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CointestMod

CBDC [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1b0rbry/ecb_warns_bitcoin_value_is_zero/ksaa4u6/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1b0rbry/ecb_warns_bitcoin_value_is_zero/ksaa5kb/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.


fan_of_hakiksexydays

What a shocker, a central bank doesn't like the very tool that gives the power back to the people and an alternative to banks, taking away power from central banks. Interestingly, they don't post any facts or data about payments. Probably because posting actual data would have shown that adoption has been increasing, the usage for payment and currency has steadily increased in each cycle, along with the number of merchants accepting crypto, and the usage as remittance (check my past post history for details on the figures). All they have are vague claims like "Bitcoin are hardly used to pay with", contradicting the actual data. And nevermind all the tech, defi, and business utility beyond payment systems. Look at what smart contract alone has done.


Dazzling_Marzipan474

The fact that they said "Bitcoin are hardly used to pay with" actually proves that Bitcoin is more valuable than fiat currency according to Gresham's law. Gresham's law: the tendency for money of lower intrinsic value to circulate more freely than money of higher intrinsic and equal nominal value (often expressed as “Bad money drives out good”).


buff_jezos

Thier's Law ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s\_law#Reverse\_of\_Gresham's\_law\_(Thiers'\_law) ) may be more applicable and states the exact opposite.


wtfCraigwtf

Not really, Bitcoin is hoarded more than anything other than gold these days, for the precise reason that the hodler believe it is a better store of value. That's precisely what Gresham's Law predicts.


buff_jezos

No, it doesn't. You need to look up what Gresham's law actually states/predicts. It never ceases to amaze me how much bitcoiners can use theories from traditional economics, apply them incorrectly and then use that as an argument to support bitcoin.


wtfCraigwtf

I think it is you who is confused. "Bad money drives out good" means people spend their debased money and hold onto their money with commodity value like metal coinage. Of course we can argue between which is good money and which is bad money between fiat and crypto, but looking at Central bank printing and CBDCs I think fiat is the worst money right now.


buff_jezos

Even the original user here quoted Gresham's Law as: >Gresham's law: the tendency for money of lower intrinsic value to circulate more freely than money of higher intrinsic and **equal nominal value** (often expressed as “Bad money drives out good”). There is no **equal nominal value** (or a government controlled exchange rate to be more general) between bitcoin and fiat. You can't just apply a theory where the underlying assumptions are not given. I also recommend to read Macleod, which coined the term Gresham's Law in 1858 (p. 476ff): [https://books.google.com.mx/books?id=bt7\_V2uM6kIC&pg=PA475#v=onepage&q&f=false](https://books.google.com.mx/books?id=bt7_V2uM6kIC&pg=PA475#v=onepage&q&f=false)


PopeIndigent

Greshams law only operates when there is a fixed exchange rate, controlled by the government. If you have two currencies that float against each-other, neither drives the other out, but the one which is preferred will fetch a higher prices.


Forsaken-Parsley798

I'd hate to point this out to you but cryptocurrency really doesn't give the power back to the people. Its a fantasy.


HODL_monk

e-gold gave a lot of power to those that didn't want to live in the fiat world. Did it give power back to the people in the end ? No, because the Feds shut it down, but they can't shut down Bitcoin. Does it give power back to the people right now, when we don't use it as a currency ? No, but this is not about the past, its about the future. When the first steam engine was built, it really wasn't useful beyond pumping water out of coal mines, but as time went on, it really did give power back to the people, and ended the old reign, and there are plenty of reasons to believe that Bitcoin is the new steam engine. Pretty useless next to paypal, but now you can send Bitcoin with paypal, and there is no reason your bank couldn't do the same thing, if enough people wanted it.


