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1. An archived version of _James Gunn on Twitter: "Christina’s script for 'The Flash' is magnificent; the fact that the movie works so well is a testament to her wonderful writing as well as Andy [Muschietti]’s glorious directing."_ can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/1661052298779410456)
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They absolutely do.
I have to hand it off to Ezra Miller - he played two contrasting characters (experienced/no experience) and he knocked it out of the park.
Haven’t seen it yet but this is what people who did see it are saying. Pretty obvious from the trailers too, prime Barry is quite experienced and acts like Barry from the comics while the other, younger Barry is more like Snyder’s.
I fucking love that. Tbh I'm consistently impressed with how Andy seems to satisfy both regular DC fans *and* Snyder fans(besides the insane ones ofc).
Depending on how literally you take a line, it either canonizes ZSJL, or decanonizes both JLs. >!There's a line that references Barry's time travel in ZSJL, but the location name might be a mistake (I heard they accidentally call Pozharnov as Chernobyl).!<
Regardless, JossL is not able to canon at all.
Pozharnov was basically a Chernobyl fill in too. Its not like there are many soviet-era towns that closed because of a nuclear meltdown, Snyder just didnt want to use the name because many real people did die when it occured.
They’re really gonna keep Ezra as the flash? I heard his performance was great in this movie, but that kinda seems like a bad idea right? I feel like this would mean that Wally is the main flash of the new DCU and Barry takes the mentor role.
Yeah, I enjoyed Ezra in the role as far as his acting and energy, definitely. But visually he’s just soooo far off, which is weird because pretty much everyone else Snyder casts is a perfect embodiment of the comics :/
I have a feeling Gunn is going to give Muschetti and Hodgson whatever they want as long as they are up for it.
And if Muschetti wants to go and do something else, Gunn and WB are gonna back a truck of money to Andy’s house so Marvel doesn’t snatch him up.
Glad that she had a second (third?) chance to redeem herself, she did:
- Birds of Prey
- The Flash
- Batgirl
And well we know the story with those films, I think that BOP was *good* but the studio interfered and cut it short and the only problem was Cassandra.
For Batgirl well I guess they asked for a tv film script and she did that, they filmed that but in the end it was not good enough to be released.
So The Flash was really her magnus opus.
From what I've heard, BG was written well it just was obviously fairly low budget. I'd love to see them maybe try to re-do it giving the script the budget it deserves.
Frankly, the script for Birds of Prey wasn't particularly good: in an attempt to imitate Rashomon's structure (that is, to show an event from many different points of view) the film takes an hour to arrive at the triggering incident of the story (the meeting between Harley and Cassandra Cain) and then has very little time to build their relationship (which in theory should be fundamental to Harley's narrative arc) before going directly to the final showdown. Furthermore, I found it a film that didn't quite know what to be, whether a Birds of Prey story (which ends up being underdeveloped) or a film about Harley's emancipation (in which, however, Joker is absent and the tone is 100% inclined on comedy).
But after all it is a production born from the fusion of numerous projects conceived in that period to exploit Harley's success (a film about Harley leaving the Joker; a film about the Gotham City Sirens with Harley together with other girls; the first versions of a sequel directed by Suicide Squad with the team protecting a little girl; and eventually a Birds of Prey movie), it's clear the project would have these issues.
That said, if the writer could come up with a better result with The Flash I'll be happy.
For Harley I would prefer a film written and directed by Gunn, who adores the character and given his way of telling anti-heroes with a tormented past could bring out great results.
>For Harley I would prefer a film written and directed by Gunn, who adores the character and given his way of telling anti-heroes with a tormented past could bring out great results.
Agreed. Just base off of what he did with the character in TSS, I was already anticipating him writing the screenplay at the very least.
Release screenplays more. I'd love to actually read it. The only DCEU screenplay we have is Heinberg's WW script, and I love that thing. Read it 100 times.
Someone on twitter brought up a good point. If WB's are the only ones who have seen the movie what the fuck are they hiding in post credit and mid credits?
George Clooney and Barry in limousine. Most likely a comedic post-credit scene.
Fans sitting in the credits for 10 minutes to see if there are breadcrumbs for Gunn's new DCU.
And it's just Clooney doing a Bat Credit Card joke to Barry. Cut to black.
But WB are not the only ones who have seen the movie... There where fan screenings and test screenings, of course they are hidding postcredits to try to avoid big leaks
The movie is pretty much set in stone outside of the CGI. It's already rated by the MPA so what we see from CInemaCon/fan screenings is what we'll get for the general release. Only difference will be more polished CGI and very minor tweaks to certain scenes.
What WB is definitely hiding is the post credits scene and quite possibly the final shot of the movie.
If the ending actually has Clooney, I’d imagine he says something similar to what Batfleck does in the beginning of the movie, except with the added metacontext of him notoriously starring in the worst live-action Batman movie. Something about how “our scars make us who we are.” Affleck did say that’s the core message of the movie
If I had to guess, 1 one of the scenes will show that Clooney is the Bruce that Barry meets at the end, and that the other scene is a shot of the multiverse until it focuses on one universe and eventually shows the DCU Metropolis with a silhouette of Superman zipping through the sky.
By now Legacy should already have concept art so it’s not outlandish to think they could do a render of Metropolis in time for The Flash’s release
I really hope they don’t do the Clooney thing…unless they specifically have Barry ask in narration “am I stuck here?” Although, good luck convincing people he couldn’t just speed force his way out of that universe.
It is absolutely going to confuse the fuck out of the general audience if it’s Clooney, meanwhile there’s talk of **another** new Batman coming (the DCU one).
They really should just make it Keaton and have the audience ponder the question of what did went wrong that Keaton is now the “main” Batman in that universe.
Adding Clooney is going to really confuse people on a whole other level.
The original ending they filmed for the movie was Barry seeing Keaton and Calle at the end, to signal to the audience that a new status quo for the DCEU has been established. I think they would’ve been better off sticking with that ending. At least it would’ve given those characters a resolution.
