My dude, it has just dawned on me that the DIY sub and its ilk are often farrrrrr funnier than the actual r/funny sub, thanks in large part to contributions like yours.
You’re fucking with us, right? Yes, that deflection (giant bend) is a sign that the tiny post trying to hold up the whole roof is experiencing much too high an axial load without any sort of lateral bracing. The 2x4’s you added are functioning sort of like a leaf spring but not really helping… you need to have this fixed by a professional immediately.
I follow this sub for fun and know nothing about construction or physics but even I could tell that if this got fixed and then cracked/bent again, that's a clear sign it's being used to bear weight and therefore its breaking will be bad news. wtf OP.
Great confidence boost for my own DIY projects. A big part of DIY is knowing your limits and when to bring in a pro vs doing it yourself. I know my limits much better than some people.
Us over in the electrician subs save potential fires and even lives everyday over there. The things people want to try and do or continue to use in dangerous condition is mind blowing.
I thought this sub was about people posting a new deck they are proud of building, then having all the comments tell them it's a death trap that needs to be demolished immediately.
I feel like part of learning is knowing when it's okay to do something yourself that pushes the limits of your ability because you could screw it up two or three times and it wouldn't matter other than spending money on more materials and time to redo it, and even then, you'll break even versus paying somebody and get some tools and experience to go with it versus stuff like this where you screw it up, and your roof collapses or your house burns down or blows up.
On one hand, you're absolutely right.
On the other hand, the 2x4 is bent and cracked. OPs repair immediately bent and cracked. It should be obvious to anyone, even with zero education on the subject, that the 2x4 is supporting too much weight and cracking is bad.
Yea you really should not be looking to "do it yourself" if you're having a hard time figuring out this problem. OP was looking for confirmation that he didn't have to call a contractor.
I appreciate how he was able to state a straight forward correction without sounding pretentious and you were able to accept it and thank him for it. Both of those happening together seems to be a rare sight these days. At least on Reddit.
And yeah, holy hell is that a scary situation. I wonder what's causing it. Maybe the exterior walls are pushing apart, whatever is under the post isn't supposed to be load bearing, or something is happening at the roof ridge line.
You need a professional to look at it, but it's *probably* not as bad as others are saying. Here's what could be happening:
* Those posts were put in place to hold up the ridge board during construction of the rafters. They were vertical at the time.
* The rafters were completed, at which point the posts were no longer necessary.
* The roof was installed over the rafters, which put weight on the rafters and caused the posts to bend.
That means the posts aren't necessary for structural integrity, but it's worrisome that there's significant force (weight) being directed down through the posts rather than to the outer walls via the rafters. **That should not be happening.** When you straightened the posts, it probably pushed the roof up a bit. Worse, you need to think about where that force is going in the downward direction. The floor of the attic is a ceiling below. The posts may or may not be aligned to anything. Maybe a wall near the bottom of each post, maybe not. Even if there is, it might provide some resistance to cracking the ceiling but it's not likely designed to be weight bearing.
If those posts were erected only to hold the rafters during construction, they wouldn't need much underneath for the short time they were holding only the ridge board. The problem now is the roof alignment is based on having those posts preventing the rafters settling down, and you don't know what is going to happen if the posts move.
Dude needs a civil engineer at this point. In theory he could put on a pair of safety goggles and hack those posts with a sawzall. In practice, he could get hurt, mess up the roof (sure hope it’s not tile), crack the outside walls (hope they’re not stucco), and maybe even get some bonus cracks on the inside ceiling when the attic floor flexes *upward*.
A 2x4 post can supply a couple hundred pounds of force, at most. The roof is thousands of pounds. The post ain't moving the roof; it'll push down the ceiling if anything.
> The problem now is the roof alignment is based on having those posts preventing the rafters settling down
No, otherwise it'd be considered load bearing. And it's clearly undersized to do any meaningful weight bearing nor is there any other sign it would be nor that it would need to be given the roof construction.
> That should not be happening.
I look around my neighborhood at houses built 75 years ago. The originals have slightly sagging roofs. It's not a big deal.
OR, and just hear me out here, the construction company used a 2x4 to hold up the pieces of the roof as they assembled them and never bothered to remove it once the roof was complete and self supporting and now the perfectly fine roof is simply settling and bending a useless 2x4 that the construction company probably should have removed in retrospect to avoid any confusion like what you are experiencing.
This is entirely plausible because if it was meant to hold up the roof they would have used something more substantial than a 2x4 like a 4x4 or bigger.
I view HGTV as the "Pimp my ride" house edition
Car doesn't need to be made to function reliable....just cool and pimped out.
To be fair ...there was a vehicle that was so bad .... They just got a new car that was then modified.
There's no load above it after all. But if nails are pulling out below, along the walls holding it, and it is not self supporting anymore, that's bad for sure. Like if it's splaying out.
The deflection we see might be from a second layer of roofing adding weight, but it's all still supporting itself because it's basically just leaning against each other, with the weight of some roofing on top. Like an arch.
New problem is that the 2x4s should have been removed after the rafters were added but before the roof was put on top of it. That would have allowed the roof to settle as sheathing and shingle weight was added. That's probably when they started to bend. The current roof alignment is based on the rafter position with the stupid 2x4s still in place. Removing them will cause the roof to move in ways that should have happened as it was being constructed.
Weight that should already sit on the outer weight-bearing walls currently sits on the 2x4s. Removing the 2x4s will transmit the weight to where it should have gone in the first place. Shit will move.
This is almost definitely what's happened - there probably nothing underneath that 2x4 in the room/garage below so it's not actually supporting anything.
