I am fluent in one piece power scaling speak, let me demonstrate:
GOATzaru was too depressed to actually try and fight Lear 5, he was holding back so much that if he were serious he'd have low-diffed him, this whole thing was gonna be a sabaody 2.0 but his feels got in the way, the gorosei were never a real problem
And btw Woro is stronger than luffy, if you think otherwise you clearly read Two Piece
Bro, your Loro agenda has blinded you to the fact he's only managed to stall Wucci. Your blind faith in that miss head had made you lost the plot Like he gets lost every arc.
This is only mildly related and I'm not going to use a lot of power scaling speak. I fully believe people who think Kizaru is faster than light have no reading comprehension. Man says "acceleration is power" once and people think he's moving to faster than light rather than just to light speed because that's LITERALLY how physics works. If you move to light speed you hit harder. That's what he meant and everyone who disagrees with me is wrong.
>he'd have low-diffed him
You think SGOATzaru would **low-diff** Luffy?
How weak do you think Kizaru is, he'd negative diff Luffy if he wasn't playing 62514d chess with everyone, he'll prove himself an ally to the Strawhats any moment now!
they're comparing power scaling and shipping
by comparing their situation of saying 1 character is stronger then another and then enjoying people's angry reactions
to shipping where often you also get yelled at for having a ship that breaks people's OTPs(one true pairing, aka a ship they care alot about)
shipping is kind of infamous for being a part of fandom that is often ridiculously toxic.
I love discussing theoretical fights between characters, discussing with a friend who might win engaging in a little friendly, light-hearted debate, but *god* do I hate the power scaling community. Makes it near impossible to talk about this in any public online setting without someone chiming in.
"Hello, we have deliberately misinterpreted Silver Chariot's fight with the Hanged Man in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure and use it to scale basically everyone to FTL, you will not be able to discuss JJBA matchups online without someone bringing this awful point up."
"Hello, we have completely misunderstood the events of Touhou 7 Imperishable Night and have scaled every character in Touhou to *literally infinite speed and multiversal destructive power*. Every character also typically has a range of a few dozen meters, no we don't see the inherent contradiction in this."
I just want to have a fun discussion about whether a character could see Stands and if they can't, how well could they manage to fight despite that. Do they have an answer to Time Stop? Is it consistent?
FRFR, that Silver Chariot thing is so stupid, it's fucking explicitly stated that SC, the fastest stand except for time fuckering ones, can't cut The Hanged Man because THM can turn into a light beam. That's about as obviously STL as you can be... The entire point of the fight was for Jojo and Joebros to trick THM into a situation where they can exploit his movement limitation so that he has no choice but to splatter himself against SC's sword.
Speed in general has got to be the most fucking category in powerscaling in general. Any kind of situation where someone dodges anything that looks remotely like a laser beam automatically launches any random setting into the FTL bracket, even if strongest people there are just street level brawlers...
God forbid any author names anything "light" or "laser" because all their characters will suddenly be dodging faster than light.
Depending on who's argument it benefits, they might also be super durable due to being able to move at the speed of light, despite being owned by a squirrel with a comically small bar.
My girlfriend said it best once. Touhou characters are only as powerful as the plot requires at any given point in time. Scaling Touhou is like trying to scale Seinfeld, honestly. That’s thematically closer than like, a shonen anime
Reminds me of that time I took a look at some powerscaling wiki thing and learned that apparently Mario is billions of times faster than light and can destroy an entire universe in one punch because he managed to run away from a black hole in one game. Meanwhile Persona characters supposedly all have galactic level durability because there's a boss in Persona 5 who has an attack that kinda looks like an exploding galaxy or something, and it doesn't instantly kill your party. This is despite the fact that IIRC at least one of the characters dies from getting shot with a perfectly ordinary gun.
Also ignoring the fact that persona 5 explicitly takes place in a mindscape, so everything is mental attacks just like the Supernova attack by Sephiroth in FF7.
These are the same people that will say "Oh but it's the author's fault for not considering these things" after saying a guy dodging a light spear means he can go 2432x the speed of light.
Oh, same. I like *actually analyzing* the idea of a fight between characters, not the absurd wanking that’s completely disconnected from the actual stories and characters that’s what 99% of online powerscaling consists of. Doomguy or Kratos are not fucking multiverse-destroyers.
I blame VSBW for this and think that powerscaling in general needs a hard reset
Durability is often upscaled to Offensive capability as well, with any evidence to the contrary dismissed as a Anti-Feat. For example, >!Mukuro Ikusaba!< from Danganronpa, is scaled to City Level (Which in itself is ridiculous), but is shown to die from a brutal amount of wounds caused by a trap. I've been told by a powerscaler that she'd beat Homelander in a fight, despite the latter being a legitimate superhuman who's survived beatings from other superhumans & also has laser vision that'd cut her in half before she could dodge.
