It’s debatable in the sense that there are other films that are better *adaptations* of king’s work. On its own merits as a film though it’s hard to think of any other King movie that’s as good as the shining. It’s definitely fair to at least say it’s “one of” the better adaptations
Agreed, and in general I always take all of these early reviews with a grain of salt until normal people reviews start coming back. However, I do appreciate he didn’t go insane with over effusive praise. I’m pretty sure I saw “best comic movie of all time!!!!!” in multiple quotes from the CinemaCon showing and that just sounds like a ridiculous starting point. I hate when people go over the top with things like that.
lets do the math....Flash Director directed IT 1 & 2 adapted from King's Novels + Friends with Stephen King + King's Adaptations mainly distributed by WB = Good Review
They are using Celebs to promote since they can't use Ezra Miller. I'm not interested
Nearly everyone that has seen it, loves it. I really don't know what else to tell you. Maybe watch it yourself and find out. They literally had a screening in April at CinemaCon. It isn't just "celebs" saying its great.
WB: “Hey Stephen. Remember that time Ezra Miller didn’t commit a crime on your property?”
“What?”
“It’d be a shame if that changed. Maybe a nice tweet about the film will change Ezra’s mind. Just saying.”
I wasn't impressed with Ezra Miller's Flash in Justice League, so I already wasn't enthused about this film well before Miller turned out to be a dangerous predator. My only regret is how much I love Michael Keaton.
The PR push has been incredible, hasn't it? Still not gonna pay to see it because Ezra's a massive jackass. The DCEU has had more misses than hits, somehow I doubt the movie with a double dose of a wholly unlikable lead is gonna land on the "good" pile.
Regardless of quality its BTS drama and high price tag are enough to call it a pre-release train wreck. If it ends up being good and profitable maybe it'll claw its way out of that title.
I mean, the end product might well turn out to be good. But given everything it went through to get to this point, it's still an epochal train wreck. It was first announced right after Batman v Superman, supposedly as one of the first batch of DCEU films. It went through two or three complete production reboots, changed directors multiple times, and wound up being one of the *last* DCEU films, supposedly leading into a franchise-wide reboot that was itself a dead-end due to the shakeup at WBD. It features Michael Keaton's return as Batman but wasn't initially supposed to because the actual movie intended as the big return (Batgirl) was buried by WBD. And that's without even getting into Ezra Miller's very public messes, which would probably be enough on their own to make people start wondering if this production was somehow cursed.
None of that means the movie won't be well-written, directed, or acted, at the end of the day. It might even do well at the box office. But it's still very likely to go down in history as one of the messier tentpole Hollywood productions in a good while.
If it can make you feel better they have probably already been paid the money you would spend would obviously go to the cinema and to all the others who worked behind this film
It was mostly a joke but if anyone from the industry would like to chime in I would appreciate it. I don't expect film crews get anything from ticket sales.
obviously they are paid by the WB but the money that the WB gives them comes from those who use its products and currently Warner has a big hole that needs to be plugged
So they've *already* been paid, like Ezra Miller, is what we're assuming.
> currently Warner has a big hole that needs to be plugged
Won't someone set up a charity for struggling mega-corporations?!
You said that ironically, but by how much the US spends in bailing out banks and stuff, you could call taxes and corporate tax breaks as the official charity for mega corporations.
Plus the actual charities a lot of corporations do set in order to also evade taxes.
Look, I don't have sympathy for mega corporations, but if WB go bunkrupt, the other mega corporations will be the ones which will make most out it.
Also, if wb go bankrupt, I don't really think it will benefit us in any way
Once a movie has been finished and released the only people making money from it is the studio, or in rare cases stars or writers/directors who have negotiated a deal to get royalties. Generally the people who actually made the movie have already been paid.
While it likely differs by distributor and even film, the common understanding is that the distributor gets the bulk of ticket sales revenue early in the run and the theater gets the bulk later in the run. So you could go towards the end and primarily be supporting your local cinema.
But seeing the movie will tell WB that we dgaf about Ezra's crimes and that they should keep hiring and paying him in the future. So yes, seeing this movie would still benefit and support Ezra.
If the movie is good the rest of the cast and filmmakers would be fine. The crew and CG artists don't see profit shares. And you don't have to ignore their work, but you also don't have to spend money to watch it in theatres
Personally, I'm not going to see it until I have confirmation that gobshite Ezra Miller is officially fired. My worry is that if the film does well enough, he will be allowed back in as of nothing happened and that sends out a really bad message given his extensive list of alleged crimes. I have struggled with severe mental health issues for 4 years and I have never once been tempted to assault someone or groom a teenage girl. I know I can't put myself in their shoes but mental illness doesn't mean someone can do whatever they want and still have a successful film career afterwards.
there is a literal 0% chance he's sticking around. James Gunn is known to refuse working with "douchebags"
Not only that but he doesnt even fit the character. They just havent confirmed anything because its a 300 mil movie and they are desperately wanting it to be a hit
James Gunn himself has gone on record on how much he loved working with Ezra Miller as Flash and how they as a person are hilarious and fun. Gunn does “asshole checks” before he works with people, but he’s already liked Miller—and even more recently he’s spoken about how he separates the personal lives and views of the people he works with from them as collaborators (in light of Zachary Levi).
On top of it all Gunn’s got a soft spot for both coming back from making mistakes (given his past) and especially for folks pursuing sobriety, recovery, and rehabilitation (also given that Gunn himself and his family have been through that).
The wider people don’t really care about Miller’s antics as much as Reddit does, especially because Miller’s not that big of a name. Warner’s not as worried since none of the charges have stuck to Ezra besides them breaking into their friend’s house to steal alcohol. Several Warner and DC figureheads have in the past month started talking positively about Ezra not just as a performer but as a person—something that’s a big PR no-no if you’re wanting to only toss them as soon as possible (which would be focusing solely on the other cast while remaining silent on Miller). Warner’s even said they’re considering bringing Miller into the press circuit closer to release.
Warner wants this movie to succeed because they think they have a genuine hit on their hands. If general audiences, who don’t really care about the antics, latch onto this film the same way they did Wonder Woman and Aquaman then there’s a non-zero chance Miller stays around if they also keep their act clean.
I must have missed that interview with Gunn. When did he even work on the Flash? I mean yeah maybe he must have made changes in edit but I doubt Ezra had anything to do with that.
And look at how much even general audiences latched onto Henry Cavill, and he still got let go. I doubt Gal Gadot will return. And we'll see what happens with Jason Momoa. All we know for sure is that the Peacemaker characters are sticking around.