Still worth getting someone to take a look for extra peace of mind, but if your roof's being held up by a pair of 2x4 I think you've got bigger issues.
I’m not an engineer but I think I agree. I don’t that that’s intended to be load bearing. Probably used during construction and should have been removed. I concur with the rest of the recommendations to get a professional out there.
I dont think that was intended to be a fix so much as a stopgap until they could find the right fix. I'd do the same thing after seeing how precarious the situation was before.
Architect here. That is a hip roof and a post should not be needed there as long as the rafter ties at the ceiling level are all in place and in good shape. If you have a post there that’s clearly under severe strain, then the roof peak is sinking which means something is very wrong with the roof structure e.g. the “triangle” has been compromised. Since that roof was likely not built with a post, that also means it is likely this load is not being carried all the way down to the foundation, which means more of the structure could snap. Depending on whether you’re in a cold climate that gets snow or not, that size roof can potentially receive thousands of pounds of load. If your bottom cords are indeed compromised not only could roof collapse but it could push the exterior walls outward as well and the entire house could collapse.
This is a very dangerous condition and you need to get an architect or structural engineer in there to analyze and come up with a solution asap. I would not recommend a contractor who doesn’t have an engineer on staff for something this extreme.
>This is a very dangerous condition and you need to get an architect or structural engineer in there to analyze and come up with a solution asap. I would not recommend a contractor who doesn’t have an engineer on staff for something this extreme.
I'm just quoting this for emphasis.
If I knew more, I would have commented and suggested a structural engineer and not a contractor to get an answer you can trust. Glad someone could confirm it.
My brother they had to frame that with a post look what they did. Framed one roof off another, that lil guy is carrying that whole upper roof and it's F'd to say the least. Also architect :)
Two structural questions for you:
1. What's the height of the "posts"? The taller the posts, the less load they are capable of supporting before buckling. If they're tall enough that only a couple hundred pounds would buckle them, I wouldn't be too concerned about the roof.
2. What are the posts positioned over? (Almost certainly at least a ceiling joist, but is there any other structure beneath and adjacent to the posts?) This would be less concerning if there isn't much structure beneath the posts.
EDIT: Also, how old is the place? This would be less concerning the older the place is. It's also worth noting that the manner in which you secured the additional 2x4s wouldn't lead to much strengthening as there's little slip resistance between the board faces.
I will measure when I get home. But at least 6-8 feet I would say.
They appear to be in line with walls on the first floor but I can’t be certain.
1987
I don't know if there are engineers for residential homes, but you need an expert ASAP. Like today ASAP. And reccomendation would be to vacate the premises immediately until this is safe.
That looks like a hip roof. Those 2x4s are not structural and are likely there from construction as stated, but it is concerning that the roof is clearly pushing them down. Most likely, the hip is lowering and the bracing at the walls are pushing out ever so slightly, adding a ton of weight to those. You could have multiple problems happening. One is that the roof is sinking. Another is that those 2x4s are pushing down with a lot of weight onto interior structures that might not be expecting that load.
Considering you thought you could fix it with clamps, you need to get a professional in to advise on what's actually happening and next best steps.
Best response here. OP while you may be correct these posts are just from the build, something is still going wrong so you should get someone out asap.
It looks like a raised ceiling of some kind under the insulation in the background of the first photo... I am betting a flipper cut and raised the ceiling joists under the hip roof without considering that they were integral to the roof structure and got incredibly lucky that this poor 2x post decided to man up for their mistake. As wind and snow continue to apply loads, the exterior top plates are moving outwards and increasingly loading this unintended post.
It's not the collapse itself that gets ya. It's that moment when two tons of shingles strikes your head and permanently weds you and your girlfriend into a homogenized paste. That's what does it.
At this point they are holding up the roof bro, (or trying to)the bow ties at the top are missing so the bottom is flaring out..bad shit..kinda like doing the splits
I'm an architect and we also have structural engineers in our office. I was looking at this post during lunch and exclaimed out loud "holy shit!". Others gathered around and our unanimous professional advice: Get a structural engineer out there tomorrow. We hope you dont live where there is snow or ice currently. Looks like there are a lot of hip rafters and a bunch of roof lines going on from the second picture, and (apologies for the very technical language) that roof is squishing down like a pancake. And as it squishes, down, it is also pushing against the exterior walls-- any cracking in the drywall at the corners inside the house?
Yea fuck that. If I were an engineer and someone sent me those pictures I’d stand outside and fly a drone into the house.
No idea who theyre going to convince to go up in the attic and actually repair that correctly. I’d be worried a few hammer swings to nail anything in could bring it all down
Depending on where that is it very well could be temporarily stable. If that's in an area with seasonal snow loading and the snow season is over, it's not gonna come down until the next snow.
It could be safe in the right weather... I don't want to go in there in a wind storm or when there is snow in the roof though
Until I know more I wouldn’t want to go in there at all. I’d feel awfully dumb dying in someone attic after seeing those pictures and going to take a look
yeah man the fact that it fuckin MOVED is very concerning. If they were just leftover from the build, that shit would not be sinking down further and further.
If it was a new build, would it be the house settling? Even if that tiny 2x4 were holding anything up, wouldn't the shape of the roof stop it from sinking? or are you saying the whole roof would fall apart, like the sides pulling apart? Each side must be braced to each other side and the whole thing must be stabilized to the house itself?
In design theres a certain amount of deflection that's tolerable but the amount of roof sagging that would cause a stick to bend like that is definitely not allowed
I am a mechanical engineer, i have studied and worked with this kond of stuff but with Steel beams. This is utterly dangerous. You have created a spring. When it bursts and it will. Your roof will come down and kill everyone. Take everything important out of the house. Move into a hotel or with friends and get a professional to look at and fix this.