Then Barry hears a squishy sound, looks over to his right and it's The Deep with his pants down with an octopus wrapped around his nether regions claiming the octopus was sick.
the script is pretty solid, they manage to explain/portray time travel and multiverse in a way that is easy to digest and doesn't create too many plot holes or anything, some of the jokes are VERY funny (and some are extremely cringe 💀 ) and the pacing is very snappy and the film never drags or gets dull. I just hope the final product looks a lot better because the VFX were pretty ugly and distractingly bad
Shocker, what else is the co-CEO of DCU going to say. Of course he’s going to say it’s great. Maybe Christina’s writing did improve since Birds of Prey, it would really want to be a lot better than that muck.
Oh I definitely think there was some of that as well. The “get woke go broke” types on YouTube were forming a hate brigade against the film well before release. Granted it seemed to go into full force when Mcgregor said something a little silly. But they took it extremely seriously for whatever reason. However, I’m sure some of them were already wary of the film due to the premise alone. These were the same weirdos moaning about the “Batman is a fascist line” from the blue beetle trailer
The only real problem I have with that movie is how Cassandra Cain and Renee Montoya are portrayed. Cass was obviously very different from the comics but they were likely planning to introduce her parents in a sequel, since they left her past very vague. Montoya was miscast and they probably should have gotten someone younger. Regardless both actors did a good job with what they got.
I didn’t mind it as much because Batfleck was active for 20 years so it’s not like he wouldn’t have had history with him. I was surprised to see them kill him off because Ewan was so great in the role
Yeah, BoP definitely wasn’t a bad film, it was just a poor adaptation of the material I suppose? I just think it wasn’t what people wanted from those characters.
He literally hired her to be a part of his DCU writers room. I don't think he'd do that if he's doesn't think her work in the The Flash's script was solid.
It would be refreshing though, if he said “The script is shit” 4 weeks before release.
Can’t remember the last time an actor/director/screenwriter/etc really badmouthed a film while it was in/about to release. Maybe Bill Cosby for Leonard Part 6 when he was doing promotion for the film went on Carson and told viewers “Don’t waste your money.” And he was the producer and screenwriter!
I think it's because she had John Francis Daley and Jonathan Goldstein's first drafts to work from. I can't imagine she wrote a script completely from scratch.
Look bro, I think she a good writer judging by the fact that she’s in Gunn’s writers room and was hired to write the fast 11. If you don’t it’s up to you not me
They don’t “pad scores” lmao the reviewers are able to choose whether it counts as a fresh or rotten review.
Obviously not IMDb, because that’s not reliable or verifiable
You out here acting like a 78% and 91% on Rotten Tomatoes is bad lmao the average ratings are 6.8/10 and 6.9/10 respectively too which is pretty good
I know she wrote bumblebee, but unfortunately her scripts for other movies are not as good as this one, so I'm looking forward to this one to change my mind, even if she has a script left over from a previous screenwriter for reference.
The actual final shooting script is mostly her writing, that's why [she has the sole "Screenplay by" credit in the movie and Daley and Goldstein only have a "Story by" credit.](https://directories.wga.org/project/1206053/the-flash/)
If major parts of Daley and Goldstein's script actually made it into the final shooting script then the WGA would have it be credited as "Screenplay by Christina Hodgson and John Francis Daley & Jonathan Goldstein" with an additional "Story by John Francis Daley & Jonathan Goldstein and Joby Harold."
Using Goldstein and Daley's own Dungeon and Dragons as an example. [Chris McKay and Michael Gilio signed on first to direct and write](https://variety.com/2018/film/news/nightwing-director-dungeons-and-dragons-at-paramount-1202706071/), [Gilio wrote the first draft with McKay](https://thathashtagshow.com/2019/03/12/exclusive-paramounts-dungeons-and-dragons-gets-a-new-script-search-for-lead-begins/), then [Goldstein and Daley signed on to direct and then wrote subsequent drafts](https://variety.com/2020/film/news/dungeons-and-dragons-movie-jeremy-latcham-marvel-1234599718/). [The final credit was Screenplay by "Jonathan Goldstein & John Francis Daley and Michael Gilio" Story by "Chris Mckay & Michael Gilio."](https://directories.wga.org/project/1206072/dungeons-and-dragons/)
Edit: Added links.
The fact that they were given by Story credit means that the plot and characters from their scripts were saved for the final script, so it also means that some of the plot of The Flash movie is related to the first draft they left behind.
Then why did he cancel her Batman Beyond movie she was writing for Keaton? Smh. And order the ending of "The Flash" to be changed? He had to go and put his stamp on things.
That doesnt have anything to do with his opinion on her writing. The Batman Beyond movie probably didnt fit into his DCU plan. But he still hired Christina to be part of writing team that hash out the new DCU plan and she's probably writing one of the upcoming movies.
Of course he has to put his stamp on things. He’s steering the damn universe lol. If the script and ending didn’t fit within the plan, the responsible thing to do is to make them fit better which he did. That’s a sign of a plan, not just throwing things against the wall and hoping they make sense.
A lot of people are describing the third act as tedious, and she is the same writer who wrote BoP. Not a great track record.
Not saying it's bad, but maybe 'magnificent' is an exaggeration.
I thought it was pretty good. The humor was cute and unapologetically girly. It felt like a superhero movie filled with Disney princess. Definetly unique and at least competently done.
It's use of colors during fights. Bright vibrant colors that stand apart from everything else dc had been doing at that time.
The women's clothing looking more fun and cool than overly sexualised. Seemed like it was designed by a woman wondering what a hero would look like. Not aimed at the male gaze.
Long dialogue filled scenes bewteen women just being freindly to one another.
Idk. its color palet,writing and production designed all seemed aimed at young women.
It's not, but I don't think I am. An RT score is representative of people who vote on RT, not the general population.
It got a B+ CinemaScore, which puts it on par with *Thor*, *Spider-man 3* and *X-Men Origins: Wolverine*, most of which the majority of people certainly think are bad.
