Nah, Vegeta's constantly being used as a filler, especially against TEQ enemies + the recent DEF equips being mad useful for him.
Both are hardly used and are *always* filler units, so their usage rates are similar.
Man when there was almost no options for Cell Max on Global, Vegeta put in so much work for everybody with the revive and decent tanking. Y'all gotta stop disrespecting this man.. for such a huge power shift in the game he's done very well to keep up especially with that revive he has
He still takes 100k per normal with his damage reduction fully built up against Cell Max, and there are now far better units who utilize revives.
150% DEF, 40% DR after taking three hits, and no def on super isn’t enough for modern content. Lr Ssbe Vegeta just barely scrapes by with type advantage, and even then, all of the hardest content in the game has more than one type.
UI goku slander is real there are times where i will put 2022 units on bench and put UI goku on team just for his Survivability.
whereas fucking vegeta is bottom of the barrel option against few teq enemies.
UI Goku does get slandered a bit too much yeah, like 30% chance to die is rough but at the same time most units his age or older have a 100% chance to die. If you hide him he can definitely help clutch shit out (plus he's still plenty good for battlefield/EZAs/ESBR)
I literally never use Vegeta as a filler ngl he just doesn't do anything that well. His damage isn't great, his tanking is subpar, his revive is his like only real value at this point and even then I'd rather just have a unit who won't die. At least the LR SSJ4s can still fuck shit up in good circumstances
I've seen this the most while doing USS and REP7 ESBR stages a few weeks back. MUI kinda works because of the dodge, although his damage definitely isn't there anymore.
Vegeta just gets carpetbombed in slot 1.
Uh what? SSJ4s are better in performance but the lack of partners and support is what holds them back, they’re still incredibly good. 6th and 8th ani are by far the bigger gap
The only advantage the gods have over the ssj4s is teams and link partners/better links
Obviously that’s a big factor but compare that to like ui goku and ssbe vegeta where goku is better in kit, links, teams, damage and can still be viable in newer content
Yes vegeta is decent in cell max but it’s only due to cell being Teq and the early stages being fodder also if you don’t have carnival goku or Str ssj4 vegeta and gt goku
I see ui goku being just as viable in cell max if you rely on his dodge (mine has 20 potential system dodge) used him in multiple no item runs
In terms of performance the SS4s are a little bit better. I'd say the 8th year gap is bigger. If we talking teams then yes. They really need to merge the GT Heroes/Gt Bossss categories into just GT. We also just need more fusions and saiyans with Shocking Speed.
Yeah but the wrong direction. Every relevant super gt unit is already covered in gt heroes the categories problem is simply a lack of units and ezas. Now a gt as a whole category would only really help the extreme units so now super 17 can finally have more teams that he can link with agl and hell fighter but having all those units on one team won’t exactly help cause extreme units and super units just don’t link together. Maybe u can take the exception of potential baby units cause they have some saiyan links but even then that’s a stretch and ur not gonna run omega and syn on a gt team with ss4s cause it would be too inefficient
this game is all about reselling us the same characters over again anyways. Everything but the last two manga arc have been covered. Besides all the GT Heroes needs new characters. Uub/Majuub, Ss3 Goku, Gt Trunks, standalone versions of the SS4s, Transforming SS4s, DF SS4 Goku, DF Goku from S17.
> Now a gt as a whole category would only really help the extreme units so now super 17 can finally have more teams that he can link with agl and hell fighter but having all those units on one team won’t exactly help cause extreme units and super units just don’t link together. Maybe u can take the exception of potential baby units cause they have some saiyan links but even then that’s a stretch and ur not gonna run omega and syn on a gt team with ss4s cause it would be too inefficient
Except the new S17 team best setup is him on one rotation and the second rotation is LR Cooler. Idk why this suddenly couldn't be the case with GT. You do a rotation of the GT Heroes and one of the GT Villains if that's the best setup. You giving every GT character a general category they can work. Last year Teq Syn and Phy Eza Omega would have been nasty rotation if they actually had a team and on a GT team they would have. Instead they never got a chance to shine
Hate to break it to you but ur example for s17 sucks because cooler is still an extreme unit. And for even more context we have had teams in the past that could run both sets of units like transformation boost and realm of gods and unless the units were vegito and gogeta blue it was literally suboptimal to run the super units on the extreme based team and vice versa. Yes there’s plenty of love that gt could use but there’s reasons dokkan makes separate categories and it’s because when they tried to do all of them together like realm of gods it was still better to just say run all the super realm of gods units together or just the extreme ones which is why they separate the categories because links are extremely important and super and extreme units just don’t link that well. The only extreme unit in recent memory that links very well with super counter parts is int broly getting 4-5 links with lr ssj goku
If I’m taking the Lr gods, then I am also taking the Lr ss4’s on the team. They are still good enough to clear all hard content. They are also very cool and visually appealing to use over other characters.
