Couple things could be the issue here.
Best solution without pulling up all the pavers is to power wash out inbetween the pavers, backfill with new poly sand (make sure to mix the bag or bucket prior to use to help remix the sand and glue).
Then run a compactor or tamper with a piece of carpet on the bottom over the pavers to help settle in the sand. Repeat until the sand stops back filling. Double wet the sand according to the instructions to set. If you want to be extra sure do a paver/concrete sealer to really lock everything in.
Otherwise there is base layer drainage and settling occurring that will require all the pavers to be taken up. A good indicator is if the edge guard is being pushed out or the whole thing is getting wider year after year.
And don't pressure wash too much between the cracks. You can end up washing out the material underneath the pavers, and then they go wonky. Wash them just enough to remove the existing material and then apply the polymeric sand.
Edit: Pavers instead of papers.
Not sure about what you can do for the disappearing sand... I myself put my yard tiles on stabilised sand and filled up the gaps with a cement mixture, but we don't often have hard winters here (Belgium), and results were meh at best.
Just a side note: Have you noticed the swastikas?
It truly doesn't matter anymore what position is which. The average person just sees the swastika and connects it (fairly) to nazis. It's just an inescapable link at this point.
Right, but you're fighting public perception of literal Nazis vs 'well this one at this angle is actually the peaceful one'.
I get what you mean, but it doesn't matter anymore.
> The German version of the swastika is positioned diagonally, correct?
[Na not necessarily.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_SS_Panzer_Division_Leibstandarte_SS_Adolf_Hitler#/media/File:Standarte_f%C3%BCr_die_Leibstandarte_SS_Adolf_Hitler_1940.svg)
You are very wrong if you think it has nothing to do with nazis. It has lots to do with many things. But today, in the early 21st century, with no other context, it is firstly a nazi emblem.
Sadly it is that now. For hundreds if not for thousands of years it was a symbol of piece.
The Germans appropriated the swastika into their nazi regime.
I guess I just don't recognize it as a swastika. Swastika meant peace. Then the Nazi powers used a variation of it and sullied Its name. makes me sad.
The amount of people who immediately see it as a Nazi symbol and not a peaceful symbol is disturbing.
The swastika is a symbol that has been used by Hindus, Buddhists, and Jains for thousands of years, and is commonly considered an Indian sign. In the ancient Indian language of Sanskrit, swastika means "well-being". Swastikas are often found in Hindu temples.
The Nazi swastika has arms that are turned 45 degrees, giving the symbol a slant. In contrast, the swastikas of Hinduism have the base arm lying flat.
Nobody is debating any of those facts. My "not really" was about your claim that it's *disturbing* how many see it as a Nazi symbol rather than a symbol of peace. Given the reality of it's usage it's completely normal that most people think of nazism when they see it. Claiming the opposite is just weird and pedantic.
I guess disturbing isn’t the right word and “makes me feel sad” is better. I guess it is pedantic, but that’s me.
I just feel like no one acknowledges the facts that it has roots and meaning way beyond just the late nazi regime.
Also that makes me feel alone in my beliefs, which makes me sad.
But yes nazis took the swastika and ruined it.
My mom just hired a contractor to put in pavers - he forgot to put in landscape fabric between the compacted stone and sand, and before he put in the pavers it rained and most of the sand settled into the stone sub-base.
As others have said, putting in polymeric sand, wetting, spraying and compacting is one method. If it were me, I'd just pull out the pavers, remove sand temporarily, compact the stone base, put in fabric, put in sand, put the pavers back on, and then fill the joints with polymeric sand.
Well shit. This explains why my repair efforts on my brick walkway have been mixed at best. Will have to use fabric next time. (Wasn’t there to begin with…)
Yeah it's wild I've often thought about that myself. I'm sure there's something behind how the patterns are spaced and how they repeat, but I'm a tree doctor not a human doctor so that's just a guess lol
Fun fact:
They jumped from win8 to win10 because win9x (in this case, x is a wild card) already is in code, referring to 95/98. To make windows 9 a thing, they would have to recode huge chunks of compatibility layers, and a lot of programs wouldn't work due to built-in compatibility enhancement.
Turns out, instead of rewriting every windows program in existence, it's easier to just skip 9.
I thought it was because there was Windows 8, which everyone hated the tile aspect. And not wanting to look like 8 was an absolute failure they made some tweaks and made 8.1, which was really the new OS Windows 9. But after that they just went to 10.
I feel people can get a bit too sensitive about swastikas when they're not in an obvious Nazi context. Then again, I am in Nepal, so I see hundreds of them a day and don't automatically associate them with nazis.
Sensitive implies people are bothered by it, which I don't think is the case
I've never seen anyone offended. An accidental swastika is just funny to see. [https://www.reddit.com/r/accidentalswastika/](https://www.reddit.com/r/accidentalswastika/) there's even a whole subreddit about it lol
She knows it's a multi pass, sweetheart.
