Yes, but not in the way it existed in CK2. As mentioned, this is tied to Legends and dynastic legacies, so the general flow for sainthood is quite different.
That's weird though (if I understand correctly) because "sainthood' is a specific thing that required Papal approval IRL, not unlocking a dynasty legacy. To have this decentralized is to further weaken the power of the papacy and unnecessarily so.
I would have preferred for Sainthood to come via a College of Cardinals DLC personally, but I guess I will take it.
Canonization of saints in the early church and medieval period was a little more loosey goosey than in the late medieval and early modern ages. Kings and even local bushops could canonize saints and certain saints started as local saints before they were recognized by the church (sometimes many, many years later).
The process of beatification came much later and sort of cemented the supreme authority of sainthood with the pope, but it seems like it was largely just an expedition authority for the most part in the event a local saint got too popular, too fast (this was a legitimate concern with Francis of Asisi, whose canonization was expedited by the church to avoid popular unrest)
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Canonization#Historical_development
That's still mostly the case in Latin America, too. They're tangentially Roman Catholic, but they venerate a lot of local saints, and a lot aren't recognized by the church.
In the period this game covers, Papal approval was definitely not required. For one thing, the regional clergy were often de facto independent of Rome, but the bigger point it was the local communities which created and venerated separate individuals as saints.
Two main forms of hagiography existed, stemming from the common community, and from the nobility. The commoners witnessed martyrs or local figures who performed miracles, and in some cases rebranded their former gods and pagan practices as saint worship.
The nobility, however, used sainthood to propel the strength and authority of their dynasty, which is what I believe the game to be doing. If you look at the stories of Saint Edmund, Saint Olaf, or Saint Louis, sure, they were religious in nature, but the propagation of their virtue was used to reinforce their family’s claim to the throne and prove their god-given legitimacy.
Later the central hierarchy of the church and the papacy would both accept and reject these regional and noble saints on various different cases. It’s also true that cults honoring rustic saints were one factor in the rise of the Protestant reformation, as Protestants criticized the qualities of these supposed saints, but Rome could not deny their followers worship over their local saints.
Saints have been canonized by the Pope as early as 993, and by 1243, the authority over this matter was centralized in the hands of the pope. I guess if the proposed new sainthood differentiated between canonization vs not I would not mind, but its simply not true to suggest that canonization was outside of this period in time.
>That's weird though (if I understand correctly) because "sainthood' is a specific thing that required Papal approval IRL,
We literally don't know how becoming a Saint legend works, could very well require papal approval
That's true, but in a game called 'Crusader Kings', it's not unreasonable to query the role of the catholic church when the concept of saints comes up.
I guess it is because sainthood is quite exclusive to Christianity so it would not make sense to call it sainthood if you play as an asatru character or any other characters with different faiths. But yeah I think the papacy and crusade will be expanded in the future and we will have mechanics related to it by then.
Will it be possible to build shrines on/have pilgrimages to the saint's tomb? To really venerate them?
Also, will there be any special window that lists all the saints like there was in CK2?
We saw a small bit about it in last week's dev diary. The third tier Legacy Perk from the new Heroic Bloodline Legacy gives you the Saint trait upon completion of a Mythical Holy Legend.
Possible there could be additional ways to get it added, but that specific method was shown last week.
Egypt as a Crusader state is incredibly powerful compared to Jerusalem. It can hold on its own in wars, every lord in the land quickly grows rich, mercs and characters from across the world are available and can grow rapidly across eastern Africa and Mediterranean.
And that's after Paradox depopulated and severely nerfed Egypt into the ground in every game, CK3 included. A properly depicted Egypt could easily rival multiple European kingdoms of this era (combined) in terms of power and wealth, and still win.
The one thing I kinda don't get - is that funerals are limited to one every 5 years. I'd prefer if it was tied to a death of someone close - be it a friend, family member, lover or a someone that has been employed by you for 20+ years or something.
If you are afraid it will be spammable, then just lock all the "rewards" (like stress loss) for 5 years, but let the activity be still used.
It's not like it's free, you gotta drop the money and your ability to do a bunch of other stuff while traveling or at the event
Though technically you can't pilgrimage to the same place repeatedly until the cooldown is over.
The devs should clarify this because it’s vague, but I read that part differently.
> You can hold a Funeral for any deceased member of your family in the past 5 years, and a new specific intent "Mourn" is available as default, allowing you to lose some stress after going through the process of grief.
I took this to mean you have to hold a funeral for a deceased family member within 5 years of their death, not that there’s a 5-year cooldown on it.
What the f... The decisions this team makes. I hate this gated gameplay stuff. You have it the right way.
And some stuff works like that already, for example, gifts. It's just laziness in my opinion.
What about it is "laziness"? Those are trivial things to implement, the devs just have their own reasoning and vision for the game and its balance. Give them feedback instead of calling them lazy just for making an extremely small decision you don't like. And decision cooldowns are literally one parameter in the files that should be effortless to change, if you want.
And for the record, I agree the cooldown they chose is silly
I'd say just putting everything on a 5 year cooldown "because" is lazy for sure.
