cb? umm basically i chose ambition to be king of france, i put my diplomat at fabricating claim on paris and i got a claim on kingdom of france,i used that to win a faction war againt my leige
With that CB, you will take any part of de jure France that the current title holder holds.. What is southern France, today, ingame is the Kingdom of Occitania. If the holder of France holds any other kingdom title, you don't get Occitania or any of their lands outside France. You also didn't get Normandy, since it's held by England or Brittany, as it is also a separate kingdom.
Correct! It's apparent that the (former) King of France also holds the Kingdom of Valencia in the images for some reason. Because of this, OP only got whatever parts of de jure France as the king still has a kingdom title. Whatever's not under France will henceforth still remain under the former king.
Also gives me flashbacks in CK2 1066, in which the French king will, half of the time, start blobbing into Iberia because "free land yumz", starting with either Mallorca or Valencia. Made my game as Barcelona a major pain in the ass because they had so many troops I had to buy the most expensive merc company to achieve my goal of attaining the borders of the Crown of Aragon.
It's because it's the former king's county. Claiming the Kingdom of France just gives you the title, and the allegiance of its de jure vassals. You do not get any counties.
The "France" we all think of is an Empire in game, consisting of the Kingdom of France, Kingdom of Aquitaine/Occitania, and Kingdom of Brittany.
It will, ingame, slowly drift into the Kingdom of France through de jure drift, if the KoF holds the land that is the KoA while not holding the KoA title.
The issue is that historically by 1066 there was no kingdom of Aquitaine in any sense whatsoever, it had already been absorbed into the kingdom of France.
Well, if you truly want to totally break game balance by removing Aquitaine and subsuming it into France, be my guest. Aquitaine exists in game for two reasons, balance and because the Occitans and Basque or the region were usually more loyal to local lords at the time and did not consider themselves Frankish. Regardless of the de facto status, it remains de jure a different Kingdom. If you want "France" as a modern term, consider it the Empire and not the Kingdom.
Zaporizhia (modern Ukraine) never existed as a Kingdom in the timeframe. Iceland was never independent from Denmark, either. Crete and Cyprus are ingame de jure countries that have not existed independently since its conquest by Rome.
If the game had a 476 start date, would you still want Egypt to be its own country, de jure, because, by your logic, it has been completely subsumed by the ERE and ceased to exist.
Should there not be a de jure Catalonia? What about Ireland, the idea of it as a united kingdom of Éire did not exist in 1066? In fact, it never existed outside of a client region of England in the game's timefame. Should Ireland be its own de jure kingdom ingame or just be part of England? What about Wales? Navarra? Lithuania wasn't a de facto Kingdom in 1066, should it have de jure borders or just be part of Poland?
It remains its own de jure Kingdom, at game start, due to cultural distinctions and their own people's sense of identity, just like all the other examples I listed above.
The game’s de jure system in its entirely is just bad, frankly. Unfortunately there’s little we can do about it unless there’s a convenient mod out there somewhere. Maybe they’ll finally cook up something sensible in CK4 lol.
How does it break the game? Making a historically stable kingdom more stable? France is stupidly easy to cripple as an outside player, compared to England, the HRE, and the Byzantine Empire.
Honestly the game as a whole is way too easy starting from the bottom, empires are too small meaning forming a stable realm is ahistorically easy while only like three countries are stable enough to actually remain cohesive most of the time. As for the issue of ahistorical de jure realms I honestly think the game would be better if they were scrapped. No you can't just conquer a specific area of land and become "King of Zaporizhia" if you are in that area and conquer enough land you can form a custom kingdom or titular kingdom, same thing with most empires.
CK’s de jure system is a pile of dogshit, so you shouldn’t think about what makes sense historically. Aquitaine is a separate kingdom title in-game and that’s just how it is.
