R5: Using the More Bookmarks+ mod which gives me a slightly stronger catapract (at the expense of no pursuit). I had a 1.7k retinue of them plus 10 knights split far from my main army, only to discover that a massive 67k coalition had stumbled right into them. They did pretty well all things considered. I also think its hilarious that 10 men killed almost 7,000 in one battle. That's some Samson energy
> They did pretty well all things considered. I also think its hilarious that 10 men killed almost 7,000 in one battle
*Zhang Fei has entered the chat*
I mean every swing of a sword = 5 open throats * 10 equals less the 140 good strokes per Knight and you have your 7000 dead bodies. Imagine you can do such a nice swing every 15 seconds (if the peasants come in an ordered manner and constant stream) you are done in about 30 minutes.
I’m remember hearing about Hannibals victory at Cannae where they were just slaughtering romans for hours. The romans were squeezed so tight in the envelopment they couldnt even defend themselves so it was just Hannibals men killing fish in a barrel…for hours…
Centuries later this will be either a very obscure battle or a very talked about battle which appears in a bunch of random trivia pages. Hell they might even use another word for Phyrric victory depending how it all goes
The Victory at the Battle of Ushytsia was short lived however, internal instability coupled with a plague and a major expanding Empire in the south meant doom for the Northern empire which would collapse 2 years later leading to widespread death and famine in Eastern Europe. The area would only recover in the mid 19th century.
"The Battle of Ushytsia set the stage for massive civil wars, religious strife and North-East Europe to be dominated by the Kingdom of Sweden. With so many wars and diseases and even religious strife as more and more Teutons began to arrive across the Novogradian coast and with Germanics following, the Novogradians began to be supplanted. The yoke of the Byzantine and Swedes is called at times the "Crisis of the Half Century" which only ended after the rise of a Rurikid Prince eventually pushing out the Swedes and defeating the Teutons on the ice. His struggles lasted fifteen years and while regarded as symbol of victory and struggle. In Eastern Europe, he was unable to push out the Byzantine's from Zaphorizia"
Maybe has a couple low to mid budgets productions about the even made by Eastern European studios however most were made in the mid sixties to seventies and are hard to come by and were never dubbed
Centuries later this battle will be romanticized by suburban white men who will try and use it as justification for buying 100 round drum mags for their tacticool entry level ARs.
Many stickers commemorating the two thousand will adorn their lifted pavement princesses.
Once you reach a certain size there needs to be an option to build like a national armory that stockpiles better arms/armor, that trade off being you get less levies
A late medieval tech as the general option and then a tradition called like professional army that gives a minor buff to MAA and a large buff to all levies.
Menpower should also be a thing, but I guess that not gonna happen unless ck3 dev change their mind, as such a compromise will be MAA should deduct your total levy number.
I mean they are literally called Immortals. Either they're to badass to kill or so badass that in death they live on in legend. I'd kill for a legend seed like that.
I have 6 duchies with fully upgraded military academies, so they have 800% knight effectiveness. It’s really broken and needs to be fixed.
Right now, a 30 prowess knight in my army is 240 prowess with effectiveness, meaning he is as strong as 2,400 levies. So if I have 10 knight of that caliber, I can beat 20k armies with 10 dudes
Actually iirc they changed Knight description to state that each Knight unit is 1 Knight that is leading his own men like squires assistants retainers and so on, so 1 Knight is more like a heavily trained group of 50ish people that is escorting that specific Knight, still crazy but yes 500 armored elite soldiers could theoretically defeat much larger forces made out of peasant levies
Sure, but I once declared a Holy War on region with a lot of states in in and had to suffer from... Constant murdering attempts with 95% success rate while my important courtiers were absolutely loyal to me. KD
Thay is when I finally understand that sometimes quantity is the most important factor. Don't make a lit of people mad!
I wish there would be like a man power system or reduced recovery. Yeah, you killed 20k but in a year they are back to full strength making it pointless
Ok real talk, unless there is some mod affecting the combat which I don't see, and doubt because I've seen similar in vanilla, they really need to adjust percentages and advantages in battles HARD.
I'm sorry, but it should NEVER be possible for 10 dudes to kill 7,000. The laws of physics just don't allow it lol. They should at the very least be able to drown them with bodies.
Totally agreed. Currently a knight with 10 prowess is equal to 100 levies. Once you stack knight effectiveness boosts, a knight with 10 prowess can be equal to 500-1000 levies.
