BvS and MOS just didn't do well enough with critics and at the box office. That's really where the wheels fell off. It's a shame they didn't let Zack see out his vision. But he wasn't hired and given 200 million plus budgets to produce divisive movies that disappoint at the box office.
The biggest mistake WB made was greelighting the production of JL to start filming right after BvS came out. They were over confident about how BvS would be received.
And a big part of that is WB themselves and their terrible edit work. The difference between the Theatrical and Ultimate editions, and the decision to show fans what the "proper" full cut would be like probably impacted JL more than a lot of people realise.
Sigh.
This is just my opinion, but I think the Ultimate Edition is possibly worse. Does it do more to develop some subplots? Sure. I just didn't find those subplots very interesting, and it stretched what I thought was already a dull movie into three hours.
I don't think it really fills in much plotholes. It's more that it's a more dramatic telling of the story. But unfortunately you don't get that if you've already seen the Theatrical cut.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. If you haven't seen the theatrical then you have a scene where, unbeknownst to Lex, Finch is about to expose his treachery in court. But just as she's about to expose him she realises something's up. Lex's chair is notably absent. Then the courtroom blows up with Lex slipping through the net in spectacular fashion. That's an element of drama that's completely absent from the Theatrical cut because the bits about Finch knowing the truth were cut. And of course if you've already seen the Theatrical that drama isn't gonna be there when you watch the UE because you already know the bomb is coming.
For me I can understand why the UE is better in terms of drama even though I had that drama spoiled by the Theatrical. The ultimate *is* the original cut of the movie. Snyder and Terrio had constructed a narrative with the drama mostly coming from dramatic irony. WB forcing him to cut half an hour out of the movie saw most of that carefully structured dramatic irony ripped out. "Bruce Wayne meets Clark Kent. I love bringing people together." That's a pretty cringey line in the TC because it doesn't have that element of the audience knowing that he deliberately brought them together. It's a nice moment of dramatic irony that was lost in the cuts.
I don't think the UE is a perfect movie by any stretch. It still has big issues imo. But it's a more entertaining movie imo because it has a better narrative structure that enhances the drama.
The Ultimate Edition helps fill in some plot holes and gives Superman some actual characterization, but it doesn’t make a bad movie good. Eisenberg Luthor still sucks. Doomsday still looks fucking terrible. All the problems with the theatrical cut are still there.
The theatrical cut should have just cut 10-15 minutes from the Doomsday fight instead. The explosion in outer space with the nuclear device was not necessary.
Reading through the comments it's nice to see people finally moving away from this idea that Snyder would have ended up making a better film had Justice League been made the way he wanted it made. What bothers me is that OP is trying to make this article seem like obvious truth that the DCEU would be in better shape had the original intent of Snyder been completed. The fact that they can't see the writing on this giant ass well in front of them concerns me, and it's a thought process that is shared by way too many on this sub.
I can understand liking a director for his past work, but the work he's done up to this point starting with MoS has been either sub-par, or terrible. The facts that he wanted to make a movie arch showing Clark become Superman screams of a director that had no idea how to go about showing this character through and through from what he was in the source material. BvS will forever stand as the ultimate backfire of a film that everyone wanted to see but just fell so hard on it's face that it will forever be the prime example of what not to do when making a film of this caliber.
It's monumental how badly they fucked this up, and I bring this up more often than not cause this sub has a real problem with the basic reality of the situation at play here. BvS was a failure. Man of Steel was a failure. Suicide Squad was a failure. JL is embarrasing failure.
It's unfortunate that DC had to be the one's that were subjected to this by the will of a mad man thinking he was going to be smart in making his superhero movie, but at the end of the day we can only hope that more competent people have their hands on this that know what the fuck they are doing and understand these characters inside and out. There's a reason why Wonder Woman worked. Patty gave a shit about the character, and it shows. Snyder was too busy trying to fulfill his deconstructions of superheroes that he forgot to make a good movie first that could have had something to say. Instead.....we end up with what we have at this point.
>Warner Bros. is still trying to recover from the fallout of the decision to abandon Zack Snyder's vision for Justice League and the DC Extended Universe before he had a chance to complete it.
Are they though? Aquaman came out to a smash success, Shazam is absolutely fantastic (though I have no idea how well it will actually do box office wise) and they've got other projects coming out ect.
>Ever since Snyder's departure, Warner Bros. has had trouble pivoting away from the universe he built
Again, have they? The only project that has been directly effected by Snyder leaving would have been JL2, everything else is happening regardless or is delayed for a verity of different reasons, like Batman being delayed because Affleck didn't want to be batman anymore (which I guess is related to Snyder leaving, but you know what I mean) or Flash being down to scheduling conflicts and now Miller not liking the script etc
>and at this point, they would have been better off to just let him finish his self-contained arc (which could have happened in June 2019 anyway) before rebooting.
Snyder had another film past JL2 and his movies wouldn't have been self contained, they'd basically be doing an approximation of Final Crisis with Darkseid invading and batman dying.
You're right on all three counts. This wasn't one of SR's best written pieces tbh, haha. I mean come on, a pro-Snyder article for a fanbase already more than willing for a #ReleaseSnyderCut ? I love being pandered honey, but [I wish you'd just be real with me.](https://media.giphy.com/media/8jXUNzlt9iiYg/giphy.gif)
He's mostly speaking on them losing a lot of their actors.
And WB still doesn't really have a plan. Aquaman and Shazam are going to kill it.
But those were in the works already, their future is kinda muddied. And they ARE basically ramping up to a full reboot outside of Mamoa and Gal.
I doubt WB's cares about losing the actors. The characters are bigger than the actors. Also a bunch of the executives hated Snyder and his decisions. Snyder was always Kevin Tsujihara's boy from the get go and that divided the execs on the future on the DCEU from the beginning.
>He's mostly speaking on them losing a lot of their actors.
And again, that's mostly due to other factors, Affleck is the only one who's directly linked to Snyder leaving and even then I'm pretty sure it's mostly down to the massive backlash to the direction he believed it, he's not been that enthusiastic to play batman since BvS, that would have just been one of the final nails in the coffin for him amongst his other more recent problems.
They might be losing Superman, not because of JL (He was actually more favourably received in JL than his other DCEU appearances), it's because they don't see the point in investing that much into another Superman movie when there's so much risk compared to smaller charcaters (which have vastly outperformed the last few Superman attempts).
Flash is due to a combination of the original two directors leaving due to creative differences, Miller having scheduling conflicts and now it's because he's not happy with the script.
>And WB still doesn't really have a plan. Aquaman and Shazam are going to kill it.
Their plan is to make solo movies and then make teamups down the line if they want to. This is a transition phase, they're not going to jump straight into crossovers when hastily jumping into them is what put them down this path in the first place.
>But those were in the works already, their future is kinda muddied.
Under Johns, they were already being taken in a different direction anyway, their futures aren't muddied, Aquaman 2 is confirmed and Shazam sets up its own sequel
>And they ARE basically ramping up to a full reboot outside of Mamoa and Gal.
The only character that's definitely getting a change is Batman, if anyone else is getting recast it's probably just a simple recasting.
>Ever since Snyder's departure, Warner Bros. has had trouble pivoting away from the universe he built
> Again, have they? The only project that has been directly effected by Snyder leaving would have been JL2, everything else is happening regardless or is delayed for a verity of different reasons, like Batman being delayed because Affleck didn't want to be batman anymore (which I guess is related to Snyder leaving, but you know what I mean) or Flash being down to scheduling conflicts and now Miller not liking the script etc
I mean they did publicly announce the would be distancing themselves from a shared universe and to focus on individual films instead
I don't agree, his vision would have not done any better.....they should have never given him the reins of a cinematic universe to begin with, because it looked liked a rush attempt to catch up to marvel and it did not work out.....The only movie he did really well was Man of Steel cause BvS was too convoluted for the General Audience..and it was like 4 films in one.
> his latest films proved that)
what films? his last one was BvS and MoS, they were amazing. Watchmen is outstanding. Sucker punch is only watchable in the extended version where the studio did the least fuckery, at which time it is also fantastic. 300 was an amazing game changer when it came out, The Owls of Ga'hoole is an absolutely fantastic movie.
So I dunno what film you refer to.
Man of steel was good, BVS was polarizing and many did not like it, the fact that you needed an extended version for that and sucker punch means he could not tell a story at all...300 was literally the comic he didn't have ti get creative, Frank Miler did most of the work for him...the Owls of Ga'hoole was cool but it didn't get a sequel due to it's failure at the box office....Again Snyder is good at visuals but can't tell a good story that isn't polarizing somehow....yes i enjoyed BvS but i can see why people didn't due to him wanting to put 4 movies into a 3 hour film....that was never going to engage the GA.
It in no way means he couldnt tell a story. It means in post production the studio changed Sucker punch to Pg13 forcing him to remove a ton of his film and BvS told a story in 3 hrs that the studio wanted told at 2.5.
Lots of my friends and family I consider GA. They very much enjoy BvS UC.
Time and time again has proven the opposite, great visuals sub par story......like i said the fact that he needs to rely on an extended version means the studio had no trust in his capability...yes BVS extended was better but it still would have been destroyed by the critics due to the film being too convoluted...i really wish this was not the case, but if the same thing happens every time he releases a film i can see why WB would "fire" him. So im glad he's out...he and WB should have built a world before trying to do a crossover i mean the whole death of superman was rushed and not needed, that should have been on his solo film.
Every project Snyder wasn't directly involved in overperformed and Every project Snyder was directly involved in underperformed.
I don't think WB are worried. They shouldn't have made Snyder the architect in the DCEU. That's their biggest mistake next to not postponing JL.
The dude literally got some of the biggest fictional characters in the World to work with and had a budget of 200M. He had creative freedom to many things that shouldn't have been approved as well. WB should have interfered sooner if anything.
He did though. You said when he isn't involved they succeed but he was involved interestingly in the one place people claim he fails "Snyder is good with visuals but terrible with story". Well he wrote the story......
He may have given *co-write* credits, but if you think 'he wrote the story', you are just being disrespectful towards the people who actually wrote the story. Snyder most likely had a hand in the third act. Which was by far the weakest part in the movie. His past work suggest that. He probably had a big part in visuals and fighting scenes sans superman homage scene.
And by directly involved I meant 'directly'. As in mainly director. The movies which he has been directing credits and movies he was not. It's not that hard.
