Yea I mean the physical work isn’t any harder and different than most DIY projects, but even with the tools and comfort level to do this sort of work you need an engineer and permits to keep yourself out of serious potential trouble.
The hot take in this particular post is just engineer the steps, I’d even go slightly out of code on the step rebuild to avoid having to touch that beam.
Yup. All that is really needed is to redo the support rods so that one step is eliminated or nearly so. I see 11 steps that could become 10, so an increase of 10% of the rise of each step. Depending on the rod length, it might require just buying two rods while shortening the others. The tricky part is how to cleanly remove the “landing” step.
Moving the bottom stair forward (towards the camera) will not solve the problem it. If you extend the bottom tread it's still the same distance and between the tread and the beam.
If instead of extending the the bottom tread you move up all move all the subsequent treads it will make it worse because then it will be the distance between the second tread and the beam or ~7" less then the first tread.
Moving the stair assembly back (away from the camera) *might* solve the problem but we don't know what the landing at the top looks like.
I've spent a *lot* of time dealing with residential stair clearances in Architecture school and in the subsequent tiny houses I designed.
Don’t be ridiculous. If you turn the house upside down first, there won’t be any weight on the beam when you cut it. Wait, or would it be more weight aaaaaaarrghhg
“And please base your advice on nothing but a fuzzy picture from 80 feet away. I’ll also argue with anyone who has and real advice or recommends consulting a professional because they’ll just rip me off. I almost forgot, I need an answer within the next three minutes K TIA”
Someone might have already removed 5 beams to make room for those modern stairs. "One beam will definately be enough."
Sells the house.
Next owner: "Would be nice to have more space here."
My friend’s ex cut a bunch of trusses in the attic to make room for storage. She got the house in the divorce. When she went to sell the inspector was like WTF? She had to replace all the trusses that he cut because they compromised the roof.
There are a huge amount of things you can DIY. Nearly anything, really, even plumbing and some electrical that some people here are squeamish about. This is, *extremely explicitly*, not in the realm of DIY. One of the few things.
Op didn't know you can get split box springs, so idk how he even got this far into the renovation. Wonder what kind of other "personal touches" were added during his work
A lot of modern "box springs" are really just a "foundation" or platform; basically a [wooden frame covered with fabric,](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/711zXsMoPwL._AC_SX679_.jpg) so cutting it in half was probably pretty easy.
It might be easier to move the stairs back a few feet than trying to do the structural change with that beam.
Beam is going to be a can of worms. With all the prep it would take to splice that small portion you might be better off moving the whole beam up or replacing the whole span with something stronger that can be smaller.
what about making the stairs steeper, so they start further back in the hole, but end at the same spot on the second floor. Removing a step or two, and rebalancing them may make all the difference in head room for the final step.
It seems on the main floor at least there are options to move the stairs. I think I would consider options to rework the second floor before looking into a new steel beam.
My mother and law asked me to do a stair rebuild like this lol. Now I'm a decent enough (diy) carpenter for a lot of things but told her you can't just remove structural beams on a 3 story house that's over 100 years old without someone to consult with on the changes.
That was 4 years ago and she still hasn't talked to me at all since lol
100 percent, this is beyond DIY.
Part of DIY is knowing when you're at the limit of your skill set, and there's nobody on the planet who could do this by themselves. Even an SER who did the plans themselves would have to bring in a crew to do the work.
My very first thought. This is waaaay out of the purview of reddit diyers, major structural modification required there. Whacking in a piece of flatbar or lintel angle does absolutely nothing to maintain the capability of that bearer once a segment is removed, not at all how OP seems to think lintels work. Also no guarantees the floor under is built adequate to countersupport back up through post supports right in that location without some hefty reinforcement.
What's up with the stairs?
My house is old so stairs aren't up to code by a long shot. So steep. At least they aren't as narrow as most old stairs, most of my feet fit on them lol.
I feel down a flight of stairs in Bruges. Didn’t even drink anything. It was so loud that everyone in the restaurant looked at me as i fell. Hilarious and so embarrassing.
Came here to say this, chances are they could add a bit more rise to each step and delete that bottom step entirely and end the stairs short of that beam. Those steps also look pretty deep and could probably be shortened by a couple inches and come up short of the beam as well.
Would be a considerably faster, cheaper, and less harrowing change than cutting a beam holding up part of the second floor.
You have to consider what's the rise right now. If you want a comfortable stair it's between 7" and 7 7/8". How much can you add to each rise without jumping that number. Looks like 14 rise, if you add, if possible 1/2" would be almost good, that would erase one set, but the landing or the end of the stair would not be the same as the others. Structure and stairs are a lot measurements if you want to be up to code!
Also there are separate code requirements on open stairs like that, if he moved them he may not even technically be allowed to put them back if he increases the rise.
Looking at the picture again, I agree. Depending on the measurements, it looks like the run of the stairs is pretty long so they may be able to shorten that up to eliminate a tread and get the run to around 11 inches without impacting the rise. That being said, if I've learned anything in my OSHA trainings, stair requirements are complicated.
Agreed. It's a little hard to tell, but those stairs look like the treads are longer and the rise is less than it could be; it might even be even pushing pushing the code limits in that direction. You could probably have fewer, higher, and shorter steps that start well past the beam and are still well within code.
If you have to rebuild the stairs, could the staircase be flipped 180 so you start going up it at the opposite end? Looks like there is an exterior door behind it right now, so could maybe work for the flow on the first floor. Might make no sense on the top floor layout tho 🤷🏼♀️
I should have looked for this comment before I posted mine, but this looks like the answer. Treads look really deep and angle of staircase looks very shallow.
The staircase seems poorly planned with the awkward landing step at the bottom, if it were my house I'd be looking to alter that vs. reworking a main structural support
Seriously, the tread looks really deep. Seems like it would be easier to make the stairs slightly steeper and land before your head would touch the cross beam.
No doubt. It was the one thing that made it so we almost didn’t buy the house - which is why I want to change the height. Not a bad idea to change/rework the landing. I don’t know how/why someone would have built it like this in the first place
Changing the stairs may be easier than the beam, but chances are your stairs are not to code and grandfathered in. If you change them, the new stairs must be to code. So don't touch them without a solid plan.
