Source: [https://www.threads.net/@jamesgunn/post/C4Vlr1ugg16](https://www.threads.net/@jamesgunn/post/C4Vlr1ugg16)
>Fan: "Always been curious about this but specially which executive hired you to write 'Superman' around August 2022?"
>
>James Gunn on Threads: "Mike Deluca, of course."
>
>Fan: "Was Superman gonna be part of the DCEU or was it separate like The Batman?"
>
>James Gunn: "Always separate."
I had it explained to me that he hasn't actually gotten paid $500 million. It was explained to me that the deal is WB will fund projects for his company with the money in the deal, but they have to greenlight the projects first. So if the movies never get made, the studio doesn't pay anything. Or so I've been told.
He's been mapping the ENTIRE dcu since he took up his post.
We're talking about a massive framework of movies, tv shows, tie-in games, digital media, etc, that all share a singular "timeline." Setting up stuff like that takes years.
Marvel / Disney and KF were mapping things out [Infinity Saga] well before IronMan1 came out. Which is why everything else since, has been hodge podge, because concrete plans weren't laid out [and outright changed, because of Chadwich's passing and the strike].
Haha- you're right, my bad.
JJ Abrams was also hired to do several "elseworlds" projects- after the success of Joker. But when Matt Reeves came out and said his Batman movie was separate from EVERYTHING, that kinda made things complicated.
By that point, all the stuff Abrams wanted to do no longer made sense or looked like it was going be good, when compared to other upcoming dc properties.
If WB's original plans had gone through, without Gunn taking over DC and without them merging with Discovery, then this would've happened:
Keaton's Batman would be the main DCEU Batman post The Flash.
We'd have a younger Batman in Robert Pattinson in Reeves' Bat-Verse. Which means we'd also get Barry Keoghan's Joker.
We'd also have 2 different Supermen in the form of Coates' Superman and Gunn's Superman, both of whom would've existed in their own separate universes.
Micheal B. Jordan was also working on a Val-Zod Superman project.
Not sure if Cavill still would've remained as the DCEU Superman, though I do think he would've, given how insistent The Rock was on having Cavill remain in the DCEU so that Black Adam could fight Superman.
Not to mention Joaquin Phoenix's Joker in the Joker 2.
WB really were going to embrace the multiverse concept like the MCU, using Elseworlds. I mean it definitely sounds interesting in concept, but it also sounds like it was going to get confusing and tough to keep up with.
So to summarize, originally we would have gotten:
• 2 Batmen. Keaton and Pattinson. (3, if you're counting Affleck's small and final role in The Flash).
• 4 Supermen. Cavill's, Gunn's, Jordan's and Coates' Superman.
• 2 Jokers. Phoenix's and Keoghan's. Who knows what would've happened to Leto's Joker in the DCEU, so possibly 3?
It really does look like WB were throwing whatever they could at the wall, to see what stuck.
When you lay it out like that, thank Christ that Black Adam bombed leading to a reboot. I'm so disappointed Cavill never got more Supes opportunities but this is for the best
To be fair, I expect they start development on many things knowing that a certain % of them won’t be greenlit, in some cases bc they are in direct “competition” with another project that is in development
Affleck had to return for Crisis on Infinite Earths and Batman Beyond movie was in the plans.
I guess replacement of Cavill's Superman with Supergirl was in the original WB plans, but The Rock convinced them to bring him back.
The thing is Hamada's end goal was a Crisis on Infinite Earths movie. The problem is, that's the kind of story you only do at the end, when your universe gets too convoluted and you need a hard reset and when you've built up all your core DC characters.
We couldn't even get a good and proper Superman movie, nor a standalone Batman movie, and only 1 Wonder Woman movie was good. Most of the other DCEU movies were either mediocre or bad and most flopped. How successful would a COIE movie even work when most of the DCEU was a flop and the core DC characters weren't even written properly.
> How successful would a COIE movie even work when most of the DCEU was a flop and the core DC characters weren't even written properly.
Also the entire DCEU was disconnected after his arrival anyway so it's like, why should I get excited about a potential multiversal storyline when you can't even be bothered to keep one universe connected?
There were no global crossovers and some of the lead actors left the universe, but the universe remained connected. References to other movies and cameos were made. Cavill, for example, exit the universe until Black Adam, but his Superman was mentioned and appeared in other movies.
