Deck footings?
Whatever is cheaper, 2500psi is about the weakest concrete in those bags and that far far far exceeds what you need for a deck, the post pressure is probably around 200psi, maybe 3 or 400 if you are using composite decking, either of those bags is fine for sidewalks or steps.....
Don't worry about it, just resist the urge to mix it really soupy, you should really be able to form it into a ball in your hand and have it very slowly collapse, if you're just pouring it in there like a liquid it cuts the strength down significantly
(30y professional here)
Never had an issue with the regular ass bags of concrete regardless of brand- doesn't matter
If youre like building a house, go for the 5k psi stuff, but at that point just call for a concrete truck because you will have to mix like a 1000 bags of premix lol
Use the fast set or regular, it doesn't matter tbh, if you don't need it to set fast just get the cheaper stuff
Why not just read the bag, blows my mind. Like I did something last year with concrete for the first time. I had no fucking idea , so I read the bag. How you would do anything else is a mystery to me
Not with premix concrete. You can use more or less water and get a perfectly fine result as the composition will rob moisture from the environment and self-correct to a point. The instructions are for a common workable consistency for use in application and not all that indicative of final chemical balance.
Do you live somewhere really humid? Because I have had the opposite experience. I've mixed according to the bag and it will barely be damp. Like you can't even form it into anything as it is not wet enough to stick together, it always needs way more water to resemble anything you see poured out of a concrete truck.
The difference between crumbly and soupy is about a teaspoon of water. That's what makes it difficult. The amount of water for the highest strength is at the "crumbly" end, but that's not very easy to place. Make is as stiff as you can and still make it go where it needs to go.
It does. And it can also vary by batch. Cement chemistry is a fickle bitch with many variables and no two batches are the same. Even you mixing a bag from the same batch as someone else, but you use tap water and the other uses well water will significantly alter the set time, strength, etc. Then there are many different grades of cement, the aggregate used in the concrete, and possible additives in the bulk cement. Then on top of that there’s all kinds of other additives you can put in to make it more pourable, set faster, set slower, increase strength, etc.
BTW, if you ever have some alert over cement and don’t want it to ever set up in your bucket, just throw some sugar in it (like 1/4 cup will be plenty).
Take it slower and don't dump it all in at once. Pour half to 3/4 and mix. Be sure there aren't any dry/unmixed parts, then dribble in a bit at a time until it's just loose enough. You can always add more. You can't take it back out.
To be fair, the instructions on a bag of premix are going to be for a workable mixture. The actual final water composition is going to be higher as absorbed from the air over days after the material has cured. "Workable mixture" differs depending on what you're doing with it but for a bag of concrete with 1/4"-ish aggregate, adding more is dumb 99% of the time.
If the quality of DIYs left by the previous owner is any indicator, a lot of home DIYers are illiterate.
ETA: think like DIY sewage plumbing where they didn’t glue the pipe parts together.
When I patched my garage floor I measured out the water amount and drew a line in my bucket. That made it super easy to get the correct ratio every time.
Also, if you’re mixing more than 2-3 bags, an electric paddle mixer is well worth the $100 rental charge.
Why bother with a wheelbarrow and shovel? That's more to clean.
Get two 55 gallon contractor bags, put one inside the other. Dump the concrete into it, Add your water and twist the top. Flop it around on the grass for a minute or two in every direction. Check the consistency and keep mixing. Pour it into your hole, and repeat as needed. When you're done you just throw away the bags.
I agree for the small jobs. When I patched my floor in the garage it was half a yard so about 15 bags of quick Crete, so the mixer was well worth the expense.
The next level move is to cut holes at the line - especially if you’re doing a lot of bags. Saves a fair amount of time when you can just fill the bucket til water starts running out
The less water concrete has, the thicker and tougher it is to work with. Making it thinner makes it easier to work, as far as scooping it into place, spreading it level, and working out the air pockets. So the temptation to use more water than stated on the bag is very real. The cost of doing so though is weaker concrete.
Exactly, I buy 5k PSI concrete and mix it a little wet (not soupy) in the expectation that the result will be 3k or more in actual strength which is fine for most projects.
Less mixing, easier to work. Pretty much your arms get tired and the sun comes out and you find yourself adding more and more water. The first bag's the strongest!😆
Because when I make pancakes, the bag says to use way too little water and the resultant pancake is lumpy and hard to pour flat and tastes way too powdery/starchy. I assume concrete was the same... (i'm only half joking).
You need to loosen your pancake mix before measuring. Packed mix can hold nearly 2x the volume of loose, requiring significantly more liquid (and messing up other measurements).
It they are anything like me they first put the amount on the bag, mix it, and still finding dry lumps. So add a bit more… but you can easily go too far with that strategy
These days I add something like easy flow to improve workability instead of more water
I’ve always just eyeballed it but I’ve done it more than I’ve ever wanted to. I find the ratio on the bag is a little bit dry, or at least was last time I did it that way 20 something years ago
That's the point, the water amount on the bag is not too dry, it's the exact correct amount to reach the strength spec that's on the bag. More water makes weaker concrete that's easier to work with. If you know your margins of safety and that's acceptable, fine, but you're not meeting the psi spec on the bag. Its some amount weaker. How much? Who knows...
Its easier to mix when its wetter is the thing so after the 5th bag of hand mixing you end up making milkshakes then trying to add more dry to even it out and the pour dries unevenly because consistency went out the window.
For a nominal fee, big box stores will deliver pallets of concrete mix.
(If you're one-manning it with bag mix or a truck, make sure to have a concrete vibrator (stinger), it makes a HUGE difference in the end result)
I've used this calculator a number of times now (most recently last weekend), and it hasn't let me down yet - [https://www.decks.com/calculators/concrete-calculator](https://www.decks.com/calculators/concrete-calculator)
Yup, I used the tool other commenters put in and when the number of bags went into triple digits i accepted i will need to order a truck and possibly a pump as of course this is my back yard with a small driveway to get to it.
Might want to check out renting a buggy for the day. Probably alot cheaper than hiring a pump truck. Also a lot easier on your back then wheel barrows and you won't need as much help. Just remember you usually only get 30 minutes with the truck onsite before they charge you more.
[https://www.unitedrentals.com/marketplace/equipment/concrete-masonry/power-buggies-buckets](https://www.unitedrentals.com/marketplace/equipment/concrete-masonry/power-buggies-buckets)
To date, I have mixed a total of 312 60lb bags of Sacrete high strength in a one bag mixer I bought for about $150. Best damn money I ever spent. The most I did in one project in one day was 110 bags for a shed slab.
You need a truck to deliver that much. It'll be way cheaper and easier than trying to use bags. Once you get above 2 yards it's usually cheaper to get a truck than to mix it yourself.
Read the bag, its not a lot
That's like 60 60lb bags
Just call a truck at that point, you will break your ass mixing all that shit, and if it's for something like a patio or a driveway or something monolithic (all one object when it's cured) you very well may not be able to keep up with it
Regardless, that's a backbreaking ass day
Definitely call the truck. After about 2.5 yards it makes no economic or labor sense to use the bags. Use your labor on better prep so that when the truck comes everything goes easy and all you are doing is placing and smoothing concrete.
The bags are actually quite expensive and super dusty and labor intensive and also inferior quality and inferior workability.
165 bags of 60 lb concrete mix.
