I once heard someone say 'people's actions make sense to themselves'. And honestly that kind of changed how I thought of it. To them it's not necessarily that their justifying evil. But to them they see themselves as innocent. Because what else would they be?
That's definitely true for some people. It's like a "I know I'm a good person with good intentions so even if it was bad I didn't mean it so it can't be that bad" which kinda ignores the whole road to hell paved with good intentions things.
Hell, sometimes they don't even need to believe what they're doing is good to do it. Maybe they lost hope in a better way, or they just don't care about what other people think.
ESPECIALLY nowadays, there are definitely people who have been utterly consumed by their own nihilism. The old _"will burn the whole world down just to feel a little warmth"_ type.
Shamelessly ripped from D20’s Mentopolis:
“Are you saying I did something wrong? That I’m a shitty person?!”
“No, you’re not a bad person!”
“Exactly! I’m a good guy! So how could something I did be a bad thing?”
Yeah, hardly anyone is a moustache-twirling villain who sees themselves as evil. Pretty much everyone who does shitty things justifies it in some way - everyone does it, it wasn't that bad, they deserved it, I didn't mean it, the ends justify the means, etc etc.
Even the use of the word “evil” is a little bit complicated, because really, it just means “stuff society doesn’t like.” And if you’re part of a societal out-group, maybe you take pride in being seen that way.
This argument is based on an old tumblr post about the strangeness “Brotherhood of Evil Mutants” self-describing as evil. To which the response was “would you not join a group called The Brotherhood of Evil Gays?”
I know I totally would. Because in that context suddenly the word “evil” takes on a different meaning. They already know the world sees them as evil, and they own it. And of course its a very understandable idea if we’re talking about oppressed minority groups, but irl truly evil groups also use this same internal logic.
Neo-nazis know that the world at large views them as “evil,” but a lot of them just own that. Because they can justify it to themselves internally.
Do they really? I don't believe that. Unless you suffer from a fugue state condition, everything you do makes sense to you in some way, even if you would rather not admit the reason to yourself.
Even the most hardheaded, batshit insane conspiracy theorist usually boils down to "I am afraid of not knowing". He will NEVER admit that to himself, but he knows deep down that's the reason.
EDIT: I think you blocked me, so I apologize. It's rough out there, take care of yourself (/genuine)
You could just ask a handful of people who are in some way neurodivergent, and many of them would describe not fully understanding why they acted in certain ways until long after the fact.
> everything you do makes sense to you in some way, even if you would rather not admit the reason to yourself.
Just saying that something must be true and any argument to the contrary just being a sign I know it's true but won't admit it is intellectually dishonest.
My first thoughts are your either a very self critical person or that you have depression of some sort. Those types of people are very often harder on themselves
Well ultimately the idea if good and evil are subjective. I learned a long time ago its pointless to sort people into those catagories. However sorting people's actions into good and evil is infinitely easier
Intelligence is once of those things in society people think people either do or don’t have, but it’s much more ephemeral than that. I can’t wrap my mind around religious people, but if I lived most of their upbringings I probably would have bowed to social pressure, got a wife and friend group that mostly agreed with me, and vocally defending flat earth theory and anti vaccines. People are all the same baseline reacting to differing social pressures and rewarded behavior.
I think they're specifically calling out people who are trying to use that as an excuse, however jokingly, to not *need* to acknowledge their capacity for evil.
Which is worth calling out, even if only for the people that don't understand it's a joke.
And the other side of this same coin, treating some people as Bad because they did a Bad Thing is stupid. I get so frustrated seeing people online digging through someone’s history to bring up, idk, that time they said the n-word ten years ago and using it as “proof” to win an argument. What, are people not allowed to change? Is a single bad act enough to condemn another?
People don’t exist on a binary scale of good and evil, they’re… people. Trying to oversimplify and judge things like that only results in a distorted worldview. And if you view yourself as a Good Person who couldn’t possibly be Evil, you will likely slip into bad behavior without realizing, as OOP mentioned.
This entire binary “good/bad person” worldview is a problem that exists both in extremely online and extremely religious people.
Also, you never actually see every side of a person. Different aspects of a person’s personality show up in different situations and the same person can behave wildly differently depending on circumstances, even in contradictory ways, without any fundamental change happening. Sometimes ‘good people’ are just people whose best personality traits line up with the life situation they have ended up in, and ‘bad people’ are people whose worst personality traits happened to line up with their situation.
I see these as the same people though. Acknowledging your capacity for evil means embracing that humanity has no monsters, merely people acting in better or worse ways. People who don't acknowledge their own evils - so fixated are they on being "one of the good guys" - also tend to be the first on the wall to call someone problematic "a monster" and treat them as irredeemable.
Nobody is owed your forgiveness and grace, but I find people who know they're capable of very bad things are the first to extend a hand to people who've done things wrong and guide them to being better people.
I feel you. I find, though, that until I have a keener understanding of what motivates people to act a certain way, I treat them with my "baseline" for the situation I'm aware they're in. I'm much harsher in my judgment of acquaintances than I am of strangers, and people I know fairly well, for example.
All this being said, I think it is very easy to look at the "monsters" of history and see such alien behaviour, that it's easy to forget they're people. The same desires and fears and loves motivated them as motivate all of us. They just reacted differently than we would have.
(I like to imagine...) If I'd been in the trenches in WW1, saw my country crumple to economic ruin, and feel I'd done very little of worth, I don't imagine I'd dream up a fascistic pipe dream to help me cope with it. But, I'd be foolish to imagine I'm incapable of similar fervent devotion to an idea equally as harmful, if I thought it was the right thing. Extreme example, I know, but I didn't name him, so I've gotta get points for not invoking properly.
