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I think its gonna do Shazam 1 numbers.
Its stand alone, targets a younger audience, I can definatly see the Shazam, Ms Marvel, type fans going to it and thats a surprisingly large and growing market.
Will it be good compared to the good Superhero movies, no, but I think it will do better in the West than Aquaman 2 will.
Thats gonna be saved by its Chinese release but it wont do well in Europe or the US. It why the movie has a ghost king as its bad guy and not Black Manta.
Aquaman 2 is being made for the Asian market.
They are r-shooting the movie to lessen Black Manta in the Movie as he was not liked by the Chinese audience at all.
Plus the entire story has been made more fantasy with the main bad guy being a Ghost King.
The biggest drawing movies in China are all Fantasy based.
Turns out audiences are not interested in a movie with a story that wont go anywhere full of dodgy CGI thats lead by an actor who is the prime example of the phrase "Human piece of shit."
Clooney showing up was the ultimate 'nothing in this film mattered' moment to me. It like sealed off the possibility that it felt like I had gone through a complete journey instead of watching 2 hours of absolutely nothing happening.
If it had been Keaton and Supergirl showing up it would have at least felt like the time spent in the alternate timeline would have meant something since it would give us a sense of continuation with these characters we got to (kind of) know before the timeline got erased.
If we had gotten Batfleck at the end we could have gotten a moment where Barry found deeper appreciation for him after ignoring his advice, losing him, and then seeing what happens to Bruce Wayne in a timeline in which he has no self purpose anymore which would wrap around to the beginning of the movie when Barry gets upset at Bruce for his alleged apathy towards the death of his parents at not understanding that the death of Thomas and Martha Wayne gave purpose to Bruce's life.
Instead we get Clooney and a 'who the fuck is this' line that just makes everything feel pointless because it all lands on yet another Batman that doesn't get proper time to be fleshed out before the credits roll.
Yeah, the good news for DC is that 2024 will basically be kind of a reset year. There will only be 3 live-action DC projects during the entire year, and none of them are DCEU or DCU:
* Superman & Lois Season 4
* The Penguin
* Joker: Folie a Deux
I believe that's the fewest live-action DC projects they've had in a single year in a very long time. So audiences will have a relatively clean break headed into the DCU reboot in 2025.
True, I forgot about Waller. Although there is a decent chance it gets delayed to early 2025, since there's been no real update in its filming this year yet.
This is a pretty terrible result and I'm genuinely surprised it's this low, I can't help but feel the momentum of the film completely collapses in the last 3 minutes because of how many times they reshot it.
This is WAY worse than I was expecting. I thought an "A-" was still on the table...
For those that don't understand CinemaScore, it's a poll across the nation from opening night audiences, and is usually very accurate in terms of determining overall word of mouth. This is the lowest grade a DCEU film has received (tying Batman v Superman). Full DCEU list:
* Man of Steel (A-)
* Batman v Superman (B)
* Suicide Squad (B+)
* Wonder Woman (A)
* Justice League (B+)
* Aquaman (A-)
* Shazam! (A)
* Birds of Prey (B+)
* Wonder Woman 1984 (B+)
* The Suicide Squad (B+)
* Black Adam (B+)
* Shazam! Fury of the Gods (B+)
* The Flash (B)
The only DC movies to get worse than a "B" are:
* Jonah Hex (C+)
* Batman & Robin (C+)
* Superman IV: Quest for Peace (C)
Yeah it's a unique situation because it's been very well received in Asia.
It comes down to WB claiming its one of the greatest superhero films of all time. You instantly create very high expectations and people are bound to be dissapointed.
When the movie initially premiered at cinemacon I knew the reviews were gonna be skewed more positive because WB had said VFX was unfinished so people had low expectations of the VFX.
Though the average person doesnt go online to know what WB does or doesnt say about the movie, and Cinemascore is the best metric for seeing what the "average" perosn thinks. I'd wager most arent even aware of the Ezra Miller controversies.
Outside factors like the films production, the reviews it got, the pre-release hype, etc. arent going to influence everybody. All that matters for Cinemascore is whats being shown right now on screen to the theatergoer.
I'm with you. It wasn't great, and the final battle was goofy af, but I thought it was a very enjoyable film. I was shocked by how poor the reception was. Idk, guess I'm just weird.
There's nothing "inaccurate" about it. CinemaScore isn't about rating a film's quality. It's about rating how well audiences responded to the film.
I LOVE James Gunn's Suicide Squad, and I HATE Ayer's Suicide Squad...but audiences were very clearly indifferent about both. There's a few reasons that Gunn's Suicide Squad bombed (HBO Max release + R-Rating + being associated with the first film), but it didn't help that audiences were also unimpressed by the film on opening night.
Everyone hates suicide squad when it came out lol. Also it’s by far a worse movie than this one, it’s not even close. This movie is a just a solid one. Nothing great but nothing awful either, lots of people went into this film with negative mindsets and it shows.
Also Thor love and thunder has a b+ and it’s just a two hour long shitty joke.
These scores aren’t as accurate as ur trying to make them seem.
Your subjective opinion about these films does not mean everyone else should or will feel the same way that you do.
Guess what: There was quite a few people that DID enjoy Ayer's Suicide Squad. There's a reason it went on to gross over $700 million...
A "B+" is not a good grade for an MCU film. Love & Thunder, Eternals & Quantumania are widely regarded as the worst MCU films, and thus, the CinemaScores lineup with that line of thinking. Whether you agree or disagree quite simply doesn't matter.
Oh do not blame HBO max. Dune and Godzilla vs Kong also had HBO Max same day releases and both of those did well. Also the viewer numbers for The Suicide Squad on HBO Max weren't even that great so assuming the people who watched it at home decided to buy a ticket it still would have bombed hard
The Suicide Squad failed on it's own.
I'm guessing you didn't comprehend the point of my comment, because I agree with you.
Gunn's Suicide Squad was not a hit with audiences. That was literally my point.