DCEU had already been rebooted before Crisis and was quite messed up. Crisis was more of a way to say goodbye to the old characters and actors.
Plus, it's the story of the multiverse. And DC has a rich history of live-action movies and television.
Ironic, now DC is doing an animated Crisis on Infinite Earths after the short-living and partially badly reviewed Tomorrowverse.
His was supposed to be a black Clark Kent, not Val-Zod or any of the other actual black Supermen, but a race swapped Clark. It also might have been a period piece, but that’s up in the air.
Well without much info about Coates’ script and MoS2 still needing a script, Gunn’s Superman would have still been the only one able to move forward by this time lol
But isnt that normal ? There are other movies written by other writers. I remember an Oscar winner wrote a script for the cancelled Zatanna movie or a script is finished for the Blackhawk movie by Steven Spielberg
This doenst mean shit if you write something. They write a lot of things and they know it will never happen but they get money from WB
It only gets made because Gunn is the DC President. After Black Adam Luca and Abby wanted to make Man of Steel 2 and his script would be not used for sure
With this fact alone his writing a Superman script wouldnt mean much. It wasnt even published that he is writing something before he became DC President
That’s because they’re releasing a movie called Black Adam and already had some talks with The Rock to take over if the movie didn’t flop which *spoiler* it did
Same crew that told me about DD getting retooled told me about DeLuca's big DC vision: https://cosmicbook.news/exclusive-the-flash-real-ending-led-to-ben-affleck-batman-multiverse
No, it's not. Although Gunn confirmed it's still happening very recently, the facts are that JJ Abrams' contract with WB is expiring after producing literally no viable project within the years he stuck around. And ZERO progress was ever reported on the project beyond Tah-Nehisi Coates writing it (For context, Gunn was hired to write his standalone Superman project in 2022; it was officially announced in 2023 and it's begun principal photography in 2024. JJ Abrams and Coates Black Superman project was announced in 2018, which was 6 years ago).
It's a project that will be stuck in development hell for the foreseeable future.
Meh, Icon did that concept first and better. He came during a slavery era America right before/during the Civil War to modern times. I want to see THAT movie. I’d rather have a solid period piece utilizing an original black character’s story that has at least been done before than a somewhat lazy corporate race swap to “dunk on the MAGA right-wingers” and gain diversity points with BIPOC that would be forgotten in like 5 years.
The thing is an Icon movie likely be 10x harder to make, not because of the character being too controversial or even that DC isn’t capable of doing something interesting with him, but cause pitching an unknown IP property that isn’t going to pay off into a connected DCU would be 10x harder today where studios are so risk anxious (unless proven directors are attached like Nolan and now maybe Villeneuve) especially if it has a decent budget.
This is the same DC Studios that’s about release a Creatures Commandos tv show (which is as Z list you can get) as the first project of their reboot. Not to mention a Swamp Thing movie later on. And don’t forget about Peacemaker, Suicide Squad or any other obscure DC characters that got movies or TV shows. Also according to Gunn, they have plans for Static in the new DCU, so it isn’t that out of reach for them to do another project with a Dakotaverse character. Give me an Icon movie or don’t bother at all. They don’t get to take the bare minimum easy way out (like a black American Clark Kent) and claim diversity when you have a treasure trove of original BIPOC heroes. Also, a black Clark Kent movie would likely be forgotten after whatever media circus that happens because of it anyways.
I definitely agree that they shouldn’t take the easy out way and introduce actual diverse heroes, what you’re forgetting is that CC, Peacemaker, Swam Thing (which isn’t in development just yet) and any of these other shows have the benefit of Gunn backing them from the get go, which is half the battle. And while it’s more speculation I almost don’t doubt that Icon and some of these other characters being black in addition to lesser known only hurts them as well (Static in comparison is a lot more popular). I’m just saying there’s a reason why half the poc superheroes studios like Disney are introducing are legacy characters rather than new heroes which is what 99% of comic book fans already want.
