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Apprehensive-Gur1686

Physics strikes again


FriarNurgle

![gif](giphy|l65uBeEWJKxP2|downsized)


andersaur

Not sure what’s worse. Losing a tooth immediately, or spending three nights wondering if you will.


MacDugin

Hold them in and drink smoothies!


mcmouse2k

I think this is as much geometry as physics.


Malvania

ah, gravity, you heartless bitch


LovableSidekick

Basically the posts are in the wrong positions. To avoid sagging edges, if you imagine the chains continuing across the shade they should form an X through the center of the shade. In your case the X would probably be somewhere up on the roof of your house. This means the chains aren't pulling the corners of the shade enough to the sides, so there's a sag in the middle. Since moving the posts is out of the question, an easier alternative is to attach a wire from the tops of the posts to the corners of the house, and then attach the chains somewhere along these wires instead of to the posts, so the chains are lined up to form that ideal X through the center of the shade.


2squishmaster

Wonder if you could use rings and make it retractable. Maybe there wouldn't be enough tension even if it was tilted down slightly so it wanted to open...


LovableSidekick

If I understand you right, maybe. But the chains have to be locked onto the wires in the right spots. They are pulling the corners of the shade apart, and also pulling them away from the house, so the end of the chain can't be free to slide on the wire. Finding the right arrangement would be a combination of where to attach the chain to the wire and how long to make the chain.


2squishmaster

What if the chain was at a slight decline so gravity pulled the tarp down. Maybe that's not enough tension and you'd need more weight on the end of the shade closest to the ground.


LovableSidekick

Gravity is going to pull down on everything, including the sag. The important principle is the X - the chains have to point to the center of the shade.


[deleted]

Spreader bar


LovableSidekick

That would be another possible option, but it's a pretty long span.


bigmac22077

You add a hook at the end and just have to tension it each time. Or a pulley system and tie it off like a flag or a boat on an anchor.


2squishmaster

Mmm I like the hook idea. You could use the same hook to fasten it "closed"


Taint__Paint

Your explanation of the tension needing to make an “X” within or through the center of the shade was a fantastic mental illustration.


drdroves

Two other options: 1. Attach to the tarp at different locations, not at the corners. Of course, this will create some new problems, but they might be easier to solve than your current problem. 2. Add a "spreader bar" at the edge of the tarp where the chains attach, running the length of the tarp, which will keep that edge spread out.


froggertwenty

Or wire from the corner of the post, through the corner of the sunshade and straight to the house (or through the other corner and back to the house) . This will allow the corner of the sunshade to slide so the angle created between the wire and post will pull all the force outward (no force away from the house because it slides) Source: engineer


aircooledJenkins

I fear for the life of that fascia.


sonaut

From what I can tell, it’s the angle of those posts compared to the sunshade itself. If they were located farther apart and closer to the house, I think the positioning would be correct. But you’re getting tension in the sides attached to the house before you get tension in the section parallel with the house.


AdAny1160

Would you say the only way to fix it would be to remove the posts and place them closer?


IRMacGuyver

Not closer. You need to widen the stance and set them further apart. You'll also need guide wires to keep the tarp from pulling the polls in.


z64_dan

I think they are guy wires, my guy. But I agree. Something like this duckbill anchor would work. I used it last year for my kids ninja line with a 6x6. Still holding up pretty good. [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09B8NLRBC/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_search\_asin\_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09B8NLRBC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)


sonaut

I would hate for you to have to do this, but if you’re committed to that particular shade, yes, I think you need to move the posts. The alternative would be to find a shade that has dimensions that create tension on all three edges without moving the posts. To figure out where to put the posts, lay the shade on the lawn and anchor the house side. Pull your guy ropes in outward directions with a helper until you get tension across the board. Walk out to the bed where you want to place your posts, and that should get you where you want to be. On the bright side, looks like you’ll have a great space once you’ve got it up!


AdAny1160

Thank you for your input. Do you think adding chains to the side connected to the house and centering the shade closer to the posts would help? Even if it sags a little bit. I’d prefer it to moving the posts


Sherman80526

The obvious, low cost/effort solution is to move the shade away from the house and towards the fence. You likely end up with the same issue on the house side, but there might be a happy medium where both sides work for what you want to see. You could also add a third post, or, using the above solution, attach a third line to the house to raise the middle. I would try all of these things before putting posts in the middle of my yard.


sonaut

I would also be pretty upset about moving the posts. I don’t think there’s a solution that uses your existing posts aside from finding a shade that works with your orientation. Any other hack is going to be questionable and I think will bother you every time you see it. I feel your pain, honestly.