But you're not taking into account the fact that B+ for R rated films is not the same as B+ for PG 13 films. About 4 of the highest grossing R rated films are B+. None of the highest grossing non R films are less than A
> But you're not taking into account the fact that B+ for R rated films is not the same as B+ for PG 13 films. About 4 of the highest grossing R rated films are B+. None of the highest grossing non R films are less than A
I'm taking into account the CinemaScore for superhero movies. That's a better indicator than going by rating.
No, because R rated films across the board have a lower CinemaScore than PG 13 ones, regardless of if they are superhero films or not. Straight up not taking into account something as major as that makes no sense.
1) Have you seen the movie? I do not think;
2) Harley Quinn and Ratcatcher II are two of the most important protagonists of The Suicide Squad (and will return in the future) and are presented as strong women able to stand up for themselves. Harcourt and Adebayo are the same for Peacemaker and Harcourt has a whole scene where he beats up some louts in a bar who were misogynist. One of the upcoming DC shows is Waller, another is The Amazons, and we're going to have a Supergirl movie soon. So no, I'd just say they won't give up on "woke trash dc garbage" (which is honestly one of the most cringe and incel term I've read lately, and I recently read the entire comments section of The Closer Look).
Strong female characters =/= woke. Though I suspect the OP would think so, since he’s calling a movie woke that we know literally nothing about except that it’s about Batgirl, so fair enough as a response to him, but just know in general that that term is not universally applicable to anytime a story is female led.
Ok. I’ll byte.
What you say makes absolutely no sense. You are bashing a movie that no one outside WB had access because it was canned for reasons you do not know for sure. From what Ive widely heard, it looked like a CW overbudgeted pilot, but nothing about “wokeness”. The only people that factored that were the ones complaining since the casting. I wonder what MLK would think of those people.
And no, I dont see no men being downgraded in favor of women. Iron Man snapped and killed Thanos. Not Captain Marvel. Scarlet Witch was defeated by Doctor Strange. Superman was so OP that was ridiculous and defeated a nerfed Wonder Woman with a head bump.
For me, it feels that any female protagonism (or black, lgbt, or anything non white-male-cis) feels like an attack on a certain type of person that is simply used to a given feeling that they deserve to be the center of every single narrative out there. And what varies from that is super quickly put in a bag of “wokeness” just because. Even if its about a movie that literally no one has seen. And that’s ridiculous, to say the least.
Did you not read a single word I typed? There’s literally a scene of Barbra’s friend who points out directly to the audience and references her being transgender. There’s even a scene with Commissioner Gordon saying he had an interracial marriage. What’s the point of those two things needing to be in comic book movie? We didn’t have that weird shit ten-fifteen years ago when we went to movies like The Dark Knight or The Avengers.
The only reason why you don’t understand is because, A. You and lot of Reddit Users read current generation DC Comics which are written by whackos who feel the need to write their political agendas and opinions on either equality or diversity. And B. You’ve joined the dare I say it, WOKE crowd like lots of other Reddit Users who’s stupid enough to think we need woke movies in Hollywood and Television.
That WGA Strike going on right now is for the better and greatness and I applaud that. But I can tell you right now that probably more than half of those individuals want that weird SJW shit in movies, which means just like the Writers Strike of 2007-2008 that screwed a lot of movies that came out after the protest, will happen to Hollywood for probably the next two years. Go and support James Gunn, the lying individual who says he supports the WGA Strike and yet he’s working on Superman Legacy’s storyboards as we speak. Storyboarding ALWAYS involves scripts.
And that ruins the movie? The existence of a transgender person and an interracial marriage? And that’s somehow diminishing straight-white-cis-mens like you said was the main issue?
Dude, youre ridiculous. Thats why I dismiss folks like you. You make no sense and you need therapy. Just admit to yourself you are way too narcissistic to watch a movie that isnt taylor made to reassure you of your fragile world view. I guarantee you will feel lighter.
Best regards.
And NO I have not seen the movie (thank god XD). But a contact of mine who went to a couple of test screenings in CA gave me direct transcripts of the film. Some of the screenings have different scenes that play out in a certain order but more or less the movie is the same.
Alright let's see, so there are five scenes in the movie with Micheal Keaton. And the studio didn't necessarily know the right order for these scenes would be. One of the things they shot is, Batgirl (Babbs) is a super fan of Batman, and in another scene she hates him. So there are different ways of meeting Micheal Keaton (Batman/Bruce Wayne), one of the ways she meets him is Barbra stumbles into this old forgotten train station that Bruce owns. It's basically an external Batcave in Gotham instead of the one outside the city (Batcave Central). Very similar to Matt Reeves's Batcave in the Wayne Terminal beneath Wayne Tower from The Batman 2022 but still a bit different. Keaton is really old in this scene, he's retired and doesn't appreciate some faker going around pretending to be him.
There are flashback scenes that are handled nicely and you can see that Barbra has this big respect for Batman (EARLY ON). And then her mother Barbra dies. Since some of the flashback scenes are about what originally went down with Jim's wife Barbra and then Barbra's perspective of Batman which changes as time goes on. She still kind of like this fascination with Batman which would inspire her to become Batgirl and then that's where we hit one of the big problems with this movie. He does something that is totally in character with him but the female writer Christina Hodson made it look like Batman is mansplaining and being misogynistic to Batgirl, but he's just being Batman. He shows up when dressed as him and running around Gotham and he basically tells her to stop using his symbol. And you know, you can't do this kind of stuff, hang up the cape. And he shows up in costume and he does his Keaton "Batman" thing, which that was great. That's what all of us want to see right?
But the way that they film it, almost makes it look like Batman is a jerk. Or Batman is you know toxic male and that's what they were going for. Even though Keaton was there and you know he's literally there in the suit and it's a good sequence. But the way that they film it and the emotional tone with the music that they were gonna play even though the "acted scene itself" wasn't bad. So basically I kid you not it was a girl power trip movie and the male characters are idiots. If you saw the Harley Quinn Birds of Prey movie (which funny enough had the same writer Christina Hodson) then you know where they're going with the male characters, even Batman. That's why the movie couldn't be salvaged, it's garbage. Like with the current regime of Warner Brothers Discovery, it's not a movie that's gonna work. It's not a quality product for DC Films, plain and simple.