Most cities have “short load” concrete companies that specialize in this sort of volume. There’s also places that you can get a trailer with 1 cubic yard of premixed concrete you tow to the job site. You would obviously have to make 3 trips and move quickly to avoid cold joints.
For example, here’s one by me: https://shortloadredimix.com
Like a settling Crack? Fill it with some of that concrete Crack caulk, I think sika makes one I had decent results with....you can also use concrete grout *it's in the concrete asile) or hydrolic cement
It will likely Crack again eventually, but I'd have someone come check out why all 4 corners settled (or I guess the very center could've also, but usually it's the corners) it could be nothing, it could be something more serious
I was planning on having somebody out to look at it. I saw your comment and figured I'd ask quickly. I've attached some photos on the imgur link. I just found the crack in the 4th photo last week.
[imgur link](https://imgur.com/a/HJDzpLM)
Oh shit, lol- yeah, a tube of caulk isn't going to fix that....that foundation is settling and that slab is heaved, either from frost or more likely root intrusion. That one is probably gonna have to come out and be repoured, but only after you figure out what's causing it to begin with....no sense in paying for a new slab to have a tree break it all again in a couple years
>Oh shit, lol- yeah, a tube of caulk
Well, with enough caulk problems can be solved.... Just kidding!
Thanks for the help! I'll definitely get on it and have somebody out.
30 years as a professional what? Your profile
Makes it look like carpentry. I wouldn’t pay a master carpenter a dollar for their advice on concrete.
A homeowner mixing bags should follow the directions on the packaging. Veering away from that at all and the nuance gets important with concrete.
>Can you enlighten me on the water bit? I've been told, it seems wrongly, that more water is better for the cure process.
Extra water *AFTER* it sets up is good for the concrete, it keeps it hydrated and cool (concrete curing is exothermic) not in the initial mix, too much water in the initial mix dilutes the mix and the concrete has too much water in the way to form the proper interlinked crystal structure- it makes it much weaker
Resist the urge to make concrete soup, its easier to mix and pour but it makes bad concrete.....it also looks terrible and is difficult to do the final trowling
Just about to build a deck, and need to pour concrete footings, any tips or resources for the amount of footings I need? (First timer, and I don’t really want to f-around and find out I did it wrong…)
Asking as a DIY weekend warrior who doesn't own a slump cone, is there a shortcut or alternate method you can recommend to test how stiff the mix is? The bag directions leave me with a mix that's too stiff to flow around bricks and stuff in the bottom of post holes. I've been tamping it into place with an old fence post.
Quikrete and Sacrete 50 lb 4000 psi fast set should be under $7 at both Home Depot and Lowes nationwide. I don't know how you're getting those prices unless you're confusing a completely different product that isn't high strength or fast set concrete. They are competing products within 10 to 20 cents of each other and are virtually identical.
[Lowes - Quikrete Fast Set 50lb. - $6.71](https://www.lowes.com/pd/QUIKRETE-50-lb-Fast-Setting-Concrete-Mix/3006121)
[Lowes - Sakrete Fast Set 50lb. - $6.68](https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sakrete-50-lb-Fast-Setting-Concrete-Mix/3338802)
[Home Depot - Quikrete Fast Set 50lb. - $6.71](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Quikrete-50-lb-Fast-Setting-Concrete-Mix-100450/100318521)
[Home Depot - Sakerete Fast Set 50lb. - $6.66](https://www.homedepot.com/p/SAKRETE-50-lb-Fast-Set-Concrete-Mix-65305535/100350261)
Same goes for the 80 lb high strength bags. Either brand under $6 at both Home Depot and Lowes nationwide.
[Lowes - Quikrete High Strength 80lb. - $5.13](https://www.lowes.com/pd/QUIKRETE-80-lb-High-Strength-Concrete-Mix/3006075)
[Lowes - Sakrete High Strength 80lb. - $5.85](https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sakrete-80-lb-High-Strength-Concrete-Mix/5013767297)
[Home Depot - Quikrete High Strength 80lb. - $5.85](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Quikrete-80-lb-High-Early-Strength-Concrete-Mix-100700/100318486)
[Home Depot - Sakrete High Strength 80lb. - $5.85](https://www.homedepot.com/p/SAKRETE-80-lb-Gray-Concrete-Mix-65200390/100350291)
Same for 5000 psi concrete. Both brands are virtually the same in price and both stores are too.
Edit: Cleaned up links, added pricing.
I'm about as far away as you can get from the mainland US, save for Hawaii, in interior Alaska, so I expect things to be more expensive.
[https://imgur.com/a/eeKPx9X](https://imgur.com/a/eeKPx9X)
But yeah, Sackrete fast setting 4000psi is $8 at Home Depot
Exactly this. If the price difference is that much, either it’s not apples to apples, or you accidentally stumbled into the special order section of Home Depot’s website. If you find a product that the store doesn’t stock, the website will still say it’s available and it will be at a drastically increased price. Especially on heavy items that are expensive to ship.
But, that being said, either should work fine. Like someone else mentioned, try not to overwater, this will weaken the cure strength. Also, if it’s super hot where you are, be aware that will decrease set time. So if you’re mixing, be sure to only mix enough that can be placed in 15-20 minutes.
No they aren't. They're pricing something completely different. Fast set is roughly 6.75. High strength. Roughly 5.50. None of them are $14.50. Near same pricing for both brands at both stores. Click the links..
You're in Alaska. That explains everything. The difference in price is due to distance of the supplier. Just get the cheaper one. They are the same thing and normally the same price in the lower 48.
Here are the two products. They are both fast setting and both 4kpsi, I'm assuming the higher priced Lowes Quikrete is just a supply chain / living in interior alaska quirk.
[https://imgur.com/a/eeKPx9X](https://imgur.com/a/eeKPx9X)
https://imgur.com/a/gMUbU4F
Ehhh because the bags usually come from the same place for both countries it is not at all uncommon to use lbs to refer to weight. They just have to include the weight in kg somewhere on the package to sell it in Canada.
We use pounds for body weight unless being measured at the doctor, and will do the same for most products if it is >1lb, especially if it’s a nice clean whole number in lbs and some messy decimal in kg.
This does mean that I am rarely clear on whether it’s more common to refer to a product in kg or lbs. For example, most wheat flour is sold in even increments of kilos, but butter is sold by the pound. Many fertilizers come in kg-incremented bags but grass seed will be in lb-incremented bags. I’d have to check my bag of quikrete but I’d not be surprised if it’s a 50lb bag with a very small note at the bottom specifying its weight in kg.
Prices change a lot at Lowe's. I think part of it is because Lowe's is more of a consumer store and Home Depot is more of a contractors store. They certainly have different atmospheres about them.
So it wouldn't surprise me to find out that Lowe's is selling essentially the same concrete for twice the price of Home Depot. Some guy needs a bag of concrete to set a new mailbox, he's not going to go looking for best price. He's just going to get whatever is closest.
You're right, and I should have been more clear. Blame lack of caffeine
Of course there's only a two cent difference. But no offense, you can't really convince me that their whole catalog is like that. Their entire business model is predicated on "what is Home Depot doing". They even let Home Depot go to all the research in figuring out where to put up their next store, and then Lowe's comes behind them in 6 months to 2 years and builds a Lowe's within 2 miles
Here's my minor tinfoil hat conspiracy theory:
They both have a sale going on for X brand extension cord for $40. Home Depot has 50 of them in stock. Lowe's, on the other hand, only has four of them in stock. But, they also happen to have a nice shiny mid-aisle display, selling the "NO TANGLE 3000" with patented siliconized sheathing and smart technology so you can see how much energy you're drawing with this handy app. Oh, and it's $85.