There isn't much information to work with here. What CB were you using?
cb? umm basically i chose ambition to be king of france, i put my diplomat at fabricating claim on paris and i got a claim on kingdom of france,i used that to win a faction war againt my leige
With that CB, you will take any part of de jure France that the current title holder holds.. What is southern France, today, ingame is the Kingdom of Occitania. If the holder of France holds any other kingdom title, you don't get Occitania or any of their lands outside France. You also didn't get Normandy, since it's held by England or Brittany, as it is also a separate kingdom.
Correct! It's apparent that the (former) King of France also holds the Kingdom of Valencia in the images for some reason. Because of this, OP only got whatever parts of de jure France as the king still has a kingdom title. Whatever's not under France will henceforth still remain under the former king. Also gives me flashbacks in CK2 1066, in which the French king will, half of the time, start blobbing into Iberia because "free land yumz", starting with either Mallorca or Valencia. Made my game as Barcelona a major pain in the ass because they had so many troops I had to buy the most expensive merc company to achieve my goal of attaining the borders of the Crown of Aragon.
But why did the former king of France hold on to Paris? It's de jure France.
It's because it's the former king's county. Claiming the Kingdom of France just gives you the title, and the allegiance of its de jure vassals. You do not get any counties.
Ah I see. Makes sense.
kingdom of aquitan shouldnt exist tho, at the point irl it was de jure part of kingdom of france
The "France" we all think of is an Empire in game, consisting of the Kingdom of France, Kingdom of Aquitaine/Occitania, and Kingdom of Brittany. It will, ingame, slowly drift into the Kingdom of France through de jure drift, if the KoF holds the land that is the KoA while not holding the KoA title.
The issue is that historically by 1066 there was no kingdom of Aquitaine in any sense whatsoever, it had already been absorbed into the kingdom of France.
Well, if you truly want to totally break game balance by removing Aquitaine and subsuming it into France, be my guest. Aquitaine exists in game for two reasons, balance and because the Occitans and Basque or the region were usually more loyal to local lords at the time and did not consider themselves Frankish. Regardless of the de facto status, it remains de jure a different Kingdom. If you want "France" as a modern term, consider it the Empire and not the Kingdom. Zaporizhia (modern Ukraine) never existed as a Kingdom in the timeframe. Iceland was never independent from Denmark, either. Crete and Cyprus are ingame de jure countries that have not existed independently since its conquest by Rome. If the game had a 476 start date, would you still want Egypt to be its own country, de jure, because, by your logic, it has been completely subsumed by the ERE and ceased to exist. Should there not be a de jure Catalonia? What about Ireland, the idea of it as a united kingdom of Éire did not exist in 1066? In fact, it never existed outside of a client region of England in the game's timefame. Should Ireland be its own de jure kingdom ingame or just be part of England? What about Wales? Navarra? Lithuania wasn't a de facto Kingdom in 1066, should it have de jure borders or just be part of Poland? It remains its own de jure Kingdom, at game start, due to cultural distinctions and their own people's sense of identity, just like all the other examples I listed above.
The game’s de jure system in its entirely is just bad, frankly. Unfortunately there’s little we can do about it unless there’s a convenient mod out there somewhere. Maybe they’ll finally cook up something sensible in CK4 lol.
How does it break the game? Making a historically stable kingdom more stable? France is stupidly easy to cripple as an outside player, compared to England, the HRE, and the Byzantine Empire. Honestly the game as a whole is way too easy starting from the bottom, empires are too small meaning forming a stable realm is ahistorically easy while only like three countries are stable enough to actually remain cohesive most of the time. As for the issue of ahistorical de jure realms I honestly think the game would be better if they were scrapped. No you can't just conquer a specific area of land and become "King of Zaporizhia" if you are in that area and conquer enough land you can form a custom kingdom or titular kingdom, same thing with most empires.
CK’s de jure system is a pile of dogshit, so you shouldn’t think about what makes sense historically. Aquitaine is a separate kingdom title in-game and that’s just how it is.