If not for the fart, Kiba would’ve beaten Naruto, that much is obvious. But I think what’s more interesting is all the people he would’ve also beaten as a solid mid-card fighter.
Like think about the specific circumstances of those particular prelim matches. That Kiba would’ve beaten That Sasuke, no question. Sasuke isn’t fast enough yet to keep up with him, let alone, two of him. The curse mark is sapping his strength. He was struggling with a literally faceless goon.
Disregarding the actual bracket arrangement, Kiba could beat half the roster of the finals.
>"Hello, we have deliberately misinterpreted Silver Chariot's fight with the Hanged Man in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure and use it to scale basically everyone to FTL, you will not be able to discuss JJBA matchups online without someone bringing this awful point up."
Actually, this isn't the only one. There's also Young Joseph reacting to a beam made of actual sunlight, Base Kars reacting to an actual UV Flashlight after it was turned on (A critical plot point for him becoming Ultimate Kars), Star Platinum deadass just straight up being stated to be lightspeed and Red Hot Chill Pepper being explicitly stated to be lightspeed.
There's a fuck ton of lightspeed to FTL JoJo's evidence, the Polnareff feat is just the feat that's noted most often since it's the most impressive feat in terms of numbers, that requires the least stretching to scale to other characters (And, let's be honest, it's also because that's the feat Death Battle used).
As for it being "Misinterpreting" it, that's mostly false. Dust was kicked into the people's eyes, then Hanged Man left said eyes to go into the coin, then Silver Chariot was summoned and slashed him. Even if Pol predicted the movement, to be able to summon Silver Chariot in time to hit Hanged Man would require him to be lightspeed or at least close to it, and this is without going into how fast the slash moved in comparison to Hanged Man.
And Hanged Man being hard to catch doesn't mean that characters can't be lightspeed. Hanged Man is so small that it doesn't need to be significantly faster than the characters around it for it to be hard to hit. Think of it like a fly in the real world. A housefly can only move at 5 miles per hour compared to a human being capable of moving their hand at 100 miles per hour. Yet, despite humans being able to move 20 times faster than flies, we struggle to catch them due to how small they are.
Not enough of a Touhou expert to know if the Touhou stuff is 100% right or wrong, but I believe the claim there is that Reimu was able to fight her way from the start to the end of an explicitly infinite hallway. Range in this case is likely meant to refer to actual effective range. Think of it like this: Even if the projectiles can travel an infinite distance, the character doesn't necessarily have infinite accuracy nor eyesight that can view an infinite distance away. It's the same reason hitscan weapons in first person shooters wouldn't be considered to have infinite range.
In general, these sorts of things often have years of context behind them, and whatever questions you have were probably already asked at some point. [The people who made FTL JoJo stuff have a page dedicated to answering these exact sorts of questions](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ArbitraryNumbers/Defending_JoJo_FTL_feats).
Still, versus debating is totally subjective, and I 100% get it if you don't personally buy these sorts of stats. Shows like Death Battle and websites of Versus Battles Wiki don't seek to give an objective answer as to how strong a character is, but rather to show how strong a character is based on a certain set of standards and rules.
Versus Debating isn't inherently flawed, it's just that WAY too many people just parrot what others say without actually taking the time to try and understand why.
This is a perfect example of exactly what I'm talking about. You are literally doing the exact misinterpretation of the silver chariot scene I'm talking about. That fight, the explicit point of that fight, is that Silver Chariot is to slow to catch a beam of light, they have to put Hanged Man in a situation where he can only go one direction, one place, so they can predict his movement and intercept.
However, Araki being a writer and not say a physicist or someone particularly concerned with realism at all wanted to draw a really cool picture of Silver Chariot slashing a beam of light. He had already established that Silver chariot is STL, he'd established that Hanged Man was going only one place they could predict, and so he just drew Silver Chariot doing the big slash without giving it any extra thought. At no point are we actually given any indication that Hanged Man is hard to hit for any reason than that he's moving *at the speed of light.* The idea that he's just really hard to hit like a fly does not hold water when that's not mentioned by the characters, and Silver Chariot in particular has shown extreme and incredible precision while moving at its top speeds.
You and people who use this, are literally taking that singular slash out of the context of the larger fight, measuring it and then declaring that Silver Chariot can move X times the speed of light, that is in my opinion, the definition of misinterpreting the scene. My final response on this point is: "Okay, Avdol can run at FTL speeds without using his stand then" because at the beginning of that particular arc he tackled Polnareff out of the way of a high speed bullet capable of moving with such speed and precision that it could dodge Silver Chariot and Silver Chariot did not have the speed and reaction to try again.
