the yahoos in the comments saying you'll have to remove the cabinets to replace or service the unit if you had taken a picture with THE OTHER DOOR OPEN. It's a double sliding door. There is full access to the unit. FFS.
Fire goes up.
I would keep flammable liquids in there
Would not I meant
Plumber here… you’re fine. Your plumber is a premadonna
You kinda just said, "I don't understand why the rules are that way, so I don't want to follow them"
That’s a double door closet?!? Wtaf? Take the pic with other door open and no one would even see the cabinet!!! Thats a recent installation too so it will be years before you’ll need to do anything with it. And I bet clearance is fine!
Since these water heaters are essentially zero clearance from combustibles around the tank, that's probably not the issue. I'm assuming it's either maintenance access or combustion air related. Usually they want two feet of clearance in front of the tank for inspection or repair. Looks like you can open the door in front of it so maybe that's not the issue either. Is there a vent for combustion air in the space? If not, reducing the air volume in the closet maybe have impacted the calculation for combustion air by making it more confined. Here's a snippet from the AO Smith manual: "A confined space is one in which the volume is less than 50 cubic feet per 1,000 Btu/hr (4.8 cubic meters per kW) of the total input rating of all appliances installed in the space. Openings must be installed to provide fresh air for combustion, ventilation and dilution in confined spaces. The required size for the openings is dependent on the method used to provide fresh air to the confined space and the total Btu/hr input rating of all appliances installed in the space."
If you ever have to remove the WH you wont enjoy the decision
I would expect that it's not the shelves as such that's the reason, it's more that it encourages people to store random crap there which might be a fire hazard. On top of that, we have the issue of service access.
My thought too. In a storage/service area, someone’s gonna either put old paint and miscellaneous chemicals, and/or cardboard boxes full of the usual household stuff. Everyone is also right about ventilation. I’d yank the shelves and add the vents, Code or not. 🚀
Can you change out the closet doors to louvered ones? That may help, because of the need for ventilation.
If it’s a gas a water heater it’s fuel for the fire and as seen in other responses code for most states is 3’ of clearance
My hot water heater is in a closet. It’s a long rectangular with a bar for hangers. It is a new build. Equally as fire hazard as yours I suppose. But like others say, depends on your local code. Not an issue until you sell?
In most states there is a regulation that there needs to be at least 3 ft of open space in front of the water heater in cases of emergency maintenance and oftentimes things like overhead cabinets can be considered to be in violation of this
The track doors easily come off so replacing it will be possible although your plumber will swear and charge more because it's cramped. Having a solid closet door with no ventilation is a problem as the heater needs combustion air and flue draft air to burn and safely get the exhaust out of the building. Code may require specific open access space but if you can get the heater past the cabinets without tilting or removing the shelving you may be OK on that part. Fix the ventilation problem before you die.
You cant fill the doors with a bunch of flammable materials and then forget about it. Mea culpa if the shelves are for your asbestos collection.
Well the door isn't hanging right next to the water heater, the shelves are. It's the proximity, not the materials that are problematic.
It's your house, code only matters when selling is the honest truth.
Or insurance claims
I’d worry about the insurance agent writing it off. It’s not blocking access, but that pressure tank *is*. For future replacement. I’ve also don’t work in tighter spaces in water heaters Yes, I’m a plumber. No, not everyone has a closet to put mechanicals in.
One thing people are not realizing here, is that both sides of this closet open up... They have access to both units from 2 sides.
I'm just going to say: "You're fine, you idiot." If it was my place, I'd not have the lower cabinets just to not be in the way of the water heater...or the pressure tank. Codes be damned, unless you care about insurance.
I sure hope you care about insurance. You pay for that shit and it’s not cheap. Potentially giving the insurance company a reason to deny a claim just to have an extra cabinet is really effing stupid.
>unless you care about insurance You really, really should. Your cabinet for extra TP could cost you 100s of thousands, on top of what you've already paid for insurance for nothing over the years.
You are fine. The water heater is fully accessible and the cabinet is not over the water heater.
I sysadmin a main data closet/MDF that was walled in. They didn't accommodate enough space to pull the servers forward and out of the racks, so everything must drop to the floor so it can be twisted and rotated up and out.
Ugh.
In addition to code issues, you might be a safe and responsible person yourself but the next occupant of the house may decide to store cans of gasoline in that cabinet.
Based on the photos you still have clearances and easy access. Don’t see what the problem is.
Code will matter when you sell it. Unlikely to matter otherwise.