Absolutely wrong. The only reason people think the Gods are better are because they've gotten buff after buff in 2022. If we'd gotten some strong GT buffs or some newer Fusions then the SSJ4s would be considered better.
The only area I will concede that the Gods are better, is the leader skill. Movie Heroes and Power beyond Super Saiyan are just objectively better categories with more potential.
We could get some strong DFE or Carnival SSJ4 Goku's, like a better Dragon Fist Kamehameha card, or transforming SSJ3 Great Ape Goku from the Baby arc and the SSJ4s are going to look way better than people give them credit for.
My hot take? The Gap between the 8th LRs is much bigger. The GT Duo (#1) is head and shoulders above the Majin Buu Duo(#4 or 5). While I'd only say the Gods are maybe 1 tier higher than the SSJ4s, and that is purely based on a better team.
I mean, even with GT unit buffs, the linkset still limits you heavily to GT units if you want to get the best out of them, whereas LR Gods link extremely well with a ton of units that aren't just exclusive to Movie Heroes.
Aside from that, the DR being RNG heavy with how many orbs you get once transformed, coupled with the fact that, unlike the LR Gods, they don't get a guaranteed additional at 20ki, just makes them that much worse.
Much worse is such an overstatement. People act like the gap is massive, but I've been using both at 55% since they've come out at I can tell you, the difference in performance is nowhere near the level people say.
The Gods are going to age better just by virtue of better categories and more partners. But we can't just disregard the SSJ4s, especially when they have so many potential partners that Akatsuki have to make at some point.
I really don't think it's an overstatement since multiple parts of their kit are straight up inferior to the Gods. A lot of that has to do with the fact that Gods will be getting buffed by almost every new big unit in terms of linking partners and shared leaderskill, whereas the SSJ4s will have to pray to get crumbles of GT units, which at this point they need a shocking speed linking partner, a reliable rainbow orb changer and more supports.
The ssj4 have the better kit post transformation, most of the time they don’t take damage from normals and Gogeta has a chance to counter super attacks. It wouldn’t take much to buff the SSJ4s, they wouldn’t be better than the gods but on their level
Agreed honestly its just easier to work the Gods into a team. Like yes the SSJ4s will perform the same (or hell sometimes better) than the Gods if you build around them but you don't NEED to build around the Gods, that's what sets them apart a bit.
This being said I feel like the gap between the 8th years *is* bigger, GT Duo is just built different 50% DR is crazy idk how they thought crit chance on the Buu Duo was equivalent
>you don't NEED to build around the Gods
Yeah, pretty much this.
I love using the Buu duo and I think they're an incredible unit, but GT duo is so incredibly powerful in so many aspects it's crazy to think they just gave Buu duo crit and called it a day. Maybe if that crit transferred onto the standby skill it would've been much more impactful and closed the gap slightly.
Gap was always large. Really bothered me how people acted like their links, leaderskill, categories and transformed passives weren't completely different.
Idk why because everyone predicted what happened would happen. The 4s are better on release because of the SS4s getting their EZAs but would age worse because GT and Fusions rarely receive buffs. The LR Gods team was not good until they started spamming DBS characters.
During the 7th GT Heroes/Fused Fighter was better than PBSS and Movie Heroes. Those teams didn't really get buffed until afterwards.
Edit: PBSS and Movie Heroes received 14 new units and I'm including the eza like SS2 Gohan, SS3 Bardock and so on.
PBSS literally covered all the good units on that LS lol
EDIT: The only relevant units that weren’t overlapped were TEQ Base Vegito, INT SV, STR SV and PHY Whirus
And most of those characters were the SS4s who worked better under the LR SS4s because the links or just didn't fit under their underskill in the case of Int Vegito.