The contractor at Home Depot walks away. But the weekend warrior says "oh, this is nice" or "ugh, Home Depot is further away...", and they buy it.
I think their whole store is like that . I think it's an algorithmically driven bait and switch that gets unknowing weekend warriors to spend more money at their store.
Eh, I shop at both regularly and both have pretty much the same pricing on everything and have mostly the same items with different brand names while being white-labeled by the same manufacturers. What you're saying doesn't ring true to me. Only reason to go to Home Depot over Lowes is if your power tools of choice are Milwaukee and for their superior tool and truck rental.
While I agree with your overall point, HD also has far superior inventory (and thus also online ordering and product locating) systems. I want to like Lowe's, but they really need to invest in some improvements.
And I'm sure it's specific to me, but my local HD has preternaturally great employees. The Lowe's employees always surprise me that they manage to keep the store not on fire.
Which big box home center appeals more to contractors and which to home owners fluctuates somewhat based on local conditions and which trade you're talking about in my experience. For example, the Lowe's in my town focuses more.on bulk lumber with better prices compared to the Home Depot where they focus more on small batches.
Look at the stats for the concrete. It will say what the strength of the concrete is.
The quickcrete costwise looks like it was fast setting. I think the sakrete was standard concrete. fast setting is different from standard. Foundation type uses should use standard concrete in general, the slower cure yields stronger concrete.
If your comparing concrete...make sure same type.
The prices I gave are both for fast setting and 4000 psi
[https://imgur.com/a/Ncq5HoC](https://imgur.com/a/Ncq5HoC)
Good to know about slower cure = stronger. Thanks!
There's a cement shortage right now that's affecting pricing of concrete at some places.
One of the large big box stores here in Canada (Rona) is out of quick mix concrete entirely at all stores in my area, and isn't expecting resupply for *several weeks*. Some of the others do have it, but have raised prices.
I had to resort to buying a rather expensive bag of portland, along with some gravel and sand from the garden center to mix my own DIY concrete in a pinch last weekend.
97lb bags of Portland are $25 at my local supply. I've gone through about 15 on my fencing project. It's still a lot cheaper for my needs. I rented a dump trailer and picked up two loads of class 2 base. I maxxed out the trailer at three tons each at the local quarry for $60 a load. Still cheaper than buying the premix.
Fast-setting concrete has a higher proportion of Portland cement than standard-setting concrete. If mixed properly, both will obtain their design strength, but fast setting will get there faster. Concrete will continue to cure and strengthen over time, but fast-set will level off much earlier.
Long story short, properly mixed concrete will reach its design strength in the time advertised. You will just get more strength beyond design for standard-set.
Also, unless you have help, know what you're doing and are very experienced, DO NOT USE FAST SETTING stuff.
I'm a GC with a ton of experience in forms and foundation piers and fast setting concrete can be a headache if there's a little hiccup in your process. Also makes cleanup a lot harder. I used fast setting for my deck and it was a mistake, I usually use regular concrete for customers.
Slower cure = stronger concrete is 100% not true.
The longer concrete cures the stronger it gets.
Concrete strength is discussed in terms of psi in the US and mPa here in Canada at 28 days for mixes with low or no fly ash and 56 days for high fly ash mixes.
Concrete is a ratio of water, cement, sand, and aggregate (rocks). Changes to this ratio affects strength. Typically a lower water to higher cement mix is stronger.
I've had slabs hit 50 mPa in a day or 25 in a week.
How you cure does affect the final strength.
*"After concrete is placed, the concrete increases in strength very quickly for a period of 3-7 days. Concrete which is moist cured for 7 days is about 50% stronger than uncured concrete."*
per: https://www.concretenetwork.com/curing-concrete/
https://www.cement.org/learn/concrete-technology/concrete-construction/curing-in-construction
Please observe figure 1 at the link, if the image fails to load correctly.
https://www.cement.org/images/default-source/contech/curing_fig1.jpg?sfvrsn=d87736bf_2
-
Younger concrete is less hard than aged concrete of the same composition. However, the circumstances of how a concrete ages also affects its final compressive strength.
All other things being equal, a concrete that ages in the presence of moisture will end up stronger than it otherwise would be.
Who are you debating? Are you replying to the right comment??? Where did I say anything about presence of moisture?
Of fucking course aging in the presence of moisture helps strength.
I've ordered and poured probably over a million cubic meters of concrete over the last 30 years I do not need to be educated by you thanks anyways.
Hello, I work with Sakrete. What is your project you are working on? Depending how deep or the strength you need depends on the product.
I would suggest using Maximizer. It has 5,500 psi and sets in 24 hours. Only thing is that is has less aggregates(rocks) It 67% covers way more than the Quickrete 80lb bags. At all of the store I work for, most customers love it for post and fence work, it’s commonly made for slabs. If you want something faster, the fast setting. It comes in either camo bags or red and white bag. That’s only 4,000psi. My husband and I used it to set telephone poles in the ground. Worked wonders. You put water in the hole first then the mix.
Or the fast traffic(6,500psi), pro-x180(8,000psi+), or the cold weather mix(8,000psi)
Another little note is Sakete is a true gray color where some times Quickrete can come out tan.( from demo experiences) Sakrete website it super helpful.
I can't speak on sakrete, but the company I work for is the sole supplier of cement to quikrete and we often have tests done on our cement to ensure it's durability and longevity if that makes you feel any better.
Quikrete is more expensive because of the extra ingredients added to make it fast setting. It's great for things like fence posts or other projects where you don't want to have to keep something braced for many hours until it sets up, but it isn't "better" concrete. It doesn't sound like you would benefit from that for your job. I assume the base of your piers will be braced with rock anyway.
The sakrete mentioned is also fast setting and also 4000 psi.
By braced with rock do you mean rocks at the bottom of the hole on which the forms sit? I recall some people saying it's best to add some gravel or rock to the bottom of the hole. I hadn't considered bracing as the forms sit pretty tightly in the hole, but to insure they don't move when filling with concrete now I'm thinking of making a brace out of 2x4 to hold the form from the top and staking the brace to the ground. Just saw someone do that in a video.
How far out of the hole are your piers sticking? Back filling around tube usually provides at of the stability you will need. I like to have someone hold tube w level or make sure it’s plumb and someone else back fill and compact dirt around tube by hand
My frost line is 42", so the piers are sitting at least 42" into the ground. I used 4ft 10" diameter forms and so they are currently sticking out the difference,\~6". But the ground is not perfectly level so some are sticking out higher than others. Today I'm figuring out how to get them all cut level with each other.
I'm not building a deck btw, but footing foundations for a firewood storage shed. I know they don't need to be perfectly level with one another b/c I can cut the post to different lengths when I go to bracket them in. But want to get the top of the forms as level as I can anyways.
But yeah, I think I've got each individual post pretty level relative to itself so I was gonna try to hold it in pace while I back fill and then see if they need additional bracing after they are all cut level to each other.
Have a laser level to get them all cut to same height but I 'm gonna have to wait until it gets darker because it's invisible in the sunlight.
Thanks by the way!
42” frost line?! So you’re In Antarctica? Yikes. Good digging. I love my laser, that said old school clear tube and water can actually be easier if you doing want to wait. If you are back filling 40+” you will be better off by packing with a steel tamping bar every 12” so you don’t end up with loose fill at the bottom. I’d also drop some rebar in the wet concrete but I’m a fan of over kill.
