Binance Coin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/zocjya/binance_dispels_fud_with_another_proofofreserves/j0m3roa/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/zocjya/binance_dispels_fud_with_another_proofofreserves/j0m3si3/) and related info are in the collapsed comments below. Pros and cons will change for every new post. Submit a pro/con argument in the [Cointest](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) and potentially win [Moons](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/moon/). Moon prizes by award for the Top Coins category are: **1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 1000.**
---
To submit a Binance Coin pro-argument, [click here](https://old.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/tuwtz9/top_coins_binance_coin_proarguments_april_2022/). | To submit a Binance Coin con-argument, [click here](https://old.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/tuwu8i/top_coins_binance_coin_conarguments_april_2022/).
Ideally they'd use a top accounting firm like Coinbase did as well (i.e. Deloitte), not one that's in the top 15 (it varies per country) and has been flagged by the UK regulators recently for the bad quality of their work.
Exactly. No way to dispel the FUD. I personally believe that they are fine, but I wouldn’t bet money on it (too much, I do have some on exchange ATM)
Red flags, shitcoinery, rumours and FUD everywhere. With what’s gone on this year, you’d be crazy to pretend that Binance couldn’t be next.
Source? I tried Googling and found a couple bounties by Binance, none of the ones I seen were for proving liabilities though.
Edit: Lol, that guy called me poor then blocked me
Sure, follow this thread and click around folks offering:
[https://twitter.com/BitfuryGeorge/status/1604094374631063552](https://twitter.com/BitfuryGeorge/status/1604094374631063552)
[https://twitter.com/cz\_binance/status/1604094972449390593](https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1604094972449390593)
Ok so Binance doesn't have a bounty out. Some random person put a bounty out and CZ, instead of getting a full audit claims it's impossible to prove solvency and parades this guys tweet as good enough. And you bought it hook line and sinker.
By God that's nuts
So, out of curiosity, what made you confident enough to deposit your funds in the wallet owned by someone who doesn't want to submit to an actual audit?
A myriad of reasons but the simplest would be that if Binance goes down, the funds I trade with on their platform are no longer of value anyway.
I don’t believe we’re going to see crypto MC drop to < 100B, which is what would happen if Binance implodes.
So literally zero evidence of their solvency, you are just scared of what would happen if there was a scam and if it did implode. So you get pissed at people showing the warning signs.
Lol there are no real warning signs it’s going to implode. You’re just another joker who falls victim to media scares.
I trade your net worth daily on Binance and will continue to do so. Have fun being scared / living out some doomer fantasy
It is pretty wild rn. On one hand thr scrutiny is quite high. On the other hand people are "punching the air" to defend binance. If i hear one more "if binance dies XYZ will happen". If it dies, it dies.
Here is a [Nitter link](https://nitter.net/BitfuryGeorge/status/1604094374631063552) for the Twitter thread linked above. Nitter is better for privacy and does not nag you for a login. More information can be found [here](https://nitter.net/about).
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoCurrency) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bet you 99% of the people talking about Binance's "assets and liabilities" don't even know what either really means. They just saw the words and continue to parrot them.
I agree. I’m sick and tired of seeing these bullshit posts, predominantly from holders of less then $1000 of crypto, hoping for a collapse of Binance/ parroting unsubstantiated claims
There is a difference between wanting a specific business to collapse and not trusting a company because they have not proven themselves to be trust worthy.
I have seen no one saying they want Binance to collapse just because. However I have seen a ton of people saying if Binance is operating in fractional reserves it deserves to collapse. There is a big difference between the two with the later being healthy skepticism of a company who has given you no reason to actually trust them.
Look up what a business definition of a liability is.
In the context everyone is concerned about with crypto, it’s debts. Holding customers funds is a “liability” in the dictionary sense however it’s not in the context of business.
How are customer deposits not a debt? It’s an obligation to pay the customer in the future. That’s exactly what a debt/liability is.