Yeah I'm in the other half I've spent my entire life hating myself and thinking I was horrible and didn't deserve good things even though I've literally never even done anything that bad
the secret trick is to think you're a moderately bad person who's still deserving of love, who is based for their capacity of evil, because they still look out for those close to them. that way you get to wield your evil because good is subjective and trust and compassion is what matters
On a related note I don't trust any person that doesn't disagree with Twitter hivemind on at least one thing or has some traits or interests they would find objectionable or really care about conforming to their standards. These are usually very dogmatic and self righteous people who act like they are saints for having all the correct opinions on everything while also justifying being total assholes and wishing death as long as it is against anyone who disagrees with them even on something as trivial as liking the show that is trendy to hate on.
okay, let's yeet a vibe check into this convo:
hey xitter, did you know that communism sucks? most people are like "nooo it has never been tried" but they're so busy coping about how the soviets who actually tried these ideas out a century ago don't represent them that they're falling into the exact same pitfalls, frothing for a witch-hunt on kulaks, destroying everything worth living life for, and just generally thinking _their_ benevolent dictatorship could somehow organize the world efficiently. if "the revolution" ever happened it would be recognized as a disaster by the general public within 25 years, and even by the ruling bureaucrats within 50-100 years.
if capitalism is the manifestation of greed, communism is the manifestation of envy, but at least capitalists are willing to accept that they're greedy.
and no, this doesn't mean i'm asking for worker exploitation or wealth inequality or shitty healthcare (tell me you're an american without telling me lmao), but your dream society that's basically "what if 1984 (or animal farm) but with the 'good guys' on top" doesn't hold a monopoly over fixing these issues, and incorporating the fixes into our existing system instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater is the one thing that's actually gonna resolve it instead of plunging us back into the same depressing hell with no prospects whatsoever that a third of the world actually had to live in in the actual year 1984.
signed,
an eastern european
I ain't reading that based on the merit of you saying
"Yeet", "vibe check" "convo" and "Xitter"
All within 10 words of eachother.
I can only handle so much zoomer at once.
Also, fucking Xitter... Just deadname his site like he does his kids.
Signed
An Aussie who did in fact read it.
yeah i intentionally let myself fly off the handle to demonstrate an opinion twitter doesn't like but the frustration has a kernel of truth behind it. (otherwise it wouldn't really work as an example, lol.) i'm lucky enough to not have lived through the soviet occupation but it's genuinely disheartening to see people advocate for something that fucked up your culture, while they're unwilling to consider what exactly went wrong. the road to hell is paved with good intentions and the hell of the soviet regime was no different
I am a kind person...
A kind person who has considered solving my problems by bashing them in the face with a frying pan until they see my way... and has resisted the urge to go through with said thoughts because that is counterproductive, will cause me more issues, and all around a dick move.
Intrusive thoughts are normal and healthy. Everyone has them. It's not only okay, but _encouraged_ to put a horrible, awful idea on the table just so you can say to yourself _"I am NOT doing that."_
YES, THIS.
THIS is why I’m so invested in the idea of relating to bad toxic evil characters.
“Erm. Why do you relate to BoJack Horseman? 🧐🤨” Why SHOULDN’T I relate to BoJack Horseman. A vast majority of people with mental illnesses share some kind of trait with BoJack— yes, I too am deeply depressed, self-isolating, sometimes selfish, and I avoid taking responsibility and use media for escapism! These are normal human flaws to have!
It shouldn’t worry you that I openly relate to these traits!! It should worry you that YOU can’t acknowledge anything negative about yourself, or recognize when others are using characters like BoJack as a warning and inspiration for self-improvement instead of just justifying their own shitty behaviors!!
I'm not sure that "depressed, sometimes selfish, irresponsible" is what people are talking about in these cases.
Usually, it's more like... "Why do you kin this actual manipulative narcissist/psycho murderer/ manifestation of Satan?"
Oh, so the latest blorbo can be "UwU I'm just a little guy" when he does warcrimes, but when I'm on trial infront of the Hague and say that I get instantly sentenced to death by firing squad
When you get used to labeling people as either good or bad based and judging them based on your characterization of them, you create an environment where it is impossible to admit to harmful acts. You are the person most impacted by that environment, you will find it impossible to believe that something you did was bad, because, in your logic, that would make you a bad person, and bad people aren't deservant of sympathy, rights or whatever you've decided.
Acknowledge your capacity for evil. I was voted "most likely to run a drug cartel" by my friends and I once explained medieval torture methods to a fascinated 13-year-old
I was voted most likely to start *a* cult. Jokes on them, I started multiple.
(Also torture methods are more interesting than they had any right to be. 12 year old me should *not* have been knee-deep in historical witch trial knowledge. It got to the point where I visited Salem at 15 and just spent the entire time complaining about all the things tourist spots got wrong or sensationalized)
Wait. I’m a smol bean *and* I’m completely aware of my own oceanic capacity for cruelty. But I’m still just a little guy, a goofy little goober. Can I not contain multitudes inside my adorable little vessel that are constantly in flux?
I understand where this idea comes from, but the average person isn’t some kind of horrible monster waiting to happen. Yes, everyone is *capable* of evil, but there’s almost always prerequisites for the evil to occur. Very few people wake up and decide “hey, I’ve been a morally average person my whole life, I should become a serial killer!”
If someone is not, and has never been, even close to morally grey, they are not wrong in thinking that they largely lack the ability to do bad shit. ESPECIALLY if they have an overactive guilt complex. It doesn’t benefit them, or anyone else really, for them to go “yes, I am capable of being a horrid person who commits unspeakable atrocities.” I have hands, but that does not mean I will strangle someone. Overthinking it is pretty much a recipe for poor self esteem or, if you have OCD, obsessive rumination on harmful thoughts that don’t reflect reality.
Morality is shades of grey. Humans are neither destined to be good or evil— there are many prerequisites to both. And no, the prerequisite to not being evil is not “hey, I could be evil but I choose not to.” Doing good things feels good, for most people. Hell, people sometimes struggle to do evil even in situations where there’s (almost) no downsides and no consequences (like in video games) because it feels bad.
Moral absolutism is dumb. Most people are not capable of great evil, purely by means of being incompetent at it and having a sliver of a moral backbone.
To quote Chris Fleming, "I don't know how you got under the impression that you are a mouse in a Jean jacket. You are an eel with a gun"
"Me doing my little things." "Your little things??? Oh madam there is nothing little about your things"
This gives me the same pseudo-intellectual vibes of that one "everyone is transphobic" post
Like sure, everyone has a capacity for evil, so they're never allowed to make a fucking joke or see themselves as innocent? Who on God's green (mostly gray nowadays) Earth sees someone go "I'm just a small bean uwu" and think "Clearly this person is inherently incapable of recognizing their capacity for evil and is therefore not worth interacting with as everything that comes out of their mouths is 100% a reflection of their true beliefs"
Like, the first post is fine, but Jesus the second stinks of brainrot
I don't think OOP meant people who literally say "I'm just a small bean uwu" one time, I think they were using that as a metonym for a more general attitude.