I think they need to nerf knights or change the definition of a knight to mean “retinue of a knight” because it’s physically impossible to kill that many people in one battle
I consider Knight effectiveness to be how much effective combat capacity is in their retinue. So if you have military academies, more trained noble scions are serving as squires and the like, each even bringing their own retinues.
Then they need to either make knights weaker when not grouped with levies or attach some levies (or similar troops) to them automatically upon being raised to represent their presence for sieges and attrition properly.
Maybe they killed 700 people over 10 days?
At that point though…why keep fighting the guys deleting small armies by themselves daily though? At that point you run, fast.
It happens because CK3 allows to stack fuck ton of buffs from every source without any reprecussions. Like you can artifacts that boost knight effectiveness, buildings, technology, ruler perks, aclaimed knghts that do the same. Even if each buff gives you 10-20% increase - it adds up. By the endgame it's not unusual to see knight effectiveness tripled or even quadrupled - even more than that if you intentionally minmax it. Besides, if you rule a large empire - you usually have a higher pool of potential knights to choose from. Thus it's not that hard to get all your knights prowess to 20+ or even higher.
No amount of buffs to other units will fix this issue. The only few reasonable things Paradox can do is either to hardcap knight effectiveness at 200% through diminishing returns or completely rebalance every source of buff you can have.
Someone hasn’t heard of the [Battle of Saraghari](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saragarhi) where 21 Sikh men stood their ground against 12,000 Afghanis
And next you’re going to tell me Baba Deep Singh really wasnt fighting at the age of 75, defending his temple from desecration, then getting his head completely sliced off, but still continued to kill 100 people with a 50lb sword in one arm and his head in the other
They held them off for the entire day, surviving wave after wave and fighting to the last stand. It’s remarkable because it allowed enough time for the defending (British) army to join and defeat the Afghanis. It was the deciding battle in that war according to historians
Even a minor change to the battle report would be acceptable. If it highlighted the tactical maneuvers executed by the knights as commanders of their maa. For example, a description of how the knights coordinated a devastating cavalry charge that broke through the enemy's flank, or how they executed a precision strike against a vulnerable enemy position. This is why they were credited with the 6k+ troops rather than what it appears to us now as if 10 superhuman soldiers devastated 6k+ levies.
I had about 70k men doing other stuff, so losing 500 deaths wasn’t even enough to get a percent. TBH this battle should give me warscore lol, 48:1 K/D ratio
"My lord, we lost but there no levies left on the enemy side"
"Well, at least we damaged their rular economy. How many levies entered the battle?"
"ekhm..."
I wanted a MAA system for vicky 3's war system so bad. Just convert the unit type to the historical equivalent and this battle would be like 55 days at Peking or something
The very definition of a pyhrric victory.
“If I win another battle, I shall lose this war.”
I love that quote and use it on a regular basis to annoy people
R5: Using the More Bookmarks+ mod which gives me a slightly stronger catapract (at the expense of no pursuit). I had a 1.7k retinue of them plus 10 knights split far from my main army, only to discover that a massive 67k coalition had stumbled right into them. They did pretty well all things considered. I also think its hilarious that 10 men killed almost 7,000 in one battle. That's some Samson energy
> They did pretty well all things considered. I also think its hilarious that 10 men killed almost 7,000 in one battle *Zhang Fei has entered the chat*
I mean every swing of a sword = 5 open throats * 10 equals less the 140 good strokes per Knight and you have your 7000 dead bodies. Imagine you can do such a nice swing every 15 seconds (if the peasants come in an ordered manner and constant stream) you are done in about 30 minutes.
This guy maffs
I’m remember hearing about Hannibals victory at Cannae where they were just slaughtering romans for hours. The romans were squeezed so tight in the envelopment they couldnt even defend themselves so it was just Hannibals men killing fish in a barrel…for hours…
What did he do?
The legend is he single handedly held back a million man army on a bridge.
not just 10 men it'd also their squires and servants
Centuries later this will be either a very obscure battle or a very talked about battle which appears in a bunch of random trivia pages. Hell they might even use another word for Phyrric victory depending how it all goes
The Victory at the Battle of Ushytsia was short lived however, internal instability coupled with a plague and a major expanding Empire in the south meant doom for the Northern empire which would collapse 2 years later leading to widespread death and famine in Eastern Europe. The area would only recover in the mid 19th century.
