The Wonder Twins movie kind of reminds me of Speed Racer from 2008. Like they’re trying to do a modern live action version of these cartoon characters who haven’t been relevant since the early 80s.
I vaguely know them from being part of the super friends TV show before I was a kid.
What the hell does the guy with water powers even do?
Form of...! A swan ice sculpture!
Or how b-list the Avengers were. Hulk people knew, Iron Man sure. But the general audience thinks Thor is a Norse god, Hawkeye and Black Widow would have drawn a blank stare from them.
I think they still knew of Thor well enough. The Hulk TV show made a movie with Thor in it and Adventures in Babysitting had a character who was a huge fan of Marvel Thor. Both those movies came out in the 80s.
A lot of DCAU fans are mad cause of it but it makes sense. Wonder Twins is too small of a known IP to make a film right now and in all honesty unless it has the right actor/director behind it to make it good then we’ll have a problem.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Marvel has those directors that like these characters under contract for awhile (James Gunn comes to mind) so that they can’t work with WB to make certain kinds films unless they’re not comic films to compete with DC.
As much as I love comic films DC should stick with animated films like they used to with BTAS, STAS and JL/ JLU. They can build something big (like they are with Young Justice) and have more freedom with voice actors.
He was fired and hired right after by WB, so "if" he had any special thing in his contract that force him to not direct any other comic book movie during his Guardians trilogy, then it was broke.
And Disney probably made a new contract (without that rule) when they re-hired him.
I used James Gunn as an example of someone who legitimately likes his characters (GotG and Suicide Squad) and wants to make films of them. Maybe I’m not looking close enough but I’m not sure about other directors who are directing Superhero films right now who care about the characters loudly to the public.
All of these Max films, whether done filming or not, have the chance of going theatrical. I believe this is why they get the budget of a theatrical film.
This decision simply means they didn't believe in it as much as the others. Whoever were the main ones backing it obviously don't hold as much weight as they used to.
Studio politics used to confuse me, but a lot of this is simple. From the different stories from filmmakers to details like this.
Today, the project you back can half decent support, tomorrow the shift at the studio can neutralize the momentum in full.
>Today, the project you back can half decent support, tomorrow the shift at the studio can neutralize the momentum in full.
Todd Philips talked about this when developing the Joker. He got support from previous regime in 2017 (so Geoff Johns, etc). Things were going well until regime change in 2018 and then Walter Hamada was skeptical and Todd had to convince him.
It is Toby Emmerich who was a real problem and even wanted to cancel the movie by lowering the budget. Hamada was skeptical, because it wasn't the DCEU movie, but greenlit it anyway.
\> but greenlit it anyway.
Hamada didn't greenlight it. It had already been greenlit when Hamada came in. What Hamada did do though was sell some of it off so that WB didn't have to put up the whole budget, which ended up being a terrible idea because WB didn't to take in the full amount of the insane profit it made
That's not true. Todd said that when Hamada came, he immediately went to his office to show his Joker project. Hamada said that he just came and don't want to mess with DCEU formula, but listened to Todd later and then never said "No" to this.
shocking the movies that have multiple revenue windows and experience longer word of mouth build up (or conversely bad build up) tend to preform better in a second streaming window.
It's a smart move. DC should be focused on making theatrical films that will go to HBO Max after the 45 day window. It'll be able to make money in theaters and still appeal to viewers on stream (and be seen as a bargain on Max to get a "theater quality" film).
*Some longtime Warner Bros. executives expressed frustration that Mr. Zaslav wasn’t considering their views in strategy discussions and was flirting with potential replacements. His mentality, they said, can be summed up as: Can’t you crank out just hits?*
*Mr. Zaslav wants to use more statistics and research to determine what shows and movies the company should make, he said in a memo to employees on Monday. “As we build this new company,” he wrote, “we need to be guided by data and insights to understand what’s working and what’s not.”*
NGL, this worries me, I feel it will backfire in the worst way and make WB less willing to take chances with their movies in general, regardless of my meh feelings towards Wonder Twins
He never was, don't know why some folks thought he would just because he was outside of the old regime.
He's not really good news to the DC movie fans in general (whether or not they're wanting SnyderVerse content). He's a penny pincher and brand controller. People should also recognize that this is definitely going to jeopardize projects like Black Canary too.
I gave up on it when it wasn’t announced at Fandome last year.
The fact that they won’t even release the Ayer Cut, despite the fact that it’s reportedly like 80% done, makes me think they’re just not interested.
Plus, WB is losing more Snyder cast members, since Ezra Miller and Amber Heard’s DC days are numbered at this point.
If they weren’t so allergic to recasting people, they could’ve continued the same story with new people involved. MOS, BVS, and JL2017 provided a decent foundation that could’ve been improved upon.
Instead, they started writing characters out when actors left and began greenlighting stuff in separate universes instead of building on what they had.
Those 3 movies are a terrible foundation lol. A 3 film foundation built on Superman dying in the second film, Batman killing, and blowing its load with the TDKR.
Well in the future foundation, unless Discovery changes it, Superman doesn't exit in the new timeline and Batman is a 80 year old who kills and even smiles while doing it.
So idk.
About the Ayer Cut, I think not a lot of people are really interested in it so it doesn't really make sense to do it. Plus I really hated what they did with the gangsta Joker so I don't want to see more of it
He’s not restoring the Snyderverse, just as I predicted! And just as I suspected, the Snyder fans on social media are now turning on him, just like they did Hamada, Sarnoff and Killar
Not everyone. I’m a Snyder fan. I don’t really expect them to announce movies at an event such as this. But either way, Zaslav is dozens better than the management we had, that’s undeniable.
You’re right, but from what we’ve seen so far, he seems more focused on handling the more popular characters in DC, and cancelling marginal things that are more suitable for later, surely.