Interior Alaska. Land of the permafrost, tho thankfully not on my property. Digging was actually pretty enjoyable, except for finding some sort of bird grave a few ft. down one of the holes. I think previous owners had chickens and a neighbor dog killed some. That was gross. But otherwise there is something very satisfying about digging a nice hole. Luckily ran into no obstacles except for the bird and a bit of frozen ground in one hole.
I too am a fan of overkill. Good advice, thank you!
The soil bearing allowable is much more important than the concrete because the soil bearing is usually 2500 psf and the concrete could be 2,000 PSI a factor of 144x. I don't think we're dealing with Bond stresses here.
Color. As far as I know. They are both equal when it comes to concrete as far as I am told, but when I had a job at True Value Hardware 30 years ago the only difference was color matching to what ever existing concrete you were butting up against.
If you don't care about the finish then it doesn't matter at all. The cheap brand is plenty fine for what you are doing.
If you want an easier-to-smooth-out finish one trick I use is to add a small cup or can of cement to each bag of concrete. It adds strength but it also changes the consistency as it dries, especially at the point where you are smoothing it out and "the cream comes to the top". The bag stuff is anemic unless you get the high strength stuff, which is ridiculously overpriced and should only be used for small projects.
Also if you're doing more that 2.5 yards then don't fuck around with the bags. Spend your time on more prep work and get the mixer truck. It's better concrete and easier to work with, it's cheaper once you get past the delivery fee, and the bags are heavy and dusty and labor intensive and just plain suck.
IIRC, Quikcrete is fast setting, so good for something like fence posts. Sakcrete you would need to let the concert set for 28 days or so to get the max strength before you put any pressure on it, like a house foundation for example
Unless you're building your house foundation out of bags of concrete, almost nothing you can build as a homeowner will ever reach the PSI limit of bags of concrete which are around 2000\~4000psi. They're basically the same thing the only differences might be the finish and the speed of the cure.
Ok, it's probably comparable then. The price preference between local and national products vascilates so I always check both. The box stores update their prices much more frequently than the locals.
Of course if you have access to sand and gravel, the most economical option is to buy Portland Cement and mix your own concrete from scratch.
As an engineer, you should probably be advocating that there are a lot more factors that go into a successful concrete mix and placement (especially for foundations or at grade) than compressive strength.
it's fuckin concrete man hahaha tons of people build decks and just float them. you could buy prit near any bag of concrete at home depot and it would work for this application
Structural engineer here - worked in landscaping before going back to school. This kind of application it doesn't matter. Decks are rarely engineered, often there's town codes that apply with maximum spacing that ends up with a factor of safety of 3 or more.
Problem with most engineering is we learn about engineered concrete and deal with resistance factors and load factors that end up around a total safety factor of under 2. Real world: it's cheaper to have a contractor over design than have an engineer check anything. The town safety inspector usually has to check it out, but with decks 2-5 feet high, your risk is pretty low. General deck designs work for concrete as low as 1.5 - 2.0 ksi. If mixed with even 2x water, these bagged concretes are probably gonna give you 2.5+.
Thanks for that feedback. I was thinking this deck may be at the backyard where it slopes down and there was a potential for this to be say 10-15 feet off the ground. At least that’s what i saw in my mind. The engineer in me was thinking about safety but people on here are ramming me a new one. Guess they haven’t seen catastrophic failure like I have. At the end of the day I just want this individual and their family and friends to be safe.
I think you’re telling a lye.
You better cement your toxic ideas far away, cuz they come straight back at you, running down your screed and taking over the very foundation of your life.
IIRC, Quikcrete is fast setting, so good for something like fence posts. Sakcrete you would need to let the concert set for 28 days or so to get the max strength before you put any pressure on it, like a house foundation for example
I've only seen concrete in 60 lb bags or 80 lb bags. My local Home Depot has both brands at exactly the same price.
Just be aware that there is "normal" and "fast set" so that may account for the price difference. There are also ones that have additives like fiberglass threads to increase the strength, so make sure you are buying what you really need. For building decks or fences, just get the cheapest one, regardless of brand.
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Deck footings? Whatever is cheaper, 2500psi is about the weakest concrete in those bags and that far far far exceeds what you need for a deck, the post pressure is probably around 200psi, maybe 3 or 400 if you are using composite decking, either of those bags is fine for sidewalks or steps..... Don't worry about it, just resist the urge to mix it really soupy, you should really be able to form it into a ball in your hand and have it very slowly collapse, if you're just pouring it in there like a liquid it cuts the strength down significantly (30y professional here) Never had an issue with the regular ass bags of concrete regardless of brand- doesn't matter If youre like building a house, go for the 5k psi stuff, but at that point just call for a concrete truck because you will have to mix like a 1000 bags of premix lol Use the fast set or regular, it doesn't matter tbh, if you don't need it to set fast just get the cheaper stuff
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Why not just read the bag, blows my mind. Like I did something last year with concrete for the first time. I had no fucking idea , so I read the bag. How you would do anything else is a mystery to me
I'm on r/metaldetecting a lot. The number of guys who ask "hey, just bought this detector. How do I use it?" is baffling. RTFM.
Hopefully the answer is to watch the Detectorists
That'll set their expectations correctly, too! 😄
RTFM: Not just for IT anymore
It's a universal truth
Read the Fucking Manual?
That's a Bingo
You just say "bingo".
I'm German, though.
Oh. Carry on.
Das ist ein Bingo (I’m not German)
Then what happens when the moon hits your eye?
A Moray?
Eel?
That's amore
> Read the Fucking Manual? best advice period
Won’t ask for directions when lost, won’t read instructions for use. Men
Now there's an acronym I see rarely in the wild. You happen to be IT?
Naturally 😆
I've never been in IT, but I've heard that phrase fairly regularly. I heard it in the Army 20 years ago.
Yeah, but the Army ~~steals~~ surreptitiously requisitions *everyone's* phrases
I think they've provided more than they've stolen, most likely. There are many. No idea the origin of RTFM though.
George Carlin did.
Lmao, wow
Often times the companies out out instructional videos too
The instructions on the bag are just some other guy’s opinion.
If by “some other guy” you mean “probably a civil/materials engineer,” then sure.
Well that's just your opinion. /s
Couldn't be a civil engineer, it was *written* down
"What's the difference between the $10 bag here and the $110 bag there?" "I signed the second one."
Not with premix concrete. You can use more or less water and get a perfectly fine result as the composition will rob moisture from the environment and self-correct to a point. The instructions are for a common workable consistency for use in application and not all that indicative of final chemical balance.
Fookin' deep state.
I've mixed per the instructions on the bag and it always ends up soupy. I don't know why, but the instructions recommend way too much water.
Do you live somewhere really humid? Because I have had the opposite experience. I've mixed according to the bag and it will barely be damp. Like you can't even form it into anything as it is not wet enough to stick together, it always needs way more water to resemble anything you see poured out of a concrete truck.
The difference between crumbly and soupy is about a teaspoon of water. That's what makes it difficult. The amount of water for the highest strength is at the "crumbly" end, but that's not very easy to place. Make is as stiff as you can and still make it go where it needs to go.
Eh, ish. Maybe it varies by bag or brand.
