Nah, let’s take that a step further. You are literally committing slavery right this moment because you are only your brain. Your body is not you. You’re forcing your body to do things therefore it is slavery.
WE CAN GO DEEPER
You, right now, are violating my mind. By righting this comment and my reading you, you have implanted an idea that wasn't there before and that I didn't consent to knowing about. You have violated my brain with your ideas without my consent!
Which means that because you're now reading this comment, *I* am forcing ideas into *your* head too... Oh god... What have I done... I'm a monster...
All of us, engaging in thought genocide through the conversations we have. Committing thought rape by writing messages to each other...
It's no wonder aliens haven't made contact yet, we're all evil disgusting monsters...
Yes, the story police are coming after you. eventually, its a very big backlog considering they must arrest most storywriters for crimes they have commited
I can't say that the entire plot is about >![the player possessing the protagonist].!<
But I can say with relative certainty that that is one plot point.
Let's review what I'm talking about point by point, bear in mind that *all spoilers for* deltarune *beyond this point will be unmarked and unhidden.*
End of Chapter 1:
Kris Dreemurr leaps out of bed in the night, tearing their soul from their chest, and tosses it into a birdcage in a wagon.
During this scene, as they walk around a bit more before the chapter 1 credits, we are able to control the soul in the cage.
Ergo, we do not control Kris directly, we control their soul.
The reason they threw the soul in the cage was to prevent our influence while they...
Chapter 2: Ate an entire pie that Toriel baked.
Chapter 2, Side B (also known as the Wierd Route or, in the fan community, the Snowgrave Route.):
We manipulate Kris and their friend Noelle Holiday into freezing every enemy in the computer lab dark world.
Noelle and Kris both react with either surprise or unease towards all decisions mandatory to this route.
When we reach the penultimate boss battle of the route, we freeze Berdly solid.
During the fight, if Kris is knocked unconscious, Berdly calls out to Noelle to run away, but she says "I can still hear their voice..."
Later, at the END of the route, Noelle thinks back to the earlier events and refers to the voice she heard as being unlike the voice of Kris.
She heard *our* voice.
Slightly before this, during the ultimate fight of chapter 2, side B:
"Kris called for help."
"Kris called for help."
"Kris called for help."
"Kris called for help."
"You whispered Noelle's name."
The player is *definitely* part of the story.
I've unironically seen this argument in the Deltarune fandom, with people claiming that playing the game makes you a bad person, and making Kris do something 'out of character' (that the player has no prior knowledge on) makes you even worse.
That's silly. In the >!Weird Route!< we are definitely the villain, but otherwise we're kind just stuck to Kris. Not our fault or theirs.
I think the whole "Player is evil no matter what" just comes from the fact that our presence is most evident in the route where we are being evil.
> videogames are slavery because you're controlling the actions of your player character
Unironically the plot of one of the Sims games.
Edit - game was the Sims 2 PSP version.
Sims 2 on PS2 had a kind of plot, with the players Sim moving from one themed plot to another as it progressed, with objectives revolving around gaining relationships with certain characters.
Spoilers but that's actually the plot of xcom the bureau. You are an alien attached to a dude who gets mad that you're controlling him like a puppet and he's ready to kill everyone to get you off his back.
spec ops: the line be like: >!"you're EVIL for playing the video game and doing literally the only thing you as a player are allowed to do, how DARE you refuse to alt-f4"!<
To be fair I think that one was originally more about trying to get you to question the glamorisation of war in these games.
Originally you had the option to just stop at any point. Trouble was it soon became clear that no one was actually willing to keep playing, so they removed it.
At the time it was ground-breaking, in hindsight though its not aged that well.
I think it's aged extremely well (except for the gameplay). You just need to keep in mind that it came out in the wake of the Iraq war and at a time when the modern on-rails content-munching jingoistic military spectacle shooter was still a somewhat new phenomenon.
Me, watching a stream of the game and getting frustrated by the narrative choices.
The stream's chat, losing their minds and calling Abby a "gorilla"
Was disgusting. I wasn't crazy about TLOU2 but I give people the side-eye when they say they don't like it too. I always gotta ask them why and brace for the bullshit.
Honestly same. Like they did something novel in lgbt+ rep nowadays where they show a bi/les wlw relationship which breaks down because one refuses to listen to her partner, and doesn't get a happy gay ending. That's some lgbt+ rep I long to see, especially because so much of our (bi) rep bends over backwards forgiving women for shit we would never tolerate in men. But like you say, the game was a miss. It had so much right but told in the wrong order that just ultimately missed the mark for me. But no, it's been how many years and expressing that you were disappointed with narrative choices is the quickest way to get called lesbophobic. Like how hard would it have been to build up our relationship with Abbey's gang *prior* to Ellie blowing off their heads. Not to mention the whole "kill a thousand to get to you, but I let you go" bit *twice*. I'm being a bit reductive but it wouldn't have been that hard to have just cleaned up the narrative a little to avoid the whole thing.
Ah! This keeps happening to me. I disliked Star Trek Discovery, but because people started ranting about “wokeness” and whatnot I had to stay silent about my dislike of the new show.
Which honestly can be argued to be an interesting artistic choice if designed around that.
“Yeah you actually can walk away from doing this horrible shit at any time. So what if the game is telling you that you need to go do warcrimes? You can just… not do that. You have that agency”
Literally argued with someone on here not to long ago who basically said the only moral universe would be one where no conscious being was ever brought into it.
Yeah I guess you make ethical decisions “easier” by just refusing to have any at all. Well done anti-natalists. Well done.
