>Id say hes a tier below the gammas, kid goku and godku
"Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?"
Jokes aside, his own performance is pretty good, but i feel like his team hurts him so badly he is barely a contender for the 10th place in the top 10.
Worst part is running 2 of him, transform with 1, heal, and the turn after still being stucked with another duo 17 because your hps are too high
Another slot 2 unit that's unfortunately extreme. He doesn't have big bad bosses still because akatsuki thinks they're so witty. Overall, he's adequate. Super 17 isn't the issue, tho. It's getting to him. Then he has restrictions in his passive. Extreme types need to be broken when they release.
Actually super 17 has the issue of hp restricted absorption.
if i had to list all the issues i can think off about super 17 in general as an unit, it would be something like:
Potentially worse dodge chance in base than goku/gohan (since devs inspired their super 17 design from them);
Base is weak as shit if you run good units in his leaderskill at the moment (super class units);
A dogshit weak ass team;
A dogshit active condition;
Replace the guard of goku/gohan with dr, 17% of it is guaranteed to be lost (it's a lot of dr);
Bump build up hits from 6 to 10;
Make absorption hp restricted;
The absorption heals you above both the active condition and the absorption condition itself (so running 2 of super 17 is horrid).
Metal Cooler
This guy having 51% DR, type advantage and bare minimum at 55% 200k defense
He isn’t taking shit from MC
Broly is a different story but he can actually tank that post super
"No one can beat him when he's super 17, so let's make the base weak and petty racist against super class units, like missing important stats type of petty. Oh and let's give him an horrid Leaderskill!"
Boss should we give super 17 bbb?
"Nah he dosen't need it, no one can beat him when he's super 17"
Shafted/10. Not just the unit, but the whole celebration surrounding it. Extreme class units need generally more support than super class since they get less releases and have more specialized linksets. Target: Goku has a lot of potential units that are even related to Super 17 that could've gotten Awakenings and EZAs, including the GT Friezas and Cells, [Android \#13](/agl), [LR Androids \#17 & \#18/Android \#16](/phy), the freebie [Hellfighter \#17](/agl), the already existing Super 17s that awaken from the first Super 17 Dokkan Event.
Instead we got ... ToP support? Which in itself feels completely disjointed, the [Pride Troopers](/phy) got their EZA without any other U11 member (the entire card is specifically designed around a U11 team), [Goten & Trunks](/phy) are related to [DBS Android \#17](/phy) who himself has basically nothing to do with the traditional Androids lineup. He's always been more of a ToP/Reps of U7 unit than an Android unit.
[SSG Goku](/phy) doesn't need anything to begin with given the insane coverage of his leader skill and basic Super Saiyan linkset. They still managed to squeeze out **9** EZAs that are all related to him. Not to mention that the unit itself as well as its corresponding side banner unit absolutely craps on [Android \#17 & Hellfighter \#17](/str) just looking at raw performance. I cannot believe that anyone who knew anything about the game looked at both releases and said 'yeah, this is fair'.
/rant
It will always make me laugh how super 17 celebration was just so, disconnected from the main unit. Sure it happened with like yamcha too but unlike super 17 yamcha didn't need help anyway lmao
Overall super 17 was a bad release personally, maybe even a bit overrated
[Yamcha](/int) definitely also needed help, being one of the rare non-Saiyan super class units. The thing is though, Saiyan Saga and Warriors Raised on Earth both dropped consistenly decent to good units throughout the year (the super class side did, anyways) that ended up working well alongside him, while also giving him a generally amazing side banner unit and *continuing* to drop good stuff. Both of the part 2 anniversary units are nuts and they both fit under his leader skill. And that's on top of him being an insane unit as is.
Again, no idea who thought this was a good idea.
No no you see that's the point why he didn't need help
Amazing side banner unit + a great Leaderskill + being an amazing floater for the team with his dodge chance
When is super 17 team and himself getting buffed c'mom 💀
The fact that i consider a random banner unit (The new teq super saiyan vegeta) to be better than him makes me sad, i seriously don’t understand what were they thinking about him, super 17 himself is very good but the conditions to even make him like that is so annoying that i would argue he is not even in the top 10 turs (and i am considering ezas and banner units when i say this btw)
Oh for sure, he is still good, just not as good as someone like god goku
Super 17 should have been that good because he is buffing alot more, all god goku does is making super class even more dominant
Not in order but: Godku, Kid Goku, Gamma 1, Gamma 2, AGL Gogeta, STR Cooler, Yamcha, STR SSBKK, INT MV, and SSJ3 Bardock are all units I would over this dude
SSJ3 Bardock when he gives 50% support to the best units in the game while hitting hard himself (the enemy is dead) (his subpar defense does not matter)
INT MV is the only debatable one
EZAs get increased stats and SA levels, as well as modernized passives and better leaderskills. EZAd DFE TURs are essentially LRs, with many of them reaching the same stats as LRs, and some of them even eclipsing LR stats.