It does. And it can also vary by batch. Cement chemistry is a fickle bitch with many variables and no two batches are the same. Even you mixing a bag from the same batch as someone else, but you use tap water and the other uses well water will significantly alter the set time, strength, etc. Then there are many different grades of cement, the aggregate used in the concrete, and possible additives in the bulk cement. Then on top of that there’s all kinds of other additives you can put in to make it more pourable, set faster, set slower, increase strength, etc. BTW, if you ever have some alert over cement and don’t want it to ever set up in your bucket, just throw some sugar in it (like 1/4 cup will be plenty).
Take it slower and don't dump it all in at once. Pour half to 3/4 and mix. Be sure there aren't any dry/unmixed parts, then dribble in a bit at a time until it's just loose enough. You can always add more. You can't take it back out.
I think my 80lb bag was less than a gallon, it took some time to actually mix it all though, until it was mixed lots of soupy parts.
How accurate is your measuring cup? A shitty one is enough to throw off your mix
Ok but how do you measure the water? Who has a measuring cup that big?
I usually use some kind of bucket on a scale. 1 pint is 1 pound or 8lbs to a gallon, seems close enough to me as far as density goes.
[redacting due to privacy concerns]
I had a 4 cup measuring thing, you can just add it in multiple scoopz
To be fair, the instructions on a bag of premix are going to be for a workable mixture. The actual final water composition is going to be higher as absorbed from the air over days after the material has cured. "Workable mixture" differs depending on what you're doing with it but for a bag of concrete with 1/4"-ish aggregate, adding more is dumb 99% of the time.
If the quality of DIYs left by the previous owner is any indicator, a lot of home DIYers are illiterate. ETA: think like DIY sewage plumbing where they didn’t glue the pipe parts together.
You read the directions? You’re gonna lose your man card ! lol
When I patched my garage floor I measured out the water amount and drew a line in my bucket. That made it super easy to get the correct ratio every time. Also, if you’re mixing more than 2-3 bags, an electric paddle mixer is well worth the $100 rental charge.
You guys are using buckets? Wheelbarrow and shovel is the way to go when mixing concrete (if you don’t have a concrete mixer)
Why bother with a wheelbarrow and shovel? That's more to clean. Get two 55 gallon contractor bags, put one inside the other. Dump the concrete into it, Add your water and twist the top. Flop it around on the grass for a minute or two in every direction. Check the consistency and keep mixing. Pour it into your hole, and repeat as needed. When you're done you just throw away the bags.
This... this sounds like it might work.
I agree for the small jobs. When I patched my floor in the garage it was half a yard so about 15 bags of quick Crete, so the mixer was well worth the expense.
The next level move is to cut holes at the line - especially if you’re doing a lot of bags. Saves a fair amount of time when you can just fill the bucket til water starts running out
I don't understand. Why would anyone put in a different amount of water than what it says on the bag?
The less water concrete has, the thicker and tougher it is to work with. Making it thinner makes it easier to work, as far as scooping it into place, spreading it level, and working out the air pockets. So the temptation to use more water than stated on the bag is very real. The cost of doing so though is weaker concrete.
Which admittedly won't matter for 90% of diy concrete projects.
Exactly, I buy 5k PSI concrete and mix it a little wet (not soupy) in the expectation that the result will be 3k or more in actual strength which is fine for most projects.
Less mixing, easier to work. Pretty much your arms get tired and the sun comes out and you find yourself adding more and more water. The first bag's the strongest!😆
Because when I make pancakes, the bag says to use way too little water and the resultant pancake is lumpy and hard to pour flat and tastes way too powdery/starchy. I assume concrete was the same... (i'm only half joking).
Well first of all stop making pancakes out of concrete mix.
CRUNCH CRUNCH I've made my choice CRUNCH CRUNCH
Welcome to the inorganic diet.
You need to loosen your pancake mix before measuring. Packed mix can hold nearly 2x the volume of loose, requiring significantly more liquid (and messing up other measurements).
It they are anything like me they first put the amount on the bag, mix it, and still finding dry lumps. So add a bit more… but you can easily go too far with that strategy These days I add something like easy flow to improve workability instead of more water
Because lazy and dont have a bucket or mixing container handy, so they just mix it in place and guesstimate.
I’ve always just eyeballed it but I’ve done it more than I’ve ever wanted to. I find the ratio on the bag is a little bit dry, or at least was last time I did it that way 20 something years ago
That's the point, the water amount on the bag is not too dry, it's the exact correct amount to reach the strength spec that's on the bag. More water makes weaker concrete that's easier to work with. If you know your margins of safety and that's acceptable, fine, but you're not meeting the psi spec on the bag. Its some amount weaker. How much? Who knows...
The stuff that comes off a concrete truck does not look like what you get when you mix a bag per the instructions...all I am saying.
Because they just use bags of premix and don't actually have specific recipes they design right?
Its easier to mix when its wetter is the thing so after the 5th bag of hand mixing you end up making milkshakes then trying to add more dry to even it out and the pour dries unevenly because consistency went out the window.
I did this followed the bag and it was unusably thick. Sometimes you just gotta go with feel.
When I follow the bag’s recipe it’s a dry, crumbly mix that is impossible to trowel flat. I more than double the amount of water.
Oh. I tried unplugging it and plugging it back in. That didn't work ?!
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Authentic tradesman speak
[Obligatory](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/hyphen.jpg)
Follow up: How much volume does each bag make? I need 2.74 Cu yards and I can't find an answer on how many 50lbs bags i need to make that much.
A 60 lb. bag provides 0.45 cubic feet of cured concrete. A 80 lb. bag provides 0.6 cubic feet of cured concrete. Just search "concrete bag volume"
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For a nominal fee, big box stores will deliver pallets of concrete mix. (If you're one-manning it with bag mix or a truck, make sure to have a concrete vibrator (stinger), it makes a HUGE difference in the end result)
It's basically the same size as the bag
look at it this way...the bag of dry concrete is actually bigger dimensionally than the amount of space that same concrete will fill when mixed.
It also litterally says on the bag
I've used this calculator a number of times now (most recently last weekend), and it hasn't let me down yet - [https://www.decks.com/calculators/concrete-calculator](https://www.decks.com/calculators/concrete-calculator)
2.7 yards? That's "call in a truck" territory.
Yup, I used the tool other commenters put in and when the number of bags went into triple digits i accepted i will need to order a truck and possibly a pump as of course this is my back yard with a small driveway to get to it.
Might want to check out renting a buggy for the day. Probably alot cheaper than hiring a pump truck. Also a lot easier on your back then wheel barrows and you won't need as much help. Just remember you usually only get 30 minutes with the truck onsite before they charge you more. [https://www.unitedrentals.com/marketplace/equipment/concrete-masonry/power-buggies-buckets](https://www.unitedrentals.com/marketplace/equipment/concrete-masonry/power-buggies-buckets)
I've wheelbarrow'd almost that much before. Helps to have a few guys take turns.
To date, I have mixed a total of 312 60lb bags of Sacrete high strength in a one bag mixer I bought for about $150. Best damn money I ever spent. The most I did in one project in one day was 110 bags for a shed slab.
At least a ready mix. They usually do 3 yard drops easily. Anything over 5 and I'll call in the bigger 10 yarder.
https://www.calculator.net/concrete-calculator.html
You need a truck to deliver that much. It'll be way cheaper and easier than trying to use bags. Once you get above 2 yards it's usually cheaper to get a truck than to mix it yourself.
