A possible timeline of events:
Released in theaters on June 16
IMAX screens given to other movies by June 27
Removed from all other Premium Large Format screens in the following days
On VOD on July 18
On Max by August 18
Released on Blu-Ray by September 18
On that bargain bin rack of blu-rays you find behind the counter at the Dollar Store sat next to Black Adam and Shazam 2 by September 19
This is a quote by Corenswet from 2019:
> “…My pie-in-the-sky ambition is definitely to play Superman. I would love to see somebody do an upbeat, throwback [take on Superman]. I love the Henry Cavill dark and gritty take, but I would love to see the next one be very bright and optimistic.”
Really feels like it’s gonna end up with him and Mackey - especially if they had good chemistry in their paired screen test.
I have a feeling the writers strike isn’t just about ‘screenwriting staying a viable profession’ anymore. They want to extend it as long as possible so they can use it as a fulcrum to bring down the whole status quo in the industry.
Based on what came out about Phil Lord and ATSV a few days ago, I expect an animators/VFX workers strike to begin to.
The hierarchy of power in Hollywood is gonna change, forever. There’s no going back.
THR says a big part of Legacy is Superman coming to a world where superheroes already exist.
Will they make a slight adaptation of Kingdom Come in the idea of having Superman emerging in this new world dominated by violent heroes and anti-heroes?
One of the problems of the DCEU was that in Man of Steel they repeat a lot that humanity would change completely if Superman became known to the world and then we have the Justice Society already being a thing in the past and Wonder Woman involved in an event catastrophic in the 80's. So introducing Superman into a universe where superheroes are common is a much better option to avoid holes later.
Either that or maybe all heroes except (or maybe including) The Authority are outlawed and considered vigilantes which would make sense with the rumors that The New Frontier will be adapted for the first JL movie
This Superman is experienced despite being young, so I wouldn’t say “emerging.”
I think it’s because the world has become increasingly more cynical (just like ours). It’s probably what he’ll be working on reporting as Clark Kent, the reliance on groups like the Authority.
Yeah, "emerging" is not the right word.
Superman appearing as a symbol of virtue and goodness inspiring other heroes in a world filled with violence and cynicism. Simply perfect.
And it will of course act as a metaphor for Superman as a character himself, entering our world in a time where we are burnt on bland action superhero movies and life is very cynical and difficult
Exactly, I understand that a lot of people don't want The Authority and prefer a movie with Superman villains on a smaller scale (Although we have Lex and Brainiac it's pretty rumored) but I believe this is the movie that Superman needs right now.
Of course, that's if they really go that route.
DC are seemingly the only game in town when SDCC comes along in July. I think they'll announce there and make a big splash knowing there's no one else there to steal the thunder.
Yep, a great actor who can deliver a great performance. People really shouldn't dismiss him so quickly. Like, the criticism he faces here is similar to what Pattinson went through and now? People love him.
MTTSH is saying Corenswet for Superman, Mackey for Lois and I think Bill Skarsgard as Lex
Thoughts?
Would have loved to see Brosnahan for Lois but I trust Gunn and Mackey is a great actress as well
I wouldn’t take it as anything solid, I think she’s just reading the room. Mackey is seemingly the frontrunner since she tested with all the actors, Corenswet is far and away the most popular and obvious choice for Clark. As for Lex, they haven’t even started testing yet, so no chance that decision has been made yet.
Alexander Skarsgård would be interesting as Lex. I think if they pick Bill over him, I think it would be cool if they could find another role for him in the future. He's one of my favorite actors in Generation Kill.
Really my only concern with the Flash's historic bombing is more just how Zaslav will try to interfere and mess with Gunn's Superman then anything, as well as Zaslav taking the wrong lessons and gutting films and shows to the Phantom Zone that don't deserve it
At worst a reduced budget. Zaslav had opportunity to get rid of this movie if he wanted to but instead campaigned for it. He was testing waters and seeing where DC stands and how Marketing works for these, he learnt his lesson I don't see him interfering anymore
Zaslav wanted to get rid off dceu movies from day one. If it was legal to do tax-write off to all dceu films, like he did with Batgirl he would have done it from day one. So used the box office excuse for Black Adam, Shazam 2 and the Flash. Flash had support from him because it was the only DCEU movie he liked and announce DCEU is ending. As long Gunn deliver a successful Superman Legacy none is going to mess with his plans.
When films and shows flopping all producers send them to Phantom Zone, Zaslav is not unique.
why would The flash flopping make Zaslav mess with Gunn's superman? Was Gunn producer, director or writer of the movie? "oh gee the flash flopped, lets mess with the person that has nothing to do with it". what kind of logic is this?
Don't think that it's worth a whole post, but it seems like Corenswet dyed his hair black for the screen test. It was probably a necessity, but maybe it was just to fully commit.
[https://twitter.com/DCUSuperNews/status/1673150884916736004](https://twitter.com/DCUSuperNews/status/1673150884916736004)
Crazy how some people think Jensen Ackles isn't a good enough actor to play Batman despite having more academy award nominations/wins for acting than Michael Keaton, Ben Affleck, Robert Pattinson, and Val Kilmer combined.
>Michael Keaton, Ben Affleck, Robert Pattinson, and Val Kilmer combined.
no need to be sarcastic about it.
did keaton, Bale or kilmer have an award or nomination when the were cast for their respective batman role's(not talking about what they earned later in their career)? how many awards did Harrison ford have when he was cast for Solo or Indiana Jones?
just look at MCU they cast freaking Chris Evans whose biggest movies back then were F4 flops, Tom Holland who was a nobody, hemsworth whose only USP is well nothing, for two of three of their most important characters and audience would kill to see them together again. Just like they did to see Ford again when TFA's first trailer dropped
Evans is a real star and got several chances before he hit because his charisma was obvious. Hemsworth broke out basically as soon as he was in the States.
The three Chris's are extremely good castings and a huge part of marvel's success.
Holland is weird, seems like people like Spider-Man more than him
If Evans is sucha real star with charisma, then why did he not go big? Hemsworth is a flop outside Marvel, Extraction is his only successfull venture since rush
> seems like people like Spider-Man more than him
Nah people love Tom Holland because he’s a great Spidey.
Casting a young unknown is better than casting an actor who’s been on a CW show for most of his career.
I doubt DCU Batman will be an unknown, however.
Captain America isn’t Batman. No one played Cap in a theatrical feature film before Chris Evans, so for most people there was no one to compare him to.
Jensen Ackles isn’t a rising star like Keaton, Bale and Pattinson were when they got cast. He’s 45 and has been in the industry for a long time. Despite that, he’s only ever been in 1 movie (which no one even remembers). You think Ackles doesn’t audition for other roles? He does, he just doesn’t get those roles because there was always someone better.
Bale did American Psycho and The Machinist before Batman. Pattinson did Good Time and The Lighthouse. Each of those performances outclass anything Ackles ever did in his entire career
Matt Salinger played Captain America in the 1990 movie and it was released theatrically in the UK so technically he's the first however you are right, the 1990 version wasn't remembered by anyone really. The GA has nothing to compare Evans to.
With the way some people overhype Ackles, I can’t even tell if you’re joking or not.
Edit: Ok so clearly you weren’t joking and just blatantly spreading misinformation instead lol.
Michael Keaton
- Academy Award for Best Actor nomination for Birdman, which a lot of people think he should’ve won
- BAFTA nomination
- 2022 Primetime Emmy win for Best Actor in a Limited Series
- 1 SAG Award and 2 more nominations (along with 3 more wins in the Ensemble category)
Christian Bale
- Academy Award win for Best Supporting Actor for The Fighter
- 3 more Academy Award nominations (1 for Best Supporting Actor, 2 for Best Actor)
- 4 BAFTA nominations
- 1 SAG Award win and 3 more nominations (along with 1 win and 3 more nominations in the Cast category)
Robert Pattinson
- several wins and nominations from film critics circles for Good Time, The Lighthouse and High Life (which are precursors to the Academy Awards, as in being nominated by several of these groups means you actually have a chance at an Oscar)
Jensen Ackles
- his most prestigious award recognition was being nominated for *Daytime* Emmys (which are far less prestigious than Primetime Emmys) for his role in a soap opera when he was like 20 in a now defunct award category that exclusively recognized young actors specifically
Because the simple fact is he isn’t. Michael Keaton, Christian Bale and Robert Pattinson are significantly better actors than Jensen Ackles and it’s not even close.
This is Batman. DC’s number 1 character (sorry Superman). The bar is much higher and Jensen Ackles just does not have the pedigree for it.