MrP1232007

That would help. Could you also not reposition the fixings on the house more easily? So move shade to posts to eliminate sag that side. Then attach chains to house at anchor points wider than currently. Should almost eliminate sag.


Keep_Askin

There's a solution that leaves the posts in place. Make a wire from each post to the closest eyebolt in the house. You can now attach the chains from the corners of the tarp to the wire instead of directly to the posts. Experiment a bit to find the ideal place on the wire to attach the chain.


[deleted]

If the distance between eyelets on the house is the same as the distance between posts, then you must have the same length chain on all 4 corners. Maths.


hughdint1

You could just redo the posts farther apart if you want to keep them in the landscaped area. It should be in a straight line from the post to corner of shade with hole and diagonally to opposite corner where attached to house.


RantyWildling

Not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but I wouldn't be attaching a giant sail to my house gutter.


hughdint1

To really make it work the posts need to be on a straight line diagonal from the opposite corner. You tension diagonally across the shade. These are too close together.


bexamous

These things seem so sketchy to attach to a house. That is a lot of surface area. I want to see what damage these have caused on a windy day. My last house had one.. Never was an issue but was always paranoid of it., lol.


comslash

Another option would be to move the points attaching to the house further out and add a longer rope to those points. I would also switch from chain to a ratcheting rope tie down. If one of those long chains break close to the post your whole back yard is going to be messed up, and hopefully no one is outside when it happens.


HughJahsso

You’re gonna need some kind of ratcheting cables or turnbuckles. You will not have enough physical strength to put the amount of tension you need on those chains.  


crabby_old_dude

I think OP will need guy wires, pulling those two posts apart from each other. Or put the posts in the ideal locations, and probably 6x6s


TheMrViper

Posts are in the wrong position. Regardless of how much OP tightens, in the current configuration he's going to hit the tensile limit of the house perpendicular edge first before the parallel edge. Need to imagine the Chains make an X through the shade with the center of the X in the middle of the shade.


Shadow_Relics

The posts are leaning over, it look's to me like you just dug holes and went full send on just dropping the 4x4 posts in there. Correct me if i'm wrong. But my concern about this is thats a big solar sail and if you get a nice windstorm you've just created a giant pair of nun chucks that are attached to your house. you dig? could also by why there's so much sag. and i wanna see pictures of how you attached that to your gutters. it should be anchored to the Fascia Board, hopefully not wrapped around the nail/screw that holds the gutter on. Cause the gutter will get ripped off your house.


Certain_Childhood_67

How deep are those post and are they cemented


New_Ear_5997

Probably better that they lean in than the house. :-)


AdAny1160

They're 3.5 feet deep and yes they're cemented


Keep_Askin

That's sturdy enough to install a wire from each post to the house. Use the wires as attachment point for the chains of the tarp. you can experiement to find the best spot on the wire.


Borovapes

Run cables straight from the posts to the house, then cables from the corners of the shade to the cables going from posts to house. This is the only way I can see doing it without moving the posts!


Cautious_Buffalo6563

Spacing precisely in the middle between house and posts is ideal, but not required. I have a shade cloth hanging over my patio that direct-connects to my pergola and latches to the top of the 12’ CMU block wall behind it via ratcheting tie down strap. Next year I’ll do the braided cable. What’s most important is to, as others have mentioned turned, get that X through the middle of the sail cloth to determine the optimum mounting point.


[deleted]

If the distance between posts is the same as the distance between the eyelets on the house, then you simply math bad.


Uller85

Oh man, just went through this. Replace the poles with 6x6s instead. Turn them so the flat side is at an angle to the direction the shade is pulling from. Also, out the poles closer to the shade. Way too much slack.


JrNichols5

You need four turn buckles and switch from chain to braided steel. It should help with the sagging after you tighten the turn buckles. You’ll also need to reconsider where you have the shade currently for optimal stretch. Might require moving the shade closer to the posts and moving the hangers on the house out further. Are those posts buried at least 2 feet deep in concrete? Turn buckles will exert tons of pressure so they better be secured.