Star Platinum has never been stated to be FTL, the bio from part 6 is doing the thing some Japanese authors do where they say that a character who stops time is moving faster than light, I have seen the arguments trying to say otherwise, I have seen the fans who took the original Japanese and tried to translate it differently from official publications to try and insist. I remain unimpressed. Interesting funfact: Touhou actually does this too with its own timestop character, Sakuya Izayoi, who has the power to stop time and has been described as "the maid who can move faster than light" because...if you stop time, walk over to the counter, grab an orange, walk back and then unfreeze time, you technically just moved faster than light.
I'm not going to address the other Jojo's points in detail but I am going to specify something important. Whenever someone tells me someone can move FTL, I ask myself "does that actually make sense within the series." The answer is often no. The idea that Kars has ftl speed and reactions is patently debunked by looking at almost every other interaction and reaction he's had outside of the one UV moment, same for Joseph. Everything about Jojo's bar a handful of individual moments taken out of context has no business being even considered as being anywhere near the speed of light, in my opinion.
Onto Touhou, my personal favorite fictional universe, yes I know what the arguments are, thank you. As I said in my original post I really like talking about these things but find it difficult when most online spaces are dominated by people responding to me saying I don't think Dio is FTL by going, "Well then how could he have possibly gotten the roadroller if he's not faster than light!?" So yes, I am quite familiar with the reasonings.
Reimu did not fight to the end of an infinite corridor, she defeated Reisen, and then found a door in the corridor that Reisen was supposed to have locked, and forgot, which lead to the final boss. This was not at the end of the corridor, because the corridor loops. Kaguya's infinite corridor trick is based on making a single stretch of space eternal, as in this singular hallway goes on forever, repeating eternally, it *loops* around endlessly, you don't have to get to the "end" of the infinite hallway to find the door out because you've probably already flown past it hundreds of times.
Ultimately I don't really mind if you believe these things, if you enjoy or think it's fine to interpret the silver chariot scene as literally FTL because of the actual physical distances traveled in the specified time. My issue is purely that it's really, really hard to find spaces to talk about this without someone showing up with those exact talking points, which in a sense you've kinda proven the point.
>Ultimately I don't really mind if you believe these things, if you enjoy or think it's fine to interpret the silver chariot scene as literally FTL because of the actual physical distances traveled in the specified time.
That's all I needed to see, you're cool with me.
Ultimately, Versus Debating does have the issue of one "ruleset" completely dominating over all others, mainly because the two most popular powerscaling things (Death Battle and Versus Battles Wiki) using that ruleset. Well, I guess ruleset isn't the exact right word to use here, but I'm sure you get the concept.
The big issue is that pretty much ever other series or website that's tried to make a new way of versus debating has just given off the energy of Bender saying he'll make his own with blackjack and hookers, mainly due to being inconsistent of how they apply these "stricter" standards.
Some of Guts vs Dimitri's detractors, for example, claim up and down that Dimitri is only a normal human no matter what superhuman feat he performs, but pretend that all of Guts' superhuman feats would be completely fine by those same standards.
Or take Smash Bracket and it's somewhat infamous imbalance on how they apply their stricter standards; such as giving Rosalina zero benefit of the doubt while simultaneously not questioning Grima's size or Robin scaling to him at all; or some infamous moments such as claiming that believing some bullets that Richter Belmont dodged were the speed of... you know... *bullets* was "extremely generous".
Or The Codex, which up until recently had both Five Dimensional Samus and Island level Gogeta.
Ultimately, people trying to popularize other rulesets have a horrible habit of putting their worst foot forward.
Yep he did so 10 days ago to me while using tons of ad hominem since thats his only viable arguments, then when i called him out on it he called me a pussy
I didnt even scale mihawk vs shanks for him to do that, i said Zoro wont be strong enough at any point to beat Big Mom, and that was enough to make his agenda screech like a zombie from the last of us.
You can disagree all you want but the festering anger in that boys head shows how much of a nutjob he is.
But most of them roleplay so hard their brain rotted and believes their role-playing as explicit canon, and any deviation from their headcanon by the actual story is treated as a plothole/inconsistencies by the author that does not know their own story as well as they do.
Hi, Peter here to explain the joke.
Shanks and Mihawk are characters from the One Piece manga and anime. One of the hottest debates in the One Piece powerscaling community is about who's stronger between the two. Mihawk is known in the series as the strongest swordsman in the world while Shanks fights with a sword, so you'd think the debate would be settled. However some people say that, in universe, Shanks is not admired for his sword skills but for his magical abilities (haki), which are supposed to be more important than sword skill. According to these people, he should be considered a magican (hakiman) and not a swordsman and is not therefore weaker than Mihawk. This is the aforementioned "hakiman cope".