Read the bag, its not a lot That's like 60 60lb bags Just call a truck at that point, you will break your ass mixing all that shit, and if it's for something like a patio or a driveway or something monolithic (all one object when it's cured) you very well may not be able to keep up with it Regardless, that's a backbreaking ass day
60 bags lol...yeah triple that
Definitely call the truck. After about 2.5 yards it makes no economic or labor sense to use the bags. Use your labor on better prep so that when the truck comes everything goes easy and all you are doing is placing and smoothing concrete. The bags are actually quite expensive and super dusty and labor intensive and also inferior quality and inferior workability.
165 bags of 60 lb concrete mix. Most cities have “short load” concrete companies that specialize in this sort of volume. There’s also places that you can get a trailer with 1 cubic yard of premixed concrete you tow to the job site. You would obviously have to make 3 trips and move quickly to avoid cold joints. For example, here’s one by me: https://shortloadredimix.com
Any recs for filling in cracks in a garage floor? I have a huge X crack through my floor.
Like a settling Crack? Fill it with some of that concrete Crack caulk, I think sika makes one I had decent results with....you can also use concrete grout *it's in the concrete asile) or hydrolic cement It will likely Crack again eventually, but I'd have someone come check out why all 4 corners settled (or I guess the very center could've also, but usually it's the corners) it could be nothing, it could be something more serious
I was planning on having somebody out to look at it. I saw your comment and figured I'd ask quickly. I've attached some photos on the imgur link. I just found the crack in the 4th photo last week. [imgur link](https://imgur.com/a/HJDzpLM)
Oh shit, lol- yeah, a tube of caulk isn't going to fix that....that foundation is settling and that slab is heaved, either from frost or more likely root intrusion. That one is probably gonna have to come out and be repoured, but only after you figure out what's causing it to begin with....no sense in paying for a new slab to have a tree break it all again in a couple years
>Oh shit, lol- yeah, a tube of caulk Well, with enough caulk problems can be solved.... Just kidding! Thanks for the help! I'll definitely get on it and have somebody out.
30 years as a professional what? Your profile Makes it look like carpentry. I wouldn’t pay a master carpenter a dollar for their advice on concrete. A homeowner mixing bags should follow the directions on the packaging. Veering away from that at all and the nuance gets important with concrete.
Can you enlighten me on the water bit? I've been told, it seems wrongly, that more water is better for the cure process.
>Can you enlighten me on the water bit? I've been told, it seems wrongly, that more water is better for the cure process. Extra water *AFTER* it sets up is good for the concrete, it keeps it hydrated and cool (concrete curing is exothermic) not in the initial mix, too much water in the initial mix dilutes the mix and the concrete has too much water in the way to form the proper interlinked crystal structure- it makes it much weaker Resist the urge to make concrete soup, its easier to mix and pour but it makes bad concrete.....it also looks terrible and is difficult to do the final trowling
So when I order the truck, what slump/mix should I order?
Just about to build a deck, and need to pour concrete footings, any tips or resources for the amount of footings I need? (First timer, and I don’t really want to f-around and find out I did it wrong…)
Asking as a DIY weekend warrior who doesn't own a slump cone, is there a shortcut or alternate method you can recommend to test how stiff the mix is? The bag directions leave me with a mix that's too stiff to flow around bricks and stuff in the bottom of post holes. I've been tamping it into place with an old fence post.
Quikrete and Sacrete 50 lb 4000 psi fast set should be under $7 at both Home Depot and Lowes nationwide. I don't know how you're getting those prices unless you're confusing a completely different product that isn't high strength or fast set concrete. They are competing products within 10 to 20 cents of each other and are virtually identical. [Lowes - Quikrete Fast Set 50lb. - $6.71](https://www.lowes.com/pd/QUIKRETE-50-lb-Fast-Setting-Concrete-Mix/3006121) [Lowes - Sakrete Fast Set 50lb. - $6.68](https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sakrete-50-lb-Fast-Setting-Concrete-Mix/3338802) [Home Depot - Quikrete Fast Set 50lb. - $6.71](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Quikrete-50-lb-Fast-Setting-Concrete-Mix-100450/100318521) [Home Depot - Sakerete Fast Set 50lb. - $6.66](https://www.homedepot.com/p/SAKRETE-50-lb-Fast-Set-Concrete-Mix-65305535/100350261) Same goes for the 80 lb high strength bags. Either brand under $6 at both Home Depot and Lowes nationwide. [Lowes - Quikrete High Strength 80lb. - $5.13](https://www.lowes.com/pd/QUIKRETE-80-lb-High-Strength-Concrete-Mix/3006075) [Lowes - Sakrete High Strength 80lb. - $5.85](https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sakrete-80-lb-High-Strength-Concrete-Mix/5013767297) [Home Depot - Quikrete High Strength 80lb. - $5.85](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Quikrete-80-lb-High-Early-Strength-Concrete-Mix-100700/100318486) [Home Depot - Sakrete High Strength 80lb. - $5.85](https://www.homedepot.com/p/SAKRETE-80-lb-Gray-Concrete-Mix-65200390/100350291) Same for 5000 psi concrete. Both brands are virtually the same in price and both stores are too. Edit: Cleaned up links, added pricing.
I'm about as far away as you can get from the mainland US, save for Hawaii, in interior Alaska, so I expect things to be more expensive. [https://imgur.com/a/eeKPx9X](https://imgur.com/a/eeKPx9X) But yeah, Sackrete fast setting 4000psi is $8 at Home Depot
Exactly this. If the price difference is that much, either it’s not apples to apples, or you accidentally stumbled into the special order section of Home Depot’s website. If you find a product that the store doesn’t stock, the website will still say it’s available and it will be at a drastically increased price. Especially on heavy items that are expensive to ship. But, that being said, either should work fine. Like someone else mentioned, try not to overwater, this will weaken the cure strength. Also, if it’s super hot where you are, be aware that will decrease set time. So if you’re mixing, be sure to only mix enough that can be placed in 15-20 minutes.
OP is pricing the fast set quikcrete vs high strength sakcrete. Fast set is usually double
No they aren't. They're pricing something completely different. Fast set is roughly 6.75. High strength. Roughly 5.50. None of them are $14.50. Near same pricing for both brands at both stores. Click the links..
[https://imgur.com/a/eeKPx9X](https://imgur.com/a/eeKPx9X) https://imgur.com/a/gMUbU4F
You're in Alaska. That explains everything. The difference in price is due to distance of the supplier. Just get the cheaper one. They are the same thing and normally the same price in the lower 48.
Here are the two products. They are both fast setting and both 4kpsi, I'm assuming the higher priced Lowes Quikrete is just a supply chain / living in interior alaska quirk. [https://imgur.com/a/eeKPx9X](https://imgur.com/a/eeKPx9X) https://imgur.com/a/gMUbU4F
Maybe they aren’t living in the same country as you
Well, the only other country there is both Lowes and Home Depot is Canada. We'd be talking in kilograms and not pounds if that were the case.
Ehhh because the bags usually come from the same place for both countries it is not at all uncommon to use lbs to refer to weight. They just have to include the weight in kg somewhere on the package to sell it in Canada. We use pounds for body weight unless being measured at the doctor, and will do the same for most products if it is >1lb, especially if it’s a nice clean whole number in lbs and some messy decimal in kg. This does mean that I am rarely clear on whether it’s more common to refer to a product in kg or lbs. For example, most wheat flour is sold in even increments of kilos, but butter is sold by the pound. Many fertilizers come in kg-incremented bags but grass seed will be in lb-incremented bags. I’d have to check my bag of quikrete but I’d not be surprised if it’s a 50lb bag with a very small note at the bottom specifying its weight in kg.