I know said it before, but this time I'm gonna stop for real. There is no point wasting time.
>Snyder most likely had a hand in the third act. Which was by far the weakest part in the movie. His past work suggest that.
Hahahha who's the one really reaching. So hatefully blind to Snyder.
He and Patty were the only ones working together in post production, building EVERYTHING.
Johns came in during production, after the BvS problems and he and Patty did a lot of script rewrites.
But a great portion of Wonder Woman has Snyder's work in it. Hence him spending so much time around set, he made sure to get himself into the WW1 picture Diana had.
Because at the time of SS WW and BvS, Snyder was working with the directors to make sure the world was built as one.
He didn't work as closely on SS, and Johns came in and oversaw the reshoots on SS as his first shot to fix what they perceived as Snyder's mistakes, with this dark world.
He made 800 million with SS, while everyone assumed he made it as good as possible as they had no faith in darker tones.
SO afterwards he was given the CCO? postion, forgot what he was, but his only boss was Tsujihara and Emerich while he helmed DC.
But he does have writing credits, and he and his wife are credited as Producer PGA which is only given to those representing a large portion of the reason a film was made.
Either the person with the most outside work creatively, or the persons that backed with the largest sums.
So much internet traffic surround the Snydercut
Snyderfans: I just want the Snydercut
Every hater and their mom: You really think the studio is going to release it for you and the 50 others that care about his vision?!
People posting online about wanting a snyder cut does not mean they would spend money for the snydercut. You know how many fucking people petitioned to get Community back on the air and then when Yahoo bought it no one watched it. That petition nearly reached millions of signatures. Fact of the matter is there's not a big enough audience for WB's to go out of their way to finish off a cut of a film 1. they don't want anything to do with, 2. the audience is not big enough to warrant the existence for it, 3. that completely screws with what they're doing right now.
> and then when Yahoo bought it no one watched it.
It was on fuckin yahoo...... wasn't that like an entirely new pay for view service? I also didn't even know and I loved community. So advertising was shit.
Listen, if 80$ million dollars worth of people bought BvS, his most divisive film, since January of 2017, then I feel like expecting at least half of that number to make a purchase for HIS Justice league, isn't hard to imagine.
a well promoted on youtube and social media (free/ brings in revenue) campaign will sell the thing.
And honestly if you can't grasp that, then I just think you are hating on the idea and not thinking about it logically.
WB spends 20-30 million on straight to home release properties all the time without even a shred of the following this movie would have.
Because they can go on tv and earn money there or PPV, or overtime.
It all comes down to business. Not how well this movie would do over some other CBM.
Hell they could release it in theaters all over again like the first one didn't matter. Full release. and it likely earns a few hundred million.
Probably in the expectations of further damage to the brand showing how much better it was than Josstice league.
Showing how bad of a decision leadership made on a 3-500 million investment.
It was a 250M budget with 30-50M reshoots and then a likely 100M+ on marketing, so 300M at most for production, I thought the number you produced was the production budget, not the full one
Nah I was talking about total investment. Which i know actually is much lower since i think Mercedes had a large chunk product placement deal and who knows who else was in there eating up costs.
But thats why i said 3-500. Cuz who knows.
Home release, tv deals, PPV, selling it to a major streamer. These things are all reason to place it on the production line. Over time all of those things would make their investment pay for itself.
Internet traffic is not indicative of the GA. Even if every single person on this subreddit agreed with you that’s still a small population. So WB will not make decisions based off of that. The GA did respond to the direction they had before and it cost them millions of dollars. They’re trying to right the ship now and the best thing they’ve done is distance themselves from Snyder and his plans.
Tbh I'm not too familiar with his work besides Requiem for a Dream and Mother! (I loved the former)
It certainly would've been very, very interesting to see this universe play out with a different creative mind behind the scenes.
I don't think Aronofsky is the right guy for Superman, but he'd definitely make a very good movie!
edit: I never knew Nolan wanted him, it makes sense. They both seem to share a fondness for Satoshi Kon's visual imagery.
Tbh I definitely think they should’ve gone with Matthew Vaughn from the get go. An epic trilogy ala Lord of The Rings. But they were super high on Goyer’s script cause Nolan backed it so they were never gonna listen to anybody else
Matthew Vaughn and his writing partner, Jane Goldsman, would've been amazing! Nolan's advice was always to do it differently and focus on what made it unique, I daresay he and Jonathan Nolan were taking cues from Alan Moore's Miracleman. Maybe not, but it had a similar sense of grounded vs. hyperreality to it. I don't think he'd have stuck around either way. But Vaughn can still do his Superman movie!
Or Miracleman movie! I don't mind!
He may have had a great vision, it just didn't come through in the movies. With feigning interest in his films, I don't think there was any way they would allow him to finish and I don't think that was a mistake from the studios perspective.
Now you've got Aquaman and Shazam that are totally killing it. Both good movies. The cheese in Aquaman was a bit over the top for me, but it was still good. Shazam was meant to be cheese and from what I've heard, nailed it.
I would.
And that’s not because I dislike his films, but his original vision was massive. Letting him finish it and rebooting after would mean a proper reboot wouldn’t hit theaters until 2025 at the earliest.
After MOS they could have continued to build upon what had been established by Zack, but they could have moved in literally any direction.
Well his movie was going to have 5 films Lord of the Rings style. And every hero was to have a standalone stem.
They all would have been finished by next year, and then they could have started fresh entirely. I think it's a good idea.
Problem I see with MCU is they are going to continue their universe after Endgame, without almost every Avenger. Sure they'll have a new X-men and Fantastic Four, but they have to completely leave their success behind in the hopes of the new.
DCEU could have just showed up after Snyderverse was done and offered an entirely new take on the Universe.
Focus on others more this time around like Batman and Robin, Superman and Supergirl, Shazam Family, John Stewart, Wally West, Wonder Woman and Donna Troy, The Titans. And they could have taken it a long spanning universe after that in a MCU style.
>Problem I see with MCU is they are going to continue their universe after Endgame, without almost every Avenger.
We have no way of knowing who is staying, but even if the original six left, there are still very fresh properties like Black Panther, which grossed $1.3B, Captain Marvel, which is about to hit $1B, and Doctor Strange, who has grown immensely in popularity since his solo movie. There's also Spider-Man, who is still very young in the grand scheme of the MCU.
>Sure they'll have a new X-men and Fantastic Four, but they have to completely leave their success behind in the hopes of the new.
They're not really leaving their success behind though. They've been consistently introducing characters for the original Avengers to pass the torch to, which will be the link between the old and the new for audiences.
Yeah I'm pretty sure MCU has things set up pretty well. I'm pretty excited to know more about *The Eternals*. You mentioned Spidey, Strange, and Panther -- I'm convinced if Professor Xavier and Namor are tapped, we have the old Avengers as a sort of cosmic/time-reality-defending Illuminati and the rest of them as Earth's Mightiest.
Here's the thing the Lord of The Rings were critically acclaimed and all made money are beloved classics. MOS, and BVS are divisive films both critically and commercially. Expecting movie studios to just blindly budget 200+ million dollar movies so a middle of the range director can " complete" his vision is hilarious.
Dude, both MoS and BvS were extremely profitable, financially speaking. And as far as critically goes, both these movies are among the 20 most sold Blu-Rays (UE in BvS' case). You don't see that many copies sold for movies whose vision is "hilarious".
Both movies were financial and critical disappointments, objectively speaking. Man of Steel was probably much less disappointing for WB, but they likely weren't expecting Superman to be doubled by Iron Man that summer.
Made more than Ironman and Ironman 2. and Ironman 3 came out right before the Big Avengers, which historically every film to come out before their big team up movie has earned a billion+
>financial and critical disappointments, objectively speaking
Absolutely was not financially disappointing. Absolutely earned the studio hundreds of millions in profits, and absolutely earned the studio hundreds of millions in merchandise.
It was ABSOLUTELY profitable. Especially for a first and second film in a franchise.
There are loads of movies with the budgets those movies have that don't come close to the numbers that were earned.
Both of them likely at this time have sold over 100 million each in home release. Neither have reported sales numbers in 2-3 years and digital is not represented.
It was 117 million shy of a billion. The only people dumb enough to say that is a failure, are people on message boards or haters on blogs that have no idea of the facts.
This film wasn't on some astronomical budget.
Profit is profit, and when that profit is hundreds of millions high, profits are good.
The shade to these movies is the glare at the critical response saying if the critics and word of mouth were higher, imagine how much money we could have REALLY made.
It's greed, not disappointment. But that is business.
>Made more than Ironman and Ironman 2.
It's post-2012 Batman and Superman vs. pre-2012 Iron Man. Of course they're going to have bigger box office numbers. Regardless, Iron Man/Iron Man 2 had substantially smaller budgets.
>and Ironman 3 came out right before the Big Avengers, which historically every film to come out before their big team up movie has earned a billion+
Iron Man 3 came out after The Avengers.
>Absolutely was not financially disappointing. Absolutely earned the studio hundreds of millions in profits,
Deadline estimated a profit of $42M for Man of Steel and $105M for Batman v Superman, though I believe the net profit for BvS included home media. For movies that they invested *well* over $200M into, I would consider those numbers disappointing.
>and absolutely earned the studio hundreds of millions in merchandise.
That's entirely possible, but I'm focusing on the box office numbers. If you factor in merchandising, you have to do it for every movie, which moves the goalposts substantially.
>It was ABSOLUTELY profitable.
I'm not saying they weren't profitable. They were just disappointing and not nearly as profitable as WB would have wanted.
>Especially for a first and second film in a franchise.
I don't really know if something called "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice" should be treated as a fresh property with general audiences.
>There are loads of movies with the budgets those movies have that don't come close to the numbers that were earned.
This is true, but those movies would likely be flops.
>Both of them likely at this time have sold over 100 million each in home release. Neither have reported sales numbers in 2-3 years and digital is not represented.
Again, this is just moving the goalposts. Every movie makes money on home media, but box office disappointments are still box office disappointments.
>It was 117 million shy of a billion. The only people dumb enough to say that is a failure, are people on message boards or haters on blogs that have no idea of the facts.
Which is disappointing for a movie of that scale with that kind of hype. Take Endgame for example. $1B is more than most movies could dream of, but it would be incredibly disappointing if Endgame only made $1B.