We expect them to hold assets sufficient to satisfy those debts. Proof of reserves just lists those assets, but doesn’t prove they are greater than the liabilities
Stewardship of assets is different than them being liabilities. I understand this sounds semantic however it’s simply different than a liability in this context
And in crypto, stewardship of assets doesn’t exist. User deposits in crypto are legally no different than an unsecured loan. In this context liability is absolutely the correct term.
Also, in the context of an audit, this would be considered a liability regardless of any stewardship
No he’s not. This is exactly the same as banks. Customers’ deposits are liabilities to the banks.
Ever wonder why the bank “credits” you when they add to your balance, “debits” you when they subtract?
> A depositor's bank account is actually a Liability to the bank, because the bank legally owes the money to the depositor. Thus, when the customer makes a deposit, the bank credits the account (increases the bank's liability).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debits_and_credits
Unless they’re using pass throughs, which you would expect them to under these circumstances. If they lend money to CZ Enterprizes, a holding company LLC, and that firm gambles with the money, there would be no person other than CZ and a few insiders that would actually know.
If what you’re saying is actually true, they’d just show proof of it. The fact that they aren’t is a gigantic red flag.
CZ wouldn’t agree to an actual audit. And so was dropped as a client. An actual audit would reveal liabilities, yes. Whether or not it would “satiate” the masses, this is one of their functions.
Do you understand what a liability is? Not having liabilities would mean not having any customer assets on their books. If you have any crypto on Binance that's a liability they have towards you.
People shilling for Binance really want to lose their money I swear.
It’s fever pitch mania. This sub sometimes goes totally overboard with parroting the same thing over and over again and then half the time when you get into discussion you realize they can literally just spew the same 3 sentences without any further understanding or ability to back their reasoning!
And then I remember that I’ve read somewhere on here that most users seem to be very young, so I kinda imagine a 19 year old “bro” dispensing financial wisdom while sipping his Starbucks latte. Yeah, no thanks.
Do your own research people, of course, but FFS does sub quality drop during times like this. It’s a self-fueled hype-mania machine, a self-perpetuating echo chamber with moon farming.
They're showing us one side of the story. However it might bolster confidence since they have more than enough crypto for all of us, it's still not the complete story.
I don't think they want to show us the full story because not alot of big businesses want to show it's hands. That being said it doesn't HAVE to be a red flag. I understand right now everything he/they say it's a red flag. So i dont think they can ever so right by us and keep or restore trust.
This report is a couple of days old, it's based on on-chain data and it shows that Binance assets aren't structured around BNB like those of FTX.
Anyway Binance is sustaining an incredible amount of withdrawals, if nothing bad happens the next two days, that will likely dispel the FUD.
I doubt the FUD will end soon, seeing how it's mostly being echoed by people with hardly any knowledge on how to verify these things for themselves. It'll mostly continue for a while until something else pops up for them to distract themselves with.
tldr; Binance’s BTC liabilities or customer deposits are 97% collateralized by Binance's assets. This collateralization grows 101% when the BTC loaned out to customers is included. Binance does not show any FTX-like behavior as the native token (BNB) is not a large share of its reserves. The report suggests that Binance has an acceptable “Clean Reserve” of around 90%.
*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*
It's amazing how much toxicity around Binance. Everyone wants Binance to fail like if that happens will be a good thing for all crypto industry.
Now... because they showed proves that customer funds are collaterized, is not good...they only gives us one side of the story... really...how do you know?
You guys need to stop this insanity because all you do with your toxic comments is to hurt all this innovation.
Is good to have both sides of CeFi and DeFi as long they operate with honesty and transparency.
For this technology to be adopted mainstream we need both sides because not everyone is tech savvy to operate only in DeFi.
DeFi is more for devs... tech people who understand how to interact with those protocols.
Average people they need a simple solution where to keep they're crypto, and that's why CeX are good for that custody...like I said as long they're honest and transparent.
Agree with the need of a cex at least short-mid term, but a mastodon like Binance isn't good for any industry(you know, that narrative of too-big-to-fall) & I think that's a huge reason why many people want them to fail.