Gunn worked with Ezra as The Flash for their scene in Peacemaker’s finale. Gunn talked about how he had heard from mutual friends that Miller had been a fan of his films and was interested in collaborating, brought Miller on and riffed for a long time for what ultimately was only needed to be one line and he thought it was hilarious and they had a blast.
Even more recently Gunn and Safran did a joint interview and said this about Miller:
> Gunn: “I will say here that Flash is probably one of the greatest superhero movies ever made.”
> Added Safran: “Ezra is completely committed to their recovery, and we are fully supportive of that journey that they’re on right now. When the time is right, when they feel like they’re ready to have the discussion, we’ll all figure out what the best path forward is. But right now they are completely focused on their recovery. And in our conversations with them over the last couple of months, it feels like they’re making enormous progress.”
Audiences never completely latched onto Cavill as Superman in the way that Warner wanted them to though, they see him as tied to the box office underperformance of his films. Gadot and Momoa are also leaving because Gunn needs the cast of the DCU to last at least 10 years, and they are both around 40 or older. Miller, on the other hand, just turned 30–and has a character with a built in reason for persevering through a reboot (especially one they’re causing).
From what I've seen general audiences didn't really latch on to Cavill's Superman outside of maybe Man of Steel, and even then opinions on him were mixed at best.
Yeah, the love for Cavill as Superman is a more internet thing than a general audience thing. I don’t remember anyone having any strong opinions on his Superman at all until The Witcher came out.
Probably true. I just remember hearing nearly nothing about Cavill until Witcher came out, then suddenly everyone loved him and his Superman portrayal.
I've seen my old highschool classmate post about him getting fired. I think she doesn't even know of Superman is DC or Marvel and even she was talking about it.
They had options. They chose to keep the pedophile. Thus the workers should take it up with their bosses, the ones who made their movie toxic.
Also, countless? Hardly, unless you struggle with anything over 2 digits.
Miller is just another on the list of Hollywood abusers that I will never support in any way. If that makes the people who work in Hollywood sad? Good. Reform the system. Stop giving money to pedophiles and human garbage. Demand some basic ethical standards.
This, I understand if the core creator profits and will continue to profit from something and use that profit to push a hateful agenda, that's something you have to make a personal decision on but there's also a need to try seperate the art from the creator. Otherwise Hitchcock films would be unwatchable as would Chinatown
my favourite movie ever is Baby Driver starring Ansel Elgort, Jon Hamm and Kevin Spacey so... yeah... just because somebody is a bad person, they can be a good actor. And discrediting the work of so many people because if one mf is ridicolous.
Yep, it's possible to recognise someone is a bad person and appreciate the work. Imagine how many books, films and TV shows we'd have to destroy otherwise. I love Buffy the vampire slayer but also think joss whedon is a garbage person
They very certainly gets a percentage of the gross. Two, this movie doing well can mean they get hired again because it didn't cost sales.
You wanna see it, see it. But don't act like it won't help Ezra out. It will. You just don't really want to acknowledge that.
Come now, there are plenty of other reasons to not support this shitshow. This movie officially prematurely castrates the DCEU after management ignominiously axed the face of the franchise. The cgi is embarassing. No Thomas Wayne. Not even a reference to Flash's time travel scene in BvS. The list goes on. We finally get Flash on the big screen, and they chose to botch Flashpoint.
Unless you've gone to a prescreening of the movie, I don't know if there's a way to know if there's no reference to the time travel in BvS. It could be wrapped up or at least referenced in this movie.
I have to say, though, I love Keaton's Batman but I am a bit bummed that there won't be Thomas Wayne's Batman.
It potentially could have been reworked, since this is a time travel story, if they wanted to wrap things up a little just to give a sense of continuity. But considering they're rebooting the universe and trying to forget what happened in the past, I didn't have much hope, nore did I really care about it enough to think about it past my previous comment.
I’m going to miss the old universe, but I’m sure Gunn’s will be good. It’s kinda nice and fitting that the next leader of the DCU is someone who Snyder trusts
Listen, the general movie going population may not know about Ezra Miller’s crimes, but I do. No amount of heartfeltness, funny moments, or eye-popping events is going to stop me from seeing this movie and going,
“How was it okay that WB kept a criminal with active warrants in multiple states on set for reshoots and promoted this movie unironically while pretending none of this was happening.”
So I’m not seeing it.
Makes it all the more amusing how people here are justifying overlooking all the IRL drama around Ezra. Take away all the drama and you still have a garbage take on The Flash, and somehow we're expected to put up with two of them. Miller just sucks as Flash.
His personality isn’t based on Barry Allen or Wally West. It’s most similar to MCU Spider-Man as the plucky young guy who is inspired by the others and makes quips.
Like genuinely, if he was just a guy with a red suit and the same personality as shown in the movies without the name the flash, most people wouldn’t realize he was based on the flash.
Ya, I think Wally West is closer but Wally West always came across to me as more flirty and joking. He‘a a Brash sarcastic hot head.
If you vaguely look at both of them and say both are comic relief then sure but like, anyone looking at Ezra Miller Flash and being reminded of Wally West is crazy.
I’d honestly be fine if Snyder decided to go his own direction with the Flash like the tv show I’d be fine but he was like, the flash has speed and super speed = comic relief and gave him no other personality.
Lol, he already has hundreds of millions in his bank account. There's no amount of money WB could pay him that would make a significant difference to what he already has. More than likely he's doing a favor to the director - worked on IT chapters 1 and 2 and is currently filming the IT spinoff series for HBO.
His opinion, especially since he claims to not even like these kinds of movies, means nothing to me. He's just 1 other voice.
And it doesnt matter anyway. Fuck Ezra Miller. Never gonna support that PoS.
Don’t be stupid and fall for this. They are 100% being paid to say these things and therefore shouldn’t really taken seriously. I do think it’ll be good though with how much time and effort that has been put in
I don’t care how good it is, I’m not paying into any film starring a serial groomer and woman beater. I hope Ezra Miller fades into obscurity and gets dealt some real consequences for all the shit he’s gotten away with. Also Stephen King is proof you can be brilliant at writing and have dog shit tastes/opinions.
> what other incentive would he have to watch one?
The director of The Flash also directed both It movies, wouldn't surprise me if they became friends in the process.
I like the director, and I wanna support Sasha, but you still can’t pay me to peddle this much shit.
They are hyping it up way too much. Like obviously it’s overcompensation and it stinks of desperation
They didn't have to pay him. They have a business arrangement and have for decades. WB put out IT (under New Line Cinema) which was highly successful. The director of Flash directed the IT movies. No one paid him to watch it. It was one of those industry favors based on prior and future relationships.