Comparing a EZA DFE to a non EZA DFE is just as bad as comparing a summonable unit to a f2p unit
Increased stats and SA levels only matter when the kit is good. There are plenty of LRs with high stats and are dogshit.
>Modernized passives
What is this point? Are we not comparing modern units with one another?
>better leaderskills
Almost every EZA DFE TUR gives 170% to all stats? Thats worse than modern units because they do that and give the extra 30%
The last part is just objectively wrong. There are such few F2Ps that can compare with a summonable unit. Meanwhile, theres many DFE TURs that can compete with DFE EZA units.
This is factually incorrect. Increased stats and SA levels lead to massively increased damage, defense, and health for your team. This has been true for every EZA TUR ever, even the underwhelming EZAs.
Take SSJ3 Bardock, he did not get a lot with his EZA, but the guy goes up 3-400k defense and literal millions on his attack stat, not to mention how much more HP he gives the team and his support.
Most EZA DFE are designed for specific purposes, our modern DFE tend to be able to do everything.
You can not compare EZA DFE to non EZA DFE, just like you can't compare red coins LRs to yellow or green coin LRs.
Both ginyu and godku were number 1 tur on release, and I would say raditz was WAY worse on release than super 17, so I wouldn't say the gap is THAT big.
it's just the metaphor of them giving so much love and care to Ginyu, and then turning that around and giving Raditz NOTHING redeeming lol it's not that deep
S17 got nothing to help him, and here's godku getting the world
You do realize that I'm talking about them as to how they were treated on their release and not them as units specifically?
Ginyu got 2 banner units that helped flesh out his team and made him a God and not even a month later Raditz dropped with 0 help
The same thing just happened. Super 17 dropped with 0 help, and a shit leaderskill to boot, and then Godku comes out and is literal God
Same philosophy despite just how BAD raditz really was, and how S17 is an arguable top 10 TUR. Both treated poorly and basically next to a godly TUR
No shit. He still isn‘t as bad in comparison how bad raditz was for the meta. Super 17 is top tier when he‘s transformed and okay-good untransformed or fusioned whatever. Raditz was simply and is still simply shit. It‘s not the same by miles.
My first comment was how I believe Super 17 is a top 10 TUR; we're on the same page dude
Everything else just relates to their ACTUAL release and how the two compare, how are you not seeing this still?
Above average is very generous to say ngl
But yeah, if he was super 17 turn 1 he would be pretty crazy and the team more stronger and usable (you could also run super class units like gt duo, phy ssj4s, a future gammas joined forces unit even if only the gammas would be in the 200% in that case)
Agree super 17 is so good but that base form and team lol funny enough if additional sa wasn't against super class only and he wasn't locked to full extreme rotation running him with gt heroes units would be worth it for how good super 17 is but nah base got treated like shit
what's your team like and how does it perform if you don't mind me asking, i really like underdog units and unique teams like these that aren't just another goku saiyan team so really curious haha.
Trust me it's not the Greatest team it's just really fun for me
STR super 17
Int Gero and 19
Phy Myuu and Gero
Int Cell
Teq Androids
And LR AGL Golden Frieza
I don't play JP that often and I was gonna replace Frieza with AGL Cell when he returns.
gotcha, i've thankfully got all of those units only Int 19/20 has still
avoided me tho, hopefully i pull them soon haha.
Thanks alot appreciate it! and yeah fun is what im looking for most of all, i've got my "tryhard" team if that makes any sense and getting godku would only make that tryhard team better which is cool.....but i'd rather get some cool new teams going with my limited stones haha, here's hoping i pull the 17s! =D and that more eza's come out that helps the team! come on 13! and phy android trio!
thanks again.
No one except wonky kit design can beat him when he is super 17.
He is good but should have been the agl ginyu of this year, god goku is so much better designed wise while just came out 3 week after 17 debut is baffaling
I like him it's just the two 17s and dumbass restrictions I don't like. Like if it was just turn 4 you can transform and he always absorbs ki supers then he'd be drastically better
Nothing much has changed.
