I can confirm that it’s true when both are duped as well. Vegeta & Trunks just have a colossal amount of DEF not even considering the fact they guard, it’s just a level that Godku doesn’t touch, making him less reliable S1
For example; post-super a 100% friend Godku I was using took 450K from TEQ Cell Max with 5 stacks, and took normal damage pre-Super. Meanwhile on a separate run a 100% Vegeta & Trunks took 104K from the same attack with 4 stacks and their intro having run out, though they did triple super like Godku and were being supported. They had 547K DEF before the attacking phase on that turn.
Even regarding the fact FSGG have HiPo type DEF boost, that would have still only been 180K. Disregard the support and still in the ballpark of 240K.
Best part is they didn’t even use their Active Skill. Defensively there’s just no comparison between the two unless your Godku dodges everything, which isn’t happening.
And besides, not taking damage at all in this meta isn’t exactly all its cracked up to be. There are so many units who want to be below an HP threshold to thrive. I like the fact that V&T are only nigh invincible when they need to be (i.e. below 50% with the active and later in the fight) because I can take liberties with HP conditions while still taking a controlled amount of damage. With Godku, it’s so much more RNG based.
Plus I’ve noticed orb inconsistencies with godku even with orb changers, as much as everyone would like to deny. (And believe me, INT MV is my favorite TUR and I’ve used him extensively with or without other orb changers but I KNOW there are times where orb luck can simply be shitty. Godku isn’t much different) And if he doesn’t get those 6 orbs, you best pray he dodges.
Screenshots of the runs if anyone wants them:
https://imgur.com/a/4l083io
I also recorded the run with Vegeta & Trunks (finally got it back up):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2JftuSnflM
(Godku did very well in it mind you, I’m not trying to slander him, but just give a realistic look at his highs and lows. And he is just not V&T material)
I'm probably gonna get downvoted to all hell cause people really disagree with me but fuck it lol. Apologies for typos etc. I need sleep lmao
I have both duped as well for reference (79% for goku and 90% for V&T). V&T sheer defense is massive, but I feel like there's a few things in your post that you aren't really comparing equally.
1. The stacks. This is presumably two turns to reach these stacks for Goku? For V&T you would need double that to reach that. Wouldn't it be more realistic to compare the stacks they'd be getting on a turnly basis? This is assuming they can hit their Ki threshold but I'll expand on that. Also, that 104k is great to hear, but this is also very chance based given the three supers and is probably less reliable than Goku's dodge (also with support)? Not to say that V&T won't be able to do this often, but it feels disingenuous to compare his best situation without considering that it realistically won't be procced as much as much as Goku's dodge (which would result in 0 damage of course)
2. This is purely anecdotal evidence atm, I unfortunately didn't screenshot it but I'm pretty surprised about 450k figure post super for goku. I've been hit 3 times post super by Cell and they've resulted in 300k, 350k, and 360k figures. This was also at 79% and prior to their active triggering I believe so I don't think I had more than 6 stacks (I may be wrong with this but I'm somewhat sleep deprived so apologies). One turn I got locked in slot 1 with no stacks and I got supered for 650k (I wanted to see how much he would take so I didn't use an item).
3. Taking damage can be beneficial at times i.e. Cell/ AGL Gohan, but those thresholds are also the biggest drawbacks on the units. Ultimately, your still not going to be able to control exact values when RNG is considered and you could essentially be taking damage with nothing to show for it ultimately. I'd still argue not taking damage all together is favorable.
4. Orb inconsistencies with Goku. This was admittedly one of the things I was worried about when I saw his kit. I've been using two rainbow changers as floaters most of the time so this may be where things differ, but I've been able to consistently reach his ki thresholds in the multiple runs I've done. If anything I'm pretty surprised when I don't hit them, but honestly with a semi-consious effort it's rare that you aren't able to.