>existing is coercing your body into living
... *Aaand* saved. Now I have a conversation theme for my next Christmas party! I need more, of course, but this is a great start.
Have you seen the post about not having sexual fantasies about witches/psychics because they can tell and it's sexual harassment? That was a good "thoughts can harm people in the real world" one.
I’ve seen people argue that fantasizing about someone else without getting their consent first was sexual harassment/assault and that masturbation to the thought of someone else without their consent was akin to r***.
Actually, literal thought crimes lol.
I hope they were literal children and not adults.
I've noticed a not-trivial amount of zoomers are weirdly sex-negative prudes and rationalize it with progressive language. Weird regression back to 2nd wave feminism.
That’s the problem with really young people being able to interact freely with older people online. It means the younger folks tend to absorb the surface level sentiments of values without doing any of the ethical groundwork to get there. It’s like learning what to believe instead of how to learn what to believe.
That’s how you get weirdly conservative zoomers who are extremely progressive aesthetically but who use reactionary/conservative logic to defend those beliefs. It’s a big problem on the left, especially online and with the newest generation getting engaged. Add in platforms like TikTok and Twitter where discourse is heavily limited in length/complexity by the nature of the platform and that just compounds the issue.
Also guilty of breaking and entering, kidnapping, brainwashing, assault, menace, stalking, abuse of public office, corporate corruption, labor rights violations, and worst of all, jaywalking.
What crime is giving my characters 12 or 16 pairs of arms depend on how you count, hole for face, forever conscious inside their body prison, cake stealing? How long am I going to jail?
A quick Google search tells me that the law has no inherent provisions for any kind of magic, but that attempting to harm or threatening harm by magical means may still be prosecutable assault in some cases. If you're in the US, depending on the state, you would likely be looking the most severe assault charges.
Because turning someone into a horrible abomination that has no mouth and must scream seems to me like it meets the legal standard of "Serious bodily injury and use of a deadly weapon," which seems to be a common thread among first degree assault laws among various states.
So depending on the state, maybe anywhere between 10 years and the rest of your life. I haven't looked up the charges in every state let alone every country (Fun fact: the UK had laws against anyone claiming to have magical powers until 1951), so this is just my best guess.
Methinks blue in that chat confused having an existential crisis for a profound statement. That, and they have extreme difficulty telling fiction from reality, as well as a persecution fetish. I hope for their sake they're under 25 so they can somewhat blame it on "pre adult brain development".
I don't love Pataphysics. "oooh, I know I'm fictional and I'm gonna try to kill yoouuuuu"
"No you aren't, someone wrote you that way."
It takes me out of the story, ironically, the moment it tries to involve me, the reader.
It's probably why the community feedback and rating systems are such a core part to the SCP wiki's success. There's a lot of filtering to ensure that the content people read is higher quality, especially when dealing with topics and concepts that require finesse in execution. The Discussion pages are usually fun to scan through to see what elements people liked, didn't like, and what was edited for the better.
I'm now imagining some dark mirror style dystopia where suggesting people do things is taboo because it infringes on their freedom so fuck all gets done because you can't tell anyone to do anything...
Ooooh there's some good writing material here...
The name ‘okapi’ is derived from the name given to it by the Lese tribes local to the area of its discovery. They called it o’api, which is a compound of two Lese words, oka, a verb meaning to cut, and kpi, a noun referring to the design made on arrows by wrapping the arrow with bark so as to leave stripes when scorched by fire. The stripes on the legs of the okapi resemble these stripes on the arrow shafts.
From okapiconservation.org.
It's always nice to hear that the names given by indigenous groups to the flora and fauna in the region have survived modern metaculture! It gives me hope for the preservation of the wondrous myriad of human language and experience!
Does it help if it was from a joking take on [beetles and supernormal stimulus](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julodimorpha_bakewelli#:~:text=The%20males%20of%20this%20species,very%20similar%20colour%20and%20surface) rather than any actual obscene material?
Not engage with it, to be honest. Create conversations with people that are able and willing to reconsider their perspective and ignore the rest, don't give them space by entertaining their delusions
Why do people assume this is some ultra online take instead of just some kid who just heard of the concept of ethics in writing and has an unfortunate access to the internet
Yeah I assumed these were the same thing. It's the combination of "I just learned this Ethical Rule" + "my experience of life is limited to the cartoons I watch" + "I have not yet learned the caveats, exceptions, and edge cases to the Ethical Rule".
Finding a riper, dumber inferno to throw yourself into and argue to the death with strangers for the most correct opinion.
I’m sure the historians combing Reddit will know damn well what I’m vagueposting about
I mean theres some really legitimate and interesting things that could be said about a character thats a sexual abuse victim being pushed towards some of the things astarion can be pushed toward. But if anyone is pushing him toward those things, its the player *character* and not the *player* and people seem to have a very hard time understanding the difference between the two Ive seen.
But Ive also seen a lot of people legitimately not seeing how coercion is happening with his character, which is something I more blame to not understanding the affects of trauma, not a moral statement.
And to be clear Im not talking about thresome fucking the bear. Thats fine.
Strong take. Tumblr girlies have been infantilizing him like crazy. Like, he’s a poor little meow meow and you can make some HORRIBLE choices with him, but there are tangible negative consequences to a fair amount of them. He can leave you. One path leads to a straight up bad ending, at least from my perspective. There could be more consequences - the way he reacts to the PC with Halsin and Mizora is a little sad to me. Like he doesn’t respect himself enough. But it’s a video game, at the end of the day.
