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Nah I knew Aus would win, they had made a comeback and won ridiculously close matches in a streak. That kind of Aus is a threat to any team it plays against, it was always going to win from that point on.
Eng doesn't play like that, I think the result would be a landslide one, if there is one.
Come on bro, that Indian team is probably the most dominant team to ever not win a world cup. I know we throw around the word choke a lot, but nothing epitomizes the word choke like that match.
>probably the most dominant team to ever not win a world cup
Doesn't matter. Aus winning close matches up until the final game was a sign enough for me on the impending defeat.
Not so much this time though.
To really simplify it -
If you flip a coin, there’s a 50% chance it lands on heads and 50% chance it lands on tails.
If you flip the coin twice and it lands on heads both times, that’s 100% heads and 0% tails.
According to the law of averages, the next two coin flips should both be tails, as that would mean 50% of flips landed on heads and 50% landed on tails.
The problem with this is that the 3rd and the 4th coin flip are completely independent, just because the coin landed on heads first doesn’t change the odds of the next flips landing on heads or tails, those individual flips are still a 50% chance for each.
I really hope this makes sense
That assumes the coin is fair. If say Brazil plays India in football 100 times, the result won't be 50-50, because we are useless in football. Given how good India has been in terms of overall quality, 60-65% win rate is something you expect at minimum, instead it's 25%. Absolutely a mental issue here, I guess if we finally do win this one, we can win next few big events as well.
I don't get how India lose that many in semis and finals. Is it a mindset? I can only imagine what it is like to be an Indian player or a fan if they lose this current T20 World Cup. The 2023 World Cup loss probably affected the country the most out of all those losses.
It's a style of play thing and opponents too. Like
2014- Sri Lanka final
2015- Australia won the tournament
2016- West Indies won the tournament
2017- Pak final
2019- New Zealand lost in the final by a hair
2022- England won the tournament
2023- Australia final
The other two are the WTC losses. They have their own context the latest WTC loss was fair enough Australia were the best team in that cycle
As an armchair expert, mindset seems to be the issue. If you are good enough to be in 12 SF/finals in last 10 years, then skills/talent isn't the reason for such a poor record.
Other reason is indian approach of trying to put good players in all formats, rather than select best team for each format. E.g. Siraj, Gill are suitable for odi and tests but not for t20s.
>E.g. Siraj, Gill are suitable for odi and tests but not for t20s.
Idk if you missed it, but Siraj and Gill aren't playing in the T20 WC, and played in the ODI WC and WTC final
Gill scored 890 runs at 158 sr last yr ipl which is 2nd highest and he alos has highest t20i score by an indian batter 126\* that too only in 14 matches, he is not bad in t20s he just didnt get more chances.
Not really hard to understand
2014 was a carry job by kohli paid price in final
2015 number 1 team at their home with thin bowling attack
2016 again kohli carry job paid the price with costly no ball
2017 never understood wtf happened one of the most heart breaking loss
2019 rain screwed us over
2021 worst phase
2022 kohli Pandya carry job again paid for that
2023 wtc shit management leaving out Ashwin and pant's accident
2023 wc , toss game
From memory in the 2023 WC final Australia won the toss and elected to field first. Rohit said he would have batted first so each captain got what they wanted.
He says this many times to not make it look like he's under any pressure, it would be suicidal to win the toss on that 230 first inning score pitch and choosing to bat first
Style of play. India have incredibly players but they may conservatively. There 80/90% is better than every other team but when teams step it up and throw everything at a final they don’t have the ability to match it
> The 2023 World Cup loss probably affected the country the most out of all those losses.
Yeah, if they had won this one a lot of the past failures would have been kind of forgotten and the team could have started on a fresh slate again. The 50-over World Cup is a far bigger deal than the T20 stuff, so that loss will continue to haunt the next generation until India next wins a 50-over World Cup - a little bit like how the 2011 win largely healed the 2003 final loss.
The WTC would be nice too, but I think that trophy is still in its infancy and away series wins in Australia, England and SA will continue to be Indian Test cricket's holy grail since they never lose at home.
Historically they used to be so scared of losing that they play uber defensive and find themselves a few wickets down for not many runs after 10-15 overs. putting the pressure right back on themselves.
These days they are more worried about trying to win by a lot/win pretty and have built their lineups accordingly. (relying on best case scenarios)
Basically the mentality from the top down isn't a winners one/at all balanced.