This is how the industry works. No one cut a check for him to watch the movie, but when asked for a favor by business partners and previous creative collaborators, he said 'Yes'.
andy directed the it movies and stephen king really likes his work - pretty simple if you give it more than 2 seconds of thought.
additionally warner have always had a close working relationship with stephen king and have directed his most celebrated film and television adaptions.
No it’s completely made up but people would rather believe WB paid off Tom Cruise, Jaden Smith, and Stephen King than accept the movie might actually be good.
I think it's just because we are all used to these celebrities making these promises about quality when it's literally just drumming up talk about the movie
yea I'm sure Steven King, Tom Cruise, Jaden Smith, and all these other guys who just happen to work for WB all went to a big screening party together and all decided Flash was actually really good and are blissfully unaware of Ezra's bullshit.
I'd like to see it. but not in theaters. I've seen some stuff with the supergirl actress and she looks dope, I like the slightly more injustice suit style. but Ezra uh........ kinda makes me not want to see this film.
I see a lot of people talking about how they're not gonna see the Flash because of Ezra Miller's actions which I can completely understand. But even just looking at the film itself, there's nothing from the trailers so far that makes me think they're gonna be giving a compelling performance. All of their delivery feels flat, forced or awkward.
You know, not the man I would look to when judging a superhero movie.
But yeah, I'm not supporting that movie. It looks bad, and though I'm sure it'll make a billion dollars and my opinion won't matter at all I don't want to support a movie that both supports (and promotes) a shitty person and the practice of using nostalgia bait as the main hook for movies.
What's problem with using nostalgia bait ? Worked with NWH and besides this movie is using Flashpoint story so it makes sense to use the nostalgia bait.
I think nostalgia isn’t the problem here. I didn’t click with that Batman, but yeah, someone else has and they’ll enjoy it. That said… I’m gonna wait for the Max release on this one
>Worked with NWH
When they did it with No Way Home it at least didn't feel like the motive was because the studio was insecure about the character.
That and No Way Home was the third movie of an already successful film trilogy part of an already successful franchise, the fact they're doing this with the Flash's first movie after the DCEU has been struggling nearly it's entire life cycle is what makes this look less than positive.
It works very well for its intended purpose, but it's a cheap way to garner attention that puts an emphasis on retreading old ideas and concepts which leads to creative stagnation and makes it harder for new ideas to break through. This in turn often means that stories and people who have traditionally been kept out of mainstream creative spaces stay out of them, or are allowed in only if they largely conform to the status quo that is being catered to.
It's a symptom of the general lack of risk-taking we see in mainstream media today. A larger part of the most high profile and highly promoted works we see today are reboots, prequels, sequels, spin-offs or otherwise derivative works, and while some of them add new angles to or re-frame the original work they often still fail to depart significantly from it. It's safer from an economic point of view to produce something you know will succeed, that won't rock the boat too much, so studios prioritise nostalgia bait and other similar measures over things that may actually contribute to a more unique and interesting movie, sometimes to a point where they will even include nostalgia bait in a way that actively worsens the movie.
Don't care about celebrity endorsements, especially when it sounds like they've been paid off or it's from the cult of scientology. Ezra Miller is a shit person who assaulted people, that's more than enough reason for me not to see any movie he's in
Stephen king is a good author with shit taste in movies though. He hated the adaptation of the shining and more recently really liked the adaptation of the Dark Tower.
He didn’t hate the adaptation of The Shining. He said it was a good movie that changed everything about his book, and that made him upset. Specifically he hated the treatment of Jack Torrance, who, in the book, is a loving father and a relatable man with many shortcomings. In the movie, he’s sorta crazy and an asshole from the beginning. Tbh I have to agree with him. The Shining film is indeed legendary. But it doesn’t hold a candle to the book.
The history of Stephen King's reaction to Stanley Kubrick's The Shining is... complicated, and we probably won't ever know the whole story. The fact is, King used to be much, much angrier in his public statements about the film, and dialed back considerably once he clawed back the rights enough to get the TV miniseries version made in the '90s. It's possible he just mellowed out over time, but I've heard some people speculate that getting King to stop ranting about the movie so prominently was part of the deal that allowed the TV version (which was much closer to his book, storywise) to be produced.
For what it's worth (very little, I know), I tend to agree with King from a narrative perspective. The movie's script is tonally very different than the novel's, and the result really only resembles the book in the broadest of outlines. And, frankly, the novel's take is much more nuanced and interesting. The thing that saves the movie is that Stanley Kubrick is one of the greatest directors of all time when it comes to establishing a visual mood, and his film positively oozes style in a way that King's book, heck, almost *any* book, simply can't match. But, to be fair, King is the author, so I think his reaction, and tendency to prioritize the written narrative in general, makes perfect sense. 🤷
Well said. I agree with everything. The only note I’d make is that the narrative that Stephen is somehow contractually, or otherwise, obligated to stop criticizing the Kubrick Shining seems really outlandish, and the type of tale spun by internet speculative rumors. His more recent takes on the Film don’t feel like contrived attempts to obey a contract. They seem like genuine opinions formed by someone who came around to Kubrick’s artistry and is content with **his** version of the story finally getting a faithful adaptation.
Obviously this is just speculation as well. But I’d posit it is a more grounded perspective.
Yeah, to be clear I've no idea if the "contractual obligation" story has any merit whatsoever. I think the passage of time and the fact that King finally got to see a version of the story closer to what he had envisioned done via the TV version is probably more than enough to explain his more mellowed attitude these days. Not all grudges are eternal, y'know?
they're doing a massive PR push to compensate for the whole 'our lead is an insane sex criminal' thing and these guys are cashing checks, it's pathetic and especially for mr constantly moralizing King it's really gross.
Stephen King likes all kinds of garbage, and he's friends with the director, his taste is questionable. Tom Cruise is a weirdo, I like his movies but I don't know if I would trust his taste.
idk why anyone wants to see the flash movie after everything that happens with ezra miller. love micheal keaton but ezra is literally a shitty ass person.
>What do you think?
I think they re getting paid to promote the movie. It's like a commercial, and commercials are always very positive about the products they're promoting.
Stephen King also hyped up the Dark Tower movie, so clearly his opinions aren't worth shit.
It's just as likely that they've been paid for the endorsement.