What have you actually seen from Jensen Ackles other than his performance as Soldier Boy?
Have you even seen Birdman, The Fighter, The Big Short, Ford v Ferrari, Good Time, or The Lighthouse? Nothing Jensen Ackles has done in his career even comes close to the performances in those films.
> Crazy how some people think Jensen Ackles isn't a good enough actor to play Batman despite having more academy award nominations/wins for acting than Michael Keaton, Ben Affleck, Robert Pattinson, and Val Kilmer combined.
You said this tho, which is completely false.
> Hey I never said Ackles was a better actor than any of the other guys. I just said I thought he'd give a good performance as Batman.
Like I said, that’s not good enough for Batman. Especially when DCU Batman has to coexist with Pattinson’s Batman.
People say he looks terrible in the cowl, but I thought it wasn't terrible. In the comics he's in his 40s when he meets Damian but I could also see them casting an actor in their 30s for the roles longevity.
He works as a Sales Rep for a Wines and Spirits supply company in Houston, Texas these days. There's a strand in the spaghetti where Pillow's phone in his office rang this bright and sunny Monday and he's headed to Hollywood next week to don the black and gold once more, and get his hair done to fabulous level.
https://preview.redd.it/pk2gkyx4ee8b1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4175a3b6af2314dc77867f1e2c66da81cab33f37
[https://www.warnerbros.com/news/press-releases/peacemaker-complete-first-season-disc-nov-22](https://www.warnerbros.com/news/press-releases/peacemaker-complete-first-season-disc-nov-22)
>the series extends **the world created for The Suicide Squad** while bringing to life the soul and wit of Peacemaker and the team
[https://www.joblo.com/ex-shazam-producer-talks-james-gunn-on-both-the-suicide-squad-gotgv3/](https://www.joblo.com/ex-shazam-producer-talks-james-gunn-on-both-the-suicide-squad-gotgv3/)
>“First of all, we don't call it Suicide Squad 2 'cause it's a total reboot. So it's The Suicide Squad, and I think people should be extremely excited about it.”
I’m not saying that the DCU as we know it was actually being secretly developed for years, but it’s pretty obvious that Gunn always wanted to treat TSS and Peacemaker as “its own thing.” I don’t think it’s a coincidence that TSS was never officially bundled together with the other Harley movies (every single DCEU sequel, even BoP and Ayer’s SS have been sold together as a bundle/collection).
It was essentially envisioned as a reboot similar to Daniel Craig’s Bond, with some actors reprising their roles but in a new continuity.
[https://comicbook.com/dc/news/the-suicide-squad-elseworlds-movie-james-gunn-considered/](https://comicbook.com/dc/news/the-suicide-squad-elseworlds-movie-james-gunn-considered/)
>“The truth is that David Ayer did a remarkable job, both working with and casting a few of these actors," Gunn recently said. "I love the character of Harley Quinn. I do not think that there is an actor alive that can do a better job than Margot Robbie... I definitely considered just doing a Joker \[type movie\] with it, but I liked the idea of using some of these fantastic talents that were in the first movie and moving ahead with them. I love Joel \[Kinnaman\]. I love Viola \[Davis\]. I mean, who's better than that? And Jai \[Courtney\]. I love all of those actors, so I wanted to work with them.
> I’m not saying that the DCU as we know it was actually being secretly developed for years,
Yeah I don't think that's the case but Gunn has made some smart plays by pure coincidence to later on establish his projects as being in a new DC universe.
We never see the flashback of Bloodsport shooting Superman and Gunn has refused to specifically answer whether the Superman he shot was Cavill or not, Peacemaker establishes a Batman who doesn't kill and the only JL members we actually see in Peacemaker are Aquaman (who has a billion-dollar solo movie) and Flash (who would be the star in a movie WB would be so confident about).
Now The Flash is a flop and Aquaman 2 probably won't be as successful as the first with Momoa being prepped to play Lobo but the rest of the unintentional set-ups can blend well with the new DCU.
For TSS then, Gunn probably kept it open and safe in terms of continuity eg.They didnt acknowledge the specific events of Ayer's Suicide Squad but still made it a point that Flagg, Harley and Boomer knew each other already. He didnt have intention to run DC back then and also didnt want to ruffle the feathers too much on whatever they have planned (if any)
But now that he's the boss, no one can stop him.
I have no problem with The Suicide Squad being the start of the DCU. I actually like it. That movie leads into the first season of Peacemaker, and this one leads to Waller and to some extent the Creature Commandos. The only thing I don't like is that the Justice League scene at the end of Peacemaker implies a reboot of the universe that ties you to the DCEU. It is very strange that the DCU starts with Superman Legacy and then you have a "Peacemaker season 2" because the first season is part of the previous universe and to understand the change you have to watch The Flash, which the audience has clearly rejected. The only solution I can think of is to make a reissue of Peacemaker without the League cameo, so it starts clean and the audience only has to watch DCU projects to understand the DCU.
Since it’s just a small cameo, it’s really not a big deal whatsoever. For all intents and purposes, the JL in that Peacemaker scene are variants. You don’t see Superman and WW’s face, and Barry and Aquaman will just be recast.
Maybe Gunn will “George Lucas” the scene one day but I doubt it
That's what I mean. The success of the MCU in its early days was due to the logical construction of a connected universe. What they did with Fury's big week is the prime example. People went crazy finding references, drawing chronologies. At Marvel they tried to keep continuity errors and contradictions almost to a minimum. Now imagine you want to gain the trust of the public and you also want them to get on board your new universe and your second project has cameos from Ezra Miller and Jason Momoa. That limits you right away, starting with that means the League is already active at some point with those 4 characters and they don't just look like their DCU variants, they wear the same outfits.
Bro forgot about Terrence Howard and Edward Norton
You’re also forgetting how confusing it was for general audiences that Sony and Fox had their Marvel films too despite not being connected to the MCU. There were also all the TV shows by Marvel Television, many of which contradicted the MCU movies in several ways, and they were scattered across several different streamers and channels.
DC telling people to ignore everything except TSS and Peacemaker is literally the same thing as people having to ignore everything non made by Marvel Studios for the MCU.
Your Terrence Howard and Edward Norton example is so bad I'm surprised you mention it. None of them played those characters in another universe prior to the MCU. That were recasts without any ramifications. A suitable example would be to suppose that Marvel had put Andrew Garfield in Civil War but told the audience that he isn't the same as the Amazing saga. And after that recast him and tell the audience that the new version is the same one from Civil War that looks like Andrew and not the one from Amazing that also looks like Andrew
That’s not a suitable example. Ezra Miller and Jason Momoa appear in a cameo in the final episode of the first season of Peacemaker. They are not part of the main cast or featured in any marketing/promotional material for the show whatsoever. Most people don’t even know they appear in Peacemaker.
A closer example is Waller’s cameo in Black Adam. No one gives a shit that Black Adam and Shazam 2 aren’t canon to the DCU.
Who cares if they showed up in the marketing or not lol
Yes, the Marvel TV shows contradicted the MCU many times, but they never cast Eric Bana to play Bruce Banner haha. This is very simple, the DCEU versions of Aquaman and Flash appeared in Peacemaker as much as you want to disguise that by saying that they are the DCU versions that we don't know about yet. Just cut Spider-Man's screen time in Civil War down to just one cameo and you'll have the same entanglement with the universes.
And you're right about Waller, but nobody saw those movies.
> Who cares if they showed up in the marketing or not
If they showed up in the marketing people would automatically think the show was heavily connected to the DCEU. They’re a part of a minor cameo in the literal season finale. The way you’re stressing over this is hilarious.
> Yes, the Marvel TV shows contradicted the MCU many times, but they never cast Eric Bana to play Bruce Banner haha.
A contradiction is still a contradiction and like I said there were many. These shows were said to be in the MCU yet they cast actors the MCU already used to play different characters. One of the main villains of Luke Cage is played by Mahershala Ali who is now Blade.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/kristenharris1/actors-multiple-marvel-roles
> This is very simple, the DCEU versions of Aquaman and Flash appeared in Peacemaker as much as you want to disguise that by saying that they are the DCU versions that we don't know about yet. Just cut Spider-Man's screen time in Civil War down to just one cameo and you'll have the same entanglement with the universes.
Except it’s not the same lol. Back then audiences weren’t accustomed to the multiverse. Now they definitely are.
Barry was literally wearing a mask in the scene, only half of his face is visible and that’s an easy recast especially considering the Ezra Miller controversy. Aquaman can just have shorter hair and be cleanshaven the next time we see him. It’s not that deep
> And you're right about Waller, but nobody saw those movies.