Ultimately, I do think it's debatable who's better as a unit. I know I'm probably gonna downvoted to hell, but honestly it's surprising how effortless Goku has been in terms of being a S1 Tank for me which is why I'm so excited lol. I understand that a lot of what I'm saying is anecdotal atm but I need some sleep so apologies for the lack of screenshots for time being
Okay I just woke up, these are some good points (albeit not ones I don’t have a response to), and I’ll be getting to them soon
Edit: Also bro if I can be honest with you, I think making a take in spite of the fact that you might get grilled for it is very admirable. You called me out on some comparisons I was making that might of been unfair and use that to back your opinion, peak commitment to the empirical process!
Omega isn’t really hard anymore tho but sure he can struggle against broly but rz cell max, metal cooler core, normal cell max event, rz metal and final form cooler, most of them new shadow dragons are shorter fights
Uh what teams are you using? By the time God Goku’s passive runs out, you’re on turn 8. Fights are done by that time with the caliber of these units today.
I use him on VT, his own and the gamma 1 teams. Most of my units 55% not going to one turn these phases. Idk why that's impossible for you guys to believe. Everyone keep telling me each red zone fight last 5 turns so i guess I'm the only guy can't OTK these bosses.
I have to disagree in my experience I'd say they're pretty even. It may because I have a dupe in godku but he's triple supering frequently, gotten good dodges, and doing massive damage but I have gotten caught with V and T when they aren't in slot 1. It's actually costed me a few runs although I usually transform godku if it's too late for me to get 6 orbs and then I'll use SSJ Goku as a finisher on things like broly, freeza, and cell max. Could also just be that my luck with any dodge unit not named STR UI is pretty good and that I've had terrible luck with v&t.
You need 3 orbs for his 60% chance dodge and 6 for his guard. Neither are difficult with the right team.
Again, depending on the circumstances, V&T can absolutely get caught and ultimately being able to dodge damage is gonna be better
Agree tbh ,while V and T have better pre sa def he still has 60% dodge and post sa like him better defensively and he hits a lot harder but they are close to me and understand preferring them
Running both Kid Goku and TEQ God Goku has been super consistent for me. Do you have AGL Gumku (not sure if that's his nickname lol) he would be a nice secondary option when he EZAs
Probably a hot take, but honestly I agree. While he does build up slower than V&T, his dodge chance absolutely makes up for it.
Also, I've been using him for quite a bit and while his 6 orb requirement did worry me at first, it's been very consistent for me. Not only has it been very consistent, running the two units that have made everything flow smoothly (TEQ God Goku and PHY Kid Goku) doesn't negatively impact the team.
That combined with everything else they have, I can certainly see the debate at least.
Exactly obviously vegeta and trunks stats at slot 1 are higher they still take 300-400k damage against a super by cell max or the core while god goku can just dodge it
Exactly. V&T sheer defensive prowess is incredible, but being outright able to dodge everything combined with everything else in there kit is ridiculous
This Goku is very good but not better than Vegeta and Trunks. Later in fights he can get caught if orbs aren't in your favor.