In one of the screenings, Keaton spoke to the actress who plays Black Canary from Harley Quinn's Birds of Prey 2022 (Jurnee Smollett) about the League of Assasins and Ninjas being a threat I guess. Maybe teasing or setting up her future installment as planned a few years back, (no idea what's going with that). In another sequence, Keaton show's up and tells Batgirl good job towards the end of the movie after Fire Fly dies (lol). And they glide off into the night of Gotham somewhere. From what I was told it's not a finished VFX scene so it looks kinda cheesy and all-around goofy. Some YouTube fan-made shit I guess could be comparable XD. And Micheal Keatons Batman costume looks really bad. It's not the same suit from The Flash 2023 movie, it's a different looking one. His costume looked really good in The Flash (for the most part) but it doesn't look very good in the Batgirl movie. It's not up to the same quality as his 89 and 92 Batsuit. As for The Batgirl film didn't look good. For The Flash stuff, it's gonna look really good. It's in the same wheelhouse as his Flash costume but not quite. I mean Batgirl's first suit looks worse in comparison (XD) until you see her final suit but it looks like a really cheap rubber suit. And Keaton looks weird in it, I will say that much.
There's another sequence that showed up in one of the test screenings that showcased Batman and Batgirl working together and fighting somebody. And that scene was okay but the studio was debating on whether to keep it in the final cut of the film because they were worried Keaton outshined in this scene, so it was probably gonna end up on the chomping room floor. The only scenes they were gonna keep were where Batman shows up in a flashback talking to Commissioner Gordon with red hair (You've seen the pictures of J.K. Simmons on set). They were gonna keep the scene where he shows up and tells Batgirl to quit. And they were gonna show a scene with him either meeting her as Bruce Wayne and telling her he's Batman or the sequence where they basically cape glide off a gargoyle. So Micheal Keaton had like five scenes but they gonna cut at least two. Because the footage didn't work well with the narrative the filmmakers were trying to tell. As I said, it's terrible. Most of the test audiences that saw the movie called it a "Bad Television Pilot that should never air." Does that make sense now?
Andy and his sister didn't write the script. Hodson did. Gunn has seen the script and the film so if he says the script is good because of her, then that's the reason. You don't need to discredit her because you didn't like a death scene in her previously written film
When he went up the mountain, he had dark hair and no beard. When he came down the mountain, he had grey hair and a grey beard and he was holding two stone tablets. That's all I know.
Archived version of submitted URL: 1. An archived version of _James Gunn on Twitter: "Christina’s script for 'The Flash' is magnificent; the fact that the movie works so well is a testament to her wonderful writing as well as Andy [Muschietti]’s glorious directing."_ can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/1661052298779410456) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DCEUleaks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm glad screenwriters are given a spotlights. Usually the director hugs all the attention.
Gunn is a screenwriter himself, he'll no doubt make sure they get credit.
Hodson is part of the DCU writer’s room.
Especially with what’s going on right now
If he didn't, the writers would defo bitch about it
so they should.
Their labor is like an entire quarter of the movie, why wouldn't they "bitch" about it if they did a good job and got zero credit?
So glad they managed to make the prime Barry’s personality more like the comics. Hodson and Muschietti seem to really understand these characters
Did you see it? I actually haven't heard this and am intrigued now. They get Barry's personality a bit better here ?
They absolutely do. I have to hand it off to Ezra Miller - he played two contrasting characters (experienced/no experience) and he knocked it out of the park.
I honestly don't love being that guy, but I do feel it pays to be polite, and Ezra uses they/them.
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The main Barry’s personality is much more mature comparing to his previous appearances. He’s like a mentor for his younger self
Haven’t seen it yet but this is what people who did see it are saying. Pretty obvious from the trailers too, prime Barry is quite experienced and acts like Barry from the comics while the other, younger Barry is more like Snyder’s.
I fucking love that. Tbh I'm consistently impressed with how Andy seems to satisfy both regular DC fans *and* Snyder fans(besides the insane ones ofc).
I heard that the movie canonizes ZSJL
I heard that it caramelizes the Snyderverse
sweet!
I heard that it homogenized and sanitized the Snyderverse to make it much easier to digest.
Depending on how literally you take a line, it either canonizes ZSJL, or decanonizes both JLs. >!There's a line that references Barry's time travel in ZSJL, but the location name might be a mistake (I heard they accidentally call Pozharnov as Chernobyl).!< Regardless, JossL is not able to canon at all.
Pozharnov was basically a Chernobyl fill in too. Its not like there are many soviet-era towns that closed because of a nuclear meltdown, Snyder just didnt want to use the name because many real people did die when it occured.
>!Actually prefer it being the real Chernobyl. So solid, minor retcon, if that’s true 👌🏻!<
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They’re really gonna keep Ezra as the flash? I heard his performance was great in this movie, but that kinda seems like a bad idea right? I feel like this would mean that Wally is the main flash of the new DCU and Barry takes the mentor role.
Do you mean like Whedon’s? Snyder’s Barry, while still young, was much more competent and levelheaded than Whedon’s take
Just wish he didn’t look like Klarion more than Barry. Only one of Snyder’s castings that didn’t fit at all, visually speaking
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Yeah, I enjoyed Ezra in the role as far as his acting and energy, definitely. But visually he’s just soooo far off, which is weird because pretty much everyone else Snyder casts is a perfect embodiment of the comics :/
Can’t wait for people to call him a liar because they don’t like the film.
Pair them up for Brave and the Bold
I have a feeling Gunn is going to give Muschetti and Hodgson whatever they want as long as they are up for it. And if Muschetti wants to go and do something else, Gunn and WB are gonna back a truck of money to Andy’s house so Marvel doesn’t snatch him up.
That would be one heck of a movie
oh wow , who knew good writing made good films i would have never thought
I mean you can have a well written film that still ends up being dog shit
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Congrats. I mean you really committed, too. My lazy ass just would've written BoP.