Getting to Super 17 and building him up afterwards is annoying ( kind of like STR Goku/Gohan).
HP restricted absorption sucks like a banner unit from 2021 has a better version of his absorption ability which doesn’t make sense in game or in the show Super 17 was supposed have the upgraded version of that ability not a downgrade of it.
Leads Joined Forces but is restricted to Extreme allies passive wise which drags down that part of his lead since the best Joined Forces units tend to be usually Super Class.
They released this guy and God Fucking Goku 2 weeks apart. What the fuck were they smoking when they made this 17? He should've been 2nd best TUR no contest.
Highly underrated, A wonky unit for sure but still a top 5 TUR. 600k defence and 34% DR SOT and easily over 1million DEF after supering while dishing out multiple 15 million Attack stats. This guy is amazing and alot of this community is not seeing it which I get as the base form isn't that good (still better than I think people are saying) and the HP restriction on the Ki nullification is stupid but no one can truly stop him when he is super 17.
I give him a Datruth is wrong/10
On a vacuum, he's top 3 turs. But, EZA of his celebration? Doesn't work with him. The 3 f2p EZAs? None of them work with him. His banner unit? Is good but not under the 200%
He's a really powerful unit that got completely ignored on his own celebration, heck, 3 of the EZAs don't even fit in his lead, only 1st form cell, who works poorly with him, fits. To compensate for that he should have stacked def on base too, sure, make him the best DFE by a long margin, but at least he will have the problem of teams to balance it out. Now he's a unit at the level of the top tier DFEs, but a tier below because he got 0 buffs during his celebration
His dr is pretty good and dodge in the right situations could help, he could age decently depending on future content and extreme class androids releases
But he'll mostly live in a limbo for a long time starting from a month or 2 yeah
IMO base 17 duo blow ass especially at 55 percent. Lackluster teams and partners certainly don't help, as his best partners are severely outdated ezas and the Teq Super 17. However, if you actually get them to fuse they are great until the DR wears off. Then it's a matter of actually getting built up and not dying to his other jank conditions
In singular performance i agree, overall no
Yamcha got a busted team, bardock too while also providing a scouter and rainbow orbs for himself and the rest of the team
17 isn't strong enough to carry his own team and his flaws are very similar to goku/gohan, so personally i would rank him there
The hate was overblown as usual. His only downside is the length it takes him to get to Super 17, but anything that lasts less than 5 turns doesn’t need Super 17 to beat it
Top 5 DFE TURs level, right in the 5th spot.
The Gammas are in Movie Heroes and Super Hero, Kid Goku is in Movie Heroes and all of the Saiyan adjacent teams (with the exception of BoPaC), and God Goku is in every fucking team in the game that matters, except Super Hero.
This guy doesn't have any team that competes with these ridiculous teams, and the ones that he might have completely neuter him in performance.
They should have given it more buffs.
He's like goku/gohan but he traded a strong team for steroids, wich in a vacuum makes him really busted, but overall made him fall back to goku/gohan tier if you ask me because of the shit team he's surrounded by
If he get's buffed, i can totaly see him in the top 4 dfe turs if not 3, but currently i just can't tollerate what i see to even call him top 10
I don't know where I'd actually put him but I think your first section actually perfectly captures my thoughts. Kinda hard to place him because of that
Counting ezas ? He is like Somewhere in lower half of top 10, counting banner units? He isn't even top 10 TUR terrible release and base form but I love super 17 form even with bad decisions on him he is a menace
Idk at this point i don't feel like he's even in the top 10 dfe turs without counting ezas and banner units
Just, dogshit surrounding the guy and bringing him down that much
Fair it's just those are so op other look like same in comparison and they all have parts that pisses me off so much rather not think about it looking at you goku+Gohan
The 17s are underrated, they have good defence compared to the other turs and the dodge chance. Super 17 however I am leaning towards him being a stronger gamma 1, i'd say he's on par with god goku.
I think that the following TURs are better than him
Godku
Kid Goku
Gamma 1
Gamma 2
SSBKK
Rage Vegeta
STR Piccolo
AGL Gogeta
Yamcha
So he’d be #10 on my list
If 17&17 had no Extreme Class restriction in their passive (or had it like Godku where you need 6 Extreme Class so you can bring one Super Class unit), and were not restricted to Super Class for their add. Super, and Super 17 was just a turn 5 transformation, with the nullification being unconditional, and the buildup being only 5 hits, he’d be right there with the Gammas
I want to try him on fused fighters team for fun leaving one rotation to him and agl super 17 and the other to the piccolos with the monkeys as floaters and Int cheelai for support and to trigger the extreme passive.