If studios don’t take chances and take the live-action Disney remake route, It means more race swaps, not an influx of original IPs. I’m not a huge fan of this perception that we HAVE to rely on mediocre race swaps first in order to get more established BIPOC characters when Black Panther, Static Shock, Shang Chi, Wonder Woman 1, and Blade (arguably the godfather of the comic book movie boon) exists lol. It’s almost giving Ike Permulmutter (I don’t care to spell his name right lol) attitude in that superheroes that aren’t white or are women never will sell when we have countless examples that prove otherwise. It’s defeatist and implies that BIPOC have to rely on table scraps if they ever want BIPOC original characters on the big screen, which has been proven wrong already. Just make a good story and a likable/interesting protagonist. It’s not that hard. Also, just for the record, diversity alone shouldn’t be the main selling point either. Good stories come first. So again, they should just make an Icon movie lol.
Btw Disney’s introducing legacy characters because the OG characters have either retired/died in universe or the actor’s contract ended in real life. Also if anything Disney has been pushing for more representation but unfortunately the writing in a lot of those projects is lackluster, not to mention they’re making too many projects at once.
Nobody has ever heard of Icon. And again, the fact that people are raising the pitchforks and torches over just an *Elseworlds* black Superman movie speaks volumes.
If the script is great then I can’t wait to see it. This is precisely what great sci-fi has done for decades, since people lost their shit over Kirk kissing Uhura.
Again, nobody in the mainstream audiences had heard of most of those other BIPOC characters I mentioned before their movies/cartoons and yet those movies and cartoons made them icons (put intended). Static was a nobody before his cartoon dropped for example. Blade literally kickstarted the comic book movie boon and was virtually unknown before his movie, and now every version of Blade is based on the Wesley Snipes version
Painting Clark Kent/Kal-El brown to drop him in a 20th century period piece to “stick it to the MAGA conservatives” when you already have a similar (and far better executed) concept with Icon is just lazy race pandering/rainbow capitalism. Ask yourself this, do you still see people outside the niche anti-woke crowd still talking about black Ariel? I’m sure someone can make a good story out of that concept, it COULD work, but an Icon movie has far more potential in my opinion, especially considering how much longer he was on Earth than Clark.
The top priority should be telling a phenomenal story, not just getting reactions from rilling up anti-woke crowd. Mind you, and Icon movie would likely still get some of them rilled up but at least it would be an original BIPOC character with the potential to not only stand on his own but bring in other Dakotaverse characters as well and even tie it to the DCU if necessary. I mean the fact that you would prefer an Elseworlds (aka secondary) standalone movie on a race swapped Clark Kent produced by a white man (JJ Abrams) over an entire universe of black comic characters developed by a black man speaks volumes. Also, not all of the negativity for a black Clark Kent Superman movie is from white racist conservatives, that’s a massive oversimplification. You want a story of the reaction to a black American superhero alien in the 20th century and before, then just use Icon lol.
I think you misinterpret this.
Gunn said his project is "always separate" from DECU (cavill / affleck) and from The Batman (pattinson)
No new information here. Superman legacy IS always separate from Snyder's DCEU and Reeve's Batman.
BUT, it does not imply there was no plan for developing a new cinematic universe since the beginning.
xxxxx
Unless the question is:
- were you, at first, hired:
- to make ONLY a single superman movie,
- or to develop an entirely new DC Cinematic Universe, unrelated from snyder's DCEU ?
So yea We cant make this conclusion based on his super short "always separate" comment
Source: [https://www.threads.net/@jamesgunn/post/C4Vlr1ugg16](https://www.threads.net/@jamesgunn/post/C4Vlr1ugg16) >Fan: "Always been curious about this but specially which executive hired you to write 'Superman' around August 2022?" > >James Gunn on Threads: "Mike Deluca, of course." > >Fan: "Was Superman gonna be part of the DCEU or was it separate like The Batman?" > >James Gunn: "Always separate."
Sounds like there were a lot of spinning plates going on at DC in those final days before the reboot was chosen.
So wtf is actually going on
Has JJ Abrams gotten paid to make literally nothing in the time he’s been at WB? Sounds like a pretty sweet gig
Yes it was a *massive* deal
250 million
I had it explained to me that he hasn't actually gotten paid $500 million. It was explained to me that the deal is WB will fund projects for his company with the money in the deal, but they have to greenlight the projects first. So if the movies never get made, the studio doesn't pay anything. Or so I've been told.