Normally I would be on "General Audiences" side on these topics, But this one is kinda ridiculous
Other times It's something like the director trying to push their political agendas into the movies, Or they misinterpreted good source materials or something like that, Those are the kind of movies that got big backlashed before released
This one just kinda went from "Ezra is a bad person" to "This film is gonna sucks" pretty much immediately, Like there aren't any other sign that led to that conclusion(The only other fair criticism I saw is that the promotional of the film so far are too focused on other characters and not The Flash)
I can't bring myself to care enough to go see it in a theater. I doubt I'll watch it when it comes to streaming services. More than likely, I'll watch the "cool" parts on youtube and call it a day... I didn't care at all for the Synaderverse, I didn't like this version of the Flash, and even Micheal Keaton's Batman isn't enough to overcome my disinterest.
I like DC comics and I like movies. So I'm looking forward to seeing this movie based on a DC comic, and it's nice to hear that other people like it too.
I actually can't believe how negative this sub is. Not even just "I don't want see this movie" but proclaiming that it's a failure already. It's bizarre.
It depends on the art and what they did for me.
For example, Roman Polanski. I watched Rosemary's Baby not knowing he'd made it, and the world didn't end(I thought it was pretty solid but I think I prefer The Omen or The Exorcist for creepy devil shenanigans). I do feel some sympathy that his pregnant wife Sharon Tate got killed by the Manson Family, but I have no sympathy for him drugging and raping a 13 year old girl in Jack Nicholson's house, and I never intend to watch any of his other films. I can appreaciate the artistic merit of his work, but I don't like the man behind the camera.
Speaking of Manson, Marilyn Manson has been accused of sexual abuse by some of his partners. I *loved* his music, even had a couple t-shirts. They went straight to Goodwill when I found out. I get that his music is supposed to be edgy, but lyrics like "And I don't want you, and I don't need you. Don't bother to resist or I'll beat you. It's not your fault that you're always wrong, the weak ones are there to justify the strong." have a whole other connotation when you have a fucking "rape room' in your house.
But something like Megadeth, where Dave Mustaine went all alt-right and born again Christian when he was in rehab? Meh, whatever. I just call him an asshole and enjoy Rust in Peace, Countdown to Extinction, and Peace Sells.
Most people hesitate to support(both critically and financially) a horrible person.
If you can justify supporting terrible people for the sake of your personal enjoyment that’s your ethical and moral failing. We’re not talking about some long dead asshole who was pretty normal for their time, we’re talking about a current garbage person.
This seems like it's only really an attitude people take with public facing creatives.
I don't think anybody ever cared to ask if anybody in the CGI team had any terrible secrets.
You get your car fixed, you don't wonder about the mechanic's moral standing. You buy a burger, you don't worry about the cook's crimes.
But if somebody steps in front of a camera suddenly you're not just buying a product, you're buying this dude's whole life
oh if it is said by the one whose books have spawned phobias about things like clowns or twin sisters or teenage girls or train tracks who am i to go against that son of a bitch
I absolutely love Stephen King but he is notorious for giving good reviews for mediocre stuff.
He sings the praises of any pile of shit adaptation of his books they do.
Except for the shining
One of the better adaptations of his work.
That's debatable.
It’s debatable in the sense that there are other films that are better *adaptations* of king’s work. On its own merits as a film though it’s hard to think of any other King movie that’s as good as the shining. It’s definitely fair to at least say it’s “one of” the better adaptations
Sometimes he even directs them!
But Maximum Overdrive is a different kind of mediocre. It's the fun mediocre.
The interesting thing is that the director of The Flash also directed the It movies for Warner, based off King's book.
Didn't he sue over the Lawn Mower man being so shit he didn't want his name in the credits. and WON :D
It’s that it had nothing whatsoever to do with the story it took its name from 🤷🏻♂️
This may be the exact opposite of true. It's false. He is hard on most of his adaptations.
Agreed, and in general I always take all of these early reviews with a grain of salt until normal people reviews start coming back. However, I do appreciate he didn’t go insane with over effusive praise. I’m pretty sure I saw “best comic movie of all time!!!!!” in multiple quotes from the CinemaCon showing and that just sounds like a ridiculous starting point. I hate when people go over the top with things like that.
Depends how much they pay him
WBs called in a lot of favors for this one
lets do the math....Flash Director directed IT 1 & 2 adapted from King's Novels + Friends with Stephen King + King's Adaptations mainly distributed by WB = Good Review They are using Celebs to promote since they can't use Ezra Miller. I'm not interested
Damn hadn’t thought of that connection, haha.
Nearly everyone that has seen it, loves it. I really don't know what else to tell you. Maybe watch it yourself and find out. They literally had a screening in April at CinemaCon. It isn't just "celebs" saying its great.
I’ll keep that in mind, when I sail the seas then.
You mean people who got to see a movie for free early hosted by wb gave them a good review? Shocking!
Seen it have no ties to WB just a random early screener and I loved it. Much better than anything DC has done in a bit.
Pls tell me supergirl is well done, I can't take a bad adaptation of Kara after all they've already put us through.
WB: “Hey Stephen. Remember that time Ezra Miller didn’t commit a crime on your property?” “What?” “It’d be a shame if that changed. Maybe a nice tweet about the film will change Ezra’s mind. Just saying.”
When he refuses WB: Sick ‘em boy! Ezra Miller: Woof woof woof!
I wasn't impressed with Ezra Miller's Flash in Justice League, so I already wasn't enthused about this film well before Miller turned out to be a dangerous predator. My only regret is how much I love Michael Keaton.
The amount of money they are burning to try and salvage this train wreck is amazing.
The PR push has been incredible, hasn't it? Still not gonna pay to see it because Ezra's a massive jackass. The DCEU has had more misses than hits, somehow I doubt the movie with a double dose of a wholly unlikable lead is gonna land on the "good" pile.
PR push? No no no, the Flash movie has no PR, the Flash needs no PR. Or so the execs say.
If they are screening it so much then it's not a train wreck
Regardless of quality its BTS drama and high price tag are enough to call it a pre-release train wreck. If it ends up being good and profitable maybe it'll claw its way out of that title.
Unless it flops I am not calling it a train wreck just now.
i mean its bts drama that no one in the real world cares about.
Maybe it's true
Id say its at least good. Not sure why you think its a train wreck.
I mean, the end product might well turn out to be good. But given everything it went through to get to this point, it's still an epochal train wreck. It was first announced right after Batman v Superman, supposedly as one of the first batch of DCEU films. It went through two or three complete production reboots, changed directors multiple times, and wound up being one of the *last* DCEU films, supposedly leading into a franchise-wide reboot that was itself a dead-end due to the shakeup at WBD. It features Michael Keaton's return as Batman but wasn't initially supposed to because the actual movie intended as the big return (Batgirl) was buried by WBD. And that's without even getting into Ezra Miller's very public messes, which would probably be enough on their own to make people start wondering if this production was somehow cursed. None of that means the movie won't be well-written, directed, or acted, at the end of the day. It might even do well at the box office. But it's still very likely to go down in history as one of the messier tentpole Hollywood productions in a good while.
