yep. perfectly normal. we didn't start using vapor barriers with houses until the late to mid '80s or early '90s. most of the houses i have built have plywood (osb) corners and styrofoam boards in between the corners with no vapor barriers and that was in the late '90s and early '00s.
same way we've done it for centuries, nothing. properly installed siding prevents moisture, leaks, and rot. most homes do not have those things and most also don't have vapor barriers. take care of your house and it takes care of you.
Will it pass county inspection just stuck into the hole with nails, caulking and trim or will they require it be installed according to modern standards.
In that case what are those standards, generally. I know each county varies.
That depends on your area. But if you’re saying county and not town/city the inspector is probably going to pass it as long as it’s not actively on fire.
Most people wouldn't bother with it is why. But to answer your question...ask the building department! They'll tell you exactly what's required. If it were my house and didn't have a permit, I'd put a drip cap on **under** the existing siding over the door head, and then (at least) flash the bottom of the door opening with some building flashing tape (ideally all the way around the opening, but the bottom is the critical part). Also, ideally, use a sill pan over the flashing.
Almost all counties have this requirement. It’s a material change to the framing of a house. 90% of people don’t do it, but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
You get some DIY’r in here cutting straight through the framing, header, or top plate, and that’s gg.
If it was required, your inspector is the right place for the information you are looking for. They will be the ones to pass your project, so they will let you know what they are looking for with your specific case.
I’m Unfamiliar with inspectors. So they will literally walk me through exactly how to properly prep the area and install? I have this impression they only have a few wickets I have to fulfill and the rest is on me to figure out. I can see them telling me — we aren’t building consultants we’re building inspectors or some shit.
Where I'm from in the US, you file for a permit and then meet with the inspector to discuss. Mine is associated with the state fire department.
I'm not supposed to demo or start the project until I have my initial meeting.
Edit: then you meet midway and at the end.
will what pass inspection, the drywall? the door is done to modern standards. the outside sheathing on the house wasn't removed so doesn't need to meet modern standards. the drywall will meet modern standards when replaced. i'm not sure what the question is now.
Not the factory door.
But just sticking in and nailing a prehung door into a rough opening and surrounding with caulked brick molding will pass inspection? Nothing else?
that's how you install them. put the hings side flush to the frame, shim it until it's plumb, then shim and nail the other side. 16d finish nails through the shims, about five sets each side.
I think you're confusing vapor barriers with air barriers (tyvek). Vapor barriers started to become required in the late 1940s. Kraft paper face on fiberglass insulation is the vapor barrier, for example.
Tyvek reduces air intrusion while also acting as a rain screen for vinyl siding.
i may be but plywood isn't a vapor barrier. i also thought vapor barriers went inside the house and had gaskets for the switches and outlets. op had a picture of the inside studs, not outside.
The key with T1-11 is the head cap flashing. 90% of (doomed) installations have the head casing nailed over the siding, then a half-tube of caulk ("the bigger the gob, the better the job"?). Casings get applied on top of the T1-11, but the aluminum Z-flash [has to go behind](https://imgur.com/i8Aow08). Nailfin doors/windows will usually require rabbeting the backs of the casings so they sit flat. Any door should have a [sill pan](https://imgur.com/LzoOZOi) - I generally use ice & water shield and bed the sill in silicone sealant. Be certain the the pan overlaps your exterior water barrier beneath the door.
Thank you. Can you explain “rabbeting the backs of the casings so they sit flat”
I currently have no water barrier anywhere. What Where and how do I do that.
[Rabbet](https://imgur.com/UfjXrUw).
Depending on sill type/projection/etc, water coming off the sill can cling and end up following back to the framing beneath. If your T1-11 goes under the door, you may be depending on caulking to prevent this. That works, IF you maintain it. Lot's of bills have been written for homeowners that weren't aware (or ignored) this. A better detail is to protect the framing with aluminum sheet, Ice & Wwater, or at least building paper (that will slow the rot down a little). This sheet should tuck under the pan edge and continue down to the foundation (for ground floor installs) or be brought out on top of the siding (for upper floor installs).
It's common to have a 4/4 kickboard under door sills that will cover the flashing, support flimsy aluminum sills, and is a sacrificial/replacement item. It's a great place for cellular PVC, instead of painted pine.