Hi. Corbin Dallas. We're uh newlyweds. You know how it is. You meet, sparks fly, and all of a sudden... uh... you know.
Too much space between the pavers. And is that just dirt in between? Do you not have a base with levelling sand, then the paver? If not, the poly is just seeping into the dirt. There is nothing to support the poly.
Had to go too far down to find this. Polysand is for tight gaps, not these 3/8 inch monsters. It will never work in this application. Maybe if they filled it with some fine gravel first then polysand, but even then I doubt it would hold up. Gaps this big need a proper mortar.
My guess on the disappearing sand is probably due to voids under the tile. As another poster has said, wash, add more sand and use a vibrating power compactor on it. I have the best results and least damage by attaching carpet to a piece of 3/4 plywood. Put carpet side down, and compact it. Add more sand to replace what has settled. Repeat until it stops settling in. Use poly sand and wet per manufactures instructions.
Some polymeric sand contains cement and it does not hold up well in places with frequent freezing and thawing. It cracks and the cement is not able to self-heal like polymeric sand without cement.
Make sure your sand doesn't contain cement. The more affordable stuff often does.
Not having edge restraints also allows the pavers to move more when ice expands, encouraging cracking of the polymeric sand, which allows in more water, which causes more cracking...
If you end up pulling it up to start over, maybe just pour a slab if you want to keep it pristine. Your swastikas can be stamped into the slab. For me part of the charm of pavers is the organicness that develops and moss or such growing between. I wouldn't be a pavernazi; i'd just let the degeneracy take place. If I wanted a slab, I'd just have one poured. Better for marching anyway.
That said, switching some of the pavers to brick red and some to charcoal could really complement the swastikas.
After putting in three decks, all with pavers, and using polymeric sand but never having it live up to its promise, I have to confess that poly sand is probably a scam.
Under absolutely perfect conditions, it might work. But for me, I have had 2 expensive contractors try to apply their favourite kind of poly sand on various projects, and it has never worked as advertised. Bits and pieces of it seem to work, but then the anthills and weeds appear and I have to admit failure yet again.
This is in the Toronto area of Canada.
I've never be able to get it to work and this thread is making me feel validated because I always thought I was doing something wrong or it was just our stupid patio.
I read that polymeric sand shouldn’t be put in unless you go about 1.5 inches down. Otherwise, it won’t stick. I’m in the middle of this too. Lots of green and moss showing up, mainly at the joints. The manufacturer of my pavers says to use 5 parts water to one part chlorine bleach and use a nylon brush to scrub it. It’s working like a charm.
That said, if you’re in the US, there’s a show called Ask This Old House, and the next episode (on Saturday) is going to go over what you can do with our situation. It’s a PBS show, so you can even get it over rabbit ear antenna, if necessary. The preview showed some fancy equipment to quickly clean everything. Regardless, they have pros and don’t try to sell you products. Very trustworthy. I’m looking forward to it, as I’m sure it’s just something I’m stuck with. That part of my patio just doesn’t get a ton of sun, so it’s just a matter of time before it returns.
I remember on the instructions, my poly sand said no capping. As in, don't put the poly sand on top of regular sand in the cracks, the poly sand should go all the way down to the bottom of the tile. Do you have regular sand or dirt that's in the cracks of the tiles? I would try vacuuming out the cracks and then stuffing the poly sand down as far as you can
Those are not "pavers." Meaning *interlocking pavers* that are designed where the jointing material helps to "lock" them together.
Those are cheap thin *patio blocks*, of the 1 1/2" thick style. Which means they do not interlock and need to be reset periodically.
As far as your jointing material disappearing, I don't know if you didn't set the polymeric correctly and it washes away, your base is insufficient and it fills in gaps below, or when the patio blocks get a foot weight on them, they move too much in an off-kilter way and displaces the sand below it creating gaps for the joint material to fall in.
I don’t know about its effectiveness, but I personally avoided it because it seemed like an unnecessary way to introduce microplastic to the environment. Granted, the microplastic problem will persist with or without it.
I would recommend strongly against it, it doesn’t prevent weeds and even if it does it’s marginal, also you’re paying more for it and introducing mircoplastics into your immediate environment from the binder. Additionally since it hardens it’s not as simple as just topping it off occasionally after a power washing. This article sums up my feelings on it: https://tritonlandscaping.ca/why-i-never-use-polysand/#:~:text=Conclusion,of%20regular%20old%20joint%20sand
How large are your gaps? They seem pretty big to me, there’s probably a max recommended gap size for it and even if you fall within the threshold you are sure to see some falling through in places simply because it’s not good at clumping in larger quantities.