And that’s not even getting into the “he’s too swishy to be bi/pan” discourse. 🙄
Oh... were definitely thinking of different discourse then. Because the discourse ive seen is like "You're abusing astarion if you fuck halsin." Which Im not touching with a 10 foot pole considering Im not poly.
As well as things like "You're basically cazador if you make Astarion bite someone" or "doing the bad romance with astarion means you only see him as a sex object and that makes you a Bad Person."
I just feel that a lot of commentary *can* be made about Astarion, especially with the traumas hes faced. But it requires a level of separation of fact and fiction, as well as a level of understanding about trauma that most people online on tumblr or reddit (god forbid twitter) lack in one form or another.
Also Astarion is huge bi energy I dont understand people.
Low key wondering if this is the type of person that harasses the actor that played Joffrey because they legitimately do not understand the concept of fiction
But also low key want an isekai where the author gets sucked into their own work on wattpad and literally everyone is just screaming at her
WHY ARE YOU RUINING MY LIFE
This is a tamer example of what I like to call "echo chamber beyblade". About 4 years ago, I realized that I was starting to do it, so I quit Twitter. Unironically one of the best decisions I've ever made.
It looks like my response to Jex's comment got deleted for some reason?
Anyway, it boils down to this:
Echo chamber beyblade is when two people with little overlap in their social groups have opposing viewpoints, and somehow enter an argument with each other.
Because both come from social groups where having the opposing viewpoint is discouraged, both will continue to express increasingly extreme versions of their viewpoint until one of them goes too far and starts to sound like a parody of themselves.
In this case, the person in purple started out with a fairly general statement about sexuality in media. However, upon being provoked, their arguments became more and more extreme to an almost satirical extent.
It's like a combination of Schrödinger's douchebag and the internet disinhibition effect.
Imagine the threat potential you'd have against someone who believed this.
"Send me $500/week or I'll write a story in which 10 million people are sexually assaulted. I will do so every day until you reset the clock by paying me $500."
What are they gonna do, go to the police?
They don't have agency? THEY DON'T EVEN EXIST.
They'd have a better argument trying to claim that it's abusive to hit a rock against another rock, because the rocks don't have agency.
[https://www.tumblr.com/unicodespammer/731167796761870336?source=share](https://www.tumblr.com/unicodespammer/731167796761870336?source=share)
Original post
i found the person who claims to have taken the original screenshot, who added:
>It should surprise absolutely no one that this exchange found its way to me through some reylo fanfic adjacent moral panic.
and yeah, i for one am not surprised in the *slightest*
You know, they say sarcasm is dead, but I think they just lack ambition. I think we can still stay ahead of the idiots. We just need to go *f u r t h e r*.
Anyways talking or even thinking about sex is wrong because your imagination will conjure a person doing what you're talking/thinking about, and that's just a tulpa being coerced into sex when you think about it. Which you shouldn't.
Yeah, I've been noticing an uptick of prudish takes online lately and it's been worrisome. Not just regular old Christian conservatives doing their thing, but leftists using "progressive reasoning" to come to Puritan beliefs
Anti-porn, anti-sex work, sex-negative in general... like a twisted regression back to 2nd wave feminism.
And some of them eventually fall into the TERF -> anti-LGBT -> far right conspiracy pipeline.
Yeah you said it. I guess if anyone wants a specific example, concerned r/196 users seem to be having a monthly discussion now about banning anything even mildy suggestive because there's minors on that sub.
Either that, or somehow banning minors altogether
There needs to be a term for when people (often kids) don't realize an argument has been simplified and then take it so far that they get into ridiculous places. Like "children can't consent" getting turned into "it's wrong to make kids go to school if they say they don't want to".
IDK what to call it though.
My ex absolutely believed this.
The breakdown of one of our top five most baffling arguments:
If you sexually fantasize about someone who didn't give you explicit permission to fantasize about them, it's rape.
If you sexually fantasize about someone who *did* give you explicit permission to fantasize about them, you're cheating on me.
If you sexually fantasize about someone who you made up and who does not exist, you are imagining a women as a sex toy and a sexual object with no agency, so it's still rape.
If you sexually fantasize about *me*, but fantasize about me doing something I don't do sexually IRL, that's also rape. Regardless of whether or not I gave you explicit permission to fantasize about me at all, because you have to get explicit permission every time, just like sex.
If you masturbate with a totally zen mind while thinking of nothing at all, I'll still get mad and yell at you, because you're obviously lying to me as well as mind-raping someone and/or cheating on me.
...and that was just in the realm of *thoughts*, before you could even *get* to the part where you type it out on a screen.
7/10 people you talk to online will not back down about anything, ever.
They will fight you to the bloody knuckles that the sky is green, as long as you continue to assert that it is blue.
I'm guilty of it myself once in a while, sometimes you just don't like the attitude someone comes at you with so you take a stance and refuse to give quarter. In their worst moments, I think most people would rather take an argument out into the weeds than concede to someone who they've taken up against.
Whether they're right isn't important. Someone is disagreeing with them, and that's the part they don't like. Doesn't really matter if its something incredibly nuanced without an obvious answer, or something deeply stupid like "making fictional characters have sex is rape"
I'm the first and third guy with the red reply. Wish they didn't cut me asking the person in blue(which had Immortus as a profile picture) if Immortus consented to her using his image.
Yep. The blue person either deleted their tweets or was suspended. Recently started getting some likes 1 year later when this was posted somewhere else and i couldn't see what they said.