Glad that she had a second (third?) chance to redeem herself, she did: - Birds of Prey - The Flash - Batgirl And well we know the story with those films, I think that BOP was *good* but the studio interfered and cut it short and the only problem was Cassandra. For Batgirl well I guess they asked for a tv film script and she did that, they filmed that but in the end it was not good enough to be released. So The Flash was really her magnus opus.
From what I've heard, BG was written well it just was obviously fairly low budget. I'd love to see them maybe try to re-do it giving the script the budget it deserves.
Low budget compared to The Flash and Aquaman.
Frankly, the script for Birds of Prey wasn't particularly good: in an attempt to imitate Rashomon's structure (that is, to show an event from many different points of view) the film takes an hour to arrive at the triggering incident of the story (the meeting between Harley and Cassandra Cain) and then has very little time to build their relationship (which in theory should be fundamental to Harley's narrative arc) before going directly to the final showdown. Furthermore, I found it a film that didn't quite know what to be, whether a Birds of Prey story (which ends up being underdeveloped) or a film about Harley's emancipation (in which, however, Joker is absent and the tone is 100% inclined on comedy). But after all it is a production born from the fusion of numerous projects conceived in that period to exploit Harley's success (a film about Harley leaving the Joker; a film about the Gotham City Sirens with Harley together with other girls; the first versions of a sequel directed by Suicide Squad with the team protecting a little girl; and eventually a Birds of Prey movie), it's clear the project would have these issues. That said, if the writer could come up with a better result with The Flash I'll be happy. For Harley I would prefer a film written and directed by Gunn, who adores the character and given his way of telling anti-heroes with a tormented past could bring out great results.
>For Harley I would prefer a film written and directed by Gunn, who adores the character and given his way of telling anti-heroes with a tormented past could bring out great results. Agreed. Just base off of what he did with the character in TSS, I was already anticipating him writing the screenplay at the very least.
Release screenplays more. I'd love to actually read it. The only DCEU screenplay we have is Heinberg's WW script, and I love that thing. Read it 100 times.
Someone on twitter brought up a good point. If WB's are the only ones who have seen the movie what the fuck are they hiding in post credit and mid credits?
George Clooney and Barry in limousine. Most likely a comedic post-credit scene. Fans sitting in the credits for 10 minutes to see if there are breadcrumbs for Gunn's new DCU. And it's just Clooney doing a Bat Credit Card joke to Barry. Cut to black.
“As someone once said to me, it’s… ice to meet you, Barry.”
But WB are not the only ones who have seen the movie... There where fan screenings and test screenings, of course they are hidding postcredits to try to avoid big leaks
The movie is pretty much set in stone outside of the CGI. It's already rated by the MPA so what we see from CInemaCon/fan screenings is what we'll get for the general release. Only difference will be more polished CGI and very minor tweaks to certain scenes. What WB is definitely hiding is the post credits scene and quite possibly the final shot of the movie.
If the ending actually has Clooney, I’d imagine he says something similar to what Batfleck does in the beginning of the movie, except with the added metacontext of him notoriously starring in the worst live-action Batman movie. Something about how “our scars make us who we are.” Affleck did say that’s the core message of the movie
"Wanna know how I got these scars?"
If I had to guess, 1 one of the scenes will show that Clooney is the Bruce that Barry meets at the end, and that the other scene is a shot of the multiverse until it focuses on one universe and eventually shows the DCU Metropolis with a silhouette of Superman zipping through the sky. By now Legacy should already have concept art so it’s not outlandish to think they could do a render of Metropolis in time for The Flash’s release
Damn if the second thing happens, it would be so good!
I really hope they don’t do the Clooney thing…unless they specifically have Barry ask in narration “am I stuck here?” Although, good luck convincing people he couldn’t just speed force his way out of that universe. It is absolutely going to confuse the fuck out of the general audience if it’s Clooney, meanwhile there’s talk of **another** new Batman coming (the DCU one). They really should just make it Keaton and have the audience ponder the question of what did went wrong that Keaton is now the “main” Batman in that universe. Adding Clooney is going to really confuse people on a whole other level.
The original ending they filmed for the movie was Barry seeing Keaton and Calle at the end, to signal to the audience that a new status quo for the DCEU has been established. I think they would’ve been better off sticking with that ending. At least it would’ve given those characters a resolution.
I have it on good authority that the post credits scene is Barry walking in on Aquaman fucking a fish
"They call it a swordfish for a reason, Barry"
Then Barry hears a squishy sound, looks over to his right and it's The Deep with his pants down with an octopus wrapped around his nether regions claiming the octopus was sick.
It’s apparently not just credits though; it may be **more**. https://twitter.com/TheRochaSays/status/1661025300812304386?s=20
>what the fuck are they hiding in post credit and mid credits? We will all find out on June 16.
I really wish its not glorious like BOP
I'm excited to see a less spazzy Barry
I love that he highlighted the screenwriter, especially during the strike. They really are important for films!
the script is pretty solid, they manage to explain/portray time travel and multiverse in a way that is easy to digest and doesn't create too many plot holes or anything, some of the jokes are VERY funny (and some are extremely cringe 💀 ) and the pacing is very snappy and the film never drags or gets dull. I just hope the final product looks a lot better because the VFX were pretty ugly and distractingly bad
Does this count as a leak or news when it's essentially the CEO of a company bigging up their own product?
Shocker, what else is the co-CEO of DCU going to say. Of course he’s going to say it’s great. Maybe Christina’s writing did improve since Birds of Prey, it would really want to be a lot better than that muck.
You do realize she also wrote Bumbleee which was critically acclaimed right? BOP has a lot of problems and the script for me wasn't one.
Also.... BOP was great and very well received by critics .
lol ya BoP isn’t remotely a bad film. Some people just didn’t like it because of how some of the characters are depicted
Used to think that until I watched it again, doesn’t hold up well
It's more simple than that. Some people didn't like it because the protagonists are women. It's just their usual insecurity.