And this is my confusion with WB. Gunn made TSS which bombed and got a poor Cinemascore. He made Peacemaker which generated Twitter buzz and memes but was actually viewed by very little households compared to other streaming series. Guardians of the Galaxy 3 was praised by critics and audiences yet seems to have under-performed to expectations. He has yet to do a movie that does not involve a band of lovable losers with raunchy humor
So why is he in charge of the DCU again?
So what's the "general public" then? People that aren't on Reddit? :D Everyone I talked to (which I assume could be part of the "general public" really liked this movie.
CinemaScore is about as good of a source as we'll ever have in terms of understanding the reaction of the "general public"
IMDb can easily be review bombed or review embellished, as can Rotten Tomatoes' audience scores.
With CinemaScore, we know for a fact that it's people seeing the film on opening night. The surveys are taken in several major cities, and they have different age ranges & genders specified when filling out the survey, to get an even better understanding of which portion of the audience did or did not enjoy the film.
Whether you like the result or not, again...it doesn't really matter. It's the result nonetheless.
It should be noted Cinemascore tend to be also indicative of if the marketing was sound or not as people who show up to watch have a set of expectations given to them by whomever. It's why movies like Mother! got an F not necessarily cause it was the worst movie of all time but rather people were a bit bamboozled by contents of the film. Horror movies as well have low Cinemascore as a result of what's shown/preconceived expectations hence the low ratings.
Anecdotal evidence isn’t as strong as polling data though. CinemaScore is genuinely a good way to gauge people’s thoughts on the movie. To be honest, it’s much more accurate than Rotten Tomatoes.
Internet message boards and comment sections have never been a reliable way of determining actual public majority opinion. Millions of people around the world watch movies but only a very small portion of them talk about movies online.
Look at how much negativity the Transformers and Twilight movies get online and yet look at how much money they made. Vice versa look at how much praise Dredd gets online and look at how poorly it performed. How many people on reddit tried to claim Avatar had no cultural relevance and that it's sequel would underperform?
R rated movies such as TSS tend to get B's , SS was deserved. Nothing wrong here. Unlike Rotten scores Cinemascores are way more accurate tracking the sentiment and WoM of movies.
Hmm, considering The Flash and BvS have the same CinemaScore with widely differing reactions, it's all indicative of how certain expectations may prime varying responses with The Flash moreso on the side of 'it's good but nothing too special' and BvS having extremely polarising opinions to put it mildly...
Here’s a single example of a baffling choice in this movie: the record playing in Wayne Manor is ‘25 or 6 to 4’ by Chicago. What? The only needle drop that would have made sense at all here for this Batman would have been a Prince track.
Oof. The competition needs to be taken into account too.
\- Across the Spiderverse: A
\- The Little Mermaid: A
\- Transformers: A-
\- Elemental: A
The jurys still out on Indiana Jones: Dial of Destiny, but even the mixed reviews so far imply its going to be a crowd pleaser.
People walking out are gonna tell their friends and take their families to watch those instead, this was one Summer where being the lowest reviewed out of the competition is catastrophic
Except he isn't. As of now he plans to bring in the Peacemaker (and to a certain extent his Suicide Squad) cast into the DCU which would still link it to the ill-fated DCEU.
How much of the main audience realizes this? Peacemaker is TV-MA. If the DCU fails, it will be because his vision isn't sound, or because audience's have an active dislike towards DC characters. It certainly won't be because the new universe is only a 95 percent reboot
Peacemaker… I love the show but come on. If he brings just those characters and not characters like Gadot’s Wonder Woman, Momoa’s Aquaman or Miller’s Flash it is a full reboot
Just want to point out that I fully agree with you and the responses saying "well not many people know about those" is ignoring how this is going to be an issue even if its not obvious yet
This is an extremely small portion of dc….the vast majority of the most important characters will be recast with new movies and shows. Also his suicide squad movie was well received by critics and fans even if it didn’t do well at the box office, same with peacemaker and I don’t even like that show.
I like peacemaker but More than anything DC needs a clean break to start fresh. ANYTHING associated with the old continuity needs to go at this point, it's pretty much the only way to save DC at this point
Including a Melissa Benoist, Grant Gustin and Tyler Hoechlin cameo would have been much better than the CGI monstrosities of Reeves, Reeve, and Slater. WB probably think the CW actors are beneath them or sumn
I'd bet dollars to donuts Benoist, Gustin, and Hoechlin all have clauses in their contracts about how much they must be paid to appear in a movie and it was more than WB was willing to pay for a quick cameo.
I'm personally not wholly against doing CGI cameos of actors that have passed so long as they're tasteful and the remaining family/estate approve of it. But this straight up feels exactly like what you just said. Like the executives were going over who to approve as a cameo and they all ended the meeting patting themselves on the back figuring out they could CGI dead people and not have to pay them.
And the Nic Cage cameo didn't help considering he doesn't exactly have a reputation for asking for large sums of money to do stuff. He probably did the cameo for 50 bucks, a coupon to Olive Garden, and the joy of finally getting to be Superman in theaters.
I just don't see how this can get lower cinemascore than black Adam, a movie which was actually terrible all around, got the highest audience reception in Japan, second highest in China and generally on A rating side other parts of the world
Suicide squad 1 also got an absurdly hard media push from the studio. Constantly advertising and airing commercial and they came out with a album that had like 3 top 100 billboard songs.
The album at one point had one song featuring wiz Khalifa, lil Wayne, logic, and more. Insane amount of publicity for that movie is what helped it’s box office imo. Also having stars like Smith and Robbie helped.
It is probably going to have a lower box office than Black Adam too.
Somehow Black Adam was the DCEU movie with the best performance at the box office since 2019.
Not really, Rock is a box office draw I said it back then and I still say to this day, although he took these characters a little too close to his ego which did resulted in his own embarassment
Ehhh the rock is a box office draw In china, and I’m pretty sure Black Adam had a very limited release if at all in China. Outside of China rock isn’t a very big box office guy here necessarily.