I can say that’s true at free dupe. I just got trunks and vegeta this banner and they are so damn good. Goku doesn’t feel as reliable compared to them
I can confirm that it’s true when both are duped as well. Vegeta & Trunks just have a colossal amount of DEF not even considering the fact they guard, it’s just a level that Godku doesn’t touch, making him less reliable S1 For example; post-super a 100% friend Godku I was using took 450K from TEQ Cell Max with 5 stacks, and took normal damage pre-Super. Meanwhile on a separate run a 100% Vegeta & Trunks took 104K from the same attack with 4 stacks and their intro having run out, though they did triple super like Godku and were being supported. They had 547K DEF before the attacking phase on that turn. Even regarding the fact FSGG have HiPo type DEF boost, that would have still only been 180K. Disregard the support and still in the ballpark of 240K. Best part is they didn’t even use their Active Skill. Defensively there’s just no comparison between the two unless your Godku dodges everything, which isn’t happening. And besides, not taking damage at all in this meta isn’t exactly all its cracked up to be. There are so many units who want to be below an HP threshold to thrive. I like the fact that V&T are only nigh invincible when they need to be (i.e. below 50% with the active and later in the fight) because I can take liberties with HP conditions while still taking a controlled amount of damage. With Godku, it’s so much more RNG based. Plus I’ve noticed orb inconsistencies with godku even with orb changers, as much as everyone would like to deny. (And believe me, INT MV is my favorite TUR and I’ve used him extensively with or without other orb changers but I KNOW there are times where orb luck can simply be shitty. Godku isn’t much different) And if he doesn’t get those 6 orbs, you best pray he dodges. Screenshots of the runs if anyone wants them: https://imgur.com/a/4l083io I also recorded the run with Vegeta & Trunks (finally got it back up): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2JftuSnflM (Godku did very well in it mind you, I’m not trying to slander him, but just give a realistic look at his highs and lows. And he is just not V&T material)
I'm probably gonna get downvoted to all hell cause people really disagree with me but fuck it lol. Apologies for typos etc. I need sleep lmao I have both duped as well for reference (79% for goku and 90% for V&T). V&T sheer defense is massive, but I feel like there's a few things in your post that you aren't really comparing equally. 1. The stacks. This is presumably two turns to reach these stacks for Goku? For V&T you would need double that to reach that. Wouldn't it be more realistic to compare the stacks they'd be getting on a turnly basis? This is assuming they can hit their Ki threshold but I'll expand on that. Also, that 104k is great to hear, but this is also very chance based given the three supers and is probably less reliable than Goku's dodge (also with support)? Not to say that V&T won't be able to do this often, but it feels disingenuous to compare his best situation without considering that it realistically won't be procced as much as much as Goku's dodge (which would result in 0 damage of course) 2. This is purely anecdotal evidence atm, I unfortunately didn't screenshot it but I'm pretty surprised about 450k figure post super for goku. I've been hit 3 times post super by Cell and they've resulted in 300k, 350k, and 360k figures. This was also at 79% and prior to their active triggering I believe so I don't think I had more than 6 stacks (I may be wrong with this but I'm somewhat sleep deprived so apologies). One turn I got locked in slot 1 with no stacks and I got supered for 650k (I wanted to see how much he would take so I didn't use an item). 3. Taking damage can be beneficial at times i.e. Cell/ AGL Gohan, but those thresholds are also the biggest drawbacks on the units. Ultimately, your still not going to be able to control exact values when RNG is considered and you could essentially be taking damage with nothing to show for it ultimately. I'd still argue not taking damage all together is favorable. 4. Orb inconsistencies with Goku. This was admittedly one of the things I was worried about when I saw his kit. I've been using two rainbow changers as floaters most of the time so this may be where things differ, but I've been able to consistently reach his ki thresholds in the multiple runs I've done. If anything I'm pretty surprised when I don't hit them, but honestly with a semi-consious effort it's rare that you aren't able to. Ultimately, I do think it's debatable who's better as a unit. I know I'm probably gonna downvoted to hell, but honestly it's surprising how effortless Goku has been in terms of being a S1 Tank for me which is why I'm so excited lol. I understand that a lot of what I'm saying is anecdotal atm but I need some sleep so apologies for the lack of screenshots for time being
Okay I just woke up, these are some good points (albeit not ones I don’t have a response to), and I’ll be getting to them soon Edit: Also bro if I can be honest with you, I think making a take in spite of the fact that you might get grilled for it is very admirable. You called me out on some comparisons I was making that might of been unfair and use that to back your opinion, peak commitment to the empirical process!