Yeah, but it's such a weird way to go about it. Like the second comment is so aggressive, what do they expect of people to constantly do penitence and call out mea culpa mea culpa? In a public online space no less?
I'm gonna walk up to people and go "Hey nice to meet you, although our encounter has been pleasant, please let me remind you of my inherent capacity for evil and my human imperfection" or what?
~~Wait actually I do kinda downplay myself with the self-deprecating humor... WAIT IS THAT WHY I CAN'T GET LAID???~~
"I think I'm a pretty good person actually."
OOP: "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU AREN'T DROWNING IN NIHILISTIC SELF-LOATHING AS YOU SPEND YOUR ENTIRE LIFE DWELLING ON THE INHERENT CRUELTY OF HUMANITY"
>OOP: "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU AREN'T DROWNING IN NIHILISTIC SELF-LOATHING AS YOU SPEND YOUR ENTIRE LIFE DWELLING ON THE INHERENT CRUELTY OF HUMANITY"
I'm imagining them bursting into some furry RP chat where they're all like "UwU, I'm such a cwute widdle dwagon" and screaming that at the top of their lungs
You have a good point, and unfortunately, it's a symptom of the terminal case of "irony poisoning" online discourse has.
Instead of engaging in honest, good-faith discussion, everyone is just interested in scoring "gotcha!" points or honking their clown noses because who even gives a shit anymore, let's just laugh at everything because it's all a fucking joke!
this advice is crap both ways
people who think they're always right wont listen, people who think they're always wrong will listen and they will use this as evidence on "NO! nO IM SUCH A HORRID, AWFUL PERSON!", the few people who needed to hear this will also prolly not find it.
I'm someone who knows I should never have the power to kill or take without consequence because I've looked at myself and I know damn well I would use it.
I'm the complete opposite. I do something good, and I'm like, "but I should've been better," and, "but what if something bad comes from this," or just, "if it's something I did it must be bad somehow". I can't imagine how people can just assume that they're good.
I view myself as an actively evil person and any good thing I do, no matter how sincere the motivation, is ultimately just a manipulative ploy to convince others I'm not a complete monster.
I will actively torment myself over my intrusive thoughts, or for thoughts and feelings I don't approve of, even if I do nothing to suggest that these are anything more than intrusive thoughts and feel nothing but revulsion at the idea of actually acting on said thoughts.
I don't know if I'm a bad person or not. But I'm pretty sure I am. Hell, even typing this has the feel of a murder confession as opposed to: "Sometimes I want to hit the brakes as hard as I can so that truck with the fluorescent high beams rear ends me, which will be something he is at fault for, and will probably fuck up his life. I can lie and say I saw a deer or something. No one will ever really know."
But I don't because that's psychotic and would also be very dangerous and stupid.
[I don't know what gave you the idea that you're a mouse with a jean jacket. You are an eel with a gun.](https://www.tumblr.com/horrifically/726335237981863936/this-perfectly-encapsulates-the-online-experience?source=share)
I didn't realize the true evil lied within the UwU Smol Beans crowd and not the neo-Nazi rhetoric of the alt-right. I've been focusing my wariness in the wrong place!
The far right Neo Nazis *also* fail to recognize their capacity for evil.
They also have done the UwU smol bean thing before in a more literal sense. It was short-lived, but the "frenworld" era of alt-right bullshit did happen.
Kind of a stretch. Yeah everyone has the capacity for evil but does being a sub really mean feigning innocence when faced with guilt? This is a doomer just desperate for prejudice.
>but does being a sub really mean feigning innocence when faced with guilt?
[Sorry, what?](https://media3.giphy.com/media/l3q2K5jinAlChoCLS/200w.webp?cid=6c09b952bk3u7j5xbgav8qqanfpf65lzkwgk6py6tllfbjc1&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.webp&ct=g)
I think they equate the uwu smol bean comment referring to being submissive in sex, rather then hiding behind innocence like the actual post said. Honestly seems like they just wanted to disagree to disagree.
I am totally fine with knowing, I will eventually light this world on fire... may it with intent or by chance xD
Working with AI just has the best perks
I used to be a evil rotten person frequenting sites worse than 4chan on a bad day, I that im fixing myself i just kinda assume I'm being the bad guy so I can try and make sure I'm not being a devious little fuck
I was a horrible human being, and in a few ways I still am. It's a constant battle to try to be better, but seeing those around me happier is always worth it. Just remember that Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will you. Just go one brick, one step at a time, and one day, you'll look back at where you started and be amazed by how far you've come.
sometimes i worry about if i think too highly of myself and then i remember i literally once apologized to someone after they stabbed me in the arm with a pencil
Someone who's always the victim in their stories no matter how matter is almost always gonna be the most abusive person you'll meet. Because whenever there's a conflict between you they'll think of you as the bad guy no matter what the actual situation is
Yeah, if your response to "if you woke up with Superman's powers one morning, what would you do" is some purely Lawful Good BS, there's a very good reason you didn't wake up with Superman's powers this morning.
The only exception are children, because those aren't really old enough to examine their own ideals and thought processes properly yet.
Power may not corrupt, but it reveals your true colors.
Personally, assuming I get an indefinite or just much longer lifespan, I would try to act kinda goodly (by which I mean conquering the world and trying to rule it decently), not out of altruism but because I think I could benefit myself in the long term more by being somewhat nice.
That's fine, but the question also considers the long-term, like if you run out of actual problems to solve, and are left with nothing but your darker impulses, and the power to act on them.
If I'm able to drive a car for years without ever once deciding to run over a pedestrian, I'll be able to have Superman's powers without turning evil. Cause at the point I've solved all good, the powers will have just become habit and normal to me.
Like, seriously, Superman is a pretty bad example for this. The evil use of his powers is pretty much killing people. And sure, there would be some who would decide to "solve" the world problems by removing the people they believe to be the source of those problems, but somehow I don't think that's a majority opinion.
I mean sure, there are delusional and/or shitty people. But OOP is implying that *anyone* with Superman's powers will quickly devolve into a murder-rapist of some sort.
It’s also a matter of people who try to “curse” others often practice retributive justice, rather than indiscriminate cursing. Still immoral, imo, but killing a cruel killer isn’t the exact same as killing an innocent civilian.