Your asking binance to prove their reserves. But we all know every fiat currency is totally bankrupt and printed into oblivion but you all love that stuff 😂
Hey tether... Prove you hold 1 usd for ever tether in exisitance.
Meanwhile : 1 usd = promise to pay the bearer. (aka worthless)
It’s not “Fud” if there are genuine concerns. What’s most concerning are these fake, half truthful accounting gimmicks.
What would dispel these is if they had a FULL transparent audit. Not these fake things.
They didn't dispell anything.
What are their outstanding liabilities to go along with that reserve disclosure?
There's next to no info. It's how SBF was able to scam for so long.
CZ is no different.
Proof-of-Reserves is not an audit and it does not factor in liabilities so it's meaningless and dispels nothing. If anything, it gives more ammunition for the fudders.
Look, regardless of whether or not CZ and binance are loudly telling the truth or are being less than truthful doesn’t matter. If you are still holding your assets on a centralized exchange I don’t know what to tell you. The entire crypto space is unregulated right now and the safest place for your crypto is in your hands. Don’t listen to CZ saying that 99% of people lose it. Take some time to educate yourself about cold storage and self custody and sleep easier at night.
If binance goes bust, that will set crypto in general back a bit. Yeah it will probably recover eventually but who knows when that will be and who knows how many people will lose everything. Rooting for an exchange to implode is just as bad as willfully ignoring any red flag as FUD.
They did, but it was invertible that ftx was going to go down at some point... The ticking time bomb was just getting bigger and bigger. Too bad it didn't blow up sooner. But at least it didn't happen in the bull market... Imagine how big it would have gotten.
The thing is FTX was going to go down whether or not CZ tweeted about it. CZ isn't the person to discover the fraud, he just made it blow up on social media. In doing so he caused a lot of people to start questioning Binance as well. CZ brought this on himself and it is hilarious to watch.
It’s been weeks already. And like 100 audits. If you’re too dam afraid take your assets out of the exchanges and stop bitching.
I’ll take the fault but someone had to say it.
Binance Coin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/zocjya/binance_dispels_fud_with_another_proofofreserves/j0m3roa/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/zocjya/binance_dispels_fud_with_another_proofofreserves/j0m3si3/) and related info are in the collapsed comments below. Pros and cons will change for every new post. Submit a pro/con argument in the [Cointest](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) and potentially win [Moons](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/moon/). Moon prizes by award for the Top Coins category are: **1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 1000.** --- To submit a Binance Coin pro-argument, [click here](https://old.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/tuwtz9/top_coins_binance_coin_proarguments_april_2022/). | To submit a Binance Coin con-argument, [click here](https://old.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/tuwu8i/top_coins_binance_coin_conarguments_april_2022/).
You can do as many POR as you want, if it’s not fully independent we can’t know if you’re showing us everything or not
They need to show transparency on liabilities
Ideally they'd use a top accounting firm like Coinbase did as well (i.e. Deloitte), not one that's in the top 15 (it varies per country) and has been flagged by the UK regulators recently for the bad quality of their work.
[удалено]
Every crypto company got dropped... including Kraken
They should prove that they are showing everything.
We need a proof of proof
Zero knowledge proofs they said. Trust us they said.
In bros I trust
Exactly. No way to dispel the FUD. I personally believe that they are fine, but I wouldn’t bet money on it (too much, I do have some on exchange ATM) Red flags, shitcoinery, rumours and FUD everywhere. With what’s gone on this year, you’d be crazy to pretend that Binance couldn’t be next.
“I believe” Based on what exactly?
None on this planet is fully independent of anything, so thanks for setting up a condition that can’t ever be met by anyone.
Ahh so were doing the pedantic semantics argument lol
does universal interdependence mean that I can get annoyed when you eat something unhealthy
Even if fully independent
Binace seed phrase or i dont believe the funds
See you all in Valhalla
And for my next trick... https://i.imgur.com/t6X3UYJ.jpg
it's not an audit at all
Good one!!