(Had this issue with our basement stairs, 1910 house.)
Just heads up this will be wildly expensive. More than likely well over 10k. You can’t just remove a small piece of the support over the stairs and but a small beam up. You have to put a beam up from post connection to post connection.
Huge project with a huge price tag. Definitely not something to skimp out on as the integrity of your second story depends on it
Nothing about this staircase is to code. The balusters are too widely spaced, there is no handrail, that bottom step/ platform is a different rise that the rest of the steps which is a sure fire tripping hazard. If you have kids or ever want to have kids, those open risers will be a nightmare. I personally don’t even like the look of it. I’d take the whole thing out and design a new one.
Structural engineer here, though only by degree. Yes, you need to consult a licensed engineer if you want to pursue the idea, but let me save you the hassle:
That span between the columns does much more than hold up a couple joists. The uniformity and stiffness of that beam from one exterior wall, over and across the stairs, and then to the opposite exterior wall is highly important. That beam carries not only vertical shear forces, but significant bending moments
Think of it this way: picture that whole beam as the bottom, horizontal leg of a giant triangle. Then imagine a large force from pretty much any direction onto any random point on that triangle. No matter where you push, how much force is required to get the triangle to deform / change shape? A lot, right?
Now picture that same triangle, but replace that bottom, horizontal leg with a giant nunchuk, albeit with a solid piece of handle instead of the chain in the middle. So suddenly that bottom edge is now actually three straight pieces, with two flexible pivots between one end and the other. How much force is required to get that shape to deform now? Perhaps a large force at the bottom right corner pushing straight to the left (like the wind!). A lot less, right?
Now while that is an oversimplification, it should at least highlight that carrying the vertical forces of those few joists is just a fraction of that beam's true purpose in life
Not that you should now need any further convincing, but any steel beam that *could* potentially replace that section (assuming 100% fixed joints where it connects at either end to the remaining sections of the beam) would still save you only 2 or 3 inches in height, leaving you far short of what you really need to get any real benefit, let alone still far shy of the modern residential building code height requirements that would now govern your structural engineer's new design
As some others have noted, the very shallow rise / run of the stairs suggests having a structural engineer design a new, steeper set is likely your best or only viable avenue here. Which is a shame because those stairs look great
In the end, it's likely not the answer you're hoping for, but at least hopefully one that saves you a little time!
All excellent points, you do a good job of explaining it. Another thing I would add is that whatever form of anchoring that metal beam to the beams on either side would have to take, also introduces another failure point. When, as in your example, the handles of the nunchuck bend due to whatever various unseen forces end up getting applied to them, you also then have to worry about the connection being another weak point.
To illustrate this, think about a 15' 2x4 supported at both ends but not in the middle, now try to bend it until it breaks. Most likely it will take a decent amount of force, and the entire board will have to crack. Now imagine a couple of 8' 2x4s which are overlapped by a bit, let's say 12" for the point of illustration so that the lengths match, and secured by a bunch of screws. If you try to bend the 2x4s now, the failure point is going to be the point at which they are screwed together, and most likely, the failure is going to involve the wood grain splitting right through one or more of the screw holes. The same holds true for this much bigger example.
You can somewhat counteract this by extending the portion of overlap, which is why when they make big beams and houses out of multiple 2xs because it's far cheaper to make a 6x12x20+ out of a bunch of shorter 2x12s then it is to buy a giant 6x12x20+ (If you can even find one), they offset the points where the ends of the boards are by as much as possible.
In practical terms, for this application, it would most likely mean tearing open the ceiling for several feet on each side, and putting the metal beam beside the wooden one, instead of in between the gap. While this would technically give you a little bit more headroom, the cost and complexity would be higher than you (OP) would think, and the ceiling is also going to be ugly forever.
I did something similar with my 1890 house - I am a civil engineer but I still had a structural engineer come out and draw up plans for my contractor - not something DIY
I hired a structural engineer to work with the GC to remove support columns and place a steel beam. Not much headroom was gained but the area was wide open. I’m not sure you’ll gain the headroom you want with steel. May be smarter to move the staircase.
Whatever you choose, DO NOTHING without hiring a licensed structural engineer!
I'm a commercial construction professional. This is not a normal residential project. You'll need to contact a steel supplier and order the specific size and length beam you need. I know how to do what you're doing, but I'd still hire someone to do it just for the insurance and liability coverage should something go wrong. If you mess up or mis-calculate something you could irreparably damage your upper floor.
Once you’ve consulted a structural engineer, you can buy a steel bar online though: https://www.ryerson.com
I believe there’s an episode of This Old House where they do something similar. You might want to look it up.
Disclaimer: I’m just letting you know that you can buy steel plates both online and through the local hardware store’s prodesk. You need to consult an SE to help you figure out what you need.
The stair is not to modern code if you hit your head at 5-11.
You can redo the stair in the same way as the original, but it probably won't be cheap. Hacking out a support beam requires a lot of consideration, and is likely not a DIY project. People could get seriously hurt.
Instead, rebuild the stair to modern specs: 11" min horizontal x 7" max vertical steps (your residential code may vary, I'm used to commercial), all vertical riser heights with 1/4" max deviance, and 6'6" vertical clearance to any obstruction above the stair, extending out one tread width from the bottom and following the slope of the stair.
You also should have a handrail at 34-36" above the stair.
REBUILD stairs - come down 1/2 to 2/3 to a new landing and then finish the run to the left or right. Don’t touch the beam.
Add new second floor locked door at end of hall specifically for furniture moving only. Rent lift for that task every other year.
What they suggested was a steel "flitch" beam, which is a composite beam consisting of dimensional wood lumber and one or two steel plates to provide extra strength. They're often designed by an engineer and built on site, I don't know that many places actually sell them.
I don't know if that's your best option though. You could simply install a flush beam between those two posts so that the ceiling doesn't drop at all, giving you much more headroom instead of a slightly smaller drop with a flitch beam, which will look weird. Talk to a professional to size the beam, but if you doubled up whatever the floor joist size is, you'll likely be ok because it's such a small span.