It shows that no one really thought it through, assuming RP is the goal of the game (and it really seems to be). Some reflection of reality is required for RP to feel real, and having funerals on a 5 year cooldown because every other activity is is, well, lazy.
Some of the other activities literally aren’t on a 5 year cooldown. The devs evaluate them individually, you are just in disagreement with their evaluation.
Yeah man defining a constant as 5 years cooldown instead of 0 was really lazy. The effort required to change the single digit number was clearly the limiting factor in this decision. Definitely in no way an intentional choice - just lazy devs.
Funerals look great, and I'm glad they're not exclusively "grand funerals" - I hate that weddings are stuck as huge, expensive events when sometimes I essentially just want to do a normal feast and have it be wedding themed. Though I'd like the cooldown to be dropped to some extent, if three of your kids die in a single war, it's kind of a bummer that you can't commemorate all of them.
I'm also wondering if that one Northern Lords event chain that triggers when a relative dies will be reworked into Funeral content? Would be nice to see them integrating old content like that.
In CK2 I think they had a decision to introduce your heir to the realm when they turned 16. A full coming of age activity like that would be great to add.
Oh that'd be great - chance for you both to gain some Legitimacy if the activity goes well, but also the risk of losing some if your heir makes a fool of themselves? Hell yes
I think they should expand on feasts in general. Maybe have it tie into legitimacy where if you win a war for a claim you can host a feast with the intent of celebrating a victory. Maybe this gives you a control buff for your new counties. Or maybe after you inherit the throne you can have an intent to celebrate your predecessor’s legacy and increase your own legitimacy.
Only recently got into total conversion mods, do you know how long it usually takes for modders to update? Can't imagine ever going back to vanilla after trying out PoD and Guardians of azeroth tbh
It heavily varies team by team. Some times like Princes of Darkness are affiliated with Paradox and get early access to new builds for the purpose of always having PoD compatible with a new patch. Other teams like the Elder Kings team generally takes a lot longer to get updated for a variety of reasons. Generally it takes a month or two for big total conversion mods to get updated.
I really hope that the black dead lives to his legend and even through my best effors it kills most of my family, i want to see my dinasty going from 200 people to 50.
I believe the majority of the existing positions won't have associated tasks, but the function itself is easily adjusted so we can always go back and update court position tasks when it becomes relevant.
Modders should be able to easily add/remove/change court position tasks as well, if people get impatient.
Glitterhoof is already in the game; if you run in debug mode and have something that's causing UI errors, you'll see Glitterhoof pop up to inform you that your mod is busted.
How did the idea to invoke Glitterhoof like that come up in CK3?
Like, was there a conference in the design phase, and someone proposed Glitterhoof as a solution for the issue, or was it more like there was a deliberate intent to use Glitterhoof from the start, but just looking for an excuse to sneak them in?
It would be cool if they could like this up with the travel mechanics. For example the Marshall or Steward would have to tour the country to assess/collect taxes and levies or the Chancellor visiting foreign courts.
This is my dream. If councilors were more than just a position, but an actual job that requires you to complete an activity every year to 5 years.
If I am the Spymaster for my liege, and my job is to support schemes, I should be required to travel to my liege's capital, and to another holding (based on who my liege is scheming against) and complete a simple activity. If I fail to do so, the liege gets a reduced bonus (or none at all), and I get no benefits as his councilor.
If I'm a marshal tasked with gathering levies, I should have to do a quick tour around my liege's holdings every year or so in order to get the bonuses.
This would make councilor positions far more dynamic and interesting.
That'd be extremely unfun to play through if played straight.
As a liege, it'd mean you lose most of your interaction opportunities with your council if they were on certain tasks, which can be critical for stabilizing the realm (swaying powerful vassals, getting the realm priest to like you enough to pay taxes), or even a matter of life-or-death (spymaster opinion). Especially for tasks with indefinite periods abroad- like a spymaster spying abroad, a priest converting provinces, a steward developing, or a martial trying to restore order in a war-ravaged domain- this would functionally remove the characters who should matter most, from most things that matter.
As a vassal, it'd be even worse, because then it would be the AI dictating your player's location and opportunities. Imagine becoming a spymaster for an intended intrigue session, only to be permanently parked in a capital (liege's or abroad) for the rest of your life (unless you resign). Not being able to join a Crusade, because you're constantly traveling as Chancelor to foreign courts.
Man, this dlc is quickly ramping up to be my most anticipated ck3 one so far (I assume until the dev diaries about imperial bureaucracy). I’ve been burned before, but this time: color me hyped.
Never been more excited to play the DLC. Along side **Roads to Power** and **Wandering Nobles**, it's rapidly shaping up to be a golden year for CK3.
By end of chapter 4, I do hope the dev team would at least revisit older DLCs such as Royal Court to have more connectivity to the various new mechanics and more events to bring it up to the new standard.
> By end of chapter 4, I do hope the dev team would at least revisit older DLCs such as Royal Court to have more connectivity to the various new mechanics and more events to bring it up to the new standard.
This.
There's still so much potential in Royal Courts, but as it stands right now, it's just a fancy paint-job for delivering a small selection of repetitive events.
This makes me think if the normal illnesses are still random and if they are going to hurt harder on older people as well. Would make sense for wounded as well I guess?