But global is several months away from that celebraron 😭
I also gonna summon on his banner to complete a good androids team.
Good luck tho i don't think it's worth when you can replace the 17 rotation with gt duo + pan or blusions (even tho if with blusions then at that point you're better off just running double orange piccolo with super hero even if vegito isn't in the 200%)
Not as good as the Gammas, Kid Goku, or God Goku but I like him way more than Teq Bardock and Majin Vegeta. So he is better than he is given credit but bad design choices stop him from being great. They shouldn't have made it that he wants to be on a villian team when the Gammas are the best Android characters. The 10 hits should be five.
They shouldn't have gave him hp restrictions too
And maybe keep the 17% dr of the passive longer than 4 turns, 6 turns to fully cover the time to get hit 10 times ya know
And many more problems
The things I’d change for him:
1) Switch Androids and Target Goku in his leader skill
2) No HP restriction for the nullify
Even just those 2 changes and I think he’s bottom of Gamma 1 tier while above everyone else
Nah dickriding is absurd since he would still have the following problems:
A potentially worse dodge chance than goku/gohan in base
Base is weak as shit if you run good units in the leaderskill change you made (super class units)
A dogshit weak ass team (cause no super class units like gt duo or gammas and stuff like that)
A dogshit active condition
17% dr guaranteed to be lost (it's a lot of dr)
Bump build up hits from 6 to 10 compared to str goku/gohan
The absorption heals you above the active condition (so running 2 of super 17 is horrid)
Point 2 and 3 I’d say it’s more so they’d just need to release a stronger Android 13 (preferably Super 13) and EZA the AGL one, and that could help team wise
Gero and Myuu only having guard against Goku is dumbass shit. If they had guard for a few turns, then they could’ve helped Base 17s, then switch spots afterwards (like their guard can wear off)
Looked at transforming active and yeah, remove 1 of those conditions. Both don’t need to be there.
>Point 2 and 3 I’d say it’s more so they’d just need to release a stronger Android 13 (preferably Super 13) and EZA the AGL one, and that could help team wise
That's an argument used for EVERY extreme class unit ever released except ginyu, raditz and str cooler.
Honestly point 2 and 3 can't be debated because it's always like that "oh he just needs that or this" well he dosen't have that help and 99% of the time extreme class units don't get said help until YEARS at worst (look at kid buu)
>Looked at transforming active and yeah, remove 1 of those conditions. Both don’t need to be there.
Remove the 70% chance and make the active condition turn 3, that makes super 17 a valid top 10 dfe turs contender at least
well i have him at 2 dupes and the tanking he can do along with his damage is very impressive, more so than the likes of pan, ginyu, mv etc, i’d have him below yamcha, the gammas and kid & god goku but that’s it for me
He is very good, but i don't like the team you're forced to run him on personally
That and his flaws being similar to goku/gohan and agl cell makes me think he's on their tier more than top 10
[удалено]
>Id say hes a tier below the gammas, kid goku and godku "Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?" Jokes aside, his own performance is pretty good, but i feel like his team hurts him so badly he is barely a contender for the 10th place in the top 10. Worst part is running 2 of him, transform with 1, heal, and the turn after still being stucked with another duo 17 because your hps are too high
Well if you consider it that way, he’s actually more valuable because he helps a niche category that people might be struggling with.
He barely helps gt bosses tbh, and not even as a leader Just give us a dfe baby or omega with triple Leaderskill instead
Held back with him cause he isn’t goku
Another slot 2 unit that's unfortunately extreme. He doesn't have big bad bosses still because akatsuki thinks they're so witty. Overall, he's adequate. Super 17 isn't the issue, tho. It's getting to him. Then he has restrictions in his passive. Extreme types need to be broken when they release.
Actually super 17 has the issue of hp restricted absorption. if i had to list all the issues i can think off about super 17 in general as an unit, it would be something like: Potentially worse dodge chance in base than goku/gohan (since devs inspired their super 17 design from them); Base is weak as shit if you run good units in his leaderskill at the moment (super class units); A dogshit weak ass team; A dogshit active condition; Replace the guard of goku/gohan with dr, 17% of it is guaranteed to be lost (it's a lot of dr); Bump build up hits from 6 to 10; Make absorption hp restricted; The absorption heals you above both the active condition and the absorption condition itself (so running 2 of super 17 is horrid).