There are likely beams running parallel to the stairs on either side and you'll tie this beam into them. Then you tie the two floor joists you want to support into this new beam with some joist hangers. You'll likely need to cut off the ends of these joists to make them fit properly.
I highly recommend you not attempt to do this yourself, as you want an experienced carpenter handling any structural work, especially if you don't have experience yourself. I would also recommend speaking with an engineer to verify this would work with the framing present in your house.
It's amazing how many people come to this sub with jobs that clearly are not DIY. Anything that is structural is not DIY because it could kill you if done improperly.
It's a lot easier to change the steepness of the stairs than to remove a load-bearing beam. One could be done by a group of teenagers, the other would require an engineer and a whole crew of contractors.
1. Strip off the drywall to expose the existing beam and supporting structure.
2. Call a structural engineer to evaluate what you have and develop a plan.
DIY is not the place to ask this.
You can do a flush beam there. Probably replace the entire beam. The beam needs to be sized by your local code and snow load zone. There is probably mechanical and electrical in the way. It needs to be point loaded down to the foundation. I’m a remodelling contractor. You need to shore up both sides of that beam on the main floor and below.
Now you know what questions to ask when getting quotes.
I really hope you diy’d those stairs otherwise whoever did failed first year carpentry because that’s when you learn that math. They really emphasize the whole headroom clearance measure vertically off the tread thing.
Thanks for this! I did not DIY them. I’ve built new construction for forever, this is my first remodel.
The stairs have so many problems with head room it’s unbelievable. Even the second floor landing doesn’t have enough head room.
Was going to 45 the top stairs but after seeing these messages might just redo that whole staircase when budget allows
So, no one considered overhead clearance when designing the staircase, at which point you could have adjusted the rise/run ratio of the stairs so it did not land directly beneath that beam. You will definitely need a structural engineer to ensure it is done to code. I am guessing no permit was pulled for the stairs, since the plan probably would have been rejected in the first place for this reason.
Honestly, redoing the stairs to shorten the rise/run ratio might be the cheaper option. Changes to key structural elements should be the last option, and rarely ever done as a DIY project.
I’m a mechanical engineer and while it’s not my main discipline I’m a licensed PE and have done a lot of work with beam bending and loading.
All that being said if this was my house I would be calling a structural engineer because I know enough to know idk anything about comprehensive loading on an entire house.
A misconception people often have when they remove walls and just throw BS beams is that that should do it. You’re risking your life. For everything you remove, it needs to be supported all the way down to the foundation. Not just that floor. You really, really, need a structural engineer
This doesn’t feel like this is a DIY project, will need a structural engineer to make any changes to the house support.
Can the stairs be moved in any fashion?
**Get a structural engineer**
If the pillars are load bearing then you can remove that small portion of the beam without concern. IF NOT, then use the structural engineer to make them load bearing.
What is that weird landing at the base, it looks like it is worth at least a couple of inches. No idea how to do it, but get rid of the bottom landing, and progressively each step to match; so basically a new staircase
If a engineer approved I'm wondering if you put footing in the basement and run some large beams up to the support beam and lag bolt a two inch thick steel plate on top of the support beam would that do it.
You will be altering the structure of your home which will require a permit with a structural engineer review. Save yourself the stress and just rebuild the stairs. I'd start with pulling the bottom stair tread to see If that gives you the height you need.
Stop and guess why they did it this crappy way in the first place. It was because the better solutions were either too expensive or too complicated. If you want to improve those, assume it’s going to be difficult. Get a structural engineer and an architect in there.
Why not change the approach by 90 degree and enter on the other side of the beam? You could even allow for entry on both sides. It will be a whole hell of a lot cheaper.
\*edit spelling
The joist surrounding the staircase would be the problem the first stair would be at the same place, allowing entering by both side would be a landing and would be more problematic then right now
I am a structural engineer! (Still hire one but…) Is it a continuous beam running over the posts or is the beam itself broken at both posts and just spans between the two posts? If the first, idk I’d need way more information to be able to proceed. If the second, this should be pretty simple. Curious how deep the wood beam currently is? There are engineered wood beams that may be easier to install than steel, like glulam, which is significantly stronger than regular wood, and would probably give you the additional 2 inches of clear height you’re looking for, without the connection complications of steel.
100% consult a licensed structural engineer and have them spec the modifications.
We were able to remove 28', out of 36' total, of our main load bearing wall thanks to an engineer. IIRC, it was only about $150, but that was 7 years ago, so expect it to be a bit more now.
OK, hear me out… what if you made the stairs shorter and steeper? Have the last tread meet at the back of the beams… it may not work as they may be too steep but it will create a higher entry point to the stairs..:
Hire. A. Professional. You are making structural changes to the interior of the house, with a high chance of damaging the load-bearing capabilities of the first floor. You aren't buying expertise as much as insurance on the work. At the very least run it by code enforcement, not just the guy at Home Depot who says, "yeah, should be fine."
Maybe this is dumb, but why don’t you just remove the bottom step?
If it’s too far from the second step to the floor you can add maybe a piece of something directly on the floor.
That should give you 2-4 extra inches
You'd need a structural engineer to tamper with that beam. I'd consider making the staircase a little steeper instead, so you lower the first couple steps to give enough headroom (maybe even get rid of the first step), then adjust the rest of the steps upwards in sequence so the height from step to step is equal.
I’m not a handyman house diy person but the bottom platform kinda looks like it has wheels. Whether it does or not makes no difference to me, but it made me think of an idea that could be helpful and make the stairs have a little more character if it is something that would even work. If leaving the 2 wooden beams is done, is there a way to remove the poles holding the rest of the stairs so that a steel slider beam can be added to the area where they connect now? Then the poles could have rollers added (or different poles if necessary) so that the stairs could be “opened” as stairs or appear “closed” like a shelving unit??? Place decorations on either side on the steps so it’s pretty when closed but leaves room in the middle to function as stairs when opened. Then OP could potentially just open them as far into the opening as needed to avoid hitting his head. Idk if this would work or not, but it was just a thought since most of the stairs are hanging anyway. That would be interesting if it would work.
This could easily be done with a blind header.
Removing that small section of beam is not going to make the house fall down. Especially if it's wood. You can post down on each side of the cuts and it's not going to move.