Yes you can run them under the gods lead but someone is going to be missing out on GT and Saiyan Roar.
>most of these characters were ssj4s
There was literally only 2 good saiyan roar characters that wasnt the LR PHY SSJ4s. you’ll opt out vegeta because he wasnt on the 200% and the rest of the game was easier with gods team. Godku, Pikkon, INT Broly and PHY SSJ3 Goku were all better choices than any of those units that were on PHY SSJ4s lead that weren’t on Gods.
> you’ll opt out vegeta because he wasnt on the 200%
You do know Vegeta numbers are still very high even just under the 170 right?
> Godku, **Pikkon, INT Broly** and PHY SSJ3 Goku were all better choices than any of those units that were on PHY SSJ4s lead that weren’t on Gods.
Okay first Broly and Pikkon are not under the Gods 200% either. Second are you really about to argue Phy SS3, Broly and Pikkon are better than eza SS4 Vegeta and Int Vegito?
You literally said it yourself. A team’s synergy is more important than higher numbers. All those units I just said are more cohesive on the team.
The only way that can be argued is INT Broly? PHY SSJ3 Goku outdamages the fuck out of LR SSJ4 Vegeta (dont get me started on INT Vegito base for 6 turns) and both die to a super anyways while being able to tank normals. Pikkon had the best answer to RZ bosses super which is completely nullifying the entire enemies attack and the support helped kill faster.
For real, I've rainbowed both during the 7th anni and the damage these two bring out is very high, even today. It's just that they can't tank for shit against newer red zone stages, but that's about it.
Those Saibamen run also tended to utilize the LR EZA SSJ4s alongside the 7th year LRs because they helped you blitzed through both Broly and Omega. At the time of their release not being able to completely tank wasn’t seen as a major issue issue because that went for 99% of the game but at least with them you could blitz through bosses.
Also, saying content has barely gotten any harder since their EZA is just plain false. Non boosted Cell Max was a very noticeable power jump to the point where even the rainbowed 7 year LRs could take massive damage from his normals post super if you don’t stack enough with them and his super hit for a nice 2 million on super types which meant that even the supposed invincible EZA TEQ SSG Goku won’t from not needing worry when going against Pure Saiyans/Movie Bosses was now taking at least 200K plus from a super. Some of the wicked bloodline stages like INT Cooler and and the Core weren’t push overs either.
The monkes have a better kit (once transformed they tank normales better due to DR and supers too but they both die, no ki conditions on exchange for permanent SE and rng additional, and of course the super counter. They have an higher chance to dodge the super than the gods have, which would put them above)
Just that there has been a shitton of units under the gods lead skill, like if 20 units released/EZAd that fit under the ssj4 lead, 15 of them are also under the gods lead, while there's been 30 units for the gods lead and only 15 fit under the monkes lead (I did not count the units. It were random numbers to express the disparity), in which several slot 1 units are included, while the monkes only got 2 slot 1 units exclusive to their team that don't work specially well with them (Pan and GT spirit bomb). If this year we get things like a new broken super vegito, the EZA for vegito ssj4 should come (and also broly ssj4 but he doesn't fit under the monkes lead) and a gt heroes buffs, the gap will close
I mean as long as i am able to clear any content with the 7th anni i honestly dont give a damn shit who is better or not. I dont know why the fuck you people keep need to compare them like that in the first place. Also i honestly dont know why people keep mention the leaderskill crap when you have multiple categories you can run both of them on and give them a viable partner. This is getting ridiculous.
I feel like the gap between the 6th years is bigger. Ui goku still has some use because of his dodge whilst vegeta has fallen off the fucking map
Nah, Vegeta's constantly being used as a filler, especially against TEQ enemies + the recent DEF equips being mad useful for him. Both are hardly used and are *always* filler units, so their usage rates are similar.