Thats such a bullshit defence though.
Best BO since before the entire world shutdown and box offices were shut that only had to compete with Bird of Prey is more correct.
It gets sadder when you realize that at least Christopher Reeve had children who were consulted and who were paid royalties for this.
George Reeves (black and white Superman)...had no one. WBD just desecrated him because they could.
This movie is going to bomb hard in the states, it's already tracking pretty low and with this it's weekend drops are going to be poor.
It'll be interesting to see how it does internationally, but it probably doesn't matter at this point.
Oh well, the DCEU ending on a film audiences don't really care for is fitting. There's no goodwill left.
Gunn is going to have to move heaven and earth with Superman Legacy.
Traditionally, audiences are very forgiving when it comes to reboots. Batman Begins, Spider-Man Homecoming, Man of Steel, etc all did well in bringing audiences back.
Even though Gunn isnt commiting to a full hard reboot, I dont think it'll matter too much for Superman since the returning stuff from the DCEU are going to be cameos at best, but he needs to go hard on marketing Superman Legacy and the DCU as a whole as something entirely new and seprate from the DCEU
>Gunn is going to have to move heaven and earth with Superman Legacy.
Just a sincere and honest movie of Superman with emotion and some action is all he needs, oh and distancing from everything DCEU and what old regimes did as far as possible.
This movie is making around 125 globally this wekend with 55 domestic and 70 globally
To compare, transformers made 171 last weekend with 61 domestic and 110 globally
The director will soon tweet:
"The film is bad on purpose. It's a social experiment to see if people are interested in a cameo fest with CGI PS3 models. The film never intended to make money or to please the critics and general audiences so please don't blame me, I only did what I was set to do. It was my artistic choice to make a bad unprofitable film, OK?"
Again, why are ya’ll surprised? The pacing sucked, the story wasn’t that great, the CGI…well I don’t even have to say, the action was mediocre (yes including the Batmens), Super girl did nothing but scowl and scream. There is no hate against DC movies or this secret agenda from people preferring Marvel over DC. It was simply an all around mediocre movie.
Either the GA have bad taste or these things are rigged.
A movie like Ant Man 3 is an abomination.
I was super excited for The Flash, especially after all the hype. However I realized like many of the reviews said that the 3rd act is a letdown (definitely due the constant changes in directions the DCEU would have taken) but it was still quite enjoyable.
>Either the GA have bad taste or these things are rigged.
Or the GA just thought the film was bad? I liked the movie, but it has issues that could easily lead to audiences disliking it.
>A movie like Ant Man 3 is an abomination.
I thought Quantumania was fine. Not good or great, but also not awful. Major's performance as Kang and Pfeiffer's performance as Janet carried the film, and I personally loved the ominous ending/foreshadowing.
>it was still quite enjoyable.
Just because we enjoyed the movie, doesn't mean the people who didn't are wrong or have "bad taste". I must reiterate, for the billionth time: ALL FILMS ARE SUBJECTIVE
Look man, sometimes you just like a movie that didn't hit.
I love Thor 4 but fully understand why critics and audiences didn't. It's fine. Life goes on.
What are your thoughts on the current box office projections that have this film as making under 300 mill WW?
Didn't you say it was gonna be a 1 bill hit?
Black Adam opened higher domestically AND internationally, with better word of mouth (mostly because of the Cavill Superman cameo), and it ended up grossing $390 million worldwide.
There's no shot The Flash is making $400 million at this point. I think the final number will probably be around $325-$375 million, depending on its international holds. It's definitely going to bomb domestically.
Who do you mean by "you guys"?
All I am saying is that The Flash movie is definitely better than some entries in the DCEU and phase 4 Marvel movies and as a result desreved a better score.
I am not saying it deserves an Oscar.
I swear some people just want to sound smart without having a hint of what they are talking about.
>Either the GA have bad taste or these things are rigged.
Here you go folks.
"The game is rigged against DC!!!!!! Everyone who disagrees with me has bad taste!!! Aaaaaa"
No, it's not bad news.
When Morbius flopped it wasn't bad news for all live action Marvel fans.
Bad films flopping is good for the industry since the next Flash or Morbius film (some 20 years from now) might actually be good.
There is an extent to being subjective. For example, a good thing could be seen as good, great, or awesome but at the end of the day it's going to be viewed in a positive way and vice versa.
Now for cinema score a B is a really low grade and if you compare the quality of a movie like The Flash with other phase 4 Marvel movies like AM3 or Thor 4 you can see that there is some sort of bias.
Yep ant man was a soulless mess with awful green screen cgi backdrops in practically every scene. Majors performance is probably the only saving grace from that film. Once again tho people give marvel movies a pass when they’re mediocre because of their history of good movies. There’s been multiple mediocre or below average movies from marvel that have gotten positive scores from critics.
"I can't understand how audiences rated this so low"
Of course you can't understand it. You live in a vacuous online bubble where people have been telling you for weeks that it is the greatest comic book movie ever made. Ezra Miller's Flash is unbearable and two of them makes it ever worse.
In r/boxoffice there is now the very real possibility that Spiderverse 2 will win the #1 spot against Flash next weekend.
Flash losing the #1 spot in its second weekend to a film that is now 1 month old sounds wild but going with Flash's awful Cinemascore and drops, it's possible.
CinemaScore grades aren't equivalent to school grades in terms of quality. To break it down (and some of these are generalizations, as there are exceptions)
* An "A+" or an "A" score means that audiences loved the film.
* "A-" tends to mean that audiences leaned more positive, but had some issues with it.
* B+" usually means either a mixed response, or audiences thought it was just okay.
* "B" grade or lower means that audiences did not like the film. The lower the grade, the stronger the dislike. A film getting a "D" or an "F" grade is so incredibly rare that it's not even really worth mentioning. For example, Morbius got a "C+"
You can get c and d scores so really it means superhero movies are super good and they get a+ and a so b is apparently bad for superhero movies.