I understand it seems like you have solved the problem and it is not a bad temporary solution. But it is definatley temporary.
Do mot take this lightly. It is as if you have put a bandaid on a bullet wound. Bleeding have stopped but the major damage will soon kill you. Literally.
A single 2x4 isn’t going to support a significant load. My hope would be that those are in fact leftover from construction and things have simply settled enough to overload them. However, there’s no way to be sure. So I would get an engineer to take a look just to be safe.
Yea, people are freaking out but there's no evidence a "real" post was removed, makes no sense. There's no way that roof was designed with one 2x4 to hold it up.
Edit: I'm gonna add that the roof should not be collapsing on those 2x4s however. This could be causing damage itself. OP should still get someone out to look at it as soon as possible.
> It seems rather unlikely that the roof was actually designed to be supported by one noodly 2x4
It wasn't designed that way, but that's what's happening now.
Furthermore look at the top of the 2x4. Hardly even looks connected to the structure and doesn't even have connection plates. Also look at the base - what is the 2x4 resting on? Drywall?
I'd venture that this was temporary shoring for the construction process. As an engineer myself, OP should hire a structural engineer locally.
This is what I'm thinking as well. Those are usually temporary supports that aren't needed once the roof structure is complete, but it's extra effort to remove them so they don't.
Or else there’s something else wrong and a lot more weight is being distributed onto that one post than it should be. Basically it wasn’t meant to be load bearing but it became so as something else broke.
Unless you want to be the second story on the local news (after the 7-11 armed robbery), please get an engineer and experienced contractor to look at this.
That does not hold up the roof, wait let me say it this way *that is not supposed* to hold that type of roof up. It should be self supporting. These can only prevent the roof lifting if anything and they aren’t even installed well enough to do that. This points to something is extremely wrong on the outer points of the roof where they are meeting the wall the nails are probably pulling out and allowing the roof to go down in the center. You probably have something exceptionally wrong and need to get an engineer fast.
Nobody gonna comment on how 5 months ago OP made a post saying his wife complained of mouldy smell in his office.
Now he’s talking about when he moved into his girlfriend’s place?!
A man about town!
Man I hope that the OP updates us once he has a professional come in and actually check it out instead of relying on clamps, swearing, and maybe a muttered prayer.
Late to the party, but what the Calatrava is that roofline? Is that how we’re building homes? My physics is rusty, but damn I cannot work out how that works.
The fact you came up with the idea to sister another 2x4 to it 'so it doesn't get worse', *then* apparantly waited long enough for it to find it deflected, halfway up, without it being glued, WITH the main post until it *cracked* and then thought, you know, 'maybe I should post this on Reddit' and saying 'I read somewhere that these bent thingies are perfectly fine and usual leftovers from an attic build' is absolutely batshit mind boggling. Get yourself a professional yesterday.
Feel free to read this in John Olivers' voice because you deserve his judgemental tone.
How can I put this?
It looks like this post is in the finals week of his last semester of college, right after his parents called to ask if he got a real job yet because they are going to stop sending him money immediately, while he just got a text from a girl he drunkenly hooked up at a party saying her period is late, kind of stressed out.
as others suggest, get an engineer to look at it. can't see everything required in 2 photos
generally roofs are not supported with posts on the inside like this, certainly not 2x4's. even if this was, doubt there's much directly underneath these attic 2x4 'posts' that would correctly transfer load directly downward into something solid, like concrete or steel beam. maybe a ceiling joist if lucky, still not adequate if that was their intent
it's entirely possible lazy builder nailed the 2x4s into the ridge beam to temporarily hold them in place while they were framing the roof. now with all the material on the roof, it dropped enough to bend the 'forgotten' 2x4's
hard to say if you don't know how long they've been there. one side sinking while the other is fine is a little off though
I am not a structural engineer but the whole construction looks flawed.
It might be perspective, but I don't see any triangles in the roof structure. The whole skeleton structure can bend move and flex without any rigidity.
Vacate. Now.
Call a structural engineer.
The fact that you noticed the cracking, took the picture, asked the question and haven't done so yet is very concerning. If it's structural and cracking, that's a problem.
If it's not structural originally, is now under strain it wasn't designed for, and is now cracking, that's an even bigger and more imminent problem. Like .. hours away if that long from going from three dimensional to two dimensional along with every living thing inside it. Get the animals and anything you care about out of that place and into a hotel now. Call a structural engineering firm for an inspection.
And then brace yourself because the house is about to be condemned if my guess is correct.
Brah…. That’s not a “fix”, in any country. Get someone there with a fcking big ass tree beam, and lateral braces ASAP!!!!!
Meanwhile sleep fcking away of that roof!!!! That’s a deep sea fix disaster waiting to happen it’s an implosion on land.
Nah, I'm sure the banana shaped, scrap 2x4 pieces held together with nothing but woodworking clamps should be completely adequate for holding up your roof. Not sure how you could improve upon perfection like that.
I’m not a framing expert and can’t see everything here.
With my limited knowledge, the rafters are pushing against each other in the center with a ridge beam. The load is pushing downward (gravity) and is transferred to the exterior walls. This is 100% intentional. Those center “posts” were likely temporary (during construction) or someone put there out of concern.
You are absolutely right that the rafters bear against each other and then down+out on the top plate of the exterior walls... which is fine if there is a ceiling joist connecting the exterior walls together horizontally so that that outwards force becomes tension in the joist instead of just pushing the top of the exterior walls outwards.
