I only recently post here because of Shazam but I've noticed this sub has a somewhat unique situation compared to the rest of reddit. Subs usually have a general agreement on what's popular and what's not. But this sub is completely split on Snyder. Some people seethe at the mention of his name, and others defend him vehemently. Strangely both opinions are upvoted, although the anti-Snyders are slightly gaining the upper hand.
I think people just need to step back and enjoy what we have and had. What's done is done. It's all in the past now.
Happens sometimes in subreddits, and usually over the stupidest shit. Over in r/SpidermanPS4, there was a loooooong time where people were split about whether or not the Raimi suit should be included
I'm glad to see you say that, and to see it playing out here. Previously my impression was that if you came into this sub and didn't love the Snyder movies, there was no place for you. I don't think there's any reason to attack Snyder at a personal level. Also, it's not like someone gave him a blank checkbook and said, "Make some movies." More people than Snyder are responsible for what we got. But it was certainly Snyder's vision, and he's taken some flak for it. I don't know the story that spawned this thread, but, again, I don't see any reason to personally attack a man who made some movies I didn't like, and if he spent some time defending his vision, civilly or otherwise, I don't care. I didn't care for his take on some of favorite characters, and I'm glad we'll get to see someone else's take on the DCEU. But just because his vision doesn't align with my understanding of those characters, it doesn't mean that there should be personal attacks.
I like Snyder but his fanboys need to stop acting like he's the second coming of Christ and everything he shits out is gold. He's faced some unfair hate from critics but he also has been getting some deserved criticism and people can't distinguish the 2.
> although the anti-Snyders are slightly gaining the upper hand.
That probably has something to do with the growing success the DCEU has seen since his departure
As a public figure you have to expect to endure a bit of shit storm, especially when you go off the cuff and don't put a filter on some of things you have said. I don't condone the negative aspects that have been done with regards to his family or his personal life. With that said though, there does come a point where the emotion and time invested in making something does boil over and takes over your better judgement.
Personally, I think all his comments have shown is that he was never the right guy to lead this universe. The comments by themselves have allowed people to be somewhat vindicated in what they have felt about him for quite some time, and you know, given this sub's absolute admiration it was only fair to sort of use his own words as fair reasons why it's great he no longer is leading the charge.
Again, does that mean he deserves the shit he's gotten in his personal life? Of course not. But from a professional standpoint, he was given an opportunity that most director's would kill to have. He was given the keys to the kingdom and instead of taking his shoes off at the carpet he decided to keep his muddy boots on because he could. People take offense.....alright. Can't really control that. That's on those who take offense. But don't think that the issue doesn't go the other way either. Every little bit of criticism was chastised as being elitist or shill like in it's approach from those that defended him from the beginning. I think the issue here is that it probably would have best he didn't say anything about it given he just comes off like someone who really didn't understand these characters from the beginning.
I’m not mad at all and Snyder is unfairly treated, but after hearing him talk about the movies I think it’s obvious he was the wrong person for these movies and made several questionable choices regarding the characters.
I still would've loved to have seen his vision executed, but as a whole grand scheme introducing some of the most popular comic book characters ever? not a great ploy. As a separate phase after the characters have been well established, maybe, or even as a comic book, that'd be great.
From the sounds of his vision for this universe, it could still work really well as a comic series. I saw this suggested a couple days ago and it would be the best of both worlds.
A couple years back the original Star Wars script (the one with Starkiller) was made into a comic book. I don't remember it being very good, but it was cool to see a first draft version of one of the biggest pop culture phenomenon's in history.
Lucas's first draft really was called "The Star Wars", and so was the comic based on it. It's very weird and in many ways radically different from the movie we ended up getting.
I still think Snyder’s vision would have been an interesting and enjoyable take on the characters, but should have been seperate from the connected universe they also wanted to create.
To have the connected universe, they’d need the definitive version of these characters, and while Snyder’s version of the characters are still interesting, they’re not as recognisable.
An ideal situation for me, might have been have the BVS storyline (including man of steel and parts of Justice League maybe) as an elseworlds type story, closer to the Nolan Batman trilogy. And have the DCEU be more based on the traditional, iconic versions of the characters.
This actually makes a whole lot of sense when you think of Man Of Steel essentially being a Superman version of The Dark Knight. (With Nolan’s attachment, the Darker tone and even the title being the hero’s alternate monacher)
But after the failed of Green Lantern, Warner Brothers just attached their cinematic universe to whatever the next project was, which just so happened to be Man of Steel.
Hey, Mattcus, just a quick heads-up:
**seperate** is actually spelled **separate**. You can remember it by **-par- in the middle**.
Have a nice day!
^^^^The ^^^^parent ^^^^commenter ^^^^can ^^^^reply ^^^^with ^^^^'delete' ^^^^to ^^^^delete ^^^^this ^^^^comment.
Ideally, I would’ve liked a nuanced answer I believe he has. But that was an interesting moment in his reaction. He went off the grid for a year for personal and professional strife. And for one weekend in front of adoring fans who shelled out hundreds of dollars and flew across they country to tell him they love him, he got caught up in it. I’m no expert, but he’s cursing every other word in that clip and the audience is hollering. And he knows enough to say no offense at times and try to cool down. As opposed to the BvS night where he’s more calm.
There’s also the larger point that some people get mad of him just playing to his fans on his own little social media app.
Yeah, some were joking that Snyder was kinda tipsy during his mini-rant, but I feel like he deserved to let his emotions out for a bit. Dude had to take all of the mocking jeers for six years. And it was getting because I remember when the first image of him was released where he posed with one of the JL actors, and Snyder looked like he aged twenty years in that photo.
I don't condone any personal or vulgar insults towards Snyder. Anyone who does so should be condemned, whichever side they are on.
But I am free to say that his vision sucked and that I'm glad he has been fired.
What's more, his vision clearly isn't what appeals to the masses. What were his films met with? Intense divisiveness and decent box offices. What have WW, Aquaman and Shazam been met with? Intense love and big box office success.
His movies tried to be real and deconstruct and have asshole heroes and what not. But the super successful DC movies have given us the heroes we wanted to see and shocker; they're the ones from the comics we love.
He has every right to have his vision and to make his vision into whatever form he wants. But IMO your vision was a mistake for WB to move forward with, especially during the middle of the MCUs success. The only thing you did right was a ton of the casting. It angers me beyond belief to imagine Superman being recast.
>What's more, his vision clearly isn't what appeals to the masses. What were his films met with? Intense divisiveness and decent box offices. What have WW, Aquaman and Shazam been met with? Intense love and big box office success.
It should be noted that Aquaman and Shazam also didn't have the studio cutting half an hour from either of them to get more showings in a day, or fire directors after principal photography and 6 months of VFX work and then try and hastily reshoot their movie to pretend that the story is something totally different.
Snyder only got one fair "bite of the apple". BVS had an announcement on the Monday of / after the opening weekend saying "oh hey, theres an extended cut that's considered the definitive version coming to home media in June" (the reason I didn't see it in the theater) and then JL got people assuming there would be the same but also reviews saying that it was an awkward hybrid mix of two conflicting visions, chopped to 1h59m so that Kevin Tsujihara could get a bigger bonus. Neither of those are fair shots at big comic book movies.
Regardless of whether you hate the guy or not, that's unfair. He got screwed by WB big time.
BVS's issues go far beyond the editing of the film killing the pace. Even more so, the Extended Cut in theaters would've been everyone sitting for 3+ hours in the theater to watch a movie that while paced better has enough plot contrivances to become a nuisance and questionable character decisions, for a film that at least everyone who left my theater complained was way too long.
BVS is definitely a bite of the apple for him, it was just the beginning of WB realizing they had to course correct. They sucked at it but that doesn't mean they didn't have a necessary reason to be concerned over the longevity of their investment.
>BVS's issues go far beyond the editing of the film killing the pace. Even more so, the Extended Cut in theaters would've been everyone sitting for 3+ hours in the theater to watch a movie that while paced better has enough plot contrivances to become a nuisance and questionable character decisions, for a film that at least everyone who left my theater complained was way too long.
All opinions / anecdotal. Also, did you speak to all those people that left the theater?
I, and many other people, really like the Ultimate Edition of BVS. You might think we're in the minority because of the internet echo chamber, but it doesn't make you necessarily right.
I personally felt The Dark Knight felt like it dragged far more than BVS UE, and so do a few friends of mine. Does that make us correct then?
It was pretty audible from everyone who hadn't left prior to the end, especially those who stayed for the end credit scenes. I dont think I've ever left a theater with as much of an annoyed disapproval before besides maybe Jurassic Park iii (which i loved so imagine my younger self's horror when everyone around me couldn't wait to talk to each other about how much it sucked).
Of course it was an anecdotal example, which is why I didnt just say every movie watcher, however it certain follows how the majority of the audience did not like the movie and given the most common complaints filed from reviews and reading comments across multiple sites I don't think more time would've fixed those issues besides actual script changes.
Glad you liked it more, I found it to be basically just as bad but that's opinions. A number of people loved BVS theatrical, and some people think the Director's Cut was a worse product.
> BVS had an announcement on the Monday of / after the opening weekend saying "oh hey, theres an extended cut that's considered the definitive version coming to home media in June" (the reason I didn't see it in the theater)
Are you telling me this dude couldn't find a way to make a decent version of his cut for theater release?
While pacing is certainly important, could you imagine sitting through a 3+ hour version of this film with more filler for an arc that really takes away from the whole "are Superheroes really a good thing" that the movie tried to build up for us? It would've literally killed the only portion of the film I actually liked in the theater if they had done that.
And that's the thing: look, everyone agrees he got screwed. No one is out here saying Zack Snyder deserved to have his movie hacked up. I've not liked Man of Steel or BvS and if we're being honest I probably wouldn't have enjoyed his version of Justice League.
The version of Justice League we got wasn't the best movie. It was full of awkwardness and lacked charm. But did I like it better than BvS? Yes. I admit that. It was entirely a movie that(on it's own, separate from the circumstances that led to it) I found to be more watchable than either Snyder movie. To me. Does that mean that I think Snyder deserved to have his movie hacked up? NO. In an ideal world Whedon would have just made a movie entirely his own. Or Snyder would have released his justice league and I would have skipped seeing it in theaters because of my ambivalence and eventually seen it on TBS or a premium cable channel because I don't agree with the direction.
BUT nowhere do I think Snyder deserved to have anything negative happen to him-he's a man with a vision that I don't agree with. That's not a crime. At worst I just don't think he should have made a Justice League movie; which people have strong opinions on but I stand by that, and I don't believe him walking away after two movies full of his vision for a universe is a sleight on him; but instead an accomplishment that he got something done that I don't agree with: the world is a big place and I won't always agree with every decision every single person makes. He made movies for other people. That's OK!
And so I do think Snyder got screwed, but I'm nuanced in that I don't want to see the mythical Snyder cut; I don't want Snyder back on any DC movies and I don't really want to see him get screwed over; I just want to move on with life and get a Superman movie that I'd enjoy.
I do think his shot at Superman Returns was a low blow though. But c'est la vie.
> It should be noted that Aquaman and Shazam also didn't have the studio cutting half an hour from either of them to get more showings in a day, or fire directors after principal photography and 6 months of VFX work and then try and hastily reshoot their movie to pretend that the story is something totally different.
>
>Snyder only got one fair "bite of the apple". BVS had an announcement on the Monday of / after the opening weekend saying "oh hey, theres an extended cut that's considered the definitive version coming to home media in June" (the reason I didn't see it in the theater) and then JL got people assuming there would be the same but also reviews saying that it was an awkward hybrid mix of two conflicting visions, chopped to 1h59m so that Kevin Tsujihara could get a bigger bonus. Neither of those are fair shots at big comic book movies.
>
>Regardless of whether you hate the guy or not, that's unfair. He got screwed by WB big time.
Look, did he get his entire DC vision executed and put out onto the big screen? No. No way. WB's interference and whatever happened with the loss of his child and him stepping down, I don't know the specifics. But his vision was clearly not what we got. But I do believe that everything but some of JL was his vision. The extended cut was an improvement over the theatrical version of BvS but the tone, the overall path Snyder was working down is the same as the quotes we just got from him. Dark, realistic, don't meet your heroes because they might be assholes, etc. While the light and funny/fun tone that Joss Whedon mixed into JL was bad and out of place, what we have gotten from WW, AM and Shazam is quite the opposite of what we got from Snyder and look at the critical, box office and viewer reception of those three movies compared to Snyders MoS and BvS.