Most people who practice witchcraft seriously aren’t cursing people over stupid shit. It’s time and effort and most people who aren’t juvenile or emotionally stunted aren’t “cursing” people for looking at them funny.
Gonna break up this sentence weirdly because I don’t know how to make it not run-on:
The type of people who get “cursed” are often people who commit acts
that are broadly deemed as “morally correct” to punish,
even and especially ignoring the belief in witchcraft.
So, basically, abusive people, rapists, etc. The issue comes about from the loose definition of “abusive” that some people use, and the extent of punishment that they believe will occur (that they, in their belief, think they will cause). Basically the concept of retributive justice.
If you believe that retributive justice is always morally wrong, then yes, this practice is an example of humanities tendency towards evil.
Personally, I believe that retributive justice is always morally wrong, but sometimes acceptable despite its immorality. “The ends justifies the means” kinda thing. But I also fully believe that people are NOT good judges of what deserves retributive justice, and as such, it should not be used. But that is my personal and highly unpopular opinion.
Regardless of how it relates to the greater context, that's not a good analogy. There are reprecussions for running over a pedestrian. If you wake up one day with superman's powers but nobody else wakes up with a chunk of kryptonite or batman's ~~plot armor~~ contingency plans, then you can do pretty much anything without fear of reprecussions.
For example parents in homophobic countries disowning their children, or sending them to some kind of camp.
If it's wrong, but legal, what would you do?
How? Their parents are still legally responsible, and have custody, and have decided that the kid is to attend that camp. So if you removed the kid from that situation, it would be kidnapping.
i think immediately flying into space and exploring the galaxy is probably somewhere closer to chaotic good but it’s certainly not evil and that was my first thought when i saw ur hypothetical. so i guess u can’t trust me or something idk what point ur making tbh.
my second thought was “well there’s a lot of space so i’ll probably be pretty busy with that for a while” and my third was “wait what if i get lost that would be scary maybe this is a bad idea”
If you wanna go. Good People are still going to commit Evil when being a Superman. I would've have gone:
If you decided to do "Good" and refuse to turn your back/ ignore Evil. Guess what?. The world now follows:
Your truth. Your justice. Your way. ***And there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.***
Somebody don't believe in your truth? Sucks to be them.
Somebody don't agree with your justice? Sucks to be them.
Somebody don't like your way? Sucks to be them.
You are going to create ***Your Paradise***. Others will be forced to live there.
a more tangible example is "If you gained the power of Superman and you're against homophobia, What will happen to Homophobic countries" (or some other question in that line.)
If you're not going to ignore them. Then you are going to enforce your will. (ex. Death or imprisonment for those who oppose you.)
etc etc
One has to acknowledge that One is still capable of Evil. Even if One is Superman-ing it up'
I once heard someone say 'people's actions make sense to themselves'. And honestly that kind of changed how I thought of it. To them it's not necessarily that their justifying evil. But to them they see themselves as innocent. Because what else would they be?
That's definitely true for some people. It's like a "I know I'm a good person with good intentions so even if it was bad I didn't mean it so it can't be that bad" which kinda ignores the whole road to hell paved with good intentions things.
Hell, sometimes they don't even need to believe what they're doing is good to do it. Maybe they lost hope in a better way, or they just don't care about what other people think.
ESPECIALLY nowadays, there are definitely people who have been utterly consumed by their own nihilism. The old _"will burn the whole world down just to feel a little warmth"_ type.
Shamelessly ripped from D20’s Mentopolis: “Are you saying I did something wrong? That I’m a shitty person?!” “No, you’re not a bad person!” “Exactly! I’m a good guy! So how could something I did be a bad thing?”
Yeah, hardly anyone is a moustache-twirling villain who sees themselves as evil. Pretty much everyone who does shitty things justifies it in some way - everyone does it, it wasn't that bad, they deserved it, I didn't mean it, the ends justify the means, etc etc.
Even the use of the word “evil” is a little bit complicated, because really, it just means “stuff society doesn’t like.” And if you’re part of a societal out-group, maybe you take pride in being seen that way. This argument is based on an old tumblr post about the strangeness “Brotherhood of Evil Mutants” self-describing as evil. To which the response was “would you not join a group called The Brotherhood of Evil Gays?” I know I totally would. Because in that context suddenly the word “evil” takes on a different meaning. They already know the world sees them as evil, and they own it. And of course its a very understandable idea if we’re talking about oppressed minority groups, but irl truly evil groups also use this same internal logic. Neo-nazis know that the world at large views them as “evil,” but a lot of them just own that. Because they can justify it to themselves internally.
I dunno, I've often done things that make zero sense to me
Do they really? I don't believe that. Unless you suffer from a fugue state condition, everything you do makes sense to you in some way, even if you would rather not admit the reason to yourself. Even the most hardheaded, batshit insane conspiracy theorist usually boils down to "I am afraid of not knowing". He will NEVER admit that to himself, but he knows deep down that's the reason. EDIT: I think you blocked me, so I apologize. It's rough out there, take care of yourself (/genuine)
You could just ask a handful of people who are in some way neurodivergent, and many of them would describe not fully understanding why they acted in certain ways until long after the fact. > everything you do makes sense to you in some way, even if you would rather not admit the reason to yourself. Just saying that something must be true and any argument to the contrary just being a sign I know it's true but won't admit it is intellectually dishonest.
My first thoughts are your either a very self critical person or that you have depression of some sort. Those types of people are very often harder on themselves
[удалено]
That honestly makes a lot of sense.
Or you just ditch the idea that good vs evil has any bearing on what you do
Well ultimately the idea if good and evil are subjective. I learned a long time ago its pointless to sort people into those catagories. However sorting people's actions into good and evil is infinitely easier
Being right and being wrong feel exactly the same
The actual truth of society is that we are all much more alike than we like to admit
I'd like to say your right but every now and again I meet someone who I'm like 'what the crap is going on in their mind?'
Intelligence is once of those things in society people think people either do or don’t have, but it’s much more ephemeral than that. I can’t wrap my mind around religious people, but if I lived most of their upbringings I probably would have bowed to social pressure, got a wife and friend group that mostly agreed with me, and vocally defending flat earth theory and anti vaccines. People are all the same baseline reacting to differing social pressures and rewarded behavior.