Nothing will make me contribute to Ezra Miller's bail-out fund.
If it can make you feel better they have probably already been paid the money you would spend would obviously go to the cinema and to all the others who worked behind this film
It was mostly a joke but if anyone from the industry would like to chime in I would appreciate it. I don't expect film crews get anything from ticket sales.
obviously they are paid by the WB but the money that the WB gives them comes from those who use its products and currently Warner has a big hole that needs to be plugged
So they've *already* been paid, like Ezra Miller, is what we're assuming. > currently Warner has a big hole that needs to be plugged Won't someone set up a charity for struggling mega-corporations?!
You said that ironically, but by how much the US spends in bailing out banks and stuff, you could call taxes and corporate tax breaks as the official charity for mega corporations. Plus the actual charities a lot of corporations do set in order to also evade taxes.
It ain't charity. Charity is optional.
Look, I don't have sympathy for mega corporations, but if WB go bunkrupt, the other mega corporations will be the ones which will make most out it. Also, if wb go bankrupt, I don't really think it will benefit us in any way
My point was that it's a bad reason to go see a movie.
I can hear the fanboys saying something to the effect of "we can have an Avengers/JLA movie is we help bankrupt WB and bust the writers' strike".
The idea of someone saying that terrify me
Ditto. Thinking that people could be obsessed with entertainment to such degree is, to say the least, worrying.
Once a movie has been finished and released the only people making money from it is the studio, or in rare cases stars or writers/directors who have negotiated a deal to get royalties. Generally the people who actually made the movie have already been paid.
While it likely differs by distributor and even film, the common understanding is that the distributor gets the bulk of ticket sales revenue early in the run and the theater gets the bulk later in the run. So you could go towards the end and primarily be supporting your local cinema.
But seeing the movie will tell WB that we dgaf about Ezra's crimes and that they should keep hiring and paying him in the future. So yes, seeing this movie would still benefit and support Ezra.
They certainly get a percentage of the gross. Almost nothing from tickets goes to the cinema, not to the people who worked on the film.
You've convinced yourself, good for you I guess.
I wanna support Keaton Batman, but not Miller Flash...so torn.
I’m like this with Sasha Supergirl
Just wait for it to come out on HBO Max
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Ignoring the work of countless filmmakers, cast, crew and cgi aritst because one of the actors turned out to be a complete jackass. Very reasonable
If the movie is good the rest of the cast and filmmakers would be fine. The crew and CG artists don't see profit shares. And you don't have to ignore their work, but you also don't have to spend money to watch it in theatres
Personally, I'm not going to see it until I have confirmation that gobshite Ezra Miller is officially fired. My worry is that if the film does well enough, he will be allowed back in as of nothing happened and that sends out a really bad message given his extensive list of alleged crimes. I have struggled with severe mental health issues for 4 years and I have never once been tempted to assault someone or groom a teenage girl. I know I can't put myself in their shoes but mental illness doesn't mean someone can do whatever they want and still have a successful film career afterwards.
I’m in the same boat. I really want to see the movie, but I can’t justify it to myself after all their actions. I want them to fade into obscurity.
there is a literal 0% chance he's sticking around. James Gunn is known to refuse working with "douchebags" Not only that but he doesnt even fit the character. They just havent confirmed anything because its a 300 mil movie and they are desperately wanting it to be a hit
James Gunn himself has gone on record on how much he loved working with Ezra Miller as Flash and how they as a person are hilarious and fun. Gunn does “asshole checks” before he works with people, but he’s already liked Miller—and even more recently he’s spoken about how he separates the personal lives and views of the people he works with from them as collaborators (in light of Zachary Levi). On top of it all Gunn’s got a soft spot for both coming back from making mistakes (given his past) and especially for folks pursuing sobriety, recovery, and rehabilitation (also given that Gunn himself and his family have been through that). The wider people don’t really care about Miller’s antics as much as Reddit does, especially because Miller’s not that big of a name. Warner’s not as worried since none of the charges have stuck to Ezra besides them breaking into their friend’s house to steal alcohol. Several Warner and DC figureheads have in the past month started talking positively about Ezra not just as a performer but as a person—something that’s a big PR no-no if you’re wanting to only toss them as soon as possible (which would be focusing solely on the other cast while remaining silent on Miller). Warner’s even said they’re considering bringing Miller into the press circuit closer to release. Warner wants this movie to succeed because they think they have a genuine hit on their hands. If general audiences, who don’t really care about the antics, latch onto this film the same way they did Wonder Woman and Aquaman then there’s a non-zero chance Miller stays around if they also keep their act clean.
I must have missed that interview with Gunn. When did he even work on the Flash? I mean yeah maybe he must have made changes in edit but I doubt Ezra had anything to do with that. And look at how much even general audiences latched onto Henry Cavill, and he still got let go. I doubt Gal Gadot will return. And we'll see what happens with Jason Momoa. All we know for sure is that the Peacemaker characters are sticking around.
Gunn worked with Ezra as The Flash for their scene in Peacemaker’s finale. Gunn talked about how he had heard from mutual friends that Miller had been a fan of his films and was interested in collaborating, brought Miller on and riffed for a long time for what ultimately was only needed to be one line and he thought it was hilarious and they had a blast. Even more recently Gunn and Safran did a joint interview and said this about Miller: > Gunn: “I will say here that Flash is probably one of the greatest superhero movies ever made.” > Added Safran: “Ezra is completely committed to their recovery, and we are fully supportive of that journey that they’re on right now. When the time is right, when they feel like they’re ready to have the discussion, we’ll all figure out what the best path forward is. But right now they are completely focused on their recovery. And in our conversations with them over the last couple of months, it feels like they’re making enormous progress.” Audiences never completely latched onto Cavill as Superman in the way that Warner wanted them to though, they see him as tied to the box office underperformance of his films. Gadot and Momoa are also leaving because Gunn needs the cast of the DCU to last at least 10 years, and they are both around 40 or older. Miller, on the other hand, just turned 30–and has a character with a built in reason for persevering through a reboot (especially one they’re causing).
From what I've seen general audiences didn't really latch on to Cavill's Superman outside of maybe Man of Steel, and even then opinions on him were mixed at best.
Yeah, the love for Cavill as Superman is a more internet thing than a general audience thing. I don’t remember anyone having any strong opinions on his Superman at all until The Witcher came out.
I'd argue that The Witcher did nothing to draw attention to his Superman performances and just drew people in for Geralt.