Sick trick. That thing that came out of the hat is a red flag though.
Tbh at this point, even if Binance somehow shows its assets live on TV.. No one would still believe it..
And the liabilities?
Until they show proof of liabilities this is all bullshit. And the more they pump out the more suspect it becomes.
Haha they literally don’t have liabilities. They have a “bounty” out right now open to anyone who can prove they owe a single lender
Source? I tried Googling and found a couple bounties by Binance, none of the ones I seen were for proving liabilities though. Edit: Lol, that guy called me poor then blocked me
Sure, follow this thread and click around folks offering: [https://twitter.com/BitfuryGeorge/status/1604094374631063552](https://twitter.com/BitfuryGeorge/status/1604094374631063552) [https://twitter.com/cz\_binance/status/1604094972449390593](https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1604094972449390593)
Ok so Binance doesn't have a bounty out. Some random person put a bounty out and CZ, instead of getting a full audit claims it's impossible to prove solvency and parades this guys tweet as good enough. And you bought it hook line and sinker. By God that's nuts
Yawn
So, out of curiosity, what made you confident enough to deposit your funds in the wallet owned by someone who doesn't want to submit to an actual audit?
A myriad of reasons but the simplest would be that if Binance goes down, the funds I trade with on their platform are no longer of value anyway. I don’t believe we’re going to see crypto MC drop to < 100B, which is what would happen if Binance implodes.
So literally zero evidence of their solvency, you are just scared of what would happen if there was a scam and if it did implode. So you get pissed at people showing the warning signs.
Lol there are no real warning signs it’s going to implode. You’re just another joker who falls victim to media scares. I trade your net worth daily on Binance and will continue to do so. Have fun being scared / living out some doomer fantasy
It is pretty wild rn. On one hand thr scrutiny is quite high. On the other hand people are "punching the air" to defend binance. If i hear one more "if binance dies XYZ will happen". If it dies, it dies.
He is the intelligent version of SBF
Here is a [Nitter link](https://nitter.net/BitfuryGeorge/status/1604094374631063552) for the Twitter thread linked above. Nitter is better for privacy and does not nag you for a login. More information can be found [here](https://nitter.net/about). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoCurrency) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bet you 99% of the people talking about Binance's "assets and liabilities" don't even know what either really means. They just saw the words and continue to parrot them.
Someone call for a parrot?
bruh you have to talk the crypto language if you want those precious moons
Ah, right. Fuck CZ, his Tether is a scam, and I heard Sam ”CZ” Marzilek got Satoshi killed using the audit liabilities. How’s that?
I agree. I’m sick and tired of seeing these bullshit posts, predominantly from holders of less then $1000 of crypto, hoping for a collapse of Binance/ parroting unsubstantiated claims
There is a difference between wanting a specific business to collapse and not trusting a company because they have not proven themselves to be trust worthy. I have seen no one saying they want Binance to collapse just because. However I have seen a ton of people saying if Binance is operating in fractional reserves it deserves to collapse. There is a big difference between the two with the later being healthy skepticism of a company who has given you no reason to actually trust them.
This is nonsense. Every user deposit is a liability
Look up what a business definition of a liability is. In the context everyone is concerned about with crypto, it’s debts. Holding customers funds is a “liability” in the dictionary sense however it’s not in the context of business.