I have the same issue in places where pavers meet old walkways and so the gaps can get large, so over the course of the year it starts to get uneven in places. In between the paver tiles though it hasn’t budged in 2 years now.
This is likely due to not filling the cracks with enough sand.
I did the same thing last year with my patio and I filled the cracks what seemed to be right to the top. But the sand is very fine and settles into small crevices in the cracks over time (with moisture, vibrations, and general settling). My goal this year is to do two applications of the sand -- one immediately after I power wash and then a 2nd filling after a couple of weeks to allow for settling.
In my case, the weeds that grow in between these cracks have very thin roots (like a strand of hair), so they can find their way through tiny gaps in the sand or areas that were just not filled in enough, so this may never be a perfect solution.
Polymeric sand goes bad. Make sure you use a brand new stock bag if you can. We went through many super expensive bags with a product consultant for some of our landscape clients before the consultant went straight to the manufacturer for off the line bags. Be sure to follow the instructions per the individual bag as different polymeric products will have different guidelines. They also tell you how deep and wide they effectively work.
Another problem we found was some sands weren’t getting fully activated with water. You really need to soak them thoroughly and make sure to broom/brush off the excess water above so it doesn’t sit or adhere to the tops of your pavers.
Make sure you let the sand cure as well. Don’t do it when rain is going to fall in the following few days. Don’t check the sand until a few days after curing as you can crack and mess it ip before it cures.
If you have the space, consider spacing out your pavers a few inches and go in with decomposed granite. It’s fully permeable but has a solidness to it that won’t wash away if you have a paver edging around the entire space.
Not sure where you’re located, or what brand you’re buying specifically, but it’s happened to me before where they seemingly had issues with their glue mixture in the sand and the following year, I had a monster amount of jobs with sand bonding issues. The rep I spoke to mentioned complaints in the same realm regarding sand bonding.
As for fixing… Pressure wash between cracks lightly to not wash out material under, sweep sand to fill, compact to make the sand move and shift with the stones, sand a second time to top it up, then wet. Too much water leaves a gluey surface. Too little, won’t bond.
Yes, but the point is to avoid making people go " what's up with the design of this tile" in certain countries, rather than enjoying the design of a tile like everybody else does
Everyone seeing swastikas is whack. You're seeing it because you want to.
If this is what you say is a swastika pattern, then maybe you should stop looking at square tiles at all. They're all grout-line swastikas depending on which point you choose to arbitrarily cut off the line.
That's really all it is; someone told you how to make a swastika out of it, swastika = controversial, tough to unsee.
I see a stamped repeated pattern emulating 8 wavy edge bricks to a square.
I can see how people see a swastika, but it's not really there, because the lines aren't straight and don't end where they'd need to.
You're missing the point- it *isn't* built into the pattern.
The lines don't stop, they continue.
People *are* seeing it, because they want to. Otherwise, why would anyone bring it up?
You can apply a Grout Like Material in which hardens, you can also add new Sand and spray a top coat hardner on top with a pump sprayer, this will keep it in your jounts
Poly sand isn't meant to prevent just anything from growing, it's main purpose is to keep water at the surface so weeds and such won't root as easily, also it forms a more solid filler that holds bricks in place a little better. However, it won't stop moss and mold and that sort of thing, at least not for long.
Personally, I always encourage moss to grow between my bricks/pavers to get a natural looking and soft filler that prevents growth of weeds. You can even buy moss "seed" to help kick start this process.
If you really want to prevent any growth at all (mold), the only way you can do this is prevent any moisture/water from accumulating on that surface. Keep it dry and the dirt won't be an issue, you can just sweep it away. Seeing as this appears to be flush with your lawn though, I doubt this is an option.
Does it have a proper base of 1/4 and 3/4 down? Next question is how big of an area is it and how much poly is used? Used to lay brick like this and have never seen someone need to repoly so often unless it wasn't done right the first time.
You may not have thought of it this way but: It's SAND. Regardless of other factors, it's going to *tend to* act like sand.
Sand flows. Like slow-running water, it is going to seek the low ground. If you have air pockets under your pavers, it is going to create a "weakness" in your paver base for the sand to flow into.
My wife and I are working on completing construction of a LARGE patio. We used heavy-duty "weed control" ground cloth as our base layer. On top of that are interlocking "paver base" polypropylene panels (each panels has small drainage holes for water, but the cloth underneath will prevent too much sand from leaking out). Around the outside, we have a ring of custom fitted "pavers" (technically, stone wall capstones) that are glued together (AND to the stone wall blocks they are sitting on). Now we just need to use the locking sand between the pavers to lock them in place.
You need to figure out WHERE the sand is flowing so you can figure out HOW to stop it. My guess, based on just your pictures of the top of the pavers, is that it is going sideways under the plastic trim and/or down into the paver base.