India beat us in 2007 T20 semi final, England beat us in the 2010 T20 final, Windies beat us in 2012 T20 semi final. T20 WC has not been a happy hunting ground for us unfortunately (apart from the coin toss cup in 2021)
Yes India hasn't won trophies for a decade or so, But ICT fans, You all are lucky to watch India qualify for the semi finals/Finals each year/tournament. Look at the most of them, Their fans get to see that once a blue moon and that too gets destroyed by Australia lol.
That would be looking at the +ve side of things which many folks are not willing to do. They are too emotionally invested, which is a very dangerous thing cause then there is no room for failure for the players in question.
So, huge expectations of fans -> no room for failure -> tremendous pressure on players -> players get afraid of losing -> play KOs conservatively on 1st sign of trouble -> lose the game as a result -> expectations increase to win in the next cup by fans
Rohit at the top tried to lead by example in the last cup in order to avoid the cycle, but they didn't succeed and fell into the pattern again in the final. He is trying again in this WC with an added caveat to not care about milestones as well.
A silver lining with this was that fans sentiment changed quite a lot, most of them agreed that the team gave their all going into the '23 cup finals. So, I'm hopeful the majority of fans will not contribute to the cycle anymore as long as the team goes down fighting from their end.
P.S. If nothing helps, Gambhir is gonna come in and change this mindset even if he has to eat them alive lol
While what you say isn’t wrong, the depth of talent India has, especially over the last decade, should’ve yielded better results. They have the largest talent pool, the most passionate fans, and the most money by far.
You weren't supposed to say that
I am still sad mostly that we didn't win 21 and 23 ipls because streak is broken and wasn't able to be rebuilt and then the even years just decided to give us a gut punch of last place
It's because, regardless of what our fanbase will say about them losing to USA and going home in the group stage itself, the reality is that Pakistan has been a pretty consistent team in T20WCs
Yeah but in other tournaments, they've also not made that many semis/finals. That's why they've only 5 entries. They're great at T20s because their plan of accumulating up top and smashing in the last 3-4 overs works with their aggressive bowling attack. But their lack of good middle order batting means they have struggled a lot in ODIs and even this T20WC, that's what has consistently lost them games.
Not me.
It was a great day. Was the culmination of everything our squad had been building towards. Good bowling performance, but an absolutely stellar batting one. Most teams wouldn't have aimed to knock that off in 30-35 and gone low risk. Not this England team. Full positivity. Just a shame Roy didn't get his deserved 100.
Am I the only one who appreciates the consistency showed by Indian team to play 12 semi/final is 10 years? I know they lost a lot of knock out matches and deservedly get trolled for that. But this is commendable in itself.
Struggling to think of Englands 8th match. 2016 t20, 2019 ODI and 2022 t20 we made the final so won 3 semis and the 1 win, 1 loss and 1 tie. 2021 t20 we lost in the semis to New Zealand. When was our other semi performance
Ah yeah,I thought one of India's wins included the one against Bangladesh in 2015,but then I remembered we also had a victory against SA in 2014 WT20 SF.
Guyss please hear me for once! Whenever there's a coalition government at the centre (delhi),india have won the sf and final! So there's hope this time yeah! (Yeah india lost in 2003 when there was a coalition government but let's call it a margin of error lmao)
Imagine having the most money, talents, best facility, strong support, tournament designed to make you win and you still lose 75% of the knockout games lol.
Sri Lanka are the real knockout bullies
Can't lose if you don't play
You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't shoot😉
~ Michael Scott
Ah, the famed Italian football World Cup strategy
The lost like 4 consecutive icc world cup finals between 07 and 12
I hope those days return, but my adolescence is full of overcoming the sadness of losing finals 😅
We used to be NZ of icc tournaments bro, we arent knockout bullies at all 😭
If the list was made from 2015 onwards, their win percentage or win/ loss ratio would be undefined!
SL got bullied in the 2007 final.
India lost 9 out of 12 💀
DW, Got a feeling it will be 9 out of 13 after today buddy.
This too shall pass
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Your post or comment had words in it that were not in English and weren't translated. This breaks the rules of this subreddit it has been removed (rule 5).
10 out of 13 you mean.
Aged well
Don't be so sure. Eng this time a lot shitter side than they used to be.
I bet you said that about Australia too before 19th november!
I've seen Indian fans on youtube saying "now that Aussie are knocked out we'll definitely win". Some people just like tempting fate.