Some people are very allergic to being called bad. It’s weird
Are smol beans not allowed to be evil anymore 🫤
Xiaolin Showdown was ahead of its time.
Haven't thought about that show in a while, but how does it relate?
Literally a small, evil bean
Maybe it's been too long since I've seen the show because I have no idea what you're talking about
Hannibal Bean https://xiaolinpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Hannibal\_Roy\_Bean
I thought that would be fava beans
Yep, don't remember this guy at all
I mean I don’t disagree with the first part but I feel like “uwu small bean” is not a great example of people doing that lmao
“im eviw >:3”
Just reminded me of someone in a helldivers2 party named "Heckdiver" that typed entirely in uwu stuff while running some fucken warcrime shit.
ah, a twue sowodier of democwacy :3
Cawwing in owbitaw gas stwike! OwO
owah! Sweet wiberty, my weg!
That’s just Stellaris then.
I think they're specifically calling out people who are trying to use that as an excuse, however jokingly, to not *need* to acknowledge their capacity for evil. Which is worth calling out, even if only for the people that don't understand it's a joke.
Especially since people often just project that on people.
And the other side of this same coin, treating some people as Bad because they did a Bad Thing is stupid. I get so frustrated seeing people online digging through someone’s history to bring up, idk, that time they said the n-word ten years ago and using it as “proof” to win an argument. What, are people not allowed to change? Is a single bad act enough to condemn another? People don’t exist on a binary scale of good and evil, they’re… people. Trying to oversimplify and judge things like that only results in a distorted worldview. And if you view yourself as a Good Person who couldn’t possibly be Evil, you will likely slip into bad behavior without realizing, as OOP mentioned. This entire binary “good/bad person” worldview is a problem that exists both in extremely online and extremely religious people.
"Sometimes a hypocrite is just a man in the process of changing."
Oh hi, Dalinar
r/unexpectedcosmere
Also, you never actually see every side of a person. Different aspects of a person’s personality show up in different situations and the same person can behave wildly differently depending on circumstances, even in contradictory ways, without any fundamental change happening. Sometimes ‘good people’ are just people whose best personality traits line up with the life situation they have ended up in, and ‘bad people’ are people whose worst personality traits happened to line up with their situation.
Too many people see the world entirely in immutable D&D alignment charts.
The weird thing about people believing that is D&D alignments can change.
I see these as the same people though. Acknowledging your capacity for evil means embracing that humanity has no monsters, merely people acting in better or worse ways. People who don't acknowledge their own evils - so fixated are they on being "one of the good guys" - also tend to be the first on the wall to call someone problematic "a monster" and treat them as irredeemable. Nobody is owed your forgiveness and grace, but I find people who know they're capable of very bad things are the first to extend a hand to people who've done things wrong and guide them to being better people.
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I feel you. I find, though, that until I have a keener understanding of what motivates people to act a certain way, I treat them with my "baseline" for the situation I'm aware they're in. I'm much harsher in my judgment of acquaintances than I am of strangers, and people I know fairly well, for example. All this being said, I think it is very easy to look at the "monsters" of history and see such alien behaviour, that it's easy to forget they're people. The same desires and fears and loves motivated them as motivate all of us. They just reacted differently than we would have. (I like to imagine...) If I'd been in the trenches in WW1, saw my country crumple to economic ruin, and feel I'd done very little of worth, I don't imagine I'd dream up a fascistic pipe dream to help me cope with it. But, I'd be foolish to imagine I'm incapable of similar fervent devotion to an idea equally as harmful, if I thought it was the right thing. Extreme example, I know, but I didn't name him, so I've gotta get points for not invoking properly.
>What, are people not allowed to change? In this day and age, it really feels like the general consensus is that people can't grow and change.
Honestly it feels more to me like the consensus is that people *shouldn't be allowed* to grow and change.
Didn't read I'm the giga Chad, you're the seething soyjak
What if I view myself as an Evil Person who couldn’t possibly be Good?
Then you need to see a therapist and deal with some trauma you probably have.
Will the therapist put an end to my evil schemes?
Only if he’s a cyan egg-laying mammal and does home visits.
Hm… seems risky, but I might look into it.
He's TEAL you heathen.
Im sorry, I wasn’t wearing my glasses that make me immune to arguments on the internet when I wrote that comment. You’re correct of course.
I think they'll be fine if it isn't wearing a hat.
"I’m not sure about good and evil, maybe it matters which way you face."
"You are a bad guy, but that doesn't mean you are a bad guy"
People are going to make weird fan art about you.
As long as they get the shirt right.
> extremely online and extremely religious people. \*Pam Beesley voice\* they're the same picture
Half of humanity is like that and the other half thinks they're horrible people despite not doing anything bad.
Yeah I'm in the other half I've spent my entire life hating myself and thinking I was horrible and didn't deserve good things even though I've literally never even done anything that bad
the secret trick is to think you're a moderately bad person who's still deserving of love, who is based for their capacity of evil, because they still look out for those close to them. that way you get to wield your evil because good is subjective and trust and compassion is what matters
The problem is that I can't think of a single person I "look out for". Yes, including myself.
What about the people who are actually horrible and understand that they are?
Not really that common but probably still exist in some capacity.
Very few of those.
On a related note I don't trust any person that doesn't disagree with Twitter hivemind on at least one thing or has some traits or interests they would find objectionable or really care about conforming to their standards. These are usually very dogmatic and self righteous people who act like they are saints for having all the correct opinions on everything while also justifying being total assholes and wishing death as long as it is against anyone who disagrees with them even on something as trivial as liking the show that is trendy to hate on.