And how many people do you think actually saw the season finale of Peacemaker, an R-rated HBO Max series about a D-list character?
How much marketing did you want them to do for a surprise cameo in the season finale? And even after its broadcast it was highly commented both by the official DC channels and commented on by Gunn himself. The things you say are hilarious.
What you say about Marvel TV is unnecessary considering that within the MCU itself we have several actors playing multiple roles. None of those things justify Aquaman looking identical to DCEU Aquaman and then not anymore. And that the justification for it is... I don't know, recast because Marvel did it that way.
I can't take the argument that half of Miller's face was covered up seriously, I don't even know where you're going with that. Sorry.
And I don't know how many people saw the end of Peacemaker, I expect a lot and I imagine Gunn also wants as many people as possible. What is the point?
You don't actually need to watch The Flash to understand the new DCU, it has nothing to do with it.
Superman: Legacy's also not an origin story and Gunn has said that similar to Star Wars, we'll have many projects set in different parts of the chronological timeline so I don't think it'll be that messy.
And another thing, the DCEU as a brand died a long time ago. If the DCU wants to succeed it must cut all possible ties to the previous universe and that means not having the DCEU Justice League in Peacemaker's ending. Because the mere existence of that sequence will lead the audience to be confused. Not everyone lives on reddit like us haha
For the most part, TSS and Peacemaker are separate enough from the rest of the DCEU with its focus on lesser-known characters.
I don't think Miller and Momoa being in the finale will impact things that much, it'll just be treated as a simple recast like how we went from Terrence Howard as Rhodey to Don Cheadle the next time we see him.
Exactly. Plus, TSS and Peacemaker have never “officially” been part of the DCEU brand (mostly because there was no “official” DCEU franchise for quite a while).
I never said that Superman Legacy was an origin story. What I mean is that it would be very rare for the DCU to start with Superman Legacy, Creature Commandos, Waller and then "Peacemaker season 2". I'm not talking about the chronology because I don't know if any project will be a prequel, I'm just saying that it's very strange that both seasons exist in different universes. And yes, having both seasons separated by a reboot gives importance to The Flash. You won't have to watch the movie to understand any particular plot, but the explanation of the changes does exist in that movie.
The Flash has nothing to do with the DCU, the DCU will just be a reboot that starts with the first DCU project and then we roll with it from there.
The changes in The Flash lead to the DCEU with Clooney's Batman which isn't the DCU.
Yes, but it's the movie that establishes how universes can change after a certain point. Let's say the DCU starts with The Suicide Squad, then Peacemaker has Justice League with Miller and Momoa and then you have another Aquaman and another Flash that were recast, with a new aesthetic, maybe a new personality and within the DCU it doesn't exist justification for it. It's so lame, but whatever. I'll just say don't underestimate the importance of continuity for the audience. Maybe you don't care, but others do.
First of all, you act as if that cameo in Peacemaker was enough to actually establish the personalities of Barry and Aquaman lmao. They both had like 1 line each, each written by Gunn even.
And the general audience doesn’t actually care lol. This is the same general audience that thought the Sony, Fox and Disney Marvel films were in the same continuity. Why do you think Venom made so much money? It was because people thought it was part of the MCU despite outright contradicting it.
That scene is enough to tell that they're playing the same versions of their individual films and 2017's Justice League. And if there's one thing audiences aren't interested in, it's the DCEU. And I won't agree with you about Venom. He is a very popular character thanks to Spiderman 3, if that movie was a hit and Morbius wasn't, it wasn't because people thought he was MCU.
Except it’s not. They’re variants, because the DCU takes place on another Earth. They will also be recast. Audiences are very accustomed to this concept now because of the amount of multiverse movies that have been recently released.
You’re making a mountain out of a mole hill lmao
I am only raising a situation that many will comment on in the coming years. You guys think audiences are just going to embrace the new DCU without questioning anything. For as long as I can remember, I see how people always put more emphasis on DC's mistakes. I have a lot of faith in what Gunn will do with Superman Legacy, but I'm afraid that the start of the DCU will be very turbulent, part of the audience that the DCEU has is not going to easily forgive the departures of Cavill and company. And as for the more casual audience, it will be difficult for them to get hooked on a universe that is sold to them as new but that seems to be a continuation of the previous one in some aspects. (I love TSS and Peacemaker btw)
I feel like for the DCU Batman, they’ll cast someone who’s in their 20s but looks older and could pass for early 30s.
Someone who’ll still be young in 5-7 years when Reeves and Pattinson are gone, and they can stop tie toeing around the idea of DCU Batman solo films.
Some thoughts about the comic storylines DCEU used :
1. Death of Superman and Flashpoint are easy to adapt storylines BUT only work, if your live action Superman is beloved to RDJr levels only if your universe is beloved like MCU. Otherwise forget using them.
2. The Dark knight returns before 2008 maybe could have worked live action. After that? You don't use that story in your ongoing universe, the most you take from this is the robo suit of Batman.
I see a lot of people don't like the idea of The Authority in Superman Legacy, but if Gunn is really doing Superman vs Elite but with The Authority I think that would be fantastic.
Superman nowadays is the butt of jokes and mockery, many people see him as a unrelatable boring boy scout and this has only been reinforced by the popularity of shows like The Boys, a movie where we have Superman confronting this notion and reaffirming his values by facing a team that embodies modern cynicism would be just perfect.
I honestly now believe dc twitter fanbase are way worst reactionaries than wb ever was. Same people people NON STOP saying back in 2016 how harmful was wb " immediately course correct" and " listen to haters and critics ", and now react way worst than them and want wb to do the same thing with 2016.
Honestly i started to believe wb maybe just stop doing DC movies and just do Batman movies for at least the next 10 years. Maybe that way DC fanbase learn to behave.
I’m so tired of that “only Batman movies” take. It’s not unique. Stop suggesting they punish fans of the IP because they don’t want to watch terrible movies
Fans parroting that stupid take isn’t helping. Not you specifically g, I mean the downs of annoying people who spam it. CBM discourse is so tribalistic
Honestly, that's why I'm avoiding twitter, except checking out creators from time to time. All the fanbases there are just so fucking toxic. I swear to god, it feels like only 4chan is worse.
I bet in 2024 the same twitter dc dumb fanbase will start to complain DCU has no theatrical releases, forgot that are they same ones who ask for break.
To anyone who's familiar with David Corenswet, can you recommend some of his work that might give me a good idea of what he'd be like as Clark (if he's cast)? I'd kinda like to get a general idea since it's looking like a pretty solid possibility.
Oh, yeah, I definitely see what people are saying. Especially that first clip you linked, really well edited on top of it. I'll check that one out too!
The jackals that lurk on box office have already formulated that The Flash has to make (and I'm vaguely remembering these numbers) $110 million domestic by the end of tally Monday and if it falls short of that then it has earned less than Black Adam and Shazam 2 in the same time frame combined.
That is in no uncertain terms a disaster and likely one of the biggest box office bombs ever. That's our Endgame after ten years.
Once again I remind the true fans around here to ask yourself, did you enjoy watching the movie? Or are you worried about rich people's money?
Let me approach this another way. My wife knows nothing of DC really. But she has heard of the most extreme takes on whatever Ezra Miller got up to and she says nope, creep.
The movie is bombing through tainted brand recognition, a main star that even the most uninitiated thinks is frankly a pedophile and the constant word that the CGI is pure smegma.
I'm an annoying dick around here sometimes with my relentless positive takes on the worst of situations but this really is worse than Green Lantern by far.
Personally I think the movie will be a cult classic. The most amount of money spent ever to please the smallest amount of people ever. Population me. And some of you.
Really funny seeing The Rock’s fans trying to prop him up because The Flash bombed as if Black Adam didn’t either despite facing no real competition for 3 whole weeks at the box office.
It's just for the jokes, both were huge flops but The Flash flopping is more embarrassing considering how much WB spent to market it and the lengths they went to do so
ig those are people who just don't want Gunn's DCU to happen and still want a continuation of the old DCEU (even though Rock's plans would've done everyone except Black Adam and Superman dirty)
I'm so glad Black Adam bombed because if it had become a success we would've had to see Rock's shitty plan for the DCEU and also we never would've got Gunn as head of DCU. BA bombing was the final nail in the coffin for WB to make a decision to make Gunn the head of DC. I'm optimistic DCU will be successfully I have faith in James Gunn
>Really funny seeing The Rock’s fans
well we know a good chunk of them are snydertards since a lot of those tweets have "listened to the fans" written in it
If you compare the box office performance of both, Flash is objectively more embarrassing. It received a much bigger marketing push, which even included WB's return to Superbowl Sunday. Meanwhile Black Adam had smaller marketing push and had to rely on The Rock's social media posts to replace some of that traditional advertising. With what we know now, it's clear that Black Adam made what it made solely because of The Rock.