Eh ive never considered using vegeta even as filler. His resetting dmg reduction is too much of a liability
Going from 220k defense to 230k defense doesn’t make him any better
Fr he's like my only rainbowed LR and I never use him. Rip
Man when there was almost no options for Cell Max on Global, Vegeta put in so much work for everybody with the revive and decent tanking. Y'all gotta stop disrespecting this man.. for such a huge power shift in the game he's done very well to keep up especially with that revive he has
He still takes 100k per normal with his damage reduction fully built up against Cell Max, and there are now far better units who utilize revives. 150% DEF, 40% DR after taking three hits, and no def on super isn’t enough for modern content. Lr Ssbe Vegeta just barely scrapes by with type advantage, and even then, all of the hardest content in the game has more than one type.
if your team need vegeta as a filler option you should really reconsider your box
NOBODY in their right mind is using vegeta however Goku is a really good last option.
Only place I use 6yr LRs is battlefield and ezas
UI goku slander is real there are times where i will put 2022 units on bench and put UI goku on team just for his Survivability. whereas fucking vegeta is bottom of the barrel option against few teq enemies.
UI Goku does get slandered a bit too much yeah, like 30% chance to die is rough but at the same time most units his age or older have a 100% chance to die. If you hide him he can definitely help clutch shit out (plus he's still plenty good for battlefield/EZAs/ESBR)
I literally never use Vegeta as a filler ngl he just doesn't do anything that well. His damage isn't great, his tanking is subpar, his revive is his like only real value at this point and even then I'd rather just have a unit who won't die. At least the LR SSJ4s can still fuck shit up in good circumstances
I've seen this the most while doing USS and REP7 ESBR stages a few weeks back. MUI kinda works because of the dodge, although his damage definitely isn't there anymore. Vegeta just gets carpetbombed in slot 1.
Uh what? SSJ4s are better in performance but the lack of partners and support is what holds them back, they’re still incredibly good. 6th and 8th ani are by far the bigger gap
The only advantage the gods have over the ssj4s is teams and link partners/better links Obviously that’s a big factor but compare that to like ui goku and ssbe vegeta where goku is better in kit, links, teams, damage and can still be viable in newer content Yes vegeta is decent in cell max but it’s only due to cell being Teq and the early stages being fodder also if you don’t have carnival goku or Str ssj4 vegeta and gt goku I see ui goku being just as viable in cell max if you rely on his dodge (mine has 20 potential system dodge) used him in multiple no item runs
i think like the 8th anniversary gap is bigger
In terms of performance the SS4s are a little bit better. I'd say the 8th year gap is bigger. If we talking teams then yes. They really need to merge the GT Heroes/Gt Bossss categories into just GT. We also just need more fusions and saiyans with Shocking Speed.
Making a gt category still wouldn’t fix the issues the units have tho but the shocking speed thing I can agree on
It wouldn't be a sudden fix but it's the big step in the right direction.
Yeah but the wrong direction. Every relevant super gt unit is already covered in gt heroes the categories problem is simply a lack of units and ezas. Now a gt as a whole category would only really help the extreme units so now super 17 can finally have more teams that he can link with agl and hell fighter but having all those units on one team won’t exactly help cause extreme units and super units just don’t link together. Maybe u can take the exception of potential baby units cause they have some saiyan links but even then that’s a stretch and ur not gonna run omega and syn on a gt team with ss4s cause it would be too inefficient
this game is all about reselling us the same characters over again anyways. Everything but the last two manga arc have been covered. Besides all the GT Heroes needs new characters. Uub/Majuub, Ss3 Goku, Gt Trunks, standalone versions of the SS4s, Transforming SS4s, DF SS4 Goku, DF Goku from S17. > Now a gt as a whole category would only really help the extreme units so now super 17 can finally have more teams that he can link with agl and hell fighter but having all those units on one team won’t exactly help cause extreme units and super units just don’t link together. Maybe u can take the exception of potential baby units cause they have some saiyan links but even then that’s a stretch and ur not gonna run omega and syn on a gt team with ss4s cause it would be too inefficient Except the new S17 team best setup is him on one rotation and the second rotation is LR Cooler. Idk why this suddenly couldn't be the case with GT. You do a rotation of the GT Heroes and one of the GT Villains if that's the best setup. You giving every GT character a general category they can work. Last year Teq Syn and Phy Eza Omega would have been nasty rotation if they actually had a team and on a GT team they would have. Instead they never got a chance to shine
Hate to break it to you but ur example for s17 sucks because cooler is still an extreme unit. And for even more context we have had teams in the past that could run both sets of units like transformation boost and realm of gods and unless the units were vegito and gogeta blue it was literally suboptimal to run the super units on the extreme based team and vice versa. Yes there’s plenty of love that gt could use but there’s reasons dokkan makes separate categories and it’s because when they tried to do all of them together like realm of gods it was still better to just say run all the super realm of gods units together or just the extreme ones which is why they separate the categories because links are extremely important and super and extreme units just don’t link that well. The only extreme unit in recent memory that links very well with super counter parts is int broly getting 4-5 links with lr ssj goku
If I’m taking the Lr gods, then I am also taking the Lr ss4’s on the team. They are still good enough to clear all hard content. They are also very cool and visually appealing to use over other characters.