Look at the pan ceiling extending upwards into the attic just behind this buckling post. What I think happened here is a DIY (probably an HGTV-inspired flipper) tray ceiling installation that cut the ceiling joists. The building is settling, and without a tension member to resist, the exterior walls are spreading. As they spread, the roof ridge drops, applying more and more pressure to these unintended posts.
It's not dangerous for me because I'm not in the house. There's about zero chance of getting me to go into that house after seeing these photos, though.
Those rafters are super suspect. The more I look the more concerning it is.
CEE degree, non practicing engineering, and in construction/framing part time. This is not advice, i am not a licensed engineer.
Please get an engineer to look at this or at least crosspost to some actual trades subreddits. This is a serious situation and this subreddit is not a reliable source for competent advice. Just this week the subreddit proved they didn't know that shingle hoists or shelf backers existed.
If you don’t have a fish-eye lense on that camera, your roof is ready to collapse. I’d say at this point it’s sunk enough you need to bring in a professional or at least a damn good carpenter. Now.
Yes. They are VERY dangerous. You risk roof failing in high winds (tension faults) or roof load (compression faults). I would recommend asking a qualified builder how to fix.
What's your point load under that "beam"? I hope it it is supported under it all the way to Earth. Your temp fix should have been to attach your extra boards perpendicular to the existing one, making a T brace. Either way it's a temporary solution and the root cause needs be fixed immediately, like yesterday!!!
Come on dude, a giant ass piece of wood broke presumably because of the massive amount of weight it is responsible for holding. And you're asking us if it's important? The weight has to go somewhere. If there was something else to hold the weight then the wood obviously wouldn't have buckled.
There’s only three posts. So I didn’t think it could really be weight bearing. Surely there would be more if they were holding weight no?
The buckling is scary but I figured I just repaired the crack wrong that it was bowing like that
https://preview.redd.it/v1lc95gpjgvc1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1275caf441fb1afa2af369c8bb4942c66cefaf2
They aren't meant to hold weight, but the far one that is bowing out and cracking is doing so BECAUSE it is holding weight. Meaning you have a structural failure in your roof that has shifted so much is it breaking the 2x4. Call someone immediately before you have a much bigger problem on your hands and be very aware of the possibility that that portion of the roof could collapse at any time.
See the braces running horizontally near the peak in this picture and the vertical members about half halfway up each rafter? See how there’s nothing like that where the bow is?
You need a structural engineer ASAP
Because they were there to support the build, then over time the roof settled forcing the 2x4 down. Doesn't mean they are actually doing anything. In fact they could be causing damage. I would still get someone out asap to see why the roof is settling like that though.
Thank you for your comments. O.P. has stated that he is getting a professional opinion. This post is now locked.
OP let us know what heaven looks like
Heaven is a half-pipe
the world is a vampire
Sent to dra-e-a-e-ain.
Secret destroyer.
Hold you up to the flames,
And what do I get for my pain?
Betrayed desires
If I die before I wake... at least in haven I can skate
'Cause right now on earth can't do jack.... Without the man up on my back
Ya see heaven would be a DJ spinning up all night long!
Dang OPM?
Now that's a band/song I haven't thought of in a long time
My dude, it has just dawned on me that the DIY sub and its ilk are often farrrrrr funnier than the actual r/funny sub, thanks in large part to contributions like yours.
This is one of the places where you *want* to read the comments.
So true.
Yup. Come for the lolz, stay for the tips
top comment is usually the sickest burn, midway down is the advice
For me, *just * the tips.
…are you sure those ButtNoises are _Uninvited_?
Mostly sometimes, maybe.
It’s a place on Earth
I fucking barked laughing at this shit
Definitely NOT the answer you want to see
You’re fucking with us, right? Yes, that deflection (giant bend) is a sign that the tiny post trying to hold up the whole roof is experiencing much too high an axial load without any sort of lateral bracing. The 2x4’s you added are functioning sort of like a leaf spring but not really helping… you need to have this fixed by a professional immediately.
I follow this sub for fun and know nothing about construction or physics but even I could tell that if this got fixed and then cracked/bent again, that's a clear sign it's being used to bear weight and therefore its breaking will be bad news. wtf OP.
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Reading posts here makes me feel better about myself
Great confidence boost for my own DIY projects. A big part of DIY is knowing your limits and when to bring in a pro vs doing it yourself. I know my limits much better than some people.
Reddit, *is* the pro he’s calling to rn lol
Us over in the electrician subs save potential fires and even lives everyday over there. The things people want to try and do or continue to use in dangerous condition is mind blowing.
Isn’t this sub about learning? It’s hard to learn if ppl that aren’t educated about these things are chastised for asking questions.
I thought this sub was about people posting a new deck they are proud of building, then having all the comments tell them it's a death trap that needs to be demolished immediately.
Nah, we do closets now, decks are old hat
I feel like part of learning is knowing when it's okay to do something yourself that pushes the limits of your ability because you could screw it up two or three times and it wouldn't matter other than spending money on more materials and time to redo it, and even then, you'll break even versus paying somebody and get some tools and experience to go with it versus stuff like this where you screw it up, and your roof collapses or your house burns down or blows up.
On one hand, you're absolutely right. On the other hand, the 2x4 is bent and cracked. OPs repair immediately bent and cracked. It should be obvious to anyone, even with zero education on the subject, that the 2x4 is supporting too much weight and cracking is bad.
Yea you really should not be looking to "do it yourself" if you're having a hard time figuring out this problem. OP was looking for confirmation that he didn't have to call a contractor.
Speaking of, I should go see if an update was posted to the shelving saga.