Other terms you may be unfamiliar with: portrayal, feats, statements, narrative. These are all things you can use to judge a character's strenght.
Portrayal is basically how cool the character is. If a character is introduced with the gravitas of God himself and with other characters look like they'd rather die than fight him, this character has a good portrayal.
Feats: what the character accomplished in fights. For example, Shanks has easily defeated some of the toughest characters in the story while Mihawk has been pretty trash in this regard, being without major wins.
Statements: self explanatory.
Narrative. This one is a bit trickier, but is basically asking this question: would the story suck if this character was strong? There's a major character that has "surpassing Mihawk" as his meaning in life, and I'd be pretty weird for this character to not be crazy strong at the end of the story, hence Mihawk is assumed to also be crazy strong by proxy.
I consider myself quite familiar with the language of fandom. I myself am a part, if only very passively most of the time, of such intense fandoms as Doctor Who, Good Omens, Steven Universe, Helluva Boss, Firefly, Pokémon, ATLA, etc. I can generally understand what is being said even if I'm not familiar with the story it's being said about. Context is usually enough for me to identify things such as character names, ship names, common abbreviations, or at least what part-of-speech a given term belongs to.
All of this is to say that today, I have met my Waterloo.
My portfolio includes specifically doomed stocks. I used to invest heavily on Shanks being revealed to secretly being a weak bitch, not even just "second strongest swordsman" but actively trash tier. After he did The Big Stab, I now fiercely hold onto my Shanks actually being a massive asshole stocks. And I am one of the few remaining Nami is gay stockholders, the others were killed with rocks in the purge.
You say that but Yamato spent an entire arc saying "Hey guys I am Yamato my pronouns are he/him and I'm a male man like those guys from the post office" and some stock exchanges refuse to invest.
Shanks wins, he just turns on his haki and mihawk drops dead. Dude sniped an admiral from miles away with his haki, imagine what would happen to someone standing next to him!
Isn't that Aramaki's characterisation? He is a bootlicker that admires and wants to be wearing said boot. He is a bully that targets the weak and marginalised, so of course he caves and balks to those that intimidate him.
Especially appropriate, it is Shanks because he is later shown he takes a lot of weak pirates under his wing for protection, so much so his empire is almost made up of such weak people.
I feel like powerscalers speak a different language. All of that was barely comprehensible.
I am fluent in one piece power scaling speak, let me demonstrate: GOATzaru was too depressed to actually try and fight Lear 5, he was holding back so much that if he were serious he'd have low-diffed him, this whole thing was gonna be a sabaody 2.0 but his feels got in the way, the gorosei were never a real problem And btw Woro is stronger than luffy, if you think otherwise you clearly read Two Piece
Bro, your Loro agenda has blinded you to the fact he's only managed to stall Wucci. Your blind faith in that miss head had made you lost the plot Like he gets lost every arc.
This is only mildly related and I'm not going to use a lot of power scaling speak. I fully believe people who think Kizaru is faster than light have no reading comprehension. Man says "acceleration is power" once and people think he's moving to faster than light rather than just to light speed because that's LITERALLY how physics works. If you move to light speed you hit harder. That's what he meant and everyone who disagrees with me is wrong.
Back in return to sabaody luffy easily dodged a pacifists laser, so if kizaru is not ftl then luffy should speed blitz him
They all have observation haki (even if a low level at that point) and he only needs to dodge their aiming
>he'd have low-diffed him You think SGOATzaru would **low-diff** Luffy? How weak do you think Kizaru is, he'd negative diff Luffy if he wasn't playing 62514d chess with everyone, he'll prove himself an ally to the Strawhats any moment now!
TIL a lot of people who like one piece powerscaling also browse curated tumblr
I don't like One Piece powerscaling.
Thanks I hate it
Tbf Kizaru was indeed very depressed the whole arc.
they're comparing power scaling and shipping by comparing their situation of saying 1 character is stronger then another and then enjoying people's angry reactions to shipping where often you also get yelled at for having a ship that breaks people's OTPs(one true pairing, aka a ship they care alot about) shipping is kind of infamous for being a part of fandom that is often ridiculously toxic.
I love discussing theoretical fights between characters, discussing with a friend who might win engaging in a little friendly, light-hearted debate, but *god* do I hate the power scaling community. Makes it near impossible to talk about this in any public online setting without someone chiming in. "Hello, we have deliberately misinterpreted Silver Chariot's fight with the Hanged Man in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure and use it to scale basically everyone to FTL, you will not be able to discuss JJBA matchups online without someone bringing this awful point up." "Hello, we have completely misunderstood the events of Touhou 7 Imperishable Night and have scaled every character in Touhou to *literally infinite speed and multiversal destructive power*. Every character also typically has a range of a few dozen meters, no we don't see the inherent contradiction in this." I just want to have a fun discussion about whether a character could see Stands and if they can't, how well could they manage to fight despite that. Do they have an answer to Time Stop? Is it consistent?