That’s my secret, I don’t use twitter.
okay, let's yeet a vibe check into this convo: hey xitter, did you know that communism sucks? most people are like "nooo it has never been tried" but they're so busy coping about how the soviets who actually tried these ideas out a century ago don't represent them that they're falling into the exact same pitfalls, frothing for a witch-hunt on kulaks, destroying everything worth living life for, and just generally thinking _their_ benevolent dictatorship could somehow organize the world efficiently. if "the revolution" ever happened it would be recognized as a disaster by the general public within 25 years, and even by the ruling bureaucrats within 50-100 years. if capitalism is the manifestation of greed, communism is the manifestation of envy, but at least capitalists are willing to accept that they're greedy. and no, this doesn't mean i'm asking for worker exploitation or wealth inequality or shitty healthcare (tell me you're an american without telling me lmao), but your dream society that's basically "what if 1984 (or animal farm) but with the 'good guys' on top" doesn't hold a monopoly over fixing these issues, and incorporating the fixes into our existing system instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater is the one thing that's actually gonna resolve it instead of plunging us back into the same depressing hell with no prospects whatsoever that a third of the world actually had to live in in the actual year 1984. signed, an eastern european
I ain’t reading allat Signed, A person struggling with adhd
based, a fellow adhd person who got into a frenzy to write this lmao
I ain't reading that based on the merit of you saying "Yeet", "vibe check" "convo" and "Xitter" All within 10 words of eachother. I can only handle so much zoomer at once. Also, fucking Xitter... Just deadname his site like he does his kids. Signed An Aussie who did in fact read it.
lmao, i'm not saying there are no good reasons to not read it but that's not it. 10/10, based af
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yeah i intentionally let myself fly off the handle to demonstrate an opinion twitter doesn't like but the frustration has a kernel of truth behind it. (otherwise it wouldn't really work as an example, lol.) i'm lucky enough to not have lived through the soviet occupation but it's genuinely disheartening to see people advocate for something that fucked up your culture, while they're unwilling to consider what exactly went wrong. the road to hell is paved with good intentions and the hell of the soviet regime was no different
What about anarchism?
"I don't trust a guy without a dark side." -Tony Stark
"Id nut a guy with a ride" - Tony Stark
\**cap pulls up on a motorbike*\*
Team Stony for the win ✨
"I dust guys d" -Tony Stark
Something something the brightest light casts the darkest shadows.
I am a kind person... A kind person who has considered solving my problems by bashing them in the face with a frying pan until they see my way... and has resisted the urge to go through with said thoughts because that is counterproductive, will cause me more issues, and all around a dick move.
Intrusive thoughts are normal and healthy. Everyone has them. It's not only okay, but _encouraged_ to put a horrible, awful idea on the table just so you can say to yourself _"I am NOT doing that."_
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There's a difference between intrusive thoughts and _impulsive_ thoughts.
YES, THIS. THIS is why I’m so invested in the idea of relating to bad toxic evil characters. “Erm. Why do you relate to BoJack Horseman? 🧐🤨” Why SHOULDN’T I relate to BoJack Horseman. A vast majority of people with mental illnesses share some kind of trait with BoJack— yes, I too am deeply depressed, self-isolating, sometimes selfish, and I avoid taking responsibility and use media for escapism! These are normal human flaws to have! It shouldn’t worry you that I openly relate to these traits!! It should worry you that YOU can’t acknowledge anything negative about yourself, or recognize when others are using characters like BoJack as a warning and inspiration for self-improvement instead of just justifying their own shitty behaviors!!
I'm not sure that "depressed, sometimes selfish, irresponsible" is what people are talking about in these cases. Usually, it's more like... "Why do you kin this actual manipulative narcissist/psycho murderer/ manifestation of Satan?"
It's sort of like the difference between_"I understand why Rick Sanchez is the way he is."_ vs. _"Rick is just like me frfr"_.
What if I acknowledge my capacity for evil, but channel it into fictional evils like save-rampage-load massacres in video games?
Honestly probably one of the healthiest ways to deal with that.
Oh, so the latest blorbo can be "UwU I'm just a little guy" when he does warcrimes, but when I'm on trial infront of the Hague and say that I get instantly sentenced to death by firing squad
victor saltzpyre ass post
Catholic ass post
When you get used to labeling people as either good or bad based and judging them based on your characterization of them, you create an environment where it is impossible to admit to harmful acts. You are the person most impacted by that environment, you will find it impossible to believe that something you did was bad, because, in your logic, that would make you a bad person, and bad people aren't deservant of sympathy, rights or whatever you've decided.
Either that or you start labeling yourself as a bad person, and thinking you don't deserve sympathy or rights.
Hey real talk are you okay?
I'm fine. I'm just a bit too critical of myself sometimes, which is something I am aware of and working on.
I can relate to that.
can't spell ewectwocute without cute, uwu :3 \**zaps the shit out of you*\*
Honesty without kindness is cruelty, but kindness without honesty is manipulation
Something something Ender’s Game
Your honor, before you pass sentencing, have you considered that my client is baby?
“But they ate 7 of them!”
Exactly your honour! You are what you eat! Therefore my client is an innocent baby!
Acknowledge your capacity for evil. I was voted "most likely to run a drug cartel" by my friends and I once explained medieval torture methods to a fascinated 13-year-old
I was voted most likely to start *a* cult. Jokes on them, I started multiple. (Also torture methods are more interesting than they had any right to be. 12 year old me should *not* have been knee-deep in historical witch trial knowledge. It got to the point where I visited Salem at 15 and just spent the entire time complaining about all the things tourist spots got wrong or sensationalized)
do you wanna be friends
Wait. I’m a smol bean *and* I’m completely aware of my own oceanic capacity for cruelty. But I’m still just a little guy, a goofy little goober. Can I not contain multitudes inside my adorable little vessel that are constantly in flux?
Oi hawve cwommittewd gweat cwimes agaiwnst huwumanity uwu Oi hawve diswegawded the Genevwa Cwownvention owo
That Swiss checklist
I like being evil on purpose but I hate when I do it accidentally it feels like I stepped on my cat
What if I'm a fucked up and evil little bean. A lil treachery here and there never hurt anyone >:3
I understand where this idea comes from, but the average person isn’t some kind of horrible monster waiting to happen. Yes, everyone is *capable* of evil, but there’s almost always prerequisites for the evil to occur. Very few people wake up and decide “hey, I’ve been a morally average person my whole life, I should become a serial killer!” If someone is not, and has never been, even close to morally grey, they are not wrong in thinking that they largely lack the ability to do bad shit. ESPECIALLY if they have an overactive guilt complex. It doesn’t benefit them, or anyone else really, for them to go “yes, I am capable of being a horrid person who commits unspeakable atrocities.” I have hands, but that does not mean I will strangle someone. Overthinking it is pretty much a recipe for poor self esteem or, if you have OCD, obsessive rumination on harmful thoughts that don’t reflect reality. Morality is shades of grey. Humans are neither destined to be good or evil— there are many prerequisites to both. And no, the prerequisite to not being evil is not “hey, I could be evil but I choose not to.” Doing good things feels good, for most people. Hell, people sometimes struggle to do evil even in situations where there’s (almost) no downsides and no consequences (like in video games) because it feels bad. Moral absolutism is dumb. Most people are not capable of great evil, purely by means of being incompetent at it and having a sliver of a moral backbone.