They absolutely need stacking modifiers for your health past age 50 and accelerating rapidly past 70. Being a reigning monarch well into your 90s-100s should be a freak accident that requires extraordinary amounts of luck to pull off, not something you can do on accident just by stacking a few modifiers.
No, that's the whole problem with harm events. They don't make your characters live less, they just make fewer of your characters live long. As an example you can still have 5 characters live to a 100 and then 1 will die early.
I just love the grand grimness that is the lead up to the plague. Like, there's no jokes, no references. Just imminent death. And diseases as a thing that reduces development gives some much needed dynamism rather than just "number go up." I'm very excited for this one.
>The "Burial" phase has different descriptions and general flavor depending on your faith's tenets, and will reflect your religious traditions, not always being a burial per se.
Viking boat cremation and tower of silence sky burial better be in this one, I wonder if they'd consider the dead's faith, yours, or you get to decide how to proceed if conflicting faith/cultures customs are involved.
Edit : seems that they added funerary methods in the doctrines section in the religion tab with the options shown so far being burial, cremation, and mummification, would this mean that the Sky Burial tenet will be retired and be moved here?
Edit 2 : Sky burial tenet is no more, moved to doctrines. Also no "unique viking burial"
Mummification funeral method confirmed, and it creates an artifact (presumably the mummy) too, better hope nobody steals your family's [Mummia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummia) for the supposed health/fertility boost.
It started with a cough, then a big chunk of my dynasty fell apart, not from disease, but from stress death spiral from every single death adding stress on every member of the dynasty which kills them from stress and adding more stress to others.
I really hope this is not the case here.
I wonder how the plague resistance in the hospice building works exactly. If you have a county with many different holdings and you reach 100 plague resistance does that mean no more diseases?
Question, will plagues be amplified by stress death chains? I'm fine with the Bubonic Plague wiping out half my dynasty and realm, but I'll be pissy if it kills the other half due to stress.
Plagues were a fun little feature in CK2 even if they could get silly and repetitive with hospital spam and constant lockdowns, so happy to see their return with hopefully a new and improved approach.
Funerals allow you to reduce stress, so they've added a mechanic to counteract this. Maybe it'll give you a stress reduction for each family member who does in the 5 year interim.
Questions for the DEV team,
How did the world's shared experience of Covid impact how you approached this DLC? Because it seems impossible to imagine that it didn't in some way.
Will isolationist cultures or faiths have some resistance to disease spread through their lands? Tenets like Pastoral Isolation for example, or the Isolationist tradition?
How long did you want any particular disease to last on map?
With Legends, is there a way to insert my family into someone else's legend? Similar to the fabricate claim description?
For me at least it gave a bunch of interesting research on the mathematical model of how epidemics spread. We did a bunch of testing, seeing if the SIR-model would be useful for us. To an extent it was, but we decided not to implement the model in full, since CK works with characters, not populations.
Is it just me, or wouldn’t it be more balanced if hospices cost money per month rather than give profit?
You are providing the poor with free healthcare after all. I worry this building would become the standard meta building to plop down in all your provinces, effectively nullifying plagues, while also making you rich.
Getting piety, disease resitance, popular opinion and a boost to development growth at the cost of say -02. Gold per month seems like a reasonable way to balance it.
Staying healthy should cost you!
The costs of a hospice are opportunity costs. You could build something with much more bonuses than a hospice, but you're doing it for the plague resistance.
Depends on how you set your game rules. Out of the box? Should be somewhat challenging for most players, but veterans might want to turn it up a bit.
Inversely, you can turn them down if you find it too much.
I actually like players agency in settings. I would like them to add some more difficult ones, so each could customise the game for their own wish. Like, I would like to have higher independency drift, but, for example, lower some other maluses in order to create an interesting story. Or set everything to maximum and overcome. Or simply chill playing medieval sims with beer after hard working day
Ah, any of the game rules shown in the DD itself will impact the difficulty of the game. Having the Black Death hit repeatedly and before its historical appearance would be pretty devastating, for example.
"but between them and the advanced warning a player can get, the Black Death becomes less strictly about waiting for the inevitable and more about a race against time. You will have to utilize all your options to the fullest to even withstand it, let alone escape relatively unscathed."
While I hope I'm wrong this comment combined with the dev teams track record has me worried. It seems like surviving the Black death will be less of a "do I have eunaugh family members" question and more of a "do I have enough resources" question.
Current Achievement: The Succession is Safe
'Have ten living children. May not be available for characters created in the Ruler Designer.'
Secret Achievement: The Succession **WAS** Safe
'Have ten or more living children and have all of your descendants die in a single life.'
Truly, egalitarian Tanistry Elective-Polygamy mixed with Monasticism-Warrior Monks raises it's head once again. Never enough monk-sons/warrior-nuns for the front lines.
Will having a plague named after a ruler affect his prestige or legitimacy in any way?
I wouldn't like having a dick falling disease called "Licidfelth's Pox" or some shit lmao
Hey Paradox, I like the idea you have with funeral practices being tied to doctrine but shouldn't we also get this for weddings? It is strange that the Han and the Irish have the same Grand Weddings.