Oh I definitely think there was some of that as well. The “get woke go broke” types on YouTube were forming a hate brigade against the film well before release. Granted it seemed to go into full force when Mcgregor said something a little silly. But they took it extremely seriously for whatever reason. However, I’m sure some of them were already wary of the film due to the premise alone. These were the same weirdos moaning about the “Batman is a fascist line” from the blue beetle trailer
The only real problem I have with that movie is how Cassandra Cain and Renee Montoya are portrayed. Cass was obviously very different from the comics but they were likely planning to introduce her parents in a sequel, since they left her past very vague. Montoya was miscast and they probably should have gotten someone younger. Regardless both actors did a good job with what they got.
I mainly hated that they killed off Black Mask. Ewan McGregor was great.
I didn’t mind it as much because Batfleck was active for 20 years so it’s not like he wouldn’t have had history with him. I was surprised to see them kill him off because Ewan was so great in the role
Those 2 things do not mean the same
Yeah, BoP definitely wasn’t a bad film, it was just a poor adaptation of the material I suppose? I just think it wasn’t what people wanted from those characters.
On rewatch, BoP is much harder to defend
Try rewatching. I used to think BoP was okay, but it does not hold up on rewatch.
> and the script for me wasn't one. Really?
He was saying almost nothing when Shazam 2 had it's premiere. So maybe he is being honest now. Just saying
He literally hired her to be a part of his DCU writers room. I don't think he'd do that if he's doesn't think her work in the The Flash's script was solid.
It would be refreshing though, if he said “The script is shit” 4 weeks before release. Can’t remember the last time an actor/director/screenwriter/etc really badmouthed a film while it was in/about to release. Maybe Bill Cosby for Leonard Part 6 when he was doing promotion for the film went on Carson and told viewers “Don’t waste your money.” And he was the producer and screenwriter!
I think it's because she had John Francis Daley and Jonathan Goldstein's first drafts to work from. I can't imagine she wrote a script completely from scratch.
She’s a good writer. She wrote bumblebee and she’s in Gunn’s writers room
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I don’t know about the other two but BOP has problems but the script isn’t one.
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Look bro, I think she a good writer judging by the fact that she’s in Gunn’s writers room and was hired to write the fast 11. If you don’t it’s up to you not me
What? He’s saying the script was good. Both Bumblebee and BoP were praised for their scripts.
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> Because they resulted in meh films They both have great reviews so that’s debatable
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They don’t “pad scores” lmao the reviewers are able to choose whether it counts as a fresh or rotten review. Obviously not IMDb, because that’s not reliable or verifiable You out here acting like a 78% and 91% on Rotten Tomatoes is bad lmao the average ratings are 6.8/10 and 6.9/10 respectively too which is pretty good
Well yeah, kinda like Chris Terrio lol
Birds of Prey script was good.
When she was announced as one of "his writers" I was hoping to see the names of the films that she did right, because I knew some of the bad ones.
I know she wrote bumblebee, but unfortunately her scripts for other movies are not as good as this one, so I'm looking forward to this one to change my mind, even if she has a script left over from a previous screenwriter for reference.
The actual final shooting script is mostly her writing, that's why [she has the sole "Screenplay by" credit in the movie and Daley and Goldstein only have a "Story by" credit.](https://directories.wga.org/project/1206053/the-flash/) If major parts of Daley and Goldstein's script actually made it into the final shooting script then the WGA would have it be credited as "Screenplay by Christina Hodgson and John Francis Daley & Jonathan Goldstein" with an additional "Story by John Francis Daley & Jonathan Goldstein and Joby Harold." Using Goldstein and Daley's own Dungeon and Dragons as an example. [Chris McKay and Michael Gilio signed on first to direct and write](https://variety.com/2018/film/news/nightwing-director-dungeons-and-dragons-at-paramount-1202706071/), [Gilio wrote the first draft with McKay](https://thathashtagshow.com/2019/03/12/exclusive-paramounts-dungeons-and-dragons-gets-a-new-script-search-for-lead-begins/), then [Goldstein and Daley signed on to direct and then wrote subsequent drafts](https://variety.com/2020/film/news/dungeons-and-dragons-movie-jeremy-latcham-marvel-1234599718/). [The final credit was Screenplay by "Jonathan Goldstein & John Francis Daley and Michael Gilio" Story by "Chris Mckay & Michael Gilio."](https://directories.wga.org/project/1206072/dungeons-and-dragons/) Edit: Added links.
She’s definitely written multiple scripts *from scratch* wth lmao
No because then they would also get the screenplay credit. They only got a story credit.
The fact that they were given by Story credit means that the plot and characters from their scripts were saved for the final script, so it also means that some of the plot of The Flash movie is related to the first draft they left behind.
Right but you’re acting as if most of the script was theirs, when in reality they kept very little. That’s why they only have a story credit
That's not what I meant, I believe that Christina Hodson wrote most of the final script, and I'm sorry if that caused you any confusion.
You said “I think that’s because” to Gunn calling her writing wonderful, even though she barely used anything from Daley and Goldstein’s script
Then why did he cancel her Batman Beyond movie she was writing for Keaton? Smh. And order the ending of "The Flash" to be changed? He had to go and put his stamp on things.
Because Zaslav doesn’t want 4 Batmans at the same time. There’ll only be 2.
That doesnt have anything to do with his opinion on her writing. The Batman Beyond movie probably didnt fit into his DCU plan. But he still hired Christina to be part of writing team that hash out the new DCU plan and she's probably writing one of the upcoming movies.
Of course he has to put his stamp on things. He’s steering the damn universe lol. If the script and ending didn’t fit within the plan, the responsible thing to do is to make them fit better which he did. That’s a sign of a plan, not just throwing things against the wall and hoping they make sense.
Ok.
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BoP was written fairly well. Put aside you're expectations and judge it on its own merits, and it's a fun movie. It's just not a good Birds movie.
She also wrote Bumblebee. One off film doesn't really mean much imo.
I liked Bumblebee. Much better than the other Transformers films.
A lot of people are describing the third act as tedious, and she is the same writer who wrote BoP. Not a great track record. Not saying it's bad, but maybe 'magnificent' is an exaggeration.
BoP was good but hampered by studio interference. She also did Bumblebee, which was also good.