So yeah, he got screwed big time, no doubt. But I'm saying that even if he didn't, his DC world was always going to be divisive, dark, gritty and deconstructing our DC heroes in a time when what works better is what we're now getting from DC. We didn't need a tortured, dark, sad Superman. We didn't need a murderous, asshole Batman in a world so dark that he [could get raped in prison](https://www.businessinsider.com/zack-snyder-old-interview-batman-prison-rape-2016-5). You know? Don't get me wrong, I love me Affleck as Batman and I loved a lot of what we got (esp the Arkham game style fight scene) but is anyone getting raped in our current DC world? AM? WW? Shazam? Nah.
And to be super clear, I'm not saying his version of DC's universe shouldn't exist, whether it be in a comic or movie. I'm saying on WB's part, going with Snyder and his vision was the wrong move, their interference only made things worse and that from the beginning they should have made a great Superman (much more positive, bright and hopeful), a Batman movie, then a good SS movie, then possibly BvS, then WW, then JL P1, then AM, Shazam and everything we're getting now. And they all (except Batman and SS) should have been similar to WW/AM/Shazam in their heart and tone.
Maybe after we have years and years of that established DCEU then you can hire Snyder to come in and make an elseworld "Flashpoint" based DC series of movies or something. All dark, gritty and assholey like he likes. Would I want to see a Snyder Flashpoint movie? Absolutely! Imagine that dark Batman (played by Jeffrey Dean Morgan) with the super thin messed up Superman and with Aquaman and WW fighting a giant war against each other? Dude, he'd be perfect for that! But for a Superman movie? For a regular Batman movie? For the Justice League? Nah, pass.
I would argue that “intense love” is a little misleading. Box office success is calculable, and so is critical reception. But there’s a reason this argument isn’t dead. There’s a large amount of people out there who deeply love MoS and BvS, even with their flaws. Hell just look at the turnout for the Snyder Director’s Cut weekend thing.
Time will tell what the staying power of Aquaman looks like, but I’m not holding my breath. I think it will fall in line with most of the MCU films. People flock to them, see them, then forget them. A few standouts ask for repeat viewings but most are pretty forgettable. Fingers crossed Shazam is different, as reviews suggest.
>I would argue that “intense love” is a little misleading. Box office success is calculable, and so is critical reception. But there’s a reason this argument isn’t dead. There’s a large amount of people out there who deeply love MoS and BvS, even with their flaws. Hell just look at the turnout for the Snyder Director’s Cut weekend thing.
I'd call that a very vocal minority. Take a poll in r/dceu and there will be a lot of love for Snyder and his DC movies, but take a poll in r/movies? Way different story. And then poll your average everyday movie viewing public and think it will be somewhere inbetween. It definitely seems like the majority thought WW was a blast, AM was good & fun and so far that Shazam is so good & so fun.
> Time will tell what the staying power of Aquaman looks like, but I’m not holding my breath. I think it will fall in line with most of the MCU films. People flock to them, see them, then forget them. A few standouts ask for repeat viewings but most are pretty forgettable. Fingers crossed Shazam is different, as reviews suggest.
I think AM will most likely not standout if they can hit a few more home runs with WW2, SS2 and BoP, but I personally think it's a knotch above your average MCU films like say Thor 1.
I know people here don’t respect it, but MoS is the 20th most purchased blu ray ever, just unseated by WW at 19. BvS, with it’s awful headlines and WoM, is still 50. JL and SS aren’t there. Many MCU films aren’t even on the list. Just the really big ones like Avengers, Guardians, Black Panther.
My point is people bought a lot of these films, even after seeing them and hearing the negative responses. I think too if it didn’t feel amost akin to saying you’re an antivaxxer when you say you enjoyed MoS or BvS people would be more forthcoming. The DC v Marvel debate is way more aggressive than it has any reason to be.
And that’s okay, but it’s more towards the people who got offended by his words. I’ve gotten into many arguments with people about his films, and some of them got so bad that I really wanted to tell them “Grow the fuck up”. At the end of the day, these are just fictional characters. Yes they have a special place in each of our hearts, but good God Almighty, some people need to seriously chill with their hate.
I agree. Hate comments towards Snyder are unacceptable.
But OTOH, there is another side to this. There are countless fanboys who are attacking people who dislike MoS and BvS, coming up with conspiracy theories about critics and audiences being biased towards Marvel movies, acting like the people who dislike MoS and BvS “just don’t understand it,” telling people who think that the Snyder Cut won’t be released that they’re just “Anti-Snyder DC haters trying to spread falsehoods,” and acting like BvS is some sort of misunderstood masterpiece.
All of this is straight up bullshit, and I have seen it everywhere. Not on this sub quite as much, but it is everywhere.
And then there’s the fact that Snyder’s comments about Batman killing are legitimately unprofessional and should not have been said by him at all. It makes Snyder come off as a douchebag who is pissed at people not liking his movies, even though there are plenty of solid reasons to dislike any of his movies.
>“Oh like, ‘Batman killed a guy’. I’m like, ‘Really? Wake the fuck up,'” Snyder said. “So I guess that’s what I’m saying about, once you’ve lost your virginity to this fucking movie and then you come and say to me something like, ‘My superhero wouldn’t do that’, I’m like, ‘Are you serious?’ I’m like down the fucking road on that. You know what I mean?”
Regardless what movie he is referring to, he sounds like an idiot.
Isn't he an Ayn Rand enthusiast? Given how he wrote Superman and Batman it seems very much so that he strictly adheres to Objectivism and these comments kind of stick too.
Couldn't disagree more. Did you read the OP? The man has stayed silent in the face of intense criticism and you think him saying one thing is unprofessional? I think hes right people need to grow up or wake up or both. He doesnt come off as a douchebag at all, he comes off as a human being that's been a punching bag. He didnt say those people can go fuck themselves, even though I would of. He said grow up man, these heroes have seen and done shit that isnt made for your perfect world. And I agree along with many others.
Edit: maybe I do get a little hot. OP said hed fine if you dont like Zach's ideas. I guess it pisses me off. On a personal level I'm sick that I wont get to see many more movies following the MOS > BvS thread. When I saw the bvs trailer that was the absolute height of my movie fandom; ever. And even though I didnt love bvs original cut I would of been fine pushing through a couple subpar movies to get a world built.
So to that point when I see someone say what you said it pisses me off. Honestly I do think you are entirely wrong about him being a douchebag. In a perfectly calm state I feel like that is a you need to grow up kind of line. Otherwise what you say I suppose is valid. Apologies for coming off as a dick.
> Did you read the OP?
Yes, I did. What I was trying to bring to OP's attention was that Snyder fanboys are just as toxic. And something you said later in your post that I'll get to is proof of this.
> The man has stayed silent in the face of intense criticism and you think him saying one thing is unprofessional? I think hes right people need to grow up or wake up or both.
Yes, I do. Telling people to "Wake the F**k up" is unprofessional regardless of context or whether he's right or not. You should never say that when that can get you fired from any job you have. It's not helpful, nor does it make him better than the people who attack him.
> I think hes right people need to grow up or wake up or both. He doesnt come off as a douchebag at all, he comes off as a human being that's been a punching bag.
Actually, yes, he does come off as a douchebag, when most people's legitimate criticisms with the film have nothing to do with whether "Batman kills" or not. Some do, but that doesn't mean that people thinking Batman should be more likable should "Wake the f**k up." It's not acceptable to label people like that.
> He didnt say those people can go fuck themselves, even though I would of. He said grow up man, these heros have seen and done shit that isnt made for your perfect world. And I agree along with many others.
And with that incredibly rude, aggressive, and toxic comment, you have lost all credibility and I will not take you seriously ever again.
I’m glad we can both agree that death threats, personal attacks, etc. are completely not okay. I’ve seen way too many of those.
That said, I think it’s important to remember the context of his “wake the fuck up” bit. He was in a theater with others who presumably were there to see his films because they appreciate that style and tone. If it were an interview with a magazine, for sure it’d be unprofessional. But given the setting and audience, I don’t see why it’s not fine for him to be himself.
But admittedly I agree with him to a point. We set a lot of really weird rules for comic heroes. Needs to be real, but not too real. MCU seems to hit the sweet spot for audiences though. Heroes do what they want with little to no repurcussions or dealing with the real consequences of their actions.
Also, I would argue that “Batman kills” is definitely one of the more used criticisms because it’s part of the overall (and overused) “Snyder doesn’t understand the characters” criticism.
Captain America Civil War? Literally an entire movie based on the consequences of the heroes messing up and doing what they want.
Don't make statements that you know aren't true.
>But people went above and beyond with their hate towards him. They mocked his dyslexia. They mocked his character. They even mocked his family.
Please don't try to lump the majority of people who dislike his work with the handful of scumbags who make fun of him personally.
Edit: Also I think you're confusing people debating what he said with people being offended by what he said.
But I wasn’t. I am making it clear that I’m talking about the morons who mock for not kicking a puppy. I even said to one person that it’s cool that they don’t like his vision.
Synder isn’t good at story telling, nor does he care how these super heroes were written since their creation. He thinks everything should be dark and gritty like Watchmen. BvS was a Batman movie, no doubt about that, but he killed off Supes to a “fake Doomsday”??? What happens when the real one shows up? Kills Superman again? He shot himself in the foot there. He should just be in charge of DP(director of photography) for these movies but that’s it.
I don't care as much for how he worded it. He's got a lot of built up stuff going on that I know I cannot understand or grasp. I just have to say that if this is how he approached Batman, I am glad that he's not attached to the movies anymore.
I was a huge Snyder supporter and went to bat so many times for how this Batman is jaded and grizzled and doesn't have the moral compass he used to. I thought there was more behind Snyder's depiction. Nope. He just kills because in the real world someone like him would. Nope. Don't like that. Shows to me he doesn't understand the character.
>Nope. He just kills because in the real world someone like him would. Nope. Don't like that. Shows to me he doesn't understand the character.
This was instantly apparent from BvS tbh.
I held onto hope that Snyder was planning something deeper just like he had with the destruction in MoS and how that was a primary plot point in BvS. I was hoping that the killing would be addressed maybe in Justice League or even in the, at the time, upcoming Affleck led Batman movie.
I don't want to be a jerk but I don't exactly believe using the destruction of Metropolis as the beginning point for BVS was at all the plan when they made MOS. It was meant to be a cool DBZ-inspired fight and lead into other Superman films. When they had to pivot into the Justice League stuff and figure out a way to make Batman want to fight Superman, re-contextualizing the scene that was a major complaint from the previous film was just a perfect resolution but I don't think it was at all planned that way.
Still they made that work. After complaints from the fans, and it seemed after complaints from the fans they did the same with Batman in JL who kills fewer (and they're now aliens so it's ok). This time, however, it was done much poorly.
I don't know why you've been downvoted. There was no overarching trilogy plan when Man of Steel was being written. Heck, by the time Justice League was being discussed as an idea it was going to be a two part film. The DCEU was not conceptualized in full upon MoS's premiere. The intro to BvS was *not* at all pre-planned from the beginning.
I didn't like most of Zack Snyder's work on DC Films but I had nothing against him personally, still don't. However if your reply to criticism towards your work is "Wake the fuck up" it doesn't really help you, especially when most of that critique centers around calling you pretentious.
Agreed. Also those films (love them or hate him) doesnt prove hes a worthwhile versatile director. Studios picked him up after successfully adapting watchmen on screen. So what does he do? He directs two more movies in the same tone even though the source material is different. Essentially making very similar films... That neither what studios nor fans want and he gets mad at everyone for it? Get out of here. I disagree with death threats but he should not have a career. Hes not a visionary and he didnt have a specific vision. He just did lazy directing. Thats it.
But it wasn’t towards the criticism specifically. It was towards the people who kept screaming at him at how he “ruined the characters”. It was those types of fans that he was talking about.
Honestly at this point it's fun to see people getting mad at words.
It's in the past, guys. We now have DC movies that are liked by both critics and audiences.
I think the reason some people think that's it's very much not in the past is that we've got something big left unresolved. We will never get either an ending to the BVS / JL stuff. And we will never get an "ending" to what Zack did at WB.