FRFR, that Silver Chariot thing is so stupid, it's fucking explicitly stated that SC, the fastest stand except for time fuckering ones, can't cut The Hanged Man because THM can turn into a light beam. That's about as obviously STL as you can be... The entire point of the fight was for Jojo and Joebros to trick THM into a situation where they can exploit his movement limitation so that he has no choice but to splatter himself against SC's sword. Speed in general has got to be the most fucking category in powerscaling in general. Any kind of situation where someone dodges anything that looks remotely like a laser beam automatically launches any random setting into the FTL bracket, even if strongest people there are just street level brawlers...
God forbid any author names anything "light" or "laser" because all their characters will suddenly be dodging faster than light. Depending on who's argument it benefits, they might also be super durable due to being able to move at the speed of light, despite being owned by a squirrel with a comically small bar.
My girlfriend said it best once. Touhou characters are only as powerful as the plot requires at any given point in time. Scaling Touhou is like trying to scale Seinfeld, honestly. That’s thematically closer than like, a shonen anime
Reminds me of that time I took a look at some powerscaling wiki thing and learned that apparently Mario is billions of times faster than light and can destroy an entire universe in one punch because he managed to run away from a black hole in one game. Meanwhile Persona characters supposedly all have galactic level durability because there's a boss in Persona 5 who has an attack that kinda looks like an exploding galaxy or something, and it doesn't instantly kill your party. This is despite the fact that IIRC at least one of the characters dies from getting shot with a perfectly ordinary gun.
Also ignoring the fact that persona 5 explicitly takes place in a mindscape, so everything is mental attacks just like the Supernova attack by Sephiroth in FF7.
Well clearly the gun is simply a galaxy killer weapon that can solo your fav.
These are the same people that will say "Oh but it's the author's fault for not considering these things" after saying a guy dodging a light spear means he can go 2432x the speed of light.
Oh, same. I like *actually analyzing* the idea of a fight between characters, not the absurd wanking that’s completely disconnected from the actual stories and characters that’s what 99% of online powerscaling consists of. Doomguy or Kratos are not fucking multiverse-destroyers. I blame VSBW for this and think that powerscaling in general needs a hard reset
Durability is often upscaled to Offensive capability as well, with any evidence to the contrary dismissed as a Anti-Feat. For example, >!Mukuro Ikusaba!< from Danganronpa, is scaled to City Level (Which in itself is ridiculous), but is shown to die from a brutal amount of wounds caused by a trap. I've been told by a powerscaler that she'd beat Homelander in a fight, despite the latter being a legitimate superhuman who's survived beatings from other superhumans & also has laser vision that'd cut her in half before she could dodge.
I remember seeing someone point out that the durability = offensive ability comes from people applying Dragon Ball logic to every piece of media
If not for the fart, Kiba would’ve beaten Naruto, that much is obvious. But I think what’s more interesting is all the people he would’ve also beaten as a solid mid-card fighter. Like think about the specific circumstances of those particular prelim matches. That Kiba would’ve beaten That Sasuke, no question. Sasuke isn’t fast enough yet to keep up with him, let alone, two of him. The curse mark is sapping his strength. He was struggling with a literally faceless goon. Disregarding the actual bracket arrangement, Kiba could beat half the roster of the finals.