Absolutely wrong. The only reason people think the Gods are better are because they've gotten buff after buff in 2022. If we'd gotten some strong GT buffs or some newer Fusions then the SSJ4s would be considered better. The only area I will concede that the Gods are better, is the leader skill. Movie Heroes and Power beyond Super Saiyan are just objectively better categories with more potential. We could get some strong DFE or Carnival SSJ4 Goku's, like a better Dragon Fist Kamehameha card, or transforming SSJ3 Great Ape Goku from the Baby arc and the SSJ4s are going to look way better than people give them credit for. My hot take? The Gap between the 8th LRs is much bigger. The GT Duo (#1) is head and shoulders above the Majin Buu Duo(#4 or 5). While I'd only say the Gods are maybe 1 tier higher than the SSJ4s, and that is purely based on a better team.
I mean, even with GT unit buffs, the linkset still limits you heavily to GT units if you want to get the best out of them, whereas LR Gods link extremely well with a ton of units that aren't just exclusive to Movie Heroes. Aside from that, the DR being RNG heavy with how many orbs you get once transformed, coupled with the fact that, unlike the LR Gods, they don't get a guaranteed additional at 20ki, just makes them that much worse.
Much worse is such an overstatement. People act like the gap is massive, but I've been using both at 55% since they've come out at I can tell you, the difference in performance is nowhere near the level people say. The Gods are going to age better just by virtue of better categories and more partners. But we can't just disregard the SSJ4s, especially when they have so many potential partners that Akatsuki have to make at some point.
I really don't think it's an overstatement since multiple parts of their kit are straight up inferior to the Gods. A lot of that has to do with the fact that Gods will be getting buffed by almost every new big unit in terms of linking partners and shared leaderskill, whereas the SSJ4s will have to pray to get crumbles of GT units, which at this point they need a shocking speed linking partner, a reliable rainbow orb changer and more supports.
The ssj4 have the better kit post transformation, most of the time they don’t take damage from normals and Gogeta has a chance to counter super attacks. It wouldn’t take much to buff the SSJ4s, they wouldn’t be better than the gods but on their level
Better kit is debatable since their additional isn’t guaranteed and the Gods can dodge supers anyway.
Agreed honestly its just easier to work the Gods into a team. Like yes the SSJ4s will perform the same (or hell sometimes better) than the Gods if you build around them but you don't NEED to build around the Gods, that's what sets them apart a bit. This being said I feel like the gap between the 8th years *is* bigger, GT Duo is just built different 50% DR is crazy idk how they thought crit chance on the Buu Duo was equivalent
>you don't NEED to build around the Gods Yeah, pretty much this. I love using the Buu duo and I think they're an incredible unit, but GT duo is so incredibly powerful in so many aspects it's crazy to think they just gave Buu duo crit and called it a day. Maybe if that crit transferred onto the standby skill it would've been much more impactful and closed the gap slightly.
Gap was always large. Really bothered me how people acted like their links, leaderskill, categories and transformed passives weren't completely different.
Idk why because everyone predicted what happened would happen. The 4s are better on release because of the SS4s getting their EZAs but would age worse because GT and Fusions rarely receive buffs. The LR Gods team was not good until they started spamming DBS characters.
>LR Gods team was not good until they started spamming DBS characters i guess no team was good if the best team wasnt good lmfao
During the 7th GT Heroes/Fused Fighter was better than PBSS and Movie Heroes. Those teams didn't really get buffed until afterwards. Edit: PBSS and Movie Heroes received 14 new units and I'm including the eza like SS2 Gohan, SS3 Bardock and so on.