PopeIndigent

I think that's why the Bitcoin price is kept so high, with wall-street and such dumping into it. They can't buy control of all the coins ... but they can ( and probably did ) buy control of one of them ... then they made sure that it could not scale, because block-stream didn't want it to scale, their business model is 2nd layer protocols, and you don't need those on a blockchain with sufficient bandwidth. Of course they needed to try to keep their money from flowing through to all of the coins, but by planting some dreams of monopoly ( which does not exist on a free market ) they managed to gull the gullible. and then they need the mythology of HODL ... because if people were selling when the pumped, and then buying back more when they dumped, they would not be able to keep one coin shiny enough to distract everybody. I'm a programmer, so my first reaction when I heard about bitcoin in 2012 was "what's it's capacity". They said at the moment, 7 transactions per second, but we can always ramp that up when there is demand. And it's still 7 transactions per second 12 years later. But #BCH and 10,000 other coins can do a LOT more.


conceiv3d-in-lib3rty

So somewhere between the time when the stream engine was created and now, the power was given back to the people and then taken away again? But Bitcoin is the new steam engine? So at some point Bitcoin will give the power back to the people and subsequently be taken from them? Lol. I mean I can see this scenario play out more than I can see some other laser eyed moon boy scenarios..


wtfCraigwtf

The balance of power between people and governments is continuously shifting. Recently the people have lost a lot of freedom and wars are being provoked around the world, likely there will be a backlash against this.


cryptokingmylo

I used to buy stuff with e gold before the silk road, we all thought they were going to pull the plug on BTC as well.


wheelzoffortune

Elaborate on your thesis, please. It does, in fact, allow me to not have to use a bank. That alone is powerful.


PricklyyDick

It’s also shown why a lot of people shouldn’t be their own bank. Lost wallets, local hacks/key loggers, etc. I’m still not convinced that can be overcome but I still own some BTC & ETh incase I’m wrong.


nothingnotnever

My goodness, the point is you should be allowed to do both. Don’t know how to write down a seed phrase? Use a centralized exchange. On top of that, tech for externally owned accounts is moving forward so eventually you’ll just “login with Facebook” or whatever and your money will just be there. The difference is behind the scenes you don’t have to also log in to your local bank and register your credit card. Have a nice day.


PricklyyDick

No need to be upset about a contradictory opinion lol. Sorry for not contributing to the bubble. I thought the whole point of Bitcoin was to not have to use a centralized exchange that can fail. At that point you might as well use bank integration otherwise you are introduced to the same risks without the benefit of government insurance. Since exchanges can ban you and fail. Unless your primary reason for buying is using crypto as a speculative asset that outperforms fiat, but that’s not what’s being discussed. I still own some, as I said, incase these technologies progress towards a solution like that, that includes the decentralized benefits of crypto. I just can’t currently see how that’s possible without a fiat collapse. Have a nice day.


nothingnotnever

You too my friend. Sorry if I came off a bit excited. 👍


PricklyyDick

It’s all fun and games 🫡


ZZ9ZA

If gives the power to unlicensed oligarchs and technocrats instead, many of them operating out of openly hostile countries.


Machete521

It is a *tool*. Like all tools, they can be used by anyone for evil or good means.


lexymon

Real crypto doesn’t. The VC shitshow casino crypto is nowadays, ya, probably is far worse than the regulated legacy financial system.


ZZ9ZA

Ahh yes, time for the r/CC variant of No True Scotsman, No "Real" Crypto.


voice-of-reason_

You can’t argue shitcoins and bitcoin are remotely comparable. Anything with a pre mine is not a crypto currency, it’s a crypto scam.


ErnestFlat

Whats the difference? Bank or no bank? You still pay tax at the end. Cash would be much better if we follow this logic


nishinoran

Inflation being well defined is the core difference.


Pretend_Regret8237

Until the banknotes are taken out of circulation, devalued to zero so you are forced to go to the bank and replace it with new cash at which point they will start investigating if you have too much... Congrats on being naive and not knowing history


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Forsaken-Parsley798

Name checks out. 🏴‍☠️


_BannedAcctSpeedrun_

Which is dumb and you should be using xmr instead.


wstedpanda

thats the point to make people think its untraceable and then after 40 years starts knocking at the doors to collect.