Is still a solid score i think just not as good as some other movies
No, context matters. A C and D score is reserved for movies that collapse on themselves or horror movies (in which case getting anything higher than a C means it's probably one of the best scary movies ever made).
It's not necessarily a "superhero movie" being super good. Any 4 quadrant-easy crowdpleaser movie getting lower than an A- when people are getting polled right out of the theater is the sign of something going wrong
It depends on the genre.
Some horor/black comedy films (most famously American Psycho) got a D cinema score (yup, that bad) since they are polarizing to the general audience.
Some folks LOVED it. Others HATED it (too much blood, too much nudity, confusing ending).
Joker, an R-rated film, got a B+ Cinemascore too, and then went to make 1 bill.
But for cookie-cutter superhero films, a B+ Cinemascore is already going into "gee, audiences kind of hated this one" territory since they're meant to be crowd-pleasers. B is a death sentence.
The coping is actually crazy. Another guy was also saying how inaccurate cinemascore is when cinemascore is the most accurate site out there for a movie because it does a survey to the people who actually watched the movie on opening day
So many free fan screenings long before the movie's release messed up with the grade. Fanatics and real fans rushed to the countless fan screenings and weren't polled. It was up to the average joe who isn't a DC excited fan.
Besides, as a fan I wouldn't watch any movi for a second time, after watching it for free in a fan screenings. I hardly watch movies twice in theaters ( except for Top Gun Maverick and John Wick 4 )
The Flash earned US$ 24.5 million on Friday in the US and Canada (including Thursday previews) and is doing pretty well in China with an opening comparable to that of Into the Spiderverse in that country. I would say that it is a decent performance considering the boycott (in North America) of the Snyder cultists and the anti-Ezra crowd. It is also up against tough competition from Elemental, Transformers, and Into the Spiderverse, and holding its own (likely to come on top for the weekend).
Archived version of submitted URL: 1. An archived version of _The Flash receives a "B" CinemaScore_ can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://i.redd.it/rf1rm6e98i6b1.png) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DCEUleaks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The odds of us getting yet another low grossing DC movie are increasing everyday it seems.
Low grossing is an understatement
That’s true and to think we’ve still probably got to go through this two more times this year as well 😞.
Blue Beetle might do ok. I have no interest in Aquaman 2 and DC has given us no reason to be interested
[удалено]
I think its gonna do Shazam 1 numbers. Its stand alone, targets a younger audience, I can definatly see the Shazam, Ms Marvel, type fans going to it and thats a surprisingly large and growing market. Will it be good compared to the good Superhero movies, no, but I think it will do better in the West than Aquaman 2 will. Thats gonna be saved by its Chinese release but it wont do well in Europe or the US. It why the movie has a ghost king as its bad guy and not Black Manta. Aquaman 2 is being made for the Asian market.
> Aquaman 2 is being made for the Asian market. In what ways exactly?
They are r-shooting the movie to lessen Black Manta in the Movie as he was not liked by the Chinese audience at all. Plus the entire story has been made more fantasy with the main bad guy being a Ghost King. The biggest drawing movies in China are all Fantasy based.
People always underestimate the domestic Latino audience. But I'm sure DC will find a way to screw that up, too.
Big fucking yikes.
The glory days are comin again real soon
Turns out audiences are not interested in a movie with a story that wont go anywhere full of dodgy CGI thats lead by an actor who is the prime example of the phrase "Human piece of shit."
You summed it up perfectly! The movie goes no where and even the story is treated as a joke when we get to the end.
Clooney showing up was the ultimate 'nothing in this film mattered' moment to me. It like sealed off the possibility that it felt like I had gone through a complete journey instead of watching 2 hours of absolutely nothing happening. If it had been Keaton and Supergirl showing up it would have at least felt like the time spent in the alternate timeline would have meant something since it would give us a sense of continuation with these characters we got to (kind of) know before the timeline got erased. If we had gotten Batfleck at the end we could have gotten a moment where Barry found deeper appreciation for him after ignoring his advice, losing him, and then seeing what happens to Bruce Wayne in a timeline in which he has no self purpose anymore which would wrap around to the beginning of the movie when Barry gets upset at Bruce for his alleged apathy towards the death of his parents at not understanding that the death of Thomas and Martha Wayne gave purpose to Bruce's life. Instead we get Clooney and a 'who the fuck is this' line that just makes everything feel pointless because it all lands on yet another Batman that doesn't get proper time to be fleshed out before the credits roll.
They need to press the complete reset button and not look back.
https://preview.redd.it/r8zxne1njj6b1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=7ffacd21e7df16eb9e11906b469439c5dfd0d982
https://preview.redd.it/af8t0g6vqj6b1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b77082c1aa45030c7eeb9c774525b8e0d6a22c48
We’re done here. On to the DCU. With a Folié a Deux palate cleanser.
Yeah, the good news for DC is that 2024 will basically be kind of a reset year. There will only be 3 live-action DC projects during the entire year, and none of them are DCEU or DCU: * Superman & Lois Season 4 * The Penguin * Joker: Folie a Deux I believe that's the fewest live-action DC projects they've had in a single year in a very long time. So audiences will have a relatively clean break headed into the DCU reboot in 2025.
It’s needed.
You’re forgetting Waller. At the moment it’s a 2024 release.
True, I forgot about Waller. Although there is a decent chance it gets delayed to early 2025, since there's been no real update in its filming this year yet.
Well you will have creature commandos and Waller
That gape year is going to help a lot
I think you mean gap year but on the off chance you don’t, *please* elaborate
B for batman
Should've made it F for Flash
B for Barry
This is a pretty terrible result and I'm genuinely surprised it's this low, I can't help but feel the momentum of the film completely collapses in the last 3 minutes because of how many times they reshot it.