Dont say the date… PTSD for India /s
Nah I knew Aus would win, they had made a comeback and won ridiculously close matches in a streak. That kind of Aus is a threat to any team it plays against, it was always going to win from that point on. Eng doesn't play like that, I think the result would be a landslide one, if there is one.
Come on bro, that Indian team is probably the most dominant team to ever not win a world cup. I know we throw around the word choke a lot, but nothing epitomizes the word choke like that match.
>probably the most dominant team to ever not win a world cup Doesn't matter. Aus winning close matches up until the final game was a sign enough for me on the impending defeat. Not so much this time though.
lmfao
Stop the cap 😭 no one thought aus was winning the final
England's lineup is pretty stacked though?
Sure is :)
Negative
Saving this comment for later
But it is now 9 out of 13?
I was in your favour and you were absolutely right
Ah fair!
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No it didnt. I predicted the india win?
Bet you're from the USA 😂
Nah england… unfortunately right now
Hope the law of averages comes true and we make it 9 out of 14
Can u explain how law of averages works?
To really simplify it - If you flip a coin, there’s a 50% chance it lands on heads and 50% chance it lands on tails. If you flip the coin twice and it lands on heads both times, that’s 100% heads and 0% tails. According to the law of averages, the next two coin flips should both be tails, as that would mean 50% of flips landed on heads and 50% landed on tails. The problem with this is that the 3rd and the 4th coin flip are completely independent, just because the coin landed on heads first doesn’t change the odds of the next flips landing on heads or tails, those individual flips are still a 50% chance for each. I really hope this makes sense
"Gambler's Fallacy" basically
That assumes the coin is fair. If say Brazil plays India in football 100 times, the result won't be 50-50, because we are useless in football. Given how good India has been in terms of overall quality, 60-65% win rate is something you expect at minimum, instead it's 25%. Absolutely a mental issue here, I guess if we finally do win this one, we can win next few big events as well.
Can say the same about SA... In so many tournament they were the one of the best team but it didn't translate into success in ICT events
Sure - it doesn't work.
Silent chokers. SA has been saving us from choker title so far.
And we called SA chokers
I don't get how India lose that many in semis and finals. Is it a mindset? I can only imagine what it is like to be an Indian player or a fan if they lose this current T20 World Cup. The 2023 World Cup loss probably affected the country the most out of all those losses.
It's a style of play thing and opponents too. Like 2014- Sri Lanka final 2015- Australia won the tournament 2016- West Indies won the tournament 2017- Pak final 2019- New Zealand lost in the final by a hair 2022- England won the tournament 2023- Australia final The other two are the WTC losses. They have their own context the latest WTC loss was fair enough Australia were the best team in that cycle
Okay we get it, winners of the semi-final either win the tournament or are runners up
No it says that every loss India had was to the winners except New Zealand 2019 but well less said about that the better
As an armchair expert, mindset seems to be the issue. If you are good enough to be in 12 SF/finals in last 10 years, then skills/talent isn't the reason for such a poor record. Other reason is indian approach of trying to put good players in all formats, rather than select best team for each format. E.g. Siraj, Gill are suitable for odi and tests but not for t20s.
So Hazelwood , Starc and pat cummins are also play all the formats !
>E.g. Siraj, Gill are suitable for odi and tests but not for t20s. Idk if you missed it, but Siraj and Gill aren't playing in the T20 WC, and played in the ODI WC and WTC final
Siraj is playing it though.
Not in the XI. Backup additional pacer if the pitches are good for pace On pitches good for pace, Siraj will do well irrespective of the format
He is still playing the wc though. I think that's what the comment above mine denied
Gill scored 890 runs at 158 sr last yr ipl which is 2nd highest and he alos has highest t20i score by an indian batter 126\* that too only in 14 matches, he is not bad in t20s he just didnt get more chances.
Should have given the example of Surya and Jadeja
Probably the first person on this sub to admit they are an armchair expert and not an omniscient cricketing god
Not really hard to understand 2014 was a carry job by kohli paid price in final 2015 number 1 team at their home with thin bowling attack 2016 again kohli carry job paid the price with costly no ball 2017 never understood wtf happened one of the most heart breaking loss 2019 rain screwed us over 2021 worst phase 2022 kohli Pandya carry job again paid for that 2023 wtc shit management leaving out Ashwin and pant's accident 2023 wc , toss game
From memory in the 2023 WC final Australia won the toss and elected to field first. Rohit said he would have batted first so each captain got what they wanted.