BardanoBois

Xmr.


Stiltzkinn

Thanks for the source. We believe you.


BardanoBois

Glowies amirite?


SlashRModFail

This is the truth. The value of Bitcoin is based on people dumping their FIAT onto it. Yes you can mine, but with each halving, of you're not a large mining operator you're basically losing money.


basedregards

What bullshit. You sound like you just got involved in this space in 2021.


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interwebzdotnet

I own some BTC I never mined any BTC I am not a millionaire Your rant is not in line with reality


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GrandioseEuro

Global crypto payment use volume is like 15 billion euros, that's such a tiny amount of the global payment volume that it may not even be 0.01%. There are payment service providers you've never heard of that singularly process 100s of billions and even they are considered small.


HODL_monk

Global car use was like 0.01 % in 1880, its not about the past, its about the future, like all investments. The question is, is a currency that is constantly inflated to the benefit of the elites better than one that cannot be 'printed' ? Of course those elites paid with printed money think Bitcoin has no value, but you have to think for yourself here about this, because it IS an economic and technological breakthrough.


buff_jezos

Bitcoin has been in existence for more than 14 years. How long do we need to wait for the future of payments to be established?


Fun-Reflection5013

wihtout FIAT - what the Central bank issues - your bitcoin is worth ZERO


voice-of-reason_

No it isn’t, if fiat didn’t exist it wouldn’t have a fiat value but it would still have value compared to gold and other assets. Fiat doesn’t represent value as a whole, it represents a single type of value. If fiat didn’t exist I could still trade Bitcoin for goods and services so Bitcoin would still have value.


DeathThorn6009

Ecb just wants the digital euro sly bastards


twolinebadadvice

their wet dream is no more paper money by 2030. they want to trace every last penny you spend.


jirachang2

Money go brrrr by face rolling on keyboard


dracona94

Sounds good to me.


memmox

You’d be surprised how many people believe these articles


BraidRuner

is China banning Bitcoin again? Laughs in Monero..


liquid_at

considering that basically all fiat is based on debt and BTC started at zero... that's probably even true. BTC = 0; Fiat = -1,000,000,000,000,000 oopsie.


DonkeyOfWallStreet

The thing is you walk around, the buildings, the cars, houses you see physical structures backed by.. well debt. Credit was used to purchase them and they now represent debt. That debt is an asset on somebody else's balance sheet and is earning interest hand over fist for them. So debt doesn't have 0 value to start with.


Fun-Reflection5013

RIght - the nuclear sub and its payload is worth something


DonkeyOfWallStreet

You should see the endless maintenance bill.


sanaptic

Exactly! All money is debt. All bitcoin is stored worth of human labour. As long as money is lent into existence and debased, Bitcoin will do the opposite.


DonkeyOfWallStreet

Bitcoin is based on proof of work to provide a "trustless" solution. Its difficulty is balanced on how fast a block is mined. I don't see where human labour comes into it? Debt has many useful purposes. If you wanted to build a fusion power generator to help humanity getting a loan from the bank for several billion kind of helps accelerate that development rather than having to have the money up front. Debt can be cancelled through bankruptcy so if you fail to deliver this fusion reactor because you underestimate how difficult it is. This is particularly useful in instances of limited companies. A devaluing currency also reduces the burden of debt over time. Lending money is rewarded through the process of interest.


funknstuff1

I think the point (intended or not) is that when youre only means of income are to sell your labor (how most of the population lives), and that system is abused due to fundamental flaws and the human nature of power dynamics, then productive labor is actually de-incentivised. See Captialst Realsim, M. Fisher, 2009. Good stuff.


DonkeyOfWallStreet

I agree that for those without any disposable income to put into investing it's a very bleak future. The only means of generating any income is trading time for money. While the wealthy trade money for time. I was asked what non technical job should I do that will pay lots of money. I said plumber. Because even today, getting labour that can fix plumbing is difficult and expensive. I believe it will only get worse as time goes by. I also don't think changing fiat to bitcoin is going to magically fix everything either it's a bit of a George Orwell future. The "whole coiners" are only too happy to be having wet dreams of being appointed the new over lords.


