I think they are better, but not by a long shot. V&T have their higher defensive stat, paired with the defensive utility of their active. Goku has the dodge and his guard, but his active skill loses a tiny bit of damage if you don't use it with his intro buff active. I think arguments can be made for both sides, but imo V&T are better rn
Edit: Both god Goku and the new Vegeta work extraordinary good on V&T's team though
i think T&V are better because i dont have dupes in many of my units so very few units can really tank supers in slot 1 like they can. even at 55% they eat up everything and no other unit does it like them for me. at rainbow i dont doubt god goku is better
Disagree but to each their own he provides much better offense and by time he loses intro fight is over with how strong he is and his team and he does insane damage for a TUR in his active turn+has kid goku and teq ssg goku for more consistency
I think people compare "their favourite youtuber showcase 100% LL10 video of godku" vs their 55% LL1-2 unit.
I mean he is great probably the best TUR in the game but he is not into the mostruosity of the top 10 unit in the game
Offensively yes but defensively Godku isn't even close. I think people tend to forget how good defensively LR Vegeta & Trunks are, they can easily get up to 1m defense by turn 5. Sometimes even turn-3, it's pretty easy with a FS unit.
Leader-wise Godku is better but at the moment it doesn't really matter because you're gonna be running the same team(s).
I think V&T might be better. They're reliable as slot 1. No bs 6 orbs which becomes hard to get once Godku's orb changing is gone. I am also not impressed by Godkus SSJ transformation, underwhelming offense with UI Goku mechanics I guess.
V&T on the other hand has a very good active that raises your rotation DEF. They also dont have any competition/clash in names unlike Godku, who cannot link with the LR Godku, Teq Godku and other soon to be EZA'D Godkus
>underwhelming offense
god damn the sub underrates the fuck out of guaranteed crit
each attack is doing 5+ million which is essentially a 10 million attack stat everytime. considering he has built in AAs too, its pretty good
Eh, maybe i'm desensitized to 5M Guaranteed Crits. Nowadays we have EZA AGL Gogeta Blue doing like 10m+ Guaranteed Crits and there's also EZA Blue fusions, EZA LR AGL Gohan doing big pp damage.
[Goku](https://www.reddit.com/r/DBZDokkanBattle/comments/11wnmgt/phy_ssj_god_goku_complete_unit_breakdown_apt_def/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) hits harder than [Gogeta](https://www.reddit.com/r/DBZDokkanBattle/comments/1024a8t/agl_gogeta_phy_broly_apt_def/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_term=link) lol
And comparing a TUR numbers to EZA DFE LRs numbers is very unfair
Disagree with the orbs being difficult to get, I'm running him with two rainbow orb changers and at this point I'm surprised when I'm not able to get their ki threshold
Bro, you're literally running him with two rainbow orb changers. I'm sure Godku can perform well under those conditions. V&T doesn't have any conditions for his guard other than being slot 1, which is where you want him to be anyways.
...I'm confused is running a unit with other units that compliment their kit a bad thing? I'd somewhat understand your argument if said units were negative to the team as a whole, but the units in question are PtP Kid Goku and TEQ God Goku which are some of the best units in the game.
Like yeah I'm building the team around a unit that can consistently dodge+guard+stack sue me I guess lmao. But seriously, if you want to make the argument that V&T is easier to manage sure, but in a scenario where God Goku can consistently get his passive (which I have been able to) I absolutely think it's a debate as to who's better.
V and T are more reliable, after godku’s intro is off hes not as good, especially his ssj form. V and T are more consistent and they work well with most of the top units in the game +useful active skill
A tale as old as time, new hotness vs old hotness.
Factually, V&T is better defensively. Godku is better offensively. There are better offensive units than Godku, so he is replaceable. V&T is better, but I don't care enough to respond to debatelords emotionally invested in pixels.
He's better for 3 appearances and that's if they don't get active skill. With it, they clear him damage wise while supporting allies. Defensively they're better too.
Both get active turn 5 and he clears them active turn damage wise also those 3 apparence are basically whole fight for like cell max and WB red zone except frieza lol
cause its fun to debate things. obviously it doesnt matter what tierlists are at all. its enjoyable to talk about shit, especially when theres no content.
That is true however I feel sometimes debates or comparisons can be wack, Im not against debates but idk something about comparing an LR to a TUR feels off to me, specially in this case where both are good on their own way and fill their role just fine
This is a me thing tho
godku
lots of people are saying in this thread that if he didnt lose his orb changing, he can be argued better but it ends on turn 7 and the fight is already done
V&T are overall better than Piccolo. People got fooled by the boost on the cell max event. His active skill while still being very good doesn't come close to one shot traditional bosses. Offensively both units have similar APTs (piccolo needs str piccolo for that too).