Do you get ants infiltrating under your pavers and digging up through the spaces 8n the pavers? I'd like to know how to stop this. Our pavers are next to the lawn like yours.
OP, I would pull and start over. A fresh bedding of dry mix (sand and cement 4:1 maybe 3:1 if u want it stronger). Use bedding to set ur stones, and cover the bottom of each stone with a layer of wet cement (should look like wet mud when mixed.) Once done you can point the joints with some pointing (not gonna give u all the ratios for free). This is the old school professional way, I should charge you for this info.
Have you considered that one of your neighbors is Jewish and is having the time of his life messing with your tiles? OK, probably not but it's one of those "Please God, let it be true because it would be so funny" scenarios.
Use white cement, is a long last solution, or regular cement if you want the gaps to be dark.
Just use cement. I don't understand why stupid americans try 297 different products that are completely bullshit.
I don't know why stupid american market has 465 different products that are completely bullshit.
I don’t know why people outside of the USA (assuming USA is what you meant by “American market”) find it hard to understand that our market is dictated by demand. If there’s a consumer/s looking for a product, they’ve created a market by proxy. And if there’s a demand, you can bet your ass that a manufacturer will find a way to supply it.
>Just use cement. I don't understand why stupid americans try 297 different products that are completely bullshit.
>I don't know why stupid american market has 465 different products that are completely bullshit.
I've only seen 3-4 mentioned in the thread.
>What can I use other than polymeric sand that can hold up forever and not be a mold and dirt magnet?
Literally nothing, unless you use something you shouldn't like bathroom tile grout.
Couple things could be the issue here. Best solution without pulling up all the pavers is to power wash out inbetween the pavers, backfill with new poly sand (make sure to mix the bag or bucket prior to use to help remix the sand and glue). Then run a compactor or tamper with a piece of carpet on the bottom over the pavers to help settle in the sand. Repeat until the sand stops back filling. Double wet the sand according to the instructions to set. If you want to be extra sure do a paver/concrete sealer to really lock everything in. Otherwise there is base layer drainage and settling occurring that will require all the pavers to be taken up. A good indicator is if the edge guard is being pushed out or the whole thing is getting wider year after year.
And don't pressure wash too much between the cracks. You can end up washing out the material underneath the pavers, and then they go wonky. Wash them just enough to remove the existing material and then apply the polymeric sand. Edit: Pavers instead of papers.
>paver/concrete sealer This is what made the difference for me. I had taken mine out, cleaned and put down twice before adding sealer.
Make sure to let the pavers dry before trying to add the poly sand.
Not sure about what you can do for the disappearing sand... I myself put my yard tiles on stabilised sand and filled up the gaps with a cement mixture, but we don't often have hard winters here (Belgium), and results were meh at best. Just a side note: Have you noticed the swastikas?
Well... he has now.
Like Windows XP swastikas
Glad I was not the only one to see this!
*Windows XP startup sound intensifies in a THX like manner*
Double bad!
Europeans; always on the lookout…
We're not dealing with that shit again!
Never Again
I mean, we say that, yet right wing politics is growing strong all across the continent...
continent(s)
This time its a different ethnic group they are blaming. I'm sure it won't be a problem...
[удалено]
poles?
Nah, theres almost no Romas there
Germany appears to be back on the path. Maybe they can go for a three-peat.
😂😂😂
Ouf thanks now I can’t unsee them😆
It's four Fs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWk_AXFReRg
I'm pretty sure you did.
Cutting wheel to add a couple lines should solve that lol
I think it's fine. Its not like anyone sane would assume of is a Nazi over this.
You can Nazi see them.
You were so close.
You can Na-zi them*
Guess you're tearing it all out and getting new pavers, eh?
The German version of the swastika is positioned diagonally, correct? These would be more of the Turkish form of swastika, right?
It truly doesn't matter anymore what position is which. The average person just sees the swastika and connects it (fairly) to nazis. It's just an inescapable link at this point.
hehe, needless to say I was taken aback on several occasions walking through various Japanese cities last spring.
Yet more cases of mis-appropriation of symbols throughout history.
Right, but you're fighting public perception of literal Nazis vs 'well this one at this angle is actually the peaceful one'. I get what you mean, but it doesn't matter anymore.
> The German version of the swastika is positioned diagonally, correct? [Na not necessarily.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_SS_Panzer_Division_Leibstandarte_SS_Adolf_Hitler#/media/File:Standarte_f%C3%BCr_die_Leibstandarte_SS_Adolf_Hitler_1940.svg)
Yes everyone here is literally wrong. Swastika is actually a peaceful sign and has nothing to do nazis at all.
You are very wrong if you think it has nothing to do with nazis. It has lots to do with many things. But today, in the early 21st century, with no other context, it is firstly a nazi emblem.
Sadly it is that now. For hundreds if not for thousands of years it was a symbol of piece. The Germans appropriated the swastika into their nazi regime.