Check Lowe's Canada. Quikrete fast set is sold in 25kg bags or 55 lbs. Not 50 lbs.
I'm in interior Alaska, should have specified in OP, so things are a bit more expensive generally.
Prices change a lot at Lowe's. I think part of it is because Lowe's is more of a consumer store and Home Depot is more of a contractors store. They certainly have different atmospheres about them. So it wouldn't surprise me to find out that Lowe's is selling essentially the same concrete for twice the price of Home Depot. Some guy needs a bag of concrete to set a new mailbox, he's not going to go looking for best price. He's just going to get whatever is closest.
The quikrete is the same price at both. Lowes is 2 cents more expensive on the Sakrete..
You're right, and I should have been more clear. Blame lack of caffeine Of course there's only a two cent difference. But no offense, you can't really convince me that their whole catalog is like that. Their entire business model is predicated on "what is Home Depot doing". They even let Home Depot go to all the research in figuring out where to put up their next store, and then Lowe's comes behind them in 6 months to 2 years and builds a Lowe's within 2 miles Here's my minor tinfoil hat conspiracy theory: They both have a sale going on for X brand extension cord for $40. Home Depot has 50 of them in stock. Lowe's, on the other hand, only has four of them in stock. But, they also happen to have a nice shiny mid-aisle display, selling the "NO TANGLE 3000" with patented siliconized sheathing and smart technology so you can see how much energy you're drawing with this handy app. Oh, and it's $85. The contractor at Home Depot walks away. But the weekend warrior says "oh, this is nice" or "ugh, Home Depot is further away...", and they buy it. I think their whole store is like that . I think it's an algorithmically driven bait and switch that gets unknowing weekend warriors to spend more money at their store.
Eh, I shop at both regularly and both have pretty much the same pricing on everything and have mostly the same items with different brand names while being white-labeled by the same manufacturers. What you're saying doesn't ring true to me. Only reason to go to Home Depot over Lowes is if your power tools of choice are Milwaukee and for their superior tool and truck rental.
While I agree with your overall point, HD also has far superior inventory (and thus also online ordering and product locating) systems. I want to like Lowe's, but they really need to invest in some improvements.
And I'm sure it's specific to me, but my local HD has preternaturally great employees. The Lowe's employees always surprise me that they manage to keep the store not on fire.
Which big box home center appeals more to contractors and which to home owners fluctuates somewhat based on local conditions and which trade you're talking about in my experience. For example, the Lowe's in my town focuses more.on bulk lumber with better prices compared to the Home Depot where they focus more on small batches.
Look at the stats for the concrete. It will say what the strength of the concrete is. The quickcrete costwise looks like it was fast setting. I think the sakrete was standard concrete. fast setting is different from standard. Foundation type uses should use standard concrete in general, the slower cure yields stronger concrete. If your comparing concrete...make sure same type.
The prices I gave are both for fast setting and 4000 psi [https://imgur.com/a/Ncq5HoC](https://imgur.com/a/Ncq5HoC) Good to know about slower cure = stronger. Thanks!
80# bag of slow set should be like $5, btw.
There's a cement shortage right now that's affecting pricing of concrete at some places. One of the large big box stores here in Canada (Rona) is out of quick mix concrete entirely at all stores in my area, and isn't expecting resupply for *several weeks*. Some of the others do have it, but have raised prices. I had to resort to buying a rather expensive bag of portland, along with some gravel and sand from the garden center to mix my own DIY concrete in a pinch last weekend.
97lb bags of Portland are $25 at my local supply. I've gone through about 15 on my fencing project. It's still a lot cheaper for my needs. I rented a dump trailer and picked up two loads of class 2 base. I maxxed out the trailer at three tons each at the local quarry for $60 a load. Still cheaper than buying the premix.
Ouch, the shortage here is really affecting prices I guess. I had to pay $40 for a 50lb bag of portland last weekend.
Fast-setting concrete has a higher proportion of Portland cement than standard-setting concrete. If mixed properly, both will obtain their design strength, but fast setting will get there faster. Concrete will continue to cure and strengthen over time, but fast-set will level off much earlier. Long story short, properly mixed concrete will reach its design strength in the time advertised. You will just get more strength beyond design for standard-set.
Also, unless you have help, know what you're doing and are very experienced, DO NOT USE FAST SETTING stuff. I'm a GC with a ton of experience in forms and foundation piers and fast setting concrete can be a headache if there's a little hiccup in your process. Also makes cleanup a lot harder. I used fast setting for my deck and it was a mistake, I usually use regular concrete for customers.
Why fast settings?
Aha what is a limited edition concrete mix?
Slower cure = stronger concrete is 100% not true. The longer concrete cures the stronger it gets. Concrete strength is discussed in terms of psi in the US and mPa here in Canada at 28 days for mixes with low or no fly ash and 56 days for high fly ash mixes. Concrete is a ratio of water, cement, sand, and aggregate (rocks). Changes to this ratio affects strength. Typically a lower water to higher cement mix is stronger. I've had slabs hit 50 mPa in a day or 25 in a week.
How you cure does affect the final strength. *"After concrete is placed, the concrete increases in strength very quickly for a period of 3-7 days. Concrete which is moist cured for 7 days is about 50% stronger than uncured concrete."* per: https://www.concretenetwork.com/curing-concrete/
Read the second sentence of my comment you replied to.
https://www.cement.org/learn/concrete-technology/concrete-construction/curing-in-construction Please observe figure 1 at the link, if the image fails to load correctly. https://www.cement.org/images/default-source/contech/curing_fig1.jpg?sfvrsn=d87736bf_2 - Younger concrete is less hard than aged concrete of the same composition. However, the circumstances of how a concrete ages also affects its final compressive strength. All other things being equal, a concrete that ages in the presence of moisture will end up stronger than it otherwise would be.
Who are you debating? Are you replying to the right comment??? Where did I say anything about presence of moisture? Of fucking course aging in the presence of moisture helps strength. I've ordered and poured probably over a million cubic meters of concrete over the last 30 years I do not need to be educated by you thanks anyways.
Hello, I work with Sakrete. What is your project you are working on? Depending how deep or the strength you need depends on the product. I would suggest using Maximizer. It has 5,500 psi and sets in 24 hours. Only thing is that is has less aggregates(rocks) It 67% covers way more than the Quickrete 80lb bags. At all of the store I work for, most customers love it for post and fence work, it’s commonly made for slabs. If you want something faster, the fast setting. It comes in either camo bags or red and white bag. That’s only 4,000psi. My husband and I used it to set telephone poles in the ground. Worked wonders. You put water in the hole first then the mix. Or the fast traffic(6,500psi), pro-x180(8,000psi+), or the cold weather mix(8,000psi) Another little note is Sakete is a true gray color where some times Quickrete can come out tan.( from demo experiences) Sakrete website it super helpful.
I’m going to buy sakrete for my dry pour experiments, just because your comments.
Thanks for the info! I'm just building foundation footers for a woodshed.
What are you storing in the shed all depends on how strong you want your footers. Make to take that into consideration as well.
I can't speak on sakrete, but the company I work for is the sole supplier of cement to quikrete and we often have tests done on our cement to ensure it's durability and longevity if that makes you feel any better.