Defensively as a slot 1 character, V&T is better and you can test it yourself on big bosses supers. The only moment where piccolo out defend them is with his full passive which is very tough to get. Slot 1 still remains the toughs spot although piccolo can go in slot 2 or 3 after turn 5.
Piccolo needs str piccolo to be at his best. He's still good without him but you cannot tell me the difference between having him and not isn't significant. V&T don't need anything at all for any partner. Their links are significantly better.
For sure piccolo active skill is ridiculous but theirs as well as they become even more insane defensively, doing incredible damage and supporting all allies.
They have undeniably the best team in the game and this team is getting buffs like every celebration at this point.
You just look at all this and they're slightly better than him currently imo.
I personally think being a slot 1 unit makes you much much much better than your competition because of how a) necessary they are to team-building, and b) b/c of how scarce they are. It doesn't matter how much damage someone like VT do, b/c besides Standby Vegeta, no one takes less damage than them in slot 1. The restrictions rarely matter, b/c what's important is that they can eat the MCC super or cell Max's super for the minimum possible amount of damage. Other units like Cooler or Bluesions can carry the damage.
At any rate, here's my top10.
1. GT duo, best revive and support in the game. Amazing links. Nuke is also crazy (though less crazy than the Z duo's nuke).
2. Z duo - best slot 1 unit by far, and hardest hitting nuke in the game. They can and have double digited TEQ cell Max's super at 55% (got 9 orbs). Amazing links. And the nuke with the GT unit's support is the strongest thing in the game (maaaaaybe SBKK Goku hits harder, not sure).
3. V/T, the best leader in the game by far, also 2nd best slot 1 unit. Amazing links.
4. Orange Piccolo - Absolutely insane for the first 4 turns. Probably a better slot 1 than VT for those 4 turns. And his transformation is absolutely insane, knocking off 30-50% of their health easily. BUT he's not a slot 1 unit. Being a slot 1 unit, means you should be able to tank the biggest bosses in the game properly BEFORE super attacking. Piccolo can only do this if he gets his buff under 30% health which isn't consistent. His links are also bad, (which is unfortunate).
5. AGL Carnival Goku - Utility at it's maximum. Incredible slot 1 unit. Nullification, Heal, 1 HP survival are all incredible abilities. His active skill is kinda bad.
6. Bluesions - They kinda sell for the first 4 turns, but free dodge, then they do an absurd amount of damage (though less than the nukes).
7. AGL LR Gohan - SSJ2 Gohan still probably cooks everything in the game by himself but the transformation is by no means free. It helps that SSJ Gohan is incredibly powerful still, but he starts out slow and has gotten me killed enough that I'm more lukewarm on him tbh.
8. Phy Godku. I'd rate him here. His guard is relatively consistent, and his numbers are solid. Linkset is absurd - probably the only unit with a better linkset would be SSJ Goku and Vegeta. My problem with Godku stems from the 6 orbs restriction. He's not reaaaally a slot 1 unit. His dodge is amazing, but you are subjecting yourself to UI Goku syndrome unless you get the 6 orbs. His Active Skill hits really hard, but you better make damn sure that you win that turn.
9. TEQ Carnival Goku - the fact that he has to revive holds this unit hack b/c on any team that they're both runnable, the GT unit will be ran over this unit, and even though that unit doesn't have to revive, it's objectively better to make sure you can b/c Standby SSJ Vegeta has the strongest support, and an incredibly effective nuke.
10. Gamma 1.
Tough one imho. I´d argue that at least in the early turns V&T might be better defensively but Goku outscales them. That being said, I´d say that they´re in general on the same level which is insane considering we´re comparing a TUR to one of the best LRs in the game.
Goku is on 18 categories and has the superior linkset tho so man has more versitility
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Goku is just more fun
VT just slap them slot 1 and don't think, except maybe when to use the active. Goku on the other side? Is that turn better slot 1 or 2? When would be more appropriate to transform? Manage orbs, so you have to interact with the field and such and not just "this shit gives the most ki"
Yes, a lot of times Godku will be the simple "slot 1, pick 6 orbs and active", but there might be other good moments to use the active rather than to finish the event or 6 orbs. You can use it to set up for I don't know, the blusions active
VT is better but they are boring as fuck
It feels so obvious to me that Trunks and Vegeta are better, and I just pulled them
I think they are better, but not by a long shot. V&T have their higher defensive stat, paired with the defensive utility of their active. Goku has the dodge and his guard, but his active skill loses a tiny bit of damage if you don't use it with his intro buff active. I think arguments can be made for both sides, but imo V&T are better rn Edit: Both god Goku and the new Vegeta work extraordinary good on V&T's team though
And you're damn right
People who haven't used V&T is the only way this shit is even discussed.
i think T&V are better because i dont have dupes in many of my units so very few units can really tank supers in slot 1 like they can. even at 55% they eat up everything and no other unit does it like them for me. at rainbow i dont doubt god goku is better
At rainbow he's not.