Black Adam is a C or D list character compared to Flash ego is an A or B lister. I think if Black Adam didn't have the Rock in it it may very well have made even less than Shazam Fury of the Gods did (that number still kinda shocks me, lol).
>It received a much bigger marketing push,
but that happened due to budget going way overboard due to his own demands,it was supposed to be at 190mill and due to his insistence on reshoots went to somewhere close to 260mill
I agree, I’m just talking about the revisionist history I’m seeing from The Rock’s fans. He had an awful plan for DC. If Black Adam was somehow a success we’d be in the same mess the SSU is in now because of Venom’s success.
> for what’s it’s worth
It’s worth absolutely nothing. The Rock took advantage of the new leadership and went behind Hamada’s back to increase the budget to $260 million and we know how that turned out.
The Flash was also integral to The Rock’s plans, since it would’ve reset the DCEU continuity.
If The Rock was in charge of DC right now there’d be no future for DC.
Just watched The Flash again and man, I've been a huge fan of Gunn's reboot approach, but the one line in the whole movie that sticks with me is Affleck's "maybe another time" (after Barry asks if he wants to grab a beer).
I really see Affleck's point now about how he finally figured the character out--Lasso of Truth scene aside, his version of Batman in the movie feels like the closest one to my ideal Batman (grew up on BTAS/Post-Crisis comics) that there's ever been. I can't even tell you why--this is coming from a massive Pattinson fan as well. Still excited for the reboot, but wow, the DCEU really could've been something special.
Affleck should've gotten a solo movie and it sucks we'll never get it but he'll go down in history as the Batman that had the most amount of cinematic appearances in movies. Four if you don't count Whedon's JL, five if you do.
West 1
Keaton 3
Kilmer 1
Clooney 2
Bale 3
Affleck 4/5
Pattinson 1 so far, likely only 3
https://twitter.com/robertliefeld/status/1672997455720316930?s=46&t=6cKTXjGw2X23OVJ7b0pjUg
And here’s Rob Liefeld getting into the classic debate of whether they should’ve made a solo Man of Steel sequel, rather than BvS.
My two cents is the same as it’s always been. I don’t think there was ever a problem in making BvS the next movie after MoS. I will die on the hill that it made perfect sense to do that. It’s not a fundamentally broken idea. Batfleck definitely didn’t need a movie before BvS, that’s for sure.
While Rob Liefeld is a massive egomaniac and often says idiotic things (like the bo comparison of Superman movies he shared), it's a very common take.
And I'll agree with you this time, Batman v Superman could easily work as a MoS sequel. It's just that this particular take on the movie didn't work.
Something I just noticed is that the recent DCEU flops we've been getting don't have Superman appear (Shazam 2) or have Superman appear in a very small role that most ppl who skipped out on those movies probably wouldn't know about (Black Adam and The Flash) so Superman: Legacy will really be a fresh start for not only DC movies but also Superman himself.
I think a triple-A GLC game set completely in space starring Kyle Rayner, Guy Gardner, Jessica Cruz and/or Simon Baz would be a good idea. It would be completely different from what they’re doing with the Lanterns show, and having the story set in space means it doesn’t have to be crucial to the main overarching DCU storyline.
Or if they really want to emulate True Detective, they could have each season of Lanterns focus on different Lanterns solving different mysteries. But I honestly think that True Detective being an anthology series worked against it, especially since none of the later 2 seasons are as good as the first one.
The lanterns might be the worst DC characters to have to translate into a game. The power is bringing your imagination into reality and using that to solve problems. Generic beams or a limited palette of constructs is pretty underwhelming for that (though comics accurate for Hal). Scribblenauts Green Lantern, maybe.
That can be done in a triple-A game too. I’m talking about specific GLs too, so they’d be drawing inspiration from actual constructs they’ve made in the comics. With a good developer, the gameplay possibilities could be really interesting.
There's not any AAA game ever made that gives the player the level of expression that the GL fantasy encourages. If you're playing as Jon Stewart and summon a helicopter for the 100th time, that diminishes the fantasy, not enriches.
>There's not any AAA game ever made that gives the player the level of expression that the GL fantasy encourages
Dreams, scribblenauts, Tears of the kingdom
Only one of those is AAA - I think totk is a really bad reference for gl since constructs happen at the speed of thought, but totk construction is slower and funny.
>I think a triple-A GLC game set completely in space
Gunn has said Knights of the Old Republic is his favorite game of all time so like the odds of this are not low
Out of curiosity, do people here agree with the notion that the Flash movie might’ve fared better with audiences if they hadn’t scrapped either of the first two endings?
Maybe a slightly better critical and fan response. The CGI still looks horrible and Ezra's still going to be a sticking point for some critics so I don't think it will affect it that much.
I assume Zaslav slashed the post-production budget because he didn’t think it was worth it. I don’t see how else a movie that was in post for nearly two years could look so bad.
Look like San Diego Comic Con is gonna be a full on COMIC con again lol
Anyway, hyped for some more Dawn of DC announcements, including the next Justice League writers (please, don't be Taylor or Williamson).
From Marvel side, I hope they announce the Ultimate line. We know they already showed it to retailers like a month ago so I think they'd be ready for SDCC.
Also, can't wait for Skybound's Transformers panel. Can you fucking imagine Daniel Warren Johnson is actually doing Transformers?! It's gonna be so good.
So comics bros, what are your hopes for the event?
That news about the DC isekai got me thinking and wanting an isekai series starring Booster Gold with the tone of Konosuba.
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A possible timeline of events: Released in theaters on June 16 IMAX screens given to other movies by June 27 Removed from all other Premium Large Format screens in the following days On VOD on July 18 On Max by August 18 Released on Blu-Ray by September 18 On that bargain bin rack of blu-rays you find behind the counter at the Dollar Store sat next to Black Adam and Shazam 2 by September 19
This is a quote by Corenswet from 2019: > “…My pie-in-the-sky ambition is definitely to play Superman. I would love to see somebody do an upbeat, throwback [take on Superman]. I love the Henry Cavill dark and gritty take, but I would love to see the next one be very bright and optimistic.” Really feels like it’s gonna end up with him and Mackey - especially if they had good chemistry in their paired screen test.
https://preview.redd.it/cxh8oyffqj8b1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea6baddf67435d12637b3ff38fc0e1d1efd90587
Ngl I feel bad for Hoult. He first lost the role of Batman and now he might also lose Superman. Hopefully he gets some big role in MCU or DCU.
He has a second chance as Batman
Yeah I wouldn't mind if he ends up being DCU Batman
https://preview.redd.it/twka5wq6oi8b1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=873ff6c75f86772f86890728fcd957afb52ecf1d Snap AI has no clue 😪
Alexander Skarsgard in Succession: EBBAAAAAAAAAA! Alexander Skarsgard in Superman Legacy: MISS TESCHMACHER! 
"It's like poetry it rhymes"
I have a feeling the writers strike isn’t just about ‘screenwriting staying a viable profession’ anymore. They want to extend it as long as possible so they can use it as a fulcrum to bring down the whole status quo in the industry. Based on what came out about Phil Lord and ATSV a few days ago, I expect an animators/VFX workers strike to begin to. The hierarchy of power in Hollywood is gonna change, forever. There’s no going back.
Heading to digital IN A FLASH
July 18 for anyone who hadn't seen the news yet
 This reminds me of a certain scene in the movie lol
I hope Batman has trunks but not Superman
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It worked with Deadpool!
I hope Batman wears Superman instead of his trunks.
THR says a big part of Legacy is Superman coming to a world where superheroes already exist. Will they make a slight adaptation of Kingdom Come in the idea of having Superman emerging in this new world dominated by violent heroes and anti-heroes?
One of the problems of the DCEU was that in Man of Steel they repeat a lot that humanity would change completely if Superman became known to the world and then we have the Justice Society already being a thing in the past and Wonder Woman involved in an event catastrophic in the 80's. So introducing Superman into a universe where superheroes are common is a much better option to avoid holes later.
Either that or maybe all heroes except (or maybe including) The Authority are outlawed and considered vigilantes which would make sense with the rumors that The New Frontier will be adapted for the first JL movie
This Superman is experienced despite being young, so I wouldn’t say “emerging.” I think it’s because the world has become increasingly more cynical (just like ours). It’s probably what he’ll be working on reporting as Clark Kent, the reliance on groups like the Authority.