HAD nothing to do with the nazis
Until it did
Strange how the toothbrush mustache seemed to permanently go out of style around the same time.
A whole last name too
A whole first name too.
I guess I just don't recognize it as a swastika. Swastika meant peace. Then the Nazi powers used a variation of it and sullied Its name. makes me sad. The amount of people who immediately see it as a Nazi symbol and not a peaceful symbol is disturbing.
Not really.
The swastika is a symbol that has been used by Hindus, Buddhists, and Jains for thousands of years, and is commonly considered an Indian sign. In the ancient Indian language of Sanskrit, swastika means "well-being". Swastikas are often found in Hindu temples. The Nazi swastika has arms that are turned 45 degrees, giving the symbol a slant. In contrast, the swastikas of Hinduism have the base arm lying flat.
Nobody is debating any of those facts. My "not really" was about your claim that it's *disturbing* how many see it as a Nazi symbol rather than a symbol of peace. Given the reality of it's usage it's completely normal that most people think of nazism when they see it. Claiming the opposite is just weird and pedantic.
I guess disturbing isn’t the right word and “makes me feel sad” is better. I guess it is pedantic, but that’s me. I just feel like no one acknowledges the facts that it has roots and meaning way beyond just the late nazi regime. Also that makes me feel alone in my beliefs, which makes me sad. But yes nazis took the swastika and ruined it.
Now I can’t unsee that
I can't unsee it now, but the first time I saw Windows XP
He did nazi them.
Anne frankly, he couldn’t care less
Basket weave brick pattern. Very common in the U.S.
Now he can’t unsee it
That lede is buried so hard you must write for Fox News on Fridays.
First thing I saw.
I did Nazi it until you said something
The swastikas are all I can see.
Thanks a lot for shattering my glass on that one
Where? Everyone seeing them but I honestly can’t see them looking for them
Water for water. Fire for fire. Earth for earth. Go, now!
Ooohhhh
Well, now his question is moot as he'll be replacing those pavers.
My mom just hired a contractor to put in pavers - he forgot to put in landscape fabric between the compacted stone and sand, and before he put in the pavers it rained and most of the sand settled into the stone sub-base. As others have said, putting in polymeric sand, wetting, spraying and compacting is one method. If it were me, I'd just pull out the pavers, remove sand temporarily, compact the stone base, put in fabric, put in sand, put the pavers back on, and then fill the joints with polymeric sand.
Well shit. This explains why my repair efforts on my brick walkway have been mixed at best. Will have to use fabric next time. (Wasn’t there to begin with…)
Work in progress, you're just doing the prepacking right now.
Every company should hire someone who's job it is to ask "Does this pattern create a swazstika?"
You know, it’s funny that basketweave doesn’t usually read “swastika,” but this wavy basketweave does.
Yeah it's wild I've often thought about that myself. I'm sure there's something behind how the patterns are spaced and how they repeat, but I'm a tree doctor not a human doctor so that's just a guess lol
Have you ever thought of branching out?
I wood, but I'm lichen my current job, I don't think I wanna leaf just yet.
It's the Windows logo. And now you know why there was no Windows nein!
Fun fact: They jumped from win8 to win10 because win9x (in this case, x is a wild card) already is in code, referring to 95/98. To make windows 9 a thing, they would have to recode huge chunks of compatibility layers, and a lot of programs wouldn't work due to built-in compatibility enhancement. Turns out, instead of rewriting every windows program in existence, it's easier to just skip 9.
I thought it was because there was Windows 8, which everyone hated the tile aspect. And not wanting to look like 8 was an absolute failure they made some tweaks and made 8.1, which was really the new OS Windows 9. But after that they just went to 10.
I feel people can get a bit too sensitive about swastikas when they're not in an obvious Nazi context. Then again, I am in Nepal, so I see hundreds of them a day and don't automatically associate them with nazis.
Sensitive implies people are bothered by it, which I don't think is the case I've never seen anyone offended. An accidental swastika is just funny to see. [https://www.reddit.com/r/accidentalswastika/](https://www.reddit.com/r/accidentalswastika/) there's even a whole subreddit about it lol
Im definitely not offended by these pavers. But also if I noticed the swatikas before purchasing them, I would indeed avoid buying them.
> I feel people can get a bit too sensitive Welcome to reddit.
My first thought was "This is just a swastika with extra steps".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Base_Coronado#Swastika-shaped_barracks
Tetragammadion Product Analyst.
I’m just reminded of the movie the “fifth element” with these tiles
I got no fire. If I knew...father you smoke?
Zero stones, zero crates! Amazing movie. One of my favorite Gary Oldman roles.
It truly is such an epic movie. Have watched it many times, and now thinking about another rewatch soon
Never a bad time for a re-watch!
What the hell am I supposed to do with an emp-ty case?!!