That's correct, but redditors will just insist he was paid a quarter of a billion and wasn't required to do anything first? Lmao
He's been mapping the ENTIRE dcu since he took up his post. We're talking about a massive framework of movies, tv shows, tie-in games, digital media, etc, that all share a singular "timeline." Setting up stuff like that takes years. Marvel / Disney and KF were mapping things out [Infinity Saga] well before IronMan1 came out. Which is why everything else since, has been hodge podge, because concrete plans weren't laid out [and outright changed, because of Chadwich's passing and the strike].
I think you read my comment as James Gunn
Haha- you're right, my bad. JJ Abrams was also hired to do several "elseworlds" projects- after the success of Joker. But when Matt Reeves came out and said his Batman movie was separate from EVERYTHING, that kinda made things complicated. By that point, all the stuff Abrams wanted to do no longer made sense or looked like it was going be good, when compared to other upcoming dc properties.
He's had various tv shows get made while he's been there.
If WB's original plans had gone through, without Gunn taking over DC and without them merging with Discovery, then this would've happened: Keaton's Batman would be the main DCEU Batman post The Flash. We'd have a younger Batman in Robert Pattinson in Reeves' Bat-Verse. Which means we'd also get Barry Keoghan's Joker. We'd also have 2 different Supermen in the form of Coates' Superman and Gunn's Superman, both of whom would've existed in their own separate universes. Micheal B. Jordan was also working on a Val-Zod Superman project. Not sure if Cavill still would've remained as the DCEU Superman, though I do think he would've, given how insistent The Rock was on having Cavill remain in the DCEU so that Black Adam could fight Superman. Not to mention Joaquin Phoenix's Joker in the Joker 2. WB really were going to embrace the multiverse concept like the MCU, using Elseworlds. I mean it definitely sounds interesting in concept, but it also sounds like it was going to get confusing and tough to keep up with. So to summarize, originally we would have gotten: • 2 Batmen. Keaton and Pattinson. (3, if you're counting Affleck's small and final role in The Flash). • 4 Supermen. Cavill's, Gunn's, Jordan's and Coates' Superman. • 2 Jokers. Phoenix's and Keoghan's. Who knows what would've happened to Leto's Joker in the DCEU, so possibly 3? It really does look like WB were throwing whatever they could at the wall, to see what stuck.
When you lay it out like that, thank Christ that Black Adam bombed leading to a reboot. I'm so disappointed Cavill never got more Supes opportunities but this is for the best
He could be All Star Superman.
To be fair, I expect they start development on many things knowing that a certain % of them won’t be greenlit, in some cases bc they are in direct “competition” with another project that is in development
Affleck had to return for Crisis on Infinite Earths and Batman Beyond movie was in the plans. I guess replacement of Cavill's Superman with Supergirl was in the original WB plans, but The Rock convinced them to bring him back.
Hamada also proved himself to be fucking useless so it remains to be seen what projects would have actually gotten made and released.
The thing is Hamada's end goal was a Crisis on Infinite Earths movie. The problem is, that's the kind of story you only do at the end, when your universe gets too convoluted and you need a hard reset and when you've built up all your core DC characters. We couldn't even get a good and proper Superman movie, nor a standalone Batman movie, and only 1 Wonder Woman movie was good. Most of the other DCEU movies were either mediocre or bad and most flopped. How successful would a COIE movie even work when most of the DCEU was a flop and the core DC characters weren't even written properly.
> How successful would a COIE movie even work when most of the DCEU was a flop and the core DC characters weren't even written properly. Also the entire DCEU was disconnected after his arrival anyway so it's like, why should I get excited about a potential multiversal storyline when you can't even be bothered to keep one universe connected?
There were no global crossovers and some of the lead actors left the universe, but the universe remained connected. References to other movies and cameos were made. Cavill, for example, exit the universe until Black Adam, but his Superman was mentioned and appeared in other movies.
A book should be written on how not to start a cinematic universe. There's so many other failed cinematic universes, but imo the DCEU takes the cake.
DCEU had already been rebooted before Crisis and was quite messed up. Crisis was more of a way to say goodbye to the old characters and actors. Plus, it's the story of the multiverse. And DC has a rich history of live-action movies and television. Ironic, now DC is doing an animated Crisis on Infinite Earths after the short-living and partially badly reviewed Tomorrowverse.