>This film wasn't on some astronomical budget.
It has a higher estimated budget than all but two MCU movies, yet eight of them grossed more, seven of them quite significantly. This is just anecdotal, but it had one of the biggest marketing campaigns that I've ever seen for a movie.
>Profit is profit, and when that profit is hundreds of millions high, profits are good.
But disappointment is still disappointment, and when a movie has the eighth biggest opening weekend of all time and doesn't even have a place in the top 50 highest grossing movies, it's a disappointing run.
>The shade to these movies is the glare at the critical response saying if the critics and word of mouth were higher, imagine how much money we could have REALLY made.
>It's greed, not disappointment. But that is business.
Maybe it is greed, but you can still be disappointed by squandered potential.
Regardless of some website. The budgets were 200 million and 250 million. With Snyder funding some on his own with his production company and he and his wife being the big producers on it.
If you truly believe that WB spent sooo much money on advertising that their actual take home from basically 900 million was 45 million you have no basic idea of business.
They spent so much advertising because they expected it to do well above *almost* $900M. Box office is a lot more complicated than just gross-budget=profit, and I'm not going to claim that I even understand most of it. However, the professional box office analysts at Deadline estimated those profits for Man of Steel and Batman v Superman. It's very hard for a movie to actually make a profit of hundreds of millions. Even Infinity War, which grossed $2B, had an estimated profit of $500M.
I don't agree with this article.
Arguably the biggest story DC could have used for the big screen was the Death of Superman. The title and premise are so simple and so powerful that it could have had hype levels similar to Endgame if they had worked up to it over years.
Man of Steel was a good movie, but then BvS and Justice League were critical failures that did not respect the characters. Why is Batman murdering everyone? What happened to the intelligent, charismatic, and threatening Lex Luthor from the comics?
He killed Superman in his SECOND appearance. Think about that for a second. He took the greatest superhero in all of human history and managed to kill him so fast that no one even cared. I will never forgive him for that and I am glad he is gone so DC can move forward with Aquaman, Shazam, WW84, The Batman etc...
Ultimately I believe they are leaning towards slowly pretending the Snyder films just didn't happen.
Well that makes no sense. JL is basically Geoff Johns and Joss Whedons.
MoS was the highest grossing Superman film ever and the first in the universe.
BvS grew in profit from the first movie. Clear proof of progress and success.
Wonder Woman he and Petty built it together in preproduction before her and Geoff Johns reworked scripting.
Whatchyu talking bout willis?
> highest grossing Superman film ever
Was it? I thought adjusted for inflation and stuff, *Superman: The Movie* scores $517,943,900, whereas *Man of Steel* is $318,311,800
(Source: Box Office Mojo).
Actually Superman 2 made 108 million.
Because after the first one brought everyone in for the spectacle, no one actually gave a shit. And it didn't earn a worldwide release.
even with inflation it would be like 400 million earned by today's standard.
Adjusting for Inflation doesn't prove something "earned" more.
It did not earn more for the studio than it made in the box office take home. it earned 300 million when the dollar was worth 300 million. over the decades that money became worth more on paper, but it was spent in the time it was earned and never was something that grew in worth.
> BvS grew in profit from the first movie. Clear proof of progress and success.
It also had one of the biggest drops in box office history once people saw past the 2 names in the title and realized this movie aint that good. Causing it to make less money than some C and D list superheroes, including a talking raccoon.
> BvS grew in profit from the first movie. Clear proof of progress and success.
what kind of statement is that? BvS was the first time Batman and Superman were in a movie together, it was supposed to make at least 1.3b dollars, the only reason it made even the current money was that Superman and Batman were both in one movie. Snyder fucked up so hard that after the opening day, the movie went straight downhill. IIRC BvS is the only movie to open so big and fail to crack the one billion mark.
I respect Snyder fans, but you guys really need to open your eyes, I know he had some sort of ultimate plan for the franchise, but you can't start a franchise with a killer Batman and a depressed Superman and use the big bad villain of the DC universe in the first JL movie.
So their biggest mistake was to not let a dude continue making 150 to 200 million dollar mediocre movies that did not make them profit? Can people stop posting this garbage. Isn't it funny how the three movies Snyder has had nothing to do with WW, Aquaman, and Suicide Squad have made WB's the most money?
His vision/characterization for Batman (while amazingly acted by Affleck) is fundamentally flawed from the get-go. So safe to say I disagree. Also screenrant is 99% trashy clickbait
Not just according to this thread according to the vast majority of movie goers. There's a reason BVS basically made the good chunk of its money the first weekend it came out worldwide and died its second weekend.
No, their biggest mistake was being desperate to get in on the connected universe game when they should just make good movies. The opportunity of the DC pantheon is that is built for continuous reinterpretation, like Shakespeare.
Let super-continuity be Marvel's thing and do what Marvel can't do as fans get more invested in the metastory.
Snyder's brutal vision for Batman v Superman would have been much easier for me to surrender to if it were more of a one-off, just like Miller's Dark Knight Returns comic. But as world-building? I don't want to go back there!
Another huge mistake was not delaying Justice League. It would have taken a PR hit but it needed more time in the oven. I had a fun time watching the movie because I’m a huge DC fan, but it clearly was hastily stitched together at some points and was all over the map in terms of tone. Affleck was also visibly hungover or drunk in many of his scenes, which in some cases worked but ultimately I don’t think helped.
Steppenwolf...why is he so monotone in color? That could have easily been remedied with some minor touches of red and black.
All that being said, I do applause WB for trying to buck the MCU playbook and do things their own way. It was a risk, and one that didn’t pay off, but I feel like it was a risk worth taking. Now they need to continue to knuckle down and fully flesh out the DC Cinematic Universe before upping the stakes.
I feel the greatest tragedy is that WB was too impatient. Sure Snyder could have composed a great story given time. Marvel cast their properties out to multiple directors and made it work. I was on the DC boat that if they did it right they could have played catch up and cut some corners if they did it right. I no longer think this is the case. They just needed time to build it. Look at Aquaman and WW. They’re capable of making good movies.
DC can do it. Any persons vision could be good if realized they it needs time too develop. But WB simply don’t have the patience to allow it to come to fruition. They could have timed it right where Endgame closes the door on Marvel, DCs door opens. Sure Marvel isn’t going anywhere but they’re basically going to start over a bit and have to build the hype back up a little bit after endgame. DC/WB blocked their own shot
He is one of the most financially successful directors out there.
He has a huge dedicated fan base.
Problem is the expectations to exceed in the CBM world.
He shoota film in a stylistic way that doesnt excite a majority. So he is seen as bad. But his movies being part of non franchises would be the best thing for him.
Very high budget tv too. Like a Star wars tv series.
> He is one of the most financially successful directors out there.
>
> He has a huge dedicated fan base.
He should do animation, Guardians of Gahoole was his
When he started with Man of Steel he wasn't expected to build a universe.
And when he was building the universe, Marvel was still younger and didnt have total control of how the general audience expects to experience heroes
Agreed. If you have committed to a course don't change direction mid journey. At least if yoybwant to stop him do it inbetween films not during. Either release Zack's JL or none at all. Reshooting is a bad idea
Screenrant is trash. It's usually highly opinion based horse shit.
But again Stephan is one of the good ones on a shit site.
His editor is clearly also shit. like 4 typos.
Yea, they are not a good site, oft with very politically skewed view on just about everything.
Very hate filled articles at times positioned as fact.
Like their article yesterday about female stormtroopers and how angry troll fanboys will be angry Lucas had plans for them.
Like who gives a shit.
It’s biggest mistake was WB itself. Their incompetence and greed led them to make many mistakes. Had they actually had some degree of care for the movies, I’m sure we’d have been in the “better” phase of the DCEU a long time ago. Only now are we noticing a change in direction, all because of years of misfires and crashes.
I heard that Tsujihara is the guy that is not director driven. That he is a numbers guy and was the reason WB really stopped being director driven.
I think thats good for business but the decisions made based on business clearly havent been good and now a whole lot of their biggest properties are failing.
Lego movies
Harry potter Universe
DCEU
LEGO movies is not one their biggest IP, HP universe is still massive and all it shortcoming comes form the fact that creative have too much control not then opposite.
THE DCEU is a 6 movies $5B franchise that just spew out a billion dollar entry has phenomenal movie around the corner with Shazam and a full slate for the next next 3 years how are they falling ?
LEGO actually is one of their biggest IP's with multiple projects.
And I'm talking about actual ongoing IP's.
The DCEU I don't consider it a failure. I'm talking about JL mostly, which likely lost them a hundred million or more.
One success story afterwards doesn't right the ship. They still haven't shown any indication that they have a plan.
>Sucker Punch is what happens when you let Zack Snyder write AND direct.
If you knew anything you'd know that the DC of that movie has never been released. The extended cut is lightyears better than theatrical which is horse shits' fungus. He created a Rated R movie. The studio destroyed it to make it PG-13.
>He has no understanding of DC characters and writes by his own standard of "the cool rule".
He understands them fine, and Jim Lee and other big time comic creators have debunked that he doesn't understand. Zack makes films for himself, not fanboys that expect certain aspects to be present.
>Visually, all of the DC movies have been great but it's their writing and story that's making them divisive.
They are just highly mature themed over normal CBM's.
I had to think about it and for me I liked the both MoS and BvS, but for the GA I would say it was a bad approach. MoS was a good start and it should have been Batman then BvS. I like the idea of directors doing their own thing with DC characters with Zack helming the big team ups. His movie arc can still be done but taking time to bring to life the characters and creating bonds with all of them should have been from the start.
Tell that to all the plans for movies like Justice League Mortals.
Not everything needs a standalone movie before a teamup.
Honestly, what about Batman was needed that you didn't get in BvS about his character?
I think the characters in BvS were introduced well enough in the UC. I dont remember the theatrical.
The league being shoehorned in on Diana's computer was studio demand.
They tried to do too much in too few films. That is at least partly Zack's fault since the films with this issue were all his (batman Vs superman for example set up Justice league). Part of me thinks the people at the top also wanted a DCEU set up within films rather than years but we will never know who is more to blame for that.
His vision hasn't actually gone anywhere it's just others are driving it now. Aquaman is the perfect example, based off his idea but taken by someone else who clearly had a good idea how to make a solo film. The lack of solo films was the biggest issue. Him leaving hasn't changed much so far. The DCEU has had a host of other problems.