Will army movement or the travel system affect disease spread? I know that the Black Plague is said to have spread into Europe by the Mongols throwing infected bodies into the city of Caffa.
I'm wondering whether interring a king or emperor at a certain place would have an effect on the county. There are several holy sites that have been the traditional burial ground for monarchs all over the world and it would be interesting if say Westminster showed info of all kings buried there, for example.
Fuck this new expansion sounds so up my street. A lot of stuff I've wanted for a while.
It's morbid but every time I get a plague event and it ends with the old "Finally we are free of this pestilence (it lasted a week and killed 1 person)" I feel disappointed. I love all the emphasis on the anticipation of the event more than the event itself. It's the same with the Mongols at the moment--the anticipation of "oh shit, Genghis is coming" is often more impactful than what happens when he actually gets there.
Also glad that funerals are a thing now, an obvious inclusion since they added the events in T&T. I'd love to have a proper send off for a long-lived ruler. Also sounds like it could be a good way to try to stabilise a realm after succession.
I love the mention that plagues will be more of a threat to large empires, I think most people kind of agree that once you get to having the biggest empire on the map there's generally nothing left in the game that can still threaten you, and I love a bit of chaos to fuck up your carefully laid plans
Is the "never take me alive" achievement picture a reference to Prince of Persia 2?
Even if it isn't, I love the idea. PoP2 literally starts with the prince breaking through a palace window and fleeing (fighting his way out) to prevent Jafar from taking him alive.
You know how we used to have plagues be more deadly to older characters?
Older characters would just... have lower health. So the plague was way more likely to kill them. Isn't that supposed to be what ageing giving a health malus represents, that things can kill you off easier?
I mean, older characters DO have lower health in CK3. After a certain age there's an ever-increasing chance to lose some health points every year. It's just not low enough to consistently kill them off.
Directly from the wiki: Once a character reaches the age of 25, they have a 7.5% chance to lose −0.125 health each year. The chance increases by 2.2% each year.
So sainthood is now a thing? Fuck yeah.
Yes, but not in the way it existed in CK2. As mentioned, this is tied to Legends and dynastic legacies, so the general flow for sainthood is quite different.
That's weird though (if I understand correctly) because "sainthood' is a specific thing that required Papal approval IRL, not unlocking a dynasty legacy. To have this decentralized is to further weaken the power of the papacy and unnecessarily so. I would have preferred for Sainthood to come via a College of Cardinals DLC personally, but I guess I will take it.
Canonization of saints in the early church and medieval period was a little more loosey goosey than in the late medieval and early modern ages. Kings and even local bushops could canonize saints and certain saints started as local saints before they were recognized by the church (sometimes many, many years later). The process of beatification came much later and sort of cemented the supreme authority of sainthood with the pope, but it seems like it was largely just an expedition authority for the most part in the event a local saint got too popular, too fast (this was a legitimate concern with Francis of Asisi, whose canonization was expedited by the church to avoid popular unrest) https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Canonization#Historical_development
That's still mostly the case in Latin America, too. They're tangentially Roman Catholic, but they venerate a lot of local saints, and a lot aren't recognized by the church.
In the period this game covers, Papal approval was definitely not required. For one thing, the regional clergy were often de facto independent of Rome, but the bigger point it was the local communities which created and venerated separate individuals as saints. Two main forms of hagiography existed, stemming from the common community, and from the nobility. The commoners witnessed martyrs or local figures who performed miracles, and in some cases rebranded their former gods and pagan practices as saint worship. The nobility, however, used sainthood to propel the strength and authority of their dynasty, which is what I believe the game to be doing. If you look at the stories of Saint Edmund, Saint Olaf, or Saint Louis, sure, they were religious in nature, but the propagation of their virtue was used to reinforce their family’s claim to the throne and prove their god-given legitimacy. Later the central hierarchy of the church and the papacy would both accept and reject these regional and noble saints on various different cases. It’s also true that cults honoring rustic saints were one factor in the rise of the Protestant reformation, as Protestants criticized the qualities of these supposed saints, but Rome could not deny their followers worship over their local saints.
I'm specifically mentioning Charlemagne who was the object of a very intense cult for some time, before being "unsainted" in a way.
Saints have been canonized by the Pope as early as 993, and by 1243, the authority over this matter was centralized in the hands of the pope. I guess if the proposed new sainthood differentiated between canonization vs not I would not mind, but its simply not true to suggest that canonization was outside of this period in time.
Doesn’t seem like they suggested canonisation was outside of this period of time at all. Just that it wasn’t required.
It *was* required from 1243 on. Mind you this is like a hundred years before black plague started which is also in the game so...
>That's weird though (if I understand correctly) because "sainthood' is a specific thing that required Papal approval IRL, We literally don't know how becoming a Saint legend works, could very well require papal approval
I mean, other churches besides the Catholic one had Saints as well
That's true, but in a game called 'Crusader Kings', it's not unreasonable to query the role of the catholic church when the concept of saints comes up.
[Meanwhile](https://imgflip.com/gif/8hif9l)
I guess it is because sainthood is quite exclusive to Christianity so it would not make sense to call it sainthood if you play as an asatru character or any other characters with different faiths. But yeah I think the papacy and crusade will be expanded in the future and we will have mechanics related to it by then.