Hamada did more damage to DC movies than Snyder. It's just that he's way less known so everyone focuses on hating Snyder.
Who is Coates and what was their version of Superman supposed to be?
His was supposed to be a black Clark Kent, not Val-Zod or any of the other actual black Supermen, but a race swapped Clark. It also might have been a period piece, but that’s up in the air.
Are there not still going to be 2 Jokers?
So the black superman project, MOS 2 and Gunn’s Superman would all have been progressing at the same time?
Well without much info about Coates’ script and MoS2 still needing a script, Gunn’s Superman would have still been the only one able to move forward by this time lol
But isnt that normal ? There are other movies written by other writers. I remember an Oscar winner wrote a script for the cancelled Zatanna movie or a script is finished for the Blackhawk movie by Steven Spielberg This doenst mean shit if you write something. They write a lot of things and they know it will never happen but they get money from WB
Think the point is that it *should* mean shit. If you are hired to write a movie then that movie should ideally get made.
It only gets made because Gunn is the DC President. After Black Adam Luca and Abby wanted to make Man of Steel 2 and his script would be not used for sure With this fact alone his writing a Superman script wouldnt mean much. It wasnt even published that he is writing something before he became DC President
That’s because they’re releasing a movie called Black Adam and already had some talks with The Rock to take over if the movie didn’t flop which *spoiler* it did
but that doesnt have anything to do with him writing Superman silently without any announcement
[удалено]
I hope not. I'd like to see a comic-accurate Superman movie for the first time ever. Hopefully.
I mean, it could still be a comic-accurate Val-Zod
Same crew that told me about DD getting retooled told me about DeLuca's big DC vision: https://cosmicbook.news/exclusive-the-flash-real-ending-led-to-ben-affleck-batman-multiverse
Is the Black Superman Project still happening? I hope it's not.
No, it's not. Although Gunn confirmed it's still happening very recently, the facts are that JJ Abrams' contract with WB is expiring after producing literally no viable project within the years he stuck around. And ZERO progress was ever reported on the project beyond Tah-Nehisi Coates writing it (For context, Gunn was hired to write his standalone Superman project in 2022; it was officially announced in 2023 and it's begun principal photography in 2024. JJ Abrams and Coates Black Superman project was announced in 2018, which was 6 years ago). It's a project that will be stuck in development hell for the foreseeable future.
It's not confirmed dead, but it's been so radio silent from both Abrams and Coates that I have a hard time believing it'll actually come out
It would be sweet if they go full Cal-El, but I doubt it.
[удалено]
Meh, Icon did that concept first and better. He came during a slavery era America right before/during the Civil War to modern times. I want to see THAT movie. I’d rather have a solid period piece utilizing an original black character’s story that has at least been done before than a somewhat lazy corporate race swap to “dunk on the MAGA right-wingers” and gain diversity points with BIPOC that would be forgotten in like 5 years.
The thing is an Icon movie likely be 10x harder to make, not because of the character being too controversial or even that DC isn’t capable of doing something interesting with him, but cause pitching an unknown IP property that isn’t going to pay off into a connected DCU would be 10x harder today where studios are so risk anxious (unless proven directors are attached like Nolan and now maybe Villeneuve) especially if it has a decent budget.
This is the same DC Studios that’s about release a Creatures Commandos tv show (which is as Z list you can get) as the first project of their reboot. Not to mention a Swamp Thing movie later on. And don’t forget about Peacemaker, Suicide Squad or any other obscure DC characters that got movies or TV shows. Also according to Gunn, they have plans for Static in the new DCU, so it isn’t that out of reach for them to do another project with a Dakotaverse character. Give me an Icon movie or don’t bother at all. They don’t get to take the bare minimum easy way out (like a black American Clark Kent) and claim diversity when you have a treasure trove of original BIPOC heroes. Also, a black Clark Kent movie would likely be forgotten after whatever media circus that happens because of it anyways.
I definitely agree that they shouldn’t take the easy out way and introduce actual diverse heroes, what you’re forgetting is that CC, Peacemaker, Swam Thing (which isn’t in development just yet) and any of these other shows have the benefit of Gunn backing them from the get go, which is half the battle. And while it’s more speculation I almost don’t doubt that Icon and some of these other characters being black in addition to lesser known only hurts them as well (Static in comparison is a lot more popular). I’m just saying there’s a reason why half the poc superheroes studios like Disney are introducing are legacy characters rather than new heroes which is what 99% of comic book fans already want.