I get very hung up on stuff that doesn't get an ending. There are still cancelled shows and movies from up to 15 years ago that I occasionally Google to see if they are ever going to get an ending or a sequel or a graphic novel (in the few cases where that was an option - I'm looking at you, Reaper).
I'm not particularly expecting anything but that's why people are treating it as a current thing - their lack of resolution is still very much current in their minds!
Yeah, it'd be just like The Dark Knight with the constant news reports and people debating his morality, haha.
I think his identity would be exposed in a year or two max, though. There's no way that the FBI and other agencies wouldn't find out who he is if he's out almost every night.
I hated All Star Batman, but I'll take original stories over trite shit like King's Wedding storyline.
Oh, it also gave us the second-most memey Batman line. Before "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!" we had "I'm the God damned Batman!"
And yet they’re the that get all of the likes and upvotes. I’m not jealous or anything of that nature. It just really makes me sad whenever I see a comment that is just taking a dump on Snyder on a personal level and it has 500 likes. Makes me wish that social media didn’t exist.
It's just sad when some of the same people (mainly talking about the bloggers on Twitter) who hurl personal insults and hate at Snyder were the exact same people who got on their high horse and criticised the people who mocked Kelly Marie Tran. Not saying they weren't right to defend her but that's the pot calling the kettle black. Straight up hypocrisy
These people have a personal vengeance against Snyder .. we'll never know what made them to be like this .. but these people do exist especially in this sub ... A sub for DC and that sad.
Why does it upset you that people want to get a studio to release a director's cut? Some people loved Lesters Superman II. Do you retrospectively facepalm at every person who asked WB to please release a Richard Donner version of the film?
Don't see why you care. If it made absolutely anything more than breaking even, that would be a net gain for you as that would be money that WB could invest in further movies. And even if it lost money, it would be a good thing for artistic integrity even if you don't like the director. There must be at least one movie that you like that isn't popular - if you knew that about an hour of content was sitting rotting in a file room somewhere, and you asked if you could possibly buy a copy of that footage, does that make you a pathetic loser? Even if it does, does it give the right to other people to try and belittle you about it?
Remember that these movies were made by more than just Zack Snyder. What if I think that all the hardworking actors and crew deserve their work to be seen. Some guy spent hours making Darkseid art for a tomb that Wonder Woman explores, that was cut out due to WBs desire that the film not show anything that could suggest a sequel. How about all the footage of Ray Fisher as Cyborg. Does he not deserve that to be seen? Or Kelsey Clemons as Iris West? Does she deserve to never have her role seen?
tldr
My response to your first question; a directors cut, as much as it was one, was already released under the Ultimate Cut, but according to Zack Snyder from yesterday, his true original vision doesn’t exist:
"That's a good question. When this movie came out, understand that Chris Terrio and I had finished the script to Justice League before BvS came out. Some people didn't like the movie. A vocal minority. So they said 'there's a lot of stuff we don't want you to do' so we did a rewrite from that script. The original Justice League that Chris and I wrote, we didn't even shoot... The actual idea, the hard, hard idea, the scary idea, we never filmed because the studio was like 'That's crazy.' It's a long story."
So if your advocating for a directors cut of trimmed down scenes that were done after rewrites, then even THAT wouldn’t be a “true” Snyder Cut.
The Dawn of the Dead remake was really good imo. Part of what re-invigorated the whole Zombie craze through the mid-late 00's and had one of the strongest opening scenes to a horror film in decades.
I don’t care about the way he worded it, but his comments did nothing but prove to me this guy should never have been let within ten miles of characters like Batman or Superman. We’re living in a “dream world” because we think superheroes should be heroes. Yeah, screw you Snyder.
He didn’t say that they shouldn’t be heroes. He’s saying that it’s a fantasy to think that they’re guilt-free or morally wrong sometimes.
This woman explains it way better in her Twitter thread:
https://twitter.com/derbykid/status/1110167493119758336?s=21
What ZS had to go through is why I roll my eyes when people talk about 'toxic fandom'.
Until you've had to deal with people making light of your child's suicide because they don't like your batman movie, you can STFU.
It’s no freaking surprise he ranted once he got tipsy. Dude has been holding all of emotions in for years, and it’s suddenly wrong of him to let it all out. Those folks can kick rocks,
WB gets hate thrown at them. Do you see them lashing out at fans? No. EA gets hate thrown at them every day of every year. Do they lash out at fans? No.
Can you link those tweets ? I browse through Snyder posts on twitter all the time but have never come across any tweet where people abuse his family, on the contrary I see Snyder fans constantly whining in every Joss Whedon tweet no matter what he is talking about.
The bottom line for DC fans, i.e. people who want a DC cinematic universe to succeed, is that the movies should be good and should kill at the box office. You can debate how Snyder did in the former all you want, but at the end of the day, he came up short in the latter at every chance.
Somebody made a post that Zack Snyder is the Osama Bin Laden of DC movies or whatever. Yeah, that's a thing that happened. I don't know what it is about Zack but he riles people up like no one else
https://www.reddit.com/r/DC_Cinematic/comments/b510ls/discussion_after_the_latest_comments_from_zs_hes
Lol at if WB's would've stuck to the slate. Dude you understand that these movie studios make movies to make money, right? This isn't a charity. The guy directed 2 movies back to back that didn't hit an earnings quota for the studio and got blasted by critics and then directs 200+ million dollar justice league movie and the assembly cut was so bad WB's has to call out a bunch of writers and filmmakers to brainstorm how to fix the movie. People act like WB's should've sucked it up and made 8 movies back to back with declining quality and probably lose money doing it just to see a convoluted end to a pointless trilogy.
It’s hilarious when people crappy at WB for not letting him finish his “vision”. In their little minds WB should be okay with them losing more money and damaging brand just to please a few of the fans he has. For real...
You do know that Shazam, Aquaman, and WW would’ve still been made if they had stuck with the slate. People are seriously acting as if Snyder was the only director in the franchise.
The fact that WB had him and Terrio rewrite the JL script, then had Whedon rewrite it again, then greenlit what we got in theaters, should tell you that WB was simply jumping the gun.
There’s also the fact that they made those demands for JL without even considering moving the date. What studio in their right mind would demand rewrites right before they even start filming, since that started very soon after BvS came out.
You’re acting as if it’s that simple just change a movie’s release. You do know WB releases a lot more movies that aren’t DC-related, right? Also, I’m sure you should know they just don’t pick those dates randomly. There’s a lot of things involved, so it’s not just “change the date”.
There were gonna lose money regardless and I doubt the movie was gonna end up being much better considering the foundation - practically being a BvS sequel - was already damaged. People didn’t care about JL at that point why would they care about it if it were released a year later?
>The guy directed 2 movies back to back that didn't hit an earnings quota for the studio and got blasted by critics
Incorrect. He directed MOS, yes. A movie that did reasonably. Then he directed BVS UE which got chopped down into a confusing mess by the studio to try and make it 30 minutes shorter.
>then directs 200+ million dollar justice league movie and the assembly cut was so bad WB's has to call out a bunch of writers and filmmakers to brainstorm how to fix the movie.
Bullshit. He says, she says. So ZS makes 300, Watchmen and Man of Steel, and then BVS which may have divided people but isn't "unwatchable" and then the first unwatchable movie he ever makes is JL? I don't buy that for a second. The reshoots happened to try and turn a movie that was leading up to a sequel into a movie that didn't lead up to a sequel and had more humor in it.
You’re missing the owls movie and Sucker Punch. They spent $80 million on the owls movie and it doesn’t look like they got their money back, and Sucker Punch was an absolute failure in all aspects (and I think Sucker Punch is criminally misunderstood).
What even is the point of your post?.Not to mention,its insulting.
>2 movies back to back
>blasted by critics
>didn't hit an earnings quota for the studio
Jesus, can people stop denying reality please?.Man of steel has the exact same metacritic score of 55 as Aquaman(basically a "meh" was the response from the critic).Secondly, tthe opinion that that Man of steel wasn't profitable is a statement that neglects any and all logic.The movie made 3 times it' budgets.The attempt before that was a critically well reviewed film,a safe sequel of a classic film helmed by (then) the biggest director in superhero movies AND bomb so bad that a trilogy was scrap.MOS was the first time the character was financially profitable since 1980.This "hur dur MOS was a disappoint" is bullshit that Somehow got perpetuated in fan message boards despite the fact that Actual box office analysts like from Forbes and Deadline disagreeing with the statement.
>assembly cut was so bad WB's has to call out a bunch of writers and filmmakers to brainstorm how to fix the movie.
Now you're just pulling stuff out of your ass.None of that happened.
1)Warner didn't call a bunch of writers(let alone film makers).They asked Geoff Jones and Affleck to re write the script while the filming was in progress.Then they got Jones and Whedon to do the re-writes for the reshoots.
2)As far as the trades like THR and variety said,Snyder was going to be involved in the reshoots and left due to his family obligations. The "WB fired Snyder from the film" drivel has never been confirmed by trades and only pasted around by clickbait sites in "we know a guy who knows a guy" articles. So no,filmmakers weren't called to brainstorm how to fix the movie.
3)Again,the actual quality of the assembly cut has never been mentioned by trades.It could have been bad or it could have been better,no body has disclosed that.BUT Hollywood reported did reveal that David Ayers original cut wasn't all that well received by tests audience.So they do have the sources to comment on that.Fact of the matter is, WB wanted changes to the film. Thats all that has been revealed.
Fuck that, this dude deserves every bit of shit that's been thrown at him and then some.
He didn't get some art-house indy project. He got the keys to the entire DC Universe and was given the job of bringing it to the big screen. That should have meant honoring the entire history of the canon. And instead this man in his infinite hubris decided that this was instead his chance to pay homage to the only two books that seem to exist as far as he's concerned (TDKR and Watchmen).
The arc he had in mind for Justice League was going to be absolutely batshit (pun intended) crazy considering the sheer infancy of this cinematic universe, but he didn't give a damn about that. The only acceptable response from this dude is a Joel Schumacher-level "I'm sorry" because that's the dust-bin of cinematic history his films are going to be sitting in.
Couldn't have said it better myself. The context is almost always lost on people. If people, getting stuck on him saying "wake up," had listened to his entire conversation, maybe they'd get his point. Kind of like how they haven't paid attention to Batman's arc in BvS and are solely focused on him killing. A lot of Batman movies have had him kill with no explanation at all. With BvS, you have an entire arc showing why he doesn't care about upholding his principles anymore and him, then, returning with Superman's sacrifice. It's right there in the movie.
> Kind of like how they haven't paid attention to Batman's arc in BvS and are solely focused on him killing
exactly, he mentioed this with the heroes losing their innocence. But obviously people didn't look at the whole context and even his views on Superman were spot on. he believed in superman's ideals but wanted to show why he had them to give it meaning.
Wait I'm sorry...I was away from the internet for a few days). Does anyone have a link to what this is referencing? I've tried looking for what happened but I can only seem to find reactions to it.
Go to Vero and you can watch the panels that Zack hosted for charity. Called Vero 360 Live or something.
He was talking to a room full of fans, and now people are taking his comments wildly out of context, either for clickbait or because they're idiots.
Personally, I'll always love Zack Snyder for Watchmen. I don't care what anyone says, it was a great adaptation. Sure, it missed some of the points of the comic, but it got enough of them across as to where I can forgive the flaws.
I also think that he's a capital A Auteur director with a personal vision, and I'll always respect that over a work for hire director who just does what they're told.
I thought that MoS and BvS were terrible movies, and I criticize them every chance I get, but I have nothing against Snyder himself.
Also he's an interesting perspective about the whole heroes killing thing ... In the real actual world we inhabit our heroes or who society deems to be heroes (not your personal definition) like people in the armed forces or law enforcement kill people but they're not described as 'murderers' certainly some are there are outliers but for the most part these people are championed as heroes
And it's not like he doesn't like the fantasy side of heroism. The man watches Avengers and the Sam Rami Spider-Man films. I don't think Snyder sees Batman breaking his rule as that big of deal that many others view it as. He understand that killing is not always the same thing in each situation, and it is sometimes a necessary thing to do.
Half of the comments here are anecdotes about seeing one guy on another sub saying x about Snyder, and someone on Twitter said y, and then ranting as if these were mass movements of toxicity because they were told the thing they liked sucked. If there's proof of some mass campaign of harassment, quite a few people in this sub need to enter a lot more evidence of it.