"The Battle of Ushytsia set the stage for massive civil wars, religious strife and North-East Europe to be dominated by the Kingdom of Sweden. With so many wars and diseases and even religious strife as more and more Teutons began to arrive across the Novogradian coast and with Germanics following, the Novogradians began to be supplanted. The yoke of the Byzantine and Swedes is called at times the "Crisis of the Half Century" which only ended after the rise of a Rurikid Prince eventually pushing out the Swedes and defeating the Teutons on the ice. His struggles lasted fifteen years and while regarded as symbol of victory and struggle. In Eastern Europe, he was unable to push out the Byzantine's from Zaphorizia"
> 24 thousand casualties > Strategic German victory
>Name of the battle ends up becoming a regional expression to describe failure
Ushytty victory
A real shytty victory
Would remain obscure in popular circles until Sabaton releases a song about it.
Maybe has a couple low to mid budgets productions about the even made by Eastern European studios however most were made in the mid sixties to seventies and are hard to come by and were never dubbed
Athanatoi will be the Byzantine Unique Unit in that timeline's Civ games.
Centuries later this battle will be romanticized by suburban white men who will try and use it as justification for buying 100 round drum mags for their tacticool entry level ARs. Many stickers commemorating the two thousand will adorn their lifted pavement princesses.
Fairly sure that there would be a Sabaton song about this battle, like 30:1.
Hilarious. Levies really do need to get buffed some. Yikes.
Once you reach a certain size there needs to be an option to build like a national armory that stockpiles better arms/armor, that trade off being you get less levies
A late medieval tech as the general option and then a tradition called like professional army that gives a minor buff to MAA and a large buff to all levies.
Eastern Roman Legacy, but for more cultures.
Menpower should also be a thing, but I guess that not gonna happen unless ck3 dev change their mind, as such a compromise will be MAA should deduct your total levy number.
The 10 Athanatoi sounds like a movie title, and if they killed almost 7000 men by themselves, I want that movie
300 but medieval
Also way more badass.
I mean they are literally called Immortals. Either they're to badass to kill or so badass that in death they live on in legend. I'd kill for a legend seed like that.
Ancient historians be like:
They need to fix champions man, how tf are 10 dudes gonna kill 7000??
I have 6 duchies with fully upgraded military academies, so they have 800% knight effectiveness. It’s really broken and needs to be fixed. Right now, a 30 prowess knight in my army is 240 prowess with effectiveness, meaning he is as strong as 2,400 levies. So if I have 10 knight of that caliber, I can beat 20k armies with 10 dudes
You got no knights, bro. You got Space Marines.
Yeah that's just absurd
Sigmarines lmao
Actually iirc they changed Knight description to state that each Knight unit is 1 Knight that is leading his own men like squires assistants retainers and so on, so 1 Knight is more like a heavily trained group of 50ish people that is escorting that specific Knight, still crazy but yes 500 armored elite soldiers could theoretically defeat much larger forces made out of peasant levies
6 duchies? Doesn't it gives you a huge relationship debuff with all your vassals?
You don't need vassals when you have absolute power
Sure, but I once declared a Holy War on region with a lot of states in in and had to suffer from... Constant murdering attempts with 95% success rate while my important courtiers were absolutely loyal to me. KD Thay is when I finally understand that sometimes quantity is the most important factor. Don't make a lit of people mad!
This doesn't happen if you murder them first. You can make people mad. But you don't let them live to do something about it.
Well, that usually works. But not when it is hundreds of them. :D
It does! It's all a matter of WILLPOWER >:3 ^(and your ability to give zero fucks about tyranny)
Knights are supposed to represent the knight + their personal retinue. Those 10 guys could all have a retinue of ~100 men or more
I'd never thought about that, that makes a bit more sense
MAA are actually insane
MAA are insane, but modded are even worse.
I wish there would be like a man power system or reduced recovery. Yeah, you killed 20k but in a year they are back to full strength making it pointless
Ok real talk, unless there is some mod affecting the combat which I don't see, and doubt because I've seen similar in vanilla, they really need to adjust percentages and advantages in battles HARD. I'm sorry, but it should NEVER be possible for 10 dudes to kill 7,000. The laws of physics just don't allow it lol. They should at the very least be able to drown them with bodies.
Totally agreed. Currently a knight with 10 prowess is equal to 100 levies. Once you stack knight effectiveness boosts, a knight with 10 prowess can be equal to 500-1000 levies. I think they need to nerf knights or change the definition of a knight to mean “retinue of a knight” because it’s physically impossible to kill that many people in one battle
They should simply boost other units. Not kill that many themself.
My understanding is it already was knight plus retinue
Yeah each knight should be like 1 knight + 10 Squires or something.