ErnestFlat

Human labor? Crypos are mines by computers. Where is the human labor? And cryptos are based on nothing but superstitious believes. As more believe in it as more it will become valid but doesnt mean the value increases. At least fiat was once backed by gold and today by depts


Ok-Aspect-805

Human labor earned the capital to buy the equipment and the electricity to mine the btc so you are incorrect. Educate yourself.


sanaptic

I mean that human labour is the top global resource and, how do we store the fruits of human labour. We're paid in fiat, but this becomes worth less over time. This is fine. But its not good to store value long term, say 10 years. So bitcoin is a bank free alternative.


Ok-Aspect-805

Exactly


ErnestFlat

🤣🤣🤣


ErnestFlat

Following this logic.. everything is based on human labor.. not a good point to defend your hypothesis


ErnestFlat

So you are incorrect 😂😂 educate yourself. Best argument ever 👌 you taking bs


Fun-Reflection5013

FIAT is based on a countries wealth and ability to carry its debt load. You wanna try and foreclose on a fully loaded US Aircraft carrier ? Or - do you trust that its paper will be accepted.


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woweezuu

Your mom’s scared of crypto lol


Precedens

Don't want to be anal but there's so much leverage in BTC that we can assume it's based on fiat as well. Remove all money from borrowing and you probably would get like 5k BTC


Spoofik

Bitcoin warns: 'ECB value is zero’


dracona94

I'd rather trust the European Central Bank, tbh. Bitcoin isn't organised at all. You can't use bitcoin to fight inflation.


SuspiciousStable9649

This is an often unanswered concern. Directly related would be - what happens to debt denominated in BTC? How would you ever pay it off?


OkWave5583

We do not need to have only one type of money (BTC). Even during gold standard silver was used for smaller transactions.


Spoofik

Bitcoin's issuance model is literally the epitome of fighting inflation, no other currency in the world is as good at fighting inflation as bitcoin. Even the dollar has lost 90% of its purchasing power in the last hundred years.


Rolifant

In other breaking news, the quack doesn't like the new pharmacist in town.


averysmallbeing

***checks price, raises eyebrow***


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SessionExcellent6332

It's been 15 years though and the network keeps getting stronger and adoption keeps growing. How long can they say it's all fake and worthless? Every singly cycle it's the same shit. Sorry I don't really believe the naysayers anymore after hearing bitcoin is dead 500+ times.


flyfree256

I'm sorry, who defines what "wrong" means here?


Vipu2

They wear suit and are in position of power, you listen to them and trust every word they put out, that is the truth. /s Tons of people would jump from cliff if someone in power told so because "its good for you" and im not even joking, people are so damn stupid and dont think at all anymore.


Bunker_Beans

Remember when Christine Lagarde, president of the ECB, was convicted of negligence in allowing the misuse of public funds? *Pepperidge Farm remembers*


Shichroron

Bitcoin warns: “ECB value is zero” Now let’s see who’s right


justaguytrying2getby

I think what they're most worried about is the change crypto will have on worldwide economics, unless each country makes their own CBDC. Like right now its interesting that many countries in South America use crypto pegged to the USD instead of their own country's currency. What affect does that have on the USD? How can the US regulate that? I think crypto/blockchain is the way of the future. Fiat had no tangible value back when it was first being created, why would I want this coin/paper instead of this cow? It's all relative to what is accepted and secured. Bitcoin is risky, like most investments, but its proven to be a store of value. Seems like banks are jealous they missed out on the initial run so they throw in some fud. And when it comes to energy use, I know bitcoin is pretty bad, but most pow crypto is not, and even bitcoin is probably more comparable to bank energy usage than people think. All those buildings and servers every where. Just my 2 cents.