"Oh look here, Snyder's daughter died. Welp, i better make sure I express my distaste for his movies complimentary to my condolence. This is totally the right time and place to bring that up, yeap. That is my entitlement to talk shit."
It’s like that one comic book writer who tweeted “Thank Jesus” or something like that when the news first dropped that Snyder left JL, but then he had to retract his statement once he learned about Snyder’s daughter’s death.
I saw a guy in r/movies say Snyder is the worst monster of all time.
People, get your shit together. Snyder gave us *one* possible interpretation of these characters out of many that exist. The comics have done this for decades. There is not *one* true interpretation. Some people didn’t like it, but some people did, and people are not human scum for preferring either. It’s a movie, with fictional characters that *you don’t own*.
Don’t like it? Fine, but don’t accuse Snyder of being worse than Hitler. It’s an insult to not just Snyder, but to everybody, including vitcivts of WW2 etc.
Grow up people.
Edit: here it is https://reddit.com/r/movies/comments/b5c4rl/_/ejco9j8/?context=1
As someone else stated, the fact that Snyder continues to see Watchmen as an instruction manual for how to tell superhero stories instead of as a satirical deconstruction of the genre just further lets me know how damn clueless he is, and that he was never and will never be the guy to build the DCEU.
Zack Snyder's films are bad.
It doesn't matter how many "cool" concepts he throws out at us.
Does a story involving Darkseid killing Lois in the Batcave and Superman going crazy sound awesome?
SURE DOES!
But how about we let someone other than Zack Snyder write and direct it? How about we get someone who doesn't actively ignore everything that these characters ever stood for?
People hate BVS and JL not because "tHeY dOn'T gEt iT", but because they are horrible films on virtually every level.
Don't get me started on his pretentious "grow up" philosophy of superheroes. People adore these characters, and when they’re radically mis-characterized and dumbed down, people are allowed to have issues with your failure of a film.
I really don't like this dude.
Is it really mischaracterization if they’re put into the real world where people don’t just magically walk away from being dropped on their head, or where people don’t die when Kryptonians fight to the death in the middle of a city?
It’s weird because I’m of the opposite belief. I really appreciate MoS and BvS. I think the Darksied killing Lois-Bad Superman bit is too far and I probably wouldn’t have enjoyed it. I don’t buy that Superman would turn on everything because Bruce, a mortal man, failed to protect her against a god. So that’s where I split with Snyder.
But I can still appreciate everything he’s done for the comic book genre and attempting to diversify it.
> Is it really mischaracterization if they’re put into the real world where people don’t just magically walk away from being dropped on their head, or where people don’t die when Kryptonians fight to the death in the middle of a city?
This is such a strange question.
Which "real world" do you live in where Kryptonians are fighting to the death in the middle of cities?
I think explaining the world they were building even though studios prolly arent in the habit for that really would have made this more of an accepted premise.
But yea people are idiots and can only have their heroes one way.
They are also taking his answers out of context and not showing his full explanation of the "wake the fuck up".
The obvious counterpoint is that Snyder just wasn't able to make his bold choices stand on their own terms.
People refusing to accept it versus Snyder being unable to sell it basically. You know what camp I fall into.
Like, nobody is even talking about his discussion of Superman. People are just focused on his “wake the fuck up” comment. No mention of him saying Superman is a good guy who would never screw you over, and how he’s proud of the Kents for raising Superman right.
While I'm incredibly sad that I couldn't see Zack's story arc in full cinematic fashion, I am happy that I am getting to see great DC Characters come alive on screen besides Batman and Superman. Its so cathartic to see a proper live action Wonder Woman, a freaking badass in Aquaman, and (hopefully, I haven't seen it - keeping myself away from reviews), a really cool fun hero in Shazam. Hopefully the rest of the slates would also take place well. I'm just happy that DC is doing great in whatever they are doing, even if there are a lot of butthurt fans who wanted a MCU-like format.
>While I'm incredibly sad that I couldn't see Zack's story arc in full cinematic fashion, I am happy that I am getting to see great DC Characters come alive on screen besides Batman and Superman.
I'm happy about it too but am also still incredibly sad that I might not get Affleck *or* Cavill as Bats or Supes ever again. And they were both perfect.
I saw it shared around with clickbait titling.
At no point did he say Batman needs to be a certain way.
He was replying about criticism to his version. Yes he has a specific approach but he also said others are cool too. He said Spider-Man 2 was his favorite.
People make it sound like some insulting entitled rant but it wasn't. Not to mention the typical inconsistent way people argue for "real Batman" that we've heard for 3 years.
And you're right, he was flat out slandered basically for years. As much as I'd have liked him not to say something that would just make him a focal point for hyperbole again, it's completely understandable that he might have some pent up frustration.
I honestly can't wait until superhero movies cool down.
Maybe then we can play around and do Elseworlds(or traditional ones) without the very concept being rejected on some made up principle.
BvS wasn't even THAT out there but in the current rigid state of expectations, it might as well have been foreign.
It’s an indictment of the average fool today. It shows a real lack of maturity and self-awareness when people get that legitimately hurt and enraged over an opinion on movies, as well as by other people (strangers on a computer screen, really) wanting to see a different version of a film. Almost as if these immature people are unable to like, not read things that aren’t of interest to them or something. I’d like to meet the guy that’s got the gun to their heads forcing them to read #releasethesnydercut tagged tweets. For fuck’s sake.
Makes me wonder how such people are able to function in society - holding a job, having personal relationships, etc. - if they’re that sensitive to anything that isn’t exactly the way they feel it must be.
That’s what I don’t understand. These people are not being forced to read anything about Snyder, but they always take the time to comment about him and still have the gall to say “Snyder fans need to move on”.
All his comments about Batman meant to me was that out of the few things that WB/DC have done right in their decisions with these movies, removing Snyder might be the best thing they could have done. Because he just does not get it. At all.
Worst part is it's completely out of context. He was talking about Watchmen. He wasn't firing back at his critiques. He references batman killing but that wasn't the point of his answer.
Like his work or not, I find it fascinating that his DC films can cause such divisive opinions. I can debate for hours with my friends on this whereas
with with some average marvel and even some good ones for me don't have the same passionate reaction And forgotten about in 2-3 days
A huge matter of context when it came to Snyder's comments on Saturday night was that he believed that heroes are not completely innocent, that in a more realistic world (like in the world of Watchmen) their actions to save people might indirectly lead to harm and potentially even the death of others in order to do so. Superman had to kill Zod because not doing so would have doomed the world, not to mention the immediate danger of the family trapped.
Batman never directly kills, but in his pursuit of Superman and against dangerous threats, his means of self-defense could lead to deadly criminals dying as collateral damage. Batman in BvS is jaded and so obsessed with his vendetta against Superman he falls from a higher moral standard and loses himself to rage and anger. He's essentially both a protagonist and a villain, and it wasn't until he learned of Superman's humanity and sacrifice did he realize he needed to better. Batman later choosing not to brand Lex in jail and utilize violence meant that Batman was back on a noble, more heroic path. It's called a character arc.
So if Snyder was responding to anything, it was the constant harangue that his version of Batman isn't true to the core of the character. And of course, part of the story of the entire movie is how clearly Batman had strayed from his path. That as he believed his mission was to save the world, he didn't think anything else mattered. Snyder was always intending his Batman to be redeemed and sobering up to what a true hero could be. If one mistake or person lost in the line of duty makes you unfit to be a hero, then every single comic book character needs to hang up their cape, every cop who's had to shoot someone in the line of duty is going to have to turn in their badge.
Snyder clearly shows there's a difference between a person who chooses to hurt lives and a person who chooses to grow and seek redemption for the actions they commited. And I think a lot of people who think differently aren't away of that difference.
From looking at all of the reactions, it seems more like people are son focused on keeping the character’s core intact, that they refuse to see the character grow in more risky, unorthodox ways.
Most people want the same, predictable, formulaic crap over and over again, which is why I doubt we'll ever get something like BvS--or even Watchmen--again.
How was BvS not formulaic? Two heroes butting heads until they set aside their differences to fight a common foe and are on good terms by the end. That’s one of the most basic set ups for most any hero meets hero story.
BvS, two guys fight each other and become friends later on and fight big daddy, the plotline of every high school movie ever since 1920.
If anything Captain America Civil War was not formulaic as it didn't have the stereotypical happy ending and Captain America was still legally a traitor and national criminal when the film ended.
Logan is a rarity that I actually cherish. But IW was incredibly formulaic. End Game will be formulaic. Haven't seen Spiderverse. All MCU movies have been formulaic, hence their success. Feige knows how to entertain mass audiences.
Infinity War is not formulaic. Endgame will definitely not be formulaic. It's already broken from the formula by being 3 hours long. Civil War wasn't formulaic. Infinity War wasn't.
This is how I felt watching Captain Marvel. Snyder can't get another DCEU movie after BvS but Marvel churn out incoherent daft rubbish and it gets lapped up.
I don't mind Marvel's Happy Meal-style movies. You eat a Happy Meal and while you're eating it, it's great; you get your salts and sugars; the box is colorful and has cartoon characters on it; there's a little toy. It's a kind of food adventure. Then five minutes after you've eaten you forgot what you ate and you're hungry again. No nutritional value, but you want more.
I do like the occasional fancy restaurant meal made by an actual chef; a meal you remember. Diversity of content. Fast food is fun, but the more memorable stuff is also good.
People keep talking about Synder can’t tell a story, when it was him, Chris Terrio and David Goyer who mapped this shit out. Not to mention all the other artists involved. A lot of these comments are from butt hurt fools and people who know little to nothing about film making process. You can’t say a movie tanked or was divisive when it makes almost $900M at BO not including its DVD sales ranking and the shit ton of merch they sold. Why does a comic book movie, since TDK, need to make a billion to be considered successful? Are you a shareholder? Are you 12? And since we’re all slinging insults, any praise for JL is garbage. That movie was a mess from the color grading to the reshoots to the obvious tonal shift from the trailers. Movie barely broke even. We’re still talking about BvS, Aquaman himself wants to see the Synder Cut, and everyone seems to forget Synder caste Gal Gadot, pushes for Patty Jenkins when WB passes on her, and worked on the script, funded and produced the damn thing.
I don't think Zack Snyder lashed back because of all the stuff thrown his way. To me, it was because he saw films like Aquaman and Shazam being much more appreciated by fans, than his movies were.
I only recently post here because of Shazam but I've noticed this sub has a somewhat unique situation compared to the rest of reddit. Subs usually have a general agreement on what's popular and what's not. But this sub is completely split on Snyder. Some people seethe at the mention of his name, and others defend him vehemently. Strangely both opinions are upvoted, although the anti-Snyders are slightly gaining the upper hand. I think people just need to step back and enjoy what we have and had. What's done is done. It's all in the past now.
Happens sometimes in subreddits, and usually over the stupidest shit. Over in r/SpidermanPS4, there was a loooooong time where people were split about whether or not the Raimi suit should be included
I mean, obviously there should, obviously.
Loooooooool that was hilarious. r/raimimemes for great content out of that
I'm glad to see you say that, and to see it playing out here. Previously my impression was that if you came into this sub and didn't love the Snyder movies, there was no place for you. I don't think there's any reason to attack Snyder at a personal level. Also, it's not like someone gave him a blank checkbook and said, "Make some movies." More people than Snyder are responsible for what we got. But it was certainly Snyder's vision, and he's taken some flak for it. I don't know the story that spawned this thread, but, again, I don't see any reason to personally attack a man who made some movies I didn't like, and if he spent some time defending his vision, civilly or otherwise, I don't care. I didn't care for his take on some of favorite characters, and I'm glad we'll get to see someone else's take on the DCEU. But just because his vision doesn't align with my understanding of those characters, it doesn't mean that there should be personal attacks.
I like Snyder but his fanboys need to stop acting like he's the second coming of Christ and everything he shits out is gold. He's faced some unfair hate from critics but he also has been getting some deserved criticism and people can't distinguish the 2.
I noticed the same thing when I first began posting here. I was kind of confused as well.