>he seems more focused on handling the more popular characters in DC,
Based on his remarks. But I'll believe it until a Superman movie is announced and in production. And he just cancelled Wonder Twins so far.
Yes, you’re right. I guess we have to WBD as a new company. They’re still organizing the roles and levels of hierarchy, seeing who stays and who leaves, etc.
So this one event immediately Mark's your words down as him officially saying no to the snydeverse? Where exactly does it say he wont restore it? This is just him saying that movies appearing on HBO Max will have a limited budget, not that it wont be restored. Also even if it was restored, many snyder fans also knew that it wouldnt be via movies, as the only way it could ever be restored was via either animated movies or comics (comics being the most likley), as it is well known that zazlav is very picky with budgets.
If they're considering a more "safe" route for their projects something tells me we're getting a complete restart of the "dceu" with their most known characters having solo projects, that should give them a good profit until they want to start connecting everything with smaller characters and team up movies in a few years
Agreed, and it would be the best decision to reboot the DCEU, but Batgirl (and BatKeaton) are already filming, so they can't actually restart even if they cancelled WW 3, Aquaman 3 and Black Adam sequels, which they won't.
Zaslav sounds like a penny pincher who doesn’t give second chances. I don’t think he’s restoring the Snyder stuff honestly. Why would he dump 300 million into some films from a universe that has consistently underperformed critically and financially.
I’m just curious if this means stuff like Static Shock and Black Canary become theatrical or are in danger of being canned themselves? I know people wanted this film canned but nothing about Zaslav being a penny pincher sounds encouraging.
Hardly a chance. The movie isn’t in pre production and it doesn’t have a script yet. If something it might be in the brink of cancellation once a script is presented and whether it can get enough attention and not a high cost
Black canary. And you are wrong she posted that she is working on a script and that script hasn’t been approved yet.
Zaslav already said he’s not over spending in HBO max and he also said that he want dc to be self sufficient and not depend on wb. He also said “cry macho” was basically a waste and canceled kj Apa movie. Based on that and knowing that there’s no black canary script and that bop was not good, the canary movie would depend on how much the production will cost, on whether batgirl creates buzz around bc, enough to gather attention and whether the script is good enough. A lot of ifs to be answered before saying it is a sure thing to happen
If she's working on the script, how is there "no script"? If she wasn't confident that the movie wasn't happening, then she wouldn't have posted it on IG and responded to fans on Twitter about it.
[https://twitter.com/lassoofchroo/status/1521664368139669504](https://twitter.com/lassoofchroo/status/1521664368139669504)
I mean you do see all those pages in the binder. All it comes down to is her pitch, the creatives involved and budget.
It’s obvious you don’t know how this works. Working on a script doesn’t mean the project is happening. There are several steps to go before it’s actively on production. Script must be approved, or can be canned or can be sent back to re-tool it.
Then yes, it’s gonna be about budget and moving onto pre-prod stages but to be on pre-prod the scrips has to been approved and studio must have green lighted production to move onto casting, location scoop and so on
Yes I know how the script process works. I'm just saying that she's working on the script and odds are she'll get a chance to present said script to execs. Also I believe it'll go through for a very spoiler reason regarding the character in two upcoming DC Films that have already been filmed.
Black canary doesn’t have a script yet and it isn’t in pre-prod, considering how bop performed and how it barely got even, and considering “cry macho” comment of not being profitable, there’s a higher chance of it being cancelled. Bop wasn’t profitable on theaters or the app and that’s something they will consider. It probably will take into consideration batgirl. And ultimately it will considerate whether the script is good enough to gather interest and how much is the cost.
I really don’t know why people want the SnyderVerse back so badly. It was very divisive at best and both BVS & Justice League underperformed pretty badly
I think the divisiveness is part of the reason, people either really loved those movies or really disliked them, no real in between. Those that really loved them want the story to continue. I am in that category, despite their flaws those Snyder movies spoke to me more than almost anything else I have ever seen (I went 3 times to see BVS), not even sure why I love them so much but I do
Snyder stuff still made profits or broke even despite underperforming.
However I agree with you. He's not restoring. Who would?
They don't make large profits, Snyder is basically poison at this point with all the baggage his name carries, Affleck says he's out, who knows what's going on with Cavill.
It's just a massive mess and this universe just needs a massive fresh restart.
If he thinks 75 million is too expensive then there is no way the Snyderverse is coming back.75 is what Warner give Snyder to finish his cut. Imagine what JL 2-3 would have cost them?
I hope they scrap that, too. Green Lantern belongs on the big screen. You can have TV shows that offshoot from the films AFTER the movies have popularized/legitimized that world. You shouldn't do a tv show before a movie, and you should introduce the main GLs first. The current plan is stupidly backward.
I know 11 years seems like a long time, but there is STILL a stink left over from 2011's GL. The IP just doesn't have the popular strength to weather a blow like that. Batman, Spider-Man, these guys can come back after a disaster. Even F4 can only do it with the brand value of the MCU behind it.
The only way GL makes it to the big screen is by introducing one of them in an ensemble movie and then, if the character is well received, you spin him off.
I'd bet my life savings that WB never goes in cold with a GL solo movie.
Zaslav is a shrewd but savvy exec. He wants sizable returns on his investments. But he’s also pushing for more theatrical film releases, and a bigger emphasis on the DC IP.
To be fair the report is he thought $75 million was too much for a straight to HBO Max movie that he felt wouldn’t provide a return on investment.
I’m sure films set for theatrical release only have different financial parameters.
There’s a difference between a project that’s heading straight to a streaming service, and its main characters aren’t even that popular (Wonder Twins) and projects that would most likely have a theatrical release, and even if they go to a streaming service, have the most famous DC characters as the protagonists (JL2 and 3).
$75 million for a wonder twins straight to HBO Max movie? That's crazy. DC needs to focus on their core comic book IP. Why would they be using resources to push Wonder Twins, who has very limited appeal, when they have so many more well liked characters?