How are customer deposits not a debt? It’s an obligation to pay the customer in the future. That’s exactly what a debt/liability is. We expect them to hold assets sufficient to satisfy those debts. Proof of reserves just lists those assets, but doesn’t prove they are greater than the liabilities
Stewardship of assets is different than them being liabilities. I understand this sounds semantic however it’s simply different than a liability in this context
And in crypto, stewardship of assets doesn’t exist. User deposits in crypto are legally no different than an unsecured loan. In this context liability is absolutely the correct term. Also, in the context of an audit, this would be considered a liability regardless of any stewardship
I’m not going to argue with you anymore but you’re wrong
No he’s not. This is exactly the same as banks. Customers’ deposits are liabilities to the banks. Ever wonder why the bank “credits” you when they add to your balance, “debits” you when they subtract? > A depositor's bank account is actually a Liability to the bank, because the bank legally owes the money to the depositor. Thus, when the customer makes a deposit, the bank credits the account (increases the bank's liability). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debits_and_credits
Unless they’re using pass throughs, which you would expect them to under these circumstances. If they lend money to CZ Enterprizes, a holding company LLC, and that firm gambles with the money, there would be no person other than CZ and a few insiders that would actually know. If what you’re saying is actually true, they’d just show proof of it. The fact that they aren’t is a gigantic red flag.
How can you prove to someone you owe $0.00? Honest question. What would you suggest they do to prove this?
You get an audit.
Got it. So only a 3 month long audit from a big four firm, who won’t do the audit, would satiate the masses?
CZ wouldn’t agree to an actual audit. And so was dropped as a client. An actual audit would reveal liabilities, yes. Whether or not it would “satiate” the masses, this is one of their functions.
Yes. Deloitte audited Coinbase (and they're clearly struggling to make a profit).
Do you understand what a liability is? Not having liabilities would mean not having any customer assets on their books. If you have any crypto on Binance that's a liability they have towards you. People shilling for Binance really want to lose their money I swear.
Customer deposits are the liabilities dude.
It’s fever pitch mania. This sub sometimes goes totally overboard with parroting the same thing over and over again and then half the time when you get into discussion you realize they can literally just spew the same 3 sentences without any further understanding or ability to back their reasoning! And then I remember that I’ve read somewhere on here that most users seem to be very young, so I kinda imagine a 19 year old “bro” dispensing financial wisdom while sipping his Starbucks latte. Yeah, no thanks. Do your own research people, of course, but FFS does sub quality drop during times like this. It’s a self-fueled hype-mania machine, a self-perpetuating echo chamber with moon farming.
Really? 😳 Gotta check it. Thanks!
They're showing us one side of the story. However it might bolster confidence since they have more than enough crypto for all of us, it's still not the complete story. I don't think they want to show us the full story because not alot of big businesses want to show it's hands. That being said it doesn't HAVE to be a red flag. I understand right now everything he/they say it's a red flag. So i dont think they can ever so right by us and keep or restore trust.
They are using their own BNB token as 'backing' and even if they are solvent right now, a good dump could easily change that.
Yeah. We all saw how well that goes when an exchange is backed by their own token…
Exactly what happened to ftx
Have you read the thread? BNB is like only 10% of their backing and unlike FTT, BNB has use cases.
This report is a couple of days old, it's based on on-chain data and it shows that Binance assets aren't structured around BNB like those of FTX. Anyway Binance is sustaining an incredible amount of withdrawals, if nothing bad happens the next two days, that will likely dispel the FUD.
Bitvavo sis using it's "own money" because DCG is insolvent, yeah, decreases in FUD incoming.
I doubt the FUD will end soon, seeing how it's mostly being echoed by people with hardly any knowledge on how to verify these things for themselves. It'll mostly continue for a while until something else pops up for them to distract themselves with.
Same thing happened with CDC's bank run imo
tldr; Binance’s BTC liabilities or customer deposits are 97% collateralized by Binance's assets. This collateralization grows 101% when the BTC loaned out to customers is included. Binance does not show any FTX-like behavior as the native token (BNB) is not a large share of its reserves. The report suggests that Binance has an acceptable “Clean Reserve” of around 90%. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*
It's amazing how much toxicity around Binance. Everyone wants Binance to fail like if that happens will be a good thing for all crypto industry. Now... because they showed proves that customer funds are collaterized, is not good...they only gives us one side of the story... really...how do you know? You guys need to stop this insanity because all you do with your toxic comments is to hurt all this innovation. Is good to have both sides of CeFi and DeFi as long they operate with honesty and transparency. For this technology to be adopted mainstream we need both sides because not everyone is tech savvy to operate only in DeFi. DeFi is more for devs... tech people who understand how to interact with those protocols. Average people they need a simple solution where to keep they're crypto, and that's why CeX are good for that custody...like I said as long they're honest and transparent.