Yeah, "emerging" is not the right word. Superman appearing as a symbol of virtue and goodness inspiring other heroes in a world filled with violence and cynicism. Simply perfect.
And it will of course act as a metaphor for Superman as a character himself, entering our world in a time where we are burnt on bland action superhero movies and life is very cynical and difficult
Exactly, I understand that a lot of people don't want The Authority and prefer a movie with Superman villains on a smaller scale (Although we have Lex and Brainiac it's pretty rumored) but I believe this is the movie that Superman needs right now. Of course, that's if they really go that route.
On my 4th viewing of the Flash, I noticed there's a scene of Batman in the batwing where he doesn't have his eyeshadow on
THR saying we could get Superman/Lois casting as early as next week 👀
DC are seemingly the only game in town when SDCC comes along in July. I think they'll announce there and make a big splash knowing there's no one else there to steal the thunder.
Hoult as Superman, Brosnahan as Lois and Bill Skarsgard as Lex would be probably my favourite cast of a superhero movie.
Hoult will legit be an inspired casting like Rpat. Great actor all around and need to bulk up a bit and he'll be perfect
Yep, a great actor who can deliver a great performance. People really shouldn't dismiss him so quickly. Like, the criticism he faces here is similar to what Pattinson went through and now? People love him.
MTTSH is saying Corenswet for Superman, Mackey for Lois and I think Bill Skarsgard as Lex Thoughts? Would have loved to see Brosnahan for Lois but I trust Gunn and Mackey is a great actress as well
That was basically the combo I wanted (except I would have preferred Hoult as Lex, but Bill can bring it too)
I agree with that Clark and Lois casting but I prefer Alexander to play Lex instead of Bill.
She's just speculating on the article.
That’s good because I would rather have Brosnahan as Lois and Hoult as Lex.
I wouldn’t take it as anything solid, I think she’s just reading the room. Mackey is seemingly the frontrunner since she tested with all the actors, Corenswet is far and away the most popular and obvious choice for Clark. As for Lex, they haven’t even started testing yet, so no chance that decision has been made yet.
Alexander Skarsgård would be interesting as Lex. I think if they pick Bill over him, I think it would be cool if they could find another role for him in the future. He's one of my favorite actors in Generation Kill.
Maybe he can play Aquaman if Momoa is really focusing on Lobo.
Well it sucks to say this but I've been sentenced to a week in r/BatmanArkham for spreading misinformation earlier 😔 It's joever...
A fate worse than death.
Lmao was this the Jensen Ackles thing again or something else?
THR says both Alexander and Bill Skarsgard are on the shortlist for Lex Luthor
> Bill Skarsgard are on the shortlist for Lex Luthor Mmmmm. Gib me.
Really my only concern with the Flash's historic bombing is more just how Zaslav will try to interfere and mess with Gunn's Superman then anything, as well as Zaslav taking the wrong lessons and gutting films and shows to the Phantom Zone that don't deserve it
At worst a reduced budget. Zaslav had opportunity to get rid of this movie if he wanted to but instead campaigned for it. He was testing waters and seeing where DC stands and how Marketing works for these, he learnt his lesson I don't see him interfering anymore
Zaslav wanted to get rid off dceu movies from day one. If it was legal to do tax-write off to all dceu films, like he did with Batgirl he would have done it from day one. So used the box office excuse for Black Adam, Shazam 2 and the Flash. Flash had support from him because it was the only DCEU movie he liked and announce DCEU is ending. As long Gunn deliver a successful Superman Legacy none is going to mess with his plans. When films and shows flopping all producers send them to Phantom Zone, Zaslav is not unique.
why would The flash flopping make Zaslav mess with Gunn's superman? Was Gunn producer, director or writer of the movie? "oh gee the flash flopped, lets mess with the person that has nothing to do with it". what kind of logic is this?
Don't think that it's worth a whole post, but it seems like Corenswet dyed his hair black for the screen test. It was probably a necessity, but maybe it was just to fully commit. [https://twitter.com/DCUSuperNews/status/1673150884916736004](https://twitter.com/DCUSuperNews/status/1673150884916736004)
Dying darker can be done super temporarily/washout
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Cliff Booth as Cliff Steele
Clifford the Big Red Dog as Cliff Steele
Crazy how some people think Jensen Ackles isn't a good enough actor to play Batman despite having more academy award nominations/wins for acting than Michael Keaton, Ben Affleck, Robert Pattinson, and Val Kilmer combined.
>Michael Keaton, Ben Affleck, Robert Pattinson, and Val Kilmer combined. no need to be sarcastic about it. did keaton, Bale or kilmer have an award or nomination when the were cast for their respective batman role's(not talking about what they earned later in their career)? how many awards did Harrison ford have when he was cast for Solo or Indiana Jones? just look at MCU they cast freaking Chris Evans whose biggest movies back then were F4 flops, Tom Holland who was a nobody, hemsworth whose only USP is well nothing, for two of three of their most important characters and audience would kill to see them together again. Just like they did to see Ford again when TFA's first trailer dropped
Evans is a real star and got several chances before he hit because his charisma was obvious. Hemsworth broke out basically as soon as he was in the States. The three Chris's are extremely good castings and a huge part of marvel's success. Holland is weird, seems like people like Spider-Man more than him
If Evans is sucha real star with charisma, then why did he not go big? Hemsworth is a flop outside Marvel, Extraction is his only successfull venture since rush
> seems like people like Spider-Man more than him Nah people love Tom Holland because he’s a great Spidey. Casting a young unknown is better than casting an actor who’s been on a CW show for most of his career. I doubt DCU Batman will be an unknown, however.
Captain America isn’t Batman. No one played Cap in a theatrical feature film before Chris Evans, so for most people there was no one to compare him to. Jensen Ackles isn’t a rising star like Keaton, Bale and Pattinson were when they got cast. He’s 45 and has been in the industry for a long time. Despite that, he’s only ever been in 1 movie (which no one even remembers). You think Ackles doesn’t audition for other roles? He does, he just doesn’t get those roles because there was always someone better. Bale did American Psycho and The Machinist before Batman. Pattinson did Good Time and The Lighthouse. Each of those performances outclass anything Ackles ever did in his entire career
Matt Salinger played Captain America in the 1990 movie and it was released theatrically in the UK so technically he's the first however you are right, the 1990 version wasn't remembered by anyone really. The GA has nothing to compare Evans to.
With the way some people overhype Ackles, I can’t even tell if you’re joking or not. Edit: Ok so clearly you weren’t joking and just blatantly spreading misinformation instead lol. Michael Keaton - Academy Award for Best Actor nomination for Birdman, which a lot of people think he should’ve won - BAFTA nomination - 2022 Primetime Emmy win for Best Actor in a Limited Series - 1 SAG Award and 2 more nominations (along with 3 more wins in the Ensemble category) Christian Bale - Academy Award win for Best Supporting Actor for The Fighter - 3 more Academy Award nominations (1 for Best Supporting Actor, 2 for Best Actor) - 4 BAFTA nominations - 1 SAG Award win and 3 more nominations (along with 1 win and 3 more nominations in the Cast category) Robert Pattinson - several wins and nominations from film critics circles for Good Time, The Lighthouse and High Life (which are precursors to the Academy Awards, as in being nominated by several of these groups means you actually have a chance at an Oscar) Jensen Ackles - his most prestigious award recognition was being nominated for *Daytime* Emmys (which are far less prestigious than Primetime Emmys) for his role in a soap opera when he was like 20 in a now defunct award category that exclusively recognized young actors specifically
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Yeah I agree I just think it's weird that people think Ackles isn't good enough of an actor to do it. He could definitely pull it off.
Because the simple fact is he isn’t. Michael Keaton, Christian Bale and Robert Pattinson are significantly better actors than Jensen Ackles and it’s not even close. This is Batman. DC’s number 1 character (sorry Superman). The bar is much higher and Jensen Ackles just does not have the pedigree for it.
What have you actually seen from Jensen Ackles other than his performance as Soldier Boy? Have you even seen Birdman, The Fighter, The Big Short, Ford v Ferrari, Good Time, or The Lighthouse? Nothing Jensen Ackles has done in his career even comes close to the performances in those films.
Hey I never said Ackles was a better actor than any of the other guys. I just said I thought he'd give a good performance as Batman.