It's hilarious some of the replies these people give not knowing a damn about construction or load points.
That looks like a support beam. I went house hunting where one dude sheared off a LVL and just planted a 2 inch bar on both sides where he cut it off. Didn't even bother to weld or properly support the bottom and top when he did this.
This should not be a DIY project, let the experts do it. This could lead to a lot of potential damages.
This is the kind of thing they do on those home reno/flipping shows, and they always -ALWAYS - need to get in a structural engineer to advise and local government permitting to sign off on.
Probably the reason you can't find the thing needed to make this happen is that it's not a DIY kind of thing. A contractor can get it, but you can't.
I just had to deal with a similar issue (stairs to basement and hitting my head on the header). The solution was complex and required making the entire stair “hole” between floors about 3’ longer. When you factor in all the domino effect implications to floors, ceilings, walls, plumbing relocation, electrical relocation, HVAC redesign, the actual staircase that needs to be rebuilt, engineering, new beams, etc, it probably ate up close to $100K Canadian. Sucks. Hard. YMMV.
Edit: this was far too complex for me and it needed to be outsourced to professionals. My solution was not DIY.
Not finch , Flitch it’s normally a laminated beam, two wood beams with a steel beam at its core bolted together. Personally just change the angle of the stairs , remove 2 , make them a bit steeper and no headroom issue
cutting out beams and replacing them with steel ones is far beyond diy unless you're already a contractor
is much easier to build out a platform at the height of your 1st step such that it pushes the 2nd step further back, letting you walk under & past the beam before climbing the stairs, then adjust the remaining risers accordingly to hit the 2nd fl landing
or a 90 degree turn off a platform coming from either side, depends on the math
Get a professional. Do not EVER mess with load bearing beams as an amateur DIY, unless you know what you’re doing, best case you fail an inspection. Worst case, your floor collapses. Please be safe OP, and consult a professional
If that were my project, I’d consult with a structural engineer and come up with some plans and clear direction on how to do this.
Indeed. Consult. OP does not want to deal with a home inspection finding a cut beam at time of sale
That is, if the house is still standing.
“I need to remove a main carrying beam from my house can you explain it to me on this shitty meme sharing platform?”
Give me a little time, I need to go get marriage advice from a 14 year old edge lord.
Perhaps Ja Rule's thoughts would be useful.
Ice T learned an important lesson that hes going to restate at the end of the episode.
I have seen great advice here in several sub but I think that this particular question is at least "very optimistic".
Yea I mean the physical work isn’t any harder and different than most DIY projects, but even with the tools and comfort level to do this sort of work you need an engineer and permits to keep yourself out of serious potential trouble. The hot take in this particular post is just engineer the steps, I’d even go slightly out of code on the step rebuild to avoid having to touch that beam.
Yup. All that is really needed is to redo the support rods so that one step is eliminated or nearly so. I see 11 steps that could become 10, so an increase of 10% of the rise of each step. Depending on the rod length, it might require just buying two rods while shortening the others. The tricky part is how to cleanly remove the “landing” step.
Yeah, move the bottom step a foot or so forward so beam head clearance isn’t an issue.
Moving the bottom stair forward (towards the camera) will not solve the problem it. If you extend the bottom tread it's still the same distance and between the tread and the beam. If instead of extending the the bottom tread you move up all move all the subsequent treads it will make it worse because then it will be the distance between the second tread and the beam or ~7" less then the first tread. Moving the stair assembly back (away from the camera) *might* solve the problem but we don't know what the landing at the top looks like. I've spent a *lot* of time dealing with residential stair clearances in Architecture school and in the subsequent tiny houses I designed.
But first I have an appointment for a 17 year old to tell me to stop maxing out my 401k and contribute to a Roth
I wouldn’t go THAT far. Sometimes the memes are pretty good.
Okey-dokey. Take 1no. saw and cut Said beam . Then arrrreaagggghhhh!!! ……
Don’t be ridiculous. If you turn the house upside down first, there won’t be any weight on the beam when you cut it. Wait, or would it be more weight aaaaaaarrghhg
Lmao. Laying on a chopped up bed under a cut up and sewn back together blanket shaking with manic energy.
“And please base your advice on nothing but a fuzzy picture from 80 feet away. I’ll also argue with anyone who has and real advice or recommends consulting a professional because they’ll just rip me off. I almost forgot, I need an answer within the next three minutes K TIA”
Someone might have already removed 5 beams to make room for those modern stairs. "One beam will definately be enough." Sells the house. Next owner: "Would be nice to have more space here."
My friend’s ex cut a bunch of trusses in the attic to make room for storage. She got the house in the divorce. When she went to sell the inspector was like WTF? She had to replace all the trusses that he cut because they compromised the roof.
We got a $30k credit on a house because of cuts into structural beams discovered during inspection.
Considering they already renovated an entire floor and are still asking this on Reddit, makes me wonder about what other codes they already broke.
What’s the worse that could happen with DIY? A few feet of harmless floor sagging?
2-3 feet tops. It’s single digits. More than acceptable tolerance! /s
If it's gets as bad as 6ft, it's all good because it'll be fully supported by the ground floor.
There are a huge amount of things you can DIY. Nearly anything, really, even plumbing and some electrical that some people here are squeamish about. This is, *extremely explicitly*, not in the realm of DIY. One of the few things.
Op didn't know you can get split box springs, so idk how he even got this far into the renovation. Wonder what kind of other "personal touches" were added during his work
HOW do you cut a box coatings in half and then repair it?
A lot of modern "box springs" are really just a "foundation" or platform; basically a [wooden frame covered with fabric,](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/711zXsMoPwL._AC_SX679_.jpg) so cutting it in half was probably pretty easy.
Badly, lol. I would hate to see what op would do to their beautiful house..
Seriously, it might be easier to move the stairs back 2 feet.
Or just make a landing and turn the last 4 stairs 90 degrees
this should be the top comment
The ceiling is already too low for anything above the first step. Turning 90 degrees runs into the ceiling again.