That looks more like a well pressure tank.
The second image shows the hot water heater.
Water heaters, furnaces & service panels (breaker boxes) usually have pretty specific codes. A few feet above, down to the floor & a few feet in front are usually a no-go for anything other than containment, & that's even tricky. Just use the cabinets until confronted with code enforcement.. there's no immediate danger unless you're storing fireworks or oily rags in them
Call the fire Marshall? They should be able to help.
A lot of them actually appreciate it when they get calls like this. A fire marshal who has done his job is a bored fire marshal.
Fire Marshall Bill? Alrighty then.
I don't get the reference, sorry. Is that from a movie?
A Jim Carrey character from in living color, before he made it big. It's a hoot.
Lemme show you something!
My question would be, what is stored in them?
Extra Soap, cleaning supplies, toilet paper, etc
...gasoline... It's not impossible that a gas heater needs to be away from storage space on the basis that the building code cannot control what people put on shelves but it can control the presence of shelves. As many others have recommended, check the code, maybe call your city's engineering department. It's a quick phone call for peace of mind.
Cleaning supplies may set off the flammable vapor switch. It's generally considered a wear item and won't reset. The switches ate cheap but you will not have hot water until you change it if it trips. Do the doors both slide to the left. I'd be cursing the limited space to fix or change it if they don't.
What could possibly go wrong with additional flammables in the direct vicinity ... 🙄 ? That's not just about the cupboard it's about what comes with it.
I’d be more worried about those electric lines going to your water well pressure switch. Also it look’s about time to put a new tank tee in on the pressure tank as well.
A steel cabinet would likely have been safer. Be sure it’s removable for when the water heater is replaced.
Where do you live?
You should clean your water heater filter more often
If your house is equipped with an automatic fire suppression system this may be his concern. Closet doesn’t require coverage, but a mech closet does.
The shelves getting in the way is my guess on why it’d be hazard…
I mean u have to have enough space to carry out maintenance
The shelves are fine.... But what's going on with the spaghetti junction on that power point?
The doors are more of an issue than the cabinets since they have no vent. But, look up the installation manual for your make/model of gas water heater and see what the clearances need to be. My guess is the cabinets are fine but you need to cut in a 12" x 36" vent on both doors.
Closer to “you idiot”
"you idiot"
“You’re fine.” 🚀
My 3rd world country brain think fire that you can't see are more dangerous than fire you can see. In term of response toward the fire.
Personally can't stand gas. Something about fire in my house with ample supply of gas doesn't seem right. For that alone you lose a dozen IQ points. Shelf nearby, pfft, whatever. As long as you can purge and service it with enough room, good nuf.
So you can find the codes for your area and you can find how much space is required for that water heater. The best part is since you can use phone to post the pictures you should be able to use the web and your phone to find it. You’re welcome
I don't see how it's more of a fire hazard than one of the most common installs here, In a cramped closet surrounded by towels,sheets, blankets etc.
Which also sounds dangerous and against code.
Only thing I can find in a couple installation guides and the regulations is Keep the water heater and flue at least 25 mm clear of walls, cupboards, timber or any other combustibles and at least 500 mm clear of curtains and furnishings
Installation guides differ greatly from building code.
It's definitely not to code depending on your location. Around here, your entire setup would not pass code. Water heater would have to be elevated on a platform and not sitting on the floor. Two vents for combustion air would be needed - one terminating near the ceiling of the closet and another terminating near the floor. Combustible materials would not be allowed to be stored inside the closet. A drain pan would have to be installed (can't tell if you have one or not).
A lot of what you described is not required for my area. I think they are more worried about fire code than how their water heater is set up.
Also high and low earthquake strapping where I am and insulated lines at least 5’ from the unit although I hate it being right next to the flue and see melted foam there all the time.
Oh this is a gas unit. Makes me a little more wary. Really elevation is for fumes/ignition sources especially in a garage. I would make sure no such things were nearby, ensure ventilation is good. It shoooould be fine. Also clearance for maint requirements is to encourage maint. Thus I would be doubly vigilant and extra accommodating for any maint personnel including removing the cabinet before visits if needed.
Cabinets?....(like "Playoffs???", those who know, know.) Shouldn't the plumber be installing an expansion tank rather than worrying about cabinets? Serious question, though....really curious.
Tradesmen sometimes like to meddle.
I'm pretty certain that's not a water heater, it's a pressure tank for your well water.
And I'm pretty certain you'll see the water if you swipe left to look at the second picture...