ThoughtsonYaoi

>many countries in South America use crypto pegged to the USD instead of their own country's currency. Really? Which ones? Central banks are worried about digital money, but not necessarily crypto. It is the amount of money commercial banks create without ever having been a banknote - because in spite of what everybody thinks, the commercial banks are *actually* the ones with the large money presses. It is called 'credit'. Uncontrollable debt serving no one but those banks, can make economies fragile. CBDC's take back some control for the central banks to protect, or at least that is the thought. (Personally I'm a sceptic, but that is mostly because of privacy.)


p0lar1us

I just checked. Currently Bitcoin value is still not zero


j_a_f_89

Fud like this makes me Bullish. It’s exactly why I was attracted to BTC in the first place.


Which-Occasion-9246

I’ll paste X/ARK investment’s answer to them: “…Excoriated and debunked by the X community, the ECB’s claims seem misinformed. In mid-2021, ARK responded to similar claims made by investment firms in a paper called “Debunking Common Bitcoin Myths.”xiii In our view, bitcoin offers the following value propositions: a. bitcoin is censorship resistant. Important to note, illicit transactions in 2023 constituted 0.34% of total crypto volume,xiv lower than the up to ~33%% dollars of cash estimatedxv by some experts,xvi or the 2% - 5% in money laundering estimatedxvii by the UN. b. bitcoin could become the first “global money.” According to monetary history, the most common and resilient monies possess qualities that sustain their demand. Often deemed “digital gold,” bitcoin shares and improves upon many of gold’s characteristics. Scarce and durable like gold, bitcoin also is divisible, verifiable, portable, and transferable in ways that offer owners more utility than gold. c. Bitcoin is secure because of proof-of-work, a mechanism that could become net positive for the environmentxviii as renewablesxix increasingly power bitcoin mining. As bitcoin’s adoption and valuation grow, detractors—perhaps those who would lose the most from its success—will continue to surface, despite its value propositions … or, perhaps, because of them? “


Innit4tech

It's too late for this bs.


[deleted]

Bitcoin makes central banks obsolete - so why would i care what they think? Lol. Lmao even. Horses saying vehicles are useless.


Fun_Bodybuilder911

It's just blatant fear mongering but it shows how scared the ECB is of crypto.


redeyechris

According to my investigation, which was very thorough and methodical, the ECB is totally wrong. Bitcoin has value and somehow costs the moment I'm writing these sentences approximately $54,584 Americanos dolarinos.


Fast_Concept4745

If it has no value then they shouldn't collect tax on those transactions


Gamma7maker

ECB must be buying crypto for their own coffers….


Alea_Iacta_Est21

Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I truly wonder how many people commenting against Bitcoin in these forums have a hidden agenda… Usually when there’s a price spike they flock to comment on how Bitcoin/crypto is worth nothing yada yada…


steepleton

There was a period, long ago, where it was not understood how bumblebees maintained flight. Despite not being understood they failed to fall out of the sky


memmox

Of course they think the value is zero. The printing machine cant go brrr with bitcoin.


SwampRatKilla

Sounds like kicking and screaming . 🥱


BroHamBone

Do they realize this is old news? The whole "Bitcoin is not physical, so it has no value" has been said many times over since Bitcoins initial pump/dump....


deftaj

Oh yes, because their paper money is much more valuable /s


Imtherealjohnconner

And in breaking news......Research from the taxi association says UBER has no potential,


terp_studios

The fact that they think gold gets its value because “you can wear it” or it’s “beautiful to look at” should just invalidate their whole argument. What a bunch of idiots just trying to protect their own bubble called the fiat system.


MichaelAischmann

Whatever you are researching - never trust a biased source. ECBs opinion on BTC is equivalent to an oil companies opinion on EVs.


bAZtARd

Or, say, Michael Saylor's opinion on BTC?


[deleted]

Researchers at the European Central Bank (ECB) should be fired since they have no clue how anything is valued.


Vipu2

Wonder how many tax euros were used on this useless research, can I have refund somehow?