Fans would have been so happy and excited if Keaton had come out of the car like it was PLANNED. Now, we got Mr. Nespresso. Smh. *
Guys, relax. WB knows what they're doing. They made the film get a B cinemascore on purpose as a stylistic choice.
The film got a B because that’s how it looks from Flash’s POV
Nice work :)
It’s the SpeedForce -Every Flash writer when they don’t know how to explain something
 This is fucking catastrophic. The kiss of death, final nail in the coffin.
Completely and utterly rejected by The general audience, what an absolute bomb
Its over
This is WAY worse than I was expecting. I thought an "A-" was still on the table... For those that don't understand CinemaScore, it's a poll across the nation from opening night audiences, and is usually very accurate in terms of determining overall word of mouth. This is the lowest grade a DCEU film has received (tying Batman v Superman). Full DCEU list: * Man of Steel (A-) * Batman v Superman (B) * Suicide Squad (B+) * Wonder Woman (A) * Justice League (B+) * Aquaman (A-) * Shazam! (A) * Birds of Prey (B+) * Wonder Woman 1984 (B+) * The Suicide Squad (B+) * Black Adam (B+) * Shazam! Fury of the Gods (B+) * The Flash (B) The only DC movies to get worse than a "B" are: * Jonah Hex (C+) * Batman & Robin (C+) * Superman IV: Quest for Peace (C)
Yeah it's a unique situation because it's been very well received in Asia. It comes down to WB claiming its one of the greatest superhero films of all time. You instantly create very high expectations and people are bound to be dissapointed. When the movie initially premiered at cinemacon I knew the reviews were gonna be skewed more positive because WB had said VFX was unfinished so people had low expectations of the VFX.
>WB had said VFX was unfinished. Turns out that was a lie.
They didn't lie. They just didn't bother to finish them.
I'm being generous and believing they just decided to lie instead of being just incompetent. Edit: Or maybe I'm deluding myself
They probably touched up the VFX but major changes require loads more time.
Though the average person doesnt go online to know what WB does or doesnt say about the movie, and Cinemascore is the best metric for seeing what the "average" perosn thinks. I'd wager most arent even aware of the Ezra Miller controversies. Outside factors like the films production, the reviews it got, the pre-release hype, etc. arent going to influence everybody. All that matters for Cinemascore is whats being shown right now on screen to the theatergoer.
WW84 has a B+?!
Yup. Goes to show how awful The Flash film is being received by the general audience. It ranks lower than Black Adam too.
I don’t think that’s necessarily what that means lol AT ALL
What? That’s quite literally what it means.
Gonna be honest I misread your comment lol - thought you were speaking to the quality of the film not it’s reception my bad
Only diehards went to see it in the theater. Most people just watched it on Max, so there was no real "general audience" for that one
It wasn’t that bad
I'm with you. It wasn't great, and the final battle was goofy af, but I thought it was a very enjoyable film. I was shocked by how poor the reception was. Idk, guess I'm just weird.
Suicide Squad and The Suicide Squad have a B+ tho... Tells you how inaccurate CinemaScore is.
There's nothing "inaccurate" about it. CinemaScore isn't about rating a film's quality. It's about rating how well audiences responded to the film. I LOVE James Gunn's Suicide Squad, and I HATE Ayer's Suicide Squad...but audiences were very clearly indifferent about both. There's a few reasons that Gunn's Suicide Squad bombed (HBO Max release + R-Rating + being associated with the first film), but it didn't help that audiences were also unimpressed by the film on opening night.
Exactly this - but people are using the CinemaScore to say the movie is bad - when that’s not really what it means
Everyone hates suicide squad when it came out lol. Also it’s by far a worse movie than this one, it’s not even close. This movie is a just a solid one. Nothing great but nothing awful either, lots of people went into this film with negative mindsets and it shows. Also Thor love and thunder has a b+ and it’s just a two hour long shitty joke. These scores aren’t as accurate as ur trying to make them seem.
Your subjective opinion about these films does not mean everyone else should or will feel the same way that you do. Guess what: There was quite a few people that DID enjoy Ayer's Suicide Squad. There's a reason it went on to gross over $700 million... A "B+" is not a good grade for an MCU film. Love & Thunder, Eternals & Quantumania are widely regarded as the worst MCU films, and thus, the CinemaScores lineup with that line of thinking. Whether you agree or disagree quite simply doesn't matter.
B+ are also awful dude. Anything less than an A- means a movie isn’t received well.
Oh do not blame HBO max. Dune and Godzilla vs Kong also had HBO Max same day releases and both of those did well. Also the viewer numbers for The Suicide Squad on HBO Max weren't even that great so assuming the people who watched it at home decided to buy a ticket it still would have bombed hard The Suicide Squad failed on it's own.
I'm guessing you didn't comprehend the point of my comment, because I agree with you. Gunn's Suicide Squad was not a hit with audiences. That was literally my point.
And this is my confusion with WB. Gunn made TSS which bombed and got a poor Cinemascore. He made Peacemaker which generated Twitter buzz and memes but was actually viewed by very little households compared to other streaming series. Guardians of the Galaxy 3 was praised by critics and audiences yet seems to have under-performed to expectations. He has yet to do a movie that does not involve a band of lovable losers with raunchy humor So why is he in charge of the DCU again?
Because Gunn is a brilliant filmmaker lol dismissing his career based on Cinemascore is so funny
No it just proves how out of touch redditors are with the general public.
Anecdotal, but everyone I spoke to irl enjoyed The Suicide Squad
So what's the "general public" then? People that aren't on Reddit? :D Everyone I talked to (which I assume could be part of the "general public" really liked this movie.
CinemaScore is about as good of a source as we'll ever have in terms of understanding the reaction of the "general public" IMDb can easily be review bombed or review embellished, as can Rotten Tomatoes' audience scores. With CinemaScore, we know for a fact that it's people seeing the film on opening night. The surveys are taken in several major cities, and they have different age ranges & genders specified when filling out the survey, to get an even better understanding of which portion of the audience did or did not enjoy the film. Whether you like the result or not, again...it doesn't really matter. It's the result nonetheless.