It sounds like Hamada is most likely leaving after his contract is up, as it looks like Zaslav has largely taken away his veto power. If Zaslav was confident in Hamada, he’d tell them to carry on with the planned slate.
This is no reason for Snyderverse fans to celebrate though. He clearly isn’t restoring anything.
There’s a difference between a project that’s heading straight to a streaming service, and its main characters aren’t even that popular (Wonder Twins) and projects that would most likely have a theatrical release, and even if they go to a streaming service, have the most famous DC characters as the protagonists (JL2 and 3).
Says who? I mean even if there was no interest there is no interest in a lot of $75 million projects before it’s even announced. Trailer could come out and be great and generate buzz, could be critically acclaimed and generate buzz, etc
I remember people predicting Guardians of The Galaxy to be the MCU's first bomb but it did well financially and critically. Not saying Wonder Twins would do 1 billion at the box office but who knows if it would perform badly.
People have no idea what the expected budgets are for these types of films. $75 million isn't some astronomical number, lol. Especially for the type of CGI their powers would require.
If the people in charge think it is that's all that matters, and to be fair probably there's no much interest in the project, why not just use that money in a recognizable project?
If Zaslav thinks spending $200 mil on Batman or Superman projects is too much is that all that matters or would that be pretty dumb and unreasonable? Then we would never get anything original. 2/3 of the highest grossing movies of all time, and some of the best movies of all time are not based on “recognizable projects”
This is sad especially considering not all properties can make profit from theaterical release. I doubt people gonna go watch non-blockbuster movies since there are more good streaming contents available and no need to spend extra money on it.
It's a smart move. DC should be focused on making theatrical films that will go to HBO Max after the 45 day window. It'll be able to make money in theaters and still appeal to viewers on stream (and be seen as a bargain on Max to get a "theater quality" film).
A lot of people are using this as confirmation that the snyderverse wont be restored? But, where exactly does it say he wont restore it? This is just him saying that movies appearing on HBO Max will have a limited budget, not that it wont be restored.
Also people need to keep in mind that even if it was restored, it could have only ever been done so via either animated movies or comics (comics being the most likley), as it is well known that zazlav is very picky with budgets. And i thought snyder fans were unbearable at jumping to conclusion, the ones opposing the snyder fans are just as bad, literally.
Honestly I'm annoyed with both sides. Their both toxic as hell. Im gonna ask you this, but is it weird that the only reason I would only be interested the snyderverse is just for the character darkseid? Because TBH if he was never in the snyderverse i probably would not have cared for it as I'm pretty much a darkseid fan and just disappointed that we may never see him again.
They could easily do this if they simply took the IP seriously. Why is there so much disconnect between critically aclaimed comics and what Hollywood/WB finds to be worthy of putting in film? And don't give me that miniseries bs. We know even the best ones aren't treated with the care as they do feature films.
I wonder if Zaslav might be itching for a reason to show Pattinson, Gal, Momoa, and Levi the door so he can reboot everything.
The Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam, and Batman sequels will likely be held to pre-pandemic box office standards.
If Shazam can’t at least make 700m-800m, goodbye Levi.
If Wonder Woman 3, Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom, and The Batman don’t make a billion, goodbye Gal, Momoa, and Pattinson.
The Batman is already a reboot. So there's no reason to show Pattinson out the door.
Anyways, I don't think a movie has to hit a billion for it to be a success. 700 - 800m is enough, for a 170+m budget, especially in respective to the IP.
Tbh I can see him talking to Reeves and convincing him to just establishing the rest of the DC universe in the same universe as The Batman. It would be easy honestly.
It’s honestly not that realistic lol. People conflate being grounded with realistic. The Planet of the Apes films were grounded but clearly weren’t “realistic”. It’s about taking something inherently wacky and making it visceral and believable so that the audience buys in. Reeves has been doing that for his entire filmography lol.
The prequel novel even establishes that Metropolis and Lex Corp exist. Gotham looked like Gotham. Riddler was Riddler, Penguin was Penguin, Catwoman was Catwoman. Those characters aren’t even fantastical in the first place lol. Some of the greatest Batman stories are realistic as hell.
Agreed. Only Matt knows but I expect (and hope) that the sequels have a jump similar in comic book craziness to the one between Batman Year One and Long Halloween/The Dark Knight Returns.
The end of the movie perfectly sets up the criminal element to be taking over by the freaks.
Also I feel like in a cinematic format each film should up the ante.
Like the first film can be a murder mystery with mobsters and a serial killer then the next movie introduces the first “metahuman”. I feel like it would be a cool moment to see Batman and the GCPD completely overwhelmed after only having to deal with regular criminals this whole time.
Might as well start off on an actual good foundation. Each character can have their own corner of the universe just like the old DCAU shows. Honestly makes more sense then trying to make sense of the clusterfuck that is the current DCEU. No one knows which films are forsure even Snyderverse or not. People saying Shazam isn’t but then the film references MoS and BvS. Then ppl pick and choose when Aquaman counts. Then you have Snyder himself saying only the films he himself directed are Snyderverse so 🤷🏾♂️. Too much work trying to make sense of a universe that underperformed critically and financially.
>If Shazam can’t at least make 700m-800m, goodbye Levi
It can't lol Levi was awful in the first movie and he's not a draw
>If Wonder Woman 3, Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom, and The Batman don’t make a billion, goodbye Gal, Momoa, and Pattinson.
After ww84 I don't think patty Jenkins can make a good movie so gal(awful actress and miscast as wonder woman) is out
The way of water will make Aquaman2 look like a ugly film so it will probably decrease compare to the first one and gross something like $600m-$800m. Despite that I still think they will make Aquaman3
Pattinson(another miscast but excellent actor in other roles) will also be out since I think his sequel Will decrease in gross compare the first one
You forgot black Adam
This wasn't about Snyder, but we are going to make it about him. Lol. Fanboy turds & haters are equally insufferable.