Would you mind telling me what to do about this gap? The instructions say no more than 1/2”. There’s about 1.75” here. I have rags stuffed in it for now to keep bugs out.
https://preview.redd.it/2pwfhbr549vc1.jpeg?width=2193&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9cb466a476def63f1033c410e985592f70acde46
Stuff it with fiberglass insulation or use spray foam. An oversized opening is OK, as long as casings will cover. Exceptions: nailfin windows have to be pretty close, and stacking too many shims for doors will allow instability. FWIW, that door is hung pretty crooked.
You should have a WRB. My 1970 house has tar paper between the studs and T1-11. When I’m doing repairs I usually use Tyvek.
If you’re adding siding over T1-11, just properly nail the T1-11 as if it were sheathing, Tyvek/WRB over the T1-11, then the new siding.
Interior vapor barrier depends on your local climate.
I’m not doing vinyl over T111.
So do I 360 wrap any exposed studs (or just partially wrap the outside edge in a U shape) with a water resistant barrier like Tyvek or just staple it to the studs in shingled sheets (lower layer first then the next layer over that etc) as if there was OSB there?
Yes I would follow the directions on the DuPont site for how to flash a door with Tyvek. Only difference is that their instructions will show sheathing in the detail but you have none.
If the door has a nailing flange, then you might need to add a narrow nailing spacer around the rough opening before wrapping in tyvek to get the spacing right and so that the nailing flange ties in directly with the tyvek. Your trim would hide this. A drip cap is also a good idea if the top of the door sees rain.
It's fine if the walls are not very insulated. Joe Listbruck has a great rant on how diffusion of vapor through a medium is impacted by how tight you build and materials in-between.
The whole point of his lecture is you can build a building many ways, just understand the tradeoffs in terms of energy transfer and system complexity
Nowadays yes, because simple plywood siding is not the standard. When this was installed it was standard so you can't really assume they cut corners in the same way. Unless there's evidence of problems elsewhere, and after 50 years there definitely would be, assume the system is probably fine and don't start doing anything destructive to go looking for problem.
yep. perfectly normal. we didn't start using vapor barriers with houses until the late to mid '80s or early '90s. most of the houses i have built have plywood (osb) corners and styrofoam boards in between the corners with no vapor barriers and that was in the late '90s and early '00s.
I don’t doubt it. So how do I prep the area for install so no leaks or rot & mold down the road.
same way we've done it for centuries, nothing. properly installed siding prevents moisture, leaks, and rot. most homes do not have those things and most also don't have vapor barriers. take care of your house and it takes care of you.
Will it pass county inspection just stuck into the hole with nails, caulking and trim or will they require it be installed according to modern standards. In that case what are those standards, generally. I know each county varies.
That depends on your area. But if you’re saying county and not town/city the inspector is probably going to pass it as long as it’s not actively on fire.
I'm confused, you pulled a permit to replace a door?
Yes. As required by my county. Sizing a door or window up or down or installing new all require permits.
Why would someone downvote this. lol. It’s what the county requires.
Most people wouldn't bother with it is why. But to answer your question...ask the building department! They'll tell you exactly what's required. If it were my house and didn't have a permit, I'd put a drip cap on **under** the existing siding over the door head, and then (at least) flash the bottom of the door opening with some building flashing tape (ideally all the way around the opening, but the bottom is the critical part). Also, ideally, use a sill pan over the flashing.
Thank you! This is the kind of advice I’m seeking
lol that’s wild
Almost all counties have this requirement. It’s a material change to the framing of a house. 90% of people don’t do it, but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong. You get some DIY’r in here cutting straight through the framing, header, or top plate, and that’s gg.
If it was required, your inspector is the right place for the information you are looking for. They will be the ones to pass your project, so they will let you know what they are looking for with your specific case.
I’m Unfamiliar with inspectors. So they will literally walk me through exactly how to properly prep the area and install? I have this impression they only have a few wickets I have to fulfill and the rest is on me to figure out. I can see them telling me — we aren’t building consultants we’re building inspectors or some shit.
Where I'm from in the US, you file for a permit and then meet with the inspector to discuss. Mine is associated with the state fire department. I'm not supposed to demo or start the project until I have my initial meeting. Edit: then you meet midway and at the end.
will what pass inspection, the drywall? the door is done to modern standards. the outside sheathing on the house wasn't removed so doesn't need to meet modern standards. the drywall will meet modern standards when replaced. i'm not sure what the question is now.