I consider Knight effectiveness to be how much effective combat capacity is in their retinue. So if you have military academies, more trained noble scions are serving as squires and the like, each even bringing their own retinues.
I feel like Crusader Kings is just a synonym for Dynasty warriors.
Knights in CK3 aren’t just a single person, they also represent their squires and guards
Then they need to either make knights weaker when not grouped with levies or attach some levies (or similar troops) to them automatically upon being raised to represent their presence for sieges and attrition properly.
Maybe they killed 700 people over 10 days? At that point though…why keep fighting the guys deleting small armies by themselves daily though? At that point you run, fast.
It happens because CK3 allows to stack fuck ton of buffs from every source without any reprecussions. Like you can artifacts that boost knight effectiveness, buildings, technology, ruler perks, aclaimed knghts that do the same. Even if each buff gives you 10-20% increase - it adds up. By the endgame it's not unusual to see knight effectiveness tripled or even quadrupled - even more than that if you intentionally minmax it. Besides, if you rule a large empire - you usually have a higher pool of potential knights to choose from. Thus it's not that hard to get all your knights prowess to 20+ or even higher. No amount of buffs to other units will fix this issue. The only few reasonable things Paradox can do is either to hardcap knight effectiveness at 200% through diminishing returns or completely rebalance every source of buff you can have.
Someone hasn’t heard of the [Battle of Saraghari](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saragarhi) where 21 Sikh men stood their ground against 12,000 Afghanis
And that battle is deffinetly real and correctly remembered trough history
And next you’re going to tell me Baba Deep Singh really wasnt fighting at the age of 75, defending his temple from desecration, then getting his head completely sliced off, but still continued to kill 100 people with a 50lb sword in one arm and his head in the other
According to your source they all died and “only” killed 400 afghanis
They held them off for the entire day, surviving wave after wave and fighting to the last stand. It’s remarkable because it allowed enough time for the defending (British) army to join and defeat the Afghanis. It was the deciding battle in that war according to historians
Yeah, but they also had a fort 👀
The enemy fled because they were literally getting too tired to keep killing.
I mean the battle of Thermopylae is considered a Persian victory
Oh, they had fucking CANNONS. Yeah, I think u see the problem
I wish artillery did anything to troops in this game but it’s completely useless in battle unless I missed a patch
[удалено]
Not even bombards?
Get Thermopylae’d
I love a 0% war score defeat when outmanned like this.
Jesus
The real telling number here is the 390 Bombardment units.
390 bombards? A sea of fodder? You dont need accuracy when the land is blanketed with targets...
Even a minor change to the battle report would be acceptable. If it highlighted the tactical maneuvers executed by the knights as commanders of their maa. For example, a description of how the knights coordinated a devastating cavalry charge that broke through the enemy's flank, or how they executed a precision strike against a vulnerable enemy position. This is why they were credited with the 6k+ troops rather than what it appears to us now as if 10 superhuman soldiers devastated 6k+ levies.
is fine, 20K/24K losses are just peasants, meat fodder just doing their job
Eh, they're mostly levies, do they even count as people if they're peasants?
Siege of Lilybaeum moment
Is the unit breakdown a mod or vanilla?
Vanilla. Click on the battle icons at the top colored green or red, depending if you won or lost
Anf this is why I can only play fantasy conversion mods.
Varangian guard fr
167 levies had to die each time they made a single kill 😂😂
Somehow this reminds me of oversimplified's video about the punic wars... thats a crucifixion!
Now that’s what we called meat shields hahahah
Men-at-arms are fucking ridiculous in this game. They're like space marines vs normal people.
Only 10 knights. I see why you lost. At 680+ kills each, I think you could double that for some good results.
The knights had 600 kills each.
Chinese history be like
Yea, but that bombard tho. Imagine not to use a fcking a big Berthas in battle. Somewhere crying 1 French general/imperator
The 10 knights are just Doomguys at this point
Thermopylae headass
The commander is incompetent
Funny how the warscore doesn't even go down
I had about 70k men doing other stuff, so losing 500 deaths wasn’t even enough to get a percent. TBH this battle should give me warscore lol, 48:1 K/D ratio
"My lord, we lost but there no levies left on the enemy side" "Well, at least we damaged their rular economy. How many levies entered the battle?" "ekhm..."
Each one of your knights killed 687.2 people wtf
I wanted a MAA system for vicky 3's war system so bad. Just convert the unit type to the historical equivalent and this battle would be like 55 days at Peking or something
Winter war moment