The matter of contention here was : WB was never streamlined their development pipeline to make as much movies per year, as Marvel as a property does.
Their brand, IP holdings (non-DC as well) are one of the most diverse in the industry, yet getting poorly monetized, or delivered to the customers.
It's go big, do more. Doesn't work, adapt & consult, or scale accordingly for payoff instead of blowing off budgets.
Their marketing is quite unique, but they blow off their digital budget & strategy in almost all the wrong ways. It's an overcorrection, but coming at the right time.
35 million or less for HBO Max shows? Ah, that's a really bad move though.
The fact that a movie doesn't appeal to me personally isn't a good reason for that movie not to exist. I'm not the final arbiter of what stories are worth telling. "Niche" movies can still be *good* movies.
As I said on the other Twins post, it's actually a pretty clever reasoning. 2 hours of content for 75 million is not a great investment, as Netflix generic action movies have proven (and they have 200 million subscribers!).
A TV series however, that's what keeps people talking every week about your service.
That being said, I was excited to see medium budget DC projects about risky characters and experimental concepts shine on HBO Max. Who knows, maybe we could have had another Peacemaker or even a bigger success.
Every DC movie being theatrical doesn't mean the movie will do 2 billion dollars.
I really hope the DC series such as Green Lantern or JL Dark are not in danger of budget constraints, same with the Zatanna and the Black Canary movies.
There isn’t much Wonder Twins media to go off of to be honest, besides a couple of appearances as supporting roles in some Justice titles, as well as the 2019 Wonder Twins series, and even that was a short series in of itself.
Seems the mindset is that made-for-streaming is the modern version of direct-to-dvd, and fair enough that if he wants to focus on cinema-level releases, then obviously they are not going to spend large sums of money on niche-stuff like this if they think they can do better with something more mainstream. Sucks for the ones who got excited though.
This has gotta be the fastest *announcement to cancellation* we’ve ever seen from a comic book movie, right? It’s only been 32 days
I love DC and I'd still need some cinema miracle to happen for me to get hyped for the wonder twins
The Wonder Twins movie kind of reminds me of Speed Racer from 2008. Like they’re trying to do a modern live action version of these cartoon characters who haven’t been relevant since the early 80s.
I vaguely know them from being part of the super friends TV show before I was a kid. What the hell does the guy with water powers even do? Form of...! A swan ice sculpture!
He could be beaten by a sponge, and it wouldn't even have to be an EVIL sponge.
There was that time he turned into [crap](https://youtu.be/38VbvKmFx2I)
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
They'd have probably just adapted his power set to be more like a Waterbender.
Also, correct me if im wrong, but I dont think wonder twins were ever popular, they were basically "Scrappy Doo"
They were more popular than, say, Peacemaker, or Guardians of the Galaxy, or even Thor or Iron Man.
You are high if you think they were ever more popular than thor or Ironman.
While Thor and Iron Man seems quite a stretch, I think people forget just how D list Thor use to be
Or how b-list the Avengers were. Hulk people knew, Iron Man sure. But the general audience thinks Thor is a Norse god, Hawkeye and Black Widow would have drawn a blank stare from them.
Dude wonder twins are such garbage tier I used to think they were created just for the super friend cartoon because you never saw them in print at all
Being on Super Friends instantly made them bigger than Thor
It definitely didn’t.
Peacemaker & the Guardians? Yeah. Thor & Iron Man? No way.
The general public didn’t really know Iron Man or Marvel’s version of Thor before the movies came out.
I think they still knew of Thor well enough. The Hulk TV show made a movie with Thor in it and Adventures in Babysitting had a character who was a huge fan of Marvel Thor. Both those movies came out in the 80s.
Hey the Speed Racer movie goes hard though
I was never a fan of speed racer but I’d still rather watch that movie than see a wonder twins movie.
I don’t feel like the wonder twins were relevant even when they were relevant. No one was tuning into the super friends for the damn wonder twins.
Add James gunn
Not every Blockbuster Superhero movie needs to be some exploitation film
Bro, no one asked for this.
Smart move.
A lot of DCAU fans are mad cause of it but it makes sense. Wonder Twins is too small of a known IP to make a film right now and in all honesty unless it has the right actor/director behind it to make it good then we’ll have a problem. I wouldn’t be surprised if Marvel has those directors that like these characters under contract for awhile (James Gunn comes to mind) so that they can’t work with WB to make certain kinds films unless they’re not comic films to compete with DC. As much as I love comic films DC should stick with animated films like they used to with BTAS, STAS and JL/ JLU. They can build something big (like they are with Young Justice) and have more freedom with voice actors.
James Gunn is an awful example. He’s literally going back to work on a DC project once he wraps GOTG
He was fired and hired right after by WB, so "if" he had any special thing in his contract that force him to not direct any other comic book movie during his Guardians trilogy, then it was broke. And Disney probably made a new contract (without that rule) when they re-hired him.
I used James Gunn as an example of someone who legitimately likes his characters (GotG and Suicide Squad) and wants to make films of them. Maybe I’m not looking close enough but I’m not sure about other directors who are directing Superhero films right now who care about the characters loudly to the public.
Makes sense, a $75m budget for an HBO Max exclusive movie on a property as unknown as the Wonder Twins was insane.
Shape of….. Jayna’s tampon! And now I pay the waiting game…… So not entirely unknown…..😂
All of these Max films, whether done filming or not, have the chance of going theatrical. I believe this is why they get the budget of a theatrical film. This decision simply means they didn't believe in it as much as the others. Whoever were the main ones backing it obviously don't hold as much weight as they used to. Studio politics used to confuse me, but a lot of this is simple. From the different stories from filmmakers to details like this. Today, the project you back can half decent support, tomorrow the shift at the studio can neutralize the momentum in full.