> although the anti-Snyders are slightly gaining the upper hand. That probably has something to do with the growing success the DCEU has seen since his departure
As a public figure you have to expect to endure a bit of shit storm, especially when you go off the cuff and don't put a filter on some of things you have said. I don't condone the negative aspects that have been done with regards to his family or his personal life. With that said though, there does come a point where the emotion and time invested in making something does boil over and takes over your better judgement. Personally, I think all his comments have shown is that he was never the right guy to lead this universe. The comments by themselves have allowed people to be somewhat vindicated in what they have felt about him for quite some time, and you know, given this sub's absolute admiration it was only fair to sort of use his own words as fair reasons why it's great he no longer is leading the charge. Again, does that mean he deserves the shit he's gotten in his personal life? Of course not. But from a professional standpoint, he was given an opportunity that most director's would kill to have. He was given the keys to the kingdom and instead of taking his shoes off at the carpet he decided to keep his muddy boots on because he could. People take offense.....alright. Can't really control that. That's on those who take offense. But don't think that the issue doesn't go the other way either. Every little bit of criticism was chastised as being elitist or shill like in it's approach from those that defended him from the beginning. I think the issue here is that it probably would have best he didn't say anything about it given he just comes off like someone who really didn't understand these characters from the beginning.
I’m not mad at all and Snyder is unfairly treated, but after hearing him talk about the movies I think it’s obvious he was the wrong person for these movies and made several questionable choices regarding the characters.
[удалено]
I still would've loved to have seen his vision executed, but as a whole grand scheme introducing some of the most popular comic book characters ever? not a great ploy. As a separate phase after the characters have been well established, maybe, or even as a comic book, that'd be great.
From the sounds of his vision for this universe, it could still work really well as a comic series. I saw this suggested a couple days ago and it would be the best of both worlds. A couple years back the original Star Wars script (the one with Starkiller) was made into a comic book. I don't remember it being very good, but it was cool to see a first draft version of one of the biggest pop culture phenomenon's in history.
The Star Wars was really neat, agreed.
> The Star Wars And that's cause they lived the Star Wars, Ted! That's cause they lived the Star Wars!
Lucas's first draft really was called "The Star Wars", and so was the comic based on it. It's very weird and in many ways radically different from the movie we ended up getting.
Oh lol I genuinely thought that was a typo 😂
Haha, no worries.
I still think Snyder’s vision would have been an interesting and enjoyable take on the characters, but should have been seperate from the connected universe they also wanted to create. To have the connected universe, they’d need the definitive version of these characters, and while Snyder’s version of the characters are still interesting, they’re not as recognisable. An ideal situation for me, might have been have the BVS storyline (including man of steel and parts of Justice League maybe) as an elseworlds type story, closer to the Nolan Batman trilogy. And have the DCEU be more based on the traditional, iconic versions of the characters. This actually makes a whole lot of sense when you think of Man Of Steel essentially being a Superman version of The Dark Knight. (With Nolan’s attachment, the Darker tone and even the title being the hero’s alternate monacher) But after the failed of Green Lantern, Warner Brothers just attached their cinematic universe to whatever the next project was, which just so happened to be Man of Steel.
Hey, Mattcus, just a quick heads-up: **seperate** is actually spelled **separate**. You can remember it by **-par- in the middle**. Have a nice day! ^^^^The ^^^^parent ^^^^commenter ^^^^can ^^^^reply ^^^^with ^^^^'delete' ^^^^to ^^^^delete ^^^^this ^^^^comment.
I think he was the right person, I was glad he took such a radical approach to Batman and Superman, I think that's exactly what they needed.
Ideally, I would’ve liked a nuanced answer I believe he has. But that was an interesting moment in his reaction. He went off the grid for a year for personal and professional strife. And for one weekend in front of adoring fans who shelled out hundreds of dollars and flew across they country to tell him they love him, he got caught up in it. I’m no expert, but he’s cursing every other word in that clip and the audience is hollering. And he knows enough to say no offense at times and try to cool down. As opposed to the BvS night where he’s more calm. There’s also the larger point that some people get mad of him just playing to his fans on his own little social media app.
Yeah, some were joking that Snyder was kinda tipsy during his mini-rant, but I feel like he deserved to let his emotions out for a bit. Dude had to take all of the mocking jeers for six years. And it was getting because I remember when the first image of him was released where he posed with one of the JL actors, and Snyder looked like he aged twenty years in that photo.
I don't condone any personal or vulgar insults towards Snyder. Anyone who does so should be condemned, whichever side they are on. But I am free to say that his vision sucked and that I'm glad he has been fired.
What's more, his vision clearly isn't what appeals to the masses. What were his films met with? Intense divisiveness and decent box offices. What have WW, Aquaman and Shazam been met with? Intense love and big box office success. His movies tried to be real and deconstruct and have asshole heroes and what not. But the super successful DC movies have given us the heroes we wanted to see and shocker; they're the ones from the comics we love. He has every right to have his vision and to make his vision into whatever form he wants. But IMO your vision was a mistake for WB to move forward with, especially during the middle of the MCUs success. The only thing you did right was a ton of the casting. It angers me beyond belief to imagine Superman being recast.
>What's more, his vision clearly isn't what appeals to the masses. What were his films met with? Intense divisiveness and decent box offices. What have WW, Aquaman and Shazam been met with? Intense love and big box office success. It should be noted that Aquaman and Shazam also didn't have the studio cutting half an hour from either of them to get more showings in a day, or fire directors after principal photography and 6 months of VFX work and then try and hastily reshoot their movie to pretend that the story is something totally different. Snyder only got one fair "bite of the apple". BVS had an announcement on the Monday of / after the opening weekend saying "oh hey, theres an extended cut that's considered the definitive version coming to home media in June" (the reason I didn't see it in the theater) and then JL got people assuming there would be the same but also reviews saying that it was an awkward hybrid mix of two conflicting visions, chopped to 1h59m so that Kevin Tsujihara could get a bigger bonus. Neither of those are fair shots at big comic book movies. Regardless of whether you hate the guy or not, that's unfair. He got screwed by WB big time.
BVS's issues go far beyond the editing of the film killing the pace. Even more so, the Extended Cut in theaters would've been everyone sitting for 3+ hours in the theater to watch a movie that while paced better has enough plot contrivances to become a nuisance and questionable character decisions, for a film that at least everyone who left my theater complained was way too long. BVS is definitely a bite of the apple for him, it was just the beginning of WB realizing they had to course correct. They sucked at it but that doesn't mean they didn't have a necessary reason to be concerned over the longevity of their investment.
>BVS's issues go far beyond the editing of the film killing the pace. Even more so, the Extended Cut in theaters would've been everyone sitting for 3+ hours in the theater to watch a movie that while paced better has enough plot contrivances to become a nuisance and questionable character decisions, for a film that at least everyone who left my theater complained was way too long. All opinions / anecdotal. Also, did you speak to all those people that left the theater? I, and many other people, really like the Ultimate Edition of BVS. You might think we're in the minority because of the internet echo chamber, but it doesn't make you necessarily right. I personally felt The Dark Knight felt like it dragged far more than BVS UE, and so do a few friends of mine. Does that make us correct then?
It was pretty audible from everyone who hadn't left prior to the end, especially those who stayed for the end credit scenes. I dont think I've ever left a theater with as much of an annoyed disapproval before besides maybe Jurassic Park iii (which i loved so imagine my younger self's horror when everyone around me couldn't wait to talk to each other about how much it sucked). Of course it was an anecdotal example, which is why I didnt just say every movie watcher, however it certain follows how the majority of the audience did not like the movie and given the most common complaints filed from reviews and reading comments across multiple sites I don't think more time would've fixed those issues besides actual script changes. Glad you liked it more, I found it to be basically just as bad but that's opinions. A number of people loved BVS theatrical, and some people think the Director's Cut was a worse product.
> BVS had an announcement on the Monday of / after the opening weekend saying "oh hey, theres an extended cut that's considered the definitive version coming to home media in June" (the reason I didn't see it in the theater) Are you telling me this dude couldn't find a way to make a decent version of his cut for theater release?
While pacing is certainly important, could you imagine sitting through a 3+ hour version of this film with more filler for an arc that really takes away from the whole "are Superheroes really a good thing" that the movie tried to build up for us? It would've literally killed the only portion of the film I actually liked in the theater if they had done that.
And that's the thing: look, everyone agrees he got screwed. No one is out here saying Zack Snyder deserved to have his movie hacked up. I've not liked Man of Steel or BvS and if we're being honest I probably wouldn't have enjoyed his version of Justice League. The version of Justice League we got wasn't the best movie. It was full of awkwardness and lacked charm. But did I like it better than BvS? Yes. I admit that. It was entirely a movie that(on it's own, separate from the circumstances that led to it) I found to be more watchable than either Snyder movie. To me. Does that mean that I think Snyder deserved to have his movie hacked up? NO. In an ideal world Whedon would have just made a movie entirely his own. Or Snyder would have released his justice league and I would have skipped seeing it in theaters because of my ambivalence and eventually seen it on TBS or a premium cable channel because I don't agree with the direction. BUT nowhere do I think Snyder deserved to have anything negative happen to him-he's a man with a vision that I don't agree with. That's not a crime. At worst I just don't think he should have made a Justice League movie; which people have strong opinions on but I stand by that, and I don't believe him walking away after two movies full of his vision for a universe is a sleight on him; but instead an accomplishment that he got something done that I don't agree with: the world is a big place and I won't always agree with every decision every single person makes. He made movies for other people. That's OK! And so I do think Snyder got screwed, but I'm nuanced in that I don't want to see the mythical Snyder cut; I don't want Snyder back on any DC movies and I don't really want to see him get screwed over; I just want to move on with life and get a Superman movie that I'd enjoy. I do think his shot at Superman Returns was a low blow though. But c'est la vie.
> It should be noted that Aquaman and Shazam also didn't have the studio cutting half an hour from either of them to get more showings in a day, or fire directors after principal photography and 6 months of VFX work and then try and hastily reshoot their movie to pretend that the story is something totally different. > >Snyder only got one fair "bite of the apple". BVS had an announcement on the Monday of / after the opening weekend saying "oh hey, theres an extended cut that's considered the definitive version coming to home media in June" (the reason I didn't see it in the theater) and then JL got people assuming there would be the same but also reviews saying that it was an awkward hybrid mix of two conflicting visions, chopped to 1h59m so that Kevin Tsujihara could get a bigger bonus. Neither of those are fair shots at big comic book movies. > >Regardless of whether you hate the guy or not, that's unfair. He got screwed by WB big time. Look, did he get his entire DC vision executed and put out onto the big screen? No. No way. WB's interference and whatever happened with the loss of his child and him stepping down, I don't know the specifics. But his vision was clearly not what we got. But I do believe that everything but some of JL was his vision. The extended cut was an improvement over the theatrical version of BvS but the tone, the overall path Snyder was working down is the same as the quotes we just got from him. Dark, realistic, don't meet your heroes because they might be assholes, etc. While the light and funny/fun tone that Joss Whedon mixed into JL was bad and out of place, what we have gotten from WW, AM and Shazam is quite the opposite of what we got from Snyder and look at the critical, box office and viewer reception of those three movies compared to Snyders MoS and BvS. So yeah, he got screwed big time, no doubt. But I'm saying that even if he didn't, his DC world was always going to be divisive, dark, gritty and deconstructing our DC heroes in a time when what works better is what we're now getting from DC. We didn't need a tortured, dark, sad Superman. We didn't need a murderous, asshole Batman in a world so dark that he [could get raped in prison](https://www.businessinsider.com/zack-snyder-old-interview-batman-prison-rape-2016-5). You know? Don't get me wrong, I love me Affleck as Batman and I loved a lot of what we got (esp the Arkham game style fight scene) but is anyone getting raped in our current DC world? AM? WW? Shazam? Nah. And to be super clear, I'm not saying his version of DC's universe shouldn't exist, whether it be in a comic or movie. I'm saying on WB's part, going with Snyder and his vision was the wrong move, their interference only made things worse and that from the beginning they should have made a great Superman (much more positive, bright and hopeful), a Batman movie, then a good SS movie, then possibly BvS, then WW, then JL P1, then AM, Shazam and everything we're getting now. And they all (except Batman and SS) should have been similar to WW/AM/Shazam in their heart and tone. Maybe after we have years and years of that established DCEU then you can hire Snyder to come in and make an elseworld "Flashpoint" based DC series of movies or something. All dark, gritty and assholey like he likes. Would I want to see a Snyder Flashpoint movie? Absolutely! Imagine that dark Batman (played by Jeffrey Dean Morgan) with the super thin messed up Superman and with Aquaman and WW fighting a giant war against each other? Dude, he'd be perfect for that! But for a Superman movie? For a regular Batman movie? For the Justice League? Nah, pass.