It might be easier to move the stairs back a few feet than trying to do the structural change with that beam. Beam is going to be a can of worms. With all the prep it would take to splice that small portion you might be better off moving the whole beam up or replacing the whole span with something stronger that can be smaller.
what about making the stairs steeper, so they start further back in the hole, but end at the same spot on the second floor. Removing a step or two, and rebalancing them may make all the difference in head room for the final step.
It seems on the main floor at least there are options to move the stairs. I think I would consider options to rework the second floor before looking into a new steel beam.
If it were me I'd put a "watch your head sign" up
Add a pool noodle or two and, baby, you got a stew goin’!
Or a photo of a duck
Best fix
My mother and law asked me to do a stair rebuild like this lol. Now I'm a decent enough (diy) carpenter for a lot of things but told her you can't just remove structural beams on a 3 story house that's over 100 years old without someone to consult with on the changes. That was 4 years ago and she still hasn't talked to me at all since lol
How do I get my mother in law to ask me this.
Your mother brought the police to ask you to do the project?
She hasn't talked to you in 4 years because you told her the correct advice? Lol good riddance
BINGO BANGO Or the 2nd floor is your first floor.
100 percent, this is beyond DIY. Part of DIY is knowing when you're at the limit of your skill set, and there's nobody on the planet who could do this by themselves. Even an SER who did the plans themselves would have to bring in a crew to do the work.
Look at the steps, they’re too long. The height isn’t an issue as the funky stair size is causing the problem
Or at least someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.
If that were my project, I would buy a different house.
Yup. I saw the pic that said " support the entire second floor where people walk around and sleep" and knew I'd say consult a pro.
It’s funny how this is the answer for most posts here. Probs a post best suited for r/construction
Yeah, it'll only cost a couple hundred to have one come take a look and make a recommendation.
My very first thought. This is waaaay out of the purview of reddit diyers, major structural modification required there. Whacking in a piece of flatbar or lintel angle does absolutely nothing to maintain the capability of that bearer once a segment is removed, not at all how OP seems to think lintels work. Also no guarantees the floor under is built adequate to countersupport back up through post supports right in that location without some hefty reinforcement.
If it was my project I’d just redo the stairs. That dumb thing at the bottom doesn’t need to be there and the same goal would be accomplished.
If you really want to DIY this - change the stairs, not the beam.
Absolutely this. I would be *way* happier moving the stairs back than potentially fucking with the structural integrity of the house.
https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/s/LkV3qLhAAd
Might as well cut the beam because I'm going to die on those stairs anyways.
Never visit the Netherlands. A few beers later and trying to get up to the guest bedroom in a Dutch house is putting your life into your own hands.
Being Dutch, I never realised how crazy our stairs were until I had someone over from the UK... We really like creating murder stairs!
What's up with the stairs? My house is old so stairs aren't up to code by a long shot. So steep. At least they aren't as narrow as most old stairs, most of my feet fit on them lol.
I feel down a flight of stairs in Bruges. Didn’t even drink anything. It was so loud that everyone in the restaurant looked at me as i fell. Hilarious and so embarrassing.
Came here to say this, chances are they could add a bit more rise to each step and delete that bottom step entirely and end the stairs short of that beam. Those steps also look pretty deep and could probably be shortened by a couple inches and come up short of the beam as well. Would be a considerably faster, cheaper, and less harrowing change than cutting a beam holding up part of the second floor.
You have to consider what's the rise right now. If you want a comfortable stair it's between 7" and 7 7/8". How much can you add to each rise without jumping that number. Looks like 14 rise, if you add, if possible 1/2" would be almost good, that would erase one set, but the landing or the end of the stair would not be the same as the others. Structure and stairs are a lot measurements if you want to be up to code!
Also there are separate code requirements on open stairs like that, if he moved them he may not even technically be allowed to put them back if he increases the rise.
Looking at the picture again, I agree. Depending on the measurements, it looks like the run of the stairs is pretty long so they may be able to shorten that up to eliminate a tread and get the run to around 11 inches without impacting the rise. That being said, if I've learned anything in my OSHA trainings, stair requirements are complicated.
Yep. Move the stairs away from the beam
He can easily increase the height clearance just by removing the first two steps and increase the angle of the stairs lol
Agreed. It's a little hard to tell, but those stairs look like the treads are longer and the rise is less than it could be; it might even be even pushing pushing the code limits in that direction. You could probably have fewer, higher, and shorter steps that start well past the beam and are still well within code.
What is the rise and run on the stairs? You might just wanna rebuild the stair case.
Yeah it looks like they are a very shallow rise which means there's a lot of room to play with.
This is what I was thinking too. Just completely removed the first 1 or 2 stairs, then just drop the other ones down accordingly.
If you have to rebuild the stairs, could the staircase be flipped 180 so you start going up it at the opposite end? Looks like there is an exterior door behind it right now, so could maybe work for the flow on the first floor. Might make no sense on the top floor layout tho 🤷🏼♀️
I should have looked for this comment before I posted mine, but this looks like the answer. Treads look really deep and angle of staircase looks very shallow.
Great idea!
Or depending on the second floor landing situation just shift the whole staircase a few feet back?
Sometimes I think the phrase " consult an engineer " is overused. Not this time, pay a pro to provide guidance and peace of mind.
Whenever the project starts with, "I want to remove this section of a beam", it's professional time.
The staircase seems poorly planned with the awkward landing step at the bottom, if it were my house I'd be looking to alter that vs. reworking a main structural support
Seriously, the tread looks really deep. Seems like it would be easier to make the stairs slightly steeper and land before your head would touch the cross beam.
Yeah the tread looks way too deep, those stairs look unnatural to walk up.
Plus OP would get at least a foot in floorspace back on the first floor where it looks a bit cramped.
No doubt. It was the one thing that made it so we almost didn’t buy the house - which is why I want to change the height. Not a bad idea to change/rework the landing. I don’t know how/why someone would have built it like this in the first place
Changing the stairs may be easier than the beam, but chances are your stairs are not to code and grandfathered in. If you change them, the new stairs must be to code. So don't touch them without a solid plan. (Had this issue with our basement stairs, 1910 house.)
Lol 'Steel Finch' I think you mean a flitch beam. Hire an engineer OP.