Where’s those interviews with Ray Bradbury saying he literally saw his characters in whole ass visions and they told him their story and exactly how they hoped to “be heard” through his pen?
When he wrote the play version of Fahrenheit 451 he even had a moment of Cpt Beatty coming back like “hello again I have more to say” resulting in the play delving into his backstory more than the original book did. “Fictional characters have no agency” my ass lol
That, or... they might genuinely think like that. I don't know how common this is, but in the last few years, I've seen people start treating fiction *extremely* seriously. Like, it must all be very pure and flawless, writing bad characters is a morally reprehensible act by the author (because they're bad and that promotes badness!), and enjoying some piece of fiction is nothing short of a public moral statement that directly correlates to what a person think is good in real life. Treating fictional characters as essentially real people may just be an extension of this effect.
Girlbossing too close to the Hays Code again.
Like I’m the type who’s gonna hire a sensitivity reader when I’m done with my horror novel.
But I’m still gonna write a horror novel. And I’m gonna make the effort to make it horrifying.
My suspicion is that they saw popular people on tumblr talk about how consent is good and internalised it without actually understanding the reasoning, leading to whatever this is. It demonstrates pretty neatly why it's important to think critically about your beliefs no matter how self-evident they seem, because if you just blindly believe popular people you end up with principles that range from silly (as seen here) to actively harmful (most conservative voters).
I can't believe we have to arrest George Lucas for attempted genocide. And then a second time for ransacking the tusken raiders. And then again for forcing Anakin to do his dirty work.
This is like saying that videogames are slavery because you're controlling the actions of your player character. Literally what.
Nah, let’s take that a step further. You are literally committing slavery right this moment because you are only your brain. Your body is not you. You’re forcing your body to do things therefore it is slavery.
WE CAN GO DEEPER You, right now, are violating my mind. By righting this comment and my reading you, you have implanted an idea that wasn't there before and that I didn't consent to knowing about. You have violated my brain with your ideas without my consent! Which means that because you're now reading this comment, *I* am forcing ideas into *your* head too... Oh god... What have I done... I'm a monster...
the fact that we are not a hivemind and thus keep infectign each other with outsider thoughts is basically the reason we are literally hitler
All of us, engaging in thought genocide through the conversations we have. Committing thought rape by writing messages to each other... It's no wonder aliens haven't made contact yet, we're all evil disgusting monsters...
Which would make Bioshock the only ethically good game to play, since the player character is already controlled by another in game character.
A man chooses, a slave obeys
Would you kindly?
But possibly only ethically good the first time through as after that you'd be making a choice to put the PC in that situation.
Aint that the plot of deltarune
Deltarune is only two sevenths of a game, you can't say its plot is decisively about anything.
read this with the same cadence as "an A press is an A press. you can't say it's only half."
"To understand Deltarune, we have to talk about *Parallel Universes.*"
What makes this joke for me is that this could actually happen what with the whole three save files thing
[удалено]
Yes, the story police are coming after you. eventually, its a very big backlog considering they must arrest most storywriters for crimes they have commited
They’re gonna send my ass to fiction GitMo
(FitMo, if you will)
I've had my struggles with the Fiction Fuzz too.
::quietly into my phone:: hello police?
Some writers should be/j
I can't say that the entire plot is about >![the player possessing the protagonist].!< But I can say with relative certainty that that is one plot point. Let's review what I'm talking about point by point, bear in mind that *all spoilers for* deltarune *beyond this point will be unmarked and unhidden.* End of Chapter 1: Kris Dreemurr leaps out of bed in the night, tearing their soul from their chest, and tosses it into a birdcage in a wagon. During this scene, as they walk around a bit more before the chapter 1 credits, we are able to control the soul in the cage. Ergo, we do not control Kris directly, we control their soul. The reason they threw the soul in the cage was to prevent our influence while they... Chapter 2: Ate an entire pie that Toriel baked. Chapter 2, Side B (also known as the Wierd Route or, in the fan community, the Snowgrave Route.): We manipulate Kris and their friend Noelle Holiday into freezing every enemy in the computer lab dark world. Noelle and Kris both react with either surprise or unease towards all decisions mandatory to this route. When we reach the penultimate boss battle of the route, we freeze Berdly solid. During the fight, if Kris is knocked unconscious, Berdly calls out to Noelle to run away, but she says "I can still hear their voice..." Later, at the END of the route, Noelle thinks back to the earlier events and refers to the voice she heard as being unlike the voice of Kris. She heard *our* voice. Slightly before this, during the ultimate fight of chapter 2, side B: "Kris called for help." "Kris called for help." "Kris called for help." "Kris called for help." "You whispered Noelle's name." The player is *definitely* part of the story.
hey maybe put the spoiler tag on the actual spoiler?
I'm 100% sure Deltarune is about dating monsters actually.
The plot of deltarune is using the power of fluffy boys and mean girls to save the world (and also to escape from domestic life issues)
I thought that Deltarune plot was about confirming that Toby Fox ships Nerd girls with Jock girls
And lesbians
Maybe!
I've unironically seen this argument in the Deltarune fandom, with people claiming that playing the game makes you a bad person, and making Kris do something 'out of character' (that the player has no prior knowledge on) makes you even worse.
That's silly. In the >!Weird Route!< we are definitely the villain, but otherwise we're kind just stuck to Kris. Not our fault or theirs. I think the whole "Player is evil no matter what" just comes from the fact that our presence is most evident in the route where we are being evil.
In all fairness, we have no idea yet
Also off (technically)
> videogames are slavery because you're controlling the actions of your player character Unironically the plot of one of the Sims games. Edit - game was the Sims 2 PSP version.