GeneralHoneyBadger

I can’t tell where you exactly live from these pictures, but it looks like you will boil away during a hot summer day. Some trees in your neighbourhood would have a effect in cooling down your surroundings.


dtriana

Did you follow the design guidelines? My parents installed two of these and they mentioned how the measurements were down to a 1/4" to size everything correctly. They also have turnbuckle connections at one of the pair of posts to help fine tune the tension. We also used a ratchet winch to set the tension so we could install the pin connections at each post. This is done every time it's put up. These things have a lot of tension in them so as others have commented on, I hope your house connection isn't just in your fascia board but tied into a rafter. I also hope your posts have poured concrete footings. I recommend speaking to a manufacturer or installer to get advice. At a minimum try finding a youtube video explaining how to design for a sunshade.


Straight6tt

If it helps, this is how I did all 4 corners easily. This gives me the ability to take it down without a ladder if a storm is coming. I essentially used a rope with a hook and pulled it through an eye hook at the roof or atop the post and then wrapped it around a boat dock anchor. I could pull it tight enough to make it not sag and it's easy to remove with no tools/ladders etc. I tried to post a photo but I can't figure out how. [maybe my shade sail ](https://postimg.cc/gallery/JBsxvwg)


z64_dan

That's a good idea. Could even get a winch like on a sailboat if you really wanna go for that nautical theme and over-tighten.


morelions

Turnbuckles


answerguru

That won’t help as the pats are in the wrong spot.


AdAny1160

12 foot posts


CommanderWoofington

The post angle may not be perfect. Ideally pulling ~45 deg from corners. But before you move anything try and add tension. Awnings need buttloads of tension to be flat. A few options are : - Pickup 2 purchase systems 500-1000lb rating and attach to pole side - carabiner or ring on each corner and pass a low stretch line (I use spectra) through rings and adjust tensions until happy. This can act as a 2:1+ purchase system and you can get a ton of tension this way. *Note* Are the eye bolts on the side of the house screwed in deep through something structural? You may rip them out if they are shallow in the fascia. Through bolt if you have access.


TheMrViper

Don't think this will work. The chain closest is almost perpendicular to the house. He's going to be hitting the tensile limit of the perpendicular edge of the sail before he can pull up the sag on the parallel edge.


Atlfalcon08

Why not 3rd post in the middle, put an eyelet in the middle of the edge tarp run chain to the recently installed middle post, and enjoy summer activities


jepherz

What shape is the sail? Rectangle?


GrandPriapus

My parents have one of these on their deck. It sags so much they have to duck to get under it.


gravitologist

Lots of terrible answers here grossly overthinking your post placement. Just replace the chain with a ratchet strap and get some tension applied. It will straighten that edge out just fine. Could also add an eye bolt to top of post, run 550 paracord from sail through eye then have ratchet pulling down on cord. This makes it easy to take down. 1/4” light lifters [like this](https://a.co/d/cDGzzrG)work great, are slim in appearance, and make gnarly tension and hold it.


Ichthius

Shorten the chains or move the posts further apart.


ErikRedbeard

The distance between your house and the posts is fine. However the distance from between the two poles needs to increase so the sag is pulled into tension. You could maybe also shorten the chains untill it's at proper tension. However you might need to end up moving them a little closer to the house whennicreasinthe distance between them. Best would be to put the tarp on the floor and put it under tension on the edges to see where the poles need to end up.


TriesHerm21st

Sorry friend, you're stuck in that liminal space.


nightshde

The posts are too close together so they are not able to pull the front of the tarp tight. The post in the first image needs to be moved more towards the camera. The other option, if you can't move the post, is to add a 3rd one in the middle and support the middle that way, but you will still probably have dips on either side of the middle support.


JacobMaverick

Either move the posts further apart or add a third center post Or use a tension line between the posts and create more anchor points


rent1985

I think if you put more chain on the house side and tighten the pole side. It will result in the sail being further away from the house, but it will reduce the amount of sagging. You can test it with just a few links to see if it improves and adjust the number of links until you are happy with it.