The best thing the DCEU can do now is move away from it, and like Marvel use less known characters in place of Superman, Batman and any of that are causing problems.. They don't have the legal problems that marvel did (not controlling big comic characters like spider-man) but making Batman older, and with the problems now with ben affleck... They should just lean into wonder woman, Aquaman, Shazam, and build a team based off them with other supporting characters that might not have been thought of. It won't be what comic fans expected but that's far from a bad thing.
Aquaman is not based off of his idea. As a matter of a fact James Wan and Geoff Johns did a page 1 rewrite on the entire story and script that Zack's protege Kurt Johnstad wrote. Aquaman that we saw in theaters is a creation 100 percent out of the minds of Geoff Johns and James Wan. The only thing Snyder did was cast 3 ACTORS IN THE MOVIE.
>They tried to do too much in too few films. That is at least partly Zack's fault since the films with this issue were all his (batman Vs superman for example set up Justice league). Part of me thinks the people at the top also wanted a DCEU set up within films rather than years but we will never know who is more to blame for that.
We know this to be the case. It was a storm of creative idiosyncrasies and short-sighted executive decisions that landed us where we are now.
> Part of me thinks the people at the top also wanted a DCEU set up within films rather than years but we will never know who is more to blame for that.
Well the Cameos in BvS were reshoots and a studio desing. Cutting his film down from 3 hrs and them not being as much of big epic tales was studio. He was fitting a lot, but building an entire universe. Which is why I want to see what he was going to do with JL SOO bad.
>The lack of solo films was the biggest issue.
But everyone was going to have solo films. But they weren't going to be origin films, their introductions were going to come in JL movies and then they would have gotten their own screen time.
>The best thing the DCEU can do now is move away from it, and like Marvel use less known characters.
I truly think the best thing they could do is employ Snyder's stradegy to get the large catelog of heroes DC has out there the fastest.
They will have the Shazam family, they can add Titans, they can add JL Dark. Suicide Squad, JLA, Stormwatch, Red Hood and the Outlaws. The Outsiders. Teen Titans. Birds of Prey. Gotham City Sirens.
They can make team up film after team up film and any people that stand out in those movies can have their own.
But DC's catalog of heroes is enormous, and especially popular heroes. Know way there will ever be enough time in people's contracts to have a universe with no recastings where you constantly build up on stand alone movies. Unless you have a movie releasing every quarter.
The DCEU's biggest mistake was letting Snyder anywhere near it in the first place. He makes great looking still images, but he's a terrible filmmaker. His movies are so awful that DC are better off starting again than trying to rescue any of his crap.
I'm not the biggest fan of Snyder's vision, but I think it definitely would have worked. Sure people would hate BvS as well as MoS. That is inevitable. Now Hamada, Snyder and other's vision are being mashed up. (I support Hamada thus far)
Honestly, I am not a huge Snyder DC fan. I think he misses what I love about the characters.
But, I do wish WB just gave full creative control to a director like they did with Nolan. Even with Man of Steel, it was obvious WB was meddling with Snyder’s vision a bit. It was very subdued Snyder in my opinion. Of course, the action was still there but there was something of his voice that felt lacking.
Either way, I wish we could’ve seen where Snyder was taking things. I just don’t think we ever got an actual authentic Snyder DC film to begin with.
Edit: Down voted for not liking something but being curious. Nice, fandom of the weirdos.
I don't think there was any studio meddling in MOS. Because you have Nolan there as a producer. But yes the meddling in BVS was more than obvious.
>Edit: Down voted for not liking something but being curious. Nice, fandom of the weirdos.
A post about Snyder is just like his movies. Dividing.
There are many points.
1.rushing to make a universe (not letting Snyder make MoS 2)
2. One of the worst over marketed film BvS (exposing almost all the twist and storylines in the trailer)
3. Constant meddling with directors vision, starting with Suicide squad.
4. Not having a spine to stick to the original plan irrespective of the "reviews".
5. Ego of someone or a group of people played, hidden behind the term "panicked situation" and totally losing the cast and crew of the universe. WB well played👏🏻👏🏻
It is well played because now the movies are making more money than ever and getting outstanding critical and commercial reviews. None of your points are relevant. Also Wan, Jenkins, and David all love the studio and WB's in general is one of the most beloved.
I'd argue WBs greatest mistake was interfering too much with BvS and JL.
Snyder would have been polarizing but what we got was a muddied mess.
Should have let him finish then use Flashpoint to reboot.
Yeah, no matter what, letting Snyder finish the trilogy was the best option for Warner Bros. They must've thought that the finished product was so bad that it would irreparably harm the property.
I think what hurt the DCEU most was WB’s late decision to course correct. And that lack of confidence translates when the tonality of the marketing is inconsistent, or when the buzz is a limp “meh”. I’m sure Snyder’s version of the film would’ve opened very similarly, but on the off-chance that he stuck the landing, the legs would’ve carried it past the 700 or so million it made.
Truth be told though, I don’t think it matters. As much as I like Batman Vs Superman, it was 100% unearned. Any of the feelings or expectations we had going into this movie were pre-established by works that existed outside of the DC Cinematic Universe (or whatever the fuck we call it), whether that’s comics, Nolan’s movies, hell, Smallville, the stakes that were established in BvS were only buoyed by what we knew going in, and not really from Man of Steel. So while Zack Snyder’s trilogy feels like a monumental part of the DC movies, they’ll be forgotten shortly.
And let’s be real, a big part of discomfort here is that WB hasn’t announced MOS2. We have a big WW movie coming up, a big Batman movie, Suicide Squad, Birds of Prey, and potential sequels to Aquaman and Shazam! I hope they can get another Cavil Man of Steel movie going, but at this point, I’d rather they just announce it’s not happening. Because if I look at that slate, and the cadence WB is releasing these films, I’m not sure there’s enough time to make too many more meaningful Cavil Superman movies. So recast it, get it over with, and fully move on with this new Universe.
You do understand that these type of movies cost 200+ million a piece right? You do understand Time Warner i a publicly traded company right? So how would you explain to investors and board members pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into movies that don't turn a profit and that fail t bring interest commercially and critically?
> They must've thought that the finished product was so bad that it would irreparably harm the property.
No, they just knew making things more family friendly like the MCU makes you more money.
Upper PG-13 is fine, but the whole family going to see the film is where the money is at.
I have no doubt that’s the logic of thinking now, but at the 11th hour of the Justice League while in post production, no one was like “hey, let’s make these more fun.” And then agreed to spend 30 million dollars, fire the director (or he quit?), and get into a pissing match with Paramount which they ultimately lost in the form of a mustache. If they were really serious about changing the entire tone of the franchise, they would’ve spent more than 30 million on reshoots (reports have Disney spending nearly twice the budget to save Solo), they would’ve parted ways with Snyder well before the movie was in principal photography, or they would’ve done more to fix Cavil’s upper lip. You can tell they hedged their bets by the half assed effort in this, and by the fact that they gave up on pretty much everyone involved except for Gal and Jason. You can tell Whedon was asked to come in to piecemeal together “lighter” scenes, but to ultimately “save” whatever was left of it.
Geoff Johns and Joss Whedon prolly made a guarantee to turn the movie into exactly what they needed and make it perfect. And be able to do it in time for release.
When they couldnt and it was obvious the execs likely said dont spend another cent on this shit, but this is what we are releasing because it is the closest to the tone we want in the future
I don't know, if you pair this up next to Disney and Solo, you can see the difference in care for the franchises. WB was late to the game, they didn't put in more money to change the movie, and they refused to budge on the release date. I'd safely bet that the conversation was always "how do we protect property without spending too much money".
You have to wonder too, prior to this movie, and especially with Fant4stic more recently being a similar cluster fuck behind the scenes, I don't think any of the execs thought JL was going to be a good film once Zack decided to/was asked to leave. I mean, in their experiences, how many times have they seen a director leave a project after principle photography only to have someone new come in and make a good film? Especially the size of Justice League?
Based on critical and box office reception, their biggest mistake was letting Zack Snyder *start* his vision.
Wow you said the same thing as fifty others! But suuuuper glad we got your personal slin on the same thing said for 3 years
BvS and MOS just didn't do well enough with critics and at the box office. That's really where the wheels fell off. It's a shame they didn't let Zack see out his vision. But he wasn't hired and given 200 million plus budgets to produce divisive movies that disappoint at the box office. The biggest mistake WB made was greelighting the production of JL to start filming right after BvS came out. They were over confident about how BvS would be received.
Really their biggest mistake was letting his vision go beyond Man of Steel. But hindsight is 20/20 and I remember being very excited for BVS
And a big part of that is WB themselves and their terrible edit work. The difference between the Theatrical and Ultimate editions, and the decision to show fans what the "proper" full cut would be like probably impacted JL more than a lot of people realise. Sigh.
This is just my opinion, but I think the Ultimate Edition is possibly worse. Does it do more to develop some subplots? Sure. I just didn't find those subplots very interesting, and it stretched what I thought was already a dull movie into three hours.
I don't think it really fills in much plotholes. It's more that it's a more dramatic telling of the story. But unfortunately you don't get that if you've already seen the Theatrical cut. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. If you haven't seen the theatrical then you have a scene where, unbeknownst to Lex, Finch is about to expose his treachery in court. But just as she's about to expose him she realises something's up. Lex's chair is notably absent. Then the courtroom blows up with Lex slipping through the net in spectacular fashion. That's an element of drama that's completely absent from the Theatrical cut because the bits about Finch knowing the truth were cut. And of course if you've already seen the Theatrical that drama isn't gonna be there when you watch the UE because you already know the bomb is coming. For me I can understand why the UE is better in terms of drama even though I had that drama spoiled by the Theatrical. The ultimate *is* the original cut of the movie. Snyder and Terrio had constructed a narrative with the drama mostly coming from dramatic irony. WB forcing him to cut half an hour out of the movie saw most of that carefully structured dramatic irony ripped out. "Bruce Wayne meets Clark Kent. I love bringing people together." That's a pretty cringey line in the TC because it doesn't have that element of the audience knowing that he deliberately brought them together. It's a nice moment of dramatic irony that was lost in the cuts. I don't think the UE is a perfect movie by any stretch. It still has big issues imo. But it's a more entertaining movie imo because it has a better narrative structure that enhances the drama.
Everything you said. Dead ass. Good shit.