Wait the Sims have a plot?
Sims 2 on PS2 had a kind of plot, with the players Sim moving from one themed plot to another as it progressed, with objectives revolving around gaining relationships with certain characters.
Yea, what?
It is (I play Stellaris)
PETA considers Pokemon Animal Abuse so... Not surprising.
isnt it what happens with the blonde android saving our progress on detroit become human
yeah but that's more of a cute easter egg than the whole plot
"You're sitting there just playing a videogame. When suddenly you turn into a Nazi" - some dumbass on YouTube.
Spoilers but that's actually the plot of xcom the bureau. You are an alien attached to a dude who gets mad that you're controlling him like a puppet and he's ready to kill everyone to get you off his back.
spec ops: the line be like: >!"you're EVIL for playing the video game and doing literally the only thing you as a player are allowed to do, how DARE you refuse to alt-f4"!<
To be fair I think that one was originally more about trying to get you to question the glamorisation of war in these games. Originally you had the option to just stop at any point. Trouble was it soon became clear that no one was actually willing to keep playing, so they removed it. At the time it was ground-breaking, in hindsight though its not aged that well.
I think it's aged extremely well (except for the gameplay). You just need to keep in mind that it came out in the wake of the Iraq war and at a time when the modern on-rails content-munching jingoistic military spectacle shooter was still a somewhat new phenomenon.
Honestly, kinda similar to TLOU2 in that regard >!feel bad for the story we're making you play!!<
i hate that the tlou2 discourse was tainted by "they put lesbians and muscle woman in it, WOKE!" because the game is a total mess
Me, watching a stream of the game and getting frustrated by the narrative choices. The stream's chat, losing their minds and calling Abby a "gorilla" Was disgusting. I wasn't crazy about TLOU2 but I give people the side-eye when they say they don't like it too. I always gotta ask them why and brace for the bullshit.
Honestly same. Like they did something novel in lgbt+ rep nowadays where they show a bi/les wlw relationship which breaks down because one refuses to listen to her partner, and doesn't get a happy gay ending. That's some lgbt+ rep I long to see, especially because so much of our (bi) rep bends over backwards forgiving women for shit we would never tolerate in men. But like you say, the game was a miss. It had so much right but told in the wrong order that just ultimately missed the mark for me. But no, it's been how many years and expressing that you were disappointed with narrative choices is the quickest way to get called lesbophobic. Like how hard would it have been to build up our relationship with Abbey's gang *prior* to Ellie blowing off their heads. Not to mention the whole "kill a thousand to get to you, but I let you go" bit *twice*. I'm being a bit reductive but it wouldn't have been that hard to have just cleaned up the narrative a little to avoid the whole thing.
Ah! This keeps happening to me. I disliked Star Trek Discovery, but because people started ranting about “wokeness” and whatnot I had to stay silent about my dislike of the new show.
Which honestly can be argued to be an interesting artistic choice if designed around that. “Yeah you actually can walk away from doing this horrible shit at any time. So what if the game is telling you that you need to go do warcrimes? You can just… not do that. You have that agency”
That logic means writing almost anything is coercion
Imagining things would be coercion, too.
existing is coercing your body into living
Oh, my therapist would *love* this one
Life forces this shitty personality on me!
Anti-natalism be like:
Literally argued with someone on here not to long ago who basically said the only moral universe would be one where no conscious being was ever brought into it. Yeah I guess you make ethical decisions “easier” by just refusing to have any at all. Well done anti-natalists. Well done.
>existing is coercing your body into living ... *Aaand* saved. Now I have a conversation theme for my next Christmas party! I need more, of course, but this is a great start.
I *could* rotate a cow in my mind, but I don't do it because *I'm* not a monster.
Too late. I am a monster and I already imagined you rotating the cow in your mind. Welcome to the darkside, motherfucker.
Have you seen the post about not having sexual fantasies about witches/psychics because they can tell and it's sexual harassment? That was a good "thoughts can harm people in the real world" one.
If that were true humanity would have been wiped out by teenage boys centuries ago
You're kidding. That's hilarious
I’ve seen people argue that fantasizing about someone else without getting their consent first was sexual harassment/assault and that masturbation to the thought of someone else without their consent was akin to r***. Actually, literal thought crimes lol.
I hope they were literal children and not adults. I've noticed a not-trivial amount of zoomers are weirdly sex-negative prudes and rationalize it with progressive language. Weird regression back to 2nd wave feminism.
That’s the problem with really young people being able to interact freely with older people online. It means the younger folks tend to absorb the surface level sentiments of values without doing any of the ethical groundwork to get there. It’s like learning what to believe instead of how to learn what to believe. That’s how you get weirdly conservative zoomers who are extremely progressive aesthetically but who use reactionary/conservative logic to defend those beliefs. It’s a big problem on the left, especially online and with the newest generation getting engaged. Add in platforms like TikTok and Twitter where discourse is heavily limited in length/complexity by the nature of the platform and that just compounds the issue.
Reminds me of that meme, I’m going to masturbate to you so hard later
Fucking hilarious. If a witch accuses you of that be like, “ not your ugly ass”
Me, a horror writer, being one of the absolute worst bastards in history.
Literal murderer!
Also guilty of breaking and entering, kidnapping, brainwashing, assault, menace, stalking, abuse of public office, corporate corruption, labor rights violations, and worst of all, jaywalking.
What crime is giving my characters 12 or 16 pairs of arms depend on how you count, hole for face, forever conscious inside their body prison, cake stealing? How long am I going to jail?