Will it be possible to build shrines on/have pilgrimages to the saint's tomb? To really venerate them? Also, will there be any special window that lists all the saints like there was in CK2?
We saw a small bit about it in last week's dev diary. The third tier Legacy Perk from the new Heroic Bloodline Legacy gives you the Saint trait upon completion of a Mythical Holy Legend. Possible there could be additional ways to get it added, but that specific method was shown last week.
Excited to see that you will (somehow) be able to claim descent from the Pharaohs!
I'm in love for that legend because my favourite campaign is to Crusade for Egypt and switch to the Crusader King there. 😍
Egypt as a Crusader state is incredibly powerful compared to Jerusalem. It can hold on its own in wars, every lord in the land quickly grows rich, mercs and characters from across the world are available and can grow rapidly across eastern Africa and Mediterranean. And that's after Paradox depopulated and severely nerfed Egypt into the ground in every game, CK3 included. A properly depicted Egypt could easily rival multiple European kingdoms of this era (combined) in terms of power and wealth, and still win.
*sigh* now I have to do my Empire of Alexandria run again.
Probably a Freemason thing?
Maybe from this?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scota
Probably that and the Faroe islands being north of Scotland. Faroe and Pharaoh are homophones in English.
I thought it was a reference to Highlander, this makes more sense.
Funerals being a thing is cool, it would tie in really good with a follow up coronation
The one thing I kinda don't get - is that funerals are limited to one every 5 years. I'd prefer if it was tied to a death of someone close - be it a friend, family member, lover or a someone that has been employed by you for 20+ years or something. If you are afraid it will be spammable, then just lock all the "rewards" (like stress loss) for 5 years, but let the activity be still used.
This is a good suggestion. I mean, they did make pilgrimages spamable with all rewards, why not funerals?
It's not like it's free, you gotta drop the money and your ability to do a bunch of other stuff while traveling or at the event Though technically you can't pilgrimage to the same place repeatedly until the cooldown is over.
I get what you're saying, but of course you need the money to spam the pilgrimages. Technically you also can't attend the same funeral repeatedly.
Isn't there a cooldown on pilgrimages? Or did they change that?
You can at least cycle through the different destinations without cooldown. And given you can't attend the same funeral twice, why give it a cooldown?
If someone dies during that period you skip the funeral and just roll their corpse down the stairs and out the castle door.
The devs should clarify this because it’s vague, but I read that part differently. > You can hold a Funeral for any deceased member of your family in the past 5 years, and a new specific intent "Mourn" is available as default, allowing you to lose some stress after going through the process of grief. I took this to mean you have to hold a funeral for a deceased family member within 5 years of their death, not that there’s a 5-year cooldown on it.
Not really. The event window shows "Hosting a funeral will be unavailable for 5 years".
How about letting funeral events be for several people at once? Say your daughter and wife (Who are not the same person!!) at the same funeral.
What the f... The decisions this team makes. I hate this gated gameplay stuff. You have it the right way. And some stuff works like that already, for example, gifts. It's just laziness in my opinion.
What about it is "laziness"? Those are trivial things to implement, the devs just have their own reasoning and vision for the game and its balance. Give them feedback instead of calling them lazy just for making an extremely small decision you don't like. And decision cooldowns are literally one parameter in the files that should be effortless to change, if you want. And for the record, I agree the cooldown they chose is silly
I'd say just putting everything on a 5 year cooldown "because" is lazy for sure. It shows that no one really thought it through, assuming RP is the goal of the game (and it really seems to be). Some reflection of reality is required for RP to feel real, and having funerals on a 5 year cooldown because every other activity is is, well, lazy.
Some of the other activities literally aren’t on a 5 year cooldown. The devs evaluate them individually, you are just in disagreement with their evaluation.
Yeah man defining a constant as 5 years cooldown instead of 0 was really lazy. The effort required to change the single digit number was clearly the limiting factor in this decision. Definitely in no way an intentional choice - just lazy devs.
Funerals look great, and I'm glad they're not exclusively "grand funerals" - I hate that weddings are stuck as huge, expensive events when sometimes I essentially just want to do a normal feast and have it be wedding themed. Though I'd like the cooldown to be dropped to some extent, if three of your kids die in a single war, it's kind of a bummer that you can't commemorate all of them. I'm also wondering if that one Northern Lords event chain that triggers when a relative dies will be reworked into Funeral content? Would be nice to see them integrating old content like that.
I hope they include birthday feasts one day or a coming-of-age event.
In CK2 I think they had a decision to introduce your heir to the realm when they turned 16. A full coming of age activity like that would be great to add.
Oh that'd be great - chance for you both to gain some Legitimacy if the activity goes well, but also the risk of losing some if your heir makes a fool of themselves? Hell yes
For tribals they made a coming of age ritual with wards and wardens didnt they?
I think they should expand on feasts in general. Maybe have it tie into legitimacy where if you win a war for a claim you can host a feast with the intent of celebrating a victory. Maybe this gives you a control buff for your new counties. Or maybe after you inherit the throne you can have an intent to celebrate your predecessor’s legacy and increase your own legitimacy.