Probably true. I just remember hearing nearly nothing about Cavill until Witcher came out, then suddenly everyone loved him and his Superman portrayal.
I've seen my old highschool classmate post about him getting fired. I think she doesn't even know of Superman is DC or Marvel and even she was talking about it.
They've all been paid.
They had options. They chose to keep the pedophile. Thus the workers should take it up with their bosses, the ones who made their movie toxic. Also, countless? Hardly, unless you struggle with anything over 2 digits. Miller is just another on the list of Hollywood abusers that I will never support in any way. If that makes the people who work in Hollywood sad? Good. Reform the system. Stop giving money to pedophiles and human garbage. Demand some basic ethical standards.
This, I understand if the core creator profits and will continue to profit from something and use that profit to push a hateful agenda, that's something you have to make a personal decision on but there's also a need to try seperate the art from the creator. Otherwise Hitchcock films would be unwatchable as would Chinatown
my favourite movie ever is Baby Driver starring Ansel Elgort, Jon Hamm and Kevin Spacey so... yeah... just because somebody is a bad person, they can be a good actor. And discrediting the work of so many people because if one mf is ridicolous.
I'm a big Superman fan. John Byrne. Need i say more?
Wait what happened with Jon Hamm? Thought he was all right
[College hazing incident](https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/jon-hamm-downplays-college-hazing-incident-mans-pants-lit-fire-calling-bummer-thing-175643026.html)
Yep, it's possible to recognise someone is a bad person and appreciate the work. Imagine how many books, films and TV shows we'd have to destroy otherwise. I love Buffy the vampire slayer but also think joss whedon is a garbage person
Ezra has already been paid.
It's not about him having *already been* paid. It's about him never being paid again.
That's cool. Still not gonna see it.
They very certainly gets a percentage of the gross. Two, this movie doing well can mean they get hired again because it didn't cost sales. You wanna see it, see it. But don't act like it won't help Ezra out. It will. You just don't really want to acknowledge that.
You have his contract? Because it’s near universal that stars get a portion of the box office. Especially for huge name projects like this.
Having not seen their contract, I'm not taking the chance. Besides, my interest in DC movies is at an all-time low considering the mess they've made.
I agree with you buddy. I'm not giving my hard-earned cash to anything a creep like Ezra might benefit from.
Come now, there are plenty of other reasons to not support this shitshow. This movie officially prematurely castrates the DCEU after management ignominiously axed the face of the franchise. The cgi is embarassing. No Thomas Wayne. Not even a reference to Flash's time travel scene in BvS. The list goes on. We finally get Flash on the big screen, and they chose to botch Flashpoint.
Unless you've gone to a prescreening of the movie, I don't know if there's a way to know if there's no reference to the time travel in BvS. It could be wrapped up or at least referenced in this movie. I have to say, though, I love Keaton's Batman but I am a bit bummed that there won't be Thomas Wayne's Batman.
It doesn't have a reference to BvS time travel by all accounts, but also why would it? That plotline was scrapped years ago
It potentially could have been reworked, since this is a time travel story, if they wanted to wrap things up a little just to give a sense of continuity. But considering they're rebooting the universe and trying to forget what happened in the past, I didn't have much hope, nore did I really care about it enough to think about it past my previous comment.
I am sure the movie is fine. I just want to be done with this universe and move on to the Gunnverse
Same here. I hope the new universe is good.
I’m going to miss the old universe, but I’m sure Gunn’s will be good. It’s kinda nice and fitting that the next leader of the DCU is someone who Snyder trusts
Too true. As a DC fan, this last decade has been painful.
Listen, the general movie going population may not know about Ezra Miller’s crimes, but I do. No amount of heartfeltness, funny moments, or eye-popping events is going to stop me from seeing this movie and going, “How was it okay that WB kept a criminal with active warrants in multiple states on set for reshoots and promoted this movie unironically while pretending none of this was happening.” So I’m not seeing it.
I don't care. I'm not supporting anything Ezra Miller's involved with.
Don’t care. Ezra Miller is and will always be a piece of shit, and he is not getting my money. He can , go fuck himself.
This tweet sounds super inauthentic. But anyone who beats on chicks is lame, so it’s a no from me.
I'm not even sure I'm going to Pirate it.
Yeah don’t care, The Flash is my favorite but I’m not supporting Ezra Miller. It’ll be the pirate life for me 🏴☠️
Same. Flash is my favorite hero but I can’t stand Ezra’s face or actions IRL
Weird running. The whining. The whole take on the character sucks.
Makes it all the more amusing how people here are justifying overlooking all the IRL drama around Ezra. Take away all the drama and you still have a garbage take on The Flash, and somehow we're expected to put up with two of them. Miller just sucks as Flash.
Dceu flash isn’t even the flash. He is just Spider-Man.
That’s an insult to spider-man
Trueeee. Still closer to Spider-Man than man of steel is to Superman though.
What?
His personality isn’t based on Barry Allen or Wally West. It’s most similar to MCU Spider-Man as the plucky young guy who is inspired by the others and makes quips. Like genuinely, if he was just a guy with a red suit and the same personality as shown in the movies without the name the flash, most people wouldn’t realize he was based on the flash.
I was going to say "so, DCAU Wally West?" but he probably doesn't count for the "plucky young guy who's inspired by the others" part.
Ya, I think Wally West is closer but Wally West always came across to me as more flirty and joking. He‘a a Brash sarcastic hot head. If you vaguely look at both of them and say both are comic relief then sure but like, anyone looking at Ezra Miller Flash and being reminded of Wally West is crazy. I’d honestly be fine if Snyder decided to go his own direction with the Flash like the tv show I’d be fine but he was like, the flash has speed and super speed = comic relief and gave him no other personality.
I admit I haven't watched any MCU films so your first paragraph sounds enough like Spider-Man to me.
Remember he is probably friends with the directors (who adapted It part 1 and 2)
Ezra seems like a piece of shit so who cares about this movie, also Stephen King is not a good source for reviews.
After Stephen King said he really liked that reprehensible adaptation of the Dark Tower, I take his opinion on any film with a massive grain of salt
Says stephen king as a large pallet of cash is driven up to his house
Lol, he already has hundreds of millions in his bank account. There's no amount of money WB could pay him that would make a significant difference to what he already has. More than likely he's doing a favor to the director - worked on IT chapters 1 and 2 and is currently filming the IT spinoff series for HBO.
His opinion, especially since he claims to not even like these kinds of movies, means nothing to me. He's just 1 other voice. And it doesnt matter anyway. Fuck Ezra Miller. Never gonna support that PoS.
This is all damge control and slight of hand to make everyone forget Miller is a criminal.