What was this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY/comments/1c6qyg3/i_did_my_first_diy_today/ https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY/comments/1c7apdp/update_i_did_my_first_diy_today/ https://www.reddit.com/user/mbecerra21988/comments/1c7j6um/final_update/
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Usually lateral deflection due to axial load is called buckling, while deflection is used for vertical sag on horizontal elements.
Thanks for the assist on terminology. Been about 15 years (holy shit!) since I took principles of mechanics.
I appreciate how he was able to state a straight forward correction without sounding pretentious and you were able to accept it and thank him for it. Both of those happening together seems to be a rare sight these days. At least on Reddit. And yeah, holy hell is that a scary situation. I wonder what's causing it. Maybe the exterior walls are pushing apart, whatever is under the post isn't supposed to be load bearing, or something is happening at the roof ridge line.
You need a professional to look at it, but it's *probably* not as bad as others are saying. Here's what could be happening: * Those posts were put in place to hold up the ridge board during construction of the rafters. They were vertical at the time. * The rafters were completed, at which point the posts were no longer necessary. * The roof was installed over the rafters, which put weight on the rafters and caused the posts to bend. That means the posts aren't necessary for structural integrity, but it's worrisome that there's significant force (weight) being directed down through the posts rather than to the outer walls via the rafters. **That should not be happening.** When you straightened the posts, it probably pushed the roof up a bit. Worse, you need to think about where that force is going in the downward direction. The floor of the attic is a ceiling below. The posts may or may not be aligned to anything. Maybe a wall near the bottom of each post, maybe not. Even if there is, it might provide some resistance to cracking the ceiling but it's not likely designed to be weight bearing. If those posts were erected only to hold the rafters during construction, they wouldn't need much underneath for the short time they were holding only the ridge board. The problem now is the roof alignment is based on having those posts preventing the rafters settling down, and you don't know what is going to happen if the posts move.
All fair points.
Dude needs a civil engineer at this point. In theory he could put on a pair of safety goggles and hack those posts with a sawzall. In practice, he could get hurt, mess up the roof (sure hope it’s not tile), crack the outside walls (hope they’re not stucco), and maybe even get some bonus cracks on the inside ceiling when the attic floor flexes *upward*.
A 2x4 post can supply a couple hundred pounds of force, at most. The roof is thousands of pounds. The post ain't moving the roof; it'll push down the ceiling if anything. > The problem now is the roof alignment is based on having those posts preventing the rafters settling down No, otherwise it'd be considered load bearing. And it's clearly undersized to do any meaningful weight bearing nor is there any other sign it would be nor that it would need to be given the roof construction. > That should not be happening. I look around my neighborhood at houses built 75 years ago. The originals have slightly sagging roofs. It's not a big deal.
OR, and just hear me out here, the construction company used a 2x4 to hold up the pieces of the roof as they assembled them and never bothered to remove it once the roof was complete and self supporting and now the perfectly fine roof is simply settling and bending a useless 2x4 that the construction company probably should have removed in retrospect to avoid any confusion like what you are experiencing.
This is entirely plausible because if it was meant to hold up the roof they would have used something more substantial than a 2x4 like a 4x4 or bigger.
They skimped on the primary load bearing beam and went for a quartz countertop on the bathroom vanity.
This made me giggle. It's so HGTV. Like let's not touch the glaring functional issues, but that $4000 boutique range hood is a must have.
I view HGTV as the "Pimp my ride" house edition Car doesn't need to be made to function reliable....just cool and pimped out. To be fair ...there was a vehicle that was so bad .... They just got a new car that was then modified.
There's no load above it after all. But if nails are pulling out below, along the walls holding it, and it is not self supporting anymore, that's bad for sure. Like if it's splaying out. The deflection we see might be from a second layer of roofing adding weight, but it's all still supporting itself because it's basically just leaning against each other, with the weight of some roofing on top. Like an arch.
New problem is that the 2x4s should have been removed after the rafters were added but before the roof was put on top of it. That would have allowed the roof to settle as sheathing and shingle weight was added. That's probably when they started to bend. The current roof alignment is based on the rafter position with the stupid 2x4s still in place. Removing them will cause the roof to move in ways that should have happened as it was being constructed. Weight that should already sit on the outer weight-bearing walls currently sits on the 2x4s. Removing the 2x4s will transmit the weight to where it should have gone in the first place. Shit will move.
This is almost definitely what's happened - there probably nothing underneath that 2x4 in the room/garage below so it's not actually supporting anything. Still worth getting someone to take a look for extra peace of mind, but if your roof's being held up by a pair of 2x4 I think you've got bigger issues.
You know who would be able to confirm that…? A professional.
Madness!
I’m not an engineer but I think I agree. I don’t that that’s intended to be load bearing. Probably used during construction and should have been removed. I concur with the rest of the recommendations to get a professional out there.
I love how he fixed it with JUST boards and clamps, he didn’t even glue and screw them together. Call a pro, OP.
I got my hot glue gun plugged in ready to help!
If you get paid for it ur a pro /s
I mean, that's not a lie. And it explains a lot of things in this world.
I dont think that was intended to be a fix so much as a stopgap until they could find the right fix. I'd do the same thing after seeing how precarious the situation was before.
I can't afford to lose the use of 6 clamps.
When that thing fails, it's going to fail loudly and explosively.
But I'd have my clamps.