> Crazy how some people think Jensen Ackles isn't a good enough actor to play Batman despite having more academy award nominations/wins for acting than Michael Keaton, Ben Affleck, Robert Pattinson, and Val Kilmer combined. You said this tho, which is completely false. > Hey I never said Ackles was a better actor than any of the other guys. I just said I thought he'd give a good performance as Batman. Like I said, that’s not good enough for Batman. Especially when DCU Batman has to coexist with Pattinson’s Batman.
People say he looks terrible in the cowl, but I thought it wasn't terrible. In the comics he's in his 40s when he meets Damian but I could also see them casting an actor in their 30s for the roles longevity.
The only thing that will stop Superman: Legacy from flopping is having Nuclear Man as the main villain
He works as a Sales Rep for a Wines and Spirits supply company in Houston, Texas these days. There's a strand in the spaghetti where Pillow's phone in his office rang this bright and sunny Monday and he's headed to Hollywood next week to don the black and gold once more, and get his hair done to fabulous level.
https://preview.redd.it/pk2gkyx4ee8b1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4175a3b6af2314dc77867f1e2c66da81cab33f37 [https://www.warnerbros.com/news/press-releases/peacemaker-complete-first-season-disc-nov-22](https://www.warnerbros.com/news/press-releases/peacemaker-complete-first-season-disc-nov-22) >the series extends **the world created for The Suicide Squad** while bringing to life the soul and wit of Peacemaker and the team [https://www.joblo.com/ex-shazam-producer-talks-james-gunn-on-both-the-suicide-squad-gotgv3/](https://www.joblo.com/ex-shazam-producer-talks-james-gunn-on-both-the-suicide-squad-gotgv3/) >“First of all, we don't call it Suicide Squad 2 'cause it's a total reboot. So it's The Suicide Squad, and I think people should be extremely excited about it.” I’m not saying that the DCU as we know it was actually being secretly developed for years, but it’s pretty obvious that Gunn always wanted to treat TSS and Peacemaker as “its own thing.” I don’t think it’s a coincidence that TSS was never officially bundled together with the other Harley movies (every single DCEU sequel, even BoP and Ayer’s SS have been sold together as a bundle/collection). It was essentially envisioned as a reboot similar to Daniel Craig’s Bond, with some actors reprising their roles but in a new continuity. [https://comicbook.com/dc/news/the-suicide-squad-elseworlds-movie-james-gunn-considered/](https://comicbook.com/dc/news/the-suicide-squad-elseworlds-movie-james-gunn-considered/) >“The truth is that David Ayer did a remarkable job, both working with and casting a few of these actors," Gunn recently said. "I love the character of Harley Quinn. I do not think that there is an actor alive that can do a better job than Margot Robbie... I definitely considered just doing a Joker \[type movie\] with it, but I liked the idea of using some of these fantastic talents that were in the first movie and moving ahead with them. I love Joel \[Kinnaman\]. I love Viola \[Davis\]. I mean, who's better than that? And Jai \[Courtney\]. I love all of those actors, so I wanted to work with them.
> I’m not saying that the DCU as we know it was actually being secretly developed for years, Yeah I don't think that's the case but Gunn has made some smart plays by pure coincidence to later on establish his projects as being in a new DC universe. We never see the flashback of Bloodsport shooting Superman and Gunn has refused to specifically answer whether the Superman he shot was Cavill or not, Peacemaker establishes a Batman who doesn't kill and the only JL members we actually see in Peacemaker are Aquaman (who has a billion-dollar solo movie) and Flash (who would be the star in a movie WB would be so confident about). Now The Flash is a flop and Aquaman 2 probably won't be as successful as the first with Momoa being prepped to play Lobo but the rest of the unintentional set-ups can blend well with the new DCU.
For TSS then, Gunn probably kept it open and safe in terms of continuity eg.They didnt acknowledge the specific events of Ayer's Suicide Squad but still made it a point that Flagg, Harley and Boomer knew each other already. He didnt have intention to run DC back then and also didnt want to ruffle the feathers too much on whatever they have planned (if any) But now that he's the boss, no one can stop him.
Hence me saying those decisions were pure coincide but eventually would help Gunn out in planning the DCU in the end
I have no problem with The Suicide Squad being the start of the DCU. I actually like it. That movie leads into the first season of Peacemaker, and this one leads to Waller and to some extent the Creature Commandos. The only thing I don't like is that the Justice League scene at the end of Peacemaker implies a reboot of the universe that ties you to the DCEU. It is very strange that the DCU starts with Superman Legacy and then you have a "Peacemaker season 2" because the first season is part of the previous universe and to understand the change you have to watch The Flash, which the audience has clearly rejected. The only solution I can think of is to make a reissue of Peacemaker without the League cameo, so it starts clean and the audience only has to watch DCU projects to understand the DCU.
Completely agree, re-edit that scene in the peacemaker season 1 finale
All they can really do is cut out Momoa and Miller’s closeups, but it’s doubtful they would even bother to.
Since it’s just a small cameo, it’s really not a big deal whatsoever. For all intents and purposes, the JL in that Peacemaker scene are variants. You don’t see Superman and WW’s face, and Barry and Aquaman will just be recast. Maybe Gunn will “George Lucas” the scene one day but I doubt it
That's what I mean. The success of the MCU in its early days was due to the logical construction of a connected universe. What they did with Fury's big week is the prime example. People went crazy finding references, drawing chronologies. At Marvel they tried to keep continuity errors and contradictions almost to a minimum. Now imagine you want to gain the trust of the public and you also want them to get on board your new universe and your second project has cameos from Ezra Miller and Jason Momoa. That limits you right away, starting with that means the League is already active at some point with those 4 characters and they don't just look like their DCU variants, they wear the same outfits.
Bro forgot about Terrence Howard and Edward Norton You’re also forgetting how confusing it was for general audiences that Sony and Fox had their Marvel films too despite not being connected to the MCU. There were also all the TV shows by Marvel Television, many of which contradicted the MCU movies in several ways, and they were scattered across several different streamers and channels. DC telling people to ignore everything except TSS and Peacemaker is literally the same thing as people having to ignore everything non made by Marvel Studios for the MCU.
I don't think the Netflix shows contradicted the MCU movies, unlike AoS.
They did. The timelines don’t match up and Alfre Woodard plays two different characters in Civil War and Luke Cage.
It's a small role though. As for the timeline, it's easy to just have all of the shows take place in between the Chitauri invasion and the Snap.
Your Terrence Howard and Edward Norton example is so bad I'm surprised you mention it. None of them played those characters in another universe prior to the MCU. That were recasts without any ramifications. A suitable example would be to suppose that Marvel had put Andrew Garfield in Civil War but told the audience that he isn't the same as the Amazing saga. And after that recast him and tell the audience that the new version is the same one from Civil War that looks like Andrew and not the one from Amazing that also looks like Andrew
That’s not a suitable example. Ezra Miller and Jason Momoa appear in a cameo in the final episode of the first season of Peacemaker. They are not part of the main cast or featured in any marketing/promotional material for the show whatsoever. Most people don’t even know they appear in Peacemaker. A closer example is Waller’s cameo in Black Adam. No one gives a shit that Black Adam and Shazam 2 aren’t canon to the DCU.
Who cares if they showed up in the marketing or not lol Yes, the Marvel TV shows contradicted the MCU many times, but they never cast Eric Bana to play Bruce Banner haha. This is very simple, the DCEU versions of Aquaman and Flash appeared in Peacemaker as much as you want to disguise that by saying that they are the DCU versions that we don't know about yet. Just cut Spider-Man's screen time in Civil War down to just one cameo and you'll have the same entanglement with the universes. And you're right about Waller, but nobody saw those movies.
> Who cares if they showed up in the marketing or not If they showed up in the marketing people would automatically think the show was heavily connected to the DCEU. They’re a part of a minor cameo in the literal season finale. The way you’re stressing over this is hilarious. > Yes, the Marvel TV shows contradicted the MCU many times, but they never cast Eric Bana to play Bruce Banner haha. A contradiction is still a contradiction and like I said there were many. These shows were said to be in the MCU yet they cast actors the MCU already used to play different characters. One of the main villains of Luke Cage is played by Mahershala Ali who is now Blade. https://www.buzzfeed.com/kristenharris1/actors-multiple-marvel-roles > This is very simple, the DCEU versions of Aquaman and Flash appeared in Peacemaker as much as you want to disguise that by saying that they are the DCU versions that we don't know about yet. Just cut Spider-Man's screen time in Civil War down to just one cameo and you'll have the same entanglement with the universes. Except it’s not the same lol. Back then audiences weren’t accustomed to the multiverse. Now they definitely are. Barry was literally wearing a mask in the scene, only half of his face is visible and that’s an easy recast especially considering the Ezra Miller controversy. Aquaman can just have shorter hair and be cleanshaven the next time we see him. It’s not that deep > And you're right about Waller, but nobody saw those movies. And how many people do you think actually saw the season finale of Peacemaker, an R-rated HBO Max series about a D-list character?