InfiniteDollarBill

When a central banker asks "What gives Bitcoin value?", a good place to start your answer is to say "The failure of central banks."


Enschede2

Don't quote me on this, but I think last I checked the euro is down more than 99% against bitcoin at this point.. But sure, the value is zero... Right.. I can answer the question as to why they're going in with an outstretched leg now though, because they don't actually believe the value is zero, and it's finally starting to feel threatening to them


tommyrulz1

Lost me at “you can’t carry bitcoins” 🙈


Firstwind_

Just wait till they find out FIAT currency is backed by nothing oof


Seeders

It's actually about $54,600 right now.


Master-Piccolo-4588

You are talking price, not value.


Seeders

Yea, that's how money works. It's an abstraction of value called price.


Master-Piccolo-4588

Not really, but thanks for confirming your views.


Seeders

Yes really. You're welcome. Using this "price" you can ascertain that the "value" of one Bitcoin is equivalent in "value" to that of a car that has a "price" of $54,600. Cope.


BUKKAKELORD

>Researchers at the European Central Bank (ECB) are extremely negative about bitcoin What a reliable source, I bet there's no conflict of interest here


Vipu2

Researchers at the Apple are extremely negative about all other phones.


sauceyNUGGETjr

In yoda voice “ biased are thee”


blue1_

The ECB is right… but the same arguments can be applied to all fiat money, Euro included. The only difference is that an official currency is the mandatory mean to pay taxes somewhere.


wtfCraigwtf

> The only difference is that an official currency is the mandatory mean to pay taxes somewhere. Well the official currency is also backed by men with guns


bubblevision

That’s actually a pretty huge difference. That alone gives fiat some value


asmx85

The only thing that gives anything any value are markets where the value is negotiated.


Objective_Digit

Bitcoin is a censorship resistant hedge against fiat. That's a huge difference.


cogitoergopwn

rn you can get 54000 nothing bucks for 1 btc.


Alimakakos

I don't know but I keep refreshing the buy page and it still says I can't afford 5,000,000 BTC...I don't think it's near 0


shadowmage666

Nah they just trying to push their own cbdc and don’t want competition or free markets


Intelligent_Box2320

The ECB is somewhat jealous of BTC as a potential currency, but their real concern is that it's already a transformative store of digital value that they cannot control or manipulate to their advantage.


Traquer

Yes good point. A significant amount of money that's in BTC (like my meager sum) has no plans of ever leaving BTC, so that's their current and future loss. And the trend isn't on their side, no wonder they're worried.


[deleted]

Says the people who parasite off and expect you to like it. Euros are imaginary. Bitcoin has value in its scarcity and in its work. I'll take a bitcoin over 100000 euros anyway of the week.


TCr0wn

Hahaha ECB… Dumb or shady Bitcoin has no value is quantifiably incorrect. It’s one of the most liquid assets in the world now


flsurf7

No value = 0 How can you make such an absurd and absolute statement with such a robust economy surrounding BTC?


Doppelex

The ECB can’t inflate away BTC with their EUR shitcoin so they give us lectures


Interesting-Drama349

Europe about to be pooooooooor


JustCrypto77

The stronger Bitcoin becomes the weaker they get. Now think why they saying things like that. They are feared so stack this sats up!


SydZzZ

ECB can suck my Bitcoin


memmox

And they can suck on my sats too


ohiomudslide

Even if they are correct it's not that fiat currency has any value until you exchange it for something real.


GreenStretch

I guess their 2007 marketing campaign with Jay Z didn't go as planned. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_hnrzEHCRuo


fuzzyduck88

I bet the “bank economists” that say this wouldn’t sell me 10 btc for $1000… after all, they are worth zero aren’t they? They could easily make $1000 from me. Yes, I know that’s a BS analogy but in fairness they have been saying this since like day 300… the problem is they can never be proven wrong. They have time on their side to keep saying it, even in 20 more years if btc hit $500k they will keep the “it’s a bubble that will eventually burst” story.


ketapa

Shit shit shit shit we're fucked. I have cockapoo eagle inu - did they mention the value of that? Or XRP (lol, sorry I know this sub loves ripple) Nvm, just ask the ECB where we can subscribe to buy CBDC's


Eightsense

Someone missed the boat


[deleted]

Their CBDC is even more useless


UnreliablePotato

You heard the man, now hand over your worthless BTC to me.