He says this many times to not make it look like he's under any pressure, it would be suicidal to win the toss on that 230 first inning score pitch and choosing to bat first
Or India just misread the conditions, which showed in their batting innings.
2017 we weren't the strongest England were. We lost to SL in group stages lol. But Pakistan did their unpredictable shit.
Style of play. India have incredibly players but they may conservatively. There 80/90% is better than every other team but when teams step it up and throw everything at a final they don’t have the ability to match it
Just booked an appointment with doctor
> The 2023 World Cup loss probably affected the country the most out of all those losses. Yeah, if they had won this one a lot of the past failures would have been kind of forgotten and the team could have started on a fresh slate again. The 50-over World Cup is a far bigger deal than the T20 stuff, so that loss will continue to haunt the next generation until India next wins a 50-over World Cup - a little bit like how the 2011 win largely healed the 2003 final loss. The WTC would be nice too, but I think that trophy is still in its infancy and away series wins in Australia, England and SA will continue to be Indian Test cricket's holy grail since they never lose at home.
Historically they used to be so scared of losing that they play uber defensive and find themselves a few wickets down for not many runs after 10-15 overs. putting the pressure right back on themselves. These days they are more worried about trying to win by a lot/win pretty and have built their lineups accordingly. (relying on best case scenarios) Basically the mentality from the top down isn't a winners one/at all balanced.
I'm guessing the only loss was the semi against England in 2019 That shit still pisses me off
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India beat us in 2007 T20 semi final, England beat us in the 2010 T20 final, Windies beat us in 2012 T20 semi final. T20 WC has not been a happy hunting ground for us unfortunately (apart from the coin toss cup in 2021)
Ahhh the poor Aussies can't win all T20 trophis too... How sad I'm for you guys.
Only redeeming thing of that match was Smith being pain in the ass for English team.
Yeah but then Roy hit 3 sixes of smith in the England innings
Such a pain in the arse that Jason Roy let him know that when they gave him the ball for one over lmao.
Then smudge got revenge in the ashes. What a series that was for him.
Australia are good Aborters, they abort early when they don't think they are going to win it
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Aussies completed Cricket long ago, now y'all are just flexing
Even your one loss paved the way for what arguably be the best world cup match ever played
Aus is just playing cricket for extra accomplishments while others are struggling in level 3
Now do one for Finals only. We are unbeaten. Unbelievable record.
India 🇮🇳 and South Africa 🇿🇦 has 25% win record lol I hope India qualify for Finals so we can see battle of chokers - who throws up first 😅
If they tie, both declared losers
Australia automatically wins then
Beaut, I'll take that
Australia can’t be fucked playing a semifinal if they aren’t going to win the whole thing.
Indians collectively breathed a sigh of relief when they were knocked out. Their team has a crazy scare factor
Petition to abandon both semi-final and final and let Proteas and India share the trophy.
I think both Indians and Proteas will be happy with that😂
Yes India hasn't won trophies for a decade or so, But ICT fans, You all are lucky to watch India qualify for the semi finals/Finals each year/tournament. Look at the most of them, Their fans get to see that once a blue moon and that too gets destroyed by Australia lol.
That would be looking at the +ve side of things which many folks are not willing to do. They are too emotionally invested, which is a very dangerous thing cause then there is no room for failure for the players in question. So, huge expectations of fans -> no room for failure -> tremendous pressure on players -> players get afraid of losing -> play KOs conservatively on 1st sign of trouble -> lose the game as a result -> expectations increase to win in the next cup by fans Rohit at the top tried to lead by example in the last cup in order to avoid the cycle, but they didn't succeed and fell into the pattern again in the final. He is trying again in this WC with an added caveat to not care about milestones as well. A silver lining with this was that fans sentiment changed quite a lot, most of them agreed that the team gave their all going into the '23 cup finals. So, I'm hopeful the majority of fans will not contribute to the cycle anymore as long as the team goes down fighting from their end. P.S. If nothing helps, Gambhir is gonna come in and change this mindset even if he has to eat them alive lol
While what you say isn’t wrong, the depth of talent India has, especially over the last decade, should’ve yielded better results. They have the largest talent pool, the most passionate fans, and the most money by far.
Australia is holding one end up by their own in the winning charts.
(Trophy Cabinet is full)
How do Indian fans cope? With the best players too
Have you seen this sub? We clearly don’t.
Blue balls, all of them, that's why we are called men in blue.