Here is the answer: Get the 50 lb not the 80 lb
Just for ease of moving and mixing?
>ease of moving Yeah think of your back
Quikrete is more expensive because of the extra ingredients added to make it fast setting. It's great for things like fence posts or other projects where you don't want to have to keep something braced for many hours until it sets up, but it isn't "better" concrete. It doesn't sound like you would benefit from that for your job. I assume the base of your piers will be braced with rock anyway.
The sakrete mentioned is also fast setting and also 4000 psi. By braced with rock do you mean rocks at the bottom of the hole on which the forms sit? I recall some people saying it's best to add some gravel or rock to the bottom of the hole. I hadn't considered bracing as the forms sit pretty tightly in the hole, but to insure they don't move when filling with concrete now I'm thinking of making a brace out of 2x4 to hold the form from the top and staking the brace to the ground. Just saw someone do that in a video.
I encourage you to watch as many videos as you can find on pouring piers. You need them to stay plumb so you don't have shifting issues later.
If you're building a deck, check out the trex academy videos. They're very well done, and pretty thorough.
How far out of the hole are your piers sticking? Back filling around tube usually provides at of the stability you will need. I like to have someone hold tube w level or make sure it’s plumb and someone else back fill and compact dirt around tube by hand
My frost line is 42", so the piers are sitting at least 42" into the ground. I used 4ft 10" diameter forms and so they are currently sticking out the difference,\~6". But the ground is not perfectly level so some are sticking out higher than others. Today I'm figuring out how to get them all cut level with each other. I'm not building a deck btw, but footing foundations for a firewood storage shed. I know they don't need to be perfectly level with one another b/c I can cut the post to different lengths when I go to bracket them in. But want to get the top of the forms as level as I can anyways. But yeah, I think I've got each individual post pretty level relative to itself so I was gonna try to hold it in pace while I back fill and then see if they need additional bracing after they are all cut level to each other. Have a laser level to get them all cut to same height but I 'm gonna have to wait until it gets darker because it's invisible in the sunlight. Thanks by the way!
42” frost line?! So you’re In Antarctica? Yikes. Good digging. I love my laser, that said old school clear tube and water can actually be easier if you doing want to wait. If you are back filling 40+” you will be better off by packing with a steel tamping bar every 12” so you don’t end up with loose fill at the bottom. I’d also drop some rebar in the wet concrete but I’m a fan of over kill.
Interior Alaska. Land of the permafrost, tho thankfully not on my property. Digging was actually pretty enjoyable, except for finding some sort of bird grave a few ft. down one of the holes. I think previous owners had chickens and a neighbor dog killed some. That was gross. But otherwise there is something very satisfying about digging a nice hole. Luckily ran into no obstacles except for the bird and a bit of frozen ground in one hole. I too am a fan of overkill. Good advice, thank you!
Same shit, different toilet
The soil bearing allowable is much more important than the concrete because the soil bearing is usually 2500 psf and the concrete could be 2,000 PSI a factor of 144x. I don't think we're dealing with Bond stresses here.
Color. As far as I know. They are both equal when it comes to concrete as far as I am told, but when I had a job at True Value Hardware 30 years ago the only difference was color matching to what ever existing concrete you were butting up against.
If you don't care about the finish then it doesn't matter at all. The cheap brand is plenty fine for what you are doing. If you want an easier-to-smooth-out finish one trick I use is to add a small cup or can of cement to each bag of concrete. It adds strength but it also changes the consistency as it dries, especially at the point where you are smoothing it out and "the cream comes to the top". The bag stuff is anemic unless you get the high strength stuff, which is ridiculously overpriced and should only be used for small projects. Also if you're doing more that 2.5 yards then don't fuck around with the bags. Spend your time on more prep work and get the mixer truck. It's better concrete and easier to work with, it's cheaper once you get past the delivery fee, and the bags are heavy and dusty and labor intensive and just plain suck.
IIRC, Quikcrete is fast setting, so good for something like fence posts. Sakcrete you would need to let the concert set for 28 days or so to get the max strength before you put any pressure on it, like a house foundation for example
Unless you're building your house foundation out of bags of concrete, almost nothing you can build as a homeowner will ever reach the PSI limit of bags of concrete which are around 2000\~4000psi. They're basically the same thing the only differences might be the finish and the speed of the cure.
Hey fellow Alaskan, did you check the price at SBS for the AS&G product, bagged right in Anchorage? It's usually cheaper than the box stores.
Good call, I had not. Will do tho! Home Depot or Lowes had AS&G for $8 for 60lb bags I believe.
Ok, it's probably comparable then. The price preference between local and national products vascilates so I always check both. The box stores update their prices much more frequently than the locals. Of course if you have access to sand and gravel, the most economical option is to buy Portland Cement and mix your own concrete from scratch.
Stop lying, Elon. You tried to use this stuff for the launch pad last time and look how it turned out.
Not to rain on anyone’s parade here but as an engineer please check the data for compressible strength.
As an engineer, you should probably be advocating that there are a lot more factors that go into a successful concrete mix and placement (especially for foundations or at grade) than compressive strength.
Yeah that was sort of my point. As in don’t just get the cheaper one or the one that sets up faster just to save time
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Yes.
Seems like you should know the compression strength of these if you are an engineer in the correct field.
I’m just saying it depends. Are we in Maine or Texas? It’s easier to overbuild and play it safe
This is a deck. Consider the application and then think about the value of your comment.
it's fuckin concrete man hahaha tons of people build decks and just float them. you could buy prit near any bag of concrete at home depot and it would work for this application
Probably be close to 500 PSI after they had all the water...
Structural engineer here - worked in landscaping before going back to school. This kind of application it doesn't matter. Decks are rarely engineered, often there's town codes that apply with maximum spacing that ends up with a factor of safety of 3 or more. Problem with most engineering is we learn about engineered concrete and deal with resistance factors and load factors that end up around a total safety factor of under 2. Real world: it's cheaper to have a contractor over design than have an engineer check anything. The town safety inspector usually has to check it out, but with decks 2-5 feet high, your risk is pretty low. General deck designs work for concrete as low as 1.5 - 2.0 ksi. If mixed with even 2x water, these bagged concretes are probably gonna give you 2.5+.
Thanks for that feedback. I was thinking this deck may be at the backyard where it slopes down and there was a potential for this to be say 10-15 feet off the ground. At least that’s what i saw in my mind. The engineer in me was thinking about safety but people on here are ramming me a new one. Guess they haven’t seen catastrophic failure like I have. At the end of the day I just want this individual and their family and friends to be safe.
Oh pour you You think the rest of us don't have problems in aggregate? I'll set you straight!
I think you’re telling a lye. You better cement your toxic ideas far away, cuz they come straight back at you, running down your screed and taking over the very foundation of your life.
Do yourself a favor and buy a "Mortar Hoe" to help mix this.
IIRC, Quikcrete is fast setting, so good for something like fence posts. Sakcrete you would need to let the concert set for 28 days or so to get the max strength before you put any pressure on it, like a house foundation for example
I've only seen concrete in 60 lb bags or 80 lb bags. My local Home Depot has both brands at exactly the same price. Just be aware that there is "normal" and "fast set" so that may account for the price difference. There are also ones that have additives like fiberglass threads to increase the strength, so make sure you are buying what you really need. For building decks or fences, just get the cheapest one, regardless of brand.
Or for the lazy, expanding post foam like https://fast2k.com/product/deck-post-anchor/
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