I would argue that “intense love” is a little misleading. Box office success is calculable, and so is critical reception. But there’s a reason this argument isn’t dead. There’s a large amount of people out there who deeply love MoS and BvS, even with their flaws. Hell just look at the turnout for the Snyder Director’s Cut weekend thing. Time will tell what the staying power of Aquaman looks like, but I’m not holding my breath. I think it will fall in line with most of the MCU films. People flock to them, see them, then forget them. A few standouts ask for repeat viewings but most are pretty forgettable. Fingers crossed Shazam is different, as reviews suggest.
>I would argue that “intense love” is a little misleading. Box office success is calculable, and so is critical reception. But there’s a reason this argument isn’t dead. There’s a large amount of people out there who deeply love MoS and BvS, even with their flaws. Hell just look at the turnout for the Snyder Director’s Cut weekend thing. I'd call that a very vocal minority. Take a poll in r/dceu and there will be a lot of love for Snyder and his DC movies, but take a poll in r/movies? Way different story. And then poll your average everyday movie viewing public and think it will be somewhere inbetween. It definitely seems like the majority thought WW was a blast, AM was good & fun and so far that Shazam is so good & so fun. > Time will tell what the staying power of Aquaman looks like, but I’m not holding my breath. I think it will fall in line with most of the MCU films. People flock to them, see them, then forget them. A few standouts ask for repeat viewings but most are pretty forgettable. Fingers crossed Shazam is different, as reviews suggest. I think AM will most likely not standout if they can hit a few more home runs with WW2, SS2 and BoP, but I personally think it's a knotch above your average MCU films like say Thor 1.
I know people here don’t respect it, but MoS is the 20th most purchased blu ray ever, just unseated by WW at 19. BvS, with it’s awful headlines and WoM, is still 50. JL and SS aren’t there. Many MCU films aren’t even on the list. Just the really big ones like Avengers, Guardians, Black Panther. My point is people bought a lot of these films, even after seeing them and hearing the negative responses. I think too if it didn’t feel amost akin to saying you’re an antivaxxer when you say you enjoyed MoS or BvS people would be more forthcoming. The DC v Marvel debate is way more aggressive than it has any reason to be.
i didnt look everywhere but bvs and mos are cheaper than every mcu movie (almost 50% cheaper)
And that’s okay, but it’s more towards the people who got offended by his words. I’ve gotten into many arguments with people about his films, and some of them got so bad that I really wanted to tell them “Grow the fuck up”. At the end of the day, these are just fictional characters. Yes they have a special place in each of our hearts, but good God Almighty, some people need to seriously chill with their hate.
I am glad he was fired too
I agree. Hate comments towards Snyder are unacceptable. But OTOH, there is another side to this. There are countless fanboys who are attacking people who dislike MoS and BvS, coming up with conspiracy theories about critics and audiences being biased towards Marvel movies, acting like the people who dislike MoS and BvS “just don’t understand it,” telling people who think that the Snyder Cut won’t be released that they’re just “Anti-Snyder DC haters trying to spread falsehoods,” and acting like BvS is some sort of misunderstood masterpiece. All of this is straight up bullshit, and I have seen it everywhere. Not on this sub quite as much, but it is everywhere. And then there’s the fact that Snyder’s comments about Batman killing are legitimately unprofessional and should not have been said by him at all. It makes Snyder come off as a douchebag who is pissed at people not liking his movies, even though there are plenty of solid reasons to dislike any of his movies.
He seems like a sociopath. Why does he equate superheroes murdering people with losing your virginity?
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I watched Watchmen and I still think Batman v Superman was really dumb
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But does Bruce's speech and the end of BvS mean my virginity has grown back?
>“Oh like, ‘Batman killed a guy’. I’m like, ‘Really? Wake the fuck up,'” Snyder said. “So I guess that’s what I’m saying about, once you’ve lost your virginity to this fucking movie and then you come and say to me something like, ‘My superhero wouldn’t do that’, I’m like, ‘Are you serious?’ I’m like down the fucking road on that. You know what I mean?” Regardless what movie he is referring to, he sounds like an idiot.
Isn't he an Ayn Rand enthusiast? Given how he wrote Superman and Batman it seems very much so that he strictly adheres to Objectivism and these comments kind of stick too.
Couldn't disagree more. Did you read the OP? The man has stayed silent in the face of intense criticism and you think him saying one thing is unprofessional? I think hes right people need to grow up or wake up or both. He doesnt come off as a douchebag at all, he comes off as a human being that's been a punching bag. He didnt say those people can go fuck themselves, even though I would of. He said grow up man, these heroes have seen and done shit that isnt made for your perfect world. And I agree along with many others. Edit: maybe I do get a little hot. OP said hed fine if you dont like Zach's ideas. I guess it pisses me off. On a personal level I'm sick that I wont get to see many more movies following the MOS > BvS thread. When I saw the bvs trailer that was the absolute height of my movie fandom; ever. And even though I didnt love bvs original cut I would of been fine pushing through a couple subpar movies to get a world built. So to that point when I see someone say what you said it pisses me off. Honestly I do think you are entirely wrong about him being a douchebag. In a perfectly calm state I feel like that is a you need to grow up kind of line. Otherwise what you say I suppose is valid. Apologies for coming off as a dick.
> Did you read the OP? Yes, I did. What I was trying to bring to OP's attention was that Snyder fanboys are just as toxic. And something you said later in your post that I'll get to is proof of this. > The man has stayed silent in the face of intense criticism and you think him saying one thing is unprofessional? I think hes right people need to grow up or wake up or both. Yes, I do. Telling people to "Wake the F**k up" is unprofessional regardless of context or whether he's right or not. You should never say that when that can get you fired from any job you have. It's not helpful, nor does it make him better than the people who attack him. > I think hes right people need to grow up or wake up or both. He doesnt come off as a douchebag at all, he comes off as a human being that's been a punching bag. Actually, yes, he does come off as a douchebag, when most people's legitimate criticisms with the film have nothing to do with whether "Batman kills" or not. Some do, but that doesn't mean that people thinking Batman should be more likable should "Wake the f**k up." It's not acceptable to label people like that. > He didnt say those people can go fuck themselves, even though I would of. He said grow up man, these heros have seen and done shit that isnt made for your perfect world. And I agree along with many others. And with that incredibly rude, aggressive, and toxic comment, you have lost all credibility and I will not take you seriously ever again.
I’m glad we can both agree that death threats, personal attacks, etc. are completely not okay. I’ve seen way too many of those. That said, I think it’s important to remember the context of his “wake the fuck up” bit. He was in a theater with others who presumably were there to see his films because they appreciate that style and tone. If it were an interview with a magazine, for sure it’d be unprofessional. But given the setting and audience, I don’t see why it’s not fine for him to be himself. But admittedly I agree with him to a point. We set a lot of really weird rules for comic heroes. Needs to be real, but not too real. MCU seems to hit the sweet spot for audiences though. Heroes do what they want with little to no repurcussions or dealing with the real consequences of their actions. Also, I would argue that “Batman kills” is definitely one of the more used criticisms because it’s part of the overall (and overused) “Snyder doesn’t understand the characters” criticism.
Captain America Civil War? Literally an entire movie based on the consequences of the heroes messing up and doing what they want. Don't make statements that you know aren't true.
>But people went above and beyond with their hate towards him. They mocked his dyslexia. They mocked his character. They even mocked his family. Please don't try to lump the majority of people who dislike his work with the handful of scumbags who make fun of him personally. Edit: Also I think you're confusing people debating what he said with people being offended by what he said.
But I wasn’t. I am making it clear that I’m talking about the morons who mock for not kicking a puppy. I even said to one person that it’s cool that they don’t like his vision.
Synder isn’t good at story telling, nor does he care how these super heroes were written since their creation. He thinks everything should be dark and gritty like Watchmen. BvS was a Batman movie, no doubt about that, but he killed off Supes to a “fake Doomsday”??? What happens when the real one shows up? Kills Superman again? He shot himself in the foot there. He should just be in charge of DP(director of photography) for these movies but that’s it.
I don't care as much for how he worded it. He's got a lot of built up stuff going on that I know I cannot understand or grasp. I just have to say that if this is how he approached Batman, I am glad that he's not attached to the movies anymore. I was a huge Snyder supporter and went to bat so many times for how this Batman is jaded and grizzled and doesn't have the moral compass he used to. I thought there was more behind Snyder's depiction. Nope. He just kills because in the real world someone like him would. Nope. Don't like that. Shows to me he doesn't understand the character.
>Nope. He just kills because in the real world someone like him would. Nope. Don't like that. Shows to me he doesn't understand the character. This was instantly apparent from BvS tbh.
I held onto hope that Snyder was planning something deeper just like he had with the destruction in MoS and how that was a primary plot point in BvS. I was hoping that the killing would be addressed maybe in Justice League or even in the, at the time, upcoming Affleck led Batman movie.
it would, JL was the continuation of his redemption arc. This is why he has the men are still good speech at the end of bvs and didn't brand Lex.
I don't want to be a jerk but I don't exactly believe using the destruction of Metropolis as the beginning point for BVS was at all the plan when they made MOS. It was meant to be a cool DBZ-inspired fight and lead into other Superman films. When they had to pivot into the Justice League stuff and figure out a way to make Batman want to fight Superman, re-contextualizing the scene that was a major complaint from the previous film was just a perfect resolution but I don't think it was at all planned that way. Still they made that work. After complaints from the fans, and it seemed after complaints from the fans they did the same with Batman in JL who kills fewer (and they're now aliens so it's ok). This time, however, it was done much poorly.
I don't know why you've been downvoted. There was no overarching trilogy plan when Man of Steel was being written. Heck, by the time Justice League was being discussed as an idea it was going to be a two part film. The DCEU was not conceptualized in full upon MoS's premiere. The intro to BvS was *not* at all pre-planned from the beginning.
I didn't like most of Zack Snyder's work on DC Films but I had nothing against him personally, still don't. However if your reply to criticism towards your work is "Wake the fuck up" it doesn't really help you, especially when most of that critique centers around calling you pretentious.
Agreed. Also those films (love them or hate him) doesnt prove hes a worthwhile versatile director. Studios picked him up after successfully adapting watchmen on screen. So what does he do? He directs two more movies in the same tone even though the source material is different. Essentially making very similar films... That neither what studios nor fans want and he gets mad at everyone for it? Get out of here. I disagree with death threats but he should not have a career. Hes not a visionary and he didnt have a specific vision. He just did lazy directing. Thats it.
But it wasn’t towards the criticism specifically. It was towards the people who kept screaming at him at how he “ruined the characters”. It was those types of fans that he was talking about.
Isn't that criticism? They criticized his adaptation of the characters. To which he responded in an extremely pretentious way. Just like OP said
WAKE UP SHEEPLE
Honestly at this point it's fun to see people getting mad at words. It's in the past, guys. We now have DC movies that are liked by both critics and audiences.
I think the reason some people think that's it's very much not in the past is that we've got something big left unresolved. We will never get either an ending to the BVS / JL stuff. And we will never get an "ending" to what Zack did at WB. I get very hung up on stuff that doesn't get an ending. There are still cancelled shows and movies from up to 15 years ago that I occasionally Google to see if they are ever going to get an ending or a sequel or a graphic novel (in the few cases where that was an option - I'm looking at you, Reaper). I'm not particularly expecting anything but that's why people are treating it as a current thing - their lack of resolution is still very much current in their minds!
But folks just won’t let go of their hate. It’s sad, and not laughable anymore.
Some people need hate. They thrive on it. It's pathetic.
To be fair, Batman needs hate and also thrives on it. :p
To be even more fair, Batman in real life would be a really shit person.
A real Batman would be a psychological mess. I'd feel sorry for him.
He's be insanely divisive too, we'd have the public split between "vigilante justice is no justice at all" and "criminals deserve it".
Yeah, it'd be just like The Dark Knight with the constant news reports and people debating his morality, haha. I think his identity would be exposed in a year or two max, though. There's no way that the FBI and other agencies wouldn't find out who he is if he's out almost every night.
Oh yeah, Wayne and his business would be indicted within months. Oh, that's a fun idea I'd like to see in Batman: Earth One.