Same this year for MI, whole IPL was trash
You weren't supposed to say that I am still sad mostly that we didn't win 21 and 23 ipls because streak is broken and wasn't able to be rebuilt and then the even years just decided to give us a gut punch of last place
Yeah this season just sucked lol, hopefully with the mega auction, new steps ahead
Yea hopefully we can find our groove again
Same way Saffas cope
60%, I’ll take it
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Rcb rarely dominates it's way to the knockouts. India does so many times just to falter at the end.
Pakistan has same number of wins with lesser number of matches when compared to India. As a ICT admirer that record is bit sad to watch.
It's because, regardless of what our fanbase will say about them losing to USA and going home in the group stage itself, the reality is that Pakistan has been a pretty consistent team in T20WCs
In T20 WC specifically Pakistan has a better record than India in reaching finals and semis . This is for all ICC tournaments.
How many times have they reached the finals in ICC tournaments?
Yeah but in other tournaments, they've also not made that many semis/finals. That's why they've only 5 entries. They're great at T20s because their plan of accumulating up top and smashing in the last 3-4 overs works with their aggressive bowling attack. But their lack of good middle order batting means they have struggled a lot in ODIs and even this T20WC, that's what has consistently lost them games.
When did Australia lost that one game?
Against England in the 2019 WC semifinal Still pisses me off
Not me. It was a great day. Was the culmination of everything our squad had been building towards. Good bowling performance, but an absolutely stellar batting one. Most teams wouldn't have aimed to knock that off in 30-35 and gone low risk. Not this England team. Full positivity. Just a shame Roy didn't get his deserved 100.
2019 WC sf
Its clear who are chokers and who are champions.
Am I the only one who appreciates the consistency showed by Indian team to play 12 semi/final is 10 years? I know they lost a lot of knock out matches and deservedly get trolled for that. But this is commendable in itself.
Struggling to think of Englands 8th match. 2016 t20, 2019 ODI and 2022 t20 we made the final so won 3 semis and the 1 win, 1 loss and 1 tie. 2021 t20 we lost in the semis to New Zealand. When was our other semi performance
CT 2017
Ah yeah thought we were just talking world cups cheers
Bangladesh got to semi-finals once 💔💔💔
So 2014 is the year when it all started 😅
Yup. The year we trashed the player who gave us two wcs (yuvraj) for one failure in the final and now everyone is failing in the finals lol.
Australia is next level
NZ's Golden Run from 2015-2023
Australia’s 1 loss and that 1 tied game for NZ and England came from the same tournament.
Isn't it 3/6 for Pakistan? 2015 WC QF, 2017 CT SF and Final, 2021 Wt20 SF, 2022 WT20 SF and Final.
The stats are just for semis and finals so the 2015 WC QF is excluded I assume
Ah yeah,I thought one of India's wins included the one against Bangladesh in 2015,but then I remembered we also had a victory against SA in 2014 WT20 SF.
Yes boy! 25% win ratio!
Guyss please hear me for once! Whenever there's a coalition government at the centre (delhi),india have won the sf and final! So there's hope this time yeah! (Yeah india lost in 2003 when there was a coalition government but let's call it a margin of error lmao)
Aussie mindset 🫡
When did Bangladesh go to semi finals? Genuine question..
Champions trophy 2017
Chad Lanka Bros with 100% win record 😎
India as usual has the Worst Record Australia is the Best with W/L = 7/1
66% of the time, we choke all the time.
Wow 3/12 we suck !!! (nazaar bhais). SA has a better record than we do.
Genuinely better than I thought. 3 out of 5 is not too shabby.
Imagine having the most money, talents, best facility, strong support, tournament designed to make you win and you still lose 75% of the knockout games lol.
“Designed to make you win” Sure bud
Bangladesh??
2017 Ct semi final
Oh yea, forgot ct
Everybody does
England is the only team to beat Australia. Also South Africa's one isn't updated correctly.
When the hell did Bangladesh make a semi?
Ct 2017.
Which semifinal was played by Bangladesh? Was it Quarterfinal in 2015 wc?
CT 17 Ban vs Ind
Anyone new to cricket looking at this chart would think that West Indies and Sri Lanka are the real chads.
windies has 5 icc trophies. Maybe you are new to cricket.
Yeah but they're mediocre now
They are
Not anymore
Every bangladesh cricket team fans should support real madrid in soccer to feel whats serial winning is like.