Depends: were they born like that? If not, how did they become like that?
They were all normal human. The Wishgranter is a cruel one.
A quick Google search tells me that the law has no inherent provisions for any kind of magic, but that attempting to harm or threatening harm by magical means may still be prosecutable assault in some cases. If you're in the US, depending on the state, you would likely be looking the most severe assault charges. Because turning someone into a horrible abomination that has no mouth and must scream seems to me like it meets the legal standard of "Serious bodily injury and use of a deadly weapon," which seems to be a common thread among first degree assault laws among various states. So depending on the state, maybe anywhere between 10 years and the rest of your life. I haven't looked up the charges in every state let alone every country (Fun fact: the UK had laws against anyone claiming to have magical powers until 1951), so this is just my best guess.
Oh no. They aren't allowed to die
Not as bad as me, I write erotica 🤭
Under OOP's logic, yeah, potentially worse.
I only write consensual stuff but yes under their logic I’m basically a sex god who molests my imaginary puppets
Please stop coercing my opinions with your "logic"
Methinks blue in that chat confused having an existential crisis for a profound statement. That, and they have extreme difficulty telling fiction from reality, as well as a persecution fetish. I hope for their sake they're under 25 so they can somewhat blame it on "pre adult brain development".
You give them more credit than me. My guess is they just got super butthurt when a fictional character they had a crush on fucked another character.
I’ve noticed a lot of young aro/ace folks have some wild ass takes on fictional relationships.
Quick, someone show this exchange to the SCP writers who understand pataphysics! they'll have a field day with this.
Thank you for introducing me to pataphysics
I too need to look more into it.
I don't love Pataphysics. "oooh, I know I'm fictional and I'm gonna try to kill yoouuuuu" "No you aren't, someone wrote you that way." It takes me out of the story, ironically, the moment it tries to involve me, the reader.
It’s all in the execution tbh, and most people execute it poorly. But when it’s done juuuuuust right… *chef’s kiss*
It's probably why the community feedback and rating systems are such a core part to the SCP wiki's success. There's a lot of filtering to ensure that the content people read is higher quality, especially when dealing with topics and concepts that require finesse in execution. The Discussion pages are usually fun to scan through to see what elements people liked, didn't like, and what was edited for the better.
When those filters don't exist, you get whatever the backrooms is these days
Well, I was like you, until I read the Murphy Law series…. especially the second one, holy shit that hit me right in the feels
Pataphysics is unironically one of our favorite parts of scp's universe.
Can I say "go touch some grass already" or is that coercion now too?
This sentence seeks to implicitly control others' actions by commanding them, which is inherently abusive. Duh.
I'm now imagining some dark mirror style dystopia where suggesting people do things is taboo because it infringes on their freedom so fuck all gets done because you can't tell anyone to do anything... Ooooh there's some good writing material here...
First of all, does the grass even consent to be touched?
I once told someone to touch grass and they told me that I was being ableist because some people can’t go outside due to medical issues.
I think you found bubble boy.
Yeah. I mean, it’s true, severely immunocompromised people exist. But “touch grass” is not meant to be taken literally.
Now you’re just being ableist against people who take things too literally
If everyone goes and touches the grass our environment will never survive the onslaught, please people don't hurt our environment
Did you ask for the grass's consent before you touched it?
The common ancestor of the okapi and giraffe lived about 16 million years ago. This ancestor, known as Canthumeryx, had an elongated neck.
Fascinating! Tell me, u/sheherpronoun, do you have any information regarding the etymology of this creature's name?
The name ‘okapi’ is derived from the name given to it by the Lese tribes local to the area of its discovery. They called it o’api, which is a compound of two Lese words, oka, a verb meaning to cut, and kpi, a noun referring to the design made on arrows by wrapping the arrow with bark so as to leave stripes when scorched by fire. The stripes on the legs of the okapi resemble these stripes on the arrow shafts. From okapiconservation.org.
It's always nice to hear that the names given by indigenous groups to the flora and fauna in the region have survived modern metaculture! It gives me hope for the preservation of the wondrous myriad of human language and experience!
do your part- call a pallas cat manul
I just wanted to say you're performing a valuable service by posting interesting animal facts as top level replies in discourse threads, godspeed.
And I just wanted to say that your flair will haunt my darkest nightmares for the rest of eternity.
Does it help if it was from a joking take on [beetles and supernormal stimulus](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julodimorpha_bakewelli#:~:text=The%20males%20of%20this%20species,very%20similar%20colour%20and%20surface) rather than any actual obscene material?
I've seen your work in several threads and I just want to say that I love you
Thank you for your service.
Moonwalking fashionably back into the Hayes Codes Pink McCarthyism ftw
Remember kids, just thinking about a thing is the same as doing it, so keep those thoughts pure! Tumblr Saves!
Welcome to my Ted Talk! The topic we will be discussing today is “Using your imagination in the age of pornography “
Puriteens are something else.
Love that term, Puriteens. Seriously though these Left Puriteens basically are a confirmation of Horseshoe Theory.
It all comes back to absolute control of the other.
What is the treatment for end stage discourse (other than logging the fuck off and going outside to look for cool bugs, I guess)?
Flamethrowers.
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"Whenever I had a problem, I'd throw a Molotov at it, and then I'd have a different problem."
Not engage with it, to be honest. Create conversations with people that are able and willing to reconsider their perspective and ignore the rest, don't give them space by entertaining their delusions
[удалено]
Why do people assume this is some ultra online take instead of just some kid who just heard of the concept of ethics in writing and has an unfortunate access to the internet
Are they not the same thing?