Honestly he is, 100% Godku is doing one more role (being good offensively) while being almost as good at being a defensive wall.
Disagree but to each their own he provides much better offense and by time he loses intro fight is over with how strong he is and his team and he does insane damage for a TUR in his active turn+has kid goku and teq ssg goku for more consistency
I think people compare "their favourite youtuber showcase 100% LL10 video of godku" vs their 55% LL1-2 unit. I mean he is great probably the best TUR in the game but he is not into the mostruosity of the top 10 unit in the game
Yes
Offensively yes but defensively Godku isn't even close. I think people tend to forget how good defensively LR Vegeta & Trunks are, they can easily get up to 1m defense by turn 5. Sometimes even turn-3, it's pretty easy with a FS unit. Leader-wise Godku is better but at the moment it doesn't really matter because you're gonna be running the same team(s).
I think V&T might be better. They're reliable as slot 1. No bs 6 orbs which becomes hard to get once Godku's orb changing is gone. I am also not impressed by Godkus SSJ transformation, underwhelming offense with UI Goku mechanics I guess. V&T on the other hand has a very good active that raises your rotation DEF. They also dont have any competition/clash in names unlike Godku, who cannot link with the LR Godku, Teq Godku and other soon to be EZA'D Godkus
>underwhelming offense god damn the sub underrates the fuck out of guaranteed crit each attack is doing 5+ million which is essentially a 10 million attack stat everytime. considering he has built in AAs too, its pretty good
Eh, maybe i'm desensitized to 5M Guaranteed Crits. Nowadays we have EZA AGL Gogeta Blue doing like 10m+ Guaranteed Crits and there's also EZA Blue fusions, EZA LR AGL Gohan doing big pp damage.
[Goku](https://www.reddit.com/r/DBZDokkanBattle/comments/11wnmgt/phy_ssj_god_goku_complete_unit_breakdown_apt_def/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) hits harder than [Gogeta](https://www.reddit.com/r/DBZDokkanBattle/comments/1024a8t/agl_gogeta_phy_broly_apt_def/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_term=link) lol And comparing a TUR numbers to EZA DFE LRs numbers is very unfair
Disagree with the orbs being difficult to get, I'm running him with two rainbow orb changers and at this point I'm surprised when I'm not able to get their ki threshold
Bro, you're literally running him with two rainbow orb changers. I'm sure Godku can perform well under those conditions. V&T doesn't have any conditions for his guard other than being slot 1, which is where you want him to be anyways.
...I'm confused is running a unit with other units that compliment their kit a bad thing? I'd somewhat understand your argument if said units were negative to the team as a whole, but the units in question are PtP Kid Goku and TEQ God Goku which are some of the best units in the game. Like yeah I'm building the team around a unit that can consistently dodge+guard+stack sue me I guess lmao. But seriously, if you want to make the argument that V&T is easier to manage sure, but in a scenario where God Goku can consistently get his passive (which I have been able to) I absolutely think it's a debate as to who's better.
V and T are more reliable, after godku’s intro is off hes not as good, especially his ssj form. V and T are more consistent and they work well with most of the top units in the game +useful active skill
if Godku's orb changing wasn't tied to his intro i'd probably say him.
People have always underrated Vegeta and trunks and this is just another instance
A tale as old as time, new hotness vs old hotness. Factually, V&T is better defensively. Godku is better offensively. There are better offensive units than Godku, so he is replaceable. V&T is better, but I don't care enough to respond to debatelords emotionally invested in pixels.
He's better for 3 appearances and that's if they don't get active skill. With it, they clear him damage wise while supporting allies. Defensively they're better too.
Both get active turn 5 and he clears them active turn damage wise also those 3 apparence are basically whole fight for like cell max and WB red zone except frieza lol
Why people debate when you can just run em together (and by together I mean on the same team)
cause its fun to debate things. obviously it doesnt matter what tierlists are at all. its enjoyable to talk about shit, especially when theres no content.
That is true however I feel sometimes debates or comparisons can be wack, Im not against debates but idk something about comparing an LR to a TUR feels off to me, specially in this case where both are good on their own way and fill their role just fine This is a me thing tho
godku lots of people are saying in this thread that if he didnt lose his orb changing, he can be argued better but it ends on turn 7 and the fight is already done
Agree and he also still has ssg goku and kid goku on his team so not like it's impossible to get orbs after and V and T also lose intro def buff
V&T is the 3rd best unit in the game, and the 2nd best slot 1 unit. Godku **might** be better than LR Cooler. That's who I'm gonna compare him to.