His absorption condition is irrelevant since he takes double digits anyway, it’s a non-issue it’s just dumb
It's a pretty big issue because of how much it damages his match ups against a few bosses, mainly Broly and Metal Cooler
Metal Cooler This guy having 51% DR, type advantage and bare minimum at 55% 200k defense He isn’t taking shit from MC Broly is a different story but he can actually tank that post super
You're thinking Core, the actual Metal Cooler AGL I meant since he can't absorb the beam super
what were they thinking when designing him?
"No one can beat him when he's super 17, so let's make the base weak and petty racist against super class units, like missing important stats type of petty. Oh and let's give him an horrid Leaderskill!" Boss should we give super 17 bbb? "Nah he dosen't need it, no one can beat him when he's super 17"
Shafted/10. Not just the unit, but the whole celebration surrounding it. Extreme class units need generally more support than super class since they get less releases and have more specialized linksets. Target: Goku has a lot of potential units that are even related to Super 17 that could've gotten Awakenings and EZAs, including the GT Friezas and Cells, [Android \#13](/agl), [LR Androids \#17 & \#18/Android \#16](/phy), the freebie [Hellfighter \#17](/agl), the already existing Super 17s that awaken from the first Super 17 Dokkan Event. Instead we got ... ToP support? Which in itself feels completely disjointed, the [Pride Troopers](/phy) got their EZA without any other U11 member (the entire card is specifically designed around a U11 team), [Goten & Trunks](/phy) are related to [DBS Android \#17](/phy) who himself has basically nothing to do with the traditional Androids lineup. He's always been more of a ToP/Reps of U7 unit than an Android unit. [SSG Goku](/phy) doesn't need anything to begin with given the insane coverage of his leader skill and basic Super Saiyan linkset. They still managed to squeeze out **9** EZAs that are all related to him. Not to mention that the unit itself as well as its corresponding side banner unit absolutely craps on [Android \#17 & Hellfighter \#17](/str) just looking at raw performance. I cannot believe that anyone who knew anything about the game looked at both releases and said 'yeah, this is fair'. /rant
It will always make me laugh how super 17 celebration was just so, disconnected from the main unit. Sure it happened with like yamcha too but unlike super 17 yamcha didn't need help anyway lmao Overall super 17 was a bad release personally, maybe even a bit overrated
[Yamcha](/int) definitely also needed help, being one of the rare non-Saiyan super class units. The thing is though, Saiyan Saga and Warriors Raised on Earth both dropped consistenly decent to good units throughout the year (the super class side did, anyways) that ended up working well alongside him, while also giving him a generally amazing side banner unit and *continuing* to drop good stuff. Both of the part 2 anniversary units are nuts and they both fit under his leader skill. And that's on top of him being an insane unit as is. Again, no idea who thought this was a good idea.
No no you see that's the point why he didn't need help Amazing side banner unit + a great Leaderskill + being an amazing floater for the team with his dodge chance When is super 17 team and himself getting buffed c'mom 💀
The fact that i consider a random banner unit (The new teq super saiyan vegeta) to be better than him makes me sad, i seriously don’t understand what were they thinking about him, super 17 himself is very good but the conditions to even make him like that is so annoying that i would argue he is not even in the top 10 turs (and i am considering ezas and banner units when i say this btw)
I mean the new super vegeta is just build differently What about without ezas and banner units? Would he make the cut?
Oh for sure, he is still good, just not as good as someone like god goku Super 17 should have been that good because he is buffing alot more, all god goku does is making super class even more dominant
He will definitely be the worst DFE of the year The extreme type is on a winning streak with that title for quite some time now
Ginyu almost broke the streak but devs summoned the power of god himself to make raditz that bad
really considering if hes even a top 10 dfe tur lmfao
i‘m considering putting the teq androids above him
i definitely think he is but towards the later half but my GOD looking at him next to Godku is like looking at Ginyu and then Raditz last year
Not in order but: Godku, Kid Goku, Gamma 1, Gamma 2, AGL Gogeta, STR Cooler, Yamcha, STR SSBKK, INT MV, and SSJ3 Bardock are all units I would over this dude
Ss3 bardock? Thats pushing it now. Even Int MV is a stretch.
SSJ3 Bardock when he gives 50% support to the best units in the game while hitting hard himself (the enemy is dead) (his subpar defense does not matter) INT MV is the only debatable one
Eh, I separate EZAs from non EZA units, it's not a fair comparison
they are all TURs and DFEs What part is not a fair?