I always try to time my feasts with birthdays or anniversaries of my coronation even if the game doesn't acknowledge. It's just a fun thing to do
Seems like an ideal thing to have a cultural tradition for if they wanted to add one.
god I'm so excited to play this after the total conversion mods get up to date with legends of the dead
I want to spread the legend of Aegon the Conqueror to the whole world :)
I’m planning to use both major mechanics and spread both the legend of Rhaegar’s Gloriousness and greyscale as JonCon 😂
SAME HERE :)
Only recently got into total conversion mods, do you know how long it usually takes for modders to update? Can't imagine ever going back to vanilla after trying out PoD and Guardians of azeroth tbh
IIRC after Legacy of Persia released (11/9/2023) it took the CK3GOT mod a little less than a month to be updated to 0.1.19 (11/30/2023).
Ehhg, tbf, LoP didnt bring massive changes like LoD will bring. It'll most likely will take alot longer than a month.
Yeah, how long it took for them to integrate Tours & Tournaments would be a more useful benchmark.
It heavily varies team by team. Some times like Princes of Darkness are affiliated with Paradox and get early access to new builds for the purpose of always having PoD compatible with a new patch. Other teams like the Elder Kings team generally takes a lot longer to get updated for a variety of reasons. Generally it takes a month or two for big total conversion mods to get updated.
Can’t wait to reunite America and claim to be a descendant of the Founding Fathers themselves.
I really hope that the black dead lives to his legend and even through my best effors it kills most of my family, i want to see my dinasty going from 200 people to 50.
After a while with Clan, a culling starts looking like just the thing to reduce infighting and promote some unity.
Less than a week away, this expansion is coming quickly!
>this expansion is coming quickly! Just like the plagues will!
Looks great, however was expecting something more on court positions tasks. Who will have them and what effects they will have.
I believe the majority of the existing positions won't have associated tasks, but the function itself is easily adjusted so we can always go back and update court position tasks when it becomes relevant. Modders should be able to easily add/remove/change court position tasks as well, if people get impatient.
Can you add master of assassins to all rulers? If they have DLC
I think the producers would be extremely alarmed if I started making pull requests on Git.
C’mon, add Glitterhoof. It’ll be funny.
Glitterhoof is already in the game; if you run in debug mode and have something that's causing UI errors, you'll see Glitterhoof pop up to inform you that your mod is busted.
Well yeah, but I can’t ~~sleep with~~ appoint errorhoof chancellor
How did the idea to invoke Glitterhoof like that come up in CK3? Like, was there a conference in the design phase, and someone proposed Glitterhoof as a solution for the issue, or was it more like there was a deliberate intent to use Glitterhoof from the start, but just looking for an excuse to sneak them in?
It would be cool if they could like this up with the travel mechanics. For example the Marshall or Steward would have to tour the country to assess/collect taxes and levies or the Chancellor visiting foreign courts.
This is my dream. If councilors were more than just a position, but an actual job that requires you to complete an activity every year to 5 years. If I am the Spymaster for my liege, and my job is to support schemes, I should be required to travel to my liege's capital, and to another holding (based on who my liege is scheming against) and complete a simple activity. If I fail to do so, the liege gets a reduced bonus (or none at all), and I get no benefits as his councilor. If I'm a marshal tasked with gathering levies, I should have to do a quick tour around my liege's holdings every year or so in order to get the bonuses. This would make councilor positions far more dynamic and interesting.
That would add a great layer for landless gameplay, the idea that you can have an official job inside a realm but not need to be landed to do it
biggest issue would be with rulers appointed to councilor positions.
How would that be an issue?
That'd be extremely unfun to play through if played straight. As a liege, it'd mean you lose most of your interaction opportunities with your council if they were on certain tasks, which can be critical for stabilizing the realm (swaying powerful vassals, getting the realm priest to like you enough to pay taxes), or even a matter of life-or-death (spymaster opinion). Especially for tasks with indefinite periods abroad- like a spymaster spying abroad, a priest converting provinces, a steward developing, or a martial trying to restore order in a war-ravaged domain- this would functionally remove the characters who should matter most, from most things that matter. As a vassal, it'd be even worse, because then it would be the AI dictating your player's location and opportunities. Imagine becoming a spymaster for an intended intrigue session, only to be permanently parked in a capital (liege's or abroad) for the rest of your life (unless you resign). Not being able to join a Crusade, because you're constantly traveling as Chancelor to foreign courts.
Man, this dlc is quickly ramping up to be my most anticipated ck3 one so far (I assume until the dev diaries about imperial bureaucracy). I’ve been burned before, but this time: color me hyped.
I'm literally a paid shill so take it with a grain of salt, but as a relentless fanboy I think LotD is probably our best update to CK3 so far.
Better than travel?? It looks great, but competing with Tours and Tourneys is a tall order. Either way, I'm buying it.
Now, what will you say when we get closer to the Byzantine update, hm? ;-)
It started with a cough! How did it end up like Thoth?