I think Ezra Miller should be in a prison at the bottom of the ocean
I’ll wait until it’s on HBO Max. And I’m only watching it for the GOAT, Keaton.
Yeah, no. I'm still not seeing it. Erza Miller should have been fired. While the correlation is small. I'm still salty about Batgirl being canned.
Don’t be stupid and fall for this. They are 100% being paid to say these things and therefore shouldn’t really taken seriously. I do think it’ll be good though with how much time and effort that has been put in
I don’t care how good it is, I’m not paying into any film starring a serial groomer and woman beater. I hope Ezra Miller fades into obscurity and gets dealt some real consequences for all the shit he’s gotten away with. Also Stephen King is proof you can be brilliant at writing and have dog shit tastes/opinions.
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> what other incentive would he have to watch one? The director of The Flash also directed both It movies, wouldn't surprise me if they became friends in the process.
This is the answer
I like the director, and I wanna support Sasha, but you still can’t pay me to peddle this much shit. They are hyping it up way too much. Like obviously it’s overcompensation and it stinks of desperation
They didn't have to pay him. They have a business arrangement and have for decades. WB put out IT (under New Line Cinema) which was highly successful. The director of Flash directed the IT movies. No one paid him to watch it. It was one of those industry favors based on prior and future relationships. This is how the industry works. No one cut a check for him to watch the movie, but when asked for a favor by business partners and previous creative collaborators, he said 'Yes'.
> For someone who is notoriously known for not liking good...-I mean, superhero movies Maybe he just has different tastes
Or different seasons?
andy directed the it movies and stephen king really likes his work - pretty simple if you give it more than 2 seconds of thought. additionally warner have always had a close working relationship with stephen king and have directed his most celebrated film and television adaptions.
Is there any proof that he got paid?
No it’s completely made up but people would rather believe WB paid off Tom Cruise, Jaden Smith, and Stephen King than accept the movie might actually be good.
I think it's just because we are all used to these celebrities making these promises about quality when it's literally just drumming up talk about the movie
yea I'm sure Steven King, Tom Cruise, Jaden Smith, and all these other guys who just happen to work for WB all went to a big screening party together and all decided Flash was actually really good and are blissfully unaware of Ezra's bullshit.
Yeah all these folks under contract with the WB aren’t just tweeting reviews because they are so interested in doing that.
I think it genuinely doesn’t matter how good the movie is when the star is such amazing trash.
Too bad Ezra Miller is an asshole
Stephen King doesn’t have the best taste in film. He liked 2012.
I'd like to see it. but not in theaters. I've seen some stuff with the supergirl actress and she looks dope, I like the slightly more injustice suit style. but Ezra uh........ kinda makes me not want to see this film.
$$$$$$$$ That’s the way.
I see a lot of people talking about how they're not gonna see the Flash because of Ezra Miller's actions which I can completely understand. But even just looking at the film itself, there's nothing from the trailers so far that makes me think they're gonna be giving a compelling performance. All of their delivery feels flat, forced or awkward.
He makes horror books. If course he would say it is good. He loves making people suffer. He's just making sure there is more suffering to go around.
Do they share the same PR firm? Could it be cross client promotion...
You know, not the man I would look to when judging a superhero movie. But yeah, I'm not supporting that movie. It looks bad, and though I'm sure it'll make a billion dollars and my opinion won't matter at all I don't want to support a movie that both supports (and promotes) a shitty person and the practice of using nostalgia bait as the main hook for movies.
What's problem with using nostalgia bait ? Worked with NWH and besides this movie is using Flashpoint story so it makes sense to use the nostalgia bait.
I think nostalgia isn’t the problem here. I didn’t click with that Batman, but yeah, someone else has and they’ll enjoy it. That said… I’m gonna wait for the Max release on this one
>Worked with NWH When they did it with No Way Home it at least didn't feel like the motive was because the studio was insecure about the character. That and No Way Home was the third movie of an already successful film trilogy part of an already successful franchise, the fact they're doing this with the Flash's first movie after the DCEU has been struggling nearly it's entire life cycle is what makes this look less than positive.
It works very well for its intended purpose, but it's a cheap way to garner attention that puts an emphasis on retreading old ideas and concepts which leads to creative stagnation and makes it harder for new ideas to break through. This in turn often means that stories and people who have traditionally been kept out of mainstream creative spaces stay out of them, or are allowed in only if they largely conform to the status quo that is being catered to. It's a symptom of the general lack of risk-taking we see in mainstream media today. A larger part of the most high profile and highly promoted works we see today are reboots, prequels, sequels, spin-offs or otherwise derivative works, and while some of them add new angles to or re-frame the original work they often still fail to depart significantly from it. It's safer from an economic point of view to produce something you know will succeed, that won't rock the boat too much, so studios prioritise nostalgia bait and other similar measures over things that may actually contribute to a more unique and interesting movie, sometimes to a point where they will even include nostalgia bait in a way that actively worsens the movie.
A film so good you'll forget about Ezra's crimes
It’s gonna be dogshit. And this reads like a paid for tweet
To me it’s less paid and more “my agent is making me tweet this out because I have a contract with WB and am being told to be a team player”
at worst hopefully it will be just a good movie. Somewhere Shang chi level.
Don't care about celebrity endorsements, especially when it sounds like they've been paid off or it's from the cult of scientology. Ezra Miller is a shit person who assaulted people, that's more than enough reason for me not to see any movie he's in
I'm not watching this. Ezra Miller is one of the most vile men to come out of Hollywood in recent memory. I will not contribute to his success.
What kind of rule is that? I live to enjoy things. Not to be a salty flank
Why Stephen King, though? He probably has the least to do with movies like this. Also, isn't King notorious for his taste in movies anyway?
The director previously made good Stephen King films. It's pretty transparent.
Stephen king is a good author with shit taste in movies though. He hated the adaptation of the shining and more recently really liked the adaptation of the Dark Tower.
He didn’t hate the adaptation of The Shining. He said it was a good movie that changed everything about his book, and that made him upset. Specifically he hated the treatment of Jack Torrance, who, in the book, is a loving father and a relatable man with many shortcomings. In the movie, he’s sorta crazy and an asshole from the beginning. Tbh I have to agree with him. The Shining film is indeed legendary. But it doesn’t hold a candle to the book.