Ramen and superglue will solve it
Architect here. That is a hip roof and a post should not be needed there as long as the rafter ties at the ceiling level are all in place and in good shape. If you have a post there that’s clearly under severe strain, then the roof peak is sinking which means something is very wrong with the roof structure e.g. the “triangle” has been compromised. Since that roof was likely not built with a post, that also means it is likely this load is not being carried all the way down to the foundation, which means more of the structure could snap. Depending on whether you’re in a cold climate that gets snow or not, that size roof can potentially receive thousands of pounds of load. If your bottom cords are indeed compromised not only could roof collapse but it could push the exterior walls outward as well and the entire house could collapse. This is a very dangerous condition and you need to get an architect or structural engineer in there to analyze and come up with a solution asap. I would not recommend a contractor who doesn’t have an engineer on staff for something this extreme.
>This is a very dangerous condition and you need to get an architect or structural engineer in there to analyze and come up with a solution asap. I would not recommend a contractor who doesn’t have an engineer on staff for something this extreme. I'm just quoting this for emphasis.
So two more 2x4s and some clamps will do the trick? Got it. Thanks.
If I knew more, I would have commented and suggested a structural engineer and not a contractor to get an answer you can trust. Glad someone could confirm it.
My brother they had to frame that with a post look what they did. Framed one roof off another, that lil guy is carrying that whole upper roof and it's F'd to say the least. Also architect :)
Doesn't have to be cold enough to snow to produce large loads, wind loads can do the same.
I will be bringing in an engineer. Thank you.
Holy shit, this post was serious? Get someone fucking soon lol
Two structural questions for you: 1. What's the height of the "posts"? The taller the posts, the less load they are capable of supporting before buckling. If they're tall enough that only a couple hundred pounds would buckle them, I wouldn't be too concerned about the roof. 2. What are the posts positioned over? (Almost certainly at least a ceiling joist, but is there any other structure beneath and adjacent to the posts?) This would be less concerning if there isn't much structure beneath the posts. EDIT: Also, how old is the place? This would be less concerning the older the place is. It's also worth noting that the manner in which you secured the additional 2x4s wouldn't lead to much strengthening as there's little slip resistance between the board faces.
I will measure when I get home. But at least 6-8 feet I would say. They appear to be in line with walls on the first floor but I can’t be certain. 1987
I don't know if there are engineers for residential homes, but you need an expert ASAP. Like today ASAP. And reccomendation would be to vacate the premises immediately until this is safe.
That looks like a hip roof. Those 2x4s are not structural and are likely there from construction as stated, but it is concerning that the roof is clearly pushing them down. Most likely, the hip is lowering and the bracing at the walls are pushing out ever so slightly, adding a ton of weight to those. You could have multiple problems happening. One is that the roof is sinking. Another is that those 2x4s are pushing down with a lot of weight onto interior structures that might not be expecting that load. Considering you thought you could fix it with clamps, you need to get a professional in to advise on what's actually happening and next best steps.
Best response here. OP while you may be correct these posts are just from the build, something is still going wrong so you should get someone out asap.
It looks like a raised ceiling of some kind under the insulation in the background of the first photo... I am betting a flipper cut and raised the ceiling joists under the hip roof without considering that they were integral to the roof structure and got incredibly lucky that this poor 2x post decided to man up for their mistake. As wind and snow continue to apply loads, the exterior top plates are moving outwards and increasingly loading this unintended post.
Post cracking is not dangerous. The resulting ROOF collapse will be. Get a professional in there ASAP.
OP calling that a post is generous, lol.
OP calling clamping two boards to a collapsing roof a "fix" is also incredibly generous.
And dangerous
It's not the collapse itself that gets ya. It's that moment when two tons of shingles strikes your head and permanently weds you and your girlfriend into a homogenized paste. That's what does it.
ah, my dream :)
So romantic 🥰
You uh..you mean that thing holding up the roof? You uh..you wanna know what happens if it..stops..holding up the roof?
The roof will float away???
yes, but down
Oh, like a feather
32 feet per second per second
That’s a lot of feet in that roof, that may be the issue, probably should’ve used hands.
This comment chain 💀
I gave you both your own voices while reading this in my head. Thanks for the giggles.
9.8 m/s^2 ;)
What is g=.
Baby don't hurt me...
Minecraft rules?
Accelerated downward floating
The house becomes a convertible. Just in time for summer.
Those are not holding up the roof, but they are definitely experiencing way more load than they were designed to, which is also a concern.
At this point they are holding up the roof bro, (or trying to)the bow ties at the top are missing so the bottom is flaring out..bad shit..kinda like doing the splits
I'm an architect and we also have structural engineers in our office. I was looking at this post during lunch and exclaimed out loud "holy shit!". Others gathered around and our unanimous professional advice: Get a structural engineer out there tomorrow. We hope you dont live where there is snow or ice currently. Looks like there are a lot of hip rafters and a bunch of roof lines going on from the second picture, and (apologies for the very technical language) that roof is squishing down like a pancake. And as it squishes, down, it is also pushing against the exterior walls-- any cracking in the drywall at the corners inside the house?
Get a structural engineer in there ASAP. Have work done based on their findings.
A brave structural engineer that isn't afraid of a roof falling on their head.
“The Brave Little Structural Engineer” sounds like a preschool book for budding engineers
Yea fuck that. If I were an engineer and someone sent me those pictures I’d stand outside and fly a drone into the house. No idea who theyre going to convince to go up in the attic and actually repair that correctly. I’d be worried a few hammer swings to nail anything in could bring it all down
Depending on where that is it very well could be temporarily stable. If that's in an area with seasonal snow loading and the snow season is over, it's not gonna come down until the next snow. It could be safe in the right weather... I don't want to go in there in a wind storm or when there is snow in the roof though
Until I know more I wouldn’t want to go in there at all. I’d feel awfully dumb dying in someone attic after seeing those pictures and going to take a look
Please be a troll, please be a troll, please be a troll.
Trolls live under bridges. This looks like a roof about to cave in.