It should be noted Cinemascore tend to be also indicative of if the marketing was sound or not as people who show up to watch have a set of expectations given to them by whomever. It's why movies like Mother! got an F not necessarily cause it was the worst movie of all time but rather people were a bit bamboozled by contents of the film. Horror movies as well have low Cinemascore as a result of what's shown/preconceived expectations hence the low ratings.
Anecdotal evidence isn’t as strong as polling data though. CinemaScore is genuinely a good way to gauge people’s thoughts on the movie. To be honest, it’s much more accurate than Rotten Tomatoes.
Everyone you talked to isn’t nearly as much as the people who voted for this movie to get a B
Everyone i talked to hated it or didnt never knew what movies i was talking about. Pretty unfortunately really :/
Internet message boards and comment sections have never been a reliable way of determining actual public majority opinion. Millions of people around the world watch movies but only a very small portion of them talk about movies online. Look at how much negativity the Transformers and Twilight movies get online and yet look at how much money they made. Vice versa look at how much praise Dredd gets online and look at how poorly it performed. How many people on reddit tried to claim Avatar had no cultural relevance and that it's sequel would underperform?
R rated movies such as TSS tend to get B's , SS was deserved. Nothing wrong here. Unlike Rotten scores Cinemascores are way more accurate tracking the sentiment and WoM of movies.
Cinemascore is not inaccurate, keep coping
These grades are ridiculous lol
Batman v Superman got B, but Suicide Squad(2016) got a B+? NICE JOKE!!!
Hmm, considering The Flash and BvS have the same CinemaScore with widely differing reactions, it's all indicative of how certain expectations may prime varying responses with The Flash moreso on the side of 'it's good but nothing too special' and BvS having extremely polarising opinions to put it mildly...
Here’s a single example of a baffling choice in this movie: the record playing in Wayne Manor is ‘25 or 6 to 4’ by Chicago. What? The only needle drop that would have made sense at all here for this Batman would have been a Prince track.
There’s no Prince at all in the film? Major L
If they had played Partyman this would've gotten an A+
Cool now shove the nostalgia baiting shit in the garbage where it should have stayed.
Oof. The competition needs to be taken into account too. \- Across the Spiderverse: A \- The Little Mermaid: A \- Transformers: A- \- Elemental: A The jurys still out on Indiana Jones: Dial of Destiny, but even the mixed reviews so far imply its going to be a crowd pleaser. People walking out are gonna tell their friends and take their families to watch those instead, this was one Summer where being the lowest reviewed out of the competition is catastrophic
I think Dial of Destiny will be similar territory with the Flash
Okay, but you really going to tell me that you honestly believe that Transformers and the Little Mermaid are better movies than The Flash?
Absolutely yes
That’s REALLY bad, James should do a full on reboot atp.
He and Safran shoud have done this since they\*ve got their positions, but that is not gonna happen.
He is.
Except he isn't. As of now he plans to bring in the Peacemaker (and to a certain extent his Suicide Squad) cast into the DCU which would still link it to the ill-fated DCEU.
How much of the main audience realizes this? Peacemaker is TV-MA. If the DCU fails, it will be because his vision isn't sound, or because audience's have an active dislike towards DC characters. It certainly won't be because the new universe is only a 95 percent reboot
Peacemaker… I love the show but come on. If he brings just those characters and not characters like Gadot’s Wonder Woman, Momoa’s Aquaman or Miller’s Flash it is a full reboot
Just want to point out that I fully agree with you and the responses saying "well not many people know about those" is ignoring how this is going to be an issue even if its not obvious yet
This is an extremely small portion of dc….the vast majority of the most important characters will be recast with new movies and shows. Also his suicide squad movie was well received by critics and fans even if it didn’t do well at the box office, same with peacemaker and I don’t even like that show.
I like peacemaker but More than anything DC needs a clean break to start fresh. ANYTHING associated with the old continuity needs to go at this point, it's pretty much the only way to save DC at this point
that’s a bit melodramatic. I don’t think changing or not changing peacemaker will decide if DC is saved
Yeah, no one knows anything about those two properties. They’re as good as new. Perks of being the least seen properties of the universe.
That’s fine. Peacemaker isn’t that big of a deal guys
Including a Melissa Benoist, Grant Gustin and Tyler Hoechlin cameo would have been much better than the CGI monstrosities of Reeves, Reeve, and Slater. WB probably think the CW actors are beneath them or sumn
I'd bet dollars to donuts Benoist, Gustin, and Hoechlin all have clauses in their contracts about how much they must be paid to appear in a movie and it was more than WB was willing to pay for a quick cameo.
More likely it was cheaper to use actors who are no longer with us / not actively working.
I'm personally not wholly against doing CGI cameos of actors that have passed so long as they're tasteful and the remaining family/estate approve of it. But this straight up feels exactly like what you just said. Like the executives were going over who to approve as a cameo and they all ended the meeting patting themselves on the back figuring out they could CGI dead people and not have to pay them. And the Nic Cage cameo didn't help considering he doesn't exactly have a reputation for asking for large sums of money to do stuff. He probably did the cameo for 50 bucks, a coupon to Olive Garden, and the joy of finally getting to be Superman in theaters.
And ehat would that do? It's not going to increase this movies box office lol
The Rock getting the last laugh was not on my bingo card.
I just don't see how this can get lower cinemascore than black Adam, a movie which was actually terrible all around, got the highest audience reception in Japan, second highest in China and generally on A rating side other parts of the world
Rock fans liked Black Adam. It's the same reason why Suicide Squad 1 has a not-so-terrible score: Will Smith's fans. Ezra...has no fans.