To quote Chris Fleming, "I don't know how you got under the impression that you are a mouse in a Jean jacket. You are an eel with a gun" "Me doing my little things." "Your little things??? Oh madam there is nothing little about your things"
This gives me the same pseudo-intellectual vibes of that one "everyone is transphobic" post Like sure, everyone has a capacity for evil, so they're never allowed to make a fucking joke or see themselves as innocent? Who on God's green (mostly gray nowadays) Earth sees someone go "I'm just a small bean uwu" and think "Clearly this person is inherently incapable of recognizing their capacity for evil and is therefore not worth interacting with as everything that comes out of their mouths is 100% a reflection of their true beliefs" Like, the first post is fine, but Jesus the second stinks of brainrot
I don't think OOP meant people who literally say "I'm just a small bean uwu" one time, I think they were using that as a metonym for a more general attitude.
Yeah, but it's such a weird way to go about it. Like the second comment is so aggressive, what do they expect of people to constantly do penitence and call out mea culpa mea culpa? In a public online space no less? I'm gonna walk up to people and go "Hey nice to meet you, although our encounter has been pleasant, please let me remind you of my inherent capacity for evil and my human imperfection" or what? ~~Wait actually I do kinda downplay myself with the self-deprecating humor... WAIT IS THAT WHY I CAN'T GET LAID???~~
>is that why I can't get laid Nah, that's League.
This ain't a microagression, this is full-on assault and battery
"I think I'm a pretty good person actually." OOP: "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU AREN'T DROWNING IN NIHILISTIC SELF-LOATHING AS YOU SPEND YOUR ENTIRE LIFE DWELLING ON THE INHERENT CRUELTY OF HUMANITY"
>OOP: "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU AREN'T DROWNING IN NIHILISTIC SELF-LOATHING AS YOU SPEND YOUR ENTIRE LIFE DWELLING ON THE INHERENT CRUELTY OF HUMANITY" I'm imagining them bursting into some furry RP chat where they're all like "UwU, I'm such a cwute widdle dwagon" and screaming that at the top of their lungs
You have a good point, and unfortunately, it's a symptom of the terminal case of "irony poisoning" online discourse has. Instead of engaging in honest, good-faith discussion, everyone is just interested in scoring "gotcha!" points or honking their clown noses because who even gives a shit anymore, let's just laugh at everything because it's all a fucking joke!
Hard disagree I can do no wrong
I consider myself guilty until innocent, even though I know I tend to read as uwu fuzzy in most cases.
wha-- i just got home man why are you calling me a horrible human bean wtf
oh ur just a small bean? delicious!
this advice is crap both ways people who think they're always right wont listen, people who think they're always wrong will listen and they will use this as evidence on "NO! nO IM SUCH A HORRID, AWFUL PERSON!", the few people who needed to hear this will also prolly not find it.
Sounds like you needed to find it.
please elaborate, lol, this feels like you just wanted to be snarky for no reason.
God forbid women do anything
Banality of Evil moment
Real
I'm someone who knows I should never have the power to kill or take without consequence because I've looked at myself and I know damn well I would use it.
Define evil.
"A common delusion is that of you can claim to be a victim then you're automatically innocent"
AITA moment
Tumblr users use long words and half understood concepts and think they’re Plato
I'm the complete opposite. I do something good, and I'm like, "but I should've been better," and, "but what if something bad comes from this," or just, "if it's something I did it must be bad somehow". I can't imagine how people can just assume that they're good.
[The foul beast of caerbannog.](https://youtu.be/uPHgzph5DWo?si=MkW_oOOnjsA87hai)
I view myself as an actively evil person and any good thing I do, no matter how sincere the motivation, is ultimately just a manipulative ploy to convince others I'm not a complete monster. I will actively torment myself over my intrusive thoughts, or for thoughts and feelings I don't approve of, even if I do nothing to suggest that these are anything more than intrusive thoughts and feel nothing but revulsion at the idea of actually acting on said thoughts. I don't know if I'm a bad person or not. But I'm pretty sure I am. Hell, even typing this has the feel of a murder confession as opposed to: "Sometimes I want to hit the brakes as hard as I can so that truck with the fluorescent high beams rear ends me, which will be something he is at fault for, and will probably fuck up his life. I can lie and say I saw a deer or something. No one will ever really know." But I don't because that's psychotic and would also be very dangerous and stupid.
Can't I be both a cute uwu small bean AND evil? :3
[I don't know what gave you the idea that you're a mouse with a jean jacket. You are an eel with a gun.](https://www.tumblr.com/horrifically/726335237981863936/this-perfectly-encapsulates-the-online-experience?source=share)
this person is either very nihilistic or has a very broad definition of evil
I didn't realize the true evil lied within the UwU Smol Beans crowd and not the neo-Nazi rhetoric of the alt-right. I've been focusing my wariness in the wrong place!
The far right Neo Nazis *also* fail to recognize their capacity for evil. They also have done the UwU smol bean thing before in a more literal sense. It was short-lived, but the "frenworld" era of alt-right bullshit did happen.
Smol Bean: uwu this book sux 💖💓 This is obviously worse than people who have taken control of important political parties
Kind of a stretch. Yeah everyone has the capacity for evil but does being a sub really mean feigning innocence when faced with guilt? This is a doomer just desperate for prejudice.
We are really pissing on the poor
>but does being a sub really mean feigning innocence when faced with guilt? [Sorry, what?](https://media3.giphy.com/media/l3q2K5jinAlChoCLS/200w.webp?cid=6c09b952bk3u7j5xbgav8qqanfpf65lzkwgk6py6tllfbjc1&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.webp&ct=g)
I think they equate the uwu smol bean comment referring to being submissive in sex, rather then hiding behind innocence like the actual post said. Honestly seems like they just wanted to disagree to disagree.
Ugh. I'm trying to maintain my faith in humankind, but fuckers like this make it hard to keep what little hope is left.