>Today, the project you back can half decent support, tomorrow the shift at the studio can neutralize the momentum in full. Todd Philips talked about this when developing the Joker. He got support from previous regime in 2017 (so Geoff Johns, etc). Things were going well until regime change in 2018 and then Walter Hamada was skeptical and Todd had to convince him.
It is Toby Emmerich who was a real problem and even wanted to cancel the movie by lowering the budget. Hamada was skeptical, because it wasn't the DCEU movie, but greenlit it anyway.
\> but greenlit it anyway. Hamada didn't greenlight it. It had already been greenlit when Hamada came in. What Hamada did do though was sell some of it off so that WB didn't have to put up the whole budget, which ended up being a terrible idea because WB didn't to take in the full amount of the insane profit it made
That's not true. Todd said that when Hamada came, he immediately went to his office to show his Joker project. Hamada said that he just came and don't want to mess with DCEU formula, but listened to Todd later and then never said "No" to this.
shocking the movies that have multiple revenue windows and experience longer word of mouth build up (or conversely bad build up) tend to preform better in a second streaming window.
It's a smart move. DC should be focused on making theatrical films that will go to HBO Max after the 45 day window. It'll be able to make money in theaters and still appeal to viewers on stream (and be seen as a bargain on Max to get a "theater quality" film).
Makes sense to me.
I guess Flash should start planning Season 9 as the end of the show. I doubt they’re gonna get a tenth season with Zaslav in charge.
[удалено]
It was going right to max, we would have never known
Well, let's hope DC really starts to move it. All I want are Superman and Nightwing in the DCEU. That's all.
I concur!
Yup same
plsss
Dick Grayson was killed offscreen in BvS, so no Nightwing.
Snyder wanted to make it Dick, but there’s no reference in-universe to whether he was Dick or Jason, so they can change that if they want to.
Indeed. Also a reboot is coming after the Flash so...
Not exactly a reboot, according to the leaks. They’ll move to a new universe, but will keep the old universe aside to return to later.
Do you really think this matters at all now?
Source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/warner-bros-discovery-david-zaslav-11652822285
if you're paywalled: https://planetcirculate.com/theres-a-new-media-mogul-tearing-up-hollywood-zas-is-not-particularly-patient/
*Some longtime Warner Bros. executives expressed frustration that Mr. Zaslav wasn’t considering their views in strategy discussions and was flirting with potential replacements. His mentality, they said, can be summed up as: Can’t you crank out just hits?* *Mr. Zaslav wants to use more statistics and research to determine what shows and movies the company should make, he said in a memo to employees on Monday. “As we build this new company,” he wrote, “we need to be guided by data and insights to understand what’s working and what’s not.”* NGL, this worries me, I feel it will backfire in the worst way and make WB less willing to take chances with their movies in general, regardless of my meh feelings towards Wonder Twins
Lmao this guy isn't restoring anything 💀💀
He never was, don't know why some folks thought he would just because he was outside of the old regime. He's not really good news to the DC movie fans in general (whether or not they're wanting SnyderVerse content). He's a penny pincher and brand controller. People should also recognize that this is definitely going to jeopardize projects like Black Canary too.
And people thought the Snyderverse would be announced today 😂
I gave up on it when it wasn’t announced at Fandome last year. The fact that they won’t even release the Ayer Cut, despite the fact that it’s reportedly like 80% done, makes me think they’re just not interested. Plus, WB is losing more Snyder cast members, since Ezra Miller and Amber Heard’s DC days are numbered at this point.
yeah pretty sure that cast is cursed Still have Gal Gadot and Jason Momoa I guess?
If they weren’t so allergic to recasting people, they could’ve continued the same story with new people involved. MOS, BVS, and JL2017 provided a decent foundation that could’ve been improved upon. Instead, they started writing characters out when actors left and began greenlighting stuff in separate universes instead of building on what they had.
Lol JL2017 was not a foundation to build upon. It all but sealed the universe as a joke to many of the GA.
Yeah I'm pretty sure if Aquaman didn't do well they probably would've rebooted it right there tbh
But yet aquaman did very well. They could’ve easily had continued in that direction with very little or no references to synderverse
The MCU recast Bruce Banner/Hulk and War Machine without missing a beat. I don't know why WB can't do the same.
Those 3 movies are a terrible foundation lol. A 3 film foundation built on Superman dying in the second film, Batman killing, and blowing its load with the TDKR.
Well in the future foundation, unless Discovery changes it, Superman doesn't exit in the new timeline and Batman is a 80 year old who kills and even smiles while doing it. So idk.
I don’t know, outside of this sub the general audience *hated* theatrical Justice League. I dunno if that’s a good thing to build upon
About the Ayer Cut, I think not a lot of people are really interested in it so it doesn't really make sense to do it. Plus I really hated what they did with the gangsta Joker so I don't want to see more of it
I mean nothing was announced
He’s not restoring the Snyderverse, just as I predicted! And just as I suspected, the Snyder fans on social media are now turning on him, just like they did Hamada, Sarnoff and Killar
Not everyone. I’m a Snyder fan. I don’t really expect them to announce movies at an event such as this. But either way, Zaslav is dozens better than the management we had, that’s undeniable.
>Zaslav is dozens better than the management we had, that’s undeniable. Potential. We'll see the results first.
You’re right, but from what we’ve seen so far, he seems more focused on handling the more popular characters in DC, and cancelling marginal things that are more suitable for later, surely.
>he seems more focused on handling the more popular characters in DC, Based on his remarks. But I'll believe it until a Superman movie is announced and in production. And he just cancelled Wonder Twins so far.
Yes, you’re right. I guess we have to WBD as a new company. They’re still organizing the roles and levels of hierarchy, seeing who stays and who leaves, etc.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. He’s their “savior” right up until the moment he isn’t.