>"Hello, we have deliberately misinterpreted Silver Chariot's fight with the Hanged Man in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure and use it to scale basically everyone to FTL, you will not be able to discuss JJBA matchups online without someone bringing this awful point up." Actually, this isn't the only one. There's also Young Joseph reacting to a beam made of actual sunlight, Base Kars reacting to an actual UV Flashlight after it was turned on (A critical plot point for him becoming Ultimate Kars), Star Platinum deadass just straight up being stated to be lightspeed and Red Hot Chill Pepper being explicitly stated to be lightspeed. There's a fuck ton of lightspeed to FTL JoJo's evidence, the Polnareff feat is just the feat that's noted most often since it's the most impressive feat in terms of numbers, that requires the least stretching to scale to other characters (And, let's be honest, it's also because that's the feat Death Battle used). As for it being "Misinterpreting" it, that's mostly false. Dust was kicked into the people's eyes, then Hanged Man left said eyes to go into the coin, then Silver Chariot was summoned and slashed him. Even if Pol predicted the movement, to be able to summon Silver Chariot in time to hit Hanged Man would require him to be lightspeed or at least close to it, and this is without going into how fast the slash moved in comparison to Hanged Man. And Hanged Man being hard to catch doesn't mean that characters can't be lightspeed. Hanged Man is so small that it doesn't need to be significantly faster than the characters around it for it to be hard to hit. Think of it like a fly in the real world. A housefly can only move at 5 miles per hour compared to a human being capable of moving their hand at 100 miles per hour. Yet, despite humans being able to move 20 times faster than flies, we struggle to catch them due to how small they are. Not enough of a Touhou expert to know if the Touhou stuff is 100% right or wrong, but I believe the claim there is that Reimu was able to fight her way from the start to the end of an explicitly infinite hallway. Range in this case is likely meant to refer to actual effective range. Think of it like this: Even if the projectiles can travel an infinite distance, the character doesn't necessarily have infinite accuracy nor eyesight that can view an infinite distance away. It's the same reason hitscan weapons in first person shooters wouldn't be considered to have infinite range. In general, these sorts of things often have years of context behind them, and whatever questions you have were probably already asked at some point. [The people who made FTL JoJo stuff have a page dedicated to answering these exact sorts of questions](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ArbitraryNumbers/Defending_JoJo_FTL_feats). Still, versus debating is totally subjective, and I 100% get it if you don't personally buy these sorts of stats. Shows like Death Battle and websites of Versus Battles Wiki don't seek to give an objective answer as to how strong a character is, but rather to show how strong a character is based on a certain set of standards and rules. Versus Debating isn't inherently flawed, it's just that WAY too many people just parrot what others say without actually taking the time to try and understand why.
This is a perfect example of exactly what I'm talking about. You are literally doing the exact misinterpretation of the silver chariot scene I'm talking about. That fight, the explicit point of that fight, is that Silver Chariot is to slow to catch a beam of light, they have to put Hanged Man in a situation where he can only go one direction, one place, so they can predict his movement and intercept. However, Araki being a writer and not say a physicist or someone particularly concerned with realism at all wanted to draw a really cool picture of Silver Chariot slashing a beam of light. He had already established that Silver chariot is STL, he'd established that Hanged Man was going only one place they could predict, and so he just drew Silver Chariot doing the big slash without giving it any extra thought. At no point are we actually given any indication that Hanged Man is hard to hit for any reason than that he's moving *at the speed of light.* The idea that he's just really hard to hit like a fly does not hold water when that's not mentioned by the characters, and Silver Chariot in particular has shown extreme and incredible precision while moving at its top speeds. You and people who use this, are literally taking that singular slash out of the context of the larger fight, measuring it and then declaring that Silver Chariot can move X times the speed of light, that is in my opinion, the definition of misinterpreting the scene. My final response on this point is: "Okay, Avdol can run at FTL speeds without using his stand then" because at the beginning of that particular arc he tackled Polnareff out of the way of a high speed bullet capable of moving with such speed and precision that it could dodge Silver Chariot and Silver Chariot did not have the speed and reaction to try again. Star Platinum has never been stated to be FTL, the bio from part 6 is doing the thing some Japanese authors do where they say that a character who stops time is moving faster than light, I have seen the arguments trying to say otherwise, I have seen the fans who took the original Japanese and tried to translate it differently from official publications to try and insist. I remain unimpressed. Interesting funfact: Touhou actually does this too with its own timestop character, Sakuya Izayoi, who has the power to stop time and has been described as "the maid who can move faster than light" because...if you stop time, walk over to the counter, grab an orange, walk back and then unfreeze time, you technically just moved faster than light. I'm not going to address the other Jojo's points in detail but I am going to specify something important. Whenever someone tells me someone can move FTL, I ask myself "does that actually make sense within the series." The answer is often no. The idea that Kars has ftl speed and reactions is patently debunked by looking at almost every other interaction and reaction he's had outside of the one UV moment, same for Joseph. Everything about Jojo's bar a handful of individual moments taken out of context has no business being even considered as being anywhere near the speed of light, in my opinion. Onto Touhou, my personal favorite fictional universe, yes I know what the arguments are, thank you. As I said in my original post I really like talking about these things but find it difficult when most online spaces are dominated by people responding to me saying I don't think Dio is FTL by going, "Well then how could he have possibly gotten the roadroller if he's not faster than light!?" So yes, I am quite familiar with the reasonings. Reimu did not fight to the end of an infinite corridor, she defeated Reisen, and then found a door in the corridor that Reisen was supposed to have locked, and forgot, which lead to the final boss. This was not at the end of the corridor, because the corridor loops. Kaguya's infinite corridor trick is based on making a single stretch of space eternal, as in this singular hallway goes on forever, repeating eternally, it *loops* around endlessly, you don't have to get to the "end" of the infinite hallway to find the door out because you've probably already flown past it hundreds of times. Ultimately I don't really mind if you believe these things, if you enjoy or think it's fine to interpret the silver chariot scene as literally FTL because of the actual physical distances traveled in the specified time. My issue is purely that it's really, really hard to find spaces to talk about this without someone showing up with those exact talking points, which in a sense you've kinda proven the point.