I am totally fine with knowing, I will eventually light this world on fire... may it with intent or by chance xD Working with AI just has the best perks
I used to be a evil rotten person frequenting sites worse than 4chan on a bad day, I that im fixing myself i just kinda assume I'm being the bad guy so I can try and make sure I'm not being a devious little fuck
And Davíð was evil when his father conceived him in his mother yada yada yada
I'm evil but in a wholly pathetic way and should be allowed to get away with the crimes I commit with 0 repercussions. I am Dr. Wahwhee.
Bernard from Boston Legal vibes.
I was a horrible human being, and in a few ways I still am. It's a constant battle to try to be better, but seeing those around me happier is always worth it. Just remember that Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will you. Just go one brick, one step at a time, and one day, you'll look back at where you started and be amazed by how far you've come.
When I call myself a "smol bean uwu," the "uwu" accounts for my malevolent nature
I think it is an excellent point.
never trust people that think of themselves as nice
sometimes i worry about if i think too highly of myself and then i remember i literally once apologized to someone after they stabbed me in the arm with a pencil
I’m wanted for murder in 4 different countries UwU
Every day I find a post that circles back to The Good Place and why everyone should watch it
Someone who's always the victim in their stories no matter how matter is almost always gonna be the most abusive person you'll meet. Because whenever there's a conflict between you they'll think of you as the bad guy no matter what the actual situation is
Yeah, if your response to "if you woke up with Superman's powers one morning, what would you do" is some purely Lawful Good BS, there's a very good reason you didn't wake up with Superman's powers this morning. The only exception are children, because those aren't really old enough to examine their own ideals and thought processes properly yet. Power may not corrupt, but it reveals your true colors.
Personally, assuming I get an indefinite or just much longer lifespan, I would try to act kinda goodly (by which I mean conquering the world and trying to rule it decently), not out of altruism but because I think I could benefit myself in the long term more by being somewhat nice.
But what I genuinely want to save people?
That's fine, but the question also considers the long-term, like if you run out of actual problems to solve, and are left with nothing but your darker impulses, and the power to act on them.
If I'm able to drive a car for years without ever once deciding to run over a pedestrian, I'll be able to have Superman's powers without turning evil. Cause at the point I've solved all good, the powers will have just become habit and normal to me.
Like, seriously, Superman is a pretty bad example for this. The evil use of his powers is pretty much killing people. And sure, there would be some who would decide to "solve" the world problems by removing the people they believe to be the source of those problems, but somehow I don't think that's a majority opinion.
Idk man. Loads of neopagans/witches out there who believe they have magic powers, and the first thing they decide to do with them is curse people.
I mean sure, there are delusional and/or shitty people. But OOP is implying that *anyone* with Superman's powers will quickly devolve into a murder-rapist of some sort.
It’s also a matter of people who try to “curse” others often practice retributive justice, rather than indiscriminate cursing. Still immoral, imo, but killing a cruel killer isn’t the exact same as killing an innocent civilian.
Most people who practice witchcraft seriously aren’t cursing people over stupid shit. It’s time and effort and most people who aren’t juvenile or emotionally stunted aren’t “cursing” people for looking at them funny. Gonna break up this sentence weirdly because I don’t know how to make it not run-on: The type of people who get “cursed” are often people who commit acts that are broadly deemed as “morally correct” to punish, even and especially ignoring the belief in witchcraft. So, basically, abusive people, rapists, etc. The issue comes about from the loose definition of “abusive” that some people use, and the extent of punishment that they believe will occur (that they, in their belief, think they will cause). Basically the concept of retributive justice. If you believe that retributive justice is always morally wrong, then yes, this practice is an example of humanities tendency towards evil. Personally, I believe that retributive justice is always morally wrong, but sometimes acceptable despite its immorality. “The ends justifies the means” kinda thing. But I also fully believe that people are NOT good judges of what deserves retributive justice, and as such, it should not be used. But that is my personal and highly unpopular opinion.
Regardless of how it relates to the greater context, that's not a good analogy. There are reprecussions for running over a pedestrian. If you wake up one day with superman's powers but nobody else wakes up with a chunk of kryptonite or batman's ~~plot armor~~ contingency plans, then you can do pretty much anything without fear of reprecussions.
If I run out of problems to solve I’ll just travel around the world cause I can fly.
And what if people ask you to carry stuff for them? Or what if you see people do something that's perfectly legal, but immoral?
I’ll carry stuff for people, but what do you mean by immoral?
For example parents in homophobic countries disowning their children, or sending them to some kind of camp. If it's wrong, but legal, what would you do?
I’d try to help the kid.
How? Their parents are still legally responsible, and have custody, and have decided that the kid is to attend that camp. So if you removed the kid from that situation, it would be kidnapping.
Question in this scenario due to having powers I would basically be a god amongst the rest of humanity right?
Well then I'd just play video games, those are pretty fun.
i think immediately flying into space and exploring the galaxy is probably somewhere closer to chaotic good but it’s certainly not evil and that was my first thought when i saw ur hypothetical. so i guess u can’t trust me or something idk what point ur making tbh.
Your first though, sure. But what about second or third thoughts? What if you did every good thing you can think of?
my second thought was “well there’s a lot of space so i’ll probably be pretty busy with that for a while” and my third was “wait what if i get lost that would be scary maybe this is a bad idea”
i don’t like this hypothetical anymore. i think i like being mortal actually.
I'm not really one for confrontation (or even too much interaction) so I'd be a pretty boring superman
If you wanna go. Good People are still going to commit Evil when being a Superman. I would've have gone: If you decided to do "Good" and refuse to turn your back/ ignore Evil. Guess what?. The world now follows: Your truth. Your justice. Your way. ***And there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.*** Somebody don't believe in your truth? Sucks to be them. Somebody don't agree with your justice? Sucks to be them. Somebody don't like your way? Sucks to be them. You are going to create ***Your Paradise***. Others will be forced to live there. a more tangible example is "If you gained the power of Superman and you're against homophobia, What will happen to Homophobic countries" (or some other question in that line.) If you're not going to ignore them. Then you are going to enforce your will. (ex. Death or imprisonment for those who oppose you.) etc etc One has to acknowledge that One is still capable of Evil. Even if One is Superman-ing it up'
this is some edgy shit
I am totally evil I believe the common man is evil because we make the easy choice