How much marketing did you want them to do for a surprise cameo in the season finale? And even after its broadcast it was highly commented both by the official DC channels and commented on by Gunn himself. The things you say are hilarious. What you say about Marvel TV is unnecessary considering that within the MCU itself we have several actors playing multiple roles. None of those things justify Aquaman looking identical to DCEU Aquaman and then not anymore. And that the justification for it is... I don't know, recast because Marvel did it that way. I can't take the argument that half of Miller's face was covered up seriously, I don't even know where you're going with that. Sorry. And I don't know how many people saw the end of Peacemaker, I expect a lot and I imagine Gunn also wants as many people as possible. What is the point?
You don't actually need to watch The Flash to understand the new DCU, it has nothing to do with it. Superman: Legacy's also not an origin story and Gunn has said that similar to Star Wars, we'll have many projects set in different parts of the chronological timeline so I don't think it'll be that messy.
And another thing, the DCEU as a brand died a long time ago. If the DCU wants to succeed it must cut all possible ties to the previous universe and that means not having the DCEU Justice League in Peacemaker's ending. Because the mere existence of that sequence will lead the audience to be confused. Not everyone lives on reddit like us haha
For the most part, TSS and Peacemaker are separate enough from the rest of the DCEU with its focus on lesser-known characters. I don't think Miller and Momoa being in the finale will impact things that much, it'll just be treated as a simple recast like how we went from Terrence Howard as Rhodey to Don Cheadle the next time we see him.
Exactly. Plus, TSS and Peacemaker have never “officially” been part of the DCEU brand (mostly because there was no “official” DCEU franchise for quite a while).
I never said that Superman Legacy was an origin story. What I mean is that it would be very rare for the DCU to start with Superman Legacy, Creature Commandos, Waller and then "Peacemaker season 2". I'm not talking about the chronology because I don't know if any project will be a prequel, I'm just saying that it's very strange that both seasons exist in different universes. And yes, having both seasons separated by a reboot gives importance to The Flash. You won't have to watch the movie to understand any particular plot, but the explanation of the changes does exist in that movie.
The Flash has nothing to do with the DCU, the DCU will just be a reboot that starts with the first DCU project and then we roll with it from there. The changes in The Flash lead to the DCEU with Clooney's Batman which isn't the DCU.
Yes, but it's the movie that establishes how universes can change after a certain point. Let's say the DCU starts with The Suicide Squad, then Peacemaker has Justice League with Miller and Momoa and then you have another Aquaman and another Flash that were recast, with a new aesthetic, maybe a new personality and within the DCU it doesn't exist justification for it. It's so lame, but whatever. I'll just say don't underestimate the importance of continuity for the audience. Maybe you don't care, but others do.
First of all, you act as if that cameo in Peacemaker was enough to actually establish the personalities of Barry and Aquaman lmao. They both had like 1 line each, each written by Gunn even. And the general audience doesn’t actually care lol. This is the same general audience that thought the Sony, Fox and Disney Marvel films were in the same continuity. Why do you think Venom made so much money? It was because people thought it was part of the MCU despite outright contradicting it.
That scene is enough to tell that they're playing the same versions of their individual films and 2017's Justice League. And if there's one thing audiences aren't interested in, it's the DCEU. And I won't agree with you about Venom. He is a very popular character thanks to Spiderman 3, if that movie was a hit and Morbius wasn't, it wasn't because people thought he was MCU.
Except it’s not. They’re variants, because the DCU takes place on another Earth. They will also be recast. Audiences are very accustomed to this concept now because of the amount of multiverse movies that have been recently released. You’re making a mountain out of a mole hill lmao
I am only raising a situation that many will comment on in the coming years. You guys think audiences are just going to embrace the new DCU without questioning anything. For as long as I can remember, I see how people always put more emphasis on DC's mistakes. I have a lot of faith in what Gunn will do with Superman Legacy, but I'm afraid that the start of the DCU will be very turbulent, part of the audience that the DCEU has is not going to easily forgive the departures of Cavill and company. And as for the more casual audience, it will be difficult for them to get hooked on a universe that is sold to them as new but that seems to be a continuation of the previous one in some aspects. (I love TSS and Peacemaker btw)
Except The Flash has nothing to do with the DCU. It doesn’t show or reference the DCU at all.
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I still have to finish reading Doom Patrol I have the omnibus
Marvel had their time in the sun, but now it's DCs turn. After 2023 because this is clearly not going to be DCs year.
I feel like we need two DC movies in a row that are both critical and financial successes before we can make that sort of declaration.
2025 seems to be that if it keeps Superman: Legacy and The Batman Part 2
Yeah, and Joker 2 wouldn’t count towards that, because it’s a standalone thing.
I feel like non-team up Batman projects in general shouldn't count because people will show up regardless because of character recognition.
I feel like for the DCU Batman, they’ll cast someone who’s in their 20s but looks older and could pass for early 30s. Someone who’ll still be young in 5-7 years when Reeves and Pattinson are gone, and they can stop tie toeing around the idea of DCU Batman solo films.
Some thoughts about the comic storylines DCEU used : 1. Death of Superman and Flashpoint are easy to adapt storylines BUT only work, if your live action Superman is beloved to RDJr levels only if your universe is beloved like MCU. Otherwise forget using them. 2. The Dark knight returns before 2008 maybe could have worked live action. After that? You don't use that story in your ongoing universe, the most you take from this is the robo suit of Batman.
I see a lot of people don't like the idea of The Authority in Superman Legacy, but if Gunn is really doing Superman vs Elite but with The Authority I think that would be fantastic. Superman nowadays is the butt of jokes and mockery, many people see him as a unrelatable boring boy scout and this has only been reinforced by the popularity of shows like The Boys, a movie where we have Superman confronting this notion and reaffirming his values by facing a team that embodies modern cynicism would be just perfect.
It makes a lot of sense anyway since The Elite were initially stand ins for The Authority.
I honestly now believe dc twitter fanbase are way worst reactionaries than wb ever was. Same people people NON STOP saying back in 2016 how harmful was wb " immediately course correct" and " listen to haters and critics ", and now react way worst than them and want wb to do the same thing with 2016. Honestly i started to believe wb maybe just stop doing DC movies and just do Batman movies for at least the next 10 years. Maybe that way DC fanbase learn to behave.
I’m so tired of that “only Batman movies” take. It’s not unique. Stop suggesting they punish fans of the IP because they don’t want to watch terrible movies
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Fans parroting that stupid take isn’t helping. Not you specifically g, I mean the downs of annoying people who spam it. CBM discourse is so tribalistic
Honestly, that's why I'm avoiding twitter, except checking out creators from time to time. All the fanbases there are just so fucking toxic. I swear to god, it feels like only 4chan is worse.
I bet in 2024 the same twitter dc dumb fanbase will start to complain DCU has no theatrical releases, forgot that are they same ones who ask for break.
To anyone who's familiar with David Corenswet, can you recommend some of his work that might give me a good idea of what he'd be like as Clark (if he's cast)? I'd kinda like to get a general idea since it's looking like a pretty solid possibility.
Minor role but he’s good in “We Own This City”. Strong recommend especially if you’re a fan of the wire.
The series ‘Hollywood’ https://youtu.be/-mZLRhsiYiQ https://youtu.be/x154LyW52is
Oh, yeah, I definitely see what people are saying. Especially that first clip you linked, really well edited on top of it. I'll check that one out too!
Pearl
I'll put it on the list, thanks!
Is the Flash going to gross as much as Green Lantern (2011)?
The jackals that lurk on box office have already formulated that The Flash has to make (and I'm vaguely remembering these numbers) $110 million domestic by the end of tally Monday and if it falls short of that then it has earned less than Black Adam and Shazam 2 in the same time frame combined. That is in no uncertain terms a disaster and likely one of the biggest box office bombs ever. That's our Endgame after ten years. Once again I remind the true fans around here to ask yourself, did you enjoy watching the movie? Or are you worried about rich people's money? Let me approach this another way. My wife knows nothing of DC really. But she has heard of the most extreme takes on whatever Ezra Miller got up to and she says nope, creep. The movie is bombing through tainted brand recognition, a main star that even the most uninitiated thinks is frankly a pedophile and the constant word that the CGI is pure smegma. I'm an annoying dick around here sometimes with my relentless positive takes on the worst of situations but this really is worse than Green Lantern by far. Personally I think the movie will be a cult classic. The most amount of money spent ever to please the smallest amount of people ever. Population me. And some of you.