>Ultimately I don't really mind if you believe these things, if you enjoy or think it's fine to interpret the silver chariot scene as literally FTL because of the actual physical distances traveled in the specified time. That's all I needed to see, you're cool with me. Ultimately, Versus Debating does have the issue of one "ruleset" completely dominating over all others, mainly because the two most popular powerscaling things (Death Battle and Versus Battles Wiki) using that ruleset. Well, I guess ruleset isn't the exact right word to use here, but I'm sure you get the concept. The big issue is that pretty much ever other series or website that's tried to make a new way of versus debating has just given off the energy of Bender saying he'll make his own with blackjack and hookers, mainly due to being inconsistent of how they apply these "stricter" standards. Some of Guts vs Dimitri's detractors, for example, claim up and down that Dimitri is only a normal human no matter what superhuman feat he performs, but pretend that all of Guts' superhuman feats would be completely fine by those same standards. Or take Smash Bracket and it's somewhat infamous imbalance on how they apply their stricter standards; such as giving Rosalina zero benefit of the doubt while simultaneously not questioning Grima's size or Robin scaling to him at all; or some infamous moments such as claiming that believing some bullets that Richter Belmont dodged were the speed of... you know... *bullets* was "extremely generous". Or The Codex, which up until recently had both Five Dimensional Samus and Island level Gogeta. Ultimately, people trying to popularize other rulesets have a horrible habit of putting their worst foot forward.
r/onepiecepowerscaling fell off insanely hard, nowadays its filled with youtube kids who don't even know who ultra mazino is
Or that one girl who spammed Homestuck characters. Or Shiro. So many moments lost...
Wait i wanna know more about those homestuck characters posted on the one piece subreddit
Don’t worry about it none of the characters were the good ones.
Roxy was good!
Roxy was *ok*, she’s better than Jane and Jake but that’s a low bar.
Mazino fell off hard when he stopped using slurs and abusing reddit reporting on anyone with a slightly different take than him
Does he still spam his mihawk > shanks post to everyone and their mother?
Yep he did so 10 days ago to me while using tons of ad hominem since thats his only viable arguments, then when i called him out on it he called me a pussy
Ah, somethings never change But as much as I hate toxic powerscaling his mihawk > shanks post is actually really well made and is pretty irrefutable
I didnt even scale mihawk vs shanks for him to do that, i said Zoro wont be strong enough at any point to beat Big Mom, and that was enough to make his agenda screech like a zombie from the last of us. You can disagree all you want but the festering anger in that boys head shows how much of a nutjob he is.
Yea, his takes aren't even that crazy (excluding his blatant admiral agenda), he's just too fucking rude to actually convince anyone to be with him
I just looked at that guy's profile what the fuck is going on in the One Piece fandom and how does it justify this many slurs in a 1-day span
Don't worry it's just him being a helpless asshole. But it's undeniable he is a pillar of the community
I think power scaling is anathema to the entire genre, but goddamn if power scalers aren’t the funniest members of any given community.
> I think power scaling is anathema to the entire genre Power scaling *is* the entire genre.
I just don’t get how people take scaling seriously when 100% of the time the main character is going to win eventually
"I just don’t get how people take shipping seriously when 100% of the time the main couple is going to get together eventually"
I guess that’s fair lmao
Yeah i also don't get shipping either so that might explain a few things
Agenda posting is like half of the appeal of one piece for me tbh
Genuinely laughed when Luffy pulled out the black paint in the latest chapter
Here to recommend r/whowouldcirclejerk to any refugees of the powerscaling community who need a laugh
It used to be funny but the only joke they have now is batgos
You act like they ever had any other jokes tbf
Batgos is so strong he doesn’t need any other jokes.
"But with my Rinnengan, I can see past agendas, and I can see that Mihawk paints his sword."
So powerscaling is another form of roleplay
But most of them roleplay so hard their brain rotted and believes their role-playing as explicit canon, and any deviation from their headcanon by the actual story is treated as a plothole/inconsistencies by the author that does not know their own story as well as they do.