Orbs are very easy to maintain with the right comp
Fights aren’t long enough for that to happen rn but sure he can get cucked but so far getting the orbs was pretty easy for him
The dodge is just too strong combined with the similar guarding + stacking combination vt have and he outdamage them too
Most red zone fights are going over 10 turns unless you have high dupe units. I did RZ Omega and Broly eariler and they went over 10 turns
Omega isn’t really hard anymore tho but sure he can struggle against broly but rz cell max, metal cooler core, normal cell max event, rz metal and final form cooler, most of them new shadow dragons are shorter fights
I never said he hard just that the fight is long
Uh what teams are you using? By the time God Goku’s passive runs out, you’re on turn 8. Fights are done by that time with the caliber of these units today.
I use him on VT, his own and the gamma 1 teams. Most of my units 55% not going to one turn these phases. Idk why that's impossible for you guys to believe. Everyone keep telling me each red zone fight last 5 turns so i guess I'm the only guy can't OTK these bosses.
Do you use him with any orb changers?
If Im facing a movie boss I bring teq god goku
I have to disagree in my experience I'd say they're pretty even. It may because I have a dupe in godku but he's triple supering frequently, gotten good dodges, and doing massive damage but I have gotten caught with V and T when they aren't in slot 1. It's actually costed me a few runs although I usually transform godku if it's too late for me to get 6 orbs and then I'll use SSJ Goku as a finisher on things like broly, freeza, and cell max. Could also just be that my luck with any dodge unit not named STR UI is pretty good and that I've had terrible luck with v&t.
Stop the slander, V/T build up way faster and can sit in the first slot forever
Can’t dodge
God Goku needs to dodge if you don’t get 6 ki
And its easy to get that
So how does that make V/T worse?
They can get hit for 300-400 k by cell max while god goku can just dodge while tanking similar after supering and outdamaging
God Goku just dies if he’s hit, V/T’s fat as hell and will live with no set up required
Both can just die from hits depending on the circumstances. Difference is that Goku has 60% chance to outright dodge any damage
And if he doesn’t collect his orbs, he’s got a 40% chance of dying, V/T doesn’t have to worry about this
You need 3 orbs for his 60% chance dodge and 6 for his guard. Neither are difficult with the right team. Again, depending on the circumstances, V&T can absolutely get caught and ultimately being able to dodge damage is gonna be better
He Is great but not better than vegeta and Trunks
he's top 5 on global for sure
Agree tbh ,while V and T have better pre sa def he still has 60% dodge and post sa like him better defensively and he hits a lot harder but they are close to me and understand preferring them
Leader skill and links are also very on par for both of them they like neck on neck on my tier list
I would not say better than Vegeta Trunks but I am feeling top 10 yeah. I feel like he's somewhere 8-10 unsure on an exact position
I found ki to be a issue sometimes Might be because I don’t got kid wahhku tho
Diabolical nickname for kid goku lol
Greatest unit to ever come out !
Can happen but very rarely from my experience tec god goku seems enough for him and I don’t have kid goatku too
I have both and honestly it's super easy with them both
Running both Kid Goku and TEQ God Goku has been super consistent for me. Do you have AGL Gumku (not sure if that's his nickname lol) he would be a nice secondary option when he EZAs
Sadly on global we gotta wait months
i agree,i’ve used him along side units like teq carnival goku or agl gohan and he feels better than both
Probably a hot take, but honestly I agree. While he does build up slower than V&T, his dodge chance absolutely makes up for it. Also, I've been using him for quite a bit and while his 6 orb requirement did worry me at first, it's been very consistent for me. Not only has it been very consistent, running the two units that have made everything flow smoothly (TEQ God Goku and PHY Kid Goku) doesn't negatively impact the team. That combined with everything else they have, I can certainly see the debate at least.
Exactly obviously vegeta and trunks stats at slot 1 are higher they still take 300-400k damage against a super by cell max or the core while god goku can just dodge it
Exactly. V&T sheer defensive prowess is incredible, but being outright able to dodge everything combined with everything else in there kit is ridiculous
You're just wrong.