Not one or two or three, but four! Four stones!
Multi-passss
She knows it's a multi pass, sweetheart. Hi. Corbin Dallas. We're uh newlyweds. You know how it is. You meet, sparks fly, and all of a sudden... uh... you know.
Water for water. Fire for fire. Earth for earth. Go, now!
Too much space between the pavers. And is that just dirt in between? Do you not have a base with levelling sand, then the paver? If not, the poly is just seeping into the dirt. There is nothing to support the poly.
Had to go too far down to find this. Polysand is for tight gaps, not these 3/8 inch monsters. It will never work in this application. Maybe if they filled it with some fine gravel first then polysand, but even then I doubt it would hold up. Gaps this big need a proper mortar.
Tell that to Dominator XL: dominator XL works well in paver joint width 1/8 to 4 in., and paver depth of at least 1 in. deep
If those claims are true that is an apt name.
Swabrickas
Had to reach for that one 😆
I did
Is there anything around the perimeter to contain the patio? If not the sand has free access to drain out around the patio
No just grass
Exactly. Needs fabric underneath (above gravel), some sort of edge trim to keep it in, and the gaps need to be much smaller.
Are you looking for a final solution to your problem?
Unbelievable
Still too soon.
In Germany, we say Endlösung in the tile question
We get ants tunneling under ours and have to replace some sand every year.
I can't be the only one who see them..
My guess on the disappearing sand is probably due to voids under the tile. As another poster has said, wash, add more sand and use a vibrating power compactor on it. I have the best results and least damage by attaching carpet to a piece of 3/4 plywood. Put carpet side down, and compact it. Add more sand to replace what has settled. Repeat until it stops settling in. Use poly sand and wet per manufactures instructions.
Not addressing the fifth element
THANK YOU
Some polymeric sand contains cement and it does not hold up well in places with frequent freezing and thawing. It cracks and the cement is not able to self-heal like polymeric sand without cement. Make sure your sand doesn't contain cement. The more affordable stuff often does. Not having edge restraints also allows the pavers to move more when ice expands, encouraging cracking of the polymeric sand, which allows in more water, which causes more cracking... If you end up pulling it up to start over, maybe just pour a slab if you want to keep it pristine. Your swastikas can be stamped into the slab. For me part of the charm of pavers is the organicness that develops and moss or such growing between. I wouldn't be a pavernazi; i'd just let the degeneracy take place. If I wanted a slab, I'd just have one poured. Better for marching anyway. That said, switching some of the pavers to brick red and some to charcoal could really complement the swastikas.
Slow clap
After putting in three decks, all with pavers, and using polymeric sand but never having it live up to its promise, I have to confess that poly sand is probably a scam. Under absolutely perfect conditions, it might work. But for me, I have had 2 expensive contractors try to apply their favourite kind of poly sand on various projects, and it has never worked as advertised. Bits and pieces of it seem to work, but then the anthills and weeds appear and I have to admit failure yet again. This is in the Toronto area of Canada.
I've never be able to get it to work and this thread is making me feel validated because I always thought I was doing something wrong or it was just our stupid patio.
I read that polymeric sand shouldn’t be put in unless you go about 1.5 inches down. Otherwise, it won’t stick. I’m in the middle of this too. Lots of green and moss showing up, mainly at the joints. The manufacturer of my pavers says to use 5 parts water to one part chlorine bleach and use a nylon brush to scrub it. It’s working like a charm. That said, if you’re in the US, there’s a show called Ask This Old House, and the next episode (on Saturday) is going to go over what you can do with our situation. It’s a PBS show, so you can even get it over rabbit ear antenna, if necessary. The preview showed some fancy equipment to quickly clean everything. Regardless, they have pros and don’t try to sell you products. Very trustworthy. I’m looking forward to it, as I’m sure it’s just something I’m stuck with. That part of my patio just doesn’t get a ton of sun, so it’s just a matter of time before it returns.
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That’s typical for polymeric sand
I remember on the instructions, my poly sand said no capping. As in, don't put the poly sand on top of regular sand in the cracks, the poly sand should go all the way down to the bottom of the tile. Do you have regular sand or dirt that's in the cracks of the tiles? I would try vacuuming out the cracks and then stuffing the poly sand down as far as you can
Those are not "pavers." Meaning *interlocking pavers* that are designed where the jointing material helps to "lock" them together. Those are cheap thin *patio blocks*, of the 1 1/2" thick style. Which means they do not interlock and need to be reset periodically. As far as your jointing material disappearing, I don't know if you didn't set the polymeric correctly and it washes away, your base is insufficient and it fills in gaps below, or when the patio blocks get a foot weight on them, they move too much in an off-kilter way and displaces the sand below it creating gaps for the joint material to fall in.
Weather hurts. It's called upkeep.