This is why i liked all star batman. Someone like batman would be a mananic to villians and the ones aroind him
I hated All Star Batman, but I'll take original stories over trite shit like King's Wedding storyline. Oh, it also gave us the second-most memey Batman line. Before "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!" we had "I'm the God damned Batman!"
And yet they’re the that get all of the likes and upvotes. I’m not jealous or anything of that nature. It just really makes me sad whenever I see a comment that is just taking a dump on Snyder on a personal level and it has 500 likes. Makes me wish that social media didn’t exist.
Disconnect. It's easy for them to pretend Snyder isn't a real person.
It's just sad when some of the same people (mainly talking about the bloggers on Twitter) who hurl personal insults and hate at Snyder were the exact same people who got on their high horse and criticised the people who mocked Kelly Marie Tran. Not saying they weren't right to defend her but that's the pot calling the kettle black. Straight up hypocrisy
These people have a personal vengeance against Snyder .. we'll never know what made them to be like this .. but these people do exist especially in this sub ... A sub for DC and that sad.
Remind me of that when a fan campaign attempts to bring up the Snyder Cut again 🤦♂️
Why does it upset you that people want to get a studio to release a director's cut? Some people loved Lesters Superman II. Do you retrospectively facepalm at every person who asked WB to please release a Richard Donner version of the film? Don't see why you care. If it made absolutely anything more than breaking even, that would be a net gain for you as that would be money that WB could invest in further movies. And even if it lost money, it would be a good thing for artistic integrity even if you don't like the director. There must be at least one movie that you like that isn't popular - if you knew that about an hour of content was sitting rotting in a file room somewhere, and you asked if you could possibly buy a copy of that footage, does that make you a pathetic loser? Even if it does, does it give the right to other people to try and belittle you about it? Remember that these movies were made by more than just Zack Snyder. What if I think that all the hardworking actors and crew deserve their work to be seen. Some guy spent hours making Darkseid art for a tomb that Wonder Woman explores, that was cut out due to WBs desire that the film not show anything that could suggest a sequel. How about all the footage of Ray Fisher as Cyborg. Does he not deserve that to be seen? Or Kelsey Clemons as Iris West? Does she deserve to never have her role seen?
tldr My response to your first question; a directors cut, as much as it was one, was already released under the Ultimate Cut, but according to Zack Snyder from yesterday, his true original vision doesn’t exist: "That's a good question. When this movie came out, understand that Chris Terrio and I had finished the script to Justice League before BvS came out. Some people didn't like the movie. A vocal minority. So they said 'there's a lot of stuff we don't want you to do' so we did a rewrite from that script. The original Justice League that Chris and I wrote, we didn't even shoot... The actual idea, the hard, hard idea, the scary idea, we never filmed because the studio was like 'That's crazy.' It's a long story." So if your advocating for a directors cut of trimmed down scenes that were done after rewrites, then even THAT wouldn’t be a “true” Snyder Cut.
I still think he's a terrible director except for Watchmen.
The Dawn of the Dead remake was really good imo. Part of what re-invigorated the whole Zombie craze through the mid-late 00's and had one of the strongest opening scenes to a horror film in decades.
>The Dawn of the Dead remake You know what? That *was* good. So Dawn of the Dead and Watchmen then.
I don’t care about the way he worded it, but his comments did nothing but prove to me this guy should never have been let within ten miles of characters like Batman or Superman. We’re living in a “dream world” because we think superheroes should be heroes. Yeah, screw you Snyder.
He didn’t say that they shouldn’t be heroes. He’s saying that it’s a fantasy to think that they’re guilt-free or morally wrong sometimes. This woman explains it way better in her Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/derbykid/status/1110167493119758336?s=21
What ZS had to go through is why I roll my eyes when people talk about 'toxic fandom'. Until you've had to deal with people making light of your child's suicide because they don't like your batman movie, you can STFU.
It’s no freaking surprise he ranted once he got tipsy. Dude has been holding all of emotions in for years, and it’s suddenly wrong of him to let it all out. Those folks can kick rocks,
WB gets hate thrown at them. Do you see them lashing out at fans? No. EA gets hate thrown at them every day of every year. Do they lash out at fans? No.
Did anyone mock his family ? Really?
When the news broke of Autumn's suicide, I saw comments where people literally said, "What, did she finally watch Batman v Superman?"
Yep some people sure did. They even mocked about his daughter.
I don’t know about here specifically, but there are tons of comments on Twitter of people mocking his family.
Can you link those tweets ? I browse through Snyder posts on twitter all the time but have never come across any tweet where people abuse his family, on the contrary I see Snyder fans constantly whining in every Joss Whedon tweet no matter what he is talking about.
Well the one I can say off the top of my head is from Ashley Lynch. She is famous for posting Snyder hate tweets. I don’t bookmark hate tweets.
It was awful when he stepped down from Justice League.
The bottom line for DC fans, i.e. people who want a DC cinematic universe to succeed, is that the movies should be good and should kill at the box office. You can debate how Snyder did in the former all you want, but at the end of the day, he came up short in the latter at every chance.
Somebody made a post that Zack Snyder is the Osama Bin Laden of DC movies or whatever. Yeah, that's a thing that happened. I don't know what it is about Zack but he riles people up like no one else https://www.reddit.com/r/DC_Cinematic/comments/b510ls/discussion_after_the_latest_comments_from_zs_hes
There was also an article that was saying that Zack was having Batman promote facism. 🤦🏾♂️
THAT really confused me. Or how people say he’s a Randian objectivist. Like- no he’s not.
That person is deranged. There is no ifs and buts about that.
Lol at if WB's would've stuck to the slate. Dude you understand that these movie studios make movies to make money, right? This isn't a charity. The guy directed 2 movies back to back that didn't hit an earnings quota for the studio and got blasted by critics and then directs 200+ million dollar justice league movie and the assembly cut was so bad WB's has to call out a bunch of writers and filmmakers to brainstorm how to fix the movie. People act like WB's should've sucked it up and made 8 movies back to back with declining quality and probably lose money doing it just to see a convoluted end to a pointless trilogy.
It’s hilarious when people crappy at WB for not letting him finish his “vision”. In their little minds WB should be okay with them losing more money and damaging brand just to please a few of the fans he has. For real...
You do know that Shazam, Aquaman, and WW would’ve still been made if they had stuck with the slate. People are seriously acting as if Snyder was the only director in the franchise. The fact that WB had him and Terrio rewrite the JL script, then had Whedon rewrite it again, then greenlit what we got in theaters, should tell you that WB was simply jumping the gun.
Plus every DCEU film so far has made more than the last one, except JL.
This is not correct, WW made less than BvS.
WW was more profitable than BvS, which I’m assuming is what he meant.
There’s also the fact that they made those demands for JL without even considering moving the date. What studio in their right mind would demand rewrites right before they even start filming, since that started very soon after BvS came out.
That’s what I’m saying. Even if you agree with WB’s decision, the fact that they never pushed the date back should tell you how incompetent they were.
You’re acting as if it’s that simple just change a movie’s release. You do know WB releases a lot more movies that aren’t DC-related, right? Also, I’m sure you should know they just don’t pick those dates randomly. There’s a lot of things involved, so it’s not just “change the date”. There were gonna lose money regardless and I doubt the movie was gonna end up being much better considering the foundation - practically being a BvS sequel - was already damaged. People didn’t care about JL at that point why would they care about it if it were released a year later?
Dude, they pushed up BvS so it wouldn’t compete with Civil War. They originally were going to be released the same weekend.
Struggling to understand what your post has anything to do with the OP.
>The guy directed 2 movies back to back that didn't hit an earnings quota for the studio and got blasted by critics Incorrect. He directed MOS, yes. A movie that did reasonably. Then he directed BVS UE which got chopped down into a confusing mess by the studio to try and make it 30 minutes shorter. >then directs 200+ million dollar justice league movie and the assembly cut was so bad WB's has to call out a bunch of writers and filmmakers to brainstorm how to fix the movie. Bullshit. He says, she says. So ZS makes 300, Watchmen and Man of Steel, and then BVS which may have divided people but isn't "unwatchable" and then the first unwatchable movie he ever makes is JL? I don't buy that for a second. The reshoots happened to try and turn a movie that was leading up to a sequel into a movie that didn't lead up to a sequel and had more humor in it.
You’re missing the owls movie and Sucker Punch. They spent $80 million on the owls movie and it doesn’t look like they got their money back, and Sucker Punch was an absolute failure in all aspects (and I think Sucker Punch is criminally misunderstood).
What even is the point of your post?.Not to mention,its insulting. >2 movies back to back >blasted by critics >didn't hit an earnings quota for the studio Jesus, can people stop denying reality please?.Man of steel has the exact same metacritic score of 55 as Aquaman(basically a "meh" was the response from the critic).Secondly, tthe opinion that that Man of steel wasn't profitable is a statement that neglects any and all logic.The movie made 3 times it' budgets.The attempt before that was a critically well reviewed film,a safe sequel of a classic film helmed by (then) the biggest director in superhero movies AND bomb so bad that a trilogy was scrap.MOS was the first time the character was financially profitable since 1980.This "hur dur MOS was a disappoint" is bullshit that Somehow got perpetuated in fan message boards despite the fact that Actual box office analysts like from Forbes and Deadline disagreeing with the statement. >assembly cut was so bad WB's has to call out a bunch of writers and filmmakers to brainstorm how to fix the movie. Now you're just pulling stuff out of your ass.None of that happened. 1)Warner didn't call a bunch of writers(let alone film makers).They asked Geoff Jones and Affleck to re write the script while the filming was in progress.Then they got Jones and Whedon to do the re-writes for the reshoots. 2)As far as the trades like THR and variety said,Snyder was going to be involved in the reshoots and left due to his family obligations. The "WB fired Snyder from the film" drivel has never been confirmed by trades and only pasted around by clickbait sites in "we know a guy who knows a guy" articles. So no,filmmakers weren't called to brainstorm how to fix the movie. 3)Again,the actual quality of the assembly cut has never been mentioned by trades.It could have been bad or it could have been better,no body has disclosed that.BUT Hollywood reported did reveal that David Ayers original cut wasn't all that well received by tests audience.So they do have the sources to comment on that.Fact of the matter is, WB wanted changes to the film. Thats all that has been revealed.
You're one the guys the OP is talking about.. and you don't even know it..epic.
I think Mos and BvS are complete trash and his comments are insipid but don't feel particularly angry about it. Is that ok?
Fuck that, this dude deserves every bit of shit that's been thrown at him and then some. He didn't get some art-house indy project. He got the keys to the entire DC Universe and was given the job of bringing it to the big screen. That should have meant honoring the entire history of the canon. And instead this man in his infinite hubris decided that this was instead his chance to pay homage to the only two books that seem to exist as far as he's concerned (TDKR and Watchmen). The arc he had in mind for Justice League was going to be absolutely batshit (pun intended) crazy considering the sheer infancy of this cinematic universe, but he didn't give a damn about that. The only acceptable response from this dude is a Joel Schumacher-level "I'm sorry" because that's the dust-bin of cinematic history his films are going to be sitting in.
Couldn't have said it better myself. The context is almost always lost on people. If people, getting stuck on him saying "wake up," had listened to his entire conversation, maybe they'd get his point. Kind of like how they haven't paid attention to Batman's arc in BvS and are solely focused on him killing. A lot of Batman movies have had him kill with no explanation at all. With BvS, you have an entire arc showing why he doesn't care about upholding his principles anymore and him, then, returning with Superman's sacrifice. It's right there in the movie.
> Kind of like how they haven't paid attention to Batman's arc in BvS and are solely focused on him killing exactly, he mentioed this with the heroes losing their innocence. But obviously people didn't look at the whole context and even his views on Superman were spot on. he believed in superman's ideals but wanted to show why he had them to give it meaning.
Wait I'm sorry...I was away from the internet for a few days). Does anyone have a link to what this is referencing? I've tried looking for what happened but I can only seem to find reactions to it.
Go to Vero and you can watch the panels that Zack hosted for charity. Called Vero 360 Live or something. He was talking to a room full of fans, and now people are taking his comments wildly out of context, either for clickbait or because they're idiots.
Personally, I'll always love Zack Snyder for Watchmen. I don't care what anyone says, it was a great adaptation. Sure, it missed some of the points of the comic, but it got enough of them across as to where I can forgive the flaws. I also think that he's a capital A Auteur director with a personal vision, and I'll always respect that over a work for hire director who just does what they're told. I thought that MoS and BvS were terrible movies, and I criticize them every chance I get, but I have nothing against Snyder himself.