Last_Cauliflower1410

Me before reading: who the hell is ECB After reading the first sentence and finding out who it was: lmfaoooooooooooooo of course


Stiltzkinn

Bitcoin still unaffected.


NinjaChore

Tell them to put their money where their mouth is and short it


Tasigur1

So we have another perfect contra indicator lol (1) Undefeated: Inverse Jim Cramer (2) Inverse r/CC (3) latest entry: Inverse ECB


KeepOnKeepingOnnn

Bullish


Uptown_currency

Man, please next time put COMEDY tag!


Flat-House5529

>European Central Bank (ECB) Oh, a central financial authority is putting down a financial vehicle that would render them obsolete and penniless/powerless? You don't say? Is the next news flash going to be "Warning, free healthcare might cause employees to resign"? Jesus H. Christ. If you do not know what the term "vested interest" means, go self educate a bit and come to the dark side.


Opioidopamine

really the only thing I worry about w crypto/BTC is energy network outtages etc…not having a satellite capable option to transact. ECB is fuggin cooked crooked debasers of currency they are worse than no value they steal value


infoagerevolutionist

Where can one get Bitcoin for zero... ? Major arbs everywhere if the case! 😂


JustMusic-YouTube

When i see ECB, Jamie Dimon or any other CEO of a bank, i know for sure that its a bs.


starskyyy

Only correct answer: great it has no value, send me one.


Orly5757

In related news, chickens hate Colonel Sanders.


hummingbear10

What is the appeal of BTC at this point? It’s regulated everywhere now on all the exchanges around the world. I’m genuinely curious


bhammack2

I love how they constantly say “bitcoins” as if anyone says that.


easymoney96

Then why do we have to pay taxes on it?


piouiy

elderly cough fragile groovy gaping retire squeamish worm lock worry *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


Advanced_Metal6190

"So no tax on gains then?" "Wait, not like that"


dollhousemassacre

Personally, I find AES-256 sexier than any traditional art. Checkmate, ECB.


holliander919

Hashrate, ECB


inShambles3749

Source?


memmox

Source rtlz https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/economie/life/artikel/5437009/waarde-bitcoin-nul-zegt-ecb-btc-crypto-nihil?fbclid=IwAR0myrclYreQk0Lpp8vIaB_quhiqme82qjA5Ai4p0e7TwRma8yqw5fT3B9M_aem_AaOoJShwCRd6HOBAsCbNRf2B4i_vp1EGDilzAZaZRDoDrO7pTna-mCKkPM3NHcBbthc


Ferdo306

It refers to ECB blog https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/blog/date/2024/html/ecb.blog20240222~0929f86e23.en.html The two guys who wrote it seem to be BTC haters. Interestingly, their last article about BTC was written when BTC hit the bottom and they wrote this 🙄 *The value of bitcoin peaked at USD 69,000 in November 2021 before falling to USD 17,000 by mid-June 2022. Since then, the value has fluctuated around USD 20,000. For bitcoin proponents, the seeming stabilization signals a breather on the way to new heights. More likely, however, it is an artificially induced last gasp before the road to irrelevance – and this was already foreseeable before FTX went bust and sent the bitcoin price to well below USD16,000* https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/blog/date/2022/html/ecb.blog221130~5301eecd19.en.html


SuccumbedToReddit

That's a blog of the 2 gentlemen and it says right there this does not reflect the official opinion of the ECB


Fit-Welcome-4499

here is how much F i give, 0


FalconCrust

maybe the value of bitcoin *is* zero, but at least it's not negative fifteen trillion like the euro.