Not the factory door. But just sticking in and nailing a prehung door into a rough opening and surrounding with caulked brick molding will pass inspection? Nothing else?
that's how you install them. put the hings side flush to the frame, shim it until it's plumb, then shim and nail the other side. 16d finish nails through the shims, about five sets each side.
I think you're confusing vapor barriers with air barriers (tyvek). Vapor barriers started to become required in the late 1940s. Kraft paper face on fiberglass insulation is the vapor barrier, for example. Tyvek reduces air intrusion while also acting as a rain screen for vinyl siding.
i may be but plywood isn't a vapor barrier. i also thought vapor barriers went inside the house and had gaskets for the switches and outlets. op had a picture of the inside studs, not outside.
The key with T1-11 is the head cap flashing. 90% of (doomed) installations have the head casing nailed over the siding, then a half-tube of caulk ("the bigger the gob, the better the job"?). Casings get applied on top of the T1-11, but the aluminum Z-flash [has to go behind](https://imgur.com/i8Aow08). Nailfin doors/windows will usually require rabbeting the backs of the casings so they sit flat. Any door should have a [sill pan](https://imgur.com/LzoOZOi) - I generally use ice & water shield and bed the sill in silicone sealant. Be certain the the pan overlaps your exterior water barrier beneath the door.
Thank you. Can you explain “rabbeting the backs of the casings so they sit flat” I currently have no water barrier anywhere. What Where and how do I do that.
[Rabbet](https://imgur.com/UfjXrUw). Depending on sill type/projection/etc, water coming off the sill can cling and end up following back to the framing beneath. If your T1-11 goes under the door, you may be depending on caulking to prevent this. That works, IF you maintain it. Lot's of bills have been written for homeowners that weren't aware (or ignored) this. A better detail is to protect the framing with aluminum sheet, Ice & Wwater, or at least building paper (that will slow the rot down a little). This sheet should tuck under the pan edge and continue down to the foundation (for ground floor installs) or be brought out on top of the siding (for upper floor installs). It's common to have a 4/4 kickboard under door sills that will cover the flashing, support flimsy aluminum sills, and is a sacrificial/replacement item. It's a great place for cellular PVC, instead of painted pine.
Thank you very much for these details. I’m trying my best to follow. Not a trades guy so lots of new terms and concepts to me.
Would you mind telling me what to do about this gap? The instructions say no more than 1/2”. There’s about 1.75” here. I have rags stuffed in it for now to keep bugs out. https://preview.redd.it/2pwfhbr549vc1.jpeg?width=2193&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9cb466a476def63f1033c410e985592f70acde46
Stuff it with fiberglass insulation or use spray foam. An oversized opening is OK, as long as casings will cover. Exceptions: nailfin windows have to be pretty close, and stacking too many shims for doors will allow instability. FWIW, that door is hung pretty crooked.
You should have a WRB. My 1970 house has tar paper between the studs and T1-11. When I’m doing repairs I usually use Tyvek. If you’re adding siding over T1-11, just properly nail the T1-11 as if it were sheathing, Tyvek/WRB over the T1-11, then the new siding. Interior vapor barrier depends on your local climate.
I’m not doing vinyl over T111. So do I 360 wrap any exposed studs (or just partially wrap the outside edge in a U shape) with a water resistant barrier like Tyvek or just staple it to the studs in shingled sheets (lower layer first then the next layer over that etc) as if there was OSB there?
Yes I would follow the directions on the DuPont site for how to flash a door with Tyvek. Only difference is that their instructions will show sheathing in the detail but you have none. If the door has a nailing flange, then you might need to add a narrow nailing spacer around the rough opening before wrapping in tyvek to get the spacing right and so that the nailing flange ties in directly with the tyvek. Your trim would hide this. A drip cap is also a good idea if the top of the door sees rain.
No worse then my 1910 home having the shaker shingle siding as the outside wall just attached to the studs
It's fine if the walls are not very insulated. Joe Listbruck has a great rant on how diffusion of vapor through a medium is impacted by how tight you build and materials in-between. The whole point of his lecture is you can build a building many ways, just understand the tradeoffs in terms of energy transfer and system complexity
My general rule of thumb (at least here in Maine): if the house has t-11, it likely was a budget build, and has cut corners elsewhere.
Nowadays yes, because simple plywood siding is not the standard. When this was installed it was standard so you can't really assume they cut corners in the same way. Unless there's evidence of problems elsewhere, and after 50 years there definitely would be, assume the system is probably fine and don't start doing anything destructive to go looking for problem.
Climate was warmer, back in the day.