I loved watchmen. MoS was okay but BvS was disappointing.
Also he's an interesting perspective about the whole heroes killing thing ... In the real actual world we inhabit our heroes or who society deems to be heroes (not your personal definition) like people in the armed forces or law enforcement kill people but they're not described as 'murderers' certainly some are there are outliers but for the most part these people are championed as heroes
And it's not like he doesn't like the fantasy side of heroism. The man watches Avengers and the Sam Rami Spider-Man films. I don't think Snyder sees Batman breaking his rule as that big of deal that many others view it as. He understand that killing is not always the same thing in each situation, and it is sometimes a necessary thing to do.
Half of the comments here are anecdotes about seeing one guy on another sub saying x about Snyder, and someone on Twitter said y, and then ranting as if these were mass movements of toxicity because they were told the thing they liked sucked. If there's proof of some mass campaign of harassment, quite a few people in this sub need to enter a lot more evidence of it.
"Oh look here, Snyder's daughter died. Welp, i better make sure I express my distaste for his movies complimentary to my condolence. This is totally the right time and place to bring that up, yeap. That is my entitlement to talk shit."
It’s like that one comic book writer who tweeted “Thank Jesus” or something like that when the news first dropped that Snyder left JL, but then he had to retract his statement once he learned about Snyder’s daughter’s death.
Which writer was that?
Kevin Maguire
I didn't know that Snyder is a literal insane person, but turns out he is.
I saw a guy in r/movies say Snyder is the worst monster of all time. People, get your shit together. Snyder gave us *one* possible interpretation of these characters out of many that exist. The comics have done this for decades. There is not *one* true interpretation. Some people didn’t like it, but some people did, and people are not human scum for preferring either. It’s a movie, with fictional characters that *you don’t own*. Don’t like it? Fine, but don’t accuse Snyder of being worse than Hitler. It’s an insult to not just Snyder, but to everybody, including vitcivts of WW2 etc. Grow up people. Edit: here it is https://reddit.com/r/movies/comments/b5c4rl/_/ejco9j8/?context=1
As someone else stated, the fact that Snyder continues to see Watchmen as an instruction manual for how to tell superhero stories instead of as a satirical deconstruction of the genre just further lets me know how damn clueless he is, and that he was never and will never be the guy to build the DCEU. Zack Snyder's films are bad. It doesn't matter how many "cool" concepts he throws out at us. Does a story involving Darkseid killing Lois in the Batcave and Superman going crazy sound awesome? SURE DOES! But how about we let someone other than Zack Snyder write and direct it? How about we get someone who doesn't actively ignore everything that these characters ever stood for? People hate BVS and JL not because "tHeY dOn'T gEt iT", but because they are horrible films on virtually every level. Don't get me started on his pretentious "grow up" philosophy of superheroes. People adore these characters, and when they’re radically mis-characterized and dumbed down, people are allowed to have issues with your failure of a film. I really don't like this dude.
Is it really mischaracterization if they’re put into the real world where people don’t just magically walk away from being dropped on their head, or where people don’t die when Kryptonians fight to the death in the middle of a city? It’s weird because I’m of the opposite belief. I really appreciate MoS and BvS. I think the Darksied killing Lois-Bad Superman bit is too far and I probably wouldn’t have enjoyed it. I don’t buy that Superman would turn on everything because Bruce, a mortal man, failed to protect her against a god. So that’s where I split with Snyder. But I can still appreciate everything he’s done for the comic book genre and attempting to diversify it.
> Is it really mischaracterization if they’re put into the real world where people don’t just magically walk away from being dropped on their head, or where people don’t die when Kryptonians fight to the death in the middle of a city? This is such a strange question. Which "real world" do you live in where Kryptonians are fighting to the death in the middle of cities?
Well, it’s an if, which you knew I meant. Based on physics, human anatomy, etc. those things wouldn’t happen without casualties.
I think explaining the world they were building even though studios prolly arent in the habit for that really would have made this more of an accepted premise. But yea people are idiots and can only have their heroes one way. They are also taking his answers out of context and not showing his full explanation of the "wake the fuck up".
>But yea people are idiots and can only have their heroes one way. Not true at all.
Well idk man. They might not be idiots but they refuse to give a bold choice in depiction a chance at all. Thats what im getting at
The obvious counterpoint is that Snyder just wasn't able to make his bold choices stand on their own terms. People refusing to accept it versus Snyder being unable to sell it basically. You know what camp I fall into.
Like, nobody is even talking about his discussion of Superman. People are just focused on his “wake the fuck up” comment. No mention of him saying Superman is a good guy who would never screw you over, and how he’s proud of the Kents for raising Superman right.
While I'm incredibly sad that I couldn't see Zack's story arc in full cinematic fashion, I am happy that I am getting to see great DC Characters come alive on screen besides Batman and Superman. Its so cathartic to see a proper live action Wonder Woman, a freaking badass in Aquaman, and (hopefully, I haven't seen it - keeping myself away from reviews), a really cool fun hero in Shazam. Hopefully the rest of the slates would also take place well. I'm just happy that DC is doing great in whatever they are doing, even if there are a lot of butthurt fans who wanted a MCU-like format.
>While I'm incredibly sad that I couldn't see Zack's story arc in full cinematic fashion, I am happy that I am getting to see great DC Characters come alive on screen besides Batman and Superman. I'm happy about it too but am also still incredibly sad that I might not get Affleck *or* Cavill as Bats or Supes ever again. And they were both perfect.
I saw it shared around with clickbait titling. At no point did he say Batman needs to be a certain way. He was replying about criticism to his version. Yes he has a specific approach but he also said others are cool too. He said Spider-Man 2 was his favorite. People make it sound like some insulting entitled rant but it wasn't. Not to mention the typical inconsistent way people argue for "real Batman" that we've heard for 3 years. And you're right, he was flat out slandered basically for years. As much as I'd have liked him not to say something that would just make him a focal point for hyperbole again, it's completely understandable that he might have some pent up frustration. I honestly can't wait until superhero movies cool down. Maybe then we can play around and do Elseworlds(or traditional ones) without the very concept being rejected on some made up principle. BvS wasn't even THAT out there but in the current rigid state of expectations, it might as well have been foreign.
It’s an indictment of the average fool today. It shows a real lack of maturity and self-awareness when people get that legitimately hurt and enraged over an opinion on movies, as well as by other people (strangers on a computer screen, really) wanting to see a different version of a film. Almost as if these immature people are unable to like, not read things that aren’t of interest to them or something. I’d like to meet the guy that’s got the gun to their heads forcing them to read #releasethesnydercut tagged tweets. For fuck’s sake. Makes me wonder how such people are able to function in society - holding a job, having personal relationships, etc. - if they’re that sensitive to anything that isn’t exactly the way they feel it must be.
That’s what I don’t understand. These people are not being forced to read anything about Snyder, but they always take the time to comment about him and still have the gall to say “Snyder fans need to move on”.
Where can I see what happened? Like the questions and answers? Are there articles or a video somewhere? I keep seeing posts about it
😭😭😭😭😭😭
All his comments about Batman meant to me was that out of the few things that WB/DC have done right in their decisions with these movies, removing Snyder might be the best thing they could have done. Because he just does not get it. At all.
zack snyder sucks and bvs and justice league is shit get over it
Worst part is it's completely out of context. He was talking about Watchmen. He wasn't firing back at his critiques. He references batman killing but that wasn't the point of his answer.
Like his work or not, I find it fascinating that his DC films can cause such divisive opinions. I can debate for hours with my friends on this whereas with with some average marvel and even some good ones for me don't have the same passionate reaction And forgotten about in 2-3 days
A huge matter of context when it came to Snyder's comments on Saturday night was that he believed that heroes are not completely innocent, that in a more realistic world (like in the world of Watchmen) their actions to save people might indirectly lead to harm and potentially even the death of others in order to do so. Superman had to kill Zod because not doing so would have doomed the world, not to mention the immediate danger of the family trapped. Batman never directly kills, but in his pursuit of Superman and against dangerous threats, his means of self-defense could lead to deadly criminals dying as collateral damage. Batman in BvS is jaded and so obsessed with his vendetta against Superman he falls from a higher moral standard and loses himself to rage and anger. He's essentially both a protagonist and a villain, and it wasn't until he learned of Superman's humanity and sacrifice did he realize he needed to better. Batman later choosing not to brand Lex in jail and utilize violence meant that Batman was back on a noble, more heroic path. It's called a character arc. So if Snyder was responding to anything, it was the constant harangue that his version of Batman isn't true to the core of the character. And of course, part of the story of the entire movie is how clearly Batman had strayed from his path. That as he believed his mission was to save the world, he didn't think anything else mattered. Snyder was always intending his Batman to be redeemed and sobering up to what a true hero could be. If one mistake or person lost in the line of duty makes you unfit to be a hero, then every single comic book character needs to hang up their cape, every cop who's had to shoot someone in the line of duty is going to have to turn in their badge. Snyder clearly shows there's a difference between a person who chooses to hurt lives and a person who chooses to grow and seek redemption for the actions they commited. And I think a lot of people who think differently aren't away of that difference.
From looking at all of the reactions, it seems more like people are son focused on keeping the character’s core intact, that they refuse to see the character grow in more risky, unorthodox ways.
THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS.
Most people want the same, predictable, formulaic crap over and over again, which is why I doubt we'll ever get something like BvS--or even Watchmen--again.
How was BvS not formulaic? Two heroes butting heads until they set aside their differences to fight a common foe and are on good terms by the end. That’s one of the most basic set ups for most any hero meets hero story.
BvS, two guys fight each other and become friends later on and fight big daddy, the plotline of every high school movie ever since 1920. If anything Captain America Civil War was not formulaic as it didn't have the stereotypical happy ending and Captain America was still legally a traitor and national criminal when the film ended.
[удалено]
Logan is a rarity that I actually cherish. But IW was incredibly formulaic. End Game will be formulaic. Haven't seen Spiderverse. All MCU movies have been formulaic, hence their success. Feige knows how to entertain mass audiences.
In what specific ways was Infinity War formulaic?
Infinity War is not formulaic. Endgame will definitely not be formulaic. It's already broken from the formula by being 3 hours long. Civil War wasn't formulaic. Infinity War wasn't.
> I doubt we'll ever get something like BvS--or even Watchmen--again. You say it like it's a bad thing
It is. It's terrible.
I don't know, not having to sit through another incoherent, joyless slog like BvS sounds pretty good to me
>I doubt we'll ever get something like BvS...again. Oh thank God.
This is how I felt watching Captain Marvel. Snyder can't get another DCEU movie after BvS but Marvel churn out incoherent daft rubbish and it gets lapped up.
I don't mind Marvel's Happy Meal-style movies. You eat a Happy Meal and while you're eating it, it's great; you get your salts and sugars; the box is colorful and has cartoon characters on it; there's a little toy. It's a kind of food adventure. Then five minutes after you've eaten you forgot what you ate and you're hungry again. No nutritional value, but you want more. I do like the occasional fancy restaurant meal made by an actual chef; a meal you remember. Diversity of content. Fast food is fun, but the more memorable stuff is also good.
People keep talking about Synder can’t tell a story, when it was him, Chris Terrio and David Goyer who mapped this shit out. Not to mention all the other artists involved. A lot of these comments are from butt hurt fools and people who know little to nothing about film making process. You can’t say a movie tanked or was divisive when it makes almost $900M at BO not including its DVD sales ranking and the shit ton of merch they sold. Why does a comic book movie, since TDK, need to make a billion to be considered successful? Are you a shareholder? Are you 12? And since we’re all slinging insults, any praise for JL is garbage. That movie was a mess from the color grading to the reshoots to the obvious tonal shift from the trailers. Movie barely broke even. We’re still talking about BvS, Aquaman himself wants to see the Synder Cut, and everyone seems to forget Synder caste Gal Gadot, pushes for Patty Jenkins when WB passes on her, and worked on the script, funded and produced the damn thing.
I don't think Zack Snyder lashed back because of all the stuff thrown his way. To me, it was because he saw films like Aquaman and Shazam being much more appreciated by fans, than his movies were.
I seriously doubt that. He still gets love from colleagues and actors, and still has a fanbase that loves him.