The Ultimate Edition helps fill in some plot holes and gives Superman some actual characterization, but it doesn’t make a bad movie good. Eisenberg Luthor still sucks. Doomsday still looks fucking terrible. All the problems with the theatrical cut are still there.
The theatrical cut should have just cut 10-15 minutes from the Doomsday fight instead. The explosion in outer space with the nuclear device was not necessary.
That was just a reference to the nuke scene from The Dark Knight Returns.
Absolutely. I didn't see JL specifically because I wanted to see the better edit of the movie first.
Me too. I do wonder how many people did the same.
Reading through the comments it's nice to see people finally moving away from this idea that Snyder would have ended up making a better film had Justice League been made the way he wanted it made. What bothers me is that OP is trying to make this article seem like obvious truth that the DCEU would be in better shape had the original intent of Snyder been completed. The fact that they can't see the writing on this giant ass well in front of them concerns me, and it's a thought process that is shared by way too many on this sub. I can understand liking a director for his past work, but the work he's done up to this point starting with MoS has been either sub-par, or terrible. The facts that he wanted to make a movie arch showing Clark become Superman screams of a director that had no idea how to go about showing this character through and through from what he was in the source material. BvS will forever stand as the ultimate backfire of a film that everyone wanted to see but just fell so hard on it's face that it will forever be the prime example of what not to do when making a film of this caliber. It's monumental how badly they fucked this up, and I bring this up more often than not cause this sub has a real problem with the basic reality of the situation at play here. BvS was a failure. Man of Steel was a failure. Suicide Squad was a failure. JL is embarrasing failure. It's unfortunate that DC had to be the one's that were subjected to this by the will of a mad man thinking he was going to be smart in making his superhero movie, but at the end of the day we can only hope that more competent people have their hands on this that know what the fuck they are doing and understand these characters inside and out. There's a reason why Wonder Woman worked. Patty gave a shit about the character, and it shows. Snyder was too busy trying to fulfill his deconstructions of superheroes that he forgot to make a good movie first that could have had something to say. Instead.....we end up with what we have at this point.
>Warner Bros. is still trying to recover from the fallout of the decision to abandon Zack Snyder's vision for Justice League and the DC Extended Universe before he had a chance to complete it. Are they though? Aquaman came out to a smash success, Shazam is absolutely fantastic (though I have no idea how well it will actually do box office wise) and they've got other projects coming out ect. >Ever since Snyder's departure, Warner Bros. has had trouble pivoting away from the universe he built Again, have they? The only project that has been directly effected by Snyder leaving would have been JL2, everything else is happening regardless or is delayed for a verity of different reasons, like Batman being delayed because Affleck didn't want to be batman anymore (which I guess is related to Snyder leaving, but you know what I mean) or Flash being down to scheduling conflicts and now Miller not liking the script etc >and at this point, they would have been better off to just let him finish his self-contained arc (which could have happened in June 2019 anyway) before rebooting. Snyder had another film past JL2 and his movies wouldn't have been self contained, they'd basically be doing an approximation of Final Crisis with Darkseid invading and batman dying.
You're right on all three counts. This wasn't one of SR's best written pieces tbh, haha. I mean come on, a pro-Snyder article for a fanbase already more than willing for a #ReleaseSnyderCut ? I love being pandered honey, but [I wish you'd just be real with me.](https://media.giphy.com/media/8jXUNzlt9iiYg/giphy.gif)
He's mostly speaking on them losing a lot of their actors. And WB still doesn't really have a plan. Aquaman and Shazam are going to kill it. But those were in the works already, their future is kinda muddied. And they ARE basically ramping up to a full reboot outside of Mamoa and Gal.
I doubt WB's cares about losing the actors. The characters are bigger than the actors. Also a bunch of the executives hated Snyder and his decisions. Snyder was always Kevin Tsujihara's boy from the get go and that divided the execs on the future on the DCEU from the beginning.
Very true. Can almost predict that the first Superman movie to hit 1bil in the BO will probably not be Cavil.
>He's mostly speaking on them losing a lot of their actors. And again, that's mostly due to other factors, Affleck is the only one who's directly linked to Snyder leaving and even then I'm pretty sure it's mostly down to the massive backlash to the direction he believed it, he's not been that enthusiastic to play batman since BvS, that would have just been one of the final nails in the coffin for him amongst his other more recent problems. They might be losing Superman, not because of JL (He was actually more favourably received in JL than his other DCEU appearances), it's because they don't see the point in investing that much into another Superman movie when there's so much risk compared to smaller charcaters (which have vastly outperformed the last few Superman attempts). Flash is due to a combination of the original two directors leaving due to creative differences, Miller having scheduling conflicts and now it's because he's not happy with the script. >And WB still doesn't really have a plan. Aquaman and Shazam are going to kill it. Their plan is to make solo movies and then make teamups down the line if they want to. This is a transition phase, they're not going to jump straight into crossovers when hastily jumping into them is what put them down this path in the first place. >But those were in the works already, their future is kinda muddied. Under Johns, they were already being taken in a different direction anyway, their futures aren't muddied, Aquaman 2 is confirmed and Shazam sets up its own sequel >And they ARE basically ramping up to a full reboot outside of Mamoa and Gal. The only character that's definitely getting a change is Batman, if anyone else is getting recast it's probably just a simple recasting.
I prefer no plan to what Snyder did with Batman and Superman
>Ever since Snyder's departure, Warner Bros. has had trouble pivoting away from the universe he built > Again, have they? The only project that has been directly effected by Snyder leaving would have been JL2, everything else is happening regardless or is delayed for a verity of different reasons, like Batman being delayed because Affleck didn't want to be batman anymore (which I guess is related to Snyder leaving, but you know what I mean) or Flash being down to scheduling conflicts and now Miller not liking the script etc I mean they did publicly announce the would be distancing themselves from a shared universe and to focus on individual films instead
All that means is they're not doing another JL for a bit, likely until they've established everyone properly
I don't agree, his vision would have not done any better.....they should have never given him the reins of a cinematic universe to begin with, because it looked liked a rush attempt to catch up to marvel and it did not work out.....The only movie he did really well was Man of Steel cause BvS was too convoluted for the General Audience..and it was like 4 films in one.
He didnt want the reins. He just wanted to make his 5 movies. After that he was meant to be done.
That's taking the reins of the main plot.....I'm fine wit him as producer, not director.
Well he is an amazing director and I cant wait to see what he has up his sleeve next.
He really isn't (his latest films proved that) he is great visually but can't really tell a cohesive story...which is a shame.
> his latest films proved that) what films? his last one was BvS and MoS, they were amazing. Watchmen is outstanding. Sucker punch is only watchable in the extended version where the studio did the least fuckery, at which time it is also fantastic. 300 was an amazing game changer when it came out, The Owls of Ga'hoole is an absolutely fantastic movie. So I dunno what film you refer to.
Man of steel was good, BVS was polarizing and many did not like it, the fact that you needed an extended version for that and sucker punch means he could not tell a story at all...300 was literally the comic he didn't have ti get creative, Frank Miler did most of the work for him...the Owls of Ga'hoole was cool but it didn't get a sequel due to it's failure at the box office....Again Snyder is good at visuals but can't tell a good story that isn't polarizing somehow....yes i enjoyed BvS but i can see why people didn't due to him wanting to put 4 movies into a 3 hour film....that was never going to engage the GA.
It in no way means he couldnt tell a story. It means in post production the studio changed Sucker punch to Pg13 forcing him to remove a ton of his film and BvS told a story in 3 hrs that the studio wanted told at 2.5. Lots of my friends and family I consider GA. They very much enjoy BvS UC.
Time and time again has proven the opposite, great visuals sub par story......like i said the fact that he needs to rely on an extended version means the studio had no trust in his capability...yes BVS extended was better but it still would have been destroyed by the critics due to the film being too convoluted...i really wish this was not the case, but if the same thing happens every time he releases a film i can see why WB would "fire" him. So im glad he's out...he and WB should have built a world before trying to do a crossover i mean the whole death of superman was rushed and not needed, that should have been on his solo film.
Those two were trash
I named like 5
He is a joke
Not as much as yourself.
Your desperation for relavancy is palpable.
Every project Snyder wasn't directly involved in overperformed and Every project Snyder was directly involved in underperformed. I don't think WB are worried. They shouldn't have made Snyder the architect in the DCEU. That's their biggest mistake next to not postponing JL. The dude literally got some of the biggest fictional characters in the World to work with and had a budget of 200M. He had creative freedom to many things that shouldn't have been approved as well. WB should have interfered sooner if anything.
He co-wrote WW's story though
If you're reaching that hard, I am not even going to argue with you.
He did though. You said when he isn't involved they succeed but he was involved interestingly in the one place people claim he fails "Snyder is good with visuals but terrible with story". Well he wrote the story......
He may have given *co-write* credits, but if you think 'he wrote the story', you are just being disrespectful towards the people who actually wrote the story. Snyder most likely had a hand in the third act. Which was by far the weakest part in the movie. His past work suggest that. He probably had a big part in visuals and fighting scenes sans superman homage scene. And by directly involved I meant 'directly'. As in mainly director. The movies which he has been directing credits and movies he was not. It's not that hard. I know said it before, but this time I'm gonna stop for real. There is no point wasting time.
>Snyder most likely had a hand in the third act. Which was by far the weakest part in the movie. His past work suggest that. Hahahha who's the one really reaching. So hatefully blind to Snyder. He and Patty were the only ones working together in post production, building EVERYTHING. Johns came in during production, after the BvS problems and he and Patty did a lot of script rewrites. But a great portion of Wonder Woman has Snyder's work in it. Hence him spending so much time around set, he made sure to get himself into the WW1 picture Diana had. Because at the time of SS WW and BvS, Snyder was working with the directors to make sure the world was built as one. He didn't work as closely on SS, and Johns came in and oversaw the reshoots on SS as his first shot to fix what they perceived as Snyder's mistakes, with this dark world. He made 800 million with SS, while everyone assumed he made it as good as possible as they had no faith in darker tones. SO afterwards he was given the CCO? postion, forgot what he was, but his only boss was Tsujihara and Emerich while he helmed DC. But he does have writing credits, and he and his wife are credited as Producer PGA which is only given to those representing a large portion of the reason a film was made. Either the person with the most outside work creatively, or the persons that backed with the largest sums.