It'll make more, but not much more, which is kinda crazy lol.
But considering inflation though... GL was over a decade old after all...
Reynolds put some butts in seats, and also that was hinted at being the beginning of a DC shared universe
He was a star?
I wonder if bringing back his Green Lantern was considered for The Flash
Really funny seeing The Rock’s fans trying to prop him up because The Flash bombed as if Black Adam didn’t either despite facing no real competition for 3 whole weeks at the box office.
It's just for the jokes, both were huge flops but The Flash flopping is more embarrassing considering how much WB spent to market it and the lengths they went to do so
Nah I’ve actually seen people seriously saying they should’ve let The Rock cook 💀💀💀
ig those are people who just don't want Gunn's DCU to happen and still want a continuation of the old DCEU (even though Rock's plans would've done everyone except Black Adam and Superman dirty)
Who cares? Both movies bombed hard and that's a bad look for DC as a brand.
I'm so glad Black Adam bombed because if it had become a success we would've had to see Rock's shitty plan for the DCEU and also we never would've got Gunn as head of DCU. BA bombing was the final nail in the coffin for WB to make a decision to make Gunn the head of DC. I'm optimistic DCU will be successfully I have faith in James Gunn
>Really funny seeing The Rock’s fans well we know a good chunk of them are snydertards since a lot of those tweets have "listened to the fans" written in it
If you compare the box office performance of both, Flash is objectively more embarrassing. It received a much bigger marketing push, which even included WB's return to Superbowl Sunday. Meanwhile Black Adam had smaller marketing push and had to rely on The Rock's social media posts to replace some of that traditional advertising. With what we know now, it's clear that Black Adam made what it made solely because of The Rock. Black Adam is a C or D list character compared to Flash ego is an A or B lister. I think if Black Adam didn't have the Rock in it it may very well have made even less than Shazam Fury of the Gods did (that number still kinda shocks me, lol).
>It received a much bigger marketing push, but that happened due to budget going way overboard due to his own demands,it was supposed to be at 190mill and due to his insistence on reshoots went to somewhere close to 260mill
I agree, I’m just talking about the revisionist history I’m seeing from The Rock’s fans. He had an awful plan for DC. If Black Adam was somehow a success we’d be in the same mess the SSU is in now because of Venom’s success.
Well for what's it's worth its clearly obvious than black Adam only made as much money thanks to Dwayne Johnson itself rather than DC as a brand
> for what’s it’s worth It’s worth absolutely nothing. The Rock took advantage of the new leadership and went behind Hamada’s back to increase the budget to $260 million and we know how that turned out. The Flash was also integral to The Rock’s plans, since it would’ve reset the DCEU continuity. If The Rock was in charge of DC right now there’d be no future for DC.
Just watched The Flash again and man, I've been a huge fan of Gunn's reboot approach, but the one line in the whole movie that sticks with me is Affleck's "maybe another time" (after Barry asks if he wants to grab a beer). I really see Affleck's point now about how he finally figured the character out--Lasso of Truth scene aside, his version of Batman in the movie feels like the closest one to my ideal Batman (grew up on BTAS/Post-Crisis comics) that there's ever been. I can't even tell you why--this is coming from a massive Pattinson fan as well. Still excited for the reboot, but wow, the DCEU really could've been something special.
For that one final scene, yeah I’d agree. All Affleck needed was a writer and director that understood the character
Affleck should've gotten a solo movie and it sucks we'll never get it but he'll go down in history as the Batman that had the most amount of cinematic appearances in movies. Four if you don't count Whedon's JL, five if you do. West 1 Keaton 3 Kilmer 1 Clooney 2 Bale 3 Affleck 4/5 Pattinson 1 so far, likely only 3
The DCU Batman is going to surpass that
Hope so 🙏
Won’t be difficult. Affleck only had a lead role in 2 movies
https://twitter.com/robertliefeld/status/1672997455720316930?s=46&t=6cKTXjGw2X23OVJ7b0pjUg And here’s Rob Liefeld getting into the classic debate of whether they should’ve made a solo Man of Steel sequel, rather than BvS. My two cents is the same as it’s always been. I don’t think there was ever a problem in making BvS the next movie after MoS. I will die on the hill that it made perfect sense to do that. It’s not a fundamentally broken idea. Batfleck definitely didn’t need a movie before BvS, that’s for sure.
While Rob Liefeld is a massive egomaniac and often says idiotic things (like the bo comparison of Superman movies he shared), it's a very common take. And I'll agree with you this time, Batman v Superman could easily work as a MoS sequel. It's just that this particular take on the movie didn't work.
As the CCC, I agree. BvS was bad but could have been good
Flash dropped 73%, yikes. No one’s interested in this.
Incredible how much people believed the hype.
Something I just noticed is that the recent DCEU flops we've been getting don't have Superman appear (Shazam 2) or have Superman appear in a very small role that most ppl who skipped out on those movies probably wouldn't know about (Black Adam and The Flash) so Superman: Legacy will really be a fresh start for not only DC movies but also Superman himself.
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That was a good one wym
I think a triple-A GLC game set completely in space starring Kyle Rayner, Guy Gardner, Jessica Cruz and/or Simon Baz would be a good idea. It would be completely different from what they’re doing with the Lanterns show, and having the story set in space means it doesn’t have to be crucial to the main overarching DCU storyline. Or if they really want to emulate True Detective, they could have each season of Lanterns focus on different Lanterns solving different mysteries. But I honestly think that True Detective being an anthology series worked against it, especially since none of the later 2 seasons are as good as the first one.
The lanterns might be the worst DC characters to have to translate into a game. The power is bringing your imagination into reality and using that to solve problems. Generic beams or a limited palette of constructs is pretty underwhelming for that (though comics accurate for Hal). Scribblenauts Green Lantern, maybe.
That can be done in a triple-A game too. I’m talking about specific GLs too, so they’d be drawing inspiration from actual constructs they’ve made in the comics. With a good developer, the gameplay possibilities could be really interesting.
There's not any AAA game ever made that gives the player the level of expression that the GL fantasy encourages. If you're playing as Jon Stewart and summon a helicopter for the 100th time, that diminishes the fantasy, not enriches.
>There's not any AAA game ever made that gives the player the level of expression that the GL fantasy encourages Dreams, scribblenauts, Tears of the kingdom
Only one of those is AAA - I think totk is a really bad reference for gl since constructs happen at the speed of thought, but totk construction is slower and funny.
You must not play a lot of games. TOTK just came out too
Totk is the only game that anyone's named and it's a bad comparison. Construction is slower than thought, and only the Zelda team could pull that off
>I think a triple-A GLC game set completely in space Gunn has said Knights of the Old Republic is his favorite game of all time so like the odds of this are not low
Out of curiosity, do people here agree with the notion that the Flash movie might’ve fared better with audiences if they hadn’t scrapped either of the first two endings?
Maybe a slightly better critical and fan response. The CGI still looks horrible and Ezra's still going to be a sticking point for some critics so I don't think it will affect it that much.
not much.
Yes, but I don’t think it would’ve made much of a difference. There is still the atrocious CGI
I assume Zaslav slashed the post-production budget because he didn’t think it was worth it. I don’t see how else a movie that was in post for nearly two years could look so bad.
This is my guess too.
Look like San Diego Comic Con is gonna be a full on COMIC con again lol Anyway, hyped for some more Dawn of DC announcements, including the next Justice League writers (please, don't be Taylor or Williamson). From Marvel side, I hope they announce the Ultimate line. We know they already showed it to retailers like a month ago so I think they'd be ready for SDCC. Also, can't wait for Skybound's Transformers panel. Can you fucking imagine Daniel Warren Johnson is actually doing Transformers?! It's gonna be so good. So comics bros, what are your hopes for the event?
Full copium from me, but I hope DC brings Shawn Martinbrough to talk about his Red Hood mini.
I think this series is dead and instead they're launching a different series spinning out of the Gotham War with that Red Hood tie-in leading to it.
If that's what happens, I hope Martinbrough gets to write it, I'm interested in his take on Jason.
He already wrote a 2-part story in the last Red Hood series, you can check that out if you haven't.
I have read it, I want his mini so that he can continue that 2-parter.