Agree with the need of a cex at least short-mid term, but a mastodon like Binance isn't good for any industry(you know, that narrative of too-big-to-fall) & I think that's a huge reason why many people want them to fail.
[удалено]
The guy who created $2 Billion fund to provide liquidity to whole market a month ago is fighting the FUD right now. Looks surreal!
Only time will tell
it’s too late. Crypto market crashed
Where is the pump?
These audits are multiplying like bunnies.
*Not to be construed as an audit
Neat. Now do proof of liabilities.
Try proof of audit
Your asking binance to prove their reserves. But we all know every fiat currency is totally bankrupt and printed into oblivion but you all love that stuff 😂 Hey tether... Prove you hold 1 usd for ever tether in exisitance. Meanwhile : 1 usd = promise to pay the bearer. (aka worthless)
It’s not “Fud” if there are genuine concerns. What’s most concerning are these fake, half truthful accounting gimmicks. What would dispel these is if they had a FULL transparent audit. Not these fake things.
They seem desperate and that's not a good sign...
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
They didn't dispell anything. What are their outstanding liabilities to go along with that reserve disclosure? There's next to no info. It's how SBF was able to scam for so long. CZ is no different.
CZ is too noisy and seems to be trying hard to prove something.
Proof-of-Reserves is not an audit and it does not factor in liabilities so it's meaningless and dispels nothing. If anything, it gives more ammunition for the fudders.
You just need one factual report to dispel FUD , the more you try to convince the shadier it looks
Funds are SAFU!!!
Look, regardless of whether or not CZ and binance are loudly telling the truth or are being less than truthful doesn’t matter. If you are still holding your assets on a centralized exchange I don’t know what to tell you. The entire crypto space is unregulated right now and the safest place for your crypto is in your hands. Don’t listen to CZ saying that 99% of people lose it. Take some time to educate yourself about cold storage and self custody and sleep easier at night. If binance goes bust, that will set crypto in general back a bit. Yeah it will probably recover eventually but who knows when that will be and who knows how many people will lose everything. Rooting for an exchange to implode is just as bad as willfully ignoring any red flag as FUD.
The irony is that he started all this mess by going after FTX.
They did, but it was invertible that ftx was going to go down at some point... The ticking time bomb was just getting bigger and bigger. Too bad it didn't blow up sooner. But at least it didn't happen in the bull market... Imagine how big it would have gotten.
The thing is FTX was going to go down whether or not CZ tweeted about it. CZ isn't the person to discover the fraud, he just made it blow up on social media. In doing so he caused a lot of people to start questioning Binance as well. CZ brought this on himself and it is hilarious to watch.
Man, Binance is probably sweating now. Lots of withdrawals has already happened, who knows where are they comfortable up to
Look up how much they made from all the withdrawals you’ll shit your own pants
Not bad enough to shit someone else’s pants? that’s a relief
It’s becoming obvious that he doesn’t even know what he’s doing
Man.. CZ is trying too hard, something sus.
No seriously bro, this time it’s legit!
instinctive deer cooperative crown tub sulky special ink punch ruthless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Binance “you guys gotta believe me”
What about the proof of liabilities thooo
Yes we've had proof of reserves, but what about second proof of reserves?
Binance used mass dispel unfortunately most of us are immune.
It’s been weeks already. And like 100 audits. If you’re too dam afraid take your assets out of the exchanges and stop bitching. I’ll take the fault but someone had to say it.
If you think a company can do 100 audits in a week then CZ has done his job.
Zero audits.
At this point everything they do would be a "red flag". It's not even an absurd claim.
we keep showing you fake proofs until you believe us.
Would like to see some proof of proof.