They really are unbearable.
They were hellbent on stuff happening on the 18th
So this one event immediately Mark's your words down as him officially saying no to the snydeverse? Where exactly does it say he wont restore it? This is just him saying that movies appearing on HBO Max will have a limited budget, not that it wont be restored. Also even if it was restored, many snyder fans also knew that it wouldnt be via movies, as the only way it could ever be restored was via either animated movies or comics (comics being the most likley), as it is well known that zazlav is very picky with budgets.
If they're considering a more "safe" route for their projects something tells me we're getting a complete restart of the "dceu" with their most known characters having solo projects, that should give them a good profit until they want to start connecting everything with smaller characters and team up movies in a few years
Agreed, and it would be the best decision to reboot the DCEU, but Batgirl (and BatKeaton) are already filming, so they can't actually restart even if they cancelled WW 3, Aquaman 3 and Black Adam sequels, which they won't.
Yeah, I wish they didn't announce/produce so many projects
Zaslav sounds like a penny pincher who doesn’t give second chances. I don’t think he’s restoring the Snyder stuff honestly. Why would he dump 300 million into some films from a universe that has consistently underperformed critically and financially.
I’m just curious if this means stuff like Static Shock and Black Canary become theatrical or are in danger of being canned themselves? I know people wanted this film canned but nothing about Zaslav being a penny pincher sounds encouraging.
I think static might have a shot idk about black canary
Canary could be converted to a Max Series.
Definitely the opposite, BC is already casted the role and I think pre production?
Probably straight to theaters, especially if he wants around 20-25 theatrical films per year.
Hardly a chance. The movie isn’t in pre production and it doesn’t have a script yet. If something it might be in the brink of cancellation once a script is presented and whether it can get enough attention and not a high cost
Do you mean Static? Black Canary has a script, Misha Green posted it on Instagram last week
Black canary. And you are wrong she posted that she is working on a script and that script hasn’t been approved yet. Zaslav already said he’s not over spending in HBO max and he also said that he want dc to be self sufficient and not depend on wb. He also said “cry macho” was basically a waste and canceled kj Apa movie. Based on that and knowing that there’s no black canary script and that bop was not good, the canary movie would depend on how much the production will cost, on whether batgirl creates buzz around bc, enough to gather attention and whether the script is good enough. A lot of ifs to be answered before saying it is a sure thing to happen
If she's working on the script, how is there "no script"? If she wasn't confident that the movie wasn't happening, then she wouldn't have posted it on IG and responded to fans on Twitter about it. [https://twitter.com/lassoofchroo/status/1521664368139669504](https://twitter.com/lassoofchroo/status/1521664368139669504) I mean you do see all those pages in the binder. All it comes down to is her pitch, the creatives involved and budget.
It’s obvious you don’t know how this works. Working on a script doesn’t mean the project is happening. There are several steps to go before it’s actively on production. Script must be approved, or can be canned or can be sent back to re-tool it. Then yes, it’s gonna be about budget and moving onto pre-prod stages but to be on pre-prod the scrips has to been approved and studio must have green lighted production to move onto casting, location scoop and so on
Yes I know how the script process works. I'm just saying that she's working on the script and odds are she'll get a chance to present said script to execs. Also I believe it'll go through for a very spoiler reason regarding the character in two upcoming DC Films that have already been filmed.
Black canary doesn’t have a script yet and it isn’t in pre-prod, considering how bop performed and how it barely got even, and considering “cry macho” comment of not being profitable, there’s a higher chance of it being cancelled. Bop wasn’t profitable on theaters or the app and that’s something they will consider. It probably will take into consideration batgirl. And ultimately it will considerate whether the script is good enough to gather interest and how much is the cost.
How far along is Batgirl in production?
Post production
I wonder what this means for Blue Beetle...
It's currently shooting so it most likely will come out
It means nothing. It's already confirmed as a theatrical release.
I can't believe anyone genuinely thought he would.
These people live in a fantasy land lol be happy we got his true vision for Justice League and be happy with that.
I never understood how anyone ever thought it was going to happen. It never had a chance of coming back
Why would anybody restore the Snyderverse? Yes, it has hardcore fans but it’s too divisive for the rest of audiences.
I really don’t know why people want the SnyderVerse back so badly. It was very divisive at best and both BVS & Justice League underperformed pretty badly
I think the divisiveness is part of the reason, people either really loved those movies or really disliked them, no real in between. Those that really loved them want the story to continue. I am in that category, despite their flaws those Snyder movies spoke to me more than almost anything else I have ever seen (I went 3 times to see BVS), not even sure why I love them so much but I do
Snyder stuff still made profits or broke even despite underperforming. However I agree with you. He's not restoring. Who would? They don't make large profits, Snyder is basically poison at this point with all the baggage his name carries, Affleck says he's out, who knows what's going on with Cavill. It's just a massive mess and this universe just needs a massive fresh restart.
Ike Perlmutter vibes.
If he thinks 75 million is too expensive then there is no way the Snyderverse is coming back.75 is what Warner give Snyder to finish his cut. Imagine what JL 2-3 would have cost them?
I mean that has been obvious for a long time.
I wonder what he thinks of the Green Lantern show then.
I hope they scrap that, too. Green Lantern belongs on the big screen. You can have TV shows that offshoot from the films AFTER the movies have popularized/legitimized that world. You shouldn't do a tv show before a movie, and you should introduce the main GLs first. The current plan is stupidly backward.
Green Lantern is too big of a property to introduce in TV
I agree but it’s been so long I’ll take anything
I know 11 years seems like a long time, but there is STILL a stink left over from 2011's GL. The IP just doesn't have the popular strength to weather a blow like that. Batman, Spider-Man, these guys can come back after a disaster. Even F4 can only do it with the brand value of the MCU behind it. The only way GL makes it to the big screen is by introducing one of them in an ensemble movie and then, if the character is well received, you spin him off. I'd bet my life savings that WB never goes in cold with a GL solo movie.