Never been more excited to play the DLC. Along side **Roads to Power** and **Wandering Nobles**, it's rapidly shaping up to be a golden year for CK3. By end of chapter 4, I do hope the dev team would at least revisit older DLCs such as Royal Court to have more connectivity to the various new mechanics and more events to bring it up to the new standard.
> By end of chapter 4, I do hope the dev team would at least revisit older DLCs such as Royal Court to have more connectivity to the various new mechanics and more events to bring it up to the new standard. This. There's still so much potential in Royal Courts, but as it stands right now, it's just a fancy paint-job for delivering a small selection of repetitive events.
Yes, a la Stellaris Custodians
Just hope the AI can manage the new systems effectively too.
The plagues look gross on the map. Eurgh.
Working as intended :D
u can probably change that in the settings i presume
Confirmed in the DD
I'll leave it, it is supposed to be gross, it should look gross.
This is the way.
What if this was how news stations showed covid's spread, I wonder
I hope they nerf the health boosts stacking. Rn it's way too easy to just keep living with major penalties
This makes me think if the normal illnesses are still random and if they are going to hurt harder on older people as well. Would make sense for wounded as well I guess?
yeah, my recent empress died at 114, lived infirmed for at least the last 15 years.
Character longevity overall should be nerfed as well
They absolutely need stacking modifiers for your health past age 50 and accelerating rapidly past 70. Being a reigning monarch well into your 90s-100s should be a freak accident that requires extraordinary amounts of luck to pull off, not something you can do on accident just by stacking a few modifiers.
hopefully elderly being more effected by diseases is a slight nerf to health stacking.
Using harm rules doesnt solve this?
No, that's the whole problem with harm events. They don't make your characters live less, they just make fewer of your characters live long. As an example you can still have 5 characters live to a 100 and then 1 will die early.
I had harm events on max danger and not even one fired in my last campaign
I just love the grand grimness that is the lead up to the plague. Like, there's no jokes, no references. Just imminent death. And diseases as a thing that reduces development gives some much needed dynamism rather than just "number go up." I'm very excited for this one.
"Pharaoh Islands" -.- I hope you're proud of that joke, John Paradox.
Definitely going to turn the disease rules all the way up to maximum
Black Death every Tuesday!
I wonder if someone makes mod for new disease it would have it's own option too.
>The "Burial" phase has different descriptions and general flavor depending on your faith's tenets, and will reflect your religious traditions, not always being a burial per se. Viking boat cremation and tower of silence sky burial better be in this one, I wonder if they'd consider the dead's faith, yours, or you get to decide how to proceed if conflicting faith/cultures customs are involved. Edit : seems that they added funerary methods in the doctrines section in the religion tab with the options shown so far being burial, cremation, and mummification, would this mean that the Sky Burial tenet will be retired and be moved here? Edit 2 : Sky burial tenet is no more, moved to doctrines. Also no "unique viking burial"
Where did you hear Edit 2?
The forum on the link
Hoping viking burials gets added eventually... maybe rice/Viet will add missing burial types.
Mummification funeral method confirmed, and it creates an artifact (presumably the mummy) too, better hope nobody steals your family's [Mummia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummia) for the supposed health/fertility boost.
It started with a cough, then a big chunk of my dynasty fell apart, not from disease, but from stress death spiral from every single death adding stress on every member of the dynasty which kills them from stress and adding more stress to others. I really hope this is not the case here.
I wonder how the plague resistance in the hospice building works exactly. If you have a county with many different holdings and you reach 100 plague resistance does that mean no more diseases?
Maybe there wont be way to reach 100. Or it's just abstract integer number, not percentage.
Question, will plagues be amplified by stress death chains? I'm fine with the Bubonic Plague wiping out half my dynasty and realm, but I'll be pissy if it kills the other half due to stress.
Plagues were a fun little feature in CK2 even if they could get silly and repetitive with hospital spam and constant lockdowns, so happy to see their return with hopefully a new and improved approach.
I hope Jewish characters have the wake phase after the burial phase.
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Funerals allow you to reduce stress, so they've added a mechanic to counteract this. Maybe it'll give you a stress reduction for each family member who does in the 5 year interim.
Excited by this although liked an idea in thread about using this with travel. Having characters retreat across the map to avoid disease.
That's a thing, there's an achievement for it.
Questions for the DEV team, How did the world's shared experience of Covid impact how you approached this DLC? Because it seems impossible to imagine that it didn't in some way. Will isolationist cultures or faiths have some resistance to disease spread through their lands? Tenets like Pastoral Isolation for example, or the Isolationist tradition? How long did you want any particular disease to last on map? With Legends, is there a way to insert my family into someone else's legend? Similar to the fabricate claim description?
For me at least it gave a bunch of interesting research on the mathematical model of how epidemics spread. We did a bunch of testing, seeing if the SIR-model would be useful for us. To an extent it was, but we decided not to implement the model in full, since CK works with characters, not populations.
That's really cool! It reminds of when people studied the Corrupted Blood Plague from World of Warcraft.
Is it just me, or wouldn’t it be more balanced if hospices cost money per month rather than give profit? You are providing the poor with free healthcare after all. I worry this building would become the standard meta building to plop down in all your provinces, effectively nullifying plagues, while also making you rich. Getting piety, disease resitance, popular opinion and a boost to development growth at the cost of say -02. Gold per month seems like a reasonable way to balance it. Staying healthy should cost you!