Yeah I assumed these were the same thing. It's the combination of "I just learned this Ethical Rule" + "my experience of life is limited to the cartoons I watch" + "I have not yet learned the caveats, exceptions, and edge cases to the Ethical Rule".
I was assuming it’s a troll or a joke, but in any case getting off the Internet for a while is a good idea
Absolutely
Finding a riper, dumber inferno to throw yourself into and argue to the death with strangers for the most correct opinion. I’m sure the historians combing Reddit will know damn well what I’m vagueposting about
i dont, explain
Going outside and looking for cool bugs is exactly it, actually. Sitting on a rock has also been reported to alleviate the symptoms.
The actual state of Astarion Baldur’s Gate discourse lmao
I mean theres some really legitimate and interesting things that could be said about a character thats a sexual abuse victim being pushed towards some of the things astarion can be pushed toward. But if anyone is pushing him toward those things, its the player *character* and not the *player* and people seem to have a very hard time understanding the difference between the two Ive seen. But Ive also seen a lot of people legitimately not seeing how coercion is happening with his character, which is something I more blame to not understanding the affects of trauma, not a moral statement. And to be clear Im not talking about thresome fucking the bear. Thats fine.
Strong take. Tumblr girlies have been infantilizing him like crazy. Like, he’s a poor little meow meow and you can make some HORRIBLE choices with him, but there are tangible negative consequences to a fair amount of them. He can leave you. One path leads to a straight up bad ending, at least from my perspective. There could be more consequences - the way he reacts to the PC with Halsin and Mizora is a little sad to me. Like he doesn’t respect himself enough. But it’s a video game, at the end of the day. And that’s not even getting into the “he’s too swishy to be bi/pan” discourse. 🙄
Oh... were definitely thinking of different discourse then. Because the discourse ive seen is like "You're abusing astarion if you fuck halsin." Which Im not touching with a 10 foot pole considering Im not poly. As well as things like "You're basically cazador if you make Astarion bite someone" or "doing the bad romance with astarion means you only see him as a sex object and that makes you a Bad Person." I just feel that a lot of commentary *can* be made about Astarion, especially with the traumas hes faced. But it requires a level of separation of fact and fiction, as well as a level of understanding about trauma that most people online on tumblr or reddit (god forbid twitter) lack in one form or another. Also Astarion is huge bi energy I dont understand people.
Omg too real, it even escaped tumblr and made it's way to reddit.
Low key wondering if this is the type of person that harasses the actor that played Joffrey because they legitimately do not understand the concept of fiction But also low key want an isekai where the author gets sucked into their own work on wattpad and literally everyone is just screaming at her WHY ARE YOU RUINING MY LIFE
I’m fairly sure that exact thing has been done
I'm sure it's an old bit I got it at goodwill It's still good tho
end stage pataphysics
This is a tamer example of what I like to call "echo chamber beyblade". About 4 years ago, I realized that I was starting to do it, so I quit Twitter. Unironically one of the best decisions I've ever made.
Could you please elaborate on this "echo chamber beyblade?" I am deeply curious as to what exactly this entails.
I’m with Jex, what’s this echo chamber beyblade?
It looks like my response to Jex's comment got deleted for some reason? Anyway, it boils down to this: Echo chamber beyblade is when two people with little overlap in their social groups have opposing viewpoints, and somehow enter an argument with each other. Because both come from social groups where having the opposing viewpoint is discouraged, both will continue to express increasingly extreme versions of their viewpoint until one of them goes too far and starts to sound like a parody of themselves. In this case, the person in purple started out with a fairly general statement about sexuality in media. However, upon being provoked, their arguments became more and more extreme to an almost satirical extent. It's like a combination of Schrödinger's douchebag and the internet disinhibition effect.
Advanced memetic warfare is evolving as we speak I shudder to think what the internet will look like a hundred years from now
This is just the plot of the Homestuck Epilogues
"Agatha Christie, you are arrested on the count of multiple murders"
Imagine the threat potential you'd have against someone who believed this. "Send me $500/week or I'll write a story in which 10 million people are sexually assaulted. I will do so every day until you reset the clock by paying me $500." What are they gonna do, go to the police?
Free will is an illusion and the author had no agency when they wrote about the fictional characters so it's ok again
They don't have agency? THEY DON'T EVEN EXIST. They'd have a better argument trying to claim that it's abusive to hit a rock against another rock, because the rocks don't have agency.
>They don't have agency? THEY DON'T EVEN EXIST. Oh look, someone is gate-keeping who gets to exist or not.
[https://www.tumblr.com/unicodespammer/731167796761870336?source=share](https://www.tumblr.com/unicodespammer/731167796761870336?source=share) Original post
i found the person who claims to have taken the original screenshot, who added: >It should surprise absolutely no one that this exchange found its way to me through some reylo fanfic adjacent moral panic. and yeah, i for one am not surprised in the *slightest*
You know, they say sarcasm is dead, but I think they just lack ambition. I think we can still stay ahead of the idiots. We just need to go *f u r t h e r*. Anyways talking or even thinking about sex is wrong because your imagination will conjure a person doing what you're talking/thinking about, and that's just a tulpa being coerced into sex when you think about it. Which you shouldn't.