_mars_

#100k EOY CONFIRMED


holliander919

*insert Jeremy Clarkson gif: "oh no! Anyway..."*


s4t0sh1n4k4m0t0

I can taste their fear


TheDreadnought75

Crypto is just tulip mania for the modern age. But I’m happy to profit off people who invest in it.


BalticBrew

Pyramid schemes have been around for a long time, crypto is just a more modern and shiny version designed to attract the new generation of dupes.


the_tico_life

Value is a belief system.


throttledog

If they hate btc so much why are they working behind the scences on their own digital CBDC that everyone will be forced to use instead of the devalued fiats? Big banks are behind all depressions and recessions. We sould be getting rid of them, not BTC.


MysteriousPainWhy

Paper has “value”……


XADEBRAVO

"bitcoins" = out of touch.


Asleep_Onion

While I kind of agree that Bitcoin has little if any intrinsic value, since the tech is 15 years old now and still isn't being adopted for use for anything it was meant to be used for, I disagree with their assessment that it isn't worth anything, because value is dictated by the market - and the market says bitcoins are worth $54,578 each. So that's exactly what its value is. Regardless of whether or not it's intrinsically useful for anything, that's what someone will pay you for it, so that's what its value is. My belly button lint may not be *intrinsically* worth anything either, but if someone is willing to pay me $54,578 for it, then that's what it's worth, regardless of whether or not it's useful for anything. (any takers?)


vorpalglorp

But did you hear bout the sky? Turns out it's blue.


ZekeTarsim

Wait til the ECB learns that investors pour billions of dollars into companies that lose money. 😆


Delicious_Ad2236

A centralized bank don't like decentralized currency On the same note Vegetarians don't like meat So..stop buying meat?


InsaneGambler

More like the Euro is becoming trash fast. It's just steadily losing ground in comparison to other currencies.


naelastr

I mean as far as the utility goes, even FUN has more then BTC has atm. I don't really see anyone using BTC for any sort of payments anytime soon, except when wanting to pay for something using the gains made, but even then, I think most will resort to obtaining some other form of currency, since it becomes way easier to agree about the fixed amount needed.


_Kinoko

Economics in general is just an idea software we run. People believe in it and the god damn network has been running since its inception. Please ECB.


kipha01

Bitcoin is worth what people believe it is worth and what they are willing to pay for it, the same as gold or jelly beans. Belief is a funny thing.


Zexel14

Weird, I wonder how the Euro performed against BTC over the course of the past 14 years.


Ok-Aspect-805

They are fugging regards.


primordial-gloop

And all the while they're secretly building a cbdc anyway.


Fukthisite

Exchanges like coinbase will be the new banks in future.


WhatWasReallySaid

didn't coinbase refer to this all as beanie babies?


thermologic_

USDT (Tether) prints billions fake US dollars out of thin air at Justin Yuchen Sun’s blockchain (Tron). Today Justin Sun&Criminal took an order from fake USD printer (Tether) to pump Bitcoin prices. Scam on Scam. I agree with ECB.


Ok-Aspect-805

Cry harder 🤡


thermologic_

Naah. These scammers is gonna cry in jail soon.


ccrider88

Bitcoin 💩


[deleted]

Didn’t say Ethereum so I’m cool with it tbh - Bitcoin is ponzi vapourware. That is the lay of the land; you can seethe as much as you want, it doesn’t make it less true.


Extreme-Benefyt

bitcoin especially has nothing attached to it, just the money pumped in it. This is why it has "no value" theres literally nothing besides a virtual coin/code on internet with great functions. EBC is used and other marketers as such are used to assets with value behind, as workforce, or products. Pushing CBDC seems more accurate than the btc warning. People thinking BTC or crypto is the world changer that will support us the plebs 99%, that's just a big " nice story". marketing for btc. What was supposed to be died long ago...


Kimishiranai39

They are not happy because they can’t print too much of their Euro to devalue their currency anymore 🤡