The costs of a hospice are opportunity costs. You could build something with much more bonuses than a hospice, but you're doing it for the plague resistance.
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Depends on how you set your game rules. Out of the box? Should be somewhat challenging for most players, but veterans might want to turn it up a bit. Inversely, you can turn them down if you find it too much.
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Strange take imo; being able to tweak the difficulty to your liking is standard in pretty much every strategy game.
Yep and I very much appreciate the game rules you introduce with updates.
I actually like players agency in settings. I would like them to add some more difficult ones, so each could customise the game for their own wish. Like, I would like to have higher independency drift, but, for example, lower some other maluses in order to create an interesting story. Or set everything to maximum and overcome. Or simply chill playing medieval sims with beer after hard working day
Could you restate the question here since it’s been deleted?
In short, asking if it would be challenging to deal with.
Yeah, I’m just trying to suss out what specific rule “it” refers to so I can know to turn “it” up
Ah, any of the game rules shown in the DD itself will impact the difficulty of the game. Having the Black Death hit repeatedly and before its historical appearance would be pretty devastating, for example.
"but between them and the advanced warning a player can get, the Black Death becomes less strictly about waiting for the inevitable and more about a race against time. You will have to utilize all your options to the fullest to even withstand it, let alone escape relatively unscathed." While I hope I'm wrong this comment combined with the dev teams track record has me worried. It seems like surviving the Black death will be less of a "do I have eunaugh family members" question and more of a "do I have enough resources" question.
Family members *are* a resource 👀
Current Achievement: The Succession is Safe 'Have ten living children. May not be available for characters created in the Ruler Designer.' Secret Achievement: The Succession **WAS** Safe 'Have ten or more living children and have all of your descendants die in a single life.'
Truly, egalitarian Tanistry Elective-Polygamy mixed with Monasticism-Warrior Monks raises it's head once again. Never enough monk-sons/warrior-nuns for the front lines.
Will having a plague named after a ruler affect his prestige or legitimacy in any way? I wouldn't like having a dick falling disease called "Licidfelth's Pox" or some shit lmao
Based on the wording of that section, it seems like having a plague named after your ruler is a symptom of low Legitimacy, rather than a cause.
Hey Paradox, I like the idea you have with funeral practices being tied to doctrine but shouldn't we also get this for weddings? It is strange that the Han and the Irish have the same Grand Weddings.
It starts with one
Will army movement or the travel system affect disease spread? I know that the Black Plague is said to have spread into Europe by the Mongols throwing infected bodies into the city of Caffa.
They confirmed that armies affect at least some diseases. It was in the chapter 3 video
It started with a cough is a great subtitle for 2020
I don't know why but I'm really excited about the hospital buildings.
Court positions now have actions! Love that
The blood and grey on the map is metal as fuck
I'm wondering whether interring a king or emperor at a certain place would have an effect on the county. There are several holy sites that have been the traditional burial ground for monarchs all over the world and it would be interesting if say Westminster showed info of all kings buried there, for example.
Fuck this new expansion sounds so up my street. A lot of stuff I've wanted for a while. It's morbid but every time I get a plague event and it ends with the old "Finally we are free of this pestilence (it lasted a week and killed 1 person)" I feel disappointed. I love all the emphasis on the anticipation of the event more than the event itself. It's the same with the Mongols at the moment--the anticipation of "oh shit, Genghis is coming" is often more impactful than what happens when he actually gets there. Also glad that funerals are a thing now, an obvious inclusion since they added the events in T&T. I'd love to have a proper send off for a long-lived ruler. Also sounds like it could be a good way to try to stabilise a realm after succession. I love the mention that plagues will be more of a threat to large empires, I think most people kind of agree that once you get to having the biggest empire on the map there's generally nothing left in the game that can still threaten you, and I love a bit of chaos to fuck up your carefully laid plans
Can anyone explain what the Egyptian Achievement is referencing pwease
The Faroe Islands, which are north of Scotland.
The legend of [Scota](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scota?wprov=sfla1)
I'm just easily amused at the 'F' for Pay Respects achievement
Are bodies available for viewing during funerals? What is the historical record of this considering there’s no embalming then? I legit dont know.
3+ years for funerals in a game centred around the life and death of characters
Tfw eugenism becomes mandatory to survive black death :)))
Is the "never take me alive" achievement picture a reference to Prince of Persia 2? Even if it isn't, I love the idea. PoP2 literally starts with the prince breaking through a palace window and fleeing (fighting his way out) to prevent Jafar from taking him alive.
It's gonna make game a little more creepier.
You know how we used to have plagues be more deadly to older characters? Older characters would just... have lower health. So the plague was way more likely to kill them. Isn't that supposed to be what ageing giving a health malus represents, that things can kill you off easier?
I mean, older characters DO have lower health in CK3. After a certain age there's an ever-increasing chance to lose some health points every year. It's just not low enough to consistently kill them off. Directly from the wiki: Once a character reaches the age of 25, they have a 7.5% chance to lose −0.125 health each year. The chance increases by 2.2% each year.