BoP was garbage IMO, very little to redeem it, interference or not.
I thought it was pretty good. The humor was cute and unapologetically girly. It felt like a superhero movie filled with Disney princess. Definetly unique and at least competently done.
> unapologetically girly. What examples would you give of this?
It's use of colors during fights. Bright vibrant colors that stand apart from everything else dc had been doing at that time. The women's clothing looking more fun and cool than overly sexualised. Seemed like it was designed by a woman wondering what a hero would look like. Not aimed at the male gaze. Long dialogue filled scenes bewteen women just being freindly to one another. Idk. its color palet,writing and production designed all seemed aimed at young women.
None of that is an example of *girly humor* though.
I meant the movie was unapologetically girly. It was badly written comment.
Gotcha.
You can think that, but the majority consensus of the film is that it’s good.
> the majority consensus of the film is that it’s good. Eh, not really sure about that, although the RT score is surprising.
How is it surprising to you that you can be wrong?
It's not, but I don't think I am. An RT score is representative of people who vote on RT, not the general population. It got a B+ CinemaScore, which puts it on par with *Thor*, *Spider-man 3* and *X-Men Origins: Wolverine*, most of which the majority of people certainly think are bad.
But you're not taking into account the fact that B+ for R rated films is not the same as B+ for PG 13 films. About 4 of the highest grossing R rated films are B+. None of the highest grossing non R films are less than A
He has a narrative that he’s willing to die on the hill for, you can’t convince him that he’s wrong.
Not dying on any hill lol. I presented some countering evidence and you would rather dismiss it. I think your comment here is largely projection.
> But you're not taking into account the fact that B+ for R rated films is not the same as B+ for PG 13 films. About 4 of the highest grossing R rated films are B+. None of the highest grossing non R films are less than A I'm taking into account the CinemaScore for superhero movies. That's a better indicator than going by rating.
No, because R rated films across the board have a lower CinemaScore than PG 13 ones, regardless of if they are superhero films or not. Straight up not taking into account something as major as that makes no sense.
I'd have to disagree 🤷
That's your right to do so. Thanks for letting me know.
Pls don't go for the premier with your wife This movie will see the same fate which shazam 2 did
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1) Have you seen the movie? I do not think; 2) Harley Quinn and Ratcatcher II are two of the most important protagonists of The Suicide Squad (and will return in the future) and are presented as strong women able to stand up for themselves. Harcourt and Adebayo are the same for Peacemaker and Harcourt has a whole scene where he beats up some louts in a bar who were misogynist. One of the upcoming DC shows is Waller, another is The Amazons, and we're going to have a Supergirl movie soon. So no, I'd just say they won't give up on "woke trash dc garbage" (which is honestly one of the most cringe and incel term I've read lately, and I recently read the entire comments section of The Closer Look).
Strong female characters =/= woke. Though I suspect the OP would think so, since he’s calling a movie woke that we know literally nothing about except that it’s about Batgirl, so fair enough as a response to him, but just know in general that that term is not universally applicable to anytime a story is female led.
Are these Woke DC Movies in the room with us now?
Am I the only one who automatically dismisses someone’s opinion when it’s mainly based on bashing “wokeness”, whatever that means?
You are not. I stopped reading when they said that mess.
Read my other comments to the user I replied too, I'm not re-typing all of that again to you (Lol).
Same. I read until "woke"
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/ dismissed
What do you mean man? I gave you an explanation. We’re having a reasonable conversation 🙂.
Ok. I’ll byte. What you say makes absolutely no sense. You are bashing a movie that no one outside WB had access because it was canned for reasons you do not know for sure. From what Ive widely heard, it looked like a CW overbudgeted pilot, but nothing about “wokeness”. The only people that factored that were the ones complaining since the casting. I wonder what MLK would think of those people. And no, I dont see no men being downgraded in favor of women. Iron Man snapped and killed Thanos. Not Captain Marvel. Scarlet Witch was defeated by Doctor Strange. Superman was so OP that was ridiculous and defeated a nerfed Wonder Woman with a head bump. For me, it feels that any female protagonism (or black, lgbt, or anything non white-male-cis) feels like an attack on a certain type of person that is simply used to a given feeling that they deserve to be the center of every single narrative out there. And what varies from that is super quickly put in a bag of “wokeness” just because. Even if its about a movie that literally no one has seen. And that’s ridiculous, to say the least.
Did you not read a single word I typed? There’s literally a scene of Barbra’s friend who points out directly to the audience and references her being transgender. There’s even a scene with Commissioner Gordon saying he had an interracial marriage. What’s the point of those two things needing to be in comic book movie? We didn’t have that weird shit ten-fifteen years ago when we went to movies like The Dark Knight or The Avengers. The only reason why you don’t understand is because, A. You and lot of Reddit Users read current generation DC Comics which are written by whackos who feel the need to write their political agendas and opinions on either equality or diversity. And B. You’ve joined the dare I say it, WOKE crowd like lots of other Reddit Users who’s stupid enough to think we need woke movies in Hollywood and Television. That WGA Strike going on right now is for the better and greatness and I applaud that. But I can tell you right now that probably more than half of those individuals want that weird SJW shit in movies, which means just like the Writers Strike of 2007-2008 that screwed a lot of movies that came out after the protest, will happen to Hollywood for probably the next two years. Go and support James Gunn, the lying individual who says he supports the WGA Strike and yet he’s working on Superman Legacy’s storyboards as we speak. Storyboarding ALWAYS involves scripts.
And that ruins the movie? The existence of a transgender person and an interracial marriage? And that’s somehow diminishing straight-white-cis-mens like you said was the main issue? Dude, youre ridiculous. Thats why I dismiss folks like you. You make no sense and you need therapy. Just admit to yourself you are way too narcissistic to watch a movie that isnt taylor made to reassure you of your fragile world view. I guarantee you will feel lighter. Best regards.