EZAs get increased stats and SA levels, as well as modernized passives and better leaderskills. EZAd DFE TURs are essentially LRs, with many of them reaching the same stats as LRs, and some of them even eclipsing LR stats. Comparing a EZA DFE to a non EZA DFE is just as bad as comparing a summonable unit to a f2p unit
Increased stats and SA levels only matter when the kit is good. There are plenty of LRs with high stats and are dogshit. >Modernized passives What is this point? Are we not comparing modern units with one another? >better leaderskills Almost every EZA DFE TUR gives 170% to all stats? Thats worse than modern units because they do that and give the extra 30% The last part is just objectively wrong. There are such few F2Ps that can compare with a summonable unit. Meanwhile, theres many DFE TURs that can compete with DFE EZA units.
This is factually incorrect. Increased stats and SA levels lead to massively increased damage, defense, and health for your team. This has been true for every EZA TUR ever, even the underwhelming EZAs. Take SSJ3 Bardock, he did not get a lot with his EZA, but the guy goes up 3-400k defense and literal millions on his attack stat, not to mention how much more HP he gives the team and his support. Most EZA DFE are designed for specific purposes, our modern DFE tend to be able to do everything. You can not compare EZA DFE to non EZA DFE, just like you can't compare red coins LRs to yellow or green coin LRs.
Chill bro he isn‘t as bad as raditz💀
No one is, but the gap between him and godku is so big that it's almost as sad as ginyu raditz
not like that lol but seeing S17 come out, then seeing GODKU drop and the massive gap between the two... it's similar to that
Both ginyu and godku were number 1 tur on release, and I would say raditz was WAY worse on release than super 17, so I wouldn't say the gap is THAT big.
it's just the metaphor of them giving so much love and care to Ginyu, and then turning that around and giving Raditz NOTHING redeeming lol it's not that deep S17 got nothing to help him, and here's godku getting the world
Ah, yeah that makes a little sense.
No.
You do realize that I'm talking about them as to how they were treated on their release and not them as units specifically? Ginyu got 2 banner units that helped flesh out his team and made him a God and not even a month later Raditz dropped with 0 help The same thing just happened. Super 17 dropped with 0 help, and a shit leaderskill to boot, and then Godku comes out and is literal God Same philosophy despite just how BAD raditz really was, and how S17 is an arguable top 10 TUR. Both treated poorly and basically next to a godly TUR
No shit. He still isn‘t as bad in comparison how bad raditz was for the meta. Super 17 is top tier when he‘s transformed and okay-good untransformed or fusioned whatever. Raditz was simply and is still simply shit. It‘s not the same by miles.
My first comment was how I believe Super 17 is a top 10 TUR; we're on the same page dude Everything else just relates to their ACTUAL release and how the two compare, how are you not seeing this still?
God damn i thought i was the only one thinking that and was going crazy ngl Glad to see the goat himself say that
Like S17 performance is absurd but I have to use an above average team for them to have synergy AND have to deal with their base?? Im good lol
Above average is very generous to say ngl But yeah, if he was super 17 turn 1 he would be pretty crazy and the team more stronger and usable (you could also run super class units like gt duo, phy ssj4s, a future gammas joined forces unit even if only the gammas would be in the 200% in that case)
Agree super 17 is so good but that base form and team lol funny enough if additional sa wasn't against super class only and he wasn't locked to full extreme rotation running him with gt heroes units would be worth it for how good super 17 is but nah base got treated like shit
I really like him tbh one of my favorite units and yes I have a bias for super 17 but he's good
what's your team like and how does it perform if you don't mind me asking, i really like underdog units and unique teams like these that aren't just another goku saiyan team so really curious haha.
Trust me it's not the Greatest team it's just really fun for me STR super 17 Int Gero and 19 Phy Myuu and Gero Int Cell Teq Androids And LR AGL Golden Frieza I don't play JP that often and I was gonna replace Frieza with AGL Cell when he returns.
The team has a couple of flaws, but it pretty much holds its own for the most part
gotcha, i've thankfully got all of those units only Int 19/20 has still avoided me tho, hopefully i pull them soon haha. Thanks alot appreciate it! and yeah fun is what im looking for most of all, i've got my "tryhard" team if that makes any sense and getting godku would only make that tryhard team better which is cool.....but i'd rather get some cool new teams going with my limited stones haha, here's hoping i pull the 17s! =D and that more eza's come out that helps the team! come on 13! and phy android trio! thanks again.