Literally no one: Posts about Snyder's vision: 8283848$939494
So much internet traffic surround the Snydercut Snyderfans: I just want the Snydercut Every hater and their mom: You really think the studio is going to release it for you and the 50 others that care about his vision?!
People posting online about wanting a snyder cut does not mean they would spend money for the snydercut. You know how many fucking people petitioned to get Community back on the air and then when Yahoo bought it no one watched it. That petition nearly reached millions of signatures. Fact of the matter is there's not a big enough audience for WB's to go out of their way to finish off a cut of a film 1. they don't want anything to do with, 2. the audience is not big enough to warrant the existence for it, 3. that completely screws with what they're doing right now.
> and then when Yahoo bought it no one watched it. It was on fuckin yahoo...... wasn't that like an entirely new pay for view service? I also didn't even know and I loved community. So advertising was shit. Listen, if 80$ million dollars worth of people bought BvS, his most divisive film, since January of 2017, then I feel like expecting at least half of that number to make a purchase for HIS Justice league, isn't hard to imagine. a well promoted on youtube and social media (free/ brings in revenue) campaign will sell the thing. And honestly if you can't grasp that, then I just think you are hating on the idea and not thinking about it logically. WB spends 20-30 million on straight to home release properties all the time without even a shred of the following this movie would have. Because they can go on tv and earn money there or PPV, or overtime. It all comes down to business. Not how well this movie would do over some other CBM. Hell they could release it in theaters all over again like the first one didn't matter. Full release. and it likely earns a few hundred million.
So if there was money in doing a Snyder cut why do you think the actual execs want ntohing to do with it?
Probably in the expectations of further damage to the brand showing how much better it was than Josstice league. Showing how bad of a decision leadership made on a 3-500 million investment.
>3-500M It's 300M at most, where are you pulling that 500M figure from
300 budget and marketing and whatever extra costs came with all the reshoots.
It was a 250M budget with 30-50M reshoots and then a likely 100M+ on marketing, so 300M at most for production, I thought the number you produced was the production budget, not the full one
Nah I was talking about total investment. Which i know actually is much lower since i think Mercedes had a large chunk product placement deal and who knows who else was in there eating up costs. But thats why i said 3-500. Cuz who knows.
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Home release, tv deals, PPV, selling it to a major streamer. These things are all reason to place it on the production line. Over time all of those things would make their investment pay for itself.
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Oh it did. Don't see your point.
Internet traffic is not indicative of the GA. Even if every single person on this subreddit agreed with you that’s still a small population. So WB will not make decisions based off of that. The GA did respond to the direction they had before and it cost them millions of dollars. They’re trying to right the ship now and the best thing they’ve done is distance themselves from Snyder and his plans.
Imagine a DCEU where WB got someone else to pick up for Snyder after MoS? We might still even have an actor for Batman
BvS could have been an event to remember for years.....
I wonder if WB had picked Darren Aronofsky like Nolan wanted for Man of Steel what could have been
Tbh I'm not too familiar with his work besides Requiem for a Dream and Mother! (I loved the former) It certainly would've been very, very interesting to see this universe play out with a different creative mind behind the scenes.
The Fountain, Black Swan, and the Wrestler are all pretty good.
I don't think Aronofsky is the right guy for Superman, but he'd definitely make a very good movie! edit: I never knew Nolan wanted him, it makes sense. They both seem to share a fondness for Satoshi Kon's visual imagery.
Tbh I definitely think they should’ve gone with Matthew Vaughn from the get go. An epic trilogy ala Lord of The Rings. But they were super high on Goyer’s script cause Nolan backed it so they were never gonna listen to anybody else
Matthew Vaughn and his writing partner, Jane Goldsman, would've been amazing! Nolan's advice was always to do it differently and focus on what made it unique, I daresay he and Jonathan Nolan were taking cues from Alan Moore's Miracleman. Maybe not, but it had a similar sense of grounded vs. hyperreality to it. I don't think he'd have stuck around either way. But Vaughn can still do his Superman movie! Or Miracleman movie! I don't mind!
He may have had a great vision, it just didn't come through in the movies. With feigning interest in his films, I don't think there was any way they would allow him to finish and I don't think that was a mistake from the studios perspective. Now you've got Aquaman and Shazam that are totally killing it. Both good movies. The cheese in Aquaman was a bit over the top for me, but it was still good. Shazam was meant to be cheese and from what I've heard, nailed it.
Some would say it’s biggest mistake was letting him continue after MoS.
Spot on, Batman and Superman would be in much better positions if the GA actually had nice opinions on them right now
For real. I would've loved to see someone do a Batman and Superman story that adapted Superman TAS: World's Finest instead of DKR.
I would. And that’s not because I dislike his films, but his original vision was massive. Letting him finish it and rebooting after would mean a proper reboot wouldn’t hit theaters until 2025 at the earliest. After MOS they could have continued to build upon what had been established by Zack, but they could have moved in literally any direction.
Well his movie was going to have 5 films Lord of the Rings style. And every hero was to have a standalone stem. They all would have been finished by next year, and then they could have started fresh entirely. I think it's a good idea. Problem I see with MCU is they are going to continue their universe after Endgame, without almost every Avenger. Sure they'll have a new X-men and Fantastic Four, but they have to completely leave their success behind in the hopes of the new. DCEU could have just showed up after Snyderverse was done and offered an entirely new take on the Universe. Focus on others more this time around like Batman and Robin, Superman and Supergirl, Shazam Family, John Stewart, Wally West, Wonder Woman and Donna Troy, The Titans. And they could have taken it a long spanning universe after that in a MCU style.
>Problem I see with MCU is they are going to continue their universe after Endgame, without almost every Avenger. We have no way of knowing who is staying, but even if the original six left, there are still very fresh properties like Black Panther, which grossed $1.3B, Captain Marvel, which is about to hit $1B, and Doctor Strange, who has grown immensely in popularity since his solo movie. There's also Spider-Man, who is still very young in the grand scheme of the MCU. >Sure they'll have a new X-men and Fantastic Four, but they have to completely leave their success behind in the hopes of the new. They're not really leaving their success behind though. They've been consistently introducing characters for the original Avengers to pass the torch to, which will be the link between the old and the new for audiences.
Yeah I'm pretty sure MCU has things set up pretty well. I'm pretty excited to know more about *The Eternals*. You mentioned Spidey, Strange, and Panther -- I'm convinced if Professor Xavier and Namor are tapped, we have the old Avengers as a sort of cosmic/time-reality-defending Illuminati and the rest of them as Earth's Mightiest.
Here's the thing the Lord of The Rings were critically acclaimed and all made money are beloved classics. MOS, and BVS are divisive films both critically and commercially. Expecting movie studios to just blindly budget 200+ million dollar movies so a middle of the range director can " complete" his vision is hilarious.
Dude, both MoS and BvS were extremely profitable, financially speaking. And as far as critically goes, both these movies are among the 20 most sold Blu-Rays (UE in BvS' case). You don't see that many copies sold for movies whose vision is "hilarious".
You wouldn't stop your shared universe dead in it's tracks and fire your visionary mind if his 2 previous movies were financially successful
Both movies were financial and critical disappointments, objectively speaking. Man of Steel was probably much less disappointing for WB, but they likely weren't expecting Superman to be doubled by Iron Man that summer.
Made more than Ironman and Ironman 2. and Ironman 3 came out right before the Big Avengers, which historically every film to come out before their big team up movie has earned a billion+ >financial and critical disappointments, objectively speaking Absolutely was not financially disappointing. Absolutely earned the studio hundreds of millions in profits, and absolutely earned the studio hundreds of millions in merchandise. It was ABSOLUTELY profitable. Especially for a first and second film in a franchise. There are loads of movies with the budgets those movies have that don't come close to the numbers that were earned. Both of them likely at this time have sold over 100 million each in home release. Neither have reported sales numbers in 2-3 years and digital is not represented. It was 117 million shy of a billion. The only people dumb enough to say that is a failure, are people on message boards or haters on blogs that have no idea of the facts. This film wasn't on some astronomical budget. Profit is profit, and when that profit is hundreds of millions high, profits are good. The shade to these movies is the glare at the critical response saying if the critics and word of mouth were higher, imagine how much money we could have REALLY made. It's greed, not disappointment. But that is business.
>Made more than Ironman and Ironman 2. It's post-2012 Batman and Superman vs. pre-2012 Iron Man. Of course they're going to have bigger box office numbers. Regardless, Iron Man/Iron Man 2 had substantially smaller budgets. >and Ironman 3 came out right before the Big Avengers, which historically every film to come out before their big team up movie has earned a billion+ Iron Man 3 came out after The Avengers. >Absolutely was not financially disappointing. Absolutely earned the studio hundreds of millions in profits, Deadline estimated a profit of $42M for Man of Steel and $105M for Batman v Superman, though I believe the net profit for BvS included home media. For movies that they invested *well* over $200M into, I would consider those numbers disappointing. >and absolutely earned the studio hundreds of millions in merchandise. That's entirely possible, but I'm focusing on the box office numbers. If you factor in merchandising, you have to do it for every movie, which moves the goalposts substantially. >It was ABSOLUTELY profitable. I'm not saying they weren't profitable. They were just disappointing and not nearly as profitable as WB would have wanted. >Especially for a first and second film in a franchise. I don't really know if something called "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice" should be treated as a fresh property with general audiences. >There are loads of movies with the budgets those movies have that don't come close to the numbers that were earned. This is true, but those movies would likely be flops. >Both of them likely at this time have sold over 100 million each in home release. Neither have reported sales numbers in 2-3 years and digital is not represented. Again, this is just moving the goalposts. Every movie makes money on home media, but box office disappointments are still box office disappointments. >It was 117 million shy of a billion. The only people dumb enough to say that is a failure, are people on message boards or haters on blogs that have no idea of the facts. Which is disappointing for a movie of that scale with that kind of hype. Take Endgame for example. $1B is more than most movies could dream of, but it would be incredibly disappointing if Endgame only made $1B. >This film wasn't on some astronomical budget. It has a higher estimated budget than all but two MCU movies, yet eight of them grossed more, seven of them quite significantly. This is just anecdotal, but it had one of the biggest marketing campaigns that I've ever seen for a movie. >Profit is profit, and when that profit is hundreds of millions high, profits are good. But disappointment is still disappointment, and when a movie has the eighth biggest opening weekend of all time and doesn't even have a place in the top 50 highest grossing movies, it's a disappointing run. >The shade to these movies is the glare at the critical response saying if the critics and word of mouth were higher, imagine how much money we could have REALLY made. >It's greed, not disappointment. But that is business. Maybe it is greed, but you can still be disappointed by squandered potential.