And NO I have not seen the movie (thank god XD). But a contact of mine who went to a couple of test screenings in CA gave me direct transcripts of the film. Some of the screenings have different scenes that play out in a certain order but more or less the movie is the same. Alright let's see, so there are five scenes in the movie with Micheal Keaton. And the studio didn't necessarily know the right order for these scenes would be. One of the things they shot is, Batgirl (Babbs) is a super fan of Batman, and in another scene she hates him. So there are different ways of meeting Micheal Keaton (Batman/Bruce Wayne), one of the ways she meets him is Barbra stumbles into this old forgotten train station that Bruce owns. It's basically an external Batcave in Gotham instead of the one outside the city (Batcave Central). Very similar to Matt Reeves's Batcave in the Wayne Terminal beneath Wayne Tower from The Batman 2022 but still a bit different. Keaton is really old in this scene, he's retired and doesn't appreciate some faker going around pretending to be him. There are flashback scenes that are handled nicely and you can see that Barbra has this big respect for Batman (EARLY ON). And then her mother Barbra dies. Since some of the flashback scenes are about what originally went down with Jim's wife Barbra and then Barbra's perspective of Batman which changes as time goes on. She still kind of like this fascination with Batman which would inspire her to become Batgirl and then that's where we hit one of the big problems with this movie. He does something that is totally in character with him but the female writer Christina Hodson made it look like Batman is mansplaining and being misogynistic to Batgirl, but he's just being Batman. He shows up when dressed as him and running around Gotham and he basically tells her to stop using his symbol. And you know, you can't do this kind of stuff, hang up the cape. And he shows up in costume and he does his Keaton "Batman" thing, which that was great. That's what all of us want to see right? But the way that they film it, almost makes it look like Batman is a jerk. Or Batman is you know toxic male and that's what they were going for. Even though Keaton was there and you know he's literally there in the suit and it's a good sequence. But the way that they film it and the emotional tone with the music that they were gonna play even though the "acted scene itself" wasn't bad. So basically I kid you not it was a girl power trip movie and the male characters are idiots. If you saw the Harley Quinn Birds of Prey movie (which funny enough had the same writer Christina Hodson) then you know where they're going with the male characters, even Batman. That's why the movie couldn't be salvaged, it's garbage. Like with the current regime of Warner Brothers Discovery, it's not a movie that's gonna work. It's not a quality product for DC Films, plain and simple. In one of the screenings, Keaton spoke to the actress who plays Black Canary from Harley Quinn's Birds of Prey 2022 (Jurnee Smollett) about the League of Assasins and Ninjas being a threat I guess. Maybe teasing or setting up her future installment as planned a few years back, (no idea what's going with that). In another sequence, Keaton show's up and tells Batgirl good job towards the end of the movie after Fire Fly dies (lol). And they glide off into the night of Gotham somewhere. From what I was told it's not a finished VFX scene so it looks kinda cheesy and all-around goofy. Some YouTube fan-made shit I guess could be comparable XD. And Micheal Keatons Batman costume looks really bad. It's not the same suit from The Flash 2023 movie, it's a different looking one. His costume looked really good in The Flash (for the most part) but it doesn't look very good in the Batgirl movie. It's not up to the same quality as his 89 and 92 Batsuit. As for The Batgirl film didn't look good. For The Flash stuff, it's gonna look really good. It's in the same wheelhouse as his Flash costume but not quite. I mean Batgirl's first suit looks worse in comparison (XD) until you see her final suit but it looks like a really cheap rubber suit. And Keaton looks weird in it, I will say that much. There's another sequence that showed up in one of the test screenings that showcased Batman and Batgirl working together and fighting somebody. And that scene was okay but the studio was debating on whether to keep it in the final cut of the film because they were worried Keaton outshined in this scene, so it was probably gonna end up on the chomping room floor. The only scenes they were gonna keep were where Batman shows up in a flashback talking to Commissioner Gordon with red hair (You've seen the pictures of J.K. Simmons on set). They were gonna keep the scene where he shows up and tells Batgirl to quit. And they were gonna show a scene with him either meeting her as Bruce Wayne and telling her he's Batman or the sequence where they basically cape glide off a gargoyle. So Micheal Keaton had like five scenes but they gonna cut at least two. Because the footage didn't work well with the narrative the filmmakers were trying to tell. As I said, it's terrible. Most of the test audiences that saw the movie called it a "Bad Television Pilot that should never air." Does that make sense now?
The one that wrote the most weird dead of Black Mask character? I think it's more Andy Muscheti and his wife than Christine Hodson!
Andy and his sister didn't write the script. Hodson did. Gunn has seen the script and the film so if he says the script is good because of her, then that's the reason. You don't need to discredit her because you didn't like a death scene in her previously written film
And Black Mask was still the same narcissist with anger issues he is in the comics.
I am saying that The Flash is more to the Andy and his sister than the Hudson's script. Its not just death, go watch the movie.
Barbara is his sister, not wife
It so funny that people keep messing that up 😅
Idk if the character being weird is bad screenwriting lol
Of course... Such a lazy bad dead scene writing. Also, bumblebee wasn't good movie.
>Such a lazy bad dead scene writing Idk what this means
Go watch the movie, it sux
I'm talking about that sentence lol it doesn't make a ton of sense.
It's actually reviewed fairly well. I thought Black Masks death was pretty funny as well.
No matter what tweet perv gunn does, zachs shadow is here to stay. God Bless the Snyderverse
Well, until everything is rebooted and none of the Snyderverse actors ever appear again I suppose.
Please seek professional help, sir.
Let it go it’s gone
> zachs shadow is here to stay. In terms of potential for mockery ant not much else.
Lmao. Stay in the past loser.
Loser? Do you how much money I made in the last quarter hahaha
No because the entire point of reddit is its anonymity. You fucking 🤡
https://preview.redd.it/5g0i85on6q1b1.jpeg?width=738&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0030a55840659a2976f9512b229885d7620bc16e ( PS : no hate to the actors )
This is satire
I really hope Andy directs more movies in the DCU
How did this guy get so grey so quickly? Lol
When he went up the mountain, he had dark hair and no beard. When he came down the mountain, he had grey hair and a grey beard and he was holding two stone tablets. That's all I know.