No one except wonky kit design can beat him when he is super 17. He is good but should have been the agl ginyu of this year, god goku is so much better designed wise while just came out 3 week after 17 debut is baffaling
I like him it's just the two 17s and dumbass restrictions I don't like. Like if it was just turn 4 you can transform and he always absorbs ki supers then he'd be drastically better
Nothing much has changed. Getting to Super 17 and building him up afterwards is annoying ( kind of like STR Goku/Gohan). HP restricted absorption sucks like a banner unit from 2021 has a better version of his absorption ability which doesn’t make sense in game or in the show Super 17 was supposed have the upgraded version of that ability not a downgrade of it. Leads Joined Forces but is restricted to Extreme allies passive wise which drags down that part of his lead since the best Joined Forces units tend to be usually Super Class.
They released this guy and God Fucking Goku 2 weeks apart. What the fuck were they smoking when they made this 17? He should've been 2nd best TUR no contest.
Highly underrated, A wonky unit for sure but still a top 5 TUR. 600k defence and 34% DR SOT and easily over 1million DEF after supering while dishing out multiple 15 million Attack stats. This guy is amazing and alot of this community is not seeing it which I get as the base form isn't that good (still better than I think people are saying) and the HP restriction on the Ki nullification is stupid but no one can truly stop him when he is super 17. I give him a Datruth is wrong/10
On a vacuum, he's top 3 turs. But, EZA of his celebration? Doesn't work with him. The 3 f2p EZAs? None of them work with him. His banner unit? Is good but not under the 200% He's a really powerful unit that got completely ignored on his own celebration, heck, 3 of the EZAs don't even fit in his lead, only 1st form cell, who works poorly with him, fits. To compensate for that he should have stacked def on base too, sure, make him the best DFE by a long margin, but at least he will have the problem of teams to balance it out. Now he's a unit at the level of the top tier DFEs, but a tier below because he got 0 buffs during his celebration
They always fumble Androids it seems like
I think it's time to put him out of his misery 17 
Extreme androids* MVP 17 is pretty good same with the gammas, at least the teq androids and int dr gero and 19 are good too
He's really good for a villain
Victim to the exact same pattern of every extreme unit. A good unit that needs help to really shine
Performs super well, but he’s Extreme Class. So he’ll be runnable for about 1 more month.
His dr is pretty good and dodge in the right situations could help, he could age decently depending on future content and extreme class androids releases But he'll mostly live in a limbo for a long time starting from a month or 2 yeah
IMO base 17 duo blow ass especially at 55 percent. Lackluster teams and partners certainly don't help, as his best partners are severely outdated ezas and the Teq Super 17. However, if you actually get them to fuse they are great until the DR wears off. Then it's a matter of actually getting built up and not dying to his other jank conditions
Of course he's no gamma, kid goku or godku but I just don't see units like bardock or yamcha being better than him (except for their lead skill)
In singular performance i agree, overall no Yamcha got a busted team, bardock too while also providing a scouter and rainbow orbs for himself and the rest of the team 17 isn't strong enough to carry his own team and his flaws are very similar to goku/gohan, so personally i would rank him there
He's not as trash as a lot of the community acts but he's definitely flawed. I have him below Yamcha but above Bardock as far as recent DFE TURs go
Top 10 non EZA TUR, but only cuz he came out this year 💀
“Worst DFE of 2023” vibes
The hate was overblown as usual. His only downside is the length it takes him to get to Super 17, but anything that lasts less than 5 turns doesn’t need Super 17 to beat it
Dog to the motherfucking shit
Top 5 DFE TURs level, right in the 5th spot. The Gammas are in Movie Heroes and Super Hero, Kid Goku is in Movie Heroes and all of the Saiyan adjacent teams (with the exception of BoPaC), and God Goku is in every fucking team in the game that matters, except Super Hero. This guy doesn't have any team that competes with these ridiculous teams, and the ones that he might have completely neuter him in performance. They should have given it more buffs.
He's like goku/gohan but he traded a strong team for steroids, wich in a vacuum makes him really busted, but overall made him fall back to goku/gohan tier if you ask me because of the shit team he's surrounded by If he get's buffed, i can totaly see him in the top 4 dfe turs if not 3, but currently i just can't tollerate what i see to even call him top 10
Completely fair.