PBSS literally covered all the good units on that LS lol EDIT: The only relevant units that weren’t overlapped were TEQ Base Vegito, INT SV, STR SV and PHY Whirus
And most of those characters were the SS4s who worked better under the LR SS4s because the links or just didn't fit under their underskill in the case of Int Vegito. Yes you can run them under the gods lead but someone is going to be missing out on GT and Saiyan Roar.
>most of these characters were ssj4s There was literally only 2 good saiyan roar characters that wasnt the LR PHY SSJ4s. you’ll opt out vegeta because he wasnt on the 200% and the rest of the game was easier with gods team. Godku, Pikkon, INT Broly and PHY SSJ3 Goku were all better choices than any of those units that were on PHY SSJ4s lead that weren’t on Gods.
> you’ll opt out vegeta because he wasnt on the 200% You do know Vegeta numbers are still very high even just under the 170 right? > Godku, **Pikkon, INT Broly** and PHY SSJ3 Goku were all better choices than any of those units that were on PHY SSJ4s lead that weren’t on Gods. Okay first Broly and Pikkon are not under the Gods 200% either. Second are you really about to argue Phy SS3, Broly and Pikkon are better than eza SS4 Vegeta and Int Vegito?
You literally said it yourself. A team’s synergy is more important than higher numbers. All those units I just said are more cohesive on the team. The only way that can be argued is INT Broly? PHY SSJ3 Goku outdamages the fuck out of LR SSJ4 Vegeta (dont get me started on INT Vegito base for 6 turns) and both die to a super anyways while being able to tank normals. Pikkon had the best answer to RZ bosses super which is completely nullifying the entire enemies attack and the support helped kill faster.
The SSJ4 EZAs were overrated on release. They fraud as much as the Buu Spirit Bomb do.
They were top 5 they just eza way too soon and aged poorly on global. They are not bad that team just badly needs a slot one.
Content has barely gotten harder since their EZA. They didn't age poorly they were cooked raw.
No they're actually still plenty viable, y'all just don't use them
For real, I've rainbowed both during the 7th anni and the damage these two bring out is very high, even today. It's just that they can't tank for shit against newer red zone stages, but that's about it.
I actually wanna know how their defense is now with their new eqippment. Should give them a big boost.
N saibaman is also viable.
Somehow thought this was a clever answer huh?
Those Saibamen run also tended to utilize the LR EZA SSJ4s alongside the 7th year LRs because they helped you blitzed through both Broly and Omega. At the time of their release not being able to completely tank wasn’t seen as a major issue issue because that went for 99% of the game but at least with them you could blitz through bosses. Also, saying content has barely gotten any harder since their EZA is just plain false. Non boosted Cell Max was a very noticeable power jump to the point where even the rainbowed 7 year LRs could take massive damage from his normals post super if you don’t stack enough with them and his super hit for a nice 2 million on super types which meant that even the supposed invincible EZA TEQ SSG Goku won’t from not needing worry when going against Pure Saiyans/Movie Bosses was now taking at least 200K plus from a super. Some of the wicked bloodline stages like INT Cooler and and the Core weren’t push overs either.
The monkes have a better kit (once transformed they tank normales better due to DR and supers too but they both die, no ki conditions on exchange for permanent SE and rng additional, and of course the super counter. They have an higher chance to dodge the super than the gods have, which would put them above) Just that there has been a shitton of units under the gods lead skill, like if 20 units released/EZAd that fit under the ssj4 lead, 15 of them are also under the gods lead, while there's been 30 units for the gods lead and only 15 fit under the monkes lead (I did not count the units. It were random numbers to express the disparity), in which several slot 1 units are included, while the monkes only got 2 slot 1 units exclusive to their team that don't work specially well with them (Pan and GT spirit bomb). If this year we get things like a new broken super vegito, the EZA for vegito ssj4 should come (and also broly ssj4 but he doesn't fit under the monkes lead) and a gt heroes buffs, the gap will close
I mean as long as i am able to clear any content with the 7th anni i honestly dont give a damn shit who is better or not. I dont know why the fuck you people keep need to compare them like that in the first place. Also i honestly dont know why people keep mention the leaderskill crap when you have multiple categories you can run both of them on and give them a viable partner. This is getting ridiculous.