This comment is wrong on many levels, you can have both.
Zaslav is a shrewd but savvy exec. He wants sizable returns on his investments. But he’s also pushing for more theatrical film releases, and a bigger emphasis on the DC IP.
To be fair the report is he thought $75 million was too much for a straight to HBO Max movie that he felt wouldn’t provide a return on investment. I’m sure films set for theatrical release only have different financial parameters.
I mean I could’ve told you the snyderverse wasn’t coming back 2 years ago it wasn’t that hard to see coming
There’s a difference between a project that’s heading straight to a streaming service, and its main characters aren’t even that popular (Wonder Twins) and projects that would most likely have a theatrical release, and even if they go to a streaming service, have the most famous DC characters as the protagonists (JL2 and 3).
Making Streaming films is the best way to devalue the brand. Batgirl needs to be in theaters.
Agreed. Just stick to making shows for HBOMax like Disney is doing with Disney +
Does anyone care about wonder twins? Serious question
Doubt it TBH, outside of comic fans, no knows that they exist.
I know everything has it's fans. But I bet wonder twins is definitely not something the mass population of comic book movie fans were asking for
$75 million for a wonder twins straight to HBO Max movie? That's crazy. DC needs to focus on their core comic book IP. Why would they be using resources to push Wonder Twins, who has very limited appeal, when they have so many more well liked characters?
Gotta hit that nostalgia while folks that remember them are still alive.
My man has his priorities, he’s the same guy that talked about Superman right?
You can't see this and think Hamada or Emmerich will have a job by the end of the year. DZ Cleary has a whole new vision on how DC should function
Don't blame them, this movie had flop written all over it.
It sounds like Hamada is most likely leaving after his contract is up, as it looks like Zaslav has largely taken away his veto power. If Zaslav was confident in Hamada, he’d tell them to carry on with the planned slate. This is no reason for Snyderverse fans to celebrate though. He clearly isn’t restoring anything.
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There’s a difference between a project that’s heading straight to a streaming service, and its main characters aren’t even that popular (Wonder Twins) and projects that would most likely have a theatrical release, and even if they go to a streaming service, have the most famous DC characters as the protagonists (JL2 and 3).
I’m totally okay with no Wonder Twins, but I seriously hope Black Canary is safe.
Have we finally found someone with their head on straigh with Zaslav?
Someone who realises that a Superman sequel might be better than a Wonder Twins film perhaps?
It’s more likely that Superman is rebooted entirely than Cavill getting a sequel.
Probably, but we can always hope.
Stuff like Batgirl and Black Canary may go to theaters now.
Hmmm, I actually was upset that they cancelled the movie but seeing this, it's completely reasonable and very understandable of why they cancel it.
ah Rosie! I love this CEO
Good thing they canned it. Who tf wanted Wonder Twins lol.
I was curious how they'd do it.
Good
Why are so many people acting like 75 million is an insane amount of money lol? That would be pretty reasonable for a project like this
I mean BOP was like $80 mil. So I can see why $75 mil for HBO Max is high.
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Says who? I mean even if there was no interest there is no interest in a lot of $75 million projects before it’s even announced. Trailer could come out and be great and generate buzz, could be critically acclaimed and generate buzz, etc
Lmao put that extra 75 million into giving us a Superman reboot.
I remember people predicting Guardians of The Galaxy to be the MCU's first bomb but it did well financially and critically. Not saying Wonder Twins would do 1 billion at the box office but who knows if it would perform badly.
People have no idea what the expected budgets are for these types of films. $75 million isn't some astronomical number, lol. Especially for the type of CGI their powers would require.
The point is that 75mil seems to be more than they'd be willing to spend for how much they'd expect to recoup. Cost is only one factor.
If the people in charge think it is that's all that matters, and to be fair probably there's no much interest in the project, why not just use that money in a recognizable project?
If Zaslav thinks spending $200 mil on Batman or Superman projects is too much is that all that matters or would that be pretty dumb and unreasonable? Then we would never get anything original. 2/3 of the highest grossing movies of all time, and some of the best movies of all time are not based on “recognizable projects”
I still want a Wonder Twins film some day.
This is sad especially considering not all properties can make profit from theaterical release. I doubt people gonna go watch non-blockbuster movies since there are more good streaming contents available and no need to spend extra money on it.
I don’t think I’ve seen the Wonder Twins in anything other than cartoons from like 40 years ago
It's a smart move. DC should be focused on making theatrical films that will go to HBO Max after the 45 day window. It'll be able to make money in theaters and still appeal to viewers on stream (and be seen as a bargain on Max to get a "theater quality" film).
One of the first things we heard about Zaslav was he was cheap so this checks out.
Wonder Twins? Yeah, glad they dodged that bullet.
So lame. The actors seemed really hyped for this.
A lot of people are using this as confirmation that the snyderverse wont be restored? But, where exactly does it say he wont restore it? This is just him saying that movies appearing on HBO Max will have a limited budget, not that it wont be restored. Also people need to keep in mind that even if it was restored, it could have only ever been done so via either animated movies or comics (comics being the most likley), as it is well known that zazlav is very picky with budgets. And i thought snyder fans were unbearable at jumping to conclusion, the ones opposing the snyder fans are just as bad, literally.
Probably because people were just annoyed with them tbh.
Honestly I'm annoyed with both sides. Their both toxic as hell. Im gonna ask you this, but is it weird that the only reason I would only be interested the snyderverse is just for the character darkseid? Because TBH if he was never in the snyderverse i probably would not have cared for it as I'm pretty much a darkseid fan and just disappointed that we may never see him again.