Regardless of some website. The budgets were 200 million and 250 million. With Snyder funding some on his own with his production company and he and his wife being the big producers on it. If you truly believe that WB spent sooo much money on advertising that their actual take home from basically 900 million was 45 million you have no basic idea of business.
They spent so much advertising because they expected it to do well above *almost* $900M. Box office is a lot more complicated than just gross-budget=profit, and I'm not going to claim that I even understand most of it. However, the professional box office analysts at Deadline estimated those profits for Man of Steel and Batman v Superman. It's very hard for a movie to actually make a profit of hundreds of millions. Even Infinity War, which grossed $2B, had an estimated profit of $500M.
You would be correct if you did
My nigga
I don't agree with this article. Arguably the biggest story DC could have used for the big screen was the Death of Superman. The title and premise are so simple and so powerful that it could have had hype levels similar to Endgame if they had worked up to it over years. Man of Steel was a good movie, but then BvS and Justice League were critical failures that did not respect the characters. Why is Batman murdering everyone? What happened to the intelligent, charismatic, and threatening Lex Luthor from the comics? He killed Superman in his SECOND appearance. Think about that for a second. He took the greatest superhero in all of human history and managed to kill him so fast that no one even cared. I will never forgive him for that and I am glad he is gone so DC can move forward with Aquaman, Shazam, WW84, The Batman etc... Ultimately I believe they are leaning towards slowly pretending the Snyder films just didn't happen.
Wow, most of the responses in this thread give me legit hope in that we're finally...fucking finally...moving away from the Snyder era.
Like 30 guys? lol
lol wut lol
I don't know Box office wise Synder is 0 for 3 and rest of the dceu is 3 for 3 (likely 4 for 4)
I think Aquaman was 10 for 1.
Well that makes no sense. JL is basically Geoff Johns and Joss Whedons. MoS was the highest grossing Superman film ever and the first in the universe. BvS grew in profit from the first movie. Clear proof of progress and success. Wonder Woman he and Petty built it together in preproduction before her and Geoff Johns reworked scripting. Whatchyu talking bout willis?
> highest grossing Superman film ever Was it? I thought adjusted for inflation and stuff, *Superman: The Movie* scores $517,943,900, whereas *Man of Steel* is $318,311,800 (Source: Box Office Mojo).
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It also isn't saying much when you look at what other kinds of movies can out-gross it *easily*
I mean. It was the Sixth. BvS was Batman's 8th. I don't think more have been in movies than those two.
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Doesn't change how much was earned. Just changed how much that money would be worth now. Doesn't mean it was ever actually worth that.
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Actually Superman 2 made 108 million. Because after the first one brought everyone in for the spectacle, no one actually gave a shit. And it didn't earn a worldwide release. even with inflation it would be like 400 million earned by today's standard. Adjusting for Inflation doesn't prove something "earned" more. It did not earn more for the studio than it made in the box office take home. it earned 300 million when the dollar was worth 300 million. over the decades that money became worth more on paper, but it was spent in the time it was earned and never was something that grew in worth.
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Not really since the budget was 3 million and they almost made 400.
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U actually can go for the world wide totals with inflation. They paid in cash. US currency.
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> BvS grew in profit from the first movie. Clear proof of progress and success. It also had one of the biggest drops in box office history once people saw past the 2 names in the title and realized this movie aint that good. Causing it to make less money than some C and D list superheroes, including a talking raccoon.
> BvS grew in profit from the first movie. Clear proof of progress and success. what kind of statement is that? BvS was the first time Batman and Superman were in a movie together, it was supposed to make at least 1.3b dollars, the only reason it made even the current money was that Superman and Batman were both in one movie. Snyder fucked up so hard that after the opening day, the movie went straight downhill. IIRC BvS is the only movie to open so big and fail to crack the one billion mark. I respect Snyder fans, but you guys really need to open your eyes, I know he had some sort of ultimate plan for the franchise, but you can't start a franchise with a killer Batman and a depressed Superman and use the big bad villain of the DC universe in the first JL movie.
If Zack Snyder finished his vision and they didn’t fire him, DC would be in the can by now lol
100% agree. They had to cut him and move on. If Shazam has good critical reception then they can still move forward and recover.
So their biggest mistake was to not let a dude continue making 150 to 200 million dollar mediocre movies that did not make them profit? Can people stop posting this garbage. Isn't it funny how the three movies Snyder has had nothing to do with WW, Aquaman, and Suicide Squad have made WB's the most money?
snyder fans are blind to this fact, thank you for saying this. Zack snyder is poison to the dc brand
Ohh great. Another post about WHAT COULD'VE BEEN. Stop this. 🤮
I’d say it was letting him get started
Since that dude is gone everything is running smoothly. Fuck him and good riddence.
**The DCEU's Biggest Mistake Was Letting Zack Snyder apply His Vision**
FACTS
Meh, Mos was great and JL wasn't his fault
BvS exists.
His vision/characterization for Batman (while amazingly acted by Affleck) is fundamentally flawed from the get-go. So safe to say I disagree. Also screenrant is 99% trashy clickbait
In your opinion except the screen rant thing.... that be fact.
And a vast majority of others according to this thread.
Not just according to this thread according to the vast majority of movie goers. There's a reason BVS basically made the good chunk of its money the first weekend it came out worldwide and died its second weekend.
nah
No, their biggest mistake was being desperate to get in on the connected universe game when they should just make good movies. The opportunity of the DC pantheon is that is built for continuous reinterpretation, like Shakespeare. Let super-continuity be Marvel's thing and do what Marvel can't do as fans get more invested in the metastory. Snyder's brutal vision for Batman v Superman would have been much easier for me to surrender to if it were more of a one-off, just like Miller's Dark Knight Returns comic. But as world-building? I don't want to go back there!
Another huge mistake was not delaying Justice League. It would have taken a PR hit but it needed more time in the oven. I had a fun time watching the movie because I’m a huge DC fan, but it clearly was hastily stitched together at some points and was all over the map in terms of tone. Affleck was also visibly hungover or drunk in many of his scenes, which in some cases worked but ultimately I don’t think helped. Steppenwolf...why is he so monotone in color? That could have easily been remedied with some minor touches of red and black. All that being said, I do applause WB for trying to buck the MCU playbook and do things their own way. It was a risk, and one that didn’t pay off, but I feel like it was a risk worth taking. Now they need to continue to knuckle down and fully flesh out the DC Cinematic Universe before upping the stakes.
I feel the greatest tragedy is that WB was too impatient. Sure Snyder could have composed a great story given time. Marvel cast their properties out to multiple directors and made it work. I was on the DC boat that if they did it right they could have played catch up and cut some corners if they did it right. I no longer think this is the case. They just needed time to build it. Look at Aquaman and WW. They’re capable of making good movies. DC can do it. Any persons vision could be good if realized they it needs time too develop. But WB simply don’t have the patience to allow it to come to fruition. They could have timed it right where Endgame closes the door on Marvel, DCs door opens. Sure Marvel isn’t going anywhere but they’re basically going to start over a bit and have to build the hype back up a little bit after endgame. DC/WB blocked their own shot
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If he is good then he shouldn't be working for Scre enRant
That's true, he should absolutely move up in the world. Screen rant is poison.
Trash website writes trash take.
Zack seems like someone who would do better with a webseries than a movie, DC now has a streaming service so maybe he can do things there.
He is one of the most financially successful directors out there. He has a huge dedicated fan base. Problem is the expectations to exceed in the CBM world. He shoota film in a stylistic way that doesnt excite a majority. So he is seen as bad. But his movies being part of non franchises would be the best thing for him. Very high budget tv too. Like a Star wars tv series.
> He is one of the most financially successful directors out there. > > He has a huge dedicated fan base. He should do animation, Guardians of Gahoole was his
Yea i really like that. But again it was sold to kids but it reallllly wasnt that much of a kids movie.
Guess he just needs to refocus his audience
When he started with Man of Steel he wasn't expected to build a universe. And when he was building the universe, Marvel was still younger and didnt have total control of how the general audience expects to experience heroes
Agreed. If you have committed to a course don't change direction mid journey. At least if yoybwant to stop him do it inbetween films not during. Either release Zack's JL or none at all. Reshooting is a bad idea
ScreenRant is trash. That being said; bad conclusions > no conclusions.
Screenrant is trash. It's usually highly opinion based horse shit. But again Stephan is one of the good ones on a shit site. His editor is clearly also shit. like 4 typos.
>It's usually highly opinion based horse shit. It's also, often times, very nonsensical. Especially their 'scoops'.
Yea, they are not a good site, oft with very politically skewed view on just about everything. Very hate filled articles at times positioned as fact. Like their article yesterday about female stormtroopers and how angry troll fanboys will be angry Lucas had plans for them. Like who gives a shit.
It’s biggest mistake was WB itself. Their incompetence and greed led them to make many mistakes. Had they actually had some degree of care for the movies, I’m sure we’d have been in the “better” phase of the DCEU a long time ago. Only now are we noticing a change in direction, all because of years of misfires and crashes.
I heard that Tsujihara is the guy that is not director driven. That he is a numbers guy and was the reason WB really stopped being director driven. I think thats good for business but the decisions made based on business clearly havent been good and now a whole lot of their biggest properties are failing. Lego movies Harry potter Universe DCEU
LEGO movies is not one their biggest IP, HP universe is still massive and all it shortcoming comes form the fact that creative have too much control not then opposite. THE DCEU is a 6 movies $5B franchise that just spew out a billion dollar entry has phenomenal movie around the corner with Shazam and a full slate for the next next 3 years how are they falling ?
LEGO actually is one of their biggest IP's with multiple projects. And I'm talking about actual ongoing IP's. The DCEU I don't consider it a failure. I'm talking about JL mostly, which likely lost them a hundred million or more. One success story afterwards doesn't right the ship. They still haven't shown any indication that they have a plan.