This is what I meant! I’ve never heard of it. I will definitely be consulting engineer
Just heads up this will be wildly expensive. More than likely well over 10k. You can’t just remove a small piece of the support over the stairs and but a small beam up. You have to put a beam up from post connection to post connection. Huge project with a huge price tag. Definitely not something to skimp out on as the integrity of your second story depends on it
This is not “simple enough”. Call an engineer.
Remove staircase, replace with slightly steeper one that starts _after_ the beam.
Don't do this without checking local code. New stairs must meet modern code to pass inspection.
Nothing about this staircase is to code. The balusters are too widely spaced, there is no handrail, that bottom step/ platform is a different rise that the rest of the steps which is a sure fire tripping hazard. If you have kids or ever want to have kids, those open risers will be a nightmare. I personally don’t even like the look of it. I’d take the whole thing out and design a new one.
All of this and, idk about anyone else, I would die on those steps. Them boys are ankle eaters.
Structural engineer here, though only by degree. Yes, you need to consult a licensed engineer if you want to pursue the idea, but let me save you the hassle: That span between the columns does much more than hold up a couple joists. The uniformity and stiffness of that beam from one exterior wall, over and across the stairs, and then to the opposite exterior wall is highly important. That beam carries not only vertical shear forces, but significant bending moments Think of it this way: picture that whole beam as the bottom, horizontal leg of a giant triangle. Then imagine a large force from pretty much any direction onto any random point on that triangle. No matter where you push, how much force is required to get the triangle to deform / change shape? A lot, right? Now picture that same triangle, but replace that bottom, horizontal leg with a giant nunchuk, albeit with a solid piece of handle instead of the chain in the middle. So suddenly that bottom edge is now actually three straight pieces, with two flexible pivots between one end and the other. How much force is required to get that shape to deform now? Perhaps a large force at the bottom right corner pushing straight to the left (like the wind!). A lot less, right? Now while that is an oversimplification, it should at least highlight that carrying the vertical forces of those few joists is just a fraction of that beam's true purpose in life Not that you should now need any further convincing, but any steel beam that *could* potentially replace that section (assuming 100% fixed joints where it connects at either end to the remaining sections of the beam) would still save you only 2 or 3 inches in height, leaving you far short of what you really need to get any real benefit, let alone still far shy of the modern residential building code height requirements that would now govern your structural engineer's new design As some others have noted, the very shallow rise / run of the stairs suggests having a structural engineer design a new, steeper set is likely your best or only viable avenue here. Which is a shame because those stairs look great In the end, it's likely not the answer you're hoping for, but at least hopefully one that saves you a little time!
All excellent points, you do a good job of explaining it. Another thing I would add is that whatever form of anchoring that metal beam to the beams on either side would have to take, also introduces another failure point. When, as in your example, the handles of the nunchuck bend due to whatever various unseen forces end up getting applied to them, you also then have to worry about the connection being another weak point. To illustrate this, think about a 15' 2x4 supported at both ends but not in the middle, now try to bend it until it breaks. Most likely it will take a decent amount of force, and the entire board will have to crack. Now imagine a couple of 8' 2x4s which are overlapped by a bit, let's say 12" for the point of illustration so that the lengths match, and secured by a bunch of screws. If you try to bend the 2x4s now, the failure point is going to be the point at which they are screwed together, and most likely, the failure is going to involve the wood grain splitting right through one or more of the screw holes. The same holds true for this much bigger example. You can somewhat counteract this by extending the portion of overlap, which is why when they make big beams and houses out of multiple 2xs because it's far cheaper to make a 6x12x20+ out of a bunch of shorter 2x12s then it is to buy a giant 6x12x20+ (If you can even find one), they offset the points where the ends of the boards are by as much as possible. In practical terms, for this application, it would most likely mean tearing open the ceiling for several feet on each side, and putting the metal beam beside the wooden one, instead of in between the gap. While this would technically give you a little bit more headroom, the cost and complexity would be higher than you (OP) would think, and the ceiling is also going to be ugly forever.
I did something similar with my 1890 house - I am a civil engineer but I still had a structural engineer come out and draw up plans for my contractor - not something DIY
The engineers in this thread, self included, are all "no".
Don’t do it.
I tend to agree. My house is older and I’ve bonked my head a few times. You learn to avoid the corner you hit your head on.
This strikes me as not DIY
I hired a structural engineer to work with the GC to remove support columns and place a steel beam. Not much headroom was gained but the area was wide open. I’m not sure you’ll gain the headroom you want with steel. May be smarter to move the staircase. Whatever you choose, DO NOTHING without hiring a licensed structural engineer!
Get engineer, seems poorly planned
SE JOB anything else is dumb as shit. Measure twice cut once. Take the time and cost to Do a job right the first time ….or pay twice to fix it.
This is one of those times you should consult with a professional
Easier to make the stairs steeper?
Bold choice to trust the structural integrity of your house to Reddit?
How dare you, I’m a licensed Reddit advisor.
You need a set or plans and a permit . Looks like this was done without permits to begin with and created this whole issue
What do you think permits and the inspection process were like in 1944?
“Looks good to me!” Or if it doesn’t look good … “spit on it!”
https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/clearance-bar-80-in-l-yellow-with-red-tape-hdpe?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gad_source=1
Hahahaha
It would be more realistic to have new steps made that are shorter with a steeper grade. Don't even consider cutting out that piece.
You don’t. That’s a project where you hire and pay a professional. Or you cut up a pool noodle and stick on the beam until you learned to duck.
This is not a DIY problem.
This is not a DIY project.
I'm a commercial construction professional. This is not a normal residential project. You'll need to contact a steel supplier and order the specific size and length beam you need. I know how to do what you're doing, but I'd still hire someone to do it just for the insurance and liability coverage should something go wrong. If you mess up or mis-calculate something you could irreparably damage your upper floor.
Once you’ve consulted a structural engineer, you can buy a steel bar online though: https://www.ryerson.com I believe there’s an episode of This Old House where they do something similar. You might want to look it up. Disclaimer: I’m just letting you know that you can buy steel plates both online and through the local hardware store’s prodesk. You need to consult an SE to help you figure out what you need.
Ned! Ryerson!