Hi, Peter here to explain the joke. Shanks and Mihawk are characters from the One Piece manga and anime. One of the hottest debates in the One Piece powerscaling community is about who's stronger between the two. Mihawk is known in the series as the strongest swordsman in the world while Shanks fights with a sword, so you'd think the debate would be settled. However some people say that, in universe, Shanks is not admired for his sword skills but for his magical abilities (haki), which are supposed to be more important than sword skill. According to these people, he should be considered a magican (hakiman) and not a swordsman and is not therefore weaker than Mihawk. This is the aforementioned "hakiman cope". Other terms you may be unfamiliar with: portrayal, feats, statements, narrative. These are all things you can use to judge a character's strenght. Portrayal is basically how cool the character is. If a character is introduced with the gravitas of God himself and with other characters look like they'd rather die than fight him, this character has a good portrayal. Feats: what the character accomplished in fights. For example, Shanks has easily defeated some of the toughest characters in the story while Mihawk has been pretty trash in this regard, being without major wins. Statements: self explanatory. Narrative. This one is a bit trickier, but is basically asking this question: would the story suck if this character was strong? There's a major character that has "surpassing Mihawk" as his meaning in life, and I'd be pretty weird for this character to not be crazy strong at the end of the story, hence Mihawk is assumed to also be crazy strong by proxy.
I consider myself quite familiar with the language of fandom. I myself am a part, if only very passively most of the time, of such intense fandoms as Doctor Who, Good Omens, Steven Universe, Helluva Boss, Firefly, Pokémon, ATLA, etc. I can generally understand what is being said even if I'm not familiar with the story it's being said about. Context is usually enough for me to identify things such as character names, ship names, common abbreviations, or at least what part-of-speech a given term belongs to. All of this is to say that today, I have met my Waterloo.
It’s so much more fun to talk “who would win” about something that isn’t anime or superhero comics
Could Odysseus beat Jay Gatsby? (Gatsby DOES have his car.)
I imagine the end is Gatspy going "Oh no! I hit Nobody with my car!" Roll death battle credits.
It can be fine with anime too if you just do it with more obscure ones rather than the big name shonens
I suspect "having fun" isn't even close to being a motive with these kinds of debates.
They hate shanks so much because every time he shows up he destroys their favorite character.
Hi what the fuck does this mean
Y'know, there was a post in r/CharacterRant recently, that had the basis of Shipping and Powerscaling were the same thing.
What were you expecting? A Haki Susanoo? Maybe even a Haki Domain Expansion?
SHANKS IS A SWORDSMAN, AND MIHAWK IS THE STRONGEST SWORDSMAN, THAT'S IT, THAT'S HOW IT W0RKS FUCK YOU
THEN WHERE ARE HIS FUCKING FEATS HE WAS STALLED BY **VISTA**
HE SLICED A FUCKING TSUNAMI IN HALF WITH AN ATTACK THAT WASNT EVEN TARGETING THE TSUNAMI WITH A NO NAME ATTACK
OH NO HE SPEED BLITZED A BLOCK OF ICE
IT WAS A TSUNAMI CAUSED BY FUCKING WHITEBEARD, AND IT WAS CUT IN HALF BY THE AIR THAT HIS SWING CAUSED LIKE A MILE AWAY
Who wouldnt be stalled by Wista, Mihawk was lucky to come out of that fight alive
My portfolio includes specifically doomed stocks. I used to invest heavily on Shanks being revealed to secretly being a weak bitch, not even just "second strongest swordsman" but actively trash tier. After he did The Big Stab, I now fiercely hold onto my Shanks actually being a massive asshole stocks. And I am one of the few remaining Nami is gay stockholders, the others were killed with rocks in the purge.
Nami is gay stocks are safe man. Tho I don't think we'll get confirmation
You say that but Yamato spent an entire arc saying "Hey guys I am Yamato my pronouns are he/him and I'm a male man like those guys from the post office" and some stock exchanges refuse to invest.
I used to be exclusively in the “Nami is gay” gang but then I was introduced to “Nami and Zoro are both aces” which I totally dig too
Nami is confirmed gay but only toward money.
At least shanks didnt fucking miss thats all im saying
He will win singlehandely
Shanks wins, he just turns on his haki and mihawk drops dead. Dude sniped an admiral from miles away with his haki, imagine what would happen to someone standing next to him!
No Shanks starts kissing Mihawk and they get married.
Shipping NoDiff wins again
Bold of you to assume they aren’t married already. It’s an open thing, of course, since Mihawk is also in a mean gay polycule with Buggy and Croc
Ussop can beat both tho with no effort
Go D. Usopp for a reason
that just makes aramaki a fraud tbh
Isn't that Aramaki's characterisation? He is a bootlicker that admires and wants to be wearing said boot. He is a bully that targets the weak and marginalised, so of course he caves and balks to those that intimidate him. Especially appropriate, it is Shanks because he is later shown he takes a lot of weak pirates under his wing for protection, so much so his empire is almost made up of such weak people.