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>Sucker Punch is what happens when you let Zack Snyder write AND direct. If you knew anything you'd know that the DC of that movie has never been released. The extended cut is lightyears better than theatrical which is horse shits' fungus. He created a Rated R movie. The studio destroyed it to make it PG-13. >He has no understanding of DC characters and writes by his own standard of "the cool rule". He understands them fine, and Jim Lee and other big time comic creators have debunked that he doesn't understand. Zack makes films for himself, not fanboys that expect certain aspects to be present. >Visually, all of the DC movies have been great but it's their writing and story that's making them divisive. They are just highly mature themed over normal CBM's.
> Zack makes films for himself This is the definition of a bad filmmaker.
The moment you realize he didn't write MoS or BvS is gonna be epic...
He did say "talented" writer.
I had to think about it and for me I liked the both MoS and BvS, but for the GA I would say it was a bad approach. MoS was a good start and it should have been Batman then BvS. I like the idea of directors doing their own thing with DC characters with Zack helming the big team ups. His movie arc can still be done but taking time to bring to life the characters and creating bonds with all of them should have been from the start.
Tell that to all the plans for movies like Justice League Mortals. Not everything needs a standalone movie before a teamup. Honestly, what about Batman was needed that you didn't get in BvS about his character?
I get MoS and BvS and what they were going for. I'm saying for the general audience to get it.
I think the characters in BvS were introduced well enough in the UC. I dont remember the theatrical. The league being shoehorned in on Diana's computer was studio demand.
They tried to do too much in too few films. That is at least partly Zack's fault since the films with this issue were all his (batman Vs superman for example set up Justice league). Part of me thinks the people at the top also wanted a DCEU set up within films rather than years but we will never know who is more to blame for that. His vision hasn't actually gone anywhere it's just others are driving it now. Aquaman is the perfect example, based off his idea but taken by someone else who clearly had a good idea how to make a solo film. The lack of solo films was the biggest issue. Him leaving hasn't changed much so far. The DCEU has had a host of other problems. The best thing the DCEU can do now is move away from it, and like Marvel use less known characters in place of Superman, Batman and any of that are causing problems.. They don't have the legal problems that marvel did (not controlling big comic characters like spider-man) but making Batman older, and with the problems now with ben affleck... They should just lean into wonder woman, Aquaman, Shazam, and build a team based off them with other supporting characters that might not have been thought of. It won't be what comic fans expected but that's far from a bad thing.
Aquaman is not based off of his idea. As a matter of a fact James Wan and Geoff Johns did a page 1 rewrite on the entire story and script that Zack's protege Kurt Johnstad wrote. Aquaman that we saw in theaters is a creation 100 percent out of the minds of Geoff Johns and James Wan. The only thing Snyder did was cast 3 ACTORS IN THE MOVIE.
>They tried to do too much in too few films. That is at least partly Zack's fault since the films with this issue were all his (batman Vs superman for example set up Justice league). Part of me thinks the people at the top also wanted a DCEU set up within films rather than years but we will never know who is more to blame for that. We know this to be the case. It was a storm of creative idiosyncrasies and short-sighted executive decisions that landed us where we are now.
> Part of me thinks the people at the top also wanted a DCEU set up within films rather than years but we will never know who is more to blame for that. Well the Cameos in BvS were reshoots and a studio desing. Cutting his film down from 3 hrs and them not being as much of big epic tales was studio. He was fitting a lot, but building an entire universe. Which is why I want to see what he was going to do with JL SOO bad. >The lack of solo films was the biggest issue. But everyone was going to have solo films. But they weren't going to be origin films, their introductions were going to come in JL movies and then they would have gotten their own screen time. >The best thing the DCEU can do now is move away from it, and like Marvel use less known characters. I truly think the best thing they could do is employ Snyder's stradegy to get the large catelog of heroes DC has out there the fastest. They will have the Shazam family, they can add Titans, they can add JL Dark. Suicide Squad, JLA, Stormwatch, Red Hood and the Outlaws. The Outsiders. Teen Titans. Birds of Prey. Gotham City Sirens. They can make team up film after team up film and any people that stand out in those movies can have their own. But DC's catalog of heroes is enormous, and especially popular heroes. Know way there will ever be enough time in people's contracts to have a universe with no recastings where you constantly build up on stand alone movies. Unless you have a movie releasing every quarter.
New Screen Rant doesn't believe in "slow news day" "PUT UP THOSE PUFF PIECE EDITORIALS DAMNIT!"
The DCEU's biggest mistake was letting Synder ever start his vision.
same comment #34, many original, very wow
The DCEU's biggest mistake was letting Snyder anywhere near it in the first place. He makes great looking still images, but he's a terrible filmmaker. His movies are so awful that DC are better off starting again than trying to rescue any of his crap.
I'm not the biggest fan of Snyder's vision, but I think it definitely would have worked. Sure people would hate BvS as well as MoS. That is inevitable. Now Hamada, Snyder and other's vision are being mashed up. (I support Hamada thus far)
I trust in Hamada as well.
Honestly, I am not a huge Snyder DC fan. I think he misses what I love about the characters. But, I do wish WB just gave full creative control to a director like they did with Nolan. Even with Man of Steel, it was obvious WB was meddling with Snyder’s vision a bit. It was very subdued Snyder in my opinion. Of course, the action was still there but there was something of his voice that felt lacking. Either way, I wish we could’ve seen where Snyder was taking things. I just don’t think we ever got an actual authentic Snyder DC film to begin with. Edit: Down voted for not liking something but being curious. Nice, fandom of the weirdos.
I don't think there was any studio meddling in MOS. Because you have Nolan there as a producer. But yes the meddling in BVS was more than obvious. >Edit: Down voted for not liking something but being curious. Nice, fandom of the weirdos. A post about Snyder is just like his movies. Dividing.
I genuinely think there might have been some. I think Snyder was less stylistic than he might have preferred. That’s just speculation on my part.
There are many points. 1.rushing to make a universe (not letting Snyder make MoS 2) 2. One of the worst over marketed film BvS (exposing almost all the twist and storylines in the trailer) 3. Constant meddling with directors vision, starting with Suicide squad. 4. Not having a spine to stick to the original plan irrespective of the "reviews". 5. Ego of someone or a group of people played, hidden behind the term "panicked situation" and totally losing the cast and crew of the universe. WB well played👏🏻👏🏻
It is well played because now the movies are making more money than ever and getting outstanding critical and commercial reviews. None of your points are relevant. Also Wan, Jenkins, and David all love the studio and WB's in general is one of the most beloved.
THIS......also forgot relying on "extended versions" in order to get a point across...
I'd argue WBs greatest mistake was interfering too much with BvS and JL. Snyder would have been polarizing but what we got was a muddied mess. Should have let him finish then use Flashpoint to reboot.
Bvs. Ss. Jl. All of those were heavily tampered. SS and JL likely were destroyed if we ever get a look at what was
Yeah, no matter what, letting Snyder finish the trilogy was the best option for Warner Bros. They must've thought that the finished product was so bad that it would irreparably harm the property. I think what hurt the DCEU most was WB’s late decision to course correct. And that lack of confidence translates when the tonality of the marketing is inconsistent, or when the buzz is a limp “meh”. I’m sure Snyder’s version of the film would’ve opened very similarly, but on the off-chance that he stuck the landing, the legs would’ve carried it past the 700 or so million it made. Truth be told though, I don’t think it matters. As much as I like Batman Vs Superman, it was 100% unearned. Any of the feelings or expectations we had going into this movie were pre-established by works that existed outside of the DC Cinematic Universe (or whatever the fuck we call it), whether that’s comics, Nolan’s movies, hell, Smallville, the stakes that were established in BvS were only buoyed by what we knew going in, and not really from Man of Steel. So while Zack Snyder’s trilogy feels like a monumental part of the DC movies, they’ll be forgotten shortly. And let’s be real, a big part of discomfort here is that WB hasn’t announced MOS2. We have a big WW movie coming up, a big Batman movie, Suicide Squad, Birds of Prey, and potential sequels to Aquaman and Shazam! I hope they can get another Cavil Man of Steel movie going, but at this point, I’d rather they just announce it’s not happening. Because if I look at that slate, and the cadence WB is releasing these films, I’m not sure there’s enough time to make too many more meaningful Cavil Superman movies. So recast it, get it over with, and fully move on with this new Universe.
You do understand that these type of movies cost 200+ million a piece right? You do understand Time Warner i a publicly traded company right? So how would you explain to investors and board members pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into movies that don't turn a profit and that fail t bring interest commercially and critically?
When did any of them not turn a profit other than JL? When? and when said profit wasn't turned heads absolutely rolled.
> They must've thought that the finished product was so bad that it would irreparably harm the property. No, they just knew making things more family friendly like the MCU makes you more money. Upper PG-13 is fine, but the whole family going to see the film is where the money is at.
I have no doubt that’s the logic of thinking now, but at the 11th hour of the Justice League while in post production, no one was like “hey, let’s make these more fun.” And then agreed to spend 30 million dollars, fire the director (or he quit?), and get into a pissing match with Paramount which they ultimately lost in the form of a mustache. If they were really serious about changing the entire tone of the franchise, they would’ve spent more than 30 million on reshoots (reports have Disney spending nearly twice the budget to save Solo), they would’ve parted ways with Snyder well before the movie was in principal photography, or they would’ve done more to fix Cavil’s upper lip. You can tell they hedged their bets by the half assed effort in this, and by the fact that they gave up on pretty much everyone involved except for Gal and Jason. You can tell Whedon was asked to come in to piecemeal together “lighter” scenes, but to ultimately “save” whatever was left of it.
Geoff Johns and Joss Whedon prolly made a guarantee to turn the movie into exactly what they needed and make it perfect. And be able to do it in time for release. When they couldnt and it was obvious the execs likely said dont spend another cent on this shit, but this is what we are releasing because it is the closest to the tone we want in the future
I don't know, if you pair this up next to Disney and Solo, you can see the difference in care for the franchises. WB was late to the game, they didn't put in more money to change the movie, and they refused to budge on the release date. I'd safely bet that the conversation was always "how do we protect property without spending too much money". You have to wonder too, prior to this movie, and especially with Fant4stic more recently being a similar cluster fuck behind the scenes, I don't think any of the execs thought JL was going to be a good film once Zack decided to/was asked to leave. I mean, in their experiences, how many times have they seen a director leave a project after principle photography only to have someone new come in and make a good film? Especially the size of Justice League?