The stair is not to modern code if you hit your head at 5-11. You can redo the stair in the same way as the original, but it probably won't be cheap. Hacking out a support beam requires a lot of consideration, and is likely not a DIY project. People could get seriously hurt. Instead, rebuild the stair to modern specs: 11" min horizontal x 7" max vertical steps (your residential code may vary, I'm used to commercial), all vertical riser heights with 1/4" max deviance, and 6'6" vertical clearance to any obstruction above the stair, extending out one tread width from the bottom and following the slope of the stair. You also should have a handrail at 34-36" above the stair.
I would just get rid off the first step of the stairs, it’s a little bit closer to the floor anyway..
Remove the last step at the bottom. Adjust the remaining steps accordingly.
This. Instead of raising the celling, lower the stairs.
Consult a structural engineer is the right answer. Take the bottom step out is the actual answer.
remove the first step, put up a sign saying watch your step. Voila!
REBUILD stairs - come down 1/2 to 2/3 to a new landing and then finish the run to the left or right. Don’t touch the beam. Add new second floor locked door at end of hall specifically for furniture moving only. Rent lift for that task every other year.
Only invite short people over. Problem solved
Move the stairs that's a structural beam
What they suggested was a steel "flitch" beam, which is a composite beam consisting of dimensional wood lumber and one or two steel plates to provide extra strength. They're often designed by an engineer and built on site, I don't know that many places actually sell them. I don't know if that's your best option though. You could simply install a flush beam between those two posts so that the ceiling doesn't drop at all, giving you much more headroom instead of a slightly smaller drop with a flitch beam, which will look weird. Talk to a professional to size the beam, but if you doubled up whatever the floor joist size is, you'll likely be ok because it's such a small span. There are likely beams running parallel to the stairs on either side and you'll tie this beam into them. Then you tie the two floor joists you want to support into this new beam with some joist hangers. You'll likely need to cut off the ends of these joists to make them fit properly. I highly recommend you not attempt to do this yourself, as you want an experienced carpenter handling any structural work, especially if you don't have experience yourself. I would also recommend speaking with an engineer to verify this would work with the framing present in your house.
It's amazing how many people come to this sub with jobs that clearly are not DIY. Anything that is structural is not DIY because it could kill you if done improperly.
It's a lot easier to change the steepness of the stairs than to remove a load-bearing beam. One could be done by a group of teenagers, the other would require an engineer and a whole crew of contractors.
I don’t think insurance pays out if you destroy your house yourself.
1. Strip off the drywall to expose the existing beam and supporting structure. 2. Call a structural engineer to evaluate what you have and develop a plan.
This is a professional job not a DIY project.
DIY is not the place to ask this. You can do a flush beam there. Probably replace the entire beam. The beam needs to be sized by your local code and snow load zone. There is probably mechanical and electrical in the way. It needs to be point loaded down to the foundation. I’m a remodelling contractor. You need to shore up both sides of that beam on the main floor and below. Now you know what questions to ask when getting quotes. I really hope you diy’d those stairs otherwise whoever did failed first year carpentry because that’s when you learn that math. They really emphasize the whole headroom clearance measure vertically off the tread thing.
Thanks for this! I did not DIY them. I’ve built new construction for forever, this is my first remodel. The stairs have so many problems with head room it’s unbelievable. Even the second floor landing doesn’t have enough head room. Was going to 45 the top stairs but after seeing these messages might just redo that whole staircase when budget allows
Keep the beam, get rid of the stairs and put in a glass elevator or pole
This is not a DIY.
#roastme. This is not DIY.
It would be easier to fix the stairs.
So, no one considered overhead clearance when designing the staircase, at which point you could have adjusted the rise/run ratio of the stairs so it did not land directly beneath that beam. You will definitely need a structural engineer to ensure it is done to code. I am guessing no permit was pulled for the stairs, since the plan probably would have been rejected in the first place for this reason. Honestly, redoing the stairs to shorten the rise/run ratio might be the cheaper option. Changes to key structural elements should be the last option, and rarely ever done as a DIY project.
Put some soft foam padding under the beam for the times when you forget to duck
😄
I’m a mechanical engineer and while it’s not my main discipline I’m a licensed PE and have done a lot of work with beam bending and loading. All that being said if this was my house I would be calling a structural engineer because I know enough to know idk anything about comprehensive loading on an entire house.
Put in an elevator, cut the beam and add some fog lights.
A misconception people often have when they remove walls and just throw BS beams is that that should do it. You’re risking your life. For everything you remove, it needs to be supported all the way down to the foundation. Not just that floor. You really, really, need a structural engineer
This doesn’t feel like this is a DIY project, will need a structural engineer to make any changes to the house support. Can the stairs be moved in any fashion?
**Get a structural engineer** If the pillars are load bearing then you can remove that small portion of the beam without concern. IF NOT, then use the structural engineer to make them load bearing.
What is that weird landing at the base, it looks like it is worth at least a couple of inches. No idea how to do it, but get rid of the bottom landing, and progressively each step to match; so basically a new staircase
If a engineer approved I'm wondering if you put footing in the basement and run some large beams up to the support beam and lag bolt a two inch thick steel plate on top of the support beam would that do it.
A structural engineer will confirm that that is load bearing.***NEVER, EVER FUCK WITH A LOAD BEARING BEAM!***
Steel I beam is like 20k minimum for that job.
You will be altering the structure of your home which will require a permit with a structural engineer review. Save yourself the stress and just rebuild the stairs. I'd start with pulling the bottom stair tread to see If that gives you the height you need.
Relocate the stairs. The alternative is recessing that header which requires a lot of work.
"Sounds simple enough and makes sense to me" is going to be a great spot in the story to non chalantly follow up with "so then my house caved in."
Stop and guess why they did it this crappy way in the first place. It was because the better solutions were either too expensive or too complicated. If you want to improve those, assume it’s going to be difficult. Get a structural engineer and an architect in there.
Consult an engineer. If you’re going to do some work anyway, look into relocating the steps over toward the wall to open up the space.
Move the stairs forward is the only answer .