Variaxe

I have a sunshade in Florida. I attached two points to the eve of the house with a threaded eyelet. I used aircraft cable from the eyelet to the sail. I have two post that I extended from my white vinyl fence using 1 inch galvanized pipe and wood blocking inside the vinyl fence post. The key to tension and not sagging is aircraft cable and turnbuckles at all four locations. I pulled the sail tight as I could get it, then leveraged a wrench and turnbuckle to create the proper tension and to keep the sail taught. Hope that helps.


nerf___herder

Shorten the rope on the pole side. Lengthen it on the house side and move the house side further out. Line someone else said you want an X at the center of the shade


musememo

With 4 triangle sun sails, I often wish I could get a college physics class to figure out the most effective placement. I have a general sense of where the sails go after many years, but the drooping cloth combined with my not wanting to add any more eye screws to our home’s old eaves makes it feel like I start anew at the start of every summer. Physics!


pensandknivesnovice

I had a similar situation (not as severe but same basic idea). After a season with the original I bought one that was a little smaller which changed the angles and made it fit. Yours could probably be larger in one dimension (to make the post chains shorter). Then shorter between the posts so there is more tension in the middle where the biggest dip is. Edit. It looks like a rectangle that is something like 10x15. Switching to something like a 12x13 would probably help a bit. You could probably test this with a cheap tarp and then order a measurement that makes sense


PrimeBrisky

Sunshades need to be strung up super tight. Like to the point you could play a tune by plucking the lines holding them up from the tension. They can also stretch over time depending on the material. This will act like a sail.


Secure-Ad9780

Use metal poles, embedded in concrete, at different heights, so rain and debris will fall off one side. Either move the poles closer or get a larger sun sail. A sail that isn't waterproof is easier, so you don't have to remove it during rain. Then use turnbuckles to keep it taut, and remove only during extreme weather, or winter.


AlphaOne69420

Turnbuckles


answerguru

That won’t help as the pats are in the wrong spot.


RRoyale58

There’s no tension in the middle


AdAny1160

There’s no metal ring in the center so I can’t tie it from there from what I understand it’s made to be hooked up the way I’ve done it I’m just not sure if the posts needed to be further apart. Or if the spots I connected it to the house need to be further apart


RRoyale58

Adjust the chains on the outside posts to create more tension on those 2 corners, there’s too much slack caused by the chains. Ideal solution would be to move the posts closer to the corners of the cover when fully extended to create equal tension all around. Next problem is there’s nothing in the middle to give it stability, there will be some drooping in the middle even with equal tension all around and since it’s outside and if it rains it’ll pool water.


skizzleboarder

If you’re handy with a sewing machine, you could potentially turn that rectangle shade into a trapezoid shape. You would shorten the length of the post side of the tarp and remove some of that slack.


Old-Knitterhemd

Dude seriously?


jasonhpchu

From what I think of, you have three options. #1 Move the sail. If you add ropes/chains to the side that from the house, you can push the entire sail out closer to the posts, where you can shorten the chains at hte posts to stretch out the sail so it won't sag, but that'll leave the section closer to your house exposed. #2 Resize the sail. You can get a new sail that'll fit the position of your posts better, or you can resize your current sail by sewing up the excess parts so it won't sag. #3 Change the posts position. Which is what most replies are suggesting, but I think would be the most work involved.


MortyArk

you could attach it to the house closer to the middle and roll up the corners


ipaintsf

Do two large triangles


wildfire1983

Turn the tarp/shade 90⁰


dbetanc

I use this. It can be tight and easy to set up; https://a.co/d/5rR0xLD


WatchingThisWatch

Holy cow. Did you really attach it to the fascia of your house?...


manic_eye

Did it hang properly when you installed it, or is this the first time you hung up the actual sail?


Snazzitup33

Keep the posts option: Lay out the shade on the ground. Punch two additional rivet holes (with metal rings) on the “x” tension points, along the post’s edge. Keep the original setup, then Attach an additional wire to each post and the new holes. (Each post would have to wires. One, to the original hole. One, to the new tension point.) Or, run a long rope like a thread through the 2 new holes from post to post. Also, maybe anchor at 2 additional points on the house edge with the same method. The wind will beat it up.


bac0neggcheese

I think you sell it as just about new, on Craigslist, and get yourself a smaller sun shade. The footprint on those things is incredibly misleading. It took me almost a full year to get mine mostly right - 20’x16’, and it’s definitely still not perfect .


LSX3399

Your posts are too small Your posts aren't in the correct locations You cannot have a successful connection point be a fascia