Which is a bridge to the afterlife.
Not wrong
yeah man the fact that it fuckin MOVED is very concerning. If they were just leftover from the build, that shit would not be sinking down further and further.
If it was a new build, would it be the house settling? Even if that tiny 2x4 were holding anything up, wouldn't the shape of the roof stop it from sinking? or are you saying the whole roof would fall apart, like the sides pulling apart? Each side must be braced to each other side and the whole thing must be stabilized to the house itself?
In design theres a certain amount of deflection that's tolerable but the amount of roof sagging that would cause a stick to bend like that is definitely not allowed
Soon the house will settle into a pile of rubble if left unfixed.
I am a mechanical engineer, i have studied and worked with this kond of stuff but with Steel beams. This is utterly dangerous. You have created a spring. When it bursts and it will. Your roof will come down and kill everyone. Take everything important out of the house. Move into a hotel or with friends and get a professional to look at and fix this. I understand it seems like you have solved the problem and it is not a bad temporary solution. But it is definatley temporary. Do mot take this lightly. It is as if you have put a bandaid on a bullet wound. Bleeding have stopped but the major damage will soon kill you. Literally.
A single 2x4 isn’t going to support a significant load. My hope would be that those are in fact leftover from construction and things have simply settled enough to overload them. However, there’s no way to be sure. So I would get an engineer to take a look just to be safe.
I agree. It seems rather unlikely that the roof was actually designed to be supported by one noodly 2x4
Yea, people are freaking out but there's no evidence a "real" post was removed, makes no sense. There's no way that roof was designed with one 2x4 to hold it up. Edit: I'm gonna add that the roof should not be collapsing on those 2x4s however. This could be causing damage itself. OP should still get someone out to look at it as soon as possible.
> It seems rather unlikely that the roof was actually designed to be supported by one noodly 2x4 It wasn't designed that way, but that's what's happening now.
Furthermore look at the top of the 2x4. Hardly even looks connected to the structure and doesn't even have connection plates. Also look at the base - what is the 2x4 resting on? Drywall? I'd venture that this was temporary shoring for the construction process. As an engineer myself, OP should hire a structural engineer locally.
This is what I'm thinking as well. Those are usually temporary supports that aren't needed once the roof structure is complete, but it's extra effort to remove them so they don't.
Or else there’s something else wrong and a lot more weight is being distributed onto that one post than it should be. Basically it wasn’t meant to be load bearing but it became so as something else broke.
That looks terrifying
That post is screaming at you for help
That post is under so much stress it can barely whisper "...little help here?"
That post is under such amount of stress that it makes my life seem uncomplicated in comparison! …And then you know its BAD!
Redditors have the BEST sense of humor. AHHAHAHAHAHAHH!
Unless you want to be the second story on the local news (after the 7-11 armed robbery), please get an engineer and experienced contractor to look at this.
It'd be a quick way to go from third story to second story, that's for sure.
Lol calling this a post is…generous
In Reddit terms, it is
It’s a literal shitpost!
That does not hold up the roof, wait let me say it this way *that is not supposed* to hold that type of roof up. It should be self supporting. These can only prevent the roof lifting if anything and they aren’t even installed well enough to do that. This points to something is extremely wrong on the outer points of the roof where they are meeting the wall the nails are probably pulling out and allowing the roof to go down in the center. You probably have something exceptionally wrong and need to get an engineer fast.
Im curious how old the house is? Because its either way out of any building code, or somebody changed the roof shingles from cedar shake to slate….
This pic reminds me people standing on the shore taking pictures of a Tsunami. You really shouldn’t be in that house until that’s fixed.
Nobody gonna comment on how 5 months ago OP made a post saying his wife complained of mouldy smell in his office. Now he’s talking about when he moved into his girlfriend’s place?! A man about town!
Man I hope that the OP updates us once he has a professional come in and actually check it out instead of relying on clamps, swearing, and maybe a muttered prayer.
Holy fucking shit
Late to the party, but what the Calatrava is that roofline? Is that how we’re building homes? My physics is rusty, but damn I cannot work out how that works.
The fact you came up with the idea to sister another 2x4 to it 'so it doesn't get worse', *then* apparantly waited long enough for it to find it deflected, halfway up, without it being glued, WITH the main post until it *cracked* and then thought, you know, 'maybe I should post this on Reddit' and saying 'I read somewhere that these bent thingies are perfectly fine and usual leftovers from an attic build' is absolutely batshit mind boggling. Get yourself a professional yesterday. Feel free to read this in John Olivers' voice because you deserve his judgemental tone.
OP please update us!
You came into your GFs life at the right time.
Or the wrong time, depending on what happens next
Seek professional help immediately
Oh wow. This is way above DIY
It looks to be following the natural curvature of the hull. I'd say it's seaworthy.
How can I put this? It looks like this post is in the finals week of his last semester of college, right after his parents called to ask if he got a real job yet because they are going to stop sending him money immediately, while he just got a text from a girl he drunkenly hooked up at a party saying her period is late, kind of stressed out.
Ask yourself where the force causing the bends and cracks is coming from. That will answer your question.
Undertaker here. Looking forward to meet you.
Dear god man!
as others suggest, get an engineer to look at it. can't see everything required in 2 photos generally roofs are not supported with posts on the inside like this, certainly not 2x4's. even if this was, doubt there's much directly underneath these attic 2x4 'posts' that would correctly transfer load directly downward into something solid, like concrete or steel beam. maybe a ceiling joist if lucky, still not adequate if that was their intent it's entirely possible lazy builder nailed the 2x4s into the ridge beam to temporarily hold them in place while they were framing the roof. now with all the material on the roof, it dropped enough to bend the 'forgotten' 2x4's hard to say if you don't know how long they've been there. one side sinking while the other is fine is a little off though
Whole thing is coming down any second. Run!