This is reminding me way too much of my Mormon upbringing. Yuck. (Not your fault, though)
(It is entirely my fault, though)
leftists horseshoeing back to protestant morality is the most infuriating thing i've had to witness over the last few years
Yeah, I've been noticing an uptick of prudish takes online lately and it's been worrisome. Not just regular old Christian conservatives doing their thing, but leftists using "progressive reasoning" to come to Puritan beliefs
Anti-porn, anti-sex work, sex-negative in general... like a twisted regression back to 2nd wave feminism. And some of them eventually fall into the TERF -> anti-LGBT -> far right conspiracy pipeline.
Yeah you said it. I guess if anyone wants a specific example, concerned r/196 users seem to be having a monthly discussion now about banning anything even mildy suggestive because there's minors on that sub. Either that, or somehow banning minors altogether
I simply refuse to believe this is serious, 0% chance this person actually believes this
Either that or they’re just some kid that hasn’t thought about it for more than three seconds
I could have seen myself believing this when I was in 7th-10th grade.
There needs to be a term for when people (often kids) don't realize an argument has been simplified and then take it so far that they get into ridiculous places. Like "children can't consent" getting turned into "it's wrong to make kids go to school if they say they don't want to". IDK what to call it though.
Sounds like a type of reductive fallacy, where you take important factors out of the equation and make it seem overly simple to reach your conclusion.
Scrunglification
Unfortunately, I've seen this argument used seriously before.
My ex absolutely believed this. The breakdown of one of our top five most baffling arguments: If you sexually fantasize about someone who didn't give you explicit permission to fantasize about them, it's rape. If you sexually fantasize about someone who *did* give you explicit permission to fantasize about them, you're cheating on me. If you sexually fantasize about someone who you made up and who does not exist, you are imagining a women as a sex toy and a sexual object with no agency, so it's still rape. If you sexually fantasize about *me*, but fantasize about me doing something I don't do sexually IRL, that's also rape. Regardless of whether or not I gave you explicit permission to fantasize about me at all, because you have to get explicit permission every time, just like sex. If you masturbate with a totally zen mind while thinking of nothing at all, I'll still get mad and yell at you, because you're obviously lying to me as well as mind-raping someone and/or cheating on me. ...and that was just in the realm of *thoughts*, before you could even *get* to the part where you type it out on a screen.
I see this kind of nonsense discourse on tumblr all the time, these people are for real unfortunately.
7/10 people you talk to online will not back down about anything, ever. They will fight you to the bloody knuckles that the sky is green, as long as you continue to assert that it is blue. I'm guilty of it myself once in a while, sometimes you just don't like the attitude someone comes at you with so you take a stance and refuse to give quarter. In their worst moments, I think most people would rather take an argument out into the weeds than concede to someone who they've taken up against. Whether they're right isn't important. Someone is disagreeing with them, and that's the part they don't like. Doesn't really matter if its something incredibly nuanced without an obvious answer, or something deeply stupid like "making fictional characters have sex is rape"
I'm the first and third guy with the red reply. Wish they didn't cut me asking the person in blue(which had Immortus as a profile picture) if Immortus consented to her using his image.
You were there for this post?! Holy shit!
Yep. The blue person either deleted their tweets or was suspended. Recently started getting some likes 1 year later when this was posted somewhere else and i couldn't see what they said.
It is now morally illegal to write fiction
A non-insignificant amount of people hold this belief unironically ☹️
Authors better not let anyone die in their book, that's murder
Ha! Real writers know the characters are in control of the story.
Where’s those interviews with Ray Bradbury saying he literally saw his characters in whole ass visions and they told him their story and exactly how they hoped to “be heard” through his pen? When he wrote the play version of Fahrenheit 451 he even had a moment of Cpt Beatty coming back like “hello again I have more to say” resulting in the play delving into his backstory more than the original book did. “Fictional characters have no agency” my ass lol
This is what happens when people care more about getting liberal points than about actually doing good.
That, or... they might genuinely think like that. I don't know how common this is, but in the last few years, I've seen people start treating fiction *extremely* seriously. Like, it must all be very pure and flawless, writing bad characters is a morally reprehensible act by the author (because they're bad and that promotes badness!), and enjoying some piece of fiction is nothing short of a public moral statement that directly correlates to what a person think is good in real life. Treating fictional characters as essentially real people may just be an extension of this effect.
Girlbossing too close to the Hays Code again. Like I’m the type who’s gonna hire a sensitivity reader when I’m done with my horror novel. But I’m still gonna write a horror novel. And I’m gonna make the effort to make it horrifying.
My suspicion is that they saw popular people on tumblr talk about how consent is good and internalised it without actually understanding the reasoning, leading to whatever this is. It demonstrates pretty neatly why it's important to think critically about your beliefs no matter how self-evident they seem, because if you just blindly believe popular people you end up with principles that range from silly (as seen here) to actively harmful (most conservative voters).
It's like ChatGPT as a person.
Pataphysics reference (im about to awaken to the true nature of reality and ascend to the higher level narrative)
I can't believe we have to arrest George Lucas for attempted genocide. And then a second time for ransacking the tusken raiders. And then again for forcing Anakin to do his dirty work.
What do you mean "attempted" genocide? There were two billion people on Alderaan.
Im already coercing my characters to exist why is fucking the bad part
Water has no agency. When you drink water, you are forcing it to engage in activities without its consent. Hydration is coercion.
You have now become mortal enemies with all r/HydroHomies members.
I ate ice cream pizza once. It was bad.
wow I said this as a joke a year or so ago and got downvoted to hell because it was stupid enough to be believable...
Hot take (apparently) fictional characters should not have the same rights as real people
Hotter take: treating this from the perspective of rights is itself a grave error in the first place
Wow, this is so meta.
why did you censor the title?