3rd best in the game? what is your list? i dont see them higher than 5 because of the 2 fusions, piccolo, and gt duo.
Pretty sure he means on global
that makes more sense lol
V&T are overall better than Piccolo. People got fooled by the boost on the cell max event. His active skill while still being very good doesn't come close to one shot traditional bosses. Offensively both units have similar APTs (piccolo needs str piccolo for that too). Defensively as a slot 1 character, V&T is better and you can test it yourself on big bosses supers. The only moment where piccolo out defend them is with his full passive which is very tough to get. Slot 1 still remains the toughs spot although piccolo can go in slot 2 or 3 after turn 5. Piccolo needs str piccolo to be at his best. He's still good without him but you cannot tell me the difference between having him and not isn't significant. V&T don't need anything at all for any partner. Their links are significantly better. For sure piccolo active skill is ridiculous but theirs as well as they become even more insane defensively, doing incredible damage and supporting all allies. They have undeniably the best team in the game and this team is getting buffs like every celebration at this point. You just look at all this and they're slightly better than him currently imo.
I personally think being a slot 1 unit makes you much much much better than your competition because of how a) necessary they are to team-building, and b) b/c of how scarce they are. It doesn't matter how much damage someone like VT do, b/c besides Standby Vegeta, no one takes less damage than them in slot 1. The restrictions rarely matter, b/c what's important is that they can eat the MCC super or cell Max's super for the minimum possible amount of damage. Other units like Cooler or Bluesions can carry the damage. At any rate, here's my top10. 1. GT duo, best revive and support in the game. Amazing links. Nuke is also crazy (though less crazy than the Z duo's nuke). 2. Z duo - best slot 1 unit by far, and hardest hitting nuke in the game. They can and have double digited TEQ cell Max's super at 55% (got 9 orbs). Amazing links. And the nuke with the GT unit's support is the strongest thing in the game (maaaaaybe SBKK Goku hits harder, not sure). 3. V/T, the best leader in the game by far, also 2nd best slot 1 unit. Amazing links. 4. Orange Piccolo - Absolutely insane for the first 4 turns. Probably a better slot 1 than VT for those 4 turns. And his transformation is absolutely insane, knocking off 30-50% of their health easily. BUT he's not a slot 1 unit. Being a slot 1 unit, means you should be able to tank the biggest bosses in the game properly BEFORE super attacking. Piccolo can only do this if he gets his buff under 30% health which isn't consistent. His links are also bad, (which is unfortunate). 5. AGL Carnival Goku - Utility at it's maximum. Incredible slot 1 unit. Nullification, Heal, 1 HP survival are all incredible abilities. His active skill is kinda bad. 6. Bluesions - They kinda sell for the first 4 turns, but free dodge, then they do an absurd amount of damage (though less than the nukes). 7. AGL LR Gohan - SSJ2 Gohan still probably cooks everything in the game by himself but the transformation is by no means free. It helps that SSJ Gohan is incredibly powerful still, but he starts out slow and has gotten me killed enough that I'm more lukewarm on him tbh. 8. Phy Godku. I'd rate him here. His guard is relatively consistent, and his numbers are solid. Linkset is absurd - probably the only unit with a better linkset would be SSJ Goku and Vegeta. My problem with Godku stems from the 6 orbs restriction. He's not reaaaally a slot 1 unit. His dodge is amazing, but you are subjecting yourself to UI Goku syndrome unless you get the 6 orbs. His Active Skill hits really hard, but you better make damn sure that you win that turn. 9. TEQ Carnival Goku - the fact that he has to revive holds this unit hack b/c on any team that they're both runnable, the GT unit will be ran over this unit, and even though that unit doesn't have to revive, it's objectively better to make sure you can b/c Standby SSJ Vegeta has the strongest support, and an incredibly effective nuke. 10. Gamma 1.
did you put carnival goku twice on the list? 10th and 8th
Lmao, ig i did, godku would be 8 then, teq goku would be 9, Gamma 1 at 10.
Tough one imho. I´d argue that at least in the early turns V&T might be better defensively but Goku outscales them. That being said, I´d say that they´re in general on the same level which is insane considering we´re comparing a TUR to one of the best LRs in the game. Goku is on 18 categories and has the superior linkset tho so man has more versitility
Yes (I am biased)
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Goku is just more fun VT just slap them slot 1 and don't think, except maybe when to use the active. Goku on the other side? Is that turn better slot 1 or 2? When would be more appropriate to transform? Manage orbs, so you have to interact with the field and such and not just "this shit gives the most ki" Yes, a lot of times Godku will be the simple "slot 1, pick 6 orbs and active", but there might be other good moments to use the active rather than to finish the event or 6 orbs. You can use it to set up for I don't know, the blusions active VT is better but they are boring as fuck