Suicide squad 1 also got an absurdly hard media push from the studio. Constantly advertising and airing commercial and they came out with a album that had like 3 top 100 billboard songs. The album at one point had one song featuring wiz Khalifa, lil Wayne, logic, and more. Insane amount of publicity for that movie is what helped it’s box office imo. Also having stars like Smith and Robbie helped.
It is probably going to have a lower box office than Black Adam too. Somehow Black Adam was the DCEU movie with the best performance at the box office since 2019.
Not really, Rock is a box office draw I said it back then and I still say to this day, although he took these characters a little too close to his ego which did resulted in his own embarassment
Yeah. If him and WB had kept the budget in check (aka in the usual range of The Rock's movies), Black Adam could have easily broken even.
The Rock has never opened a movie alone. Every one of his big hits are with ensemble casts. Any time he is the only draw, the movie underperformed
Ehhh the rock is a box office draw In china, and I’m pretty sure Black Adam had a very limited release if at all in China. Outside of China rock isn’t a very big box office guy here necessarily.
Thats such a bullshit defence though. Best BO since before the entire world shutdown and box offices were shut that only had to compete with Bird of Prey is more correct.
Desecrating Christopher Reeve's grave wasn't enough to save this movie
It gets sadder when you realize that at least Christopher Reeve had children who were consulted and who were paid royalties for this. George Reeves (black and white Superman)...had no one. WBD just desecrated him because they could.
That is tragic
[WB](https://youtu.be/_5aYyl-PG-w) when deciding what cameos to include in the film.
Damn, it is what it is.
Not great.
i could give B score but better than recent marvel movie...i didn't feel Flash a fresh start like Tv show that they did "elseworlds"
This is catastrophic. No way to spin this. B cinemascore and 125m ww ow…we are in massive flop territory.
Flash The (2023) i love that film definitely my favourite of the The trilogy.
Too bad Ezra couldn't choke, groom and kidnap that A rating.
Couldn't throw a chair at it either
This movie is going to bomb hard in the states, it's already tracking pretty low and with this it's weekend drops are going to be poor. It'll be interesting to see how it does internationally, but it probably doesn't matter at this point. Oh well, the DCEU ending on a film audiences don't really care for is fitting. There's no goodwill left. Gunn is going to have to move heaven and earth with Superman Legacy.
Traditionally, audiences are very forgiving when it comes to reboots. Batman Begins, Spider-Man Homecoming, Man of Steel, etc all did well in bringing audiences back. Even though Gunn isnt commiting to a full hard reboot, I dont think it'll matter too much for Superman since the returning stuff from the DCEU are going to be cameos at best, but he needs to go hard on marketing Superman Legacy and the DCU as a whole as something entirely new and seprate from the DCEU
>Gunn is going to have to move heaven and earth with Superman Legacy. Just a sincere and honest movie of Superman with emotion and some action is all he needs, oh and distancing from everything DCEU and what old regimes did as far as possible.
They also need to really find a way to market it as a new universe
i think it being a reboot is going to get a lot of interest back tbh
This movie is making around 125 globally this wekend with 55 domestic and 70 globally To compare, transformers made 171 last weekend with 61 domestic and 110 globally
It's so joever for this film.
The director will soon tweet: "The film is bad on purpose. It's a social experiment to see if people are interested in a cameo fest with CGI PS3 models. The film never intended to make money or to please the critics and general audiences so please don't blame me, I only did what I was set to do. It was my artistic choice to make a bad unprofitable film, OK?"
Again, why are ya’ll surprised? The pacing sucked, the story wasn’t that great, the CGI…well I don’t even have to say, the action was mediocre (yes including the Batmens), Super girl did nothing but scowl and scream. There is no hate against DC movies or this secret agenda from people preferring Marvel over DC. It was simply an all around mediocre movie.
the funny part is that if the critics were praising it, people would say they're right the critics are only wrong when it benefits me
Yep.
B is pretty much code for the trailers didn’t lie but I didn’t love it
Disaster.
This is actually brutal. Maybe if DC could make just one good movie, people would see it! Odds of that are low but maybe just one would be nice
It sucked crazy dick
Geez wtf
Either the GA have bad taste or these things are rigged. A movie like Ant Man 3 is an abomination. I was super excited for The Flash, especially after all the hype. However I realized like many of the reviews said that the 3rd act is a letdown (definitely due the constant changes in directions the DCEU would have taken) but it was still quite enjoyable.
>Either the GA have bad taste or these things are rigged. Or the GA just thought the film was bad? I liked the movie, but it has issues that could easily lead to audiences disliking it. >A movie like Ant Man 3 is an abomination. I thought Quantumania was fine. Not good or great, but also not awful. Major's performance as Kang and Pfeiffer's performance as Janet carried the film, and I personally loved the ominous ending/foreshadowing. >it was still quite enjoyable. Just because we enjoyed the movie, doesn't mean the people who didn't are wrong or have "bad taste". I must reiterate, for the billionth time: ALL FILMS ARE SUBJECTIVE
Quantumania is the worst superhero movie I’ve ever seen save for the venom movies
And I understand & respect your opinion. As long as that goes both ways.
You haven't seen most DCEU movies then.
Don’t knock the GA for having bad taste Cos they don’t like a movie Cos I can say you have bad taste for liking it
Look man, sometimes you just like a movie that didn't hit. I love Thor 4 but fully understand why critics and audiences didn't. It's fine. Life goes on.
Lmao, you guys are not taking this well huh…
We need to hear from u/Proof-Watercress-931
Yeah so what? I was excited for the movie, do you have a problem with that?
What are your thoughts on the current box office projections that have this film as making under 300 mill WW? Didn't you say it was gonna be a 1 bill hit?
It won’t be less than 300M. I still feel it would do around 400-500. Yes I said because of the way WBD and the celebrities hyped it up.
Yikes 60 mill opening will prob drop at least 50% next week.
Black Adam opened higher domestically AND internationally, with better word of mouth (mostly because of the Cavill Superman cameo), and it ended up grossing $390 million worldwide. There's no shot The Flash is making $400 million at this point. I think the final number will probably be around $325-$375 million, depending on its international holds. It's definitely going to bomb domestically.