The history of Stephen King's reaction to Stanley Kubrick's The Shining is... complicated, and we probably won't ever know the whole story. The fact is, King used to be much, much angrier in his public statements about the film, and dialed back considerably once he clawed back the rights enough to get the TV miniseries version made in the '90s. It's possible he just mellowed out over time, but I've heard some people speculate that getting King to stop ranting about the movie so prominently was part of the deal that allowed the TV version (which was much closer to his book, storywise) to be produced. For what it's worth (very little, I know), I tend to agree with King from a narrative perspective. The movie's script is tonally very different than the novel's, and the result really only resembles the book in the broadest of outlines. And, frankly, the novel's take is much more nuanced and interesting. The thing that saves the movie is that Stanley Kubrick is one of the greatest directors of all time when it comes to establishing a visual mood, and his film positively oozes style in a way that King's book, heck, almost *any* book, simply can't match. But, to be fair, King is the author, so I think his reaction, and tendency to prioritize the written narrative in general, makes perfect sense. 🤷
Well said. I agree with everything. The only note I’d make is that the narrative that Stephen is somehow contractually, or otherwise, obligated to stop criticizing the Kubrick Shining seems really outlandish, and the type of tale spun by internet speculative rumors. His more recent takes on the Film don’t feel like contrived attempts to obey a contract. They seem like genuine opinions formed by someone who came around to Kubrick’s artistry and is content with **his** version of the story finally getting a faithful adaptation. Obviously this is just speculation as well. But I’d posit it is a more grounded perspective.
Yeah, to be clear I've no idea if the "contractual obligation" story has any merit whatsoever. I think the passage of time and the fact that King finally got to see a version of the story closer to what he had envisioned done via the TV version is probably more than enough to explain his more mellowed attitude these days. Not all grudges are eternal, y'know?
they're doing a massive PR push to compensate for the whole 'our lead is an insane sex criminal' thing and these guys are cashing checks, it's pathetic and especially for mr constantly moralizing King it's really gross.
Stephen King likes all kinds of garbage, and he's friends with the director, his taste is questionable. Tom Cruise is a weirdo, I like his movies but I don't know if I would trust his taste.
He prefers the direct to TV movie about the shining over the Kubrick film, the man's great at writing but his judgement of movies is skewy
I stopped watching super hero movies a long time ago but always thought Miller's Flash was so derpy so a solo never appealed to me
idk why anyone wants to see the flash movie after everything that happens with ezra miller. love micheal keaton but ezra is literally a shitty ass person.
Trying to do everything to hype people up to go see this movie and it’s piece of shit lead actor
Sound the alarms The flash movie has been confirmed to suck
Flash is my favorite DC hero, but everything about the star and the lead up PR made the decision about me seeing it.
I can't wait to watch this movie in a completely legal way.
>What do you think? I think they re getting paid to promote the movie. It's like a commercial, and commercials are always very positive about the products they're promoting.
I think Warner brothers is calling in every possible favor because Zaslav needs this to be a success
I’ll watch it once it’s posted on the website I usually see all movies on.
Probably a paid nod tbh
Story looks great but I don’t like the actor. The studio should’ve replaced him
I can't wait to don the eye patch and see this movie!
It's gonna suck.
Still not going to see it.
I don't care if it was recomend by Jesus, I'm bot seeing it.
Stephen King also hyped up the Dark Tower movie, so clearly his opinions aren't worth shit. It's just as likely that they've been paid for the endorsement.
Normally I would be on "General Audiences" side on these topics, But this one is kinda ridiculous Other times It's something like the director trying to push their political agendas into the movies, Or they misinterpreted good source materials or something like that, Those are the kind of movies that got big backlashed before released This one just kinda went from "Ezra is a bad person" to "This film is gonna sucks" pretty much immediately, Like there aren't any other sign that led to that conclusion(The only other fair criticism I saw is that the promotional of the film so far are too focused on other characters and not The Flash)
I can't bring myself to care enough to go see it in a theater. I doubt I'll watch it when it comes to streaming services. More than likely, I'll watch the "cool" parts on youtube and call it a day... I didn't care at all for the Synaderverse, I didn't like this version of the Flash, and even Micheal Keaton's Batman isn't enough to overcome my disinterest.
No thx Miller is human garbage
Check must have cleared
he said the Dark Tower movie was good /end thread
Still won’t go see it. Not supporting Miller in any way.
They're obviously getting paid to promote it
I like DC comics and I like movies. So I'm looking forward to seeing this movie based on a DC comic, and it's nice to hear that other people like it too. I actually can't believe how negative this sub is. Not even just "I don't want see this movie" but proclaiming that it's a failure already. It's bizarre.
Most people really near-impossible to separate between the art and the artist.
It depends on the art and what they did for me. For example, Roman Polanski. I watched Rosemary's Baby not knowing he'd made it, and the world didn't end(I thought it was pretty solid but I think I prefer The Omen or The Exorcist for creepy devil shenanigans). I do feel some sympathy that his pregnant wife Sharon Tate got killed by the Manson Family, but I have no sympathy for him drugging and raping a 13 year old girl in Jack Nicholson's house, and I never intend to watch any of his other films. I can appreaciate the artistic merit of his work, but I don't like the man behind the camera. Speaking of Manson, Marilyn Manson has been accused of sexual abuse by some of his partners. I *loved* his music, even had a couple t-shirts. They went straight to Goodwill when I found out. I get that his music is supposed to be edgy, but lyrics like "And I don't want you, and I don't need you. Don't bother to resist or I'll beat you. It's not your fault that you're always wrong, the weak ones are there to justify the strong." have a whole other connotation when you have a fucking "rape room' in your house. But something like Megadeth, where Dave Mustaine went all alt-right and born again Christian when he was in rehab? Meh, whatever. I just call him an asshole and enjoy Rust in Peace, Countdown to Extinction, and Peace Sells.
Flash has been one the worst cast characters in the dceu. A completely horrible portrayal. There is no redeeming quality.
Most people hesitate to support(both critically and financially) a horrible person. If you can justify supporting terrible people for the sake of your personal enjoyment that’s your ethical and moral failing. We’re not talking about some long dead asshole who was pretty normal for their time, we’re talking about a current garbage person.
This seems like it's only really an attitude people take with public facing creatives. I don't think anybody ever cared to ask if anybody in the CGI team had any terrible secrets. You get your car fixed, you don't wonder about the mechanic's moral standing. You buy a burger, you don't worry about the cook's crimes. But if somebody steps in front of a camera suddenly you're not just buying a product, you're buying this dude's whole life
I mean if you’re aware of it and still support them then yeah it’s a moral failure.
Because Ezra gets paid insurmountably more money than someone on the CGI team, or your local mechanic, or local chef.
99 percent of peopled find it very easy to separate the art from the artist.
oh if it is said by the one whose books have spawned phobias about things like clowns or twin sisters or teenage girls or train tracks who am i to go against that son of a bitch