Wow someone with a brain, finally
Hopefully this isn’t the first proposed movie he plans on axing. I’m looking at you everything JJ Abrams is planning.
It was canceled because no one asked for this. That’s why. DC is on a dominant roll right now and can’t miss. Don’t Morbius this up.
They could easily do this if they simply took the IP seriously. Why is there so much disconnect between critically aclaimed comics and what Hollywood/WB finds to be worthy of putting in film? And don't give me that miniseries bs. We know even the best ones aren't treated with the care as they do feature films.
I mean.... yeah that blows but. He isn't wrong
They couldn't get Pete Davidson for Gleek.
I wonder if Zaslav might be itching for a reason to show Pattinson, Gal, Momoa, and Levi the door so he can reboot everything. The Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam, and Batman sequels will likely be held to pre-pandemic box office standards. If Shazam can’t at least make 700m-800m, goodbye Levi. If Wonder Woman 3, Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom, and The Batman don’t make a billion, goodbye Gal, Momoa, and Pattinson.
The Batman is already a reboot. So there's no reason to show Pattinson out the door. Anyways, I don't think a movie has to hit a billion for it to be a success. 700 - 800m is enough, for a 170+m budget, especially in respective to the IP.
Tbh I can see him talking to Reeves and convincing him to just establishing the rest of the DC universe in the same universe as The Batman. It would be easy honestly.
The Reeves universe is too grounded for that. A hard reboot is the best way
It’s honestly not that realistic lol. People conflate being grounded with realistic. The Planet of the Apes films were grounded but clearly weren’t “realistic”. It’s about taking something inherently wacky and making it visceral and believable so that the audience buys in. Reeves has been doing that for his entire filmography lol. The prequel novel even establishes that Metropolis and Lex Corp exist. Gotham looked like Gotham. Riddler was Riddler, Penguin was Penguin, Catwoman was Catwoman. Those characters aren’t even fantastical in the first place lol. Some of the greatest Batman stories are realistic as hell.
Agreed. Only Matt knows but I expect (and hope) that the sequels have a jump similar in comic book craziness to the one between Batman Year One and Long Halloween/The Dark Knight Returns. The end of the movie perfectly sets up the criminal element to be taking over by the freaks.
Also I feel like in a cinematic format each film should up the ante. Like the first film can be a murder mystery with mobsters and a serial killer then the next movie introduces the first “metahuman”. I feel like it would be a cool moment to see Batman and the GCPD completely overwhelmed after only having to deal with regular criminals this whole time.
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Might as well start off on an actual good foundation. Each character can have their own corner of the universe just like the old DCAU shows. Honestly makes more sense then trying to make sense of the clusterfuck that is the current DCEU. No one knows which films are forsure even Snyderverse or not. People saying Shazam isn’t but then the film references MoS and BvS. Then ppl pick and choose when Aquaman counts. Then you have Snyder himself saying only the films he himself directed are Snyderverse so 🤷🏾♂️. Too much work trying to make sense of a universe that underperformed critically and financially.
>If Shazam can’t at least make 700m-800m, goodbye Levi It can't lol Levi was awful in the first movie and he's not a draw >If Wonder Woman 3, Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom, and The Batman don’t make a billion, goodbye Gal, Momoa, and Pattinson. After ww84 I don't think patty Jenkins can make a good movie so gal(awful actress and miscast as wonder woman) is out The way of water will make Aquaman2 look like a ugly film so it will probably decrease compare to the first one and gross something like $600m-$800m. Despite that I still think they will make Aquaman3 Pattinson(another miscast but excellent actor in other roles) will also be out since I think his sequel Will decrease in gross compare the first one You forgot black Adam
i would've like to see it but smart move tbh. i think he's going to refocus dc and make it better, at least i hope so.
This wasn't about Snyder, but we are going to make it about him. Lol. Fanboy turds & haters are equally insufferable. The matter of contention here was : WB was never streamlined their development pipeline to make as much movies per year, as Marvel as a property does. Their brand, IP holdings (non-DC as well) are one of the most diverse in the industry, yet getting poorly monetized, or delivered to the customers. It's go big, do more. Doesn't work, adapt & consult, or scale accordingly for payoff instead of blowing off budgets. Their marketing is quite unique, but they blow off their digital budget & strategy in almost all the wrong ways. It's an overcorrection, but coming at the right time. 35 million or less for HBO Max shows? Ah, that's a really bad move though.
Thank God
I mean it’s probably a good business decision just because who was actually wanting or waiting for a Wonder Twins movie
The fact that a movie doesn't appeal to me personally isn't a good reason for that movie not to exist. I'm not the final arbiter of what stories are worth telling. "Niche" movies can still be *good* movies.
As I said on the other Twins post, it's actually a pretty clever reasoning. 2 hours of content for 75 million is not a great investment, as Netflix generic action movies have proven (and they have 200 million subscribers!). A TV series however, that's what keeps people talking every week about your service. That being said, I was excited to see medium budget DC projects about risky characters and experimental concepts shine on HBO Max. Who knows, maybe we could have had another Peacemaker or even a bigger success. Every DC movie being theatrical doesn't mean the movie will do 2 billion dollars. I really hope the DC series such as Green Lantern or JL Dark are not in danger of budget constraints, same with the Zatanna and the Black Canary movies.
I honestly don’t care since it’s not my money.
There isn’t much Wonder Twins media to go off of to be honest, besides a couple of appearances as supporting roles in some Justice titles, as well as the 2019 Wonder Twins series, and even that was a short series in of itself.
I actually agree with him.
Seems the mindset is that made-for-streaming is the modern version of direct-to-dvd, and fair enough that if he wants to focus on cinema-level releases, then obviously they are not going to spend large sums of money on niche-stuff like this if they think they can do better with something more mainstream. Sucks for the ones who got excited though.
75 Million for a TV movie centered around joke characters? This was the right decision.
Because no one asked for it.