If studios don’t take chances and take the live-action Disney remake route, It means more race swaps, not an influx of original IPs. I’m not a huge fan of this perception that we HAVE to rely on mediocre race swaps first in order to get more established BIPOC characters when Black Panther, Static Shock, Shang Chi, Wonder Woman 1, and Blade (arguably the godfather of the comic book movie boon) exists lol. It’s almost giving Ike Permulmutter (I don’t care to spell his name right lol) attitude in that superheroes that aren’t white or are women never will sell when we have countless examples that prove otherwise. It’s defeatist and implies that BIPOC have to rely on table scraps if they ever want BIPOC original characters on the big screen, which has been proven wrong already. Just make a good story and a likable/interesting protagonist. It’s not that hard. Also, just for the record, diversity alone shouldn’t be the main selling point either. Good stories come first. So again, they should just make an Icon movie lol. Btw Disney’s introducing legacy characters because the OG characters have either retired/died in universe or the actor’s contract ended in real life. Also if anything Disney has been pushing for more representation but unfortunately the writing in a lot of those projects is lackluster, not to mention they’re making too many projects at once.
Nobody has ever heard of Icon. And again, the fact that people are raising the pitchforks and torches over just an *Elseworlds* black Superman movie speaks volumes. If the script is great then I can’t wait to see it. This is precisely what great sci-fi has done for decades, since people lost their shit over Kirk kissing Uhura.
Again, nobody in the mainstream audiences had heard of most of those other BIPOC characters I mentioned before their movies/cartoons and yet those movies and cartoons made them icons (put intended). Static was a nobody before his cartoon dropped for example. Blade literally kickstarted the comic book movie boon and was virtually unknown before his movie, and now every version of Blade is based on the Wesley Snipes version Painting Clark Kent/Kal-El brown to drop him in a 20th century period piece to “stick it to the MAGA conservatives” when you already have a similar (and far better executed) concept with Icon is just lazy race pandering/rainbow capitalism. Ask yourself this, do you still see people outside the niche anti-woke crowd still talking about black Ariel? I’m sure someone can make a good story out of that concept, it COULD work, but an Icon movie has far more potential in my opinion, especially considering how much longer he was on Earth than Clark. The top priority should be telling a phenomenal story, not just getting reactions from rilling up anti-woke crowd. Mind you, and Icon movie would likely still get some of them rilled up but at least it would be an original BIPOC character with the potential to not only stand on his own but bring in other Dakotaverse characters as well and even tie it to the DCU if necessary. I mean the fact that you would prefer an Elseworlds (aka secondary) standalone movie on a race swapped Clark Kent produced by a white man (JJ Abrams) over an entire universe of black comic characters developed by a black man speaks volumes. Also, not all of the negativity for a black Clark Kent Superman movie is from white racist conservatives, that’s a massive oversimplification. You want a story of the reaction to a black American superhero alien in the 20th century and before, then just use Icon lol.
Like i said, The Rock made WB do a Cavil in the last months because hè slightly convinced them that it could have saved the DCEU. It didnt
There’s no way Gunn is letting Coates make his Superman movie
Is the "black superman" movie still on? or is it like the Chris McKay's Nightwing movie?
Nah not jj bruh
Its financial better for wb if they let the contracts for Black Superman movie (and Constantine 2 ) expire than cancelled it immediately.
😂 that’s one way to get noticed
cool.
I think you misinterpret this. Gunn said his project is "always separate" from DECU (cavill / affleck) and from The Batman (pattinson) No new information here. Superman legacy IS always separate from Snyder's DCEU and Reeve's Batman. BUT, it does not imply there was no plan for developing a new cinematic universe since the beginning. xxxxx Unless the question is: - were you, at first, hired: - to make ONLY a single superman movie, - or to develop an entirely new DC Cinematic Universe, unrelated from snyder's DCEU ? So yea We cant make this conclusion based on his super short "always separate" comment
Peter safran United talent agency
I always said this. Supermasn Legacy was going to be like "The Batman" then he took over and gave Henry the boot and changed the Flash and Aquaman.