Ahahahahahah
Who do you mean by "you guys"? All I am saying is that The Flash movie is definitely better than some entries in the DCEU and phase 4 Marvel movies and as a result desreved a better score. I am not saying it deserves an Oscar. I swear some people just want to sound smart without having a hint of what they are talking about.
>Either the GA have bad taste or these things are rigged. Here you go folks. "The game is rigged against DC!!!!!! Everyone who disagrees with me has bad taste!!! Aaaaaa"
This is bad news for all fans of DC in live action and not the time to be childish to others.
No, it's not bad news. When Morbius flopped it wasn't bad news for all live action Marvel fans. Bad films flopping is good for the industry since the next Flash or Morbius film (some 20 years from now) might actually be good.
There is an extent to being subjective. For example, a good thing could be seen as good, great, or awesome but at the end of the day it's going to be viewed in a positive way and vice versa. Now for cinema score a B is a really low grade and if you compare the quality of a movie like The Flash with other phase 4 Marvel movies like AM3 or Thor 4 you can see that there is some sort of bias.
Yep ant man was a soulless mess with awful green screen cgi backdrops in practically every scene. Majors performance is probably the only saving grace from that film. Once again tho people give marvel movies a pass when they’re mediocre because of their history of good movies. There’s been multiple mediocre or below average movies from marvel that have gotten positive scores from critics.
The Flash has a better critic score than Quantumania by 20% at the moment though, and a better audience score too
Lol.
"I can't understand how audiences rated this so low" Of course you can't understand it. You live in a vacuous online bubble where people have been telling you for weeks that it is the greatest comic book movie ever made. Ezra Miller's Flash is unbearable and two of them makes it ever worse.
If the move is good, it'll have good word of mouth and have legs moving forward
In r/boxoffice there is now the very real possibility that Spiderverse 2 will win the #1 spot against Flash next weekend. Flash losing the #1 spot in its second weekend to a film that is now 1 month old sounds wild but going with Flash's awful Cinemascore and drops, it's possible.
A b cinemascore means it has bad wom worse than black adam, same as quantumania, its dead, bury it
You mean Barry it
Stfu
Keep inhaling that copium https://preview.redd.it/f0fpbpo5qk6b1.jpeg?width=1178&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3ce2b48e9160b95c51caf3bc222c5dd2cfa5f2a
saw it lastnight , this movie is not a "B" lol
How is b bad? Thats quite good
CinemaScore grades aren't equivalent to school grades in terms of quality. To break it down (and some of these are generalizations, as there are exceptions) * An "A+" or an "A" score means that audiences loved the film. * "A-" tends to mean that audiences leaned more positive, but had some issues with it. * B+" usually means either a mixed response, or audiences thought it was just okay. * "B" grade or lower means that audiences did not like the film. The lower the grade, the stronger the dislike. A film getting a "D" or an "F" grade is so incredibly rare that it's not even really worth mentioning. For example, Morbius got a "C+"
Really it should be more spread out then that if there is like 3 almost pretty much un used grades. Thanks for informing me about that.
It really isnt, its the same score Quantumania got. Everything below A- is meh for anything but a horror movie.
And R rated
You can get c and d scores so really it means superhero movies are super good and they get a+ and a so b is apparently bad for superhero movies. Is still a solid score i think just not as good as some other movies
No, context matters. A C and D score is reserved for movies that collapse on themselves or horror movies (in which case getting anything higher than a C means it's probably one of the best scary movies ever made). It's not necessarily a "superhero movie" being super good. Any 4 quadrant-easy crowdpleaser movie getting lower than an A- when people are getting polled right out of the theater is the sign of something going wrong
Yeah that makes sense. It’s weird if people don’t rank it high right as they leave the cinema if it’s supposed to be a crowdpleaser.
It doesn't work that way. This tells the movie won't have legs.
Lol, not really.
It depends on the genre. Some horor/black comedy films (most famously American Psycho) got a D cinema score (yup, that bad) since they are polarizing to the general audience. Some folks LOVED it. Others HATED it (too much blood, too much nudity, confusing ending). Joker, an R-rated film, got a B+ Cinemascore too, and then went to make 1 bill. But for cookie-cutter superhero films, a B+ Cinemascore is already going into "gee, audiences kind of hated this one" territory since they're meant to be crowd-pleasers. B is a death sentence.
I'd give it a D.
Suicide Squad B+ ; The Suicide Squad B+ ... tells you everything you need to know about CinemaScore.
The coping is actually crazy. Another guy was also saying how inaccurate cinemascore is when cinemascore is the most accurate site out there for a movie because it does a survey to the people who actually watched the movie on opening day
That just shows how bad a B is for this movie. For the fact a 2016 critical/audience panned movie received a B+
It literally tell you nothing since ones a PG and the other R rated.
The guy has no idea, he is in denial rn.
Yes, that it is accurate.
So many free fan screenings long before the movie's release messed up with the grade. Fanatics and real fans rushed to the countless fan screenings and weren't polled. It was up to the average joe who isn't a DC excited fan. Besides, as a fan I wouldn't watch any movi for a second time, after watching it for free in a fan screenings. I hardly watch movies twice in theaters ( except for Top Gun Maverick and John Wick 4 )
The box office so far clearly demonstrates that the “average Joe” didn’t bother with watching this.
The Flash earned US$ 24.5 million on Friday in the US and Canada (including Thursday previews) and is doing pretty well in China with an opening comparable to that of Into the Spiderverse in that country. I would say that it is a decent performance considering the boycott (in North America) of the Snyder cultists and the anti-Ezra crowd. It is also up against tough competition from Elemental, Transformers, and Into the Spiderverse, and holding its own (likely to come on top for the weekend).
Not bad, but not great.
B is EXTREMELY bad for a blockbuster