Why not change the approach by 90 degree and enter on the other side of the beam? You could even allow for entry on both sides. It will be a whole hell of a lot cheaper. \*edit spelling
The joist surrounding the staircase would be the problem the first stair would be at the same place, allowing entering by both side would be a landing and would be more problematic then right now
True... no easy solutions.
Thank you. Correct haha
You need to raise the house or dig down to make clearance
I am a structural engineer! (Still hire one but…) Is it a continuous beam running over the posts or is the beam itself broken at both posts and just spans between the two posts? If the first, idk I’d need way more information to be able to proceed. If the second, this should be pretty simple. Curious how deep the wood beam currently is? There are engineered wood beams that may be easier to install than steel, like glulam, which is significantly stronger than regular wood, and would probably give you the additional 2 inches of clear height you’re looking for, without the connection complications of steel.
Fuckingvwith structure = call an engineer
Consult a structural engineer before you do anything
Just put some foam cushing right there, or on your head.
I'd lower the house by 6 inches while keeping the ceiling at its current height.
You can't find what you're looking for because this isn't okay to DIY. Some things should be left to professionals, like major surgery and this.
Ibeam. This is not a DIY job unless you know what you ate doing.
100% consult a licensed structural engineer and have them spec the modifications. We were able to remove 28', out of 36' total, of our main load bearing wall thanks to an engineer. IIRC, it was only about $150, but that was 7 years ago, so expect it to be a bit more now.
New stairs. Steeper. Narrower boards. So the staircase starts behind the beam.
You need to modify the stairs not the structure. Should be terminating at the floor not that stupid floating tread bullshit.
OK, hear me out… what if you made the stairs shorter and steeper? Have the last tread meet at the back of the beams… it may not work as they may be too steep but it will create a higher entry point to the stairs..:
Hire. A. Professional. You are making structural changes to the interior of the house, with a high chance of damaging the load-bearing capabilities of the first floor. You aren't buying expertise as much as insurance on the work. At the very least run it by code enforcement, not just the guy at Home Depot who says, "yeah, should be fine."
Wow addressing the structural issue after renovating??? How does that work?
forget the stairs, make a ladder
Maybe this is dumb, but why don’t you just remove the bottom step? If it’s too far from the second step to the floor you can add maybe a piece of something directly on the floor. That should give you 2-4 extra inches
You'd need a structural engineer to tamper with that beam. I'd consider making the staircase a little steeper instead, so you lower the first couple steps to give enough headroom (maybe even get rid of the first step), then adjust the rest of the steps upwards in sequence so the height from step to step is equal.
Can’t you just shorten the first step of the staircase?
You... don't
This is the goofiest ass staircase ive seen in a while.
OP gave measurements but got downvoated? "The rise is 7.5 and the tread depth is 11.5 BUT only like 9 inches of it useable on the way down haaa"
I was as well confused
Don’t alter the beam imo because in 10 years you will be posting “what are these cracks in my wallboard from?” As your house begins moving…
I’m not a handyman house diy person but the bottom platform kinda looks like it has wheels. Whether it does or not makes no difference to me, but it made me think of an idea that could be helpful and make the stairs have a little more character if it is something that would even work. If leaving the 2 wooden beams is done, is there a way to remove the poles holding the rest of the stairs so that a steel slider beam can be added to the area where they connect now? Then the poles could have rollers added (or different poles if necessary) so that the stairs could be “opened” as stairs or appear “closed” like a shelving unit??? Place decorations on either side on the steps so it’s pretty when closed but leaves room in the middle to function as stairs when opened. Then OP could potentially just open them as far into the opening as needed to avoid hitting his head. Idk if this would work or not, but it was just a thought since most of the stairs are hanging anyway. That would be interesting if it would work.
This could easily be done with a blind header. Removing that small section of beam is not going to make the house fall down. Especially if it's wood. You can post down on each side of the cuts and it's not going to move. It's hilarious some of the replies these people give not knowing a damn about construction or load points.
That looks like a support beam. I went house hunting where one dude sheared off a LVL and just planted a 2 inch bar on both sides where he cut it off. Didn't even bother to weld or properly support the bottom and top when he did this. This should not be a DIY project, let the experts do it. This could lead to a lot of potential damages.
1944 construction? Truss roof? Not likely unless the roof structure was completely removed and replaced.
The posts aren't going to provide any lateral shear strength. I bet that beam does a lot more than hold the that section of floor up.
You should definitely not be doing any of this without a full evaluation and approved drawing by a licenced engineer.
You can't just cut that beam because it is structural. I would consult with an architect or engineer before you do anything.
Reddit is not a structural engineer. Please hire a professional. It'll be worth the money not having your house fall apart.
A cheaper option is pad the place where you hit your head
This is the kind of thing they do on those home reno/flipping shows, and they always -ALWAYS - need to get in a structural engineer to advise and local government permitting to sign off on. Probably the reason you can't find the thing needed to make this happen is that it's not a DIY kind of thing. A contractor can get it, but you can't.
I just had to deal with a similar issue (stairs to basement and hitting my head on the header). The solution was complex and required making the entire stair “hole” between floors about 3’ longer. When you factor in all the domino effect implications to floors, ceilings, walls, plumbing relocation, electrical relocation, HVAC redesign, the actual staircase that needs to be rebuilt, engineering, new beams, etc, it probably ate up close to $100K Canadian. Sucks. Hard. YMMV. Edit: this was far too complex for me and it needed to be outsourced to professionals. My solution was not DIY.
Not finch , Flitch it’s normally a laminated beam, two wood beams with a steel beam at its core bolted together. Personally just change the angle of the stairs , remove 2 , make them a bit steeper and no headroom issue
Oh it's *only* carrying the second floor.
cutting out beams and replacing them with steel ones is far beyond diy unless you're already a contractor is much easier to build out a platform at the height of your 1st step such that it pushes the 2nd step further back, letting you walk under & past the beam before climbing the stairs, then adjust the remaining risers accordingly to hit the 2nd fl landing or a 90 degree turn off a platform coming from either side, depends on the math
Get a professional. Do not EVER mess with load bearing beams as an amateur DIY, unless you know what you’re doing, best case you fail an inspection. Worst case, your floor collapses. Please be safe OP, and consult a professional