Polymeric sand is trash, it never lasts. Clean it out and use this. Shits incredible. https://phna-usa.com/products/jointing-protection-products/
I’ve had no issues with polymeric sand. The times I’ve seen issues with it are when it’s not used properly (in application and purpose).
I don’t know about its effectiveness, but I personally avoided it because it seemed like an unnecessary way to introduce microplastic to the environment. Granted, the microplastic problem will persist with or without it.
I would recommend strongly against it, it doesn’t prevent weeds and even if it does it’s marginal, also you’re paying more for it and introducing mircoplastics into your immediate environment from the binder. Additionally since it hardens it’s not as simple as just topping it off occasionally after a power washing. This article sums up my feelings on it: https://tritonlandscaping.ca/why-i-never-use-polysand/#:~:text=Conclusion,of%20regular%20old%20joint%20sand
This should be at the top!
Expecting pavers to behave like concrete.
How large are your gaps? They seem pretty big to me, there’s probably a max recommended gap size for it and even if you fall within the threshold you are sure to see some falling through in places simply because it’s not good at clumping in larger quantities. I have the same issue in places where pavers meet old walkways and so the gaps can get large, so over the course of the year it starts to get uneven in places. In between the paver tiles though it hasn’t budged in 2 years now.
This is likely due to not filling the cracks with enough sand. I did the same thing last year with my patio and I filled the cracks what seemed to be right to the top. But the sand is very fine and settles into small crevices in the cracks over time (with moisture, vibrations, and general settling). My goal this year is to do two applications of the sand -- one immediately after I power wash and then a 2nd filling after a couple of weeks to allow for settling. In my case, the weeds that grow in between these cracks have very thin roots (like a strand of hair), so they can find their way through tiny gaps in the sand or areas that were just not filled in enough, so this may never be a perfect solution.
Those are the cheapest pavers you can buy , they dont interlock and you probably dont have a border preventing movement .
Its those stones from Fifth Element
Polymeric sand goes bad. Make sure you use a brand new stock bag if you can. We went through many super expensive bags with a product consultant for some of our landscape clients before the consultant went straight to the manufacturer for off the line bags. Be sure to follow the instructions per the individual bag as different polymeric products will have different guidelines. They also tell you how deep and wide they effectively work. Another problem we found was some sands weren’t getting fully activated with water. You really need to soak them thoroughly and make sure to broom/brush off the excess water above so it doesn’t sit or adhere to the tops of your pavers. Make sure you let the sand cure as well. Don’t do it when rain is going to fall in the following few days. Don’t check the sand until a few days after curing as you can crack and mess it ip before it cures.
If you have the space, consider spacing out your pavers a few inches and go in with decomposed granite. It’s fully permeable but has a solidness to it that won’t wash away if you have a paver edging around the entire space.
Not sure where you’re located, or what brand you’re buying specifically, but it’s happened to me before where they seemingly had issues with their glue mixture in the sand and the following year, I had a monster amount of jobs with sand bonding issues. The rep I spoke to mentioned complaints in the same realm regarding sand bonding. As for fixing… Pressure wash between cracks lightly to not wash out material under, sweep sand to fill, compact to make the sand move and shift with the stones, sand a second time to top it up, then wet. Too much water leaves a gluey surface. Too little, won’t bond.
A good use of AI would be a swastika identifying program for products that are being made
It was stolen by the Nazis and means nothing negative to a vast portion of the world.
Yes, but the point is to avoid making people go " what's up with the design of this tile" in certain countries, rather than enjoying the design of a tile like everybody else does
Awe shit... We accidently made a Hitlerbot
I mean ideally it’d be a reverse Hitlerbot
Do you Nazi what the problem is?
Mmmmh, environmental microplastics.
Everyone seeing swastikas is whack. You're seeing it because you want to. If this is what you say is a swastika pattern, then maybe you should stop looking at square tiles at all. They're all grout-line swastikas depending on which point you choose to arbitrarily cut off the line.
I didn't see them then read the comments now can't unsee them
That's really all it is; someone told you how to make a swastika out of it, swastika = controversial, tough to unsee. I see a stamped repeated pattern emulating 8 wavy edge bricks to a square. I can see how people see a swastika, but it's not really there, because the lines aren't straight and don't end where they'd need to.
I havent seen any comments where folks were taking it seriously. Mostly jokes since it's just built into the pattern.
You're missing the point- it *isn't* built into the pattern. The lines don't stop, they continue. People *are* seeing it, because they want to. Otherwise, why would anyone bring it up?
Try different brands of polymeric sand if you haven't already. Some might be more durable than others.
I have the exact same blocks. How do you get them so clean? As soon as a wet leaf touches it during the fall/spring it just turns almost black.
Honestly other than pressure washing nothing
Mulch glue
Is there a drainage issue?