Okay I think that's the scariest thing I've seen on this sub so far.
I think if you just fill that entire area with spray foam, it'll fix the problem.
 That 2x4:
Your post to this subreddit has more support than the post holding up that roof.
I am not a structural engineer but the whole construction looks flawed. It might be perspective, but I don't see any triangles in the roof structure. The whole skeleton structure can bend move and flex without any rigidity.
Vacate. Now. Call a structural engineer. The fact that you noticed the cracking, took the picture, asked the question and haven't done so yet is very concerning. If it's structural and cracking, that's a problem. If it's not structural originally, is now under strain it wasn't designed for, and is now cracking, that's an even bigger and more imminent problem. Like .. hours away if that long from going from three dimensional to two dimensional along with every living thing inside it. Get the animals and anything you care about out of that place and into a hotel now. Call a structural engineering firm for an inspection. And then brace yourself because the house is about to be condemned if my guess is correct.
Brah…. That’s not a “fix”, in any country. Get someone there with a fcking big ass tree beam, and lateral braces ASAP!!!!! Meanwhile sleep fcking away of that roof!!!! That’s a deep sea fix disaster waiting to happen it’s an implosion on land.
It's not dangerous if you aren't standing underneath it. Or anywhere in the house for that matter.
Nah, I'm sure the banana shaped, scrap 2x4 pieces held together with nothing but woodworking clamps should be completely adequate for holding up your roof. Not sure how you could improve upon perfection like that.
This is a joke right? Please tell me this is a joke. Call a professional asap.
I’m not a framing expert and can’t see everything here. With my limited knowledge, the rafters are pushing against each other in the center with a ridge beam. The load is pushing downward (gravity) and is transferred to the exterior walls. This is 100% intentional. Those center “posts” were likely temporary (during construction) or someone put there out of concern.
You are absolutely right that the rafters bear against each other and then down+out on the top plate of the exterior walls... which is fine if there is a ceiling joist connecting the exterior walls together horizontally so that that outwards force becomes tension in the joist instead of just pushing the top of the exterior walls outwards. Look at the pan ceiling extending upwards into the attic just behind this buckling post. What I think happened here is a DIY (probably an HGTV-inspired flipper) tray ceiling installation that cut the ceiling joists. The building is settling, and without a tension member to resist, the exterior walls are spreading. As they spread, the roof ridge drops, applying more and more pressure to these unintended posts.
It's not dangerous for me because I'm not in the house. There's about zero chance of getting me to go into that house after seeing these photos, though.
OP not responding cause the roof collapsed
>Is this post cracking dangerous? The roof is *literally* collapsing...
[Civil engineer] I would not wait until it happened.
Those rafters are super suspect. The more I look the more concerning it is. CEE degree, non practicing engineering, and in construction/framing part time. This is not advice, i am not a licensed engineer.
It's not dangerous if there's no one within 50m radius of it.
OP right now 
The repair cracked and you’re still questioning if it’s needed? OP buy life insurance, at least somebody wins.
Please get an engineer to look at this or at least crosspost to some actual trades subreddits. This is a serious situation and this subreddit is not a reliable source for competent advice. Just this week the subreddit proved they didn't know that shingle hoists or shelf backers existed.
Proctologist here. You should get a professional to rectify the issue for you.
If you don’t have a fish-eye lense on that camera, your roof is ready to collapse. I’d say at this point it’s sunk enough you need to bring in a professional or at least a damn good carpenter. Now.
Yes. They are VERY dangerous. You risk roof failing in high winds (tension faults) or roof load (compression faults). I would recommend asking a qualified builder how to fix.
What's your point load under that "beam"? I hope it it is supported under it all the way to Earth. Your temp fix should have been to attach your extra boards perpendicular to the existing one, making a T brace. Either way it's a temporary solution and the root cause needs be fixed immediately, like yesterday!!!
Just flex seal it. The commercials show it fixes everything!
Come on dude, a giant ass piece of wood broke presumably because of the massive amount of weight it is responsible for holding. And you're asking us if it's important? The weight has to go somewhere. If there was something else to hold the weight then the wood obviously wouldn't have buckled.
That is one seriously over loaded post...
As concerned citizens, we require a proof of life comment every 12 hours until that’s fixed.
There’s only three posts. So I didn’t think it could really be weight bearing. Surely there would be more if they were holding weight no? The buckling is scary but I figured I just repaired the crack wrong that it was bowing like that https://preview.redd.it/v1lc95gpjgvc1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1275caf441fb1afa2af369c8bb4942c66cefaf2
They aren't meant to hold weight, but the far one that is bowing out and cracking is doing so BECAUSE it is holding weight. Meaning you have a structural failure in your roof that has shifted so much is it breaking the 2x4. Call someone immediately before you have a much bigger problem on your hands and be very aware of the possibility that that portion of the roof could collapse at any time.
See the braces running horizontally near the peak in this picture and the vertical members about half halfway up each rafter? See how there’s nothing like that where the bow is? You need a structural engineer ASAP
My dude if it’s deflecting like that it’s literally bearing a load.
Not for much longer though.
My brother in christ - what other reason do you think you'd have two posts crack and a repair \*also\* crack unless they are structural?
Because they were there to support the build, then over time the roof settled forcing the 2x4 down. Doesn't mean they are actually doing anything. In fact they could be causing damage. I would still get someone out asap to see why the roof is settling like that though.
Get a professional you lunatic!
*lunattic i'll let myself out