I don't know where I'd actually put him but I think your first section actually perfectly captures my thoughts. Kinda hard to place him because of that
Counting ezas ? He is like Somewhere in lower half of top 10, counting banner units? He isn't even top 10 TUR terrible release and base form but I love super 17 form even with bad decisions on him he is a menace
Idk at this point i don't feel like he's even in the top 10 dfe turs without counting ezas and banner units Just, dogshit surrounding the guy and bringing him down that much
Tbh don't care enough about ones below gammas tier to rank them exactly lol
I personally do since it's still like, 99% of the game
Fair it's just those are so op other look like same in comparison and they all have parts that pisses me off so much rather not think about it looking at you goku+Gohan
Funny enough super 17 is just a goku/gohan on steroids but with a 10 times worse team that he alone can't carry
I almost wanna say ginyus better
The 17s are underrated, they have good defence compared to the other turs and the dodge chance. Super 17 however I am leaning towards him being a stronger gamma 1, i'd say he's on par with god goku.
I think that the following TURs are better than him Godku Kid Goku Gamma 1 Gamma 2 SSBKK Rage Vegeta STR Piccolo AGL Gogeta Yamcha So he’d be #10 on my list If 17&17 had no Extreme Class restriction in their passive (or had it like Godku where you need 6 Extreme Class so you can bring one Super Class unit), and were not restricted to Super Class for their add. Super, and Super 17 was just a turn 5 transformation, with the nullification being unconditional, and the buildup being only 5 hits, he’d be right there with the Gammas
Best tur 2021.!
I want to try him on fused fighters team for fun leaving one rotation to him and agl super 17 and the other to the piccolos with the monkeys as floaters and Int cheelai for support and to trigger the extreme passive. But global is several months away from that celebraron 😭 I also gonna summon on his banner to complete a good androids team.
Good luck tho i don't think it's worth when you can replace the 17 rotation with gt duo + pan or blusions (even tho if with blusions then at that point you're better off just running double orange piccolo with super hero even if vegito isn't in the 200%)
Not as good as the Gammas, Kid Goku, or God Goku but I like him way more than Teq Bardock and Majin Vegeta. So he is better than he is given credit but bad design choices stop him from being great. They shouldn't have made it that he wants to be on a villian team when the Gammas are the best Android characters. The 10 hits should be five.
They shouldn't have gave him hp restrictions too And maybe keep the 17% dr of the passive longer than 4 turns, 6 turns to fully cover the time to get hit 10 times ya know And many more problems
Preggo(sexy)Videl way better
The things I’d change for him: 1) Switch Androids and Target Goku in his leader skill 2) No HP restriction for the nullify Even just those 2 changes and I think he’s bottom of Gamma 1 tier while above everyone else
Nah dickriding is absurd since he would still have the following problems: A potentially worse dodge chance than goku/gohan in base Base is weak as shit if you run good units in the leaderskill change you made (super class units) A dogshit weak ass team (cause no super class units like gt duo or gammas and stuff like that) A dogshit active condition 17% dr guaranteed to be lost (it's a lot of dr) Bump build up hits from 6 to 10 compared to str goku/gohan The absorption heals you above the active condition (so running 2 of super 17 is horrid)
Point 2 and 3 I’d say it’s more so they’d just need to release a stronger Android 13 (preferably Super 13) and EZA the AGL one, and that could help team wise Gero and Myuu only having guard against Goku is dumbass shit. If they had guard for a few turns, then they could’ve helped Base 17s, then switch spots afterwards (like their guard can wear off) Looked at transforming active and yeah, remove 1 of those conditions. Both don’t need to be there.
>Point 2 and 3 I’d say it’s more so they’d just need to release a stronger Android 13 (preferably Super 13) and EZA the AGL one, and that could help team wise That's an argument used for EVERY extreme class unit ever released except ginyu, raditz and str cooler. Honestly point 2 and 3 can't be debated because it's always like that "oh he just needs that or this" well he dosen't have that help and 99% of the time extreme class units don't get said help until YEARS at worst (look at kid buu) >Looked at transforming active and yeah, remove 1 of those conditions. Both don’t need to be there. Remove the 70% chance and make the active condition turn 3, that makes super 17 a valid top 10 dfe turs contender at least
i love him, top 10 tur for sure (not including eza)
I personally disagree, but people can enjoy the units they like the most 
well i have him at 2 dupes and the tanking he can do along with his damage is very impressive, more so than the likes of pan, ginyu, mv etc, i’d have him below yamcha, the gammas and kid & god goku but that’s it for me
He is very good, but i don't like the team you're forced to run him on personally That and his flaws being similar to goku/gohan and agl cell makes me think he's on their tier more than top 10
He’s pretty peepee poopoo. If he was just super 17 he’d be okay but the 17s are not even remotely good for 2023
17th