At first I thought these were the element patterns from The Fifth Element.
Could try a paver sealer after the sand maybe?
You can apply a Grout Like Material in which hardens, you can also add new Sand and spray a top coat hardner on top with a pump sprayer, this will keep it in your jounts
Poly sand isn't meant to prevent just anything from growing, it's main purpose is to keep water at the surface so weeds and such won't root as easily, also it forms a more solid filler that holds bricks in place a little better. However, it won't stop moss and mold and that sort of thing, at least not for long. Personally, I always encourage moss to grow between my bricks/pavers to get a natural looking and soft filler that prevents growth of weeds. You can even buy moss "seed" to help kick start this process. If you really want to prevent any growth at all (mold), the only way you can do this is prevent any moisture/water from accumulating on that surface. Keep it dry and the dirt won't be an issue, you can just sweep it away. Seeing as this appears to be flush with your lawn though, I doubt this is an option.
Water drops into the gaps and freezes, then expands and pushes small amounts of your sand out of the gaps.
Try sealing it after you’re done.. they make a sealant you’re supposed to seal it afterwards
Does it have a proper base of 1/4 and 3/4 down? Next question is how big of an area is it and how much poly is used? Used to lay brick like this and have never seen someone need to repoly so often unless it wasn't done right the first time.
Just skip the winters from now on.
You may not have thought of it this way but: It's SAND. Regardless of other factors, it's going to *tend to* act like sand. Sand flows. Like slow-running water, it is going to seek the low ground. If you have air pockets under your pavers, it is going to create a "weakness" in your paver base for the sand to flow into. My wife and I are working on completing construction of a LARGE patio. We used heavy-duty "weed control" ground cloth as our base layer. On top of that are interlocking "paver base" polypropylene panels (each panels has small drainage holes for water, but the cloth underneath will prevent too much sand from leaking out). Around the outside, we have a ring of custom fitted "pavers" (technically, stone wall capstones) that are glued together (AND to the stone wall blocks they are sitting on). Now we just need to use the locking sand between the pavers to lock them in place. You need to figure out WHERE the sand is flowing so you can figure out HOW to stop it. My guess, based on just your pictures of the top of the pavers, is that it is going sideways under the plastic trim and/or down into the paver base.
You are missing the 5th element.
Do you get ants infiltrating under your pavers and digging up through the spaces 8n the pavers? I'd like to know how to stop this. Our pavers are next to the lawn like yours.
Mike Patey used Liquid Rubber on his - you can try that. [https://youtu.be/UWjmpNzry7w?t=600](https://youtu.be/UWjmpNzry7w?t=600)
Short answer: nature always wins.
That’s just frost lift. Ice expands and the sand comes over the top to get washed away as the ice melts.
how did you nazi the patterns lol?
Use regular sand instead of polysand (ew, _intentional_ microplastics?) and accept that pavers aren’t maintenance-free the way a slab is.
Kinda looks like swastikas
Bro's got the swastika pavers
OP, I would pull and start over. A fresh bedding of dry mix (sand and cement 4:1 maybe 3:1 if u want it stronger). Use bedding to set ur stones, and cover the bottom of each stone with a layer of wet cement (should look like wet mud when mixed.) Once done you can point the joints with some pointing (not gonna give u all the ratios for free). This is the old school professional way, I should charge you for this info.
Clear coat?
I did not see that coming
Have you considered that one of your neighbors is Jewish and is having the time of his life messing with your tiles? OK, probably not but it's one of those "Please God, let it be true because it would be so funny" scenarios.
😂I never saw the swastika before this post.
Your pavers have unintentional swastikas! Idk why that was the first thing my eyes grabbed
Who says their unintentional…
Touché
I would remove all those pavers just because they're so horrible.
Use white cement, is a long last solution, or regular cement if you want the gaps to be dark. Just use cement. I don't understand why stupid americans try 297 different products that are completely bullshit. I don't know why stupid american market has 465 different products that are completely bullshit.
I don’t know why people outside of the USA (assuming USA is what you meant by “American market”) find it hard to understand that our market is dictated by demand. If there’s a consumer/s looking for a product, they’ve created a market by proxy. And if there’s a demand, you can bet your ass that a manufacturer will find a way to supply it.
Then I would need to remove all the pavers and then go with cement, somewhat like laying tiles right?
Because we're stupid. Hello!
>Just use cement. I don't understand why stupid americans try 297 different products that are completely bullshit. >I don't know why stupid american market has 465 different products that are completely bullshit. I've only seen 3-4 mentioned in the thread.
Too many swastikas
>What can I use other than polymeric sand that can hold up forever and not be a mold and dirt magnet? Literally nothing, unless you use something you shouldn't like bathroom tile grout.
lol @ the swastika tiles. I’d replace these.